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Old 7th December 2012, 07:31 PM   #361
xterra
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Robin,

First, I am glad you have not abandoned JREF.

Second, could you please not quote long posts in their entirety? Deleting most of RemieV's original post would not have diminished your comment.


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Old 7th December 2012, 07:51 PM   #362
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Remie you stated that he paid in cash but I'm curious, you also said that the only people who were allowed to get through were "photographers. Most men I know keep their driver's licence in a pocket with a clear plastic window so they don't have to take it out. When he took it out, to show John Edwards, is that how it was? Also if he purchased anything else in the entire casino and paid with a credit card after he had purchased tickets someone could have seen him. But it would be relatively easy to take picture with a high powered lens.


http://www.ethicapublishing.com/7CH6.htm


Quote:
One means of surveillance incorporates the use of many small cameras, stowed behind one-way glass surfaces to detect fraudulent acts. These cameras are so well hidden that players are typically unaware of their presence. Additionally, the periodic movement of cameras prevents them from being easily identified, thus keeping cheaters on their toes. At this point in time, the cameras have become so high-tech that they are able to see more than just faces; they can actually see player’s cards (Casino Surveillance).

Quote:
Biometrics and Face Scanning

Biometric face scanning is a new technology that is used in casinos as a surveillance mechanism that can link a face with a name – and a personal record. Biometrics is the study of a person’s physiological features and behavioral characteristics. Face scanning is the technology in which people can be identified based on their facial features. This technology works by analyzing a person’s face based on distinguishing features, which include specific proportions and angles that are unique to a person’s face that cannot be hidden by beards, makeup, glasses or hats. This technology recognizes a person by using special security cameras to scan people’s faces and create three-

dimensional images out of multiple two-dimensional scans. The end result is then stored in a database and scanned across the casino records for VIPs, problem gamblers and criminals. If no record is found, the system creates a new account for that person. One of the huge benefits this technology gives casinos is the ability to identify people without having to stop them as they walk through the doors. Dr. Thomas Zielke, vice president of Cross Match Technologies notes, “There is always the question of how to monitor visitors in public areas without significantly limiting access. Identifying the target individuals without denying entry to the unknown public is the key to success, and facial recognition is one of the best ways that this can be achieved” (German Casinos, par. 5). The objective of the technology is to monitor people without disrupting them, but isn’t it important for the visitors to know what they are walking into?

Face Recognition Teams Up With RFID

The use of Face Recognition Systems ties in closely with the use of RFID chips. While the Facial Recognition System creates a profile of an individual, the RFID chips store important data about the individual. Some of this information includes the games that are being played, the amount of money the person is willing to bet and the strategy the individual has been using. All of these statistics are recorded and put into a database that is accessed the next time the individual’s face is recognized. This all leads to more moneymaking opportunities for the casinos. Biometrica Systems, one of the leading providers of face recognition technology to the gaming industry, states that biometrics “[enhances] a casino’s operational intelligence, which can be used to reduce unnecessary losses and drive a more profitable business operation” (Biometrica, par. 1). Casinos have already eliminated losses they used to incur by proactively removing problem gamblers who are identified by the cameras on the casino floor. As a known cheater is identified, a red flag instantly goes off in the surveillance room, signaling that the person is banned from the casino. The casino floor security is notified and the person is immediately removed from the property. With this current level of technology, it is rare that any gambler known to have a prior record of cheating can get any farther than the casino doorway.
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Old 7th December 2012, 07:51 PM   #363
Joey McGee
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Thanks for quoting that long post in it's entirety. I possess a scroll button so it was all good. Nowhere against the rules anywhere and in fact many people do it like that for the convenience of others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Lamar_Keene

http://www.drspeg.com/courses/00-paranormal/tpm.pdf
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Old 7th December 2012, 11:50 PM   #364
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Thanks for the link, Joey Magee.
From the first one:
""The true-believer syndrome merits study by science. What is it that compels a person, past all reason, to believe the unbelievable. How can an otherwise sane individual become so enamored of a fantasy, an imposture, that even after it's exposed in the bright light of day he still clings to it — indeed, clings to it all the harder?… No amount of logic can shatter a faith consciously based on a lie. — M. Lamar Keene and Allen Spraggett"

Am I surprised Robin still clings to her fridge?
No.

