From Cracked: 5 ridiculous things you probably believe about Islam

NWO Sentryman · 20th December 2010, 11:28 AM

http://www.cracked.com/article_18911...out-islam.html

Now before we have any flame wars, remember that cracked is near 100% accurate

Agatha · 20th December 2010, 12:22 PM

Good article. It ought to be required reading for a couple of people around here.

Sledge · 20th December 2010, 12:51 PM

I really don't understand that article. It's not funny and it's only going to challenge your preconceptions if you're an ignorant fool. Really don't see why it's on a humour site.

Aepervius · 20th December 2010, 12:54 PM

The article featured below on "10 things atheist and christian can agree" is OTOH very very poorly thought out. Especially read the part on morality, and cry.

Achán hiNidráne · 20th December 2010, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Aepervius

The article featured below on "10 things atheist and christian can agree" is OTOH very very poorly thought out. Especially read the part on morality, and cry.

Yeah, we were subjected to Wong's false equivocation in the past.

As for the article itself, it was pretty good, but like Sledge I wonder why it was in Cracked.

Monketey Ghost · 20th December 2010, 01:04 PM

The funny has fallen off in recent months, and I read the site less.

Not to turn this into a referendum on Cracked or nothin'.

I have the entire run of the original mag, just sayin'.

Mister Earl · 20th December 2010, 01:05 PM

Every once in a while, Cracked comes up with something pretty intelligent, then disguises it with humor. Many other times, though, it's just some random "List of funny things" that somehow always takes up two pages for double the ad revenue.

TimCallahan · 20th December 2010, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Agatha

Good article. It ought to be required reading for a couple of people around here.

Could it be you're referring to DeBunk?????

HansMustermann · 20th December 2010, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by Sledge

I really don't understand that article. It's not funny and it's only going to challenge your preconceptions if you're an ignorant fool. Really don't see why it's on a humour site.

Not everything has to be funny. As for ignorant fools... well, it's not like there is a shortage of them.

Sledge · 20th December 2010, 05:30 PM

On a humour site? I think it should at least be trying to be funny. That's what Cracked is there for.

OlegTheBatty · 20th December 2010, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Sledge

I really don't understand that article. It's not funny and it's only going to challenge your preconceptions if you're an ignorant fool. Really don't see why it's on a humour site.

Because the notion that you can successfully challenge the preconceptions of an ignorant fool is freakin' hilarious?

Loss Leader · 20th December 2010, 05:48 PM

I think you have to give Wong credit for the things he's done right. He's brought a lot of good skepticism to the otherwise unsuspecting audience of Cracked readers. If his views aren't 100% the same as yours, they're sure a damn sight closer than most of the editors of online magazines. How much debunking has CollegeHumor done?

Wowbagger · 20th December 2010, 06:30 PM

Cracked should just change its name, already.

boyntonstu · 20th December 2010, 07:09 PM

Let's see:

One one hand we see a few religious Mormons who dress modestly living in a state that allow other Churches, Synagogues, etc.

On the other hand, we have a country that prevents women from driving and bans any other churches.

Is that a fair comparison between a Secular/Christian country and a Muslim country?

BTW Can you name any other religion that has a death penalty for those who quite their religion?

KingMerv00 · 20th December 2010, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Sledge

On a humour site? I think it should at least be trying to be funny. That's what Cracked is there for.

Phil gets similar complaints for his blog. His response is usually, "My website, my content."

Loss Leader · 20th December 2010, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by boyntonstu

BTW Can you name any other religion that has a death penalty for those who quite their religion?

How many people have been executed by their governments worldwide for apostasy from Islam in the last ten years?

Here's a hint: I already know the answer.

MG1962 · 20th December 2010, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by boyntonstu

Let's see:

One one hand we see a few religious Mormons who dress modestly living in a state that allow other Churches, Synagogues, etc.

On the other hand, we have a country that prevents women from driving and bans any other churches.

Is that a fair comparison between a Secular/Christian country and a Muslim country?

BTW Can you name any other religion that has a death penalty for those who quite their religion?

