Colin Powell favors: faith & Bible

Riddick · 8th March 2004, 06:16 PM

In a TV interview this evening, Colin Powell supports faith in God and the articles of our country's founding based on the Bible.

All together now...Atheist shudder.

toddjh · 8th March 2004, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Riddick
In a TV interview this evening, Colin Powell supports faith in God and the articles of our country's founding based on the Bible.

All together now...Atheist shudder.

Gee...a political figure saying what the polls tell him people want to hear. Who would've guessed.

Jeremy

Atlas · 8th March 2004, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toddjh

Gee...a political figure saying what the polls tell him people want to hear. Who would've guessed.

Jeremy

Yeah, and in this White House... Kinda weird.

Yahweh · 8th March 2004, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Riddick
In a TV interview this evening, Colin Powell supports faith in God and the articles of our country's founding based on the Bible.

All together now...Atheist shudder.

More appropriately, Atheists wonder "As long as this country is being run effectively, efficiently, and justly, why should I care what Colin Powell's personal beliefs are?"...

clinttaylor · 8th March 2004, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yahweh

More appropriately, Atheists wonder "As long as this country is being run effectively, efficiently, and justly, why should I care what Colin Powell's personal beliefs are?"...

Even more appropriately, Athiests wonder; "In recent memory, has there been any major politician who has denied the existance of god and remained in office?"

I seem to recall that Mr. Powell was also firm in his belief that there were WMD's in Iraq, but that's another thread for another fora.

Zep · 8th March 2004, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yahweh

More appropriately, Atheists wonder "As long as this country is being run effectively, efficiently, and justly, why should I care what Colin Powell's personal beliefs are?"...

Non-US atheists wonder "As long as the USA, or indeed any country, is represented by genuine statesmen with honesty, reliability, capability, and respectability, why should we care about their personal faith, etc, etc, etc?"

Sindai · 8th March 2004, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Riddick
In a TV interview this evening, Colin Powell supports faith in God and the articles of our country's founding based on the Bible.

All together now...Atheist shudder.

Well, that's one of the more childish posts I've ever seen. Right up there with "hey, this great physics student is a Christian, doesn't that really annoy you atheists?"

Nyarlathotep · 9th March 2004, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Riddick
In a TV interview this evening, Colin Powell supports faith in God and the articles of our country's founding based on the Bible.

All together now...Atheist shudder.

Why should we shudder? Up until he begins to try to force his beliefs on us (which, as Secretatry of State, he is in no position to do), Neither I nor any other atheist I know, would give a flying rat's @$$ if he is a Christian, an Atheist, a Satanist or anything else. In my expereience it tends to be Christians to whom such things matter even if it isn't affecting the guy's job, not atheists.

Hexxenhammer · 9th March 2004, 07:26 AM

What's that Powell is towing there? Oh, yeah. The party line.

whitefork · 9th March 2004, 07:53 AM

How'd he do on the Physics advanced placement exam?

CathodeRay · 9th March 2004, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hexxenhammer
What's that Powell is towing there? Oh, yeah. The party line.

I wonder how big a rope it takes to tow a line?

tdn · 9th March 2004, 08:40 AM

Riddick, isn't there something in the Bible about not flaunting your religion while saying "Nyah nyah I'm better than you"?

whitefork · 9th March 2004, 08:56 AM

Luke 18

18:9
And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

18:10
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

18:11
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

18:12
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

18:13
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

18:14
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

and Matthew 7
7:1
Judge not, that ye be not judged.

7:2
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

7:3
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

7:4
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

7:5
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

hgc · 9th March 2004, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zep
Non-US atheists wonder "As long as the USA, or indeed any country, is represented by genuine statesmen with honesty, reliability, capability, and respectability, why should we care about their personal faith, etc, etc, etc?"

