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#5121 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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Ok Clinger,
Do electrical discharges occur in plasmas and flares? Yes or no? |
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#5122 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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What is most amazing to me personally is that not a single one of you has yet accepted that Origin the big fat zero is NOT a source, not a sink, not the beginning, and not the ending of ANY magnetic B line. Not one of you touched equation 17 of that Source/Sink paper where Priest *CHEATS* and turns electrons into "magnetic charges", CONFIRMING that no B field lines begin or end. The KINETIC ENERGY from those electrons in equation 16 has an ELECTRIC source and sink, namely the E field, not ORIGIN the big fat magnetic NULL.
The only thing that MIGHT happen at Origin the NULL is *INDUCTION*, not B field line "reconnection". |
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#5123 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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I realize that you still don't "get it", but the *ELECTRONS* are the things that "go fast enough". They bring kinetic energy THROUGH the X in the Z axis. Priest "mathematically translates" that POWERFUL CURRENT into "magnetic charges" in equation 17 of the source/sink paper. The CURRENT is the 'fast' thing that brings energy into and through the NULL point. The Null from the standpoint of magnetic energy is a complete dud. It literally doesn't do anything in terms of kinetic energy. Whatever kinetic energy transfer occurs, occurs as a result of "current reconnection". That's why your vacuum contraption was a total dud in terms of kinetic energy release. Origin is a dud. He's a wimp. He's a vacuum god that isn't ANYTHING. It's not a source. It's not a sink. It's literally *NOTHING* without plasma and current.
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#5124 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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I'm curious to know if it was RC or tusenfem who modified or twisted someone's arm into modifying the WIKI page on magnetic lines? That was CLASSIC! I've seen weird and pretty bizarre hater behaviors in my time, but WOW! I've never seen a "fundy" change a WIKI page in the hope of winning a debate before. That was a new low.
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#5125 |
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Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Graz, Austria
Posts: 1,111
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__________________
20 minutes into the future This message is bra-bra-brought to you by z-z-z-zik zak And-And-And I'm going to be back with you - on Network 23 after these real-real-real-really exciting messages (Max Headroom) |
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#5126 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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#5127 |
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Scourge, of the supernatural
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 7,515
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__________________
"Not a seat but a springboard” (1942 Winston Churchill) "As he who, seeking asses, found a kingdom" (1671 Milton "Paradise Regained") "for it seem'd A void was made in nature, all her bonds Crack'd; and I saw the flaring atom-streams And torrents of her myriad universe, Ruining along the illimitable inane, Fly on to clash together again, and make Another and another frame of things For ever." (1868 Tennyson "Lucretius") |
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#5128 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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With or without plasma?
Let's do a little give and take? How about addressing equations 16 and 17 in Priest's source/sink paper and tell me how that is NOT an example of "current reconnection"? Is the E field the source and sink of electron kinetic energy into X? |
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#5129 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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I *REALLY* cannot understand how you can *ALL* let Clinger slide on his little bait and switch routine. I mean, how blatant can it get? First he *INSISTS* that he can demonstrate Dungey's brand of "reconnection" *WITHOUT* plasma:
Quote:
It's almost comical if it weren't so sad.
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#5130 |
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Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Not Bandiagara
Posts: 7,167
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#5131 |
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Graduate Poster
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Graz, Austria
Posts: 1,111
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So now electric fields cannot exist without a plasma?
Just like a neutral plasma cannot carry a current, one of those other endless discussions. The X point with zero magnetic field strength where two field lines cross can indeed be assumed to be the end and the beginning of a field line and note that that comes together begin and end, so that in the end there is continuity. But maybe, just maybe, the whole world is wrong, and MM has been captured by the ghost of Alfvén and is the only one correct, who knows? But better not give most of your money to investors, Michael, you know what happend to Alfvén. |
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__________________
20 minutes into the future This message is bra-bra-brought to you by z-z-z-zik zak And-And-And I'm going to be back with you - on Network 23 after these real-real-real-really exciting messages (Max Headroom) |
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#5132 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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False. It is a PHYSICAL PROCESS, *INSIDE PLASMA* which induces an E field resulting in an "electrical discharge" in plasma. Deal with it.