You funny long time - maybe you need to learn a little about that driving ban...cause it aint religious - and that Secular/Christian country is capable of producing Fred Phelps and sticks people in jail for years for using drugs people in other countries can buy at the corner store

KingMerv00 · 20th December 2010, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by boyntonstu

BTW Can you name any other religion that has a death penalty for those who quite their religion?

The Bible calls for the death penalty for a number of stupid things. Many of them dumber than apostasy.

Sledge · 21st December 2010, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by KingMerv00

Phil gets similar complaints for his blog. His response is usually, "My website, my content."

I don't think there's much of a comparison. If you go to someone's blog, you're going to read their thoughts. If those thoughts don't happen to be funny... well, who is funny all the time? Cracked, on the other hand, explicitly sells itself as a humor site. If an article isn't funny, I'm left thinking "why did I just read that?" and "whatever it would cost them to get Jay Pinkerton to do some articles for them would be totally worth it."

HansMustermann · 21st December 2010, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by boyntonstu

Let's see:

One one hand we see a few religious Mormons who dress modestly living in a state that allow other Churches, Synagogues, etc.

On the other hand, we have a country that prevents women from driving and bans any other churches.

Is that a fair comparison between a Secular/Christian country and a Muslim country?

BTW Can you name any other religion that has a death penalty for those who quite their religion?

Sure. Read Numbers. A genocide is ordered not only against those who quit their religion, but against the city-state that accepted them.

Then look at the Inquisition. Its _main_ mission was to hunt down heretics (like you know, those newfangled protestants) and apostates, not witches. The main accusation against most of those burned by the actual inquisition was that they converted (back) to Judaism or Islam.

Oystein · 21st December 2010, 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by KingMerv00

The Bible calls for the death penalty for a number of stupid things. Many of them dumber than apostasy.

The Bible (NT - one of Paul's letters) actually also calls for the veiling of women, and it was customary among many Christian women for ages to at least cover the hair when going to church, and still is in some parts.

Aepervius · 21st December 2010, 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by boyntonstu

Let's see:

One one hand we see a few religious Mormons who dress modestly living in a state that allow other Churches, Synagogues, etc.

On the other hand, we have a country that prevents women from driving and bans any other churches.

Is that a fair comparison between a Secular/Christian country and a Muslim country?

BTW Can you name any other religion that has a death penalty for those who quite their religion?

Although none that I know recently, you are aware that a lot of autodafé for heresy and apostasy happened in the past, right ?

Carn · 21st December 2010, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by Agatha

Good article. It ought to be required reading for a couple of people around here.

While the article itself is ok - its supposed to be humor therefore correct and well-balanced arguments are not top priority - its strange if anyone thinks, that people critical of islam do not know those arguments and might change their position by reading that article.

One gets to know those arguments or variations thereof roughly 5 mins after one starts to inquire living persons or internet upon the subject, whether there is anything more problematic about islam than about christianity.

HansMustermann · 21st December 2010, 07:15 AM

Except I don't think most people do any kind of inquiry. They use speech just to profess belonging to some group. If their group of bigots bleats "Islam demands burqas!!!" or "Islam is against science!!!", they nod approvingly and wait their turn to bleat the same thing and reassure the group that they are indeed that conformist. And everyone nods in return.

A lot of people seem genuinely confused and surprised when you ask them to support such claims or use proper logic, instead of nodding and bleating the same canned slogans right back. You must be some kind of evil person or that favourite strawman of wingnuts, the "useful idiot", if you don't automatically agree with the canned list of slogans.

ddt · 21st December 2010, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Carn

While the article itself is ok - its supposed to be humor therefore correct and well-balanced arguments are not top priority - its strange if anyone thinks, that people critical of islam do not know those arguments and might change their position by reading that article.

One gets to know those arguments or variations thereof roughly 5 mins after one starts to inquire living persons or internet upon the subject, whether there is anything more problematic about islam than about christianity.

I think you're thinking of the wrong audience. Yes, for people who have actually read something about Islam, the article won't bring anything new. But the great unwashed masses, so to say, who picked up something on Fox and just parrot the usual stereotypes, the article indeed gives new insights and challenges their ill-founded opinions.