Don't rest comfortably. Colin Powell, though Secretary of State, is pretty far down the foreign policy chain of command. Our foreign policy is driven by visions of apocalyptic battles between the armies of Christ (U.S.) and Satan's minions (Islam).

Riddick · 9th March 2004, 06:59 PM

I'll jus give this a lil bump cause I know you all despise it so much.

Zep · 9th March 2004, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hgc
Don't rest comfortably. Colin Powell, though Secretary of State, is pretty far down the foreign policy chain of command. Our foreign policy is driven by visions of apocalyptic battles between the armies of Christ (U.S.) and Satan's minions (Islam).

So is someone taking bets on the outcome? Is it best-of-seven in the finals?

Personally, I think it's a pity Colin Powell isn't in the driver's seat. He seems to be a realist, and a fair manager and diplomat, regardless of his faith. I've heard much of him over the past few years (saw him interviewed in 1996), and although he has to keep his head down currently, I have a deal of respect for the man.

Oh, and Riddick. Go buy a clue, there's a good lad.

Yahweh · 9th March 2004, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Riddick
I'll jus give this a lil bump cause I know you all despise it so much.

Oh, it burns my tender heart like the fury of a thousand suns... *yawn*

Riddick · 9th March 2004, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zep
So is someone taking bets on the outcome? Is it best-of-seven in the finals?

Personally, I think it's a pity Colin Powell isn't in the driver's seat. He seems to be a realist, and a fair manager and diplomat, regardless of his faith. I've heard much of him over the past few years (saw him interviewed in 1996), and although he has to keep his head down currently, I have a deal of respect for the man.

Oh, and Riddick. Go buy a clue, there's a good lad.

well, i do have a response for that, but upchurch would ban me.

Nyarlathotep · 10th March 2004, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Riddick
I'll jus give this a lil bump cause I know you all despise it so much.

Odd, No one here has expressed any consternation over it. I guess you have to manufacture your victories where you can, though...

DarkMagician · 10th March 2004, 11:42 AM

We aren't whining, despising, or shuddering. What are you smoking?

Riddick · 10th March 2004, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DarkMagician
We aren't whining, despising, or shuddering. What are you smoking?

actually, i've never smoked the stuff you're talking about.

they say i'm missing something.

WildCat · 10th March 2004, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Riddick
In a TV interview this evening, Colin Powell supports faith in God and the articles of our country's founding based on the Bible.

All together now...Atheist shudder.

I'm confused: Which articles of our country's founding were based on the Bible?

Tricky · 10th March 2004, 07:39 PM

What would truly be surprising would be an atheist politician, or at least one who admitted it. Christianity has such powerful control over the US political situation that no public figure dare speak against it. It is particularly revolting to see Christians gloat over how completely they manipulate politicians. But we atheists just accept that this is the way things are. We try to vote for the peson who is the lesser of the sanctimonious panderers.

Heck, I'd even settle for a deist, like Washington or Jefferson or Franklin...

toddjh · 10th March 2004, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tricky
What would truly be surprising would be an atheist politician, or at least one who admitted it.

I think the latter is a bigger deal. Since, as you say, being outspokenly nonreligious is political suicide, all the "amens" and "God bless's" are just par for the course. I wouldn't give odds on which politicians believe what they're saying; it's just a requirement of their job to go through the motions.

Which is why it's even more ridiculous when people like Riddick take it at face value when Powell or some other politician mumbles religious platitudes.

Jeremy

Iacchus · 11th March 2004, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toddjh

I think the latter is a bigger deal. Since, as you say, being outspokenly nonreligious is political suicide, all the "amens" and "God bless's" are just par for the course. I wouldn't give odds on which politicians believe what they're saying; it's just a requirement of their job to go through the motions.

Which is why it's even more ridiculous when people like Riddick take it at face value when Powell or some other politician mumbles religious platitudes.

Jeremy

Hey, you might have a point there.

WildCat · 11th March 2004, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iacchus
Hey, you might have a point there.