Robin, did you listen to the John Edward radio show posted up by fooledmewunz?
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Old 8th December 2012, 12:06 AM   #365
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As if he even talks about true believer syndrome!

It should be said that at the end of the book it is stated that

Quote:
I believe in it. I believe that human beings maintain their individuality after death. I believe that we go on to higher and better expressions of ourselves than those which we are now expressing. I believe that evolution, growth, is the whole thing; mankind evolves, it doesn’t regress. I believe that, in spite of all I’ve seen and experienced.

Extrasensory perception and psychic phenomena?
I believe that the individual can have his or her own private psychic experiences-- that there is such a thing as ESP. But when it comes to paying a medium to do it for you-- beware!

Communication with the dead is something I would urge you to avoid-- I mean even the idea of it, the possibility of it. At least through a professional medium. Trying to communicate with the dead has been the downfall of many individuals, as my story amply and tragically reveals.

There is so much in the real world to enchant you, thrill you, elevate you. Why immure yourself in the darkness of the medium’s cabinet where spirits “peep and mutter” and human folly falls prey to human greed?

I believe in life not death. I believe in light not darkness. I believe in the strength that comes from standing on one’s own two feet rather than hobbling on the clutches of a deluded faith in a fraudulent medium.

Find your own way in the uncertainties of life. With God’s help you can do it.
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
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I think I speak for all of us, who is a fraud, who is a fraud of a fraud, and why the hell do we even think about this. For myself I am amazed at the money they have been able to steal from my family, many others, especially the families of thousands of war veterans during world war two. Houdini comes to mind. Physical mediumship is rare these days, here is an example of a modern one.

http://michaelprescott.typepad.com/m...-thompson.html

agh

There aren't enough Houndinis

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Old 8th December 2012, 12:28 AM   #366
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I understand you all too well, Joey Magee, though I'd never considered the damage done by the psychic industry to the families of servicemen in WWII.

Here's the post which contains the video I mentioned earlier.
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...&postcount=558

And that link of yours is very sad indeed.
More Houdinis, please!
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Old 8th December 2012, 12:36 AM   #367
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No one should ever, ever write a book on the exploits of mediums during the wars after the explosion of Spiritualism, lest it give too many ideas. I already know far, far too much.

Here's one of the worst, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Duncan

That's a brutal video, I've seen John Edward live, it left me with a profound sense of sadness.
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Old 8th December 2012, 01:38 AM   #368
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^
That case of the woman scamming the relatives of the servicemen aboard HMS Barham wasn't new to me, but worth rereading.

You've assisted one of JE's shows?
Would you say his stage demeanour is similar to what was shown in fooledmewunz' video?
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Old 8th December 2012, 03:53 AM   #369
Joey McGee
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I just said I've seen him live, sorry but dunno how you gathered the assisted bit. I had the chance to be there and I went. I did not enjoy myself. I had to leave early because I was so appalled and everyone kept giving me weird looks for being amazed and it was not the time and place to pull up a soap box. But it was exactly the same. He fished so bad it was crazy. It was like, does anyone here have a spouse in that died in the 80s? "Oh me pick me!" there were two hands raised. I laughed out loud and was stared down and just left soon after.

I wrote letters to every producer, manager and owner of that program after that day, all individual, different emails to each, no response. **** sells

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Old 8th December 2012, 04:56 AM   #370
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Once again, my vote is for "or what."
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Old 8th December 2012, 05:47 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by Joey McGee View Post
I just said I've seen him live, sorry but dunno how you gathered the assisted bit. I had the chance to be there and I went. I did not enjoy myself. I had to leave early because I was so appalled and everyone kept giving me weird looks for being amazed and it was not the time and place to pull up a soap box. But it was exactly the same. He fished so bad it was crazy. It was like, does anyone here have a spouse in that died in the 80s? "Oh me pick me!" there were two hands raised. I laughed out loud and was stared down and just left soon after.

