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CriticalFunker · 8th January 2011, 08:15 AM

Wow, this is what I call a paranoid security state at the brink. Not really a good move,imo. Other than being petty and juvenile, I'd say it's pushing way beyonds the limit to personal privacy and intimidation by a paranoid rising authoritarian state. Someone is mad. Last resorts: Give us your twitter information,credit cards,banking records !

source:

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/

Quote:

Last night, Birgitta Jónsdóttir -- a former WikiLeaks volunteer and current member of the Icelandic Parliament -- announced (on Twitter) that she had been notified by Twitter that the DOJ had served a Subpoena demanding information "about all my tweets and more since November 1st 2009." Several news outlets, including The Guardian, wrote about Jónsdóttir's announcement.

What hasn't been reported is that the Subpoena served on Twitter -- which is actually an Order from a federal court that the DOJ requested -- seeks the same information for numerous other individuals currently or formerly associated with WikiLeaks, including Jacob Appelbaum, Rop Gonggrijp, and Julian Assange. It also seeks the same information for Bradley Manning and for WikiLeaks' Twitter account.

The information demanded by the DOJ is sweeping in scope. It includes all mailing addresses and billing information known for the user, all connection records and session times, all IP addresses used to access Twitter, all known email accounts, as well as the "means and source of payment," including banking records and credit cards. It seeks all of that information for the period beginning November 1, 2009, through the present.

Document order:
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/gl...r/subpoena.pdf

Quote:

UPDATE II: It's worth recalling -- and I hope journalists writing about this story remind themselves -- that all of this extraordinary probing and "criminal" investigating is stemming from WikiLeaks' doing nothing more than publishing classified information showing what the U.S. Government is doing: something investigative journalists, by definition, do all the time.

And the key question now is this: did other Internet and social network companies (Google, Facebook, etc.) receive similar Orders and then quietly comply? It's difficult to imagine why the DOJ would want information only from Twitter; if anything, given the limited information it has about users, Twitter would seem one of the least fruitful avenues to pursue. But if other companies did receive and quietly comply with these orders, it will be a long time before we know, if we ever do, given the prohibition in these orders on disclosing even its existence to anyone.

Seems to me more violations of personal rights and privacy concerns. :Cue the Apologist Symphony:

Simple Mathematical Formula

US Govt + Wikileaks volunteers + Wikileaks information=Y U Mad Tho?

[IMG]http://images1.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/4042924
/y-u-mad-tho.jpg[/IMG]

If you don't think this is a serious battle for our rights as american citizens, you are fooling yourself. It's obvious the US Govt has gone off the rails off anything deemed as classified information. Not a good sign for the new decade.

CDFingers · 8th January 2011, 08:32 AM

I see this as a 4th amendment violation.

CDFingers

CriticalFunker · 8th January 2011, 08:45 AM

Originally Posted by CDFingers

I see this as a 4th amendment violation.

CDFingers

I think everyone who received one of these orders should come forward. Just scan the orders for the world to see. I'd like to know who else got one of these childish desperate attempt at intimidation & excessive harrassment. US Govt has become the quinessential Hall Monitor for Global Citizen High School.

Oliver · 8th January 2011, 08:50 AM

CNN's take on that story:

WikiLeaks backer: U.S. wants my info

Travis · 8th January 2011, 08:52 AM

I think it's hilarious.

I also don't think they'll be successful.

CriticalFunker · 8th January 2011, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by Travis

I think it's hilarious.

I also don't think they'll be successful.

I bet you this bluff has worked on one of these companies. I will take those odds. I would put on the header of the document a flashing US Govt Seal with an angry eagle. Presentation is important.

WildCat · 8th January 2011, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by CriticalFunker

Wow, this is what I call a paranoid security state at the brink. Not really a good move,imo. Other than being petty and juvenile, I'd say it's pushing way beyonds the limit to personal privacy and intimidation by a paranoid rising authoritarian state. Someone is mad. Last resorts: Give us your twitter information,credit cards,banking records !

I think what they're doing here is looking for evidence that Manning was in contact with Wikileaks prior to his actually stealing the documents. If this turns out to be the case, it makes Wikileaks an accomplice to that crime rather than simply a 3rd party.

WildCat · 8th January 2011, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Travis

I think it's hilarious.

I also don't think they'll be successful.