Are you serious? You think a politician would pander to the lowest common denominator? Not in my America!

Riddick · 11th March 2004, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WildCat
I'm confused: Which articles of our country's founding were based on the Bible?

Here's one:

Quote:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. - Thomas Jefferson, Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776

Yahweh · 11th March 2004, 08:41 PM

This is for you, Riddick...

From About.com - Church/State Seperation:

Quote:

It isn't uncommon for people to argue against the separation of church and state by pointing to the Declaration of Independence. Some believe, evidently, that the text in this document supports the position that the United States was founded upon religious, if not Christian, principles, and therefore church and state must remain intertwined in order for this nation to continue properly.

There are a couple of flaws in this argument. For one thing, the Declaration of Independence is not a legal document for this nation. What this means is that it has no authority over our laws, our lawmakers or ourselves. It cannot be cited as precedent or as being binding in a courtroom. The purpose of the Declaration of Independence was to make a moral case for dissolving the legal ties between the colonies and Great Britain; once that goal was achieved, the role of the Declaration was finished.

That leaves open, however, the possibility that the document expressed the will of the same people who wrote the Constitution - therefore, it provides knowledge about their intent as to what sort of government we should have. Leaving aside for the moment whether or not that intention should bind us, there are still serious flaws to consider. First, religion itself is never mentioned in the Declaration of Independence. This makes it difficult to argue that any particular religious principles should guide our current government.

Second, what little is mentioned in the Declaration of Independence is only barely compatible with Christianity, the religion most people have in mind when making the above argument. The Declaration refers to "Nature's God," "Creator," and "Divine Providence" - all terms used in the sort of deism which was common among many of those responsible for the American Revolution as well as the philosophers upon whom they relied for support. Thomas Jefferson, the author of the Declaration of Independence, was himself a deist who was opposed to many traditional Christian doctrines, in particular beliefs about the supernatural.

What this all means is that arguments against the separation of church and state which rely upon the language of the Declaration of Independence fail. First, the document in question has no legal authority with which one could make a legal case. Second, the sentiments expressed therein do not support the principle that government should be guided either by any specific religion (like Christianity) or by religion "in general" (as if such a thing even existed).

Nyarlathotep · 11th March 2004, 08:43 PM

Yep, Riddick. That's the only one too. Further that one example has no legal binding. It is neither part of our laws nor part of our constitution. Though you fundies refuse to accept it, our countries founders were, for the most part, not religious men.

Nyarlathotep · 11th March 2004, 08:45 PM

Looks like Yahweh beat me to the punch

Riddick · 11th March 2004, 09:59 PM

Well, I'm in a quandry. It seems I can either believe Colin Powell or Yahweh.

I'm leaning towards Colin Powell.

Agammamon · 12th March 2004, 04:59 AM

Um, isn't Colin Powell the guy who went in front of the UN and laid out a pretty pathetic case for WMD in Iraq? This guy apparently believed in the rather poor intelligence on the subject and I'm supposed to be swayed because he believes in the bible?

Lothian · 12th March 2004, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Riddick
Well, I'm in a quandry. It seems I can either believe Colin Powell or Yahweh.

I'm leaning towards Colin Powell.

That is the problem you have. You have been brought up to believe someone and not someone else. Good and bad. Perhaps they are both wrong, or both right or bits of each.

One day I hope you will be able to lean towards yourself.

It does not matter what Colin Powell thinks, or his wife, or some spotty physics student. Once you are happy with your own beliefs you won’t feel the need to constantly seek confirmation.

wollery · 12th March 2004, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Riddick
Well, I'm in a quandry. It seems I can either believe Colin Powell or Yahweh.

I'm leaning towards Colin Powell.

So you're just going to believe Colin Powell, a politician with a vested interest in saying what's popular, rather than look at the evidence. That evidence being the Declaration of Independence, which makes no mention of Christianity, and isn't a legal document, and the Constitution, which contains no references to Christianity, and only one reference to religion which states that "the Government shall make no law regarding religion". And lets not forget all the evidence about the religious leanings of the men who wrote those documents.