I wrote letters to every producer, manager and owner of that program after that day, all individual, different emails to each, no response. **** sells
Sorry! Assisted was an unconscious translation from the Spanish word asistir, to be present or attend.
I was listening to the local news and messed up.
Thanks for sharing your story.
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Old 8th December 2012, 06:45 AM   #372
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No worries! to be expected... But I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition!!!

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Old 8th December 2012, 06:48 AM   #373
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Did you reckon I had you tarted out in sequins and false eye lashes handing objects to that vicious conman on stage?
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Old 8th December 2012, 06:53 AM   #374
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Breakfast will have to wait an extra hour or so until my stomach calms down!

Easy with the mental pictures game, geez!
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Old 8th December 2012, 07:09 AM   #375
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Don't blame me, blame JE!
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Old 8th December 2012, 09:04 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by pakeha View Post
Thanks for the link, Joey Magee.
From the first one:
""The true-believer syndrome merits study by science. What is it that compels a person, past all reason, to believe the unbelievable. How can an otherwise sane individual become so enamored of a fantasy, an imposture, that even after it's exposed in the bright light of day he still clings to it — indeed, clings to it all the harder?… No amount of logic can shatter a faith consciously based on a lie. — M. Lamar Keene and Allen Spraggett"

Am I surprised Robin still clings to her fridge?
No.

Robin, did you listen to the John Edward radio show posted up by fooledmewunz?
Yes, I watched the clip. It reminded me of the night I saw John Edward... I believe that many people who went to the same John Edward event that I did probably left feeling that John was a little "off" that night. After all, John was completely wrong insisting that my brother had a Valerie Harper connection (and even John said it woud have to mean something more for ex. than just liking the show Rhoda!) And John was completely wrong insisting that someone on my side of the room had a BIG tooth in their pocket. John was adamant on both counts to no avail. If any James Randi followers had been there that night they would view those unvalidated (almost ridiculous) statements as being verification that John was a fake! Oh, John did have another "miss"...he insisted that I, my brother (Occam Jr.) , my Mom (and of course my Dad) had a connection to someone with a hard "G" sounding name. Unfortunately John was wrong...we had no connection to a hard "G" sounding name....none, nada, zilch , zero, we're sure,...sorry John. It wasn't until after the event while we were at the restaurant with despicable "Tooth Guy" that I , my brother, and my Mom miraculously made the connection to the hard "G" sounding name....my other brother, Glenn. And of course his son... Gage! Yup. John does have a phrase to describe what happened to us that night...and it does not include any of the words running through your minds right now : )
John calls it "psychic amnesia" and here is a quote by John on a Larry King show that explains it:
"I have coined the phrase psychic amnesia. That is like the sudden and complete deterioration of the brain when I start talking to someone. They completely forget who they are, who they're related to : ), what their name is, how their friends passed, all that kind of stuff - until after the fact. And then the aha moment comes in."
Psychic amnesia - real. John Edward - real. AHA!
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Old 8th December 2012, 09:17 AM   #377
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"It wasn't until after"

If any one of us sits here and thinks hard about it and maybe forgets and thinks later, we will ALL have a connection to someone with a hard G sounding name.

Which one of you JREFers is playing a big joke and pretending to be this person, sockpuppets are against the rules!
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Old 8th December 2012, 10:00 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by Joey McGee View Post
"It wasn't until after"

If any one of us sits here and thinks hard about it and maybe forgets and thinks later, we will ALL have a connection to someone with a hard G sounding name.