Carn · 21st December 2010, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by ddt

I think you're thinking of the wrong audience. Yes, for people who have actually read something about Islam, the article won't bring anything new. But the great unwashed masses, so to say, who picked up something on Fox and just parrot the usual stereotypes, the article indeed gives new insights and challenges their ill-founded opinions.

Second post from agatha:
"Good article. It ought to be required reading for a couple of people around here."

One spends normally a few mins on some subject before coming to a forum to start a discussion about a subject.

boyntonstu · 22nd December 2010, 06:39 AM

Originally Posted by Aepervius

Although none that I know recently, you are aware that a lot of autodafé for heresy and apostasy happened in the past, right ?

Why do folks compare what used to happen to what is now happening and try to make them equal?

Is a reformed Alcoholic the same as an Alcoholic?

You betcha, if s/he is driving a car in your direction.

ANTPogo · 22nd December 2010, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by boyntonstu

Why do folks compare what used to happen to what is now happening and try to make them equal?

To show that while Islam certainly has a current problem with fundamentalism and radicalism among far too many of its adherents, at its core it's no different in what its holy writings demand than what Christianity's holy writings demand.

And things like al-Qaeda's terrorism and the Muslim Brotherhood's Islamism no more mean that the religion itself and all its followers are innately and immutably violent and backward and intolerant than things like Charlemagne's massacres of pagans and the Inqusition meant that Christianity and all its followers are innately and immutably violent and backward and intolerant.

Quote:

Is a reformed Alcoholic the same as an Alcoholic?

You betcha, if s/he is driving a car in your direction.

Yes, but the fact that one alcoholic reformed means that others can too.

Loss Leader · 22nd December 2010, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by boyntonstu

Why do folks compare what used to happen to what is now happening and try to make them equal?

Why do you believe that death sentences for apostates is something that is "now happening"? How many such death sentences have been carried out in the last ten years throughout the entire world?

HansMustermann · 22nd December 2010, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by boyntonstu

Why do folks compare what used to happen to what is now happening and try to make them equal?

Dunno, why do you do that? Because I've had it up to here with bigoted ideas about the Islam based on some verse from the 7'th century, and pretending that it applies to all Muslims everywhere, right now.

And usually for bonus points having to take it out of context too to sound worse. E.g., snipping half a verse about a war of defense and making it sound like some obligation to be aggressive. Just take the time to read the whole page when the next list of verses supposedly proving that Islam is evil comes around, and see if you can get even one that wasn't carved out of context for that list.

I figure, then at the very least I can dig for such quotes in your holy book too, right?

So yes, I'm asking the same question of the opposite camp: why _do_ you take something from almost a millennium and a half ago and pretend you're talking about the present? If you have no problem accepting that about 99% of the Christians ignore 99% of the rules in the Bible (e.g., you probably don't whip employees for doing something wrong, although it has the endorsement of Jesus himself) then what kind of confusion of mind can get one to think that every single Muslim is applying every single rule from the Quran all the time?

HansMustermann · 22nd December 2010, 12:06 PM

But to answer this clearly one more time...

Originally Posted by boyntonstu

BTW Can you name any other religion that has a death penalty for those who quite their religion?

Today, brothers and sisters, we open the Good Book to Exodus, chapter 22, verse 20:

"He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed."

In case it wasn't clear, it doesn't mean that some random accident will happen to him. It's part of a list of capital offenses, for which, yes, the death penalty is to be applied.

And in case some still doubt the Lord's words, let us turn to Leviticus, chapter 24, verse 16:

"He that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him."

So, you were saying? That's your religion right there which has such a prescribed death penalty.

Cainkane1 · 22nd December 2010, 12:15 PM

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/45/index.htm

joobie · 22nd December 2010, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Oystein

The Bible (NT - one of Paul's letters) actually also calls for the veiling of women, and it was customary among many Christian women for ages to at least cover the hair when going to church, and still is in some parts.

my brother is a traditional catholic, and the women in his church wear what they call a veil, but is actually more like a napkin on their heads.