I think they will be successful.

casebro · 8th January 2011, 09:57 AM

Or payment records via a U.S. bank would leave Assange open to some kind of prosecution in the States? "Doing business in America means abiding by American justice system,". Vs, it's not illegal for a foreigner to publish a countries secrets?

Beerina · 8th January 2011, 09:59 AM

Did Wikileaks do anything illegal? The government must suspect they were bribing or coercing people to give them the info, right? I mean, that would be the only illegality. Publishing classified stuff people just gave you may be unethical, but it is not illegal.

WildCat · 8th January 2011, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Beerina

Did Wikileaks do anything illegal? The government must suspect they were bribing or coercing people to give them the info, right? I mean, that would be the only illegality. Publishing classified stuff people just gave you may be unethical, but it is not illegal.

If it's shown that Wikileaks and Manning were communicating prior to the theft then that possibly makes them part of the crime.

INRM · 8th January 2011, 08:30 PM

I think this is a very dangerous sign, it's a 4th Amendment violation, and is indicative of a government that is becoming a rising authoritarian state.

barium · 8th January 2011, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by WildCat

If it's shown that Wikileaks and Manning were communicating prior to the theft then that possibly makes them part of the crime.

Don't they already know he contacted Assange in 2009 and stole the data in 2010? I'm thinking they want to know if wikileaks knew how he was going to come by the data, and if they encouraged the theft.

Childlike Empress · 9th January 2011, 12:04 AM

There's another thread in Social Issues, where i've posted this:

-----

Rop Gonggrijp is one of the three evil people (plus Assange and Manning) the DoJ wants to investigate, speaking less than two weeks ago at a conference in Berlin:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

The other two are Jacob Appelbaum, here at a conference in the USA, after the release of the "Collateral Murder" video, filling in for Julian Assange who did not make it because Seymour Hersh told him that it isn't safe:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

And Birgitta Jonsdottir, member of the Icelandic Parlament, talking about how the "financial crisis" hit her country, and (IIRC, could be older) IMMI, the Icelandic Modern Media Initiative (this is Radio):

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

PhantomWolf · 9th January 2011, 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by WildCat

If it's shown that Wikileaks and Manning were communicating prior to the theft then that possibly makes them part of the crime.

I guess they better put out warrents for every single KGB Chief too.

WildCat · 9th January 2011, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

I guess they better put out warrents for every single KGB Chief too.

Many Soviet spies were arrested. Many others were kicked out of the country because they had diplomatic immunity.

You're not immune to US laws just because you're a foreigner.

If agents of Wikileaks did aid and abet Manning they are no longer disinterested 3rd parties, but part of ther crime.

Checkmite · 9th January 2011, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by CriticalFunker

Wow, this is what I call a paranoid security state at the brink. Not really a good move,imo. Other than being petty and juvenile, I'd say it's pushing way beyonds the limit to personal privacy and intimidation by a paranoid rising authoritarian state. Someone is mad.

Welcome to the fact that the internet is not, nor has ever been, the decentralized no-man's land of free expression that its biggest fans like to pretend it is.

PhantomWolf · 9th January 2011, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by WildCat

Many Soviet spies were arrested. Many others were kicked out of the country because they had diplomatic immunity.

You're not immune to US laws just because you're a foreigner.

If agents of Wikileaks did aid and abet Manning they are no longer disinterested 3rd parties, but part of ther crime.

So you're saying that people outside the US should be prosecutable for crimes that occured in the US? If so, then every KGB chef that ever sent a KGB agent to the US knowing or instructing them to commit a crime should be prosecuted. And likewise the US better start handing over all their CIA chefs for prosectution too.

barium · 9th January 2011, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf

So you're saying that people outside the US should be prosecutable for crimes that occured in the US? If so, then every KGB chef that ever sent a KGB agent to the US knowing or instructing them to commit a crime should be prosecuted. And likewise the US better start handing over all their CIA chefs for prosectution too.

I'm sure intelligence agencies play by a different rulebook. If you start going after their spy chiefs, they might go after yours.

But yeah, you will be extradited if you pay a hitman to kill someone in another country. Or if you hack computer systems located in other countries. That's nothing new.