Which one of you JREFers is playing a big joke and pretending to be this person, sockpuppets are against the rules!
Not just someone...my brother and nephew. I'm not stretching to make the hard "G" connection as in... oh I had a friend Gabrielle in kindergarten. And I'm SURE if you really sit here and think hard about it you will realize you also have a significant connection to Valerie Harper (one that proves your loved one saw what you were doing a mere few hours before which in turn proves their continued existence) AND if you think really hard you will realize that your sister JUST bought a new refrigerator AND if you think really hard you will realize that your new friend carries a BIG tooth in his pocket. Or NOT. And for the record I will not stand for you calling me a "sock puppet" when I am clearly a "woo." : )
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Old 8th December 2012, 10:19 AM   #379
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I had no idea what kind of power was involved with this gift. With this power and a screwdriver you can take apart a radio.
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Old 8th December 2012, 10:30 AM   #380
Joey McGee
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I have a sister, an aunt, an uncle, and a grandfather who all have a seriously hard g in it.

And I'm quite familiar with your delusions since I used to be involved heavily with mediums and completely believed it for years. I have been in many seances and met many mediums and gotten many messages. Yeah even from the really expensive ones. And your pattern detection device is off. You're making coincidences and cold reading into the world. They can't even give you a bloody whole name. They can get a "G" But they can't get a "george brown." because they are cold reading. And you are desperate to believe it. It's sad, sad, sad.

I bet you have a long list of stuff you tell people as your evidence for spirit people. Well I guess you're reciting it here. Just sit and think about it, kind of like the fraudsters who consciously manipulate you say to do, just sit and an alternative explanation for all of these events will come to you later. If you just open your mind to the possibilities. Think of the strange coincidences, they are just patterns in life lining up and you notice them. Think of the strange messages, they picked that information up from your friend or relative or guessed you go "They couldn't have known!" Just, open your mind... open your mind.... why couldn't they give you a birth date but they knew of all of these other details, saying what the spirit is saying word for word but somehow they never knew a name.

Last edited by Joey McGee; 8th December 2012 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 8th December 2012, 10:36 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
Psychic amnesia - real. John Edward - real. AHA!
You're giving me psychic dsypepsia.
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Old 8th December 2012, 10:41 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
Not just someone...my brother and nephew. I'm not stretching to make the hard "G" connection as in... oh I had a friend Gabrielle in kindergarten.
No, you already did that when you said that your father had an "ST" sound in his name, when his name's actually "Salvatore".
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Old 8th December 2012, 11:50 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
RemieV,
I happened upon your thread...and by "happened upon" I mean I was thoroughly and deliberately searching for any and all threads about John Edward on this site! : )
Anyway, pretty amazing story, I agree. Although after a new refrigerator, a Valerie Harper connection, and a tooth in the pocket... I can't say I'm surprised! I am surprised, however, that you are asking people to explain how he did it... I KNOW how he did it and I'm willing to bet you do too! : )

John Edward is a con man who preys on the gullible, desperate, and weak. He's doing magic tricks, only marginally more difficult than the card tricks kids start showing each other in 5th or 6th grade. One of the main differences is that the grade school kids doing the card tricks only fail a small portion of the time. John Edward fails the vast majority of the time.

People have tried to help you learn how he does his tricks. The fact that you do not want to know is the only barrier between you being conned and understanding reality.
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Old 8th December 2012, 12:12 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
Not just someone...my brother and nephew. I'm not stretching to make the hard "G" connection as in... oh I had a friend Gabrielle in kindergarten. And I'm SURE if you really sit here and think hard about it you will realize you also have a significant connection to Valerie Harper (one that proves your loved one saw what you were doing a mere few hours before which in turn proves their continued existence) AND if you think really hard you will realize that your sister JUST bought a new refrigerator AND if you think really hard you will realize that your new friend carries a BIG tooth in his pocket. Or NOT. And for the record I will not stand for you calling me a "sock puppet" when I am clearly a "woo." : )
Except JE didn't do that, did he. Your very own words indicate that he did not aim those specific statements at specific people. For the name and the refrigerator it was addressed at best to a group of four people, and for the tooth it was addressed to at best one side of the room. And JE did not say your brother was going to a Valerie Harper show. He said there was a connection, which fits any number of people in any number of ways.
Your recollections have changed in your very own blog.

