Magnets

Johnny Pneumatic · 9th March 2004, 02:20 PM

Is the ring floating?

scribble · 9th March 2004, 02:36 PM

Sheesh, how the hell would you tell? Looks like it's just stuck on that cone from this angle. Show me another one.

cbish · 9th March 2004, 02:43 PM

Looks like a bad photoshop job to me!

Johnny Pneumatic · 9th March 2004, 02:52 PM

from here http://www.dansdata.com/magnets2.htm

scribble · 9th March 2004, 02:59 PM

From your quoted site:

Quote:

It'll resist until it passes the tip and then click into place, like this. This feels much the same as forcing a ring magnet onto a rod magnet, but the cone-and-ring combo lets you do a trick

It's not floating, and he says so himself. It's stuck on there. There's a lot of fun you can have playing with magnets. Or so it seems to me - my parents were cheap bastards.

Further note: have you ever tried the ring-magnet onto rod-magnet trick he's talking about? You can shoot those rings pretty good that way with a strong enugh magnet. Switching to a cone only means you don't have to hold the ring in the sweet spot yourself (because it can't slip back).

teddosan · 9th March 2004, 03:01 PM

The magnet is not floating. Go back and read the website. They make no claim that the magnet is floating...

TillEulenspiegel · 9th March 2004, 03:12 PM

RE magnets are no big deal anymore.
If you want to see somthing spooky look up superconductor Maglev. The "superconductors are not even conducting metal but ceramics , sounds like Woo-Woo but it's not.

Edit to add link:http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...ds/maglev.html

scribble · 9th March 2004, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TillEulenspiegel
Edit to add link:http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...ds/maglev.html [/b]

Nice explanation at the link, too. Wish I had one of those to play with instead of the RE magnets...

Johnny Pneumatic · 9th March 2004, 03:35 PM

I'm buying one of these

EdipisReks · 9th March 2004, 06:50 PM

www.dansdata.com is a GREAT website, and dan himself is a skeptic and has been involved in debunking devices like "free energy machines" and such in Australia.

EdipisReks · 9th March 2004, 06:57 PM

bewareofdogmas, please remove the pictures and rehost them yourself. stealing other peoples bandwidith is a no-no.

Quixote · 9th March 2004, 07:26 PM

Anybody can levitate magnets. But levitating frogs, that's impressive.

http://www.hfml.sci.kun.nl/froglev.html

Brian · 9th March 2004, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bewareofdogmas
I'm buying one of these

If that puppy is neodymium, try not to lose any fingers!

scribble · 9th March 2004, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brian

If that puppy is neodymium, try not to lose any fingers!

The author of the website mentions this too, but it really can't be stressed enough. These aren't your momma's fridge magnets, by a longshot.

davidhorman · 10th March 2004, 02:09 AM

I'd like to build one of those magnetic "rail gun" things. X is a magnet and O is a ball bearing:

O XO XO XO XO XO XO XO XO

You push the leftmost ball against the nearest magnet. It imparts it's momentum to the ball on the other side, which leaves the magnet and moves toward the next, gaining momentum from the magnetic attraction. And so on, and so forth, until the ball at the end leaves at high velocity.

Found it on a website, can't remember where.

David

scribble · 10th March 2004, 03:07 AM

Hrm... the railguns I'm familiar with - here's an example (I put "railgun" into google and hit "I'm feeling lucky.")

http://www.railgun.org/

...don't work like that at all. In fact, unless you're talking about some rapidly-switched electromagnets, I can't see how the device you describe could work to add more force than you could with a single magnet (like in the above cone example).

(Edited to add: in fact, what your proposing there looks suspiciously like a perpetual motion machine...)

Quote:

Why are there no magnets around the rails? -
The magnetic field in a true railgun is induced by the current in the rails, not by the application of exterior field.

There's no magnets in your typical railgun.

richardm · 10th March 2004, 03:18 AM

I suppose you've all encountered the Levitron ?

I got one of these for Christmas. It really is amazing

davidhorman · 10th March 2004, 08:06 AM

Quote:

...don't work like that at all.

Google to the rescue - I knew railgun wasn't the right word. I was thinking of Gauss Rifle.

David

scribble · 10th March 2004, 12:27 PM

Thanks, David-

Gauss rifles are fascinating too. I always thought they worked using electromagnets, not "plain-old" magnets.

