In regards to the Coca Cola formula: Is it really impossible to dissect it?

[Evilgiraffe]

Originally Posted by John Jones

Yes, but the OP was talking about sugar sitting on a shelf waiting to be purchased.

My mistake. I read it as cola sitting on a shelf.

[INRM]

Wouldn't you just run the whole thing through a gas-chromatograph mass-spectrometer? That would pretty much give you the answer right?

[quarky]

If the formula is a secret, it is the best kept secret of all time, considering how many people over the years have known the secret.

here's a rumor I just started:

when a chemical engineer working for Coke quits, the Coke execs have to kill him, lest the secret gets out.

extracts from the dead engineer's body is what gives Coke its super secret flavor.

[Hellbound]

Originally Posted by KingofMadCows

It would be pretty easy to figure out the formula. The real problem with replicating it is not copying the taste but the viscosity. For example, Diet Coke should actually taste exactly the same as regular Coke but it doesn't have the same "thickness" so it doesn't taste quite right.

Actually, this is not true. Part of Diet Coke's success was because the company did not try to make a diet drink that tasted just like their regular product, as most other cola companies did. They created a whole new flavor for Diet Coke, which was a sweeter, smoother drink than their full-calorie product. And (as I understand it) this ties into drkittens earlier post (which I quoted below):

Originally Posted by drkitten

Actually, my understanding is that the formula -- or at least, close to it -- is well-known in the industry.

Coca-cola is actually a product of its own marketing. In blind taste tests, most people prefer the taste of Pepsi, which is why Coke experimented with "New Coke" back in the 1980s, in an effort to find a better tasting formula. The new formula, of course, was basically a Pepsi knockoff.

As I undertsand it (and I reserve the right to be corrected ), they actually formulated "New Coke" to be a full-calorie drink that copied the flavor of Diet Coke. Diet Coke had gotten to the point where, IIRC, it was close to outperforming their full-calorie product. So it wasn't a Pepsi knockoff, but a Diet Coke knockoff (but, of course, Diet Coke was smoother and sweeter, with a taste closer to Pepsi, so to-may-to to-mah-to).

Snopes has an article on the New Coke debacle that gives the story, with sources listed (http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/newcoke.asp). To quote a relevent portion of it:

Quote:

When all other factors were eliminated, it came down to a matter of flavor. Batteries of well-controlled taste tests showed folks liked the taste of Pepsi better. Seemingly confirming that original Coca-Cola had a taste problem was the popularity of Diet Coke, a beverage formulated in such a way that it ended up with a flavor a lot closer to that of Pepsi than to its parent beverage.

Enter New Coke. When traditional methods of developing a new taste failed, Coca-Cola pulled a reverse on the old method of creating diet soft drinks. Diet Coke was stripped of its artificial sweeteners, and high fructose corn syrup was added in their place. After a year of fiddling with the flavor balances, New Coke was finally as good as the company could make it. It tasted smoother and sweeter than original Coke, more like Pepsi. Sounds like a good idea so far, eh? Well, it sounded like an even better one when the results came in from a battery of taste tests utilizing the new formula. People said they liked the new Coke better than Coca-Cola or Pepsi, and by a significant factor, too. Taste for taste, it was a winner.

[Ron_Tomkins]

The ironic thing is, I`m the thread starter and I don`t even like Coca Cola

[casebro]

100 metric tons of coca-mulch would be ummm Homeopathic dilution in the world's supply of coke syrup. But I guess, if it is important to some 'coke head' here, they could try finding the coke stats fro syrup, like how much of the worlds supply of the syrup is made here, vs bottlers in other countries making their own.

But I also recall hearing that some coke executive claims that there is no longer any coca product in it. And never was either.

But that doesn't mean they don't buy up all of the production of 'mulch' just to keep it out of the competition's hands.

[JJM]

Originally Posted by John Jones

I may have misunderstood, but I thought the other poster was talking about a dry bag of cane sugar (sucrose) sitting on a shelf in a grocery store.

If that's not the case, I retract my statement as being irrelevant

Sorry, my bad. I meant sugar in the cola waiting to be consumed.

[JJM 777]

Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins

the formula is secret... (...) Is there no Compound Dissecting process? Is it actually impossible

But who really cares that another drink must taste 100,00% like Coca Cola? I prefer Pepsi Max anyway. It shouldn't be so difficult to make 100 different cola mixes and then let 10,000 people taste it in 10 shopping malls.