Your argument boils down to the very arrogant claim that you, you specifically, simply cannot be fooled. The arrogance does not bother me, though. What bothers me is your denial of it coupled with your mistaken claim of it for those who actually see the fraud.
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Old 8th December 2012, 12:56 PM   #385
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Robin,

You and your brother have brought up Occam's razor a couple of times, so let's go with that.

You have also said that you've read all about cold reading while you were doing your "research" on different psychics. In case you'd like a refresher course, here's a pretty easy to read pdf called Red Hot Cold Reading by Herb Dewey and Thomas K Seville, Ph.D., written in the mid 1980s, coincidentally right about the time John Edward says he became convinced that he was psychic. http://www.forum2.org/mellon/lj/Red%...20Readings.pdf

So, here's my question.

If you listen to John Edward and you listen to a magician doing a cold reading gig, John Edward sounds a lot like a magician doing cold reading.

If you watch John Edward and you watch a magician doing a cold reading gig, John Edward looks a lot like a magician doing cold reading.

The kinds of words and images John Edward says he gets are the same kinds of word and images a magician doing cold reading says he gets.

John Edward's "hit" rate is about the same as a magician gets doing cold reading.

We know that cold reading exists.
We know that some people call themselves psychics who perform cold reading.


So, which is the more simple explanation for John Edward's "abilities"?

John Edward is a magician doing cold reading.

OR

John Edward actually really talks to dead people, but really talking to dead people coincidentally looks and sounds a lot like magicians doing cold reading.
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Old 8th December 2012, 01:04 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by Joey McGee View Post
I have a sister, an aunt, an uncle, and a grandfather who all have a seriously hard g in it.

And I'm quite familiar with your delusions since I used to be involved heavily with mediums and completely believed it for years. I have been in many seances and met many mediums and gotten many messages. Yeah even from the really expensive ones. And your pattern detection device is off. You're making coincidences and cold reading into the world. They can't even give you a bloody whole name. They can get a "G" But they can't get a "george brown." because they are cold reading. And you are desperate to believe it. It's sad, sad, sad.

I bet you have a long list of stuff you tell people as your evidence for spirit people. Well I guess you're reciting it here. Just sit and think about it, kind of like the fraudsters who consciously manipulate you say to do, just sit and an alternative explanation for all of these events will come to you later. If you just open your mind to the possibilities. Think of the strange coincidences, they are just patterns in life lining up and you notice them. Think of the strange messages, they picked that information up from your friend or relative or guessed you go "They couldn't have known!" Just, open your mind... open your mind.... why couldn't they give you a birth date but they knew of all of these other details, saying what the spirit is saying word for word but somehow they never knew a name.
Listen closely...This here Woo used to be You! Yes, the fact that I am now sounding like Dr.Seuss is beginning to frighten even me...
And so...

"This Woo is through...nothing more I can do."

Peace from this Woo to You.
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Old 8th December 2012, 01:33 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
Yes, I watched the clip. It reminded me of the night I saw John Edward... I believe that many people who went to the same John Edward event that I did probably left feeling that John was a little "off" that night. After all, John was completely wrong insisting that my brother had a Valerie Harper connection (and even John said it woud have to mean something more for ex. than just liking the show Rhoda!) And John was completely wrong insisting that someone on my side of the room had a BIG tooth in their pocket. John was adamant on both counts to no avail. If any James Randi followers had been there that night they would view those unvalidated (almost ridiculous) statements as being verification that John was a fake! Oh, John did have another "miss"...he insisted that I, my brother (Occam Jr.) , my Mom (and of course my Dad) had a connection to someone with a hard "G" sounding name. Unfortunately John was wrong...we had no connection to a hard "G" sounding name....none, nada, zilch , zero, we're sure,...sorry John. It wasn't until after the event while we were at the restaurant with despicable "Tooth Guy" that I , my brother, and my Mom miraculously made the connection to the hard "G" sounding name....my other brother, Glenn. And of course his son... Gage! Yup. John does have a phrase to describe what happened to us that night...and it does not include any of the words running through your minds right now : )
John calls it "psychic amnesia" and here is a quote by John on a Larry King show that explains it:
"I have coined the phrase psychic amnesia. That is like the sudden and complete deterioration of the brain when I start talking to someone. They completely forget who they are, who they're related to : ), what their name is, how their friends passed, all that kind of stuff - until after the fact. And then the aha moment comes in."
Psychic amnesia - real. John Edward - real. AHA!