No, you stick with blind faith, go for it.

Suezoled · 12th March 2004, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Riddick
Well, I'm in a quandry. It seems I can either believe Colin Powell or Yahweh.

I'm leaning towards Colin Powell.

false dilemma.

ADD Boy · 12th March 2004, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Riddick
Well, I'm in a quandry. It seems I can either believe Colin Powell or Yahweh.

I'm leaning towards Colin Powell.

There, there, Riddick... we're sorry we hurt your shallow belief structure.

Iacchus · 12th March 2004, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zep

Personally, I think it's a pity Colin Powell isn't in the driver's seat. He seems to be a realist, and a fair manager and diplomat, regardless of his faith. I've heard much of him over the past few years (saw him interviewed in 1996), and although he has to keep his head down currently, I have a deal of respect for the man.

As much as I hate to agree with you or, care for politicians in general, I have pretty much maintained the same impression myself, and he does seem like the decent sort.

Riddick · 12th March 2004, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ADD Boy
There, there, Riddick... we're sorry we hurt your shallow belief structure.

hey, it's no problem, i know 50% of the posters here are punks anyway.

btw, calvin coolidge kept a bible on his table at home.

Yahweh · 12th March 2004, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Riddick
Well, I'm in a quandry. It seems I can either believe Colin Powell or Yahweh.

I'm leaning towards Colin Powell.

Its because I changed my avatar isnt it? I'm so much prettier than Colin Powell just about every day of the week. Hmph!

Is there any reason why you lean towards Colin Powell?

Riddick · 12th March 2004, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lothian
That is the problem you have. You have been brought up to believe someone and not someone else. Good and bad. Perhaps they are both wrong, or both right or bits of each.

One day I hope you will be able to lean towards yourself.

It does not matter what Colin Powell thinks, or his wife, or some spotty physics student. Once you are happy with your own beliefs you won’t feel the need to constantly seek confirmation.

Am I so different from you? Do you not feel the need to constantly seek confirmation of your own beliefs?...?...?...?

I think we are more alike than you think. It is your wish that I am crawling around on my knees, 24*7, praying to God....well, that's not me.

Tell me, will my world knowledge be opened up if only I believe in myself? Will I then find all the answers to the world? Is our world really that simple?...?...?...?

Tell me, will I understand what is beyond our world? That's a long way out there in space. I don't imgaine that once I have "self" supporting me that I will understand that vast space, to know its limits. You know nothing of its bounds, and neither do I.

I believe in a supreme being, while you do not.

Would you care to make a wager against me?

8th March 2004, 06:16 PM	#1
Riddick Banned Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 867	Colin Powell favors: faith & Bible In a TV interview this evening, Colin Powell supports faith in God and the articles of our country's founding based on the Bible. All together now...Atheist shudder.

8th March 2004, 06:48 PM	#2
toddjh Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: USA Posts: 3,252	Re: Colin Powell favors: faith & Bible Quote: Originally posted by Riddick In a TV interview this evening, Colin Powell supports faith in God and the articles of our country's founding based on the Bible. All together now...Atheist shudder. Gee...a political figure saying what the polls tell him people want to hear. Who would've guessed. Jeremy

8th March 2004, 06:59 PM	#3
Atlas Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,229	Re: Re: Colin Powell favors: faith & Bible Quote: Originally posted by toddjh Gee...a political figure saying what the polls tell him people want to hear. Who would've guessed. Jeremy Yeah, and in this White House... Kinda weird.
Atlas Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,229	__________________ This, above all: to thine own self be true. (Polonius to Laertes) Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available. - (Benford's law of controversy)