[quarky]

Karl Marx had something to say about commodity fetishism, but we mostly think he was all wrong these days.

[John Jones]

Originally Posted by quarky

Karl Marx had something to say about commodity fetishism, but we mostly think he was all wrong these days.

Karl Max never took the Pepsi/Coke challenge, did he?

[jhunter1163]

I'm a Coke connoisseur. I can tell the difference between canned, bottled and fountain Coke, and I could tell you which fast-food chain you got the fountain Coke from. UY is right about there being differences between the major fast-food chains in taste (I prefer Wendy's myself, it's a little heavier and less fizzy than McDonald's or BK, but that's a matter of personal taste.) I'm not sure why, perhaps variations in the amount of syrup they use, but the differences are there, if rather subtle.

[Uncayimmy]

Originally Posted by jhunter1163

I'm a Coke connoisseur. I can tell the difference between canned, bottled and fountain Coke, and I could tell you which fast-food chain you got the fountain Coke from. UY is right about there being differences between the major fast-food chains in taste (I prefer Wendy's myself, it's a little heavier and less fizzy than McDonald's or BK, but that's a matter of personal taste.) I'm not sure why, perhaps variations in the amount of syrup they use, but the differences are there, if rather subtle.

Wendy's is definitely a bit smoother, but around here it's a little weaker. At an office in which I worked they had a small fountain machine in the break room. I always wanted to get one for home, but I know I'd be sucking down way too much Coke if I did.

[quarky]

Originally Posted by John Jones

Karl Max never took the Pepsi/Coke challenge, did he?

I'm not sure he had to.

[Speedskater]

By fountain Coke, do we mean a old-fashion soda fountain? Where the drinks came in a cone shaped paper cup (with a metal holder)? Where the clerk could add cherry or vanilla syrup to the drink?

[bokonon]

Originally Posted by Speedskater

By fountain Coke, do we mean a old-fashion soda fountain? Where the drinks came in a cone shaped paper cup (with a metal holder)? Where the clerk could add cherry or vanilla syrup to the drink?

No. By fountain Coke we mean Coke that is dispensed in a stream from a machine. This typically means the contents of a pressurized canister of syrup and a pressurized canister of soda water mix to make the final product.

I'm skeptical that there's really a difference between "Wendy's Coke" and "McDonalds' Coke" or "7-11 Coke", unless perhaps the ratio of syrup to soda water is something that's adjustable from one machine to the next. If that's the case, it may be that one franchise specifies different machine settings than another franchise. I am virtually certain that the Coca Cola Company wouldn't formulate different syrup for different customers.

[Modified]

Originally Posted by bokonon

I'm skeptical that there's really a difference between "Wendy's Coke" and "McDonalds' Coke" or "7-11 Coke", unless perhaps the ratio of syrup to soda water is something that's adjustable from one machine to the next.

The ratios certainly vary from machine to machine. This may be unintentional though, and only due to poor maintenance.

I can't drink soda right out of the bottle/can/dispenser without hiccuping (unless I sip it slowly). I rarely drink soda, but when I do at home I either do a high pour over ice or repeatedly shake and uncap the bottle, to let a lot of the CO2 out. At a restaurant, I'll either water it down or wait for some of the ice to melt.

[Uncayimmy]

Originally Posted by bokonon

I'm skeptical that there's really a difference between "Wendy's Coke" and "McDonalds' Coke" or "7-11 Coke", unless perhaps the ratio of syrup to soda water is something that's adjustable from one machine to the next. If that's the case, it may be that one franchise specifies different machine settings than another franchise. I am virtually certain that the Coca Cola Company wouldn't formulate different syrup for different customers.

I don't think anyone is suggesting different formulations. It's a matter of mixture.

[casebro]

Admittedly, my McDonald soda machine experience is out of date, since 1975, but the machines were adjustable. We did the calibration several times per day, and always to the Coke specs. And under the proviso that the soda company could cancel their sale to us if we didn't adhere to their mix guideline. So "I'm skeptical that there's really a difference between "Wendy's Coke" and "McDonalds' Coke" or "7-11 Coke"," because the Coke Co. won't allow their specs to be varied. Like Budweiser, every cup of it has to taste like all the other cups of it in the world.

The biggest variation is probably the amount and temperature of the ice. Lots of 32° ice makes it watered down, a little of 28° ice keeps it full strength.