Getting hits on random items in no way indicates that he is psychic. It just says to me that someone overheard or found out information about you and he kept pushing it expecting you to say yes. It must have been very frustrating for him to know you had an older brother named Glenn and you didn't cop on to his saying a "hard G." He must have been nuts over that.


http://www.castleofspirits.com/johnedward.html


Quote:
"I was on the John Edward show. He even had a multiple guess "hit" on me that was featured on the show. However, it was edited so that my answer to another question was edited in after one of his questions. In other words, his question and my answer were deliberately mismatched. Only a fraction of what went on in the studio was actually seen in the final 30 minute show. He was wrong about a lot and was very aggressive when somebody failed to acknowledge something he said. Also, his "production assistants" were always around while we waited to get into the studio. They told us to keep very quiet, and they overheard a lot. I think that the whole place is bugged somehow. Also, once in the studio we had to wait around for almost two hours before the show began. Throughout that time everybody was talking about what dead relative of theirs might pop up. Remember that all this occurred under microphones and with cameras already set up. My guess is that he was backstage listening and looking at us all and noting certain readings. When he finally appeared, he looked at the audience as if he were trying to spot people he recognized. He also had ringers in the audience. I can tell because about fifteen people arrived in a chartered van, and once inside they did not sit together."

http://www.skepticreport.com/sr/?p=378


"Not Using the Given Name is a Schtick he uses over and over again with limited success."


I found it interesting to see that he has a typical spiel about people not using their given name. Sometimes it is a hit and sometimes it isn't. (See the quotes below) You can imagine that this is something that most people wouldn't think of talking about. But it is actually pretty common. I would say that every single day I have met someone who doesn't use their given name. Going back to the OP of this thread.

For example My ex husband is Egyptian and Egyptians have "begat" type given names. Ex. They take on the name of the father and the grandfather. Even if they are female, so for example my sister in law's name would be (fake but similar) Faiza Mohammed Abdul Samaan. When my ex was registering for his greencard they actually put down the first three names. So in his case it would be (fake but similar) Omar Mohammed Abdul. On his greencard his name was listed this way, but it isn't his real last name. His real last name would be Samaan. He had to fix it later and my kids had a different last name than him for years, it's part of why I kept my maiden name, because it wasn't the correct last name.

My husband now uses a different nickname because no one can pronounce his real name.

My mother doesn't use her real name. She uses her middle name as her first name. My best friend's real name is Mohammed but he doesn't use it because he doesn't like being considered Muslim because he isn't. My female best friend goes by the name Michelle but the Hebrew pronunciation of her name is Mikhal.

That's at least 5 people that are very close to me that do not use their real names. My former boss who was murdered here in Brooklyn who was Egyptian went by the last name O'Kelly. It turned out his Arabic last name was Ohkailhey and the immigration officials spelled it wrong and he liked it because it sounded Irish and he used that name.

That's five people plus one person who was murdered. My friend who died of colon cancer also didn't use her given name.

So if I went to a John Edward event and he said "I'm getting a connection with you about someone not using their real name" I'd look up. That could be my ex husband, my husband, my mother, my male best friend, my female best friend and my former boss or my friend that died.

Then "it's a male" so now another hit.

That could be my husband, my ex husband, my best friend, or my former boss.



Then JE says "he's dead"

and


Bam total full on hit with O'Kelly and how in the HECK did he know that?

He's found a niche that most people don't realize is an easy hit maker.