HansMustermann · 22nd December 2010, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Cainkane1

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/45/index.htm

Duly noted, but as the annotations on the side tell you, that painful doom is what _Allah_ will do to those who got the Quran recited to them but refuse to believe in him. In that aspect it's no different from Jebus promising to fry you in Hell unless you believe in him. In fact, no, the one in the Quran is actually less repulsive: their god only promises to smite you if you had the text delivered to you, while for most Christians who ever lived the dogma was that even the tribesmen from some isolated island who never heard of Christ will go to Hell for just that.

And at least in Sura 45, from what I can see, the only obligation of the faithful towards those who refuse to believe is to give them tidings of that painful doom. I.e., telling someone, "dude, you'll fry in Hell for making fun of Allah" is actually all that it requires.

Loss Leader · 22nd December 2010, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by joobie

my brother is a traditional catholic, and the women in his church wear what they call a veil, but is actually more like a napkin on their heads.

As do most all women (and all married women) in my parents' synagogue.

Malerin · 22nd December 2010, 01:14 PM

Ten worst countries for women:

Afghanistan (99% Muslim)
DRC (87% Christian)
Iraq (97% Muslim)
Nepal (80% Hindu)
Sudan (70% Muslim)
Guatemala (majority Christian)
Mali (90% Muslim)
Pakistan (97% Muslim)
Saudi Arabia (100% Muslim)
Somalia (100% Muslim)
http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/326354
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rity_countries

But seriously, Islam is a religion of peace and toleance

Malerin · 22nd December 2010, 01:25 PM

How apropos:

Nouakchott, Mauritania (CNN) -- Mahjouba was raped in March on the nighttime streets of Mauritania's capital, but she will not bring charges against the man she says did it since she may be the one who ends up in prison. The 25-year-old says the legal advice she received was to not go to court, leaving her to suffer in silence.

There is no law in Mauritania that defines rape.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/africa...ex.html?hpt=C1

Mauritania is 99.99% Muslism.

What a shocker!

Malerin · 22nd December 2010, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Loss Leader

Why do you believe that death sentences for apostates is something that is "now happening"? How many such death sentences have been carried out in the last ten years throughout the entire world?

I don't know about apostates, but women are stoned to death in Iran for adultery:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2010/11...-of-a-stoning/

Vorticity · 22nd December 2010, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Cainkane1

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/45/index.htm

Wow. Not one, but three - count 'em - three distinct dooms!

HansMustermann · 22nd December 2010, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Malerin

Ten worst countries for women:

Afghanistan (99% Muslim)
DRC (87% Christian)
Iraq (97% Muslim)
Nepal (80% Hindu)
Sudan (70% Muslim)
Guatemala (majority Christian)
Mali (90% Muslim)
Pakistan (97% Muslim)
Saudi Arabia (100% Muslim)
Somalia (100% Muslim)
http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/326354
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rity_countries

But seriously, Islam is a religion of peace and toleance

So, since Guatemala is on that list, can we also conclude that Christianity as a whole is bad?

Also, non-sequitur duly noted. How do you jump from that to "religion of peace" is beyond me, but I guess that's the kind of mental gymnastics needed to support bigotry.

Also, I note the fine art of dishonest quoting out of context. Because the reasons it gives there for being worst for women typically have nothing to do with Islam.

The root causes in half the cases: war. E.g., the women's problem in Iraq isn't anywhere near religious in the original article you plucked that from, it's being impoverished and displaced by the war.

They say chutzpah is that quality which allows someone on trial for murdering his parents to ask for clemency because he's an orphan. And it takes a shameless lot of chutzpah for the country that invaded Iraq and caused the problems described in the article, to then blame them via an association fallacy on the Islam. No, really, it's so bullcrap, it's insulting.

Edit: I also note that you manage not to notice other countries noted there as being crap -- if indeed you actually read the article that list is from, and not just the list as a canned propaganda talking point -- such as Zambia, an officially Christian nation. What did _Christianity_ do for women there? Or, yeah, in Guatemala?

20th December 2010, 11:28 AM	#1
NWO Sentryman Proud NWO Gatekeeper Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Quantum Gate to the NWO Posts: 3,778	From Cracked: 5 ridiculous things you probably believe about Islam http://www.cracked.com/article_18911...out-islam.html Now before we have any flame wars, remember that cracked is near 100% accurate
	__________________ If I now say "dominoes", you won't think "pizza". Will you? - FireGarden on the Middle East Last edited by NWO Sentryman; 20th December 2010 at 11:33 AM.