That's really fascinating. It took me a little while to see why it's not a perpetual motion machine. Tell me if I'm right - in layman's terms, you'd say that keeping the marble 5/8th of an inch fromt he square magnet is *stored energy?* int he sense that that ball wants to "fall" onto the magnet?

Johnny Pneumatic · 10th March 2004, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brian

If that puppy is neodymium, try not to lose any fingers!

Yeah... http://www.wondermagnet.com/crush.html Ouch!

info on the disc

Composition: NdFeB
Shape: disc
Coating: Nickel Plate
Dimensions: 2" dia X 1" thick
Br max: 12,100 Gauss
Bh Max: 35 MGOe

Wow!

Hamish · 10th March 2004, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scribble
Thanks, David-

Gauss rifles are fascinating too. I always thought they worked using electromagnets, not "plain-old" magnets.

That's really fascinating. It took me a little while to see why it's not a perpetual motion machine. Tell me if I'm right - in layman's terms, you'd say that keeping the marble 5/8th of an inch fromt he square magnet is *stored energy?* int he sense that that ball wants to "fall" onto the magnet?

I was sceptical when I saw David's first post. Of course there should have been two ball bearings after each magnet. There is only energy in the system if for each magnet there is a ball bearing not in the "ground state" (lowest possible potential energy). By spacing the ball bearings such that each is held in place by the magnet behind but not touching it, you can store potential energy in the system. In laymans terms, your description was essentially correct.

Back to the subject of big magnets, I worked with a guy who built an electron spectrometer out of two 1 Tesla permanant magnets. It worked by bending the paths of electrons dependant on their velocity. We had to store the thing at least 3 metres from any monitor screens or magnetic storage media. When it came to putting the thing inside a vacuum chamber, he seemed to forget that the chamber was made of steel. It took three men and a big lever about half an hour to get the thing off the chamber wall.

Brian · 10th March 2004, 07:34 PM

Just a suggestion, you can maybe get better prices on eBay, maybe. I think there's a bunch of people out there with garages full of them, so the price is dropping. I got a 1"X1"X1" cube for $16.00 including postage.

Quote:

Originally posted by bewareofdogmas

Yeah... http://www.wondermagnet.com/crush.html Ouch!

info on the disc

Composition: NdFeB
Shape: disc
Coating: Nickel Plate
Dimensions: 2" dia X 1" thick
Br max: 12,100 Gauss
Bh Max: 35 MGOe

Wow!

ceptimus · 11th March 2004, 07:26 AM

There are some really powerful magnets - of the 'injure yourself if you're not very careful' type inside computer hard disk drives.

If you have a broken drive, or an old low capacity one you don't want anymore, take it apart and get the magnets out. The magnets are on either side of the mechanism that moves the read/write head, to the different track positions (the mechanism swings the heads over an arc of maybe 60 degrees.

The magnets are arranged so the magnetism is almost totally confined within the mechanism - so you won't realise how strong they are till you take it apart.

Watch your fingers! These magnets are easily stong enough so that you can put one on the palm of your hand, and another on the back of your hand, and they will hold themselves there, giving your hand a firmish pinch. When they get closer together than the thickness of your hand, they are powerful enough to give you a painful injury.

Johnny Pneumatic · 11th March 2004, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by richardm
I suppose you've all encountered the Levitron ?

I got one of these for Christmas. It really is amazing

Yet another science gadget I have to buy.

rockoon · 11th March 2004, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EdipisReks
bewareofdogmas, please remove the pictures and rehost them yourself. stealing other peoples bandwidith is a no-no.

It seems to me.. "rehosting" the image would be theft. Linking to the picture is not. Thats what the internet was designed to do.

ceptimus · 11th March 2004, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EdipisReks
bewareofdogmas, please remove the pictures and rehost them yourself. stealing other peoples bandwidith is a no-no.

He couldn't do it now, even if he agreed with you. The new anti-editing policy precludes this.

9th March 2004, 02:20 PM	#1
Johnny Pneumatic Corpuscle Clay Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,089	Magnets Is the ring floating?
	__________________ If we don't play god, who will?-James Watson What the hell is the matter with you people? Get your minds into the gutter!-Dorian Gray Good Lord - I've heard about this - cat juggling! Stop! Stop! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Good. Father, could there be a God that would let this happen?- Navin R. Johnson, The Jerk There is nothing to believe in. There's no need to believe...There is nothing to believe in in this world. -Vicious, Cowboy Bebop

9th March 2004, 02:36 PM	#2
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	Sheesh, how the hell would you tell? Looks like it's just stuck on that cone from this angle. Show me another one.
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	__________________ "Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson "I was thinking about painting my house, but I was worried about how well the latex paint we bought would bond to the existing siding. So I got on the Interweb and searched for latex bondage."