8th January 2011, 08:15 AM	#1
CriticalFunker Scholar Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 66	US Govt Demanding Twitter Info from Wikileaks Wow, this is what I call a paranoid security state at the brink. Not really a good move,imo. Other than being petty and juvenile, I'd say it's pushing way beyonds the limit to personal privacy and intimidation by a paranoid rising authoritarian state. Someone is mad. Last resorts: Give us your twitter information,credit cards,banking records ! source: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/ Quote: Last night, Birgitta Jónsdóttir -- a former WikiLeaks volunteer and current member of the Icelandic Parliament -- announced (on Twitter) that she had been notified by Twitter that the DOJ had served a Subpoena demanding information "about all my tweets and more since November 1st 2009." Several news outlets, including The Guardian, wrote about Jónsdóttir's announcement. What hasn't been reported is that the Subpoena served on Twitter -- which is actually an Order from a federal court that the DOJ requested -- seeks the same information for numerous other individuals currently or formerly associated with WikiLeaks, including Jacob Appelbaum, Rop Gonggrijp, and Julian Assange. It also seeks the same information for Bradley Manning and for WikiLeaks' Twitter account. The information demanded by the DOJ is sweeping in scope. It includes all mailing addresses and billing information known for the user, all connection records and session times, all IP addresses used to access Twitter, all known email accounts, as well as the "means and source of payment," including banking records and credit cards. It seeks all of that information for the period beginning November 1, 2009, through the present. Document order: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/gl...r/subpoena.pdf Quote: UPDATE II: It's worth recalling -- and I hope journalists writing about this story remind themselves -- that all of this extraordinary probing and "criminal" investigating is stemming from WikiLeaks' doing nothing more than publishing classified information showing what the U.S. Government is doing: something investigative journalists, by definition, do all the time. And the key question now is this: did other Internet and social network companies (Google, Facebook, etc.) receive similar Orders and then quietly comply? It's difficult to imagine why the DOJ would want information only from Twitter; if anything, given the limited information it has about users, Twitter would seem one of the least fruitful avenues to pursue. But if other companies did receive and quietly comply with these orders, it will be a long time before we know, if we ever do, given the prohibition in these orders on disclosing even its existence to anyone. Seems to me more violations of personal rights and privacy concerns. :Cue the Apologist Symphony: Simple Mathematical Formula US Govt + Wikileaks volunteers + Wikileaks information=Y U Mad Tho? [IMG]http://images1.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/4042924 /y-u-mad-tho.jpg[/IMG] If you don't think this is a serious battle for our rights as american citizens, you are fooling yourself. It's obvious the US Govt has gone off the rails off anything deemed as classified information. Not a good sign for the new decade.
CriticalFunker Scholar Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 66	Last edited by CriticalFunker; 8th January 2011 at 08:33 AM.

8th January 2011, 08:45 AM	#3
CriticalFunker Scholar Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 66	Originally Posted by CDFingers I see this as a 4th amendment violation. CDFingers I think everyone who received one of these orders should come forward. Just scan the orders for the world to see. I'd like to know who else got one of these childish desperate attempt at intimidation & excessive harrassment. US Govt has become the quinessential Hall Monitor for Global Citizen High School.
CriticalFunker Scholar Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 66

8th January 2011, 08:50 AM	#4
Oliver ~The Rascal~ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cologne Posts: 17,370	CNN's take on that story: WikiLeaks backer: U.S. wants my info
	__________________

8th January 2011, 08:52 AM	#5
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tuolumne City, CA Posts: 18,101	I think it's hilarious. I also don't think they'll be successful.
	__________________ "Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com Zingiber Officinale The Humor blog of some not crazy guy

8th January 2011, 09:07 AM	#6
CriticalFunker Scholar Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 66	Originally Posted by Travis I think it's hilarious. I also don't think they'll be successful. I bet you this bluff has worked on one of these companies. I will take those odds. I would put on the header of the document a flashing US Govt Seal with an angry eagle. Presentation is important.
CriticalFunker Scholar Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 66

8th January 2011, 08:32 AM	#2
CDFingers Scholar Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Butte County, Calif. Posts: 53	I see this as a 4th amendment violation. CDFingers

8th January 2011, 09:32 AM	#7
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,457	Originally Posted by CriticalFunker Wow, this is what I call a paranoid security state at the brink. Not really a good move,imo. Other than being petty and juvenile, I'd say it's pushing way beyonds the limit to personal privacy and intimidation by a paranoid rising authoritarian state. Someone is mad. Last resorts: Give us your twitter information,credit cards,banking records ! I think what they're doing here is looking for evidence that Manning was in contact with Wikileaks prior to his actually stealing the documents. If this turns out to be the case, it makes Wikileaks an accomplice to that crime rather than simply a 3rd party.