8th March 2004, 07:02 PM	#4
Yahweh Ayay ashay ayay Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,029	Re: Colin Powell favors: faith & Bible Quote: Originally posted by Riddick In a TV interview this evening, Colin Powell supports faith in God and the articles of our country's founding based on the Bible. All together now...Atheist shudder. More appropriately, Atheists wonder "As long as this country is being run effectively, efficiently, and justly, why should I care what Colin Powell's personal beliefs are?"...
Yahweh Ayay ashay ayay Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,029

8th March 2004, 07:10 PM	#5
clinttaylor Thinker Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 147	Re: Re: Colin Powell favors: faith & Bible Quote: Originally posted by Yahweh More appropriately, Atheists wonder "As long as this country is being run effectively, efficiently, and justly, why should I care what Colin Powell's personal beliefs are?"... Even more appropriately, Athiests wonder; "In recent memory, has there been any major politician who has denied the existance of god and remained in office?" I seem to recall that Mr. Powell was also firm in his belief that there were WMD's in Iraq, but that's another thread for another fora.
clinttaylor Thinker Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 147	__________________ De-evolution is real, and happening before our eyes. See you at atrophy.

8th March 2004, 07:12 PM	#6
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	Re: Re: Colin Powell favors: faith & Bible Quote: Originally posted by Yahweh More appropriately, Atheists wonder "As long as this country is being run effectively, efficiently, and justly, why should I care what Colin Powell's personal beliefs are?"... Non-US atheists wonder "As long as the USA, or indeed any country, is represented by genuine statesmen with honesty, reliability, capability, and respectability, why should we care about their personal faith, etc, etc, etc?"
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

8th March 2004, 07:50 PM	#7
Sindai Scholar Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 99	Re: Colin Powell favors: faith & Bible Quote: Originally posted by Riddick In a TV interview this evening, Colin Powell supports faith in God and the articles of our country's founding based on the Bible. All together now...Atheist shudder. Well, that's one of the more childish posts I've ever seen. Right up there with "hey, this great physics student is a Christian, doesn't that really annoy you atheists?"
Sindai Scholar Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 99	__________________ I've been working on becoming one of the most quotable members on these boards... so many of the things I say are just signatures waiting to happen... -Yahweh

9th March 2004, 07:17 AM	#8
Nyarlathotep Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 7,514	Re: Colin Powell favors: faith & Bible Quote: Originally posted by Riddick In a TV interview this evening, Colin Powell supports faith in God and the articles of our country's founding based on the Bible. All together now...Atheist shudder. Why should we shudder? Up until he begins to try to force his beliefs on us (which, as Secretatry of State, he is in no position to do), Neither I nor any other atheist I know, would give a flying rat's @$$ if he is a Christian, an Atheist, a Satanist or anything else. In my expereience it tends to be Christians to whom such things matter even if it isn't affecting the guy's job, not atheists.
	__________________ Why stay sane in a sick world?

9th March 2004, 07:26 AM	#9
Hexxenhammer Malleus Malefactorum Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,124	What's that Powell is towing there? Oh, yeah. The party line.
	__________________ Georgia's board of education approved the plan that allows teachers to keep using the word 'Evolution' when teaching biology. Though, as a compromise, dinosaurs are now called 'Jesus Horses.'--Jimmy Fallon on Weekend Update "I mean, if you buy into a religion, you're pretty much kissing good by(sic) critical thinking, aren't you?" --Riddick. Amen to that, brother. Gamers! Ultimate RPG Thread has a new home at skepticalcommunity! Check it out!

