In regards to the Coca Cola formula: Is it really impossible to dissect it?

[dropzone]

Taste them. Coke leans to more cinnamon and the citrus is orange. Pepsi likes lemon.

That's simple. The fun comes from balancing the wintergreen, cinnamon, vanilla, and safrole in root beer.

[dropzone]

Originally Posted by tyr_13

I don't like non-diet pop besides Mountain Dew or 7-Up, and even then I prefer the diet.

That is all.

I stopped liking sugared pop decades ago. Too heavy and the corn syrup is inedible.

[MG1962]

Originally Posted by UncaYimmy

Some people don't notice until you point it out. I've done some taste tests with friends (can vs bottle). Most seem to be able to do it, but many I've noticed don't consider it much of a difference ("subtle"). For me the difference is dramatic, and sometimes I won't even bother drinking the canned stuff even though that's what I used to drink exclusively for years. I've also received Pepsi in restaurants when asking for Coke. That, too, is dramatic.

Yeah I live in a pepsi town And in Australia Coke was unavailable for many years except in cans. When bottle poduction began... I was a happy cobber

[Damien Evans]

Originally Posted by MG1962

Yeah I live in a pepsi town And in Australia Coke was unavailable for many years except in cans. When bottle poduction began... I was a happy cobber

At least our Coke is made with genuine sugar though.

[Jensen]

It seems I am the only one here who can't tell the difference between any kind of cola. Coke, Pepsi, light or regular, it's all the same to me...

[Aepervius]

Originally Posted by drkitten

Actually, my understanding is that the formula -- or at least, close to it -- is well-known in the industry.

Coca-cola is actually a product of its own marketing. In blind taste tests, most people prefer the taste of Pepsi, which is why Coke experimented with "New Coke" back in the 1980s, in an effort to find a better tasting formula. The new formula, of course, was basically a Pepsi knockoff.

However, there are a lot of people who have convinced themselves -- through Coke's marketing, of course -- that Coke tastes better, and so if you give them an unblinded test, they'll choose Coke, because "it tastes better." I suspect I'm one of those people myself (although I've never done the blinded test to confirm).

So duplicating the formula (and taste) of Coke and then selling it as "Mother O'Reilly's Irish Cola" would just be a market disaster.

Don't forget it works the other way around too. I can recognise the taste of Pepsi and similar in double blind all the time, because I dislike it. Although it may be more rare than people preferring pepsi in blind test, there are such people . Which can lead to me telling the waiters I wanted a coke not a Pepsi, and the discomfited waiter admitting they have only pepsi. I have more difficulties recognising between coke and other similar copy.

But I'll be ready to admit that I tried it in the first place due to their excellent marketing and cultural impact, in comparison to pepsi (which has got none of both here around).

[TubbaBlubba]

I can tell the difference between coke, light, Pepsi, etc. I just don't think any of them tastes particularly good or bad. I guess I might prefer Pepsi a bit to cola and cola light.

[JJM]

Originally Posted by dropzone

I stopped liking sugared pop decades ago. Too heavy and the corn syrup is inedible.

Originally Posted by Damien Evans

At least our Coke is made with genuine sugar though.

Sitting on the shelf, waiting to be bought and consumed, "genuine sugar" (sucrose) is hydrolyzed into a glucose/fructose mix that is essentially indistinguishable from high fructose corn syrup. http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=6501 They say the conversion is 50% complete in one month, so it should be done in 6 months for all practical purposes.

[Dancing David]

Originally Posted by drkitten

In blind taste tests, most people prefer the taste of Pepsi,

Well, true but then most people prefer MCcafe over Starbucks...
I like the really old Coke from the 1960s... not as sweet as the modern stuff.

[Dancing David]

Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth

@#$% Coca-Cola.... who's working on reverse engineering the 11 herbs and spices?

Here you go, http://www.food.com/recipe/11-secret...copycat-133784

but it doesn't mention the pressure cooker.

[dlorde]

duplicate

[dlorde]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

...
I think there may also be a difference between what people choose in taste tests and what they would enjoy drinking every day.