20th December 2010, 12:22 PM	#2
Agatha Winking at the Moon Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: UK Posts: 4,231	Good article. It ought to be required reading for a couple of people around here.
	__________________ People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... timey wimey... stuff.

20th December 2010, 12:51 PM	#3
Sledge Grammaton Cleric Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Swingin' on a star Posts: 7,123	I really don't understand that article. It's not funny and it's only going to challenge your preconceptions if you're an ignorant fool. Really don't see why it's on a humour site.
	__________________ "The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.

20th December 2010, 12:54 PM	#4
Aepervius Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bierland. I mean , germany. Posts: 7,773	The article featured below on "10 things atheist and christian can agree" is OTOH very very poorly thought out. Especially read the part on morality, and cry.
	__________________ Omnes Blessant Ultima necat "I want, and this is my last and most dear wish, I want that the last of the king be strangled with the guts of the last priest" (Jean Meslier / 1664-1729 / Testament) A very early french atheist, a catholic priest in life.

20th December 2010, 01:02 PM	#5
Achán hiNidráne Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Muskego, WI. Posts: 3,979	Originally Posted by Aepervius The article featured below on "10 things atheist and christian can agree" is OTOH very very poorly thought out. Especially read the part on morality, and cry. Yeah, we were subjected to Wong's false equivocation in the past. As for the article itself, it was pretty good, but like Sledge I wonder why it was in Cracked.
	__________________ "As the Corpse Lord knows, men today are ill-trained--ignoble: naught but wet anuses dribbling childish terrors and superstitions! Thus is knowledge--history, science, the world of the ancients--lost, never to be regained!" --M.A.R. Barker, "The Man of Gold" Last edited by Achán hiNidráne; 20th December 2010 at 01:03 PM.

20th December 2010, 01:04 PM	#6
Monketey Ghost Body of Work Join Date: May 2003 Location: I'm on your screen! Posts: 14,807	The funny has fallen off in recent months, and I read the site less. Not to turn this into a referendum on Cracked or nothin'. I have the entire run of the original mag, just sayin'.
	__________________ _{The membership of this forum is henceforth to refer to me as potato-headed Bobby} _{SSKCAS, member in long standing}

20th December 2010, 01:05 PM	#7
Mister Earl Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,145	Every once in a while, Cracked comes up with something pretty intelligent, then disguises it with humor. Many other times, though, it's just some random "List of funny things" that somehow always takes up two pages for double the ad revenue.

20th December 2010, 04:26 PM	#8
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,138	Originally Posted by Agatha Good article. It ought to be required reading for a couple of people around here. Could it be you're referring to DeBunk?????
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,138

20th December 2010, 05:09 PM	#9
HansMustermann Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 9,851	Originally Posted by Sledge I really don't understand that article. It's not funny and it's only going to challenge your preconceptions if you're an ignorant fool. Really don't see why it's on a humour site. Not everything has to be funny. As for ignorant fools... well, it's not like there is a shortage of them.

20th December 2010, 05:30 PM	#10
Sledge Grammaton Cleric Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Swingin' on a star Posts: 7,123	On a humour site? I think it should at least be trying to be funny. That's what Cracked is there for.
	__________________ "The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.

20th December 2010, 05:43 PM	#11
OlegTheBatty Scholar Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: British Columbia Posts: 68	Originally Posted by Sledge I really don't understand that article. It's not funny and it's only going to challenge your preconceptions if you're an ignorant fool. Really don't see why it's on a humour site. Because the notion that you can successfully challenge the preconceptions of an ignorant fool is freakin' hilarious?
	__________________ ... it was obvious that he had received a homeopathic education; one so diluted of facts or information that he believed it had imparted an incredible wisdom. I tried to explain that that was just the placebo effect ...

20th December 2010, 05:48 PM	#12
Loss Leader Opinionated Jerk Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New York Posts: 11,885	I think you have to give Wong credit for the things he's done right. He's brought a lot of good skepticism to the otherwise unsuspecting audience of Cracked readers. If his views aren't 100% the same as yours, they're sure a damn sight closer than most of the editors of online magazines. How much debunking has CollegeHumor done?
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20th December 2010, 06:30 PM	#13
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Westchester County, NY (when not in space) Posts: 13,540	Cracked should just change its name, already.
	__________________ WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where *you* could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!!