9th March 2004, 07:53 AM	#10
whitefork None of the above Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: aka kullervo Posts: 2,339	How'd he do on the Physics advanced placement exam?
	__________________ Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies - Nietzsche

9th March 2004, 08:00 AM	#11
CathodeRay Muse Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 837	Quote: Originally posted by Hexxenhammer What's that Powell is towing there? Oh, yeah. The party line. I wonder how big a rope it takes to tow a line?
CathodeRay Muse Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 837	__________________ There are two kinds of statistics, the kind you look up and the kind you make up. - RS

9th March 2004, 08:40 AM	#12
tdn Thinker Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 246	Riddick, isn't there something in the Bible about not flaunting your religion while saying "Nyah nyah I'm better than you"?
tdn Thinker Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 246

9th March 2004, 08:56 AM	#13
whitefork None of the above Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: aka kullervo Posts: 2,339	The devil quote for his own purposes, verily Luke 18 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. and Matthew 7 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
	__________________ Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies - Nietzsche

9th March 2004, 08:58 AM	#14
hgc Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 12,991	Re: Re: Re: Colin Powell favors: faith & Bible Quote: Originally posted by Zep Non-US atheists wonder "As long as the USA, or indeed any country, is represented by genuine statesmen with honesty, reliability, capability, and respectability, why should we care about their personal faith, etc, etc, etc?" Don't rest comfortably. Colin Powell, though Secretary of State, is pretty far down the foreign policy chain of command. Our foreign policy is driven by visions of apocalyptic battles between the armies of Christ (U.S.) and Satan's minions (Islam).
	__________________ Bowel-shaking earthquakes of doubt and remorse assail him and wail him with monster truck force. - Cake, The Distance Was there a second singer on the grassy Knowles? - Stephen Colbert

9th March 2004, 06:59 PM	#15
Riddick Banned Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 867	I'll jus give this a lil bump cause I know you all despise it so much.

9th March 2004, 07:17 PM	#16
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985	Re: Re: Re: Re: Colin Powell favors: faith & Bible Quote: Originally posted by hgc Don't rest comfortably. Colin Powell, though Secretary of State, is pretty far down the foreign policy chain of command. Our foreign policy is driven by visions of apocalyptic battles between the armies of Christ (U.S.) and Satan's minions (Islam). So is someone taking bets on the outcome? Is it best-of-seven in the finals? Personally, I think it's a pity Colin Powell isn't in the driver's seat. He seems to be a realist, and a fair manager and diplomat, regardless of his faith. I've heard much of him over the past few years (saw him interviewed in 1996), and although he has to keep his head down currently, I have a deal of respect for the man. Oh, and Riddick. Go buy a clue, there's a good lad.
Zep Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 26,985

9th March 2004, 07:42 PM	#17
Yahweh Ayay ashay ayay Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,029	Quote: Originally posted by Riddick I'll jus give this a lil bump cause I know you all despise it so much. Oh, it burns my tender heart like the fury of a thousand suns... yawn
Yahweh Ayay ashay ayay Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,029

9th March 2004, 07:49 PM	#18
Riddick Banned Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 867	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Colin Powell favors: faith & Bible Quote: Originally posted by Zep So is someone taking bets on the outcome? Is it best-of-seven in the finals? Personally, I think it's a pity Colin Powell isn't in the driver's seat. He seems to be a realist, and a fair manager and diplomat, regardless of his faith. I've heard much of him over the past few years (saw him interviewed in 1996), and although he has to keep his head down currently, I have a deal of respect for the man. Oh, and Riddick. Go buy a clue, there's a good lad. well, i do have a response for that, but upchurch would ban me.

10th March 2004, 11:28 AM	#19
Nyarlathotep Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 7,514	Quote: Originally posted by Riddick I'll jus give this a lil bump cause I know you all despise it so much. Odd, No one here has expressed any consternation over it. I guess you have to manufacture your victories where you can, though...
	__________________ Why stay sane in a sick world?

10th March 2004, 11:42 AM	#20
DarkMagician Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 1,539	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Colin Powell favors: faith & Bible We aren't whining, despising, or shuddering. What are you smoking?
	__________________ Sometimes going by "Nyke" \| "Pascal's Wager: Believe in Unicorns, or one might kick you in the nads!" \| "There is no hope for humanity. Reason is dead and we dance on the corpse. Tra la la la la!" --c4ts \| Intelligent Design & Expelled Exposed \| I'm on dial-up. If you want to reply to me, summarize please.

