I need EEG supplies to prove me channeling Michael Jackson for the at home trials.

kathleenr · 20th December 2010, 05:52 PM

Hi everyone. I am channeling the spirit of Michael Jackson. I need an EEG Kit that is not so expensive to do at home trials with him channeling in me. I will test this way: He will move me, and my own brain does not function. This should show on EEG. This is real. I need to test this at home to see what we can produce together on and EEG. I do know that he can speak through me without me having the intention of it or my own voice used by me. He can move me, from the inside, and also move me with his own hands from the outside of me. He can move my whole body, without my doing so myself. I just let him do it. I need an EEG to test with him. Can anyone help me find the software, neuroheadband, and supplies included to test this? We can prove afterlife and spirit communication real!! He can channel in me. Together, we can prove this real.
I know that the Brocha's area of the brain produces speech. If he can speak through me, and not produce feedback from that area, that is another test we can do. He can also speak his own thoughts without me knowing what he will say before this. We can use a Brainmap that lights up to show if I have activity in the areas that I should have if I were acting or if it were only coming from my own mind. I have been called a Schizophrenic, and I tested for two weeks on medicine for this disorder to prove to loved ones that I was not Schizophrenic. He was still able to speak through me. It had no effect. This was not a mind disorder or multiple personalities of my own, this was a real spirit person speaking through me. He still does this, every day, with me. We are two completely different people. I have a country accent and he has a city public speaking accent. Also, I have diagnosed Social Anxiety Disorder and I could not possibly act on camera, sing, or dance like him, or speak so directly. Knowing this, though people do not believe this is real, because of who he is.
I was a greiving fan when he came to me, and I would never take advantage of his fans or loved ones with false impressions of him.
I am doing this by his command and direction. I am not boastful, or arrogant about this. I only want people to know that I am being honest and sincere and not falsely impersonating the spirit of someone as special and famous as he is. We are a couple like on the movie City Of Angels and he is willing to do this with me.
Please anyone send me information on how I can rent an at home EEG kit. Thank You, Kathleen.
Here is my Youtube channel of videos of him channeling singing, dancing, and speaking in me- Katwoman141.
I also posted EVPs of him that are 100% real.
This is real, or I would not go these lengths to test with science with Michael. My story is real and he is here. He can channel in me at any time. Thank you for the help!! Michael has no intention of effecting people he loved in his life. He will stay only behind the camera or written letters through me for the normalcy of the situation of all involved. This weighs heavily on both of us. I cannot imagine me saying to his family "Come see your loved one who passed, alive through me again." That seems very harsh and uncomfortable. They will have the ability to contact him if he is proven real. If we win the challenge, I will use the money to give him proper clothing, studio, and sound for his channeled material through me. I look forward to testing with him, and I hope that this can eventually put to rest the rumors that I am a fraud, fake, and just wanting attention for a story that seems made up. This will put my mind at ease and fix my reputation, heal the fans of his, and others if they choose this as a way to heal. This will also prove Ghost Hunters real as well. I hope the tests work as they plan. Thank you for the help!

DC · 20th December 2010, 05:55 PM

Quote:

I am channeling the spirit of Michael Jackson.

No, you are not

Sword_Of_Truth · 20th December 2010, 05:58 PM

Putting a copy of the "GAP for Kids" catalog in front of you while channeling and seeing if you start touching yourself is another test we can do.

Don't look at me like that... somebody was gonna say it.

DC · 20th December 2010, 06:00 PM

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

pls say that is parody.

Cavemonster · 20th December 2010, 06:00 PM

If you do get access to an eeg setup, and the expert operating and reading it tells you that the reading is absolutely normal for someone moving and singing as you are, will you then take a second look at what's causing these phenomena?

DC · 20th December 2010, 06:01 PM

and it looks like he failed to channel true the talent.....

Sword_Of_Truth · 20th December 2010, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by DC

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

pls say that is parody.

That's either a white woman pretending to be Michael Jackson... or it's Micheal Jackson.

Cavemonster · 20th December 2010, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by DC

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

pls say that is parody.

Aww, I was hoping it would be this woman

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

DC · 20th December 2010, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Cavemonster

Aww, I was hoping it would be this woman

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

LOL literally

calebprime · 20th December 2010, 06:08 PM

Here's a link to one of your YouTube postings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AskDEIV5xmU

And here's a recording of Michael Jackson.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hffSKn9BQc0

I'm hearing that you sing it differently than M. Jackson.

An accurate test of brain activity would show that your brain is doing all the work that one might expect. A home eeg kit probably would not be accurate or sensitive enough, I'd wager.

Good luck, though.

John Jones · 20th December 2010, 06:08 PM

You came to the wrong place!

DC · 20th December 2010, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by John Jones

You came to the wrong place!

no, when she can convince JREF and get the million, this was the perfect place to be

(OK the wrong Subforum)

DC · 20th December 2010, 06:14 PM

Quote:

I cannot imagine me saying to his family "Come see your loved one who passed, alive through me again."

i dont really like his Family, but leave them out of your delusion.

ben m · 20th December 2010, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by kathleenr

I will test this way: He will move me, and my own brain does not function. This should show on EEG.

An EEG cannot tell much about what your brain is doing---the only things it can answer with real confidence are (A) "is the patient alive or dead", and (B) "is the patient having an epileptic seizure or not".

An EEG cannot tell whether or not you are consciously controlling your limbs.