9th March 2004, 02:43 PM	#3
cbish Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Nevada City, CA Posts: 1,229	Looks like a bad photoshop job to me!
	__________________ You have to live it to believe it! If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for you!

9th March 2004, 02:52 PM	#4
Johnny Pneumatic Corpuscle Clay Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,089	from here http://www.dansdata.com/magnets2.htm
	__________________ If we don't play god, who will?-James Watson What the hell is the matter with you people? Get your minds into the gutter!-Dorian Gray Good Lord - I've heard about this - cat juggling! Stop! Stop! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Good. Father, could there be a God that would let this happen?- Navin R. Johnson, The Jerk There is nothing to believe in. There's no need to believe...There is nothing to believe in in this world. -Vicious, Cowboy Bebop

9th March 2004, 02:59 PM	#5
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	From your quoted site: Quote: It'll resist until it passes the tip and then click into place, like this. This feels much the same as forcing a ring magnet onto a rod magnet, but the cone-and-ring combo lets you do a trick It's not floating, and he says so himself. It's stuck on there. There's a lot of fun you can have playing with magnets. Or so it seems to me - my parents were cheap bastards. Further note: have you ever tried the ring-magnet onto rod-magnet trick he's talking about? You can shoot those rings pretty good that way with a strong enugh magnet. Switching to a cone only means you don't have to hold the ring in the sweet spot yourself (because it can't slip back).
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	__________________ "Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson "I was thinking about painting my house, but I was worried about how well the latex paint we bought would bond to the existing siding. So I got on the Interweb and searched for latex bondage."

9th March 2004, 03:01 PM	#6
teddosan Student Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 44	The magnet is not floating. Go back and read the website. They make no claim that the magnet is floating...

9th March 2004, 03:12 PM	#7
TillEulenspiegel Master Poster Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,310	RE magnets are no big deal anymore. If you want to see somthing spooky look up superconductor Maglev. The "superconductors are not even conducting metal but ceramics , sounds like Woo-Woo but it's not. Edit to add link:http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...ds/maglev.html
	__________________ "God does not play dice with the universe." Albert Einstein "Who is Einstein to tell God what to do?" Niels Bohr Remember, %97.3 of all accidents occur %100 of the time.

9th March 2004, 03:25 PM	#8
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	Quote: Originally posted by TillEulenspiegel Edit to add link:http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...ds/maglev.html [/b] Nice explanation at the link, too. Wish I had one of those to play with instead of the RE magnets...
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	__________________ "Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson "I was thinking about painting my house, but I was worried about how well the latex paint we bought would bond to the existing siding. So I got on the Interweb and searched for latex bondage."

9th March 2004, 03:35 PM	#9
Johnny Pneumatic Corpuscle Clay Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,089	I'm buying one of these
	__________________ If we don't play god, who will?-James Watson What the hell is the matter with you people? Get your minds into the gutter!-Dorian Gray Good Lord - I've heard about this - cat juggling! Stop! Stop! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Good. Father, could there be a God that would let this happen?- Navin R. Johnson, The Jerk There is nothing to believe in. There's no need to believe...There is nothing to believe in in this world. -Vicious, Cowboy Bebop

9th March 2004, 06:50 PM	#10
EdipisReks Custom Title Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The 'Nati Posts: 1,952	www.dansdata.com is a GREAT website, and dan himself is a skeptic and has been involved in debunking devices like "free energy machines" and such in Australia.
	__________________ "Candy to rot your teeth. Bible to rot your brain." --EvilDave (7-24-2003) "I read the Book Of Mormon once. Wasn't it about Uma Thurman, um, thrumming a Theremin?" --epepke (9-22-2004)

9th March 2004, 06:57 PM	#11
EdipisReks Custom Title Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The 'Nati Posts: 1,952	bewareofdogmas, please remove the pictures and rehost them yourself. stealing other peoples bandwidith is a no-no.
	__________________ "Candy to rot your teeth. Bible to rot your brain." --EvilDave (7-24-2003) "I read the Book Of Mormon once. Wasn't it about Uma Thurman, um, thrumming a Theremin?" --epepke (9-22-2004)