10th March 2004, 07:24 PM	#21
Riddick Banned Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 867	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Colin Powell favors: faith & Bible Quote: Originally posted by DarkMagician We aren't whining, despising, or shuddering. What are you smoking? actually, i've never smoked the stuff you're talking about. they say i'm missing something.

10th March 2004, 07:37 PM	#22
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,015	Re: Colin Powell favors: faith & Bible Quote: Originally posted by Riddick In a TV interview this evening, Colin Powell supports faith in God and the articles of our country's founding based on the Bible. All together now...Atheist shudder. I'm confused: Which articles of our country's founding were based on the Bible?

10th March 2004, 07:39 PM	#23
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,346	What would truly be surprising would be an atheist politician, or at least one who admitted it. Christianity has such powerful control over the US political situation that no public figure dare speak against it. It is particularly revolting to see Christians gloat over how completely they manipulate politicians. But we atheists just accept that this is the way things are. We try to vote for the peson who is the lesser of the sanctimonious panderers. Heck, I'd even settle for a deist, like Washington or Jefferson or Franklin...

10th March 2004, 07:53 PM	#24
toddjh Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: USA Posts: 3,252	Quote: Originally posted by Tricky What would truly be surprising would be an atheist politician, or at least one who admitted it. I think the latter is a bigger deal. Since, as you say, being outspokenly nonreligious is political suicide, all the "amens" and "God bless's" are just par for the course. I wouldn't give odds on which politicians believe what they're saying; it's just a requirement of their job to go through the motions. Which is why it's even more ridiculous when people like Riddick take it at face value when Powell or some other politician mumbles religious platitudes. Jeremy

11th March 2004, 07:32 PM	#25
Iacchus Suspended Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 10,085	Quote: Originally posted by toddjh I think the latter is a bigger deal. Since, as you say, being outspokenly nonreligious is political suicide, all the "amens" and "God bless's" are just par for the course. I wouldn't give odds on which politicians believe what they're saying; it's just a requirement of their job to go through the motions. Which is why it's even more ridiculous when people like Riddick take it at face value when Powell or some other politician mumbles religious platitudes. Jeremy Hey, you might have a point there.

11th March 2004, 07:55 PM	#26
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,015	Quote: Originally posted by Iacchus Hey, you might have a point there. Are you serious? You think a politician would pander to the lowest common denominator? Not in my America!

11th March 2004, 08:30 PM	#27
Riddick Banned Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 867	Re: Re: Colin Powell favors: faith & Bible Quote: Originally posted by WildCat I'm confused: Which articles of our country's founding were based on the Bible? Here's one: Quote: When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. - Thomas Jefferson, Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776

11th March 2004, 08:41 PM	#28
Yahweh Ayay ashay ayay Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,029	This is for you, Riddick... From About.com - Church/State Seperation: Quote: It isn't uncommon for people to argue against the separation of church and state by pointing to the Declaration of Independence. Some believe, evidently, that the text in this document supports the position that the United States was founded upon religious, if not Christian, principles, and therefore church and state must remain intertwined in order for this nation to continue properly. There are a couple of flaws in this argument. For one thing, the Declaration of Independence is not a legal document for this nation. What this means is that it has no authority over our laws, our lawmakers or ourselves. It cannot be cited as precedent or as being binding in a courtroom. The purpose of the Declaration of Independence was to make a moral case for dissolving the legal ties between the colonies and Great Britain; once that goal was achieved, the role of the Declaration was finished. That leaves open, however, the possibility that the document expressed the will of the same people who wrote the Constitution - therefore, it provides knowledge about their intent as to what sort of government we should have. Leaving aside for the moment whether or not that intention should bind us, there are still serious flaws to consider. First, religion itself is never mentioned in the Declaration of Independence. This makes it difficult to argue that any particular religious principles should guide our current government. Second, what little is mentioned in the Declaration of Independence is only barely compatible with Christianity, the religion most people have in mind when making the above argument. The Declaration refers to "Nature's God," "Creator," and "Divine Providence" - all terms used in the sort of deism which was common among many of those responsible for the American Revolution as well as the philosophers upon whom they relied for support. Thomas Jefferson, the author of the Declaration of Independence, was himself a deist who was opposed to many traditional Christian doctrines, in particular beliefs about the supernatural. What this all means is that arguments against the separation of church and state which rely upon the language of the Declaration of Independence fail. First, the document in question has no legal authority with which one could make a legal case. Second, the sentiments expressed therein do not support the principle that government should be guided either by any specific religion (like Christianity) or by religion "in general" (as if such a thing even existed).
Yahweh Ayay ashay ayay Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,029