Cavemonster · 20th December 2010, 06:19 PM

Quote:

I will test this way: He will move me, and my own brain does not function. This should show on EEG.

Originally Posted by ben m

An EEG cannot tell much about what your brain is doing---the only things it can answer with real confidence are (A) "is the patient alive or dead", and (B) "is the patient having an epileptic seizure or not".

An EEG cannot tell whether or not you are consciously controlling your limbs.

No, wait, I think she's on to something here.

edona7 · 20th December 2010, 06:23 PM

The cheapest used EEG kit from used medical device stores costs around $3000. New, they are around $60k or more.

I watched your videos, and videos of Michael Jackson - you don't look, sound, or move like he did. I seriously suggest you reconsider going back to your psychiatrist. I don't doubt that you are sincere, but I seriously think you are self-deluded.

DC · 20th December 2010, 06:24 PM

oh well after so much hostility i feel bad

Hi Kathleen R, welcome to the forum.

ftl · 20th December 2010, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by kathleenr

Hi everyone. I am channeling the spirit of Michael Jackson.

How do you know it's Michael Jackson?

Here's an easier, simpler test - record yourself while you're channeling the spirit, and have him tell you something that you wouldn't have otherwise known from the news about him.

Quote:

I need an EEG Kit that is not so expensive to do at home trials with him channeling in me. I will test this way: He will move me, and my own brain does not function. This should show on EEG.

If some brain abnormalities show on EEG, that wouldn't at all indicate anything about Michael Jackson. It would show that your brain is behaving weirdly when you feel weird. Not evidence of the paranormal yet.

Quote:

I know that the Brocha's area of the brain produces speech. If he can speak through me, and not produce feedback from that area, that is another test we can do. He can also speak his own thoughts without me knowing what he will say before this. We can use a Brainmap that lights up to show if I have activity in the areas that I should have if I were acting or if it were only coming from my own mind.

How do any of those tests tie in to Michael Jackson, specifically?

Even supposing that, given the EEG, you'd show up as noticeably abnormal... how would that prove spirit possession, rather than something more mundane like a mental disorder?

(By the way, if you look up EEG on Wikipedia, it doesn't seem like EEGs would give you the information you're looking for anyway. It seems to be a fairly coarse measure that won't tell you much besides whether you're having a seizure or not. To do the test you propose, I *think* you'd need more advanced brain measurement techniques. How much do you know about EEGs, to be able to propose and run this test?)

Quote:

This was not a mind disorder or multiple personalities of my own, this was a real spirit person speaking through me.

How can you tell that it's a different person - somebody who was physically elsewhere, and is now with you? Do they say anything about their past lives that you can verify?

Quote:

He still does this, every day, with me. We are two completely different people. I have a country accent and he has a city public speaking accent. Also, I have diagnosed Social Anxiety Disorder and I could not possibly act on camera, sing, or dance like him, or speak so directly. Knowing this, though people do not believe this is real, because of who he is.

Unfortunately, all this tells us is that sometimes you act one way, and at other times you act a different way.

How can you tell it's not some variant of Multiple Personality Disorder or something like that?

Vortigern99 · 20th December 2010, 06:35 PM

How can you be certain it's not a demonic entity pretending it is Michael Jackson?

I understand demons, if they exist, are clever and manipulative in that regard. The demon Pazuzu, in the fictional novel and film The Exorcist, convinced its human host, little Regan McNeil, that it was a friendly spirit named Captain Howdy.

Please explain how you can eliminate the possibility that your invading spirit is who it claims to be.

casebro · 20th December 2010, 06:36 PM

Kathleenr, mental treatments can be very difficult. The fact that a two week trial did not have the desired effect does not mean that there is not another treatment that might work, and allow you to live a more normal life.

I would suggest that you print out the opening post and bring it to your psychiatrist. If you don't beleive him, show the links you've posted to your trusted family members, I'll bet they will bring you to talk to the psychiatrist.

KingMerv00 · 20th December 2010, 06:44 PM

Seems like a abnormally high percentage of channelers channel celebraties.

bokonon · 20th December 2010, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by KingMerv00

Seems like a abnormally high percentage of channelers channel celebraties.

Maybe only celebrities have the kind of high-voltage personalities one needs to break on through from the other side.

This OP, and that YouTube video, made me very sad. I can't help imagining what this young woman's family must be going through. It has to be heartbreaking; I hope they find something that works, and a way to convince her to stick with it.

Puppycow · 21st December 2010, 12:17 AM

I don't see how an EEG or any kind of device for that matter could ever prove that a person is channeling the dead spirit of another person.

Quote:

The electroencephalogram, or EEG, measures and records the electrical activity of the neurons in the brain

It does not measure spirits or ghosts, because they don't exist. Or at least they don't produce electrical fields. If they did exist and did produce electrical fields, their existence could have been proven scientifically a long time ago.

DC · 21st December 2010, 12:21 AM

you know, a lot JREFers seem pretty mean when confronted with woo.

Puppycow · 21st December 2010, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by DC

you know, a lot JREFers seem pretty mean when confronted with woo.

I don't think I was being impolite. I was being frank. Your own posts were very dismissive.

DC · 21st December 2010, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

I don't think I was being impolite. I was being frank. Your own posts were very dismissive.

yes mine where. and its pretty counterproductive i think. it will propably strengthen her delusion rather than anything else.