9th March 2004, 07:26 PM	#12
Quixote Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 372	Anybody can levitate magnets. But levitating frogs, that's impressive. http://www.hfml.sci.kun.nl/froglev.html
Quixote Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 372	__________________ Per aspersio ad astus

9th March 2004, 07:27 PM	#13
Brian Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,780	Quote: Originally posted by bewareofdogmas I'm buying one of these If that puppy is neodymium, try not to lose any fingers!
Brian Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,780	__________________ O' beautiful, for spacious skies But now those skies are threatening They're beating plowshares into swords For this tired old man that we elected king Armchair warriors often fail And we've been poisoned by these fairy tales The lawyers clean up all details Since daddy had to lie -Don Henley

9th March 2004, 07:44 PM	#14
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	Quote: Originally posted by Brian If that puppy is neodymium, try not to lose any fingers! The author of the website mentions this too, but it really can't be stressed enough. These aren't your momma's fridge magnets, by a longshot.
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	__________________ "Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson "I was thinking about painting my house, but I was worried about how well the latex paint we bought would bond to the existing siding. So I got on the Interweb and searched for latex bondage."

10th March 2004, 02:09 AM	#15
davidhorman Muse Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 984	I'd like to build one of those magnetic "rail gun" things. X is a magnet and O is a ball bearing: O XO XO XO XO XO XO XO XO You push the leftmost ball against the nearest magnet. It imparts it's momentum to the ball on the other side, which leaves the magnet and moves toward the next, gaining momentum from the magnetic attraction. And so on, and so forth, until the ball at the end leaves at high velocity. Found it on a website, can't remember where. David
davidhorman Muse Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 984

10th March 2004, 03:07 AM	#16
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	Hrm... the railguns I'm familiar with - here's an example (I put "railgun" into google and hit "I'm feeling lucky.") http://www.railgun.org/ ...don't work like that at all. In fact, unless you're talking about some rapidly-switched electromagnets, I can't see how the device you describe could work to add more force than you could with a single magnet (like in the above cone example). (Edited to add: in fact, what your proposing there looks suspiciously like a perpetual motion machine...) Quote: Why are there no magnets around the rails? - The magnetic field in a true railgun is induced by the current in the rails, not by the application of exterior field. There's no magnets in your typical railgun.
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	__________________ "Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson "I was thinking about painting my house, but I was worried about how well the latex paint we bought would bond to the existing siding. So I got on the Interweb and searched for latex bondage."

10th March 2004, 03:18 AM	#17
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	I suppose you've all encountered the Levitron ? I got one of these for Christmas. It really is amazing
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.

10th March 2004, 08:06 AM	#18
davidhorman Muse Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 984	Quote: ...don't work like that at all. Google to the rescue - I knew railgun wasn't the right word. I was thinking of Gauss Rifle. David
davidhorman Muse Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 984

10th March 2004, 12:27 PM	#19
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	Thanks, David- Gauss rifles are fascinating too. I always thought they worked using electromagnets, not "plain-old" magnets. That's really fascinating. It took me a little while to see why it's not a perpetual motion machine. Tell me if I'm right - in layman's terms, you'd say that keeping the marble 5/8th of an inch fromt he square magnet is stored energy? int he sense that that ball wants to "fall" onto the magnet?
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	__________________ "Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson "I was thinking about painting my house, but I was worried about how well the latex paint we bought would bond to the existing siding. So I got on the Interweb and searched for latex bondage."

10th March 2004, 03:59 PM	#20
Johnny Pneumatic Corpuscle Clay Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,089	Quote: Originally posted by Brian If that puppy is neodymium, try not to lose any fingers! Yeah... http://www.wondermagnet.com/crush.html Ouch! info on the disc Composition: NdFeB Shape: disc Coating: Nickel Plate Dimensions: 2" dia X 1" thick Br max: 12,100 Gauss Bh Max: 35 MGOe Wow!
	__________________ If we don't play god, who will?-James Watson What the hell is the matter with you people? Get your minds into the gutter!-Dorian Gray Good Lord - I've heard about this - cat juggling! Stop! Stop! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Good. Father, could there be a God that would let this happen?- Navin R. Johnson, The Jerk There is nothing to believe in. There's no need to believe...There is nothing to believe in in this world. -Vicious, Cowboy Bebop