Quote:
Father didn’t use real name
John Edward: Okay, but I get it as being separate. Either your dad is also there, but they’re telling me to acknowledge the father figure, also, who has passed. Is there a reason why he would not go by his given name?
Sitter: Unbelievable.


Quote:
MISSES ON “CROSSING OVER”

Father didn’t use real name
John Edward: And they’re making me feel like there’s a reference that I have a dad that’s coming through. And they’re making me feel like the father’s coming through, also acknowledging that he was known by a different name or a variation of the name.


Quote:
MISSES FROM LARRY KING LIVE AND SEMINARS

Father did not use real name
John Edward: Is there a reason why your dad would not go by his name? That he would go by the name of a place?
Sitter: Not that I know of?
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Old 8th December 2012, 02:04 PM   #388
Garrette
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
Listen closely...This here Woo used to be You! Yes, the fact that I am now sounding like Dr.Seuss is beginning to frighten even me...
And so...

"This Woo is through...nothing more I can do."

Peace from this Woo to You.
Listen? We have listened. We are the only ones listening. It is the skeptic side that has demonstrated real knowledge of cold reading, confirmation bias, malleable memory, and all the aspects of making the fraudulent seem real. The only one not listening is you. You ignore the relevant questions. You ignore the discrepancies in your story. You ignore the obvious similarities between JE and mentalists. You ignore topics that you raise when you find we are familiar with them. You ignore everything but your fantasy.

I do not believe you wish us peace. I believe you only wish we disregard fact in favor of believing your flawed worldview.

I said it before: your behavior is arrogant and disrespectful -- all the more because you pretend those flaws lie with us.
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Old 8th December 2012, 03:14 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Garrette View Post
Listen? We have listened. We are the only ones listening. It is the skeptic side that has demonstrated real knowledge of cold reading, confirmation bias, malleable memory, and all the aspects of making the fraudulent seem real. The only one not listening is you. You ignore the relevant questions. You ignore the discrepancies in your story. You ignore the obvious similarities between JE and mentalists. You ignore topics that you raise when you find we are familiar with them. You ignore everything but your fantasy.

I do not believe you wish us peace. I believe you only wish we disregard fact in favor of believing your flawed worldview.

I said it before: your behavior is arrogant and disrespectful -- all the more because you pretend those flaws lie with us.
Once again, Garrette, your eyes are blind to a very obvious and simple truth...I do wish you all peace...for in your eyes I can see the reflection of my husband as well as others dear to me who I couldn't possibly love or respect more. I can't change their minds, I can't change your mind, and you can't change mine... BUT that doesn't mean that we all can't find peace...we just have chosen different paths to get there.
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Old 8th December 2012, 03:17 PM   #390
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Robin you can't tell people they are blind when you haven't shown them anything. I mean seriously, it's like you walking into the room and telling us you have a rhinoceros standing next to you. We say where? Suddenly something falls off the shelf and you say "Seeee, there he is!" and we say "We saw something fall off the shelf, we didn't see a rhinoceros knock it off the shelf" then you say "I can't help it if you are blind."

Dawg that's just stupid.
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Old 8th December 2012, 03:50 PM   #391
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Why can't his power do more than fleece people? Like retrieve old recipes from grandma or where grandpa hid his jug of XXX white lighting?
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Old 8th December 2012, 03:54 PM   #392
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Hi, Robin.
Have I understood you correctly to say you 'forgot' your brother's name begins with a G?
Memory is a tricky thing, isn't it?
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Old 8th December 2012, 03:57 PM   #393
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Thinking about it, both my step-mum and a friend of mine go by their middle names. I'd not really thought about it before, but it can't be that uncommon.