Cavemonster · 21st December 2010, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by DC

yes mine where. and its pretty counterproductive i think. it will propably strengthen her delusion rather than anything else.

I have given this sort of situation a lot of thought and have come to exactly the opposite conclusion.

In years of seeing people who seem to have mental illness or really crazy self destructive ideas, gentle attempts to sympathize and suggestions of professional help always trigger a deeper burrowing in. Attempts to take the idea seriously to encourage honest self testing trigger deeper denial and add validity to a claim.

Frankly, one of the few things I've seen change minds at all is cruel peer pressure and merciless rejection of the validity of a crazy idea.

Bikewer · 21st December 2010, 05:34 AM

Michael used to hang around the university here. Oddly, he was a thirty-ish overweight black man with a rather angelic smile. Quite demented.... He would tell you quite seriously that he was just about to go out on tour and was going back into the studio shortly thereafter.
We'd tell him he had to leave and he'd cooperate willingly....Actually quite pleasant but utterly delusional.

bokonon · 21st December 2010, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by Cavemonster

In years of seeing people who seem to have mental illness or really crazy self destructive ideas, gentle attempts to sympathize and suggestions of professional help always trigger a deeper burrowing in. Attempts to take the idea seriously to encourage honest self testing trigger deeper denial and add validity to a claim.

Frankly, one of the few things I've seen change minds at all is cruel peer pressure and merciless rejection of the validity of a crazy idea.

I'd hesitate to assign too much weight to the anecdotal case study of "people Cavemonster has known."

While merciless rejection of some crazy ideas (i.e., "ridicule can cure schizophrenia") may actually be effective, I'd be skeptical of anyone who claims to be able to cure schizophrenia with peer pressure. I am not a doctor, but I encourage kathleenr to indulge her loved ones a little longer and revisit one.

Lothian · 21st December 2010, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by kathleenr

...Please anyone send me information on how I can rent an at home EEG kit. Thank You, Kathleen.

Easy type 'EEG rental' into Google.

First hit.

Bye.

Cavemonster · 21st December 2010, 06:03 AM

Originally Posted by bokonon

I'd hesitate to assign too much weight to the anecdotal case study of "people Cavemonster has known."

While merciless rejection of some crazy ideas (i.e., "ridicule can cure schizophrenia") may actually be effective, I'd be skeptical of anyone who claims to be able to cure schizophrenia with peer pressure. I am not a doctor, but I encourage kathleenr to indulge her loved ones a little longer and revisit one.

The claim isn't that anything can be cured with peer pressure, it is that rejection is better than sympathy in getting people to realize something is wrong.

It is utterly unscientific, but I'm not aware of any studies that show that the earnest pleas of strangers are useful at getting people to therapy. So on that front we stand on the same ground. In social situations most of us tend to work from personal experience rather than rigorous studies.

bokonon · 21st December 2010, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by Cavemonster

The claim isn't that anything can be cured with peer pressure, it is that rejection is better than sympathy in getting people to realize something is wrong.

It is utterly unscientific, but I'm not aware of any studies that show that the earnest pleas of strangers are useful at getting people to therapy. So on that front we stand on the same ground. In social situations most of us tend to work from personal experience rather than rigorous studies.

Fair enough. I'm fortunate enough (or asocial enough) to have no personal experience with the delusional beyond random encounters with street people. I've encountered several people online whose writing seemed to my completely untrained eye to hint at schizophrenia, and kathleenr strikes me as the latest.

I've tried to override my natural inclination to guffaw like a donkey when hearing kathleenr's claims, because it seems mean spirited to mock someone for their disability.

I'm no fan of Michael Jackson, but neither the singing nor the "dance moves" on that YouTube video reminded me of the late pop star. It seems likely to me that all that's being channeled is someone's secret desire to be a performer.

kathleenr · 21st December 2010, 07:38 AM

Yes this will prove this real, because if I were doing this myself, my brains waves from the area that produce that movement on a human being would show active. I do not think before and during his moving me, so that means that my brain waves would be relaxed with my body moving. There is NO way a human can move with brain activity. I am confident in this, and yes it is him, he stood on on his toes and completely leaned forward his weight and stood upright, the way only he can do it, this is his toe lean move he does after he spins!! He can do a perfect moonwalk in me, and all. I know secret talents he has and secret medical history of his that would confirm him for his family if they ask for it. I know him as a person, so there is no way I could make these claims without actually knowing him.

calebprime · 21st December 2010, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by Bikewer

Michael used to hang around the university here. Oddly, he was a thirty-ish overweight black man with a rather angelic smile. Quite demented.... He would tell you quite seriously that he was just about to go out on tour and was going back into the studio shortly thereafter.
We'd tell him he had to leave and he'd cooperate willingly....Actually quite pleasant but utterly delusional.

Sounds just like that Simpsons episode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6PWVZDnP1E

Originally Posted by Cavemonster

The claim isn't that anything can be cured with peer pressure, it is that rejection is better than sympathy in getting people to realize something is wrong.

It is utterly unscientific, but I'm not aware of any studies that show that the earnest pleas of strangers are useful at getting people to therapy. So on that front we stand on the same ground. In social situations most of us tend to work from personal experience rather than rigorous studies.

I think this is a very interesting question, but we'd need to narrow it down to what works for a particular kind of person, in a particular kind of relationship to the one doing the disapproving or sympathizing, and in what kinds of cases.

In some cases where I have acted wrongly, both kinds of reactions have been useful for me. (I'll say no more.)