This is a key principle in food & drink product marketing. In 'Blink', Malcolm Gladwell describes the Pepsi Challenge effect that led to the 'New Coke' debacle. Pepsi discovered that in blind tests, people preferred Pepsi, so they went round the country demonstrating this as a marketing campaign. Coke replicated the tests, with the same results, and were horrified, thinking that Pepsi would surely overtake them in the market, as they were already chipping away at Coke's lead. The preference was only 57% to 43%, but that's important in those markets. Coke made a new sweeter, lighter formula, closer to the Pepsi taste, and tested it on hundreds of thousands of consumers across America. In blind tests, it came out 6-8% better than Pepsi. 'New Coke' was born. But in everyday life, people hated it.

The problem was that all the taste tests were 'sip' tests - just a sip or mouthful to get the taste. Nobody drank a whole can. In a sip test, people generally like a sweeter, smoother product. When drinking a whole can, this can become overpowering or cloying. Old Coke's extra bite and slight harshness was slightly better suited to avoid this problem. 'New Coke' was even sweeter and smoother than Pepsi, and drinking a whole can was unpleasant... gaak!

The differences are pretty small, but this was an incredibly expensive mistake to make, and almost destroyed the Coke brand.

[John Jones]

Originally Posted by JJM

Sitting on the shelf, waiting to be bought and consumed, "genuine sugar" (sucrose) is hydrolyzed into a glucose/fructose mix that is essentially indistinguishable from high fructose corn syrup. http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=6501 They say the conversion is 50% complete in one month, so it should be done in 6 months for all practical purposes.

I don't know about that. We assay for sugars in food 2-3 times a week. The sucrose standard is stored at room temperature in a dessicator, and it keeps for years. In fact, I've never seen it go to 50% hydrolysis.

[Wrathernaut]

Originally Posted by tyr_13

I don't like non-diet pop besides Mountain Dew or 7-Up, and even then I prefer the diet.

That is all.

As I sit at my desk at work, with *Real Sugar* Mtn. Dew, and diet pepsi, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Ah, real sugar dew... Probably the only thing I'll miss about being deployed.

[Nichiro]

Then what is it that makes Coke a better pesticide than other pesticides in India?
http://www.naturalnews.com/News_0005...esticides.html

[Cuddles]

Originally Posted by Jensen

It seems I am the only one here who can't tell the difference between any kind of cola. Coke, Pepsi, light or regular, it's all the same to me...

I can tell the difference between the ones with and without sugar, but I can't distinguish between brands at all. Except for the Panda Cola we had when I was little. It may have claimed to be cola, but it certainly wasn't related to Coke or Pepsi in any way.

[Ethan Thane Athen]

My sister did the Pepsi taste challenge and she swears it wasn't Pepsi vs Coke but Pepsi versus another, cheaper brand (possibly the aforementioned and dreaded Panda cola). Pepsi also made doubly sure of the win by serving the Pepsi cold and fresh (ie fizzy) and the other brand warm and stale (flat). The test itself was blind but she could see the empty bottles behind the counter.

She told them which one was Pepsi (correctly) rather than indicating a favourite.

[Evilgiraffe]

Originally Posted by John Jones

I don't know about that. We assay for sugars in food 2-3 times a week. The sucrose standard is stored at room temperature in a dessicator, and it keeps for years. In fact, I've never seen it go to 50% hydrolysis.

Bolded conditions are somewhat different from a sugar molecule that has been made up into a solution like, say, a fizzy drink. Wouldn't a low pH solution be the ideal environment to encourage hydrolysis of sucrose to its constituent sugars?

[Cavemonster]

Originally Posted by drkitten

Coca-cola is actually a product of its own marketing. In blind taste tests, most people prefer the taste of Pepsi, which is why Coke experimented with "New Coke" back in the 1980s, in an effort to find a better tasting formula. The new formula, of course, was basically a Pepsi knockoff.