8th January 2011, 09:34 AM	#8
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,457	Originally Posted by Travis I think it's hilarious. I also don't think they'll be successful. I think they will be successful.

8th January 2011, 09:57 AM	#9
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,880	Or payment records via a U.S. bank would leave Assange open to some kind of prosecution in the States? "Doing business in America means abiding by American justice system,". Vs, it's not illegal for a foreigner to publish a countries secrets?
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,880	__________________ Please pardon me for having ideas, not facts. Some have called me cynical, but I don't believe them. It's not how many breaths you take. It's how many times you have been breathless that counts.

8th January 2011, 09:59 AM	#10
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Did Wikileaks do anything illegal? The government must suspect they were bribing or coercing people to give them the info, right? I mean, that would be the only illegality. Publishing classified stuff people just gave you may be unethical, but it is not illegal.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

8th January 2011, 12:21 PM	#11
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,457	Originally Posted by Beerina Did Wikileaks do anything illegal? The government must suspect they were bribing or coercing people to give them the info, right? I mean, that would be the only illegality. Publishing classified stuff people just gave you may be unethical, but it is not illegal. If it's shown that Wikileaks and Manning were communicating prior to the theft then that possibly makes them part of the crime.

8th January 2011, 08:30 PM	#12
INRM Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 5,490	I think this is a very dangerous sign, it's a 4th Amendment violation, and is indicative of a government that is becoming a rising authoritarian state.
INRM Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 5,490

8th January 2011, 11:48 PM	#13
barium Thinker Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 131	Originally Posted by WildCat If it's shown that Wikileaks and Manning were communicating prior to the theft then that possibly makes them part of the crime. Don't they already know he contacted Assange in 2009 and stole the data in 2010? I'm thinking they want to know if wikileaks knew how he was going to come by the data, and if they encouraged the theft.

9th January 2011, 03:46 AM	#15
PhantomWolf Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lost Deimos Moon Base Posts: 10,004	Originally Posted by WildCat If it's shown that Wikileaks and Manning were communicating prior to the theft then that possibly makes them part of the crime. I guess they better put out warrents for every single KGB Chief too.
	__________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) My Apollo Page. 1 on 1 Debating Forum for Skeptics and sceptics.

9th January 2011, 07:47 AM	#16
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,457	Originally Posted by PhantomWolf I guess they better put out warrents for every single KGB Chief too. Many Soviet spies were arrested. Many others were kicked out of the country because they had diplomatic immunity. You're not immune to US laws just because you're a foreigner. If agents of Wikileaks did aid and abet Manning they are no longer disinterested 3rd parties, but part of ther crime.

9th January 2011, 01:42 PM	#17
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Third in line Posts: 14,977	Originally Posted by CriticalFunker Wow, this is what I call a paranoid security state at the brink. Not really a good move,imo. Other than being petty and juvenile, I'd say it's pushing way beyonds the limit to personal privacy and intimidation by a paranoid rising authoritarian state. Someone is mad. Welcome to the fact that the internet is not, nor has ever been, the decentralized no-man's land of free expression that its biggest fans like to pretend it is.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

9th January 2011, 04:29 PM	#18
PhantomWolf Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lost Deimos Moon Base Posts: 10,004	Originally Posted by WildCat Many Soviet spies were arrested. Many others were kicked out of the country because they had diplomatic immunity. You're not immune to US laws just because you're a foreigner. If agents of Wikileaks did aid and abet Manning they are no longer disinterested 3rd parties, but part of ther crime. So you're saying that people outside the US should be prosecutable for crimes that occured in the US? If so, then every KGB chef that ever sent a KGB agent to the US knowing or instructing them to commit a crime should be prosecuted. And likewise the US better start handing over all their CIA chefs for prosectution too.
	__________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) My Apollo Page. 1 on 1 Debating Forum for Skeptics and sceptics.

9th January 2011, 04:51 PM	#19
barium Thinker Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 131	Originally Posted by PhantomWolf So you're saying that people outside the US should be prosecutable for crimes that occured in the US? If so, then every KGB chef that ever sent a KGB agent to the US knowing or instructing them to commit a crime should be prosecuted. And likewise the US better start handing over all their CIA chefs for prosectution too. I'm sure intelligence agencies play by a different rulebook. If you start going after their spy chiefs, they might go after yours. But yeah, you will be extradited if you pay a hitman to kill someone in another country. Or if you hack computer systems located in other countries. That's nothing new.