20th December 2010, 07:09 PM	#14
boyntonstu Banned Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 916	Let's see: One one hand we see a few religious Mormons who dress modestly living in a state that allow other Churches, Synagogues, etc. On the other hand, we have a country that prevents women from driving and bans any other churches. Is that a fair comparison between a Secular/Christian country and a Muslim country? BTW Can you name any other religion that has a death penalty for those who quite their religion?

20th December 2010, 07:22 PM	#15
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	Originally Posted by Sledge On a humour site? I think it should at least be trying to be funny. That's what Cracked is there for. Phil gets similar complaints for his blog. His response is usually, "My website, my content."
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust?

20th December 2010, 07:27 PM	#16
Loss Leader Opinionated Jerk Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New York Posts: 11,885	Originally Posted by boyntonstu BTW Can you name any other religion that has a death penalty for those who quite their religion? How many people have been executed by their governments worldwide for apostasy from Islam in the last ten years? Here's a hint: I already know the answer.
	__________________ Follow me on Twitter! @LossLeader This force is receiving all the right to vote through the use of magic. - Miernik Wieslaw <NEW> VOTE FOR ME JUST BECAUSE <NEW>

20th December 2010, 07:34 PM	#17
MG1962 Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kansas (Australia) Posts: 14,750	Originally Posted by boyntonstu Let's see: One one hand we see a few religious Mormons who dress modestly living in a state that allow other Churches, Synagogues, etc. On the other hand, we have a country that prevents women from driving and bans any other churches. Is that a fair comparison between a Secular/Christian country and a Muslim country? BTW Can you name any other religion that has a death penalty for those who quite their religion? You funny long time - maybe you need to learn a little about that driving ban...cause it aint religious - and that Secular/Christian country is capable of producing Fred Phelps and sticks people in jail for years for using drugs people in other countries can buy at the corner store

20th December 2010, 07:50 PM	#18
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	Originally Posted by boyntonstu BTW Can you name any other religion that has a death penalty for those who quite their religion? The Bible calls for the death penalty for a number of stupid things. Many of them dumber than apostasy.
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust?

21st December 2010, 01:12 AM	#19
Sledge Grammaton Cleric Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Swingin' on a star Posts: 7,123	Originally Posted by KingMerv00 Phil gets similar complaints for his blog. His response is usually, "My website, my content." I don't think there's much of a comparison. If you go to someone's blog, you're going to read their thoughts. If those thoughts don't happen to be funny... well, who is funny all the time? Cracked, on the other hand, explicitly sells itself as a humor site. If an article isn't funny, I'm left thinking "why did I just read that?" and "whatever it would cost them to get Jay Pinkerton to do some articles for them would be totally worth it."
	__________________ "The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.

21st December 2010, 02:09 AM	#20
HansMustermann Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 9,851	Originally Posted by boyntonstu Let's see: One one hand we see a few religious Mormons who dress modestly living in a state that allow other Churches, Synagogues, etc. On the other hand, we have a country that prevents women from driving and bans any other churches. Is that a fair comparison between a Secular/Christian country and a Muslim country? BTW Can you name any other religion that has a death penalty for those who quite their religion? Sure. Read Numbers. A genocide is ordered not only against those who quit their religion, but against the city-state that accepted them. Then look at the Inquisition. Its _main_ mission was to hunt down heretics (like you know, those newfangled protestants) and apostates, not witches. The main accusation against most of those burned by the actual inquisition was that they converted (back) to Judaism or Islam.

21st December 2010, 02:37 AM	#21
Oystein Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 9,827	Originally Posted by KingMerv00 The Bible calls for the death penalty for a number of stupid things. Many of them dumber than apostasy. The Bible (NT - one of Paul's letters) actually also calls for the veiling of women, and it was customary among many Christian women for ages to at least cover the hair when going to church, and still is in some parts.