Lothian · 21st December 2010, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by kathleenr

Yes this will prove this real, because if I were doing this myself, my brains waves from the area that produce that movement on a human being would show active. I do not think before and during his moving me, so that means that my brain waves would be relaxed with my body moving. There is NO way a human can move with brain activity. I am confident in this, and yes it is him, he stood on on his toes and completely leaned forward his weight and stood upright, the way only he can do it, this is his toe lean move he does after he spins!! He can do a perfect moonwalk in me, and all. I know secret talents he has and secret medical history of his that would confirm him for his family if they ask for it. I know him as a person, so there is no way I could make these claims without actually knowing him.

Of course until the secret medical history is confirmed by the family you have no way of knowing whether it is the child molester himself or someone else pretending to be him.

calebprime · 21st December 2010, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by kathleenr

Yes this will prove this real, because if I were doing this myself, my brains waves from the area that produce that movement on a human being would show active. I do not think before and during his moving me, so that means that my brain waves would be relaxed with my body moving. There is NO way a human can move with(out) brain activity. I am confident in this, and yes it is him, he stood on on his toes and completely leaned forward his weight and stood upright, the way only he can do it, this is his toe lean move he does after he spins!! He can do a perfect moonwalk in me, and all. I know secret talents he has and secret medical history of his that would confirm him for his family if they ask for it. I know him as a person, so there is no way I could make these claims without actually knowing him.

Musicians often feel that they're "in the zone" -- not controlling themselves, but controlled by the music. It's just called "getting into it". Music is often used to go into trance-like states.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying this, but you don't have to believe that it is actually Jackson's spirit, and you don't need brain-imaging to enjoy it.

Lots of people sing in the shower, or play air-guitar, nothing wrong with it.

But it doesn't have supernatural causes.

This is a forum where skeptics congregate. So you'll need a thick skin here.

If you want to test yourself, a much better test would be to sing in front of a musically-trained person and be open to criticism.

To my trained ear, you don't sound like Jackson singing through a female body. You sound like someone who likes his music but doesn't quite have the accuracy of pitch yet.

If you keep singing, you may find some ways to take pleasure in it without having to make (unfortunately false) supernatural claims.

kathleenr · 21st December 2010, 08:03 AM

He is a male using a female's voice box! I also cannot sing at all!! He can, he can hold notes, and sings with a guitar sound. I cannot sing nor would I ever! I am far too shy to do this. I might as well apply for this. I bought Neurosky's Mindset EEG controled device to test with, and the software I bought called Mindrec that is supposed to read mind waves, did not work. I spent nearly $600 on this set!! Why would anyone spend that much money of they were acting? I only needed info, not input from the world on what you thin this is. I only need supplies. I've got the proof and the spirit. I need to home test it before I get the real one just to see what we can produce and if it is accurate in explaining that I have either a spirit moving me or I am not a normal human. I have been tested with Saphris medicine and it did not work, because I am not Schizophrenic. Anyway, This is just info for you all to discuss among yourselves. I have the gift, the spirit, and I only need help testing it!!!

kathleenr · 21st December 2010, 08:09 AM

He has medical issues that matched some of the issues treated by his known medicines. I cannot just state "He has this..specific medical issue, without a doubt" without knowing the man himself or knowing what that medicine treated specifically.They are more human than you all know. He knows me as a man, but he is an Earth Angel like on the movie City of Angels. It's real.

calebprime · 21st December 2010, 08:18 AM

Even if you got an FMRI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functio...onance_imaging

it would show normal activity in your motor cortex when you do this.

As for the JREF challenge, that is a long process in which *you* must design a test proving some supernatural abilities.

If you are interested in this rigorous process, read the rules, etc. Here's a start, a FAQ sheet.

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/...lenge-faq.html

To put it bluntly, no one here has suggested that you are insincere, only that you are mistaken.

You may have spent some money on some device. I'd suggest that in the future that you consult with some expert about what would be a more useful device, and save your money, and time.

I myself have spent half my life in a musical trance of some kind or other, and it's been the most enjoyable thing in my life. With time, I even got competent at some things musical -- guitar, composition.

It's natural to do music.

ben m · 21st December 2010, 08:36 AM

Kathleen, Michael Jackson is not the only person on Earth who can do the moonwalk, spin, toe-stand, etc. I would guess that ten thousand to a hundred thousand people can dance like this. (*Most* of them learned it by copying Jackson, but still.) Hundreds of millions of people can sing, and millions can sing many of Jackson's songs.

Google for "Michael Jackson imitator" and you'll see a few thousand of the best ones.