10th March 2004, 04:08 PM	#21
Hamish Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 299	Quote: Originally posted by scribble Thanks, David- Gauss rifles are fascinating too. I always thought they worked using electromagnets, not "plain-old" magnets. That's really fascinating. It took me a little while to see why it's not a perpetual motion machine. Tell me if I'm right - in layman's terms, you'd say that keeping the marble 5/8th of an inch fromt he square magnet is stored energy? int he sense that that ball wants to "fall" onto the magnet? I was sceptical when I saw David's first post. Of course there should have been two ball bearings after each magnet. There is only energy in the system if for each magnet there is a ball bearing not in the "ground state" (lowest possible potential energy). By spacing the ball bearings such that each is held in place by the magnet behind but not touching it, you can store potential energy in the system. In laymans terms, your description was essentially correct. Back to the subject of big magnets, I worked with a guy who built an electron spectrometer out of two 1 Tesla permanant magnets. It worked by bending the paths of electrons dependant on their velocity. We had to store the thing at least 3 metres from any monitor screens or magnetic storage media. When it came to putting the thing inside a vacuum chamber, he seemed to forget that the chamber was made of steel. It took three men and a big lever about half an hour to get the thing off the chamber wall.

10th March 2004, 07:34 PM	#22
Brian Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,780	Just a suggestion, you can maybe get better prices on eBay, maybe. I think there's a bunch of people out there with garages full of them, so the price is dropping. I got a 1"X1"X1" cube for $16.00 including postage. Quote: Originally posted by bewareofdogmas Yeah... http://www.wondermagnet.com/crush.html Ouch! info on the disc Composition: NdFeB Shape: disc Coating: Nickel Plate Dimensions: 2" dia X 1" thick Br max: 12,100 Gauss Bh Max: 35 MGOe Wow!
Brian Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,780	__________________ O' beautiful, for spacious skies But now those skies are threatening They're beating plowshares into swords For this tired old man that we elected king Armchair warriors often fail And we've been poisoned by these fairy tales The lawyers clean up all details Since daddy had to lie -Don Henley

11th March 2004, 07:26 AM	#23
ceptimus puzzler Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,316	There are some really powerful magnets - of the 'injure yourself if you're not very careful' type inside computer hard disk drives. If you have a broken drive, or an old low capacity one you don't want anymore, take it apart and get the magnets out. The magnets are on either side of the mechanism that moves the read/write head, to the different track positions (the mechanism swings the heads over an arc of maybe 60 degrees. The magnets are arranged so the magnetism is almost totally confined within the mechanism - so you won't realise how strong they are till you take it apart. Watch your fingers! These magnets are easily stong enough so that you can put one on the palm of your hand, and another on the back of your hand, and they will hold themselves there, giving your hand a firmish pinch. When they get closer together than the thickness of your hand, they are powerful enough to give you a painful injury.
ceptimus puzzler Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,316

11th March 2004, 09:46 AM	#24
Johnny Pneumatic Corpuscle Clay Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,089	Quote: Originally posted by richardm I suppose you've all encountered the Levitron ? I got one of these for Christmas. It really is amazing Yet another science gadget I have to buy.
	__________________ If we don't play god, who will?-James Watson What the hell is the matter with you people? Get your minds into the gutter!-Dorian Gray Good Lord - I've heard about this - cat juggling! Stop! Stop! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Good. Father, could there be a God that would let this happen?- Navin R. Johnson, The Jerk There is nothing to believe in. There's no need to believe...There is nothing to believe in in this world. -Vicious, Cowboy Bebop

11th March 2004, 11:01 AM	#25
rockoon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,106	Quote: Originally posted by EdipisReks bewareofdogmas, please remove the pictures and rehost them yourself. stealing other peoples bandwidith is a no-no. It seems to me.. "rehosting" the image would be theft. Linking to the picture is not. Thats what the internet was designed to do.
rockoon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,106	__________________ Quality never goes begging.

11th March 2004, 11:20 AM	#26
ceptimus puzzler Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,316	Quote: Originally posted by EdipisReks bewareofdogmas, please remove the pictures and rehost them yourself. stealing other peoples bandwidith is a no-no. He couldn't do it now, even if he agreed with you. The new anti-editing policy precludes this.
ceptimus puzzler Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,316	__________________