21st December 2010, 03:46 AM	#22
Aepervius Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bierland. I mean , germany. Posts: 7,773	Originally Posted by boyntonstu Let's see: One one hand we see a few religious Mormons who dress modestly living in a state that allow other Churches, Synagogues, etc. On the other hand, we have a country that prevents women from driving and bans any other churches. Is that a fair comparison between a Secular/Christian country and a Muslim country? BTW Can you name any other religion that has a death penalty for those who quite their religion? Although none that I know recently, you are aware that a lot of autodafé for heresy and apostasy happened in the past, right ?
	__________________ Omnes Blessant Ultima necat "I want, and this is my last and most dear wish, I want that the last of the king be strangled with the guts of the last priest" (Jean Meslier / 1664-1729 / Testament) A very early french atheist, a catholic priest in life. Last edited by Aepervius; 21st December 2010 at 03:48 AM.

21st December 2010, 04:50 AM	#23
Carn Muse Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 966	Originally Posted by Agatha Good article. It ought to be required reading for a couple of people around here. While the article itself is ok - its supposed to be humor therefore correct and well-balanced arguments are not top priority - its strange if anyone thinks, that people critical of islam do not know those arguments and might change their position by reading that article. One gets to know those arguments or variations thereof roughly 5 mins after one starts to inquire living persons or internet upon the subject, whether there is anything more problematic about islam than about christianity.
Carn Muse Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 966

21st December 2010, 07:15 AM	#24
HansMustermann Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 9,851	Except I don't think most people do any kind of inquiry. They use speech just to profess belonging to some group. If their group of bigots bleats "Islam demands burqas!!!" or "Islam is against science!!!", they nod approvingly and wait their turn to bleat the same thing and reassure the group that they are indeed that conformist. And everyone nods in return. A lot of people seem genuinely confused and surprised when you ask them to support such claims or use proper logic, instead of nodding and bleating the same canned slogans right back. You must be some kind of evil person or that favourite strawman of wingnuts, the "useful idiot", if you don't automatically agree with the canned list of slogans.

21st December 2010, 03:44 PM	#25
ddt Mafia Penguin Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 10,331	Originally Posted by Carn While the article itself is ok - its supposed to be humor therefore correct and well-balanced arguments are not top priority - its strange if anyone thinks, that people critical of islam do not know those arguments and might change their position by reading that article. One gets to know those arguments or variations thereof roughly 5 mins after one starts to inquire living persons or internet upon the subject, whether there is anything more problematic about islam than about christianity. I think you're thinking of the wrong audience. Yes, for people who have actually read something about Islam, the article won't bring anything new. But the great unwashed masses, so to say, who picked up something on Fox and just parrot the usual stereotypes, the article indeed gives new insights and challenges their ill-founded opinions.
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21st December 2010, 09:55 PM	#26
Carn Muse Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 966	Originally Posted by ddt I think you're thinking of the wrong audience. Yes, for people who have actually read something about Islam, the article won't bring anything new. But the great unwashed masses, so to say, who picked up something on Fox and just parrot the usual stereotypes, the article indeed gives new insights and challenges their ill-founded opinions. Second post from agatha: "Good article. It ought to be required reading for a couple of people around here." One spends normally a few mins on some subject before coming to a forum to start a discussion about a subject.
Carn Muse Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 966

22nd December 2010, 06:39 AM	#27
boyntonstu Banned Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 916	Originally Posted by Aepervius Although none that I know recently, you are aware that a lot of autodafé for heresy and apostasy happened in the past, right ? Why do folks compare what used to happen to what is now happening and try to make them equal? Is a reformed Alcoholic the same as an Alcoholic? You betcha, if s/he is driving a car in your direction.

22nd December 2010, 06:59 AM	#28
ANTPogo Unique Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 9,476	Originally Posted by boyntonstu Why do folks compare what used to happen to what is now happening and try to make them equal? To show that while Islam certainly has a current problem with fundamentalism and radicalism among far too many of its adherents, at its core it's no different in what its holy writings demand than what Christianity's holy writings demand. And things like al-Qaeda's terrorism and the Muslim Brotherhood's Islamism no more mean that the religion itself and all its followers are innately and immutably violent and backward and intolerant than things like Charlemagne's massacres of pagans and the Inqusition meant that Christianity and all its followers are innately and immutably violent and backward and intolerant. Quote: Is a reformed Alcoholic the same as an Alcoholic? You betcha, if s/he is driving a car in your direction. Yes, but the fact that one alcoholic reformed means that others can too.