Malcolm Gladwell actually goes into this quite a bit in Blink. Pepsi outperformed Coke in sip tests, which later turned out to be misleading. The way we taste a beverage in one sip is very different from the enjoyment we get from finishing an entire beverage. Sip tests tend to reward things like greater sweetness, which can become cloying when one drinks a whole can of the stuff.

Edit: Whoops, should have read the whole thread, beaten to it.

[Emet]

"No Coke! Pepsi!".

[malaka]

Kinda-sorta on topic:

Back in high school (early 90s), my English teacher loved (LOVED) Pepsi. Even his son's name was Brad (the original name of Pepsi was "Brad's drink), although, I think that was coincidence.

At book report time, I decided to research the history of Coke vs. Pepsi (hoping the topic itself would bring an easy A). One of the most interesting things I found was that, on several occasions, Coke turned down the purchase of Pepsi (see On three separate occasions between 1922 and 1933, the Coca-Cola Company was offered the opportunity to purchase the Pepsi-Cola company and it declined on each occasion.). This is sometimes referred to as one of the biggest business mistakes in history, as Pepsi grew to become Coke's greatest competitor.

[OhMan]

Anyone heard of a cola brand known as LA Ice?

It is extremely cheap compared to coca-cola (this is said to be because it loses its fizz a lot quicker then Coke). I also think it tastes much better then Coke and Pepsi.

It is something like (Australian dollars) $1 for 1.25Litre. 80cents when on special. $2 for a 2.25Litre. Coles and Woolworths (supermarkets in Australia) always have the special on that sells two 2.25Litres for $3. Bargain! And it tastes great!

I used to be amazed that it had such a small shelf when compared to the Coca-cola shelf, considering how much cheaper and tastier (perhaps this is an acquired taste?) it was. Though, these days, I am finding it gets sold out more and more! Perhaps people are starting to catch on, hmm?

Anyway, if you haven't tried it - I recommend you do! LA Ice! Liquid sex.

[The Fallen Serpent]

I prefer Pepsi and Shasta Cola over Coca Cola. The after taste of Coke tastes very odd and unpleasant to me. On the other side of it, I prefer Cherry Coke to Cherry Pepsi. Cherry Pepis has way too sweet a flavor to me while Cherry Coke tastes at about the same level as regular Pepsi. I also really liked Pepsi Blue but apparently I was the only one in the world. It is my favorite soda and was only available for the better part of a year. During the time it was out I worked at a 7-11 and had to make the manager keep ordering it since I was the only consumer.

[Accidental Martyr]

Originally Posted by Dancing David

Here you go, http://www.food.com/recipe/11-secret...copycat-133784

but it doesn't mention the pressure cooker.

More from William Poundstone's book, Big Secrets:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_C...rbs_and_Spices

[MG1962]

Yes LA Ice was never that bad a drink - as far as competing with Coke, you have to remember that three of the top ten grocery items in Australia are Coca Cola products

[bokonon]

Originally Posted by The Fallen Serpent

I prefer Pepsi and Shasta Cola over Coca Cola.

For me, there's not enough difference in taste among the three to matter. I usually buy Shasta because it's about half as expensive as Coke or Pepsi, but when the other two go on sale before a big game or a holiday, I'll buy them as well. I always drink them with ice.

[The Fallen Serpent]

Bleh. I find ice in soda ruins the flavor. My preference is for slightly chill soda. As in stored in a dark corner or cupboard. The same with my beer. People think I am odd.

[John Jones]

Originally Posted by Nichiro

Then what is it that makes Coke a better pesticide than other pesticides in India?
http://www.naturalnews.com/News_0005...esticides.html

It's cheaper.

[John Jones]

Originally Posted by Evilgiraffe

Bolded conditions are somewhat different from a sugar molecule that has been made up into a solution like, say, a fizzy drink. Wouldn't a low pH solution be the ideal environment to encourage hydrolysis of sucrose to its constituent sugars?

Yes, but the OP was talking about sugar sitting on a shelf waiting to be purchased.