Plus or minus the temperature of the soda on it's way out of the machine. McDonald's carbonation system was in the basement, where water was chilled and carbonated, them pumped up to the dispensing machine. Everything was controlled so far as temps and pressure- at the carbonator. And the 40 feet of tubing to the dispenser was insulated. But the temp at the cup would vary by flow- high flow at mealtimes, colder soda. Low flow between meal time rushes, warmer soda, meaning ice melts more, meaner water-ier in the straw.

[Rodney]

Originally Posted by Hellbound

Snopes has an article on the New Coke debacle that gives the story, with sources listed (http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/newcoke.asp)

The Snopes article misses the point, which is: Classic Coke has a distinctive taste, which New Coke lacks. While more individuals preferred New Coke in blind taste tests, these individuals were predominantly non-Coke loyalists who would not necessarily buy New Coke. The Coca Cola Company's reliance on blind taste tests of all soft drink consumers was about as logical as would be Sirius Satellite Radio's relying on a survey of all radio listeners as to whether they prefer a format devoted to Howard Stern or one featuring a bland mix of music, news, sports, and weather.

[TubbaBlubba]

Originally Posted by Rodney

The Snopes article misses the point, which is: Classic Coke has a distinctive taste, which New Coke lacks. While more individuals preferred New Coke in blind taste tests, these individuals were predominantly non-Coke loyalists who would not necessarily buy New Coke. The Coca Cola Company's reliance on blind taste tests of all soft drink consumers was about as logical as would be Sirius Satellite Radio's relying on a survey of all radio listeners as to whether they prefer a format devoted to Howard Stern or one featuring a bland mix of music, news, sports, and weather.

I doubt Coke cares nearly as much about the people who drink eighty cans a day as the casual person who orders a glass of coke while eating lunch or something. The former are a minority.

[Rodney]

Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba

I doubt Coke cares nearly as much about the people who drink eighty cans a day as the casual person who orders a glass of coke while eating lunch or something. The former are a minority.

I certainly hope that "people who drink eighty cans a day" are a minority. But by Coke loyalists, I was referring to those who have a strong preference for Coke over other soft drinks, irrespective of whether they drink a lot or a little. Non-Coke loyalists, on the other hand, may consume a lot of soft drinks, but they base their purchase decisions more on price than brand loyalty. By the way, the great majority of the restaurants that I've been to offer only one regular cola and one diet cola. So, if you can get Coke and Diet Coke at a particular restaurant, you can't get Pepsi and Diet Pepsi there, and vice-versa.

[drkitten]

Originally Posted by Rodney

I certainly hope that "people who drink eighty cans a day" are a minority. But by Coke loyalists, I was referring to those who have a strong preference for Coke over other soft drinks, irrespective of whether they drink a lot or a little. Non-Coke loyalists, on the other hand, may consume a lot of soft drinks, but they base their purchase decisions more on price than brand loyalty.

... which is why Coke was trying to change the formula, in an effort to get new Coke drinkers to start to display brand loyalty. The idea was that if New Coke tasted significantly better than Pepsi (and, for that matter, than old Coke), then the old Coke drinkers would switch en masse, many of the Pepsi drinkers would switch due to taste preference, and many of the "whatever's on sale" crowd would discover that New Coke actually did taste enough better that it's worth seeking out.

You mustn't assume that brand loyalty can't be developed. Indeed, that's what most market research is about -- figuring out how to develop and maintain brand loyalty.

[quarky]

Threads like this make me feel kind-of squeemish about being a modern human.

In some African countries, Coke is called "Pepsi".
it is obscenely expensive, hence, a display of virility, not unlike the bower-bird.

If i wasn't a hippy, I would beat up all the members here for even considering a brand loyalty thing, over something so disgracefully irrelevant in these troubled times.

WTF is up with this?

Sweet carbonated expensive caffeinated crap is hardly worthy of the whole gourmet fetish, is it?

Ethanol and caffeine suffer from this nonsense.

This is the one good thing about illegal drugs:

Nobody wants their heroin or coke diluted with spring water and blue bottles; at 10 times the price.

McAcid, for instance, at $10/bucks a pop, that didn't make you trip, is worse than expensive food with no nutrition.

[Rodney]

Originally Posted by drkitten

... which is why Coke was trying to change the formula, in an effort to get new Coke drinkers to start to display brand loyalty. The idea was that if New Coke tasted significantly better than Pepsi (and, for that matter, than old Coke), then the old Coke drinkers would switch en masse, many of the Pepsi drinkers would switch due to taste preference, and many of the "whatever's on sale" crowd would discover that New Coke actually did taste enough better that it's worth seeking out.