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Quote:
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#5133 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 10,775
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Wow what an easy question
![]() Only an idiot would think that equations 16 and 17 in Priest's source/sink paper were an example of "current reconnection" because
Or do you want to read the paper again and either
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__________________
Real Science: NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) "Our Undiscovered Universe" by Terence Witt: Review 1; Review 2 |
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#5134 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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No, I already pulled that splinter out of my eye thank you.
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#5135 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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I'm ignoring them because any idiot can see that the "magic conversion" of current and charged particle kinetic energy into "magnetic charge" in Preist's paper occurs between equations 16 and 17. The equations before and after the "current/monopole switcheroo" process in 16 and 17 are irrelevant.
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#5136 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 10,775
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I'm curious to know what kind of fantasy lead you to think that it was anyone on this forum that modified or twisted someone's arm into modifying the WIKI page on magnetic lines?
The page was changed by TStein who has been maintaining the page since 2008. You have no evidence that this TStein is a member of this forum or even knows that this thread exists. The fact is that he removed an incorrectly phrased section from the page. Gauss's law for magnetism states that there are no sources or sinks of magnetic field. What this means is that there are no points in a magnetic field where all of the field lines begin or all of the field lines end. Contrast this to the electrical field where all of the field lines begin or end at a source or sink. The definition of a field line means that there are none where the vector field is zero: MM: The definition of magnetic field lines = no lines at a neutral point Gauss's law for magnetism then tells us that for every field line that ends at the neutral point, there is another that starts at the neutral point. W.D. Clinger's posts make it clear that the field lines at a X-shaped neutral point do balance out and so do not violate Gauss's law for magnetism. |
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__________________
Real Science: NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) "Our Undiscovered Universe" by Terence Witt: Review 1; Review 2 |
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#5137 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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Hmm. I wonder if this WIKI page will be the next one to be modified?
![]() http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_line
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#5138 |
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Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Not Bandiagara
Posts: 7,167
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The dishonest attempt to redefine perfectly good physics terminology is noted. The electric Sun conjecture will not be wished into reality by trying to change the meanings of words.
Quote:
The continued irrelevant personal attacks are noted. That sort of juvenile and uncivil response clearly fails as a substitute for objective quantitative support for an electric Sun conjecture. |
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#5139 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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![]() That was an irony overload from the guy who keeps trying to deny the fact that Dungey's electrical discharges occur in plasmas and flares, yet you hold him up as a mainstream hero. That denial-go-round is a riot! It's really entertaining watching the haters bend logic like a pretzel.
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#5140 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 10,775
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There is nothing magic about equations 16 and 17. They are the application of Gauss's law:
The properties of sources and sinks of a linear force-free field
Quote:
Michael Mozina thinks that the paper's monopoles are physical monopoles. He ignores that abstract and section 3.3 "Is a single magnetic charge possible in a linear force-free field" to which they answer no. The magnetic charges in the paper are a computational aid. They take an equation and expand it in poles in section 2 "Multipole expansion of a linear force-free field" and the conclusion:
Quote:
For another example see the spherical harmonic expansion of the CMB which has a monopole compoonent! Michael Mozina thinks that a fantasy called "current reconnection" is described by equation 16. It is obvious that he cannot read since equations 16 is a single current directed along the z-axis. This current does not join, connect or reconnect to any other current because there is no other current in the equations !Nowhere in the paper is there anything that looks like the "current reconnection" fantasy. Michael Mozina thinks that electron kinetic energy is in the paper somewhere. It is not. Michael Mozina thinks that X points are in the paper. They are not - they are in other papers referenced in the conclusion. |
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__________________
Real Science: NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) "Our Undiscovered Universe" by Terence Witt: Review 1; Review 2 |
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#5141 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 10,775
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Hmm. I wonder if this WIKI page will ever be understood by you?