[KingMerv00]

Originally Posted by Nichiro

Then what is it that makes Coke a better pesticide than other pesticides in India?
http://www.naturalnews.com/News_0005...esticides.html

From your link:

Quote:

What are Coke and Pepsi good for besides cleaning rust off the bumper of your Chevy?

Coke doesn't do that.

[drkitten]

Originally Posted by John Jones

Yes, but the OP was talking about sugar sitting on a shelf waiting to be purchased.

In the context of soft drinks, yes. The sugar is sitting in a low-pH solution of carbonated water on a shelf waiting to be purchased (or in the back of your pantry).

[John Jones]

Originally Posted by drkitten

In the context of soft drinks, yes. The sugar is sitting in a low-pH solution of carbonated water on a shelf waiting to be purchased (or in the back of your pantry).

I may have misunderstood, but I thought the other poster was talking about a dry bag of cane sugar (sucrose) sitting on a shelf in a grocery store.

If that's not the case, I retract my statement as being irrelevant.

[Emet]

Originally Posted by Nichiro

Then what is it that makes Coke a better pesticide than other pesticides in India?
http://www.naturalnews.com/News_0005...esticides.html

There's a little more to that story:

Quote:

Behind the Coke-Pepsi Pesticide Scare
Is India unfairly targeting the soft drink titans because they're outsiders?
(...)
If the companies have been negligent, of course, they deserve to be punished. But so far it appears that they have been singled out because they are foreign-owned. No Indian soft drink makers have been tested for similar violations, even though many people believe that pesticide levels are even higher in Indian-made milk and bottled tea. And while pesticide residues are present in virtually all groundwater in India, New Delhi has largely ignored the problem. "We are continuously challenged because of who we are," says Atul Singh, CEO of Coca-Cola India.
(...)
INCONCLUSIVE DATA? Coke and Pepsi are doing what they can to cap the frenzy. They cite research from labs overseas certifying the safety of their products in India, and say that the data released by CSE are inconclusive. The companies may have a point. Even India's Health Minister, Anbumani Ramadoss, on Aug. 22 questioned the validity of the methods the environmentalists used to test the sodas.

It's also hard to square the outrage when New Delhi hasn't even formalized its own regulations. The levels that Coke and Pepsi are said to exceed—by 24 times—are still proposals that won't go into effect until early next year. And both companies have been strong supporters of new standards. "It's absolutely in our interest to have clear regulations that are scientifically verifiable," says Mike White, chief executive of PepsiCo International. New Delhi would do better to get its own house in order and let Bollywood dream up tales of corporate villainy.

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbi...824_932216.htm

[roger]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

I think there may also be a difference between what people choose in taste tests and what they would enjoy drinking every day.

I've always argued that about the Coke tests. They confused taste with preference. I don't entirely agree that it is just a matter of branding, though of course the effect of the Coke brand is huge (probably the biggest brand on the planet in terms of mind share). Ask me if I prefer the taste of a porter or pale ale and I'll say porter. But I almost always drink pale ale, not because I am stupid or lulled by advertising, but because porter doesn't make a very good daily drinker (for me at least). Certainly a complex porter would win out with me over just about any pale ale in existence - a beer company would switch from pale ale to porter production with great peril if they took those test results as indicative of what people would buy more of.

I can't say I know this is what happened in the Coke tests. But, to me, Coke is more astringent, less sweet than Pepsi, and thus more enjoyable to drink, even if I might pick out Pepsi in a blind taste test if I wasn't a regular drinker of one. That could just be the brand talking, of course

[Monketey Ghost]

Originally Posted by Accidental Martyr

The secret recipe is in a safety deposit vault at the Trust Company of Georgia. It is said only the companies directors can authorize the opening of the vault. In the 1983 book 'Big Secrets' author William Poundstone claimed that Coke's basic ingredients were numbered one to nine and known as 'merchandises' to the company. These were as follows:

1. Sugar
2. Caramel
3. Caffeine
4. Phosphoric Acid
5. Coca leaf extract (with cocaine content removed)and a small amount of cola-nut extract
6. Citrac acid and sodium citrate
7X. Lemon, orange, lime, cassia (a type of cinnamon), nutmeg oils, and probably others
8. Glycerine
9. Vanilla

These are all mixed into carbonated water. The use of the X in 7X has never been explained.
Above from this site:
http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question88742.html
I used to have the Big Secrets book but lost it several years ago.