20th December 2010, 05:52 PM	#1
kathleenr New Blood Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 5	I need EEG supplies to prove me channeling Michael Jackson for the at home trials. Hi everyone. I am channeling the spirit of Michael Jackson. I need an EEG Kit that is not so expensive to do at home trials with him channeling in me. I will test this way: He will move me, and my own brain does not function. This should show on EEG. This is real. I need to test this at home to see what we can produce together on and EEG. I do know that he can speak through me without me having the intention of it or my own voice used by me. He can move me, from the inside, and also move me with his own hands from the outside of me. He can move my whole body, without my doing so myself. I just let him do it. I need an EEG to test with him. Can anyone help me find the software, neuroheadband, and supplies included to test this? We can prove afterlife and spirit communication real!! He can channel in me. Together, we can prove this real. I know that the Brocha's area of the brain produces speech. If he can speak through me, and not produce feedback from that area, that is another test we can do. He can also speak his own thoughts without me knowing what he will say before this. We can use a Brainmap that lights up to show if I have activity in the areas that I should have if I were acting or if it were only coming from my own mind. I have been called a Schizophrenic, and I tested for two weeks on medicine for this disorder to prove to loved ones that I was not Schizophrenic. He was still able to speak through me. It had no effect. This was not a mind disorder or multiple personalities of my own, this was a real spirit person speaking through me. He still does this, every day, with me. We are two completely different people. I have a country accent and he has a city public speaking accent. Also, I have diagnosed Social Anxiety Disorder and I could not possibly act on camera, sing, or dance like him, or speak so directly. Knowing this, though people do not believe this is real, because of who he is. I was a greiving fan when he came to me, and I would never take advantage of his fans or loved ones with false impressions of him. I am doing this by his command and direction. I am not boastful, or arrogant about this. I only want people to know that I am being honest and sincere and not falsely impersonating the spirit of someone as special and famous as he is. We are a couple like on the movie City Of Angels and he is willing to do this with me. Please anyone send me information on how I can rent an at home EEG kit. Thank You, Kathleen. Here is my Youtube channel of videos of him channeling singing, dancing, and speaking in me- Katwoman141. I also posted EVPs of him that are 100% real. This is real, or I would not go these lengths to test with science with Michael. My story is real and he is here. He can channel in me at any time. Thank you for the help!! Michael has no intention of effecting people he loved in his life. He will stay only behind the camera or written letters through me for the normalcy of the situation of all involved. This weighs heavily on both of us. I cannot imagine me saying to his family "Come see your loved one who passed, alive through me again." That seems very harsh and uncomfortable. They will have the ability to contact him if he is proven real. If we win the challenge, I will use the money to give him proper clothing, studio, and sound for his channeled material through me. I look forward to testing with him, and I hope that this can eventually put to rest the rumors that I am a fraud, fake, and just wanting attention for a story that seems made up. This will put my mind at ease and fix my reputation, heal the fans of his, and others if they choose this as a way to heal. This will also prove Ghost Hunters real as well. I hope the tests work as they plan. Thank you for the help!
kathleenr New Blood Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 5

20th December 2010, 05:55 PM	#2
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,639	Quote: I am channeling the spirit of Michael Jackson. No, you are not
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

20th December 2010, 05:58 PM	#3
Sword_Of_Truth Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,497	Putting a copy of the "GAP for Kids" catalog in front of you while channeling and seeing if you start touching yourself is another test we can do. Don't look at me like that... somebody was gonna say it.
	Last edited by Sword_Of_Truth; 20th December 2010 at 05:59 PM.

20th December 2010, 06:00 PM	#5
Cavemonster Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,916	If you do get access to an eeg setup, and the expert operating and reading it tells you that the reading is absolutely normal for someone moving and singing as you are, will you then take a second look at what's causing these phenomena?
Cavemonster Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,916	__________________ The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON

20th December 2010, 06:01 PM	#6
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,639	and it looks like he failed to channel true the talent.....
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

20th December 2010, 06:08 PM	#10
calebprime Somewhat Elitist Parasite Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 7,747	Here's a link to one of your YouTube postings. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AskDEIV5xmU And here's a recording of Michael Jackson. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hffSKn9BQc0 I'm hearing that you sing it differently than M. Jackson. An accurate test of brain activity would show that your brain is doing all the work that one might expect. A home eeg kit probably would not be accurate or sensitive enough, I'd wager. Good luck, though.
	__________________ Mr. DeBakey's free, but he's a little bit conciliatory.

20th December 2010, 06:08 PM	#11
John Jones Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,704	You came to the wrong place!
John Jones Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,704

20th December 2010, 06:12 PM	#12
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,639	Originally Posted by John Jones You came to the wrong place! no, when she can convince JREF and get the million, this was the perfect place to be (OK the wrong Subforum)
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

20th December 2010, 06:14 PM	#13
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,639	Quote: I cannot imagine me saying to his family "Come see your loved one who passed, alive through me again." i dont really like his Family, but leave them out of your delusion.
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

20th December 2010, 06:17 PM	#14
ben m Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,638	Originally Posted by kathleenr I will test this way: He will move me, and my own brain does not function. This should show on EEG. An EEG cannot tell much about what your brain is doing---the only things it can answer with real confidence are (A) "is the patient alive or dead", and (B) "is the patient having an epileptic seizure or not". An EEG cannot tell whether or not you are consciously controlling your limbs.
ben m Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,638

20th December 2010, 06:19 PM	#15
Cavemonster Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,916	Quote: I will test this way: He will move me, and my own brain does not function. This should show on EEG. Originally Posted by ben m An EEG cannot tell much about what your brain is doing---the only things it can answer with real confidence are (A) "is the patient alive or dead", and (B) "is the patient having an epileptic seizure or not". An EEG cannot tell whether or not you are consciously controlling your limbs. No, wait, I think she's on to something here.
Cavemonster Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,916	__________________ The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON

20th December 2010, 06:23 PM	#16
edona7 Scholar Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 79	The cheapest used EEG kit from used medical device stores costs around $3000. New, they are around $60k or more. I watched your videos, and videos of Michael Jackson - you don't look, sound, or move like he did. I seriously suggest you reconsider going back to your psychiatrist. I don't doubt that you are sincere, but I seriously think you are self-deluded.
	__________________ There is no joy greater than the joy of a contented dog