11th March 2004, 08:43 PM	#29
Nyarlathotep Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 7,514	Yep, Riddick. That's the only one too. Further that one example has no legal binding. It is neither part of our laws nor part of our constitution. Though you fundies refuse to accept it, our countries founders were, for the most part, not religious men.
	__________________ Why stay sane in a sick world?

11th March 2004, 08:45 PM	#30
Nyarlathotep Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 7,514	Looks like Yahweh beat me to the punch
	__________________ Why stay sane in a sick world?

11th March 2004, 09:59 PM	#31
Riddick Banned Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 867	Well, I'm in a quandry. It seems I can either believe Colin Powell or Yahweh. I'm leaning towards Colin Powell.

12th March 2004, 04:59 AM	#32
Agammamon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,385	Um, isn't Colin Powell the guy who went in front of the UN and laid out a pretty pathetic case for WMD in Iraq? This guy apparently believed in the rather poor intelligence on the subject and I'm supposed to be swayed because he believes in the bible?
	__________________ It will be a great day when the US Air Force has all the bombs it needs and the NEA has to hold a bake sale in order to pay its lobbyists.

12th March 2004, 05:17 AM	#33
Lothian Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: https://twitter.com/CV4UK Posts: 10,373	Quote: Originally posted by Riddick Well, I'm in a quandry. It seems I can either believe Colin Powell or Yahweh. I'm leaning towards Colin Powell. That is the problem you have. You have been brought up to believe someone and not someone else. Good and bad. Perhaps they are both wrong, or both right or bits of each. One day I hope you will be able to lean towards yourself. It does not matter what Colin Powell thinks, or his wife, or some spotty physics student. Once you are happy with your own beliefs you won’t feel the need to constantly seek confirmation.

12th March 2004, 05:21 AM	#34
wollery Protected by Samurai Hedgehogs! TLA Winner Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Land of Eternal Hope Posts: 10,311	Quote: Originally posted by Riddick Well, I'm in a quandry. It seems I can either believe Colin Powell or Yahweh. I'm leaning towards Colin Powell. So you're just going to believe Colin Powell, a politician with a vested interest in saying what's popular, rather than look at the evidence. That evidence being the Declaration of Independence, which makes no mention of Christianity, and isn't a legal document, and the Constitution, which contains no references to Christianity, and only one reference to religion which states that "the Government shall make no law regarding religion". And lets not forget all the evidence about the religious leanings of the men who wrote those documents. No, you stick with blind faith, go for it.
	__________________ "You're a sick SOB. You know that, Wollery?" - Roadtoad "Just think how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!" --George Carlin

12th March 2004, 06:02 AM	#35
Suezoled Mentally Interesting Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 4,588	Quote: Originally posted by Riddick Well, I'm in a quandry. It seems I can either believe Colin Powell or Yahweh. I'm leaning towards Colin Powell. false dilemma.
	__________________ "We must always fear the wicked. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men." -priest guy from Boondock Saints "And we'll no longer memorize or rhyme/Too far along in our crime/ Stepping over what now towers to the sky/ With no connection" -Shins