I had that book!

Author also said that the eleven "secret herbs and spices" in KFC turns out to be just pepper. He paid a KFC worker to get a packet of the stuff for him, IIRC.

[Accidental Martyr]

Originally Posted by Monkey Ghost

I had that book!

Author also said that the eleven "secret herbs and spices" in KFC turns out to be just pepper. He paid a KFC worker to get a packet of the stuff for him, IIRC.

See post #64. Big Secrets was published in 1983. The only spices found in KFC chicken were salt, pepper and MSG. Sander's original recipe may have actually contained 11 herbs and spices but apparently not now.

[Uncayimmy]

Originally Posted by The Fallen Serpent

Bleh. I find ice in soda ruins the flavor. My preference is for slightly chill soda. As in stored in a dark corner or cupboard. The same with my beer. People think I am odd.

I don't think you're odd. I know exactly what you're saying.

[Loss Leader]

Originally Posted by Spindrift

Not quite. The coca is imported by the Stepan Company and the extract sold to the Coca-Cola company.

http://www.uic.edu/classes/osci/osci...oca%20Leaf.htm

That company is the only one licensed to perform the extraction process in the US and it will only sell the extract to Coca-Cola. So, good luck getting your hands on any of ingredient #5.

OTOH, some sources claim that the amount of both coca and cola in Coke is so small, they don't change the taste at all. They remain in the formula because Coke is afraid that they'd lose the ability to market under the tradename Coca-Cola if the ingredients were removed.

[blutoski]

Originally Posted by Ferguson

I read somewhere a few years ago that while Pepsi consistently wins "sip" tests, Coke consistently wins "whole can" tests. Since pepsi has a strong sugary taste, a sip of Coke is virtually tasteless in comparison, but the vanilla-y aftertaste of Coke wins out over the course of a whole can, while Pepsi's sweetness becomes overbearing.

Yes, this is well documented. Malcolm Gladwell dedicates a chapter of one of his books to the New Coke product development taste panel shortcomings that led to product failure. Test sipping is different than drinking.

Regarding the original post... I agree with paiute about using GCMS.

That's what I use when I want to identify undisclosed ingredients in a natural remedy.

[bokonon]

Originally Posted by Loss Leader

That company is the only one licensed to perform the extraction process in the US and it will only sell the extract to Coca-Cola. So, good luck getting your hands on any of ingredient #5.

According to Wikipedia:

Quote:

The plant is the only commercial entity in USA authorized by the Drug Enforcement Administration to import coca leaves, which come primarily from Peru. Approximately 100 metric tons of dried coca leaf are imported each year. The cocaine-free leaves are sold to The Coca Cola Company and Red Bull, while the active ingredient is sold to Mallinckrodt, a pharmaceutical firm, for medicinal purposes.

The Coca Cola Company may have contractually obligated Stephan Company not to sell to another cola maker, or some Red Bull fiend may have slipped some fiction in.

Originally Posted by Loss Leader

OTOH, some sources claim that the amount of both coca and cola in Coke is so small, they don't change the taste at all. They remain in the formula because Coke is afraid that they'd lose the ability to market under the tradename Coca-Cola if the ingredients were removed.

I'm sure this isn't the case. They could market distilled water under the trade name Coca Cola if they chose to. It's a minor marketing point to be able to say it's in there, but as you say, it probably doesn't change the taste enough for anyone who isn't a "super taster" to notice. Still, they're probably getting the mulch pretty cheaply, and (especially given the furor over "New Coke") I doubt there's any reason to be the Coke executive who advocates changing the recipe and dropping such a "key" ingredient.