20th December 2010, 06:24 PM	#17
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,639	oh well after so much hostility i feel bad Hi Kathleen R, welcome to the forum.
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

20th December 2010, 06:31 PM	#18
ftl Student Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 32	Originally Posted by kathleenr Hi everyone. I am channeling the spirit of Michael Jackson. How do you know it's Michael Jackson? Here's an easier, simpler test - record yourself while you're channeling the spirit, and have him tell you something that you wouldn't have otherwise known from the news about him. Quote: I need an EEG Kit that is not so expensive to do at home trials with him channeling in me. I will test this way: He will move me, and my own brain does not function. This should show on EEG. If some brain abnormalities show on EEG, that wouldn't at all indicate anything about Michael Jackson. It would show that your brain is behaving weirdly when you feel weird. Not evidence of the paranormal yet. Quote: I know that the Brocha's area of the brain produces speech. If he can speak through me, and not produce feedback from that area, that is another test we can do. He can also speak his own thoughts without me knowing what he will say before this. We can use a Brainmap that lights up to show if I have activity in the areas that I should have if I were acting or if it were only coming from my own mind. How do any of those tests tie in to Michael Jackson, specifically? Even supposing that, given the EEG, you'd show up as noticeably abnormal... how would that prove spirit possession, rather than something more mundane like a mental disorder? (By the way, if you look up EEG on Wikipedia, it doesn't seem like EEGs would give you the information you're looking for anyway. It seems to be a fairly coarse measure that won't tell you much besides whether you're having a seizure or not. To do the test you propose, I think you'd need more advanced brain measurement techniques. How much do you know about EEGs, to be able to propose and run this test?) Quote: This was not a mind disorder or multiple personalities of my own, this was a real spirit person speaking through me. How can you tell that it's a different person - somebody who was physically elsewhere, and is now with you? Do they say anything about their past lives that you can verify? Quote: He still does this, every day, with me. We are two completely different people. I have a country accent and he has a city public speaking accent. Also, I have diagnosed Social Anxiety Disorder and I could not possibly act on camera, sing, or dance like him, or speak so directly. Knowing this, though people do not believe this is real, because of who he is. Unfortunately, all this tells us is that sometimes you act one way, and at other times you act a different way. How can you tell it's not some variant of Multiple Personality Disorder or something like that?
ftl Student Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 32

20th December 2010, 06:35 PM	#19
Vortigern99 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 5,010	How can you be certain it's not a demonic entity pretending it is Michael Jackson? I understand demons, if they exist, are clever and manipulative in that regard. The demon Pazuzu, in the fictional novel and film The Exorcist, convinced its human host, little Regan McNeil, that it was a friendly spirit named Captain Howdy. Please explain how you can eliminate the possibility that your invading spirit is who it claims to be.
	__________________ "I'm 'willing to admit' any fact that can be shown to be evidential and certain." -- Vortigern99 / Noah D. Henson "One thing we've learned (and the Internet confirms this) is that humans will screw just about anything." -- Theagenes

20th December 2010, 06:36 PM	#20
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,787	Kathleenr, mental treatments can be very difficult. The fact that a two week trial did not have the desired effect does not mean that there is not another treatment that might work, and allow you to live a more normal life. I would suggest that you print out the opening post and bring it to your psychiatrist. If you don't beleive him, show the links you've posted to your trusted family members, I'll bet they will bring you to talk to the psychiatrist.
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,787	__________________ Please pardon me for having ideas, not facts. Some have called me cynical, but I don't believe them. It's not how many breaths you take. It's how many times you have been breathless that counts.

20th December 2010, 06:44 PM	#21
KingMerv00 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA...USA Posts: 14,482	Seems like a abnormally high percentage of channelers channel celebraties.
	__________________ If man came from dust, why is there still dust?

20th December 2010, 07:16 PM	#22
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,444	Originally Posted by KingMerv00 Seems like a abnormally high percentage of channelers channel celebraties. Maybe only celebrities have the kind of high-voltage personalities one needs to break on through from the other side. This OP, and that YouTube video, made me very sad. I can't help imagining what this young woman's family must be going through. It has to be heartbreaking; I hope they find something that works, and a way to convince her to stick with it.
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,444	__________________ Laugh while you can, monkey boy.

21st December 2010, 12:17 AM	#23
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,705	I don't see how an EEG or any kind of device for that matter could ever prove that a person is channeling the dead spirit of another person. Quote: The electroencephalogram, or EEG, measures and records the electrical activity of the neurons in the brain It does not measure spirits or ghosts, because they don't exist. Or at least they don't produce electrical fields. If they did exist and did produce electrical fields, their existence could have been proven scientifically a long time ago.
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

21st December 2010, 12:21 AM	#24
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,639	you know, a lot JREFers seem pretty mean when confronted with woo.
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

21st December 2010, 12:27 AM	#25
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,705	Originally Posted by DC you know, a lot JREFers seem pretty mean when confronted with woo. I don't think I was being impolite. I was being frank. Your own posts were very dismissive.
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

21st December 2010, 12:28 AM	#26
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,639	Originally Posted by Puppycow I don't think I was being impolite. I was being frank. Your own posts were very dismissive. yes mine where. and its pretty counterproductive i think. it will propably strengthen her delusion rather than anything else.
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