I also used to know a girl that I always called "Daphne" simply because I thought it suited her more than her real name. I don't think that counts, though.
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Old 8th December 2012, 03:58 PM   #394
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She forgot her brother's name. So did her mother. But they can tell us rock solid for sure they remember everything they said and did that day. She's also already changed the story from JE saying someone had a tooth to JE saying someone had a big tooth thereby rendering it more similar to the beaver tooth the guy had in his wallet.
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Old 8th December 2012, 03:59 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Thinking about it, both my step-mum and a friend of mine go by their middle names. I'd not really thought about it before, but it can't be that uncommon.

I also used to know a girl that I always called "Daphne" simply because I thought it suited her more than her real name. I don't think that counts, though.

I bet every single person on this thread or actually forum, knows at least two people, one of them closely, that don't go by their real name. It struck me, it's an obvious commonality that most people never think about at all.
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Old 8th December 2012, 04:01 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot View Post
Why can't his power do more than fleece people? Like retrieve old recipes from grandma or where grandpa hid his jug of XXX white lighting?
You know what I'd do if I could contact the dead, and if I knew that the dead could always watch over us? I'd contact the spirit of dead spies and get them to watch over people in terrorist cells, so that the government (who I'd work for) could prevent future tragedies. Just imagine the intelligence-gathering potential of a spy who could go anywhere and whom it'd be impossible to stop.

But I'm sure telling someone that they've bought a fridge recently is more important.
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Old 8th December 2012, 04:40 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by Robin Stettnisch View Post
Once again, Garrette, your eyes are blind to a very obvious and simple truth...I do wish you all peace...for in your eyes I can see the reflection of my husband as well as others dear to me who I couldn't possibly love or respect more. I can't change their minds, I can't change your mind, and you can't change mine... BUT that doesn't mean that we all can't find peace...we just have chosen different paths to get there.
Wrong all around. You could change my mind about your behavior simply by discussing the topics that you brought up and discussing the discrepancies in the blog you insisted we read.

You could change my mind about JE by presenting evidence that does not fall apart under scrutiny.

My mind is changeable. Yours, obviously, is not.

You have decide that you and you alone are too smart to be fooled. So spare me the tripe about me being blind. I will gladly ratchet back my contempt when you decide to actually discuss. Until then, I am content to let you the emptiness of your position be demonstrated by your fear to examine it critically.
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Old 8th December 2012, 04:58 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by Garrette View Post
Listen? We have listened. We are the only ones listening. It is the skeptic side that has demonstrated real knowledge of cold reading, confirmation bias, malleable memory, and all the aspects of making the fraudulent seem real. The only one not listening is you. You ignore the relevant questions. You ignore the discrepancies in your story. You ignore the obvious similarities between JE and mentalists. You ignore topics that you raise when you find we are familiar with them. You ignore everything but your fantasy.

I do not believe you wish us peace. I believe you only wish we disregard fact in favor of believing your flawed worldview.

I said it before: your behavior is arrogant and disrespectful -- all the more because you pretend those flaws lie with us.
And the only way for him to remedy those moral failings of "arrogance and disrespect" is to change his beliefs, right? In other words, merely believing in something can make you a moral wrongdoer as a necessary consequence of that act of belief.
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Old 8th December 2012, 05:06 PM   #399
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No, first up Robin is a woman. Second, Garrette didn't say anything about moral failings, Garrette stated that the behavior was arrogant and disrespectful. Coming to a site of skeptics and sharing a story that is so full of holes it gives a fishing net a run for its money, and then refusing to accept that we don't believe it's true. Dismissing people as blind instead of providing more details.

Ex. I think in this thread is the first time that we found out that one of the others in the group was Robin's mother. And that is a very important detail. Because if Robin's mother was there, it certainly demystifies the comments about the fingerprints. Reading body language and using details on a person is a warm reading, not a cold reading.
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Old 8th December 2012, 05:26 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
I bet every single person on this thread or actually forum, knows at least two people, one of them closely, that don't go by their real name. It struck me, it's an obvious commonality that most people never think about at all.
Most of the people on one side of my family don't use their first name. We are scots, and all the firstborn males are named a particular ancestral name. Second and third borns get named after other family members. None of them use it. They all either have a nickname or go by their middle name.
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