22nd December 2010, 11:38 AM	#29
Loss Leader Opinionated Jerk Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New York Posts: 11,885	Originally Posted by boyntonstu Why do folks compare what used to happen to what is now happening and try to make them equal? Why do you believe that death sentences for apostates is something that is "now happening"? How many such death sentences have been carried out in the last ten years throughout the entire world?
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22nd December 2010, 11:54 AM	#30
HansMustermann Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 9,851	Originally Posted by boyntonstu Why do folks compare what used to happen to what is now happening and try to make them equal? Dunno, why do you do that? Because I've had it up to here with bigoted ideas about the Islam based on some verse from the 7'th century, and pretending that it applies to all Muslims everywhere, right now. And usually for bonus points having to take it out of context too to sound worse. E.g., snipping half a verse about a war of defense and making it sound like some obligation to be aggressive. Just take the time to read the whole page when the next list of verses supposedly proving that Islam is evil comes around, and see if you can get even one that wasn't carved out of context for that list. I figure, then at the very least I can dig for such quotes in your holy book too, right? So yes, I'm asking the same question of the opposite camp: why _do_ you take something from almost a millennium and a half ago and pretend you're talking about the present? If you have no problem accepting that about 99% of the Christians ignore 99% of the rules in the Bible (e.g., you probably don't whip employees for doing something wrong, although it has the endorsement of Jesus himself) then what kind of confusion of mind can get one to think that every single Muslim is applying every single rule from the Quran all the time?

22nd December 2010, 12:06 PM	#31
HansMustermann Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 9,851	But to answer this clearly one more time... Originally Posted by boyntonstu BTW Can you name any other religion that has a death penalty for those who quite their religion? Today, brothers and sisters, we open the Good Book to Exodus, chapter 22, verse 20: "He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed." In case it wasn't clear, it doesn't mean that some random accident will happen to him. It's part of a list of capital offenses, for which, yes, the death penalty is to be applied. And in case some still doubt the Lord's words, let us turn to Leviticus, chapter 24, verse 16: "He that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him." So, you were saying? That's your religion right there which has such a prescribed death penalty.

22nd December 2010, 12:15 PM	#32
Cainkane1 Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The great American southeast Posts: 7,198	http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/45/index.htm
	__________________ If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.

22nd December 2010, 12:21 PM	#33
joobie i don't care Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in my dreams, i am still in perú Posts: 2,517	Originally Posted by Oystein The Bible (NT - one of Paul's letters) actually also calls for the veiling of women, and it was customary among many Christian women for ages to at least cover the hair when going to church, and still is in some parts. my brother is a traditional catholic, and the women in his church wear what they call a veil, but is actually more like a napkin on their heads.
	__________________ Don't you just hate it when some uppity Black Guys escape from the Liberal Brainwash? - Robert Prey

22nd December 2010, 12:24 PM	#34
HansMustermann Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 9,851	Originally Posted by Cainkane1 http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/45/index.htm Duly noted, but as the annotations on the side tell you, that painful doom is what _Allah_ will do to those who got the Quran recited to them but refuse to believe in him. In that aspect it's no different from Jebus promising to fry you in Hell unless you believe in him. In fact, no, the one in the Quran is actually less repulsive: their god only promises to smite you if you had the text delivered to you, while for most Christians who ever lived the dogma was that even the tribesmen from some isolated island who never heard of Christ will go to Hell for just that. And at least in Sura 45, from what I can see, the only obligation of the faithful towards those who refuse to believe is to give them tidings of that painful doom. I.e., telling someone, "dude, you'll fry in Hell for making fun of Allah" is actually all that it requires.

22nd December 2010, 12:24 PM	#35
Loss Leader Opinionated Jerk Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New York Posts: 11,885	Originally Posted by joobie my brother is a traditional catholic, and the women in his church wear what they call a veil, but is actually more like a napkin on their heads. As do most all women (and all married women) in my parents' synagogue.
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