21st December 2010, 02:01 AM	#27
Cavemonster Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,916	Originally Posted by DC yes mine where. and its pretty counterproductive i think. it will propably strengthen her delusion rather than anything else. I have given this sort of situation a lot of thought and have come to exactly the opposite conclusion. In years of seeing people who seem to have mental illness or really crazy self destructive ideas, gentle attempts to sympathize and suggestions of professional help always trigger a deeper burrowing in. Attempts to take the idea seriously to encourage honest self testing trigger deeper denial and add validity to a claim. Frankly, one of the few things I've seen change minds at all is cruel peer pressure and merciless rejection of the validity of a crazy idea.
Cavemonster Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,916	__________________ The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON

21st December 2010, 05:34 AM	#28
Bikewer Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St. Louis, Mo. Posts: 9,517	Michael used to hang around the university here. Oddly, he was a thirty-ish overweight black man with a rather angelic smile. Quite demented.... He would tell you quite seriously that he was just about to go out on tour and was going back into the studio shortly thereafter. We'd tell him he had to leave and he'd cooperate willingly....Actually quite pleasant but utterly delusional.

21st December 2010, 05:46 AM	#29
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,444	Originally Posted by Cavemonster In years of seeing people who seem to have mental illness or really crazy self destructive ideas, gentle attempts to sympathize and suggestions of professional help always trigger a deeper burrowing in. Attempts to take the idea seriously to encourage honest self testing trigger deeper denial and add validity to a claim. Frankly, one of the few things I've seen change minds at all is cruel peer pressure and merciless rejection of the validity of a crazy idea. I'd hesitate to assign too much weight to the anecdotal case study of "people Cavemonster has known." While merciless rejection of some crazy ideas (i.e., "ridicule can cure schizophrenia") may actually be effective, I'd be skeptical of anyone who claims to be able to cure schizophrenia with peer pressure. I am not a doctor, but I encourage kathleenr to indulge her loved ones a little longer and revisit one.
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,444	__________________ Laugh while you can, monkey boy. Last edited by bokonon; 21st December 2010 at 05:49 AM.

21st December 2010, 05:46 AM	#30
Lothian Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: https://twitter.com/CV4UK Posts: 10,373	Originally Posted by kathleenr ...Please anyone send me information on how I can rent an at home EEG kit. Thank You, Kathleen. Easy type 'EEG rental' into Google. First hit. Bye.

21st December 2010, 06:03 AM	#31
Cavemonster Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,916	Originally Posted by bokonon I'd hesitate to assign too much weight to the anecdotal case study of "people Cavemonster has known." While merciless rejection of some crazy ideas (i.e., "ridicule can cure schizophrenia") may actually be effective, I'd be skeptical of anyone who claims to be able to cure schizophrenia with peer pressure. I am not a doctor, but I encourage kathleenr to indulge her loved ones a little longer and revisit one. The claim isn't that anything can be cured with peer pressure, it is that rejection is better than sympathy in getting people to realize something is wrong. It is utterly unscientific, but I'm not aware of any studies that show that the earnest pleas of strangers are useful at getting people to therapy. So on that front we stand on the same ground. In social situations most of us tend to work from personal experience rather than rigorous studies.
Cavemonster Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,916	__________________ The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon. -G.K. CHESTERTON

21st December 2010, 06:38 AM	#32
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,444	Originally Posted by Cavemonster The claim isn't that anything can be cured with peer pressure, it is that rejection is better than sympathy in getting people to realize something is wrong. It is utterly unscientific, but I'm not aware of any studies that show that the earnest pleas of strangers are useful at getting people to therapy. So on that front we stand on the same ground. In social situations most of us tend to work from personal experience rather than rigorous studies. Fair enough. I'm fortunate enough (or asocial enough) to have no personal experience with the delusional beyond random encounters with street people. I've encountered several people online whose writing seemed to my completely untrained eye to hint at schizophrenia, and kathleenr strikes me as the latest. I've tried to override my natural inclination to guffaw like a donkey when hearing kathleenr's claims, because it seems mean spirited to mock someone for their disability. I'm no fan of Michael Jackson, but neither the singing nor the "dance moves" on that YouTube video reminded me of the late pop star. It seems likely to me that all that's being channeled is someone's secret desire to be a performer.
bokonon Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,444	__________________ Laugh while you can, monkey boy.

21st December 2010, 07:38 AM	#33
kathleenr New Blood Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 5	Yes this will prove this real, because if I were doing this myself, my brains waves from the area that produce that movement on a human being would show active. I do not think before and during his moving me, so that means that my brain waves would be relaxed with my body moving. There is NO way a human can move with brain activity. I am confident in this, and yes it is him, he stood on on his toes and completely leaned forward his weight and stood upright, the way only he can do it, this is his toe lean move he does after he spins!! He can do a perfect moonwalk in me, and all. I know secret talents he has and secret medical history of his that would confirm him for his family if they ask for it. I know him as a person, so there is no way I could make these claims without actually knowing him.
kathleenr New Blood Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 5

21st December 2010, 07:38 AM	#34
calebprime Somewhat Elitist Parasite Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 7,747	Originally Posted by Bikewer Michael used to hang around the university here. Oddly, he was a thirty-ish overweight black man with a rather angelic smile. Quite demented.... He would tell you quite seriously that he was just about to go out on tour and was going back into the studio shortly thereafter. We'd tell him he had to leave and he'd cooperate willingly....Actually quite pleasant but utterly delusional. Sounds just like that Simpsons episode. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6PWVZDnP1E Originally Posted by Cavemonster The claim isn't that anything can be cured with peer pressure, it is that rejection is better than sympathy in getting people to realize something is wrong. It is utterly unscientific, but I'm not aware of any studies that show that the earnest pleas of strangers are useful at getting people to therapy. So on that front we stand on the same ground. In social situations most of us tend to work from personal experience rather than rigorous studies. I think this is a very interesting question, but we'd need to narrow it down to what works for a particular kind of person, in a particular kind of relationship to the one doing the disapproving or sympathizing, and in what kinds of cases. In some cases where I have acted wrongly, both kinds of reactions have been useful for me. (I'll say no more.)
	__________________ Mr. DeBakey's free, but he's a little bit conciliatory.