You mustn't assume that brand loyalty can't be developed. Indeed, that's what most market research is about -- figuring out how to develop and maintain brand loyalty.

The reason so many people are loyal to Classic Coke is its distinctive taste. New Coke does not have a distinctive taste and so it could never achieve Classic Coke's brand loyalty, no matter how much money was spent advertising it. It's the same principle that applies to Howard Stern vis-a-vis bland music, news, sports, and weather radio. Most people can't stand Stern and he would be crushed in the ratings if there were only two radio options, with the alternative to Stern in each market being the bland station. But because Stern has a large number of loyal listeners and there are dozens of options in each market, Stern is the highest paid radio host.

[Speedskater]

I was surprised when this subject came up at our family Christmas gathering. One nephew is planning on getting a DIY cola making machine for his family ($100). They had a long discussion on the taste of different colas and other soft drinks. (I didn't even need to encourage or try to direct that conversation). Another nephew managed McDonald's some years ago, he reports that McDonald's employees adjusted the dispensers rather than Coke employees.

[RVM45]

I like Coke; and I like Pepsi.

I can tell a subtle difference in the taste; I prefer Coke--yet I end up buying five Pepsis for every Coke that I buy. It is simple--At my main Grocer, the two-liter Pepsi bottles are discounted much more often than the Cokes. I don't prefer Coke strongly enough to spend 30-40 cents more , per two liter for it.

{It is now 10:34 Central Standard Time: Have you Cursed the Metric System yet today? Wouldn't want to let a day go past without Damning it.}

I must say though, that we have a Regional Product here in The Nation that puts both Pepsi And Coke to Shame.

Double Cola: It is available in the Southern part of the Indiana Nation; the Western third of the Kentucky Nation; and several surrounding US States.....

And surprisingly, it is also produced and bottled in some Third World Countries. My father and I once spotted a "Double Cola" Billboard in the slums of Bogota--on a Discovery Channel Travel Show.

O they were so much better when they were made with real sugar, and came in returnable Glass Bottles {Double kept the returnable bottles for several years after those two "Brand X" Colas--Coke and Pepsi--had thrown in the towel.}

Now the company is owned by some dudes in England--and availability is rather spotty.

Anyway, I read of a Taste-Test (or Psychology Test--don't rightly remember); where they made some Suckers with enough Sugar to make them Sweet--and just enough Lemon Extract to make them have a rather faint suggestion of a taste.....

Then they colored them all different colors, and asked people to guess the flavor.

People with a Red sucker guessed Cherry or strawberry. People with a Purple sucker thought they tasted Grape--Yellow for Lemon; Orange for Orange; Green for Lime.....But they were all just the very insipid Lemon and Sugar flavored.

Cool.

Then I read that despite the extract of Cola Nuts being added, most Colas would be clear if they weren't given Caramel Colored food Coloring.

I always wanted to try a Clear Cola--Just to see how much expectation played with the Taste. I was rather pleased at the idea of Clear Pepsi--the early advertising led me to believe that it was just "Pepsi" without it being in Caramel Colored Drag.....

But somewhere along the line, Clear Pepsi became a whole other drink.

Which leads me to: "Double Cola" had a sister Cola named "Ski". It was a Citrus/Yellow Cola--Comparable to "Mountain Dew" or "Meller Yeller"--Though older than either.

Apparently Ski has become very popular Lately. I understand that the Brits sold the Bottling Rights to "RC" For far more than they payed for the whole Double Cola company.

Thing is, many years ago i discovered that pouring some pure concentrated Real Lemon into a Double Cola made a very Stomach-Settling beverage during times of acid stomach; heartburn; reflux--etc.

I always thought that the taste was reminiscent of Something.....

Then one hot Summer's day, I bought a Ski from an RC machine--and it hit me-- "Ski" taste very similar to what you'd get, if you poured a couple ounces of Real Lemon into a Double Cola.....

.....RVM45

[TraneWreck]

It's people.

[casebro]

And there were the taste tests using different letters to control the poll. Instead of A vs B, where most people will prefer A, they used L vs M. Do a pre-poll with different letter choices but the same product, find the combination with the highest variation, and use those letters. Like using the numbers 7 vs 13 ? #1 vs 'F' ? A vs X? But those are probably too obvious, so L vs M did get used.

[casebro]

Originally Posted by TraneWreck

It's people.

Close. "sheeple" fits better.