I guess not since you still have no idea what the definition of a field line is: MM: The definition of magnetic field lines = no lines at a neutral point Gibberish. We all know that you are deluded about the paper: Michael Mozina's delusions about the Demoulin & Priest 1992 paper! You cannot even tell the difference between a multipole expansion of an equation the results in l=0 (monopole) solutions, l=1 (dipole) solutions, l=2 (quadrapole) solutions, etc. and actual physical monopoles/dipoles/quadrapoles/etc. You cannot even understand that the paper rules out actual physical monopoles. |
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__________________
Real Science: NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) "Our Undiscovered Universe" by Terence Witt: Review 1; Review 2 |
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#5142 |
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Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Not Bandiagara
Posts: 7,167
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#5143 |
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Master Poster
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,439
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I answered that question 11 days ago, on 9 November:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...25#post7745625 It's annoying to answer the same questions over and over. To make it easier to find previous answers to your questions, and because it's an entertaining chronicle of the Dunning-Kruger effect, I have gathered some of your recent questions and commentary onto a single web page: http://www.cesura17.net/~will/Epheme...R/mozina0.html |
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#5144 |
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Scourge, of the supernatural
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 7,515
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If this is intended as a redress to this question…
…then by all means, please, provide answers for both sets of conditions if you think it makes a difference and why you think it makes a difference. If you don’t think it makes a difference then it wouldn’t matter would it? Just a hint to help you the null point is still, well, null (if it wasn’t it wouldn’t be a null point). Quite frankly I just don’t know what you mean by "current reconnection" and have not read that paper. Which would probably explain why I have not been discussing that paper or your “current reconnection". |
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__________________
"Not a seat but a springboard” (1942 Winston Churchill) "As he who, seeking asses, found a kingdom" (1671 Milton "Paradise Regained") "for it seem'd A void was made in nature, all her bonds Crack'd; and I saw the flaring atom-streams And torrents of her myriad universe, Ruining along the illimitable inane, Fly on to clash together again, and make Another and another frame of things For ever." (1868 Tennyson "Lucretius") |
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#5145 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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#5146 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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#5147 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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I've already explained countless times that there is NOTHING in that NULL *until* you add "current" through the Z axis. That's the whole point that you all seem to want to waltz around. The CURRENT does the physical "reconnecting". Without the plasma it's just a NULL zone, NOTHING more.
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#5148 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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Quote:
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#5149 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 10,775
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You have already displayed countless times your ignorance about W.D. Clinger's posts.
There is NOTHING in that NULL point - including field lines: MM: The definition of magnetic field lines = no lines at a neutral point. Magnetic reconnection in a vacuum happens without any current along the z-axis despite Michael Mozina's delusions about Somov's 'Reconnection in a Vacuum' section . Then there is the idiocy of putting current in quotes !
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__________________
Real Science: NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) "Our Undiscovered Universe" by Terence Witt: Review 1; Review 2 |
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#5150 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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IMO it totally and utterly stinks to high heaven that I went to all the trouble to read Priests paper on sources and sinks, point out the EXACT EQUATIONS where he turns *CURRENT* into 'magnetic charge' and none of you care one iota.
B field lines have no sources and no sinks. A NULL is just a NULL. A NULL with A CURRENT running down the Z axis is "current reconnection". |
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#5151 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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#5152 |
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Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Not Bandiagara
Posts: 7,167
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The problem seems to be the erroneous insistence that magnetic reconnection is an electrical discharge. It's not. It has nothing to do with an electrical discharge. It's about magnetic reconnection. What W.D.Clinger said remains true... |
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#5153 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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#5154 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 10,775
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FYI, this specific post is a bald faced lie, a display of ignorance and delusion no matter how you cut it.
Your fantasy that MR requires actual monopoles is not evidence. |
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__________________
Real Science: NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) "Our Undiscovered Universe" by Terence Witt: Review 1; Review 2 |
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#5155 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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#5156 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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#5157 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 10,775
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That is an inane rant.
I have demonstrated *COUNTLESS TIMES* your ignorance and delustions, e.g.
Physics cranks like EU cranks are a dime a dozen on the Internet. But there are even more "crankier" and ignorant people on the Internet. For example there is one person who cannot even tell that one number (the temperature of the Sun) is higher than another number (the melting point of iron ) and has an entire web site recording this ignorance for the world to read. There is another who thinks that he can assign any units of measurement to equations that he likes (he makes the Lorentz factor into an acceleration!). There are probably more. |
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__________________
Real Science: NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) "Our Undiscovered Universe" by Terence Witt: Review 1; Review 2 |
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#5158 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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#5159 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 10,775
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Gibberish. Try again.
It is not anyone's fantasy that MR in a vacuum is a real physical process. It is a scientific fact documented in MR textbooks: From Michael Mozina's delusions about Somov's 'Reconnection in a Vacuum' section
Quote:
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__________________
Real Science: NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) "Our Undiscovered Universe" by Terence Witt: Review 1; Review 2 |
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#5160 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,362
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