21st December 2010, 07:42 AM	#35
Lothian Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: https://twitter.com/CV4UK Posts: 10,373	Originally Posted by kathleenr Yes this will prove this real, because if I were doing this myself, my brains waves from the area that produce that movement on a human being would show active. I do not think before and during his moving me, so that means that my brain waves would be relaxed with my body moving. There is NO way a human can move with brain activity. I am confident in this, and yes it is him, he stood on on his toes and completely leaned forward his weight and stood upright, the way only he can do it, this is his toe lean move he does after he spins!! He can do a perfect moonwalk in me, and all. I know secret talents he has and secret medical history of his that would confirm him for his family if they ask for it. I know him as a person, so there is no way I could make these claims without actually knowing him. Of course until the secret medical history is confirmed by the family you have no way of knowing whether it is the child molester himself or someone else pretending to be him.

21st December 2010, 07:49 AM	#36
calebprime Somewhat Elitist Parasite Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 7,747	Originally Posted by kathleenr Yes this will prove this real, because if I were doing this myself, my brains waves from the area that produce that movement on a human being would show active. I do not think before and during his moving me, so that means that my brain waves would be relaxed with my body moving. There is NO way a human can move with(out) brain activity. I am confident in this, and yes it is him, he stood on on his toes and completely leaned forward his weight and stood upright, the way only he can do it, this is his toe lean move he does after he spins!! He can do a perfect moonwalk in me, and all. I know secret talents he has and secret medical history of his that would confirm him for his family if they ask for it. I know him as a person, so there is no way I could make these claims without actually knowing him. Musicians often feel that they're "in the zone" -- not controlling themselves, but controlled by the music. It's just called "getting into it". Music is often used to go into trance-like states. There's nothing wrong with enjoying this, but you don't have to believe that it is actually Jackson's spirit, and you don't need brain-imaging to enjoy it. Lots of people sing in the shower, or play air-guitar, nothing wrong with it. But it doesn't have supernatural causes. This is a forum where skeptics congregate. So you'll need a thick skin here. If you want to test yourself, a much better test would be to sing in front of a musically-trained person and be open to criticism. To my trained ear, you don't sound like Jackson singing through a female body. You sound like someone who likes his music but doesn't quite have the accuracy of pitch yet. If you keep singing, you may find some ways to take pleasure in it without having to make (unfortunately false) supernatural claims.
	__________________ Mr. DeBakey's free, but he's a little bit conciliatory. Last edited by calebprime; 21st December 2010 at 07:51 AM.

21st December 2010, 08:03 AM	#37
kathleenr New Blood Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 5	He is a male using a female's voice box! I also cannot sing at all!! He can, he can hold notes, and sings with a guitar sound. I cannot sing nor would I ever! I am far too shy to do this. I might as well apply for this. I bought Neurosky's Mindset EEG controled device to test with, and the software I bought called Mindrec that is supposed to read mind waves, did not work. I spent nearly $600 on this set!! Why would anyone spend that much money of they were acting? I only needed info, not input from the world on what you thin this is. I only need supplies. I've got the proof and the spirit. I need to home test it before I get the real one just to see what we can produce and if it is accurate in explaining that I have either a spirit moving me or I am not a normal human. I have been tested with Saphris medicine and it did not work, because I am not Schizophrenic. Anyway, This is just info for you all to discuss among yourselves. I have the gift, the spirit, and I only need help testing it!!!
kathleenr New Blood Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 5

21st December 2010, 08:09 AM	#38
kathleenr New Blood Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 5	He has medical issues that matched some of the issues treated by his known medicines. I cannot just state "He has this..specific medical issue, without a doubt" without knowing the man himself or knowing what that medicine treated specifically.They are more human than you all know. He knows me as a man, but he is an Earth Angel like on the movie City of Angels. It's real.
kathleenr New Blood Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 5

21st December 2010, 08:18 AM	#39
calebprime Somewhat Elitist Parasite Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 7,747	Even if you got an FMRI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functio...onance_imaging it would show normal activity in your motor cortex when you do this. As for the JREF challenge, that is a long process in which you must design a test proving some supernatural abilities. If you are interested in this rigorous process, read the rules, etc. Here's a start, a FAQ sheet. http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/...lenge-faq.html To put it bluntly, no one here has suggested that you are insincere, only that you are mistaken. You may have spent some money on some device. I'd suggest that in the future that you consult with some expert about what would be a more useful device, and save your money, and time. I myself have spent half my life in a musical trance of some kind or other, and it's been the most enjoyable thing in my life. With time, I even got competent at some things musical -- guitar, composition. It's natural to do music.
	__________________ Mr. DeBakey's free, but he's a little bit conciliatory.