Segway's illegal on UK pavements AND roads

commandlinegamer · 19th January 2011, 04:01 AM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...-fined-75.html

Can therefore only be ridden on private land. Meanwhile OAPs on motor scooters can continue to cause chaos anywhere.

Cuddles · 19th January 2011, 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by commandlinegamer

Meanwhile OAPs on motor scooters can continue to cause chaos anywhere.

As long as they don't fit them with caterpillar tracks: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12216555

Skwinty · 19th January 2011, 05:24 AM

Didn't George dubbya fall off one?

Didn't one of the Segway company owners kill himself by riding a segway off a cliff?

Why not make it illegal for idiots to own one?

Ethan Thane Athen · 19th January 2011, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by commandlinegamer

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...-fined-75.html

Can therefore only be ridden on private land. Meanwhile OAPs on motor scooters can continue to cause chaos anywhere.

I can't open the article so apologies if this is covered but, whilst I can understand banning them from pavements as push bikes are, I can't see how they are anymore dangerous on the road than a C5 or indeed, the aforementioned push-bike?

richardm · 19th January 2011, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen

I can't open the article so apologies if this is covered but, whilst I can understand banning them from pavements as push bikes are, I can't see how they are anymore dangerous on the road than a C5 or indeed, the aforementioned push-bike?

The Highway Act of 1835 explicitly banned two-wheeled electric vehicles

- really, it seems to be a complicated issue. I've cribbed what seems to be a good summary from Here:

Quote:

The Road Traffic Act 1988 and the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 define a motorcycle as being a mechanically propelled vehicle with less than four wheels and weighing under 410kg unladen.

The Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 requires vehicle excise duty (road tax) to be charged on any mechanically propelled vehicle used or kept on the road. The Road Traffic Act 1988 provides the basis for offences such as causing death by dangerous driving, driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs and so on. It also lays down the requirement for vehicle users to hold a driving licence, and for motorcycle riders to wear a helmet.

The Road Traffic Act 1988 also requires motor vehicles used on the road to comply with the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 and the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989.

Under the Highway Act 1835 and the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to drive or ride a carriage of any description (including a bicycle [and now, it seems, a Segway]), or a motor vehicle, on a footpath.

The courts have decided that motorised scooter, electric or petrol driven and variously described as gopeds, buzzboards or electric scooters [and segways] are motor vehicles for the purposes of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and cannot be used on the highway or other place to which the public have access. This will include pavements and parks.

They may be used on a road if they are type approved to the EU standard E/92/61. The machine should be stamped with the type approval number, which should start with E/92/61. The retailer should be able to show you a copy of the certificate of conformity. If the machine is not stamped it will not be type approved and cannot be used other than on private property.

If it is type approved it will be regarded as a moped and the usual requirements regarding crash helmets, tax, insurance and driving licences apply. The majority of these machines are not type approved.

Electrical assisted pedal cycles can be ridden on the highway by someone over the age of 14 years provided they have pedals to propel it, the electric motor power output does not exceed 0.2 kilowatts (or 200 Watts) and the electric motor is incapable of propelling the cycle when it is travelling at more than 15 miles an hour.

... In fact the very loose wording of the definition of a motorcycle specifically seems intended to catch any such vehicle.

LTC8K6 · 19th January 2011, 06:25 AM

How is an unemployed fellow able to afford one?

Hellbound · 19th January 2011, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by Skwinty

Didn't George dubbya fall off one?

Didn't one of the Segway company owners kill himself by riding a segway off a cliff?

Why not make it illegal for idiots to own one?

No, you're getting this wrong.

We should make it mandatory for idiots to own one, and use it at all times.

Skwinty · 19th January 2011, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

How is an unemployed fellow able to afford one?

The dole?

gumboot · 19th January 2011, 06:27 AM

Legislators are notoriously slow to catch up with reality. This comes as no surprise. What's the legal status in the UK of those silly little electric car things which you see old people pottering about on? Seems to me the same rule should apply.

richardm · 19th January 2011, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

How is an unemployed fellow able to afford one?

He's unemployed now. There's no suggestion that he was unemployed when he bought it; in fact the article says specifically that he bought it to help him travel to work, which is not something that the unemployed generally bother with

Policenaut · 19th January 2011, 06:31 AM

I think there's some 180 year old law that prevents them from being ridden on the sidewalk and they are also banned from the streets because they don't conform to some safety standard. It's almost a catch 22. Anyway I'm sure everyone will have fun driving their segways up and down the driveway.

LTC8K6 · 19th January 2011, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by richardm

He's unemployed now. There's no suggestion that he was unemployed when he bought it; in fact the article says specifically that he bought it to help him travel to work, which is not something that the unemployed generally bother with

How does a factory worker afford one?

gumboot · 19th January 2011, 06:33 AM

The obvious solution seems to be to get it type approved.

LTC8K6 · 19th January 2011, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by gumboot

The obvious solution seems to be to get it type approved.

It would have to have a bunch of stuff added to it, I believe. Lights and indicators, etc.

In The Independent, he's a miner, not a factory worker...

Quote:

A judge yesterday fined a former miner from Barnsley for riding a Segway on the pavement because, the legal eagle decreed, he was "inexorably driven to the conclusion" that the device is a motor vehicle.

richardm · 19th January 2011, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

How does a factory worker afford one?

Mind you if you consider that you don't need insurance, road fund licence, MOT or petrol, it might be thought of as being a cheaper option than a second hand car.

(If you could actually use it, that is)

Originally Posted by gumboot

Legislators are notoriously slow to catch up with reality. This comes as no surprise. What's the legal status in the UK of those silly little electric car things which you see old people pottering about on? Seems to me the same rule should apply.

They seem to slip through because they're a solution to disability.

LTC8K6 · 19th January 2011, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Phil Coates, who bought the Segway on a holiday in Florida

Must have been a nice job...

Clearly the thing is a motorized vehicle, and it's not intended for the handicapped, so why was it ever allowed on the sidewalk? In most places, bicycles aren't even allowed on the sidewalk.

It was allowed on the sidewalk to promote it as a green method of transport.

If I put a 12mph governor on a scooter, can I ride it on the sidewalk? It already has a horn and lights and turn signals, plus it makes noise so people can hear it. It's much cleaner and more efficient than a car to get around.

gumboot · 19th January 2011, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

It would have to have a bunch of stuff added to it, I believe. Lights and indicators, etc.

I'm sure that would be pretty straight forward. In fact if you have a browse through the internet you'll find plenty of examples of Segways that already have those things (some of them appear to be custom modifications) and basic lighting (headlight and tail light) are standard accessories.

WildCat · 19th January 2011, 08:17 AM

Meh.

Stupid vehicle for lazy people with too much money.

I Ratant · 19th January 2011, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by WildCat

Meh.

Stupid vehicle for lazy people with too much money.

.
LA County Sheriff provides them to their officers at malls here.
Some of the "inventory shrinkage" devotees I've seen exiting the stores at high speeds can't be run down on foot!

rwguinn · 19th January 2011, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by gumboot

I'm sure that would be pretty straight forward. In fact if you have a browse through the internet you'll find plenty of examples of Segways that already have those things (some of them appear to be custom modifications) and basic lighting (headlight and tail light) are standard accessories.

It's putting airbags and seat belts in that have engineering flummoxed...

Beerina · 19th January 2011, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by richardm

They seem to slip through because ~~they're a solution to disability~~ no elected politician would dare risk telling a motorized wheelchair-bound person they need to stop using it or go to jail because of this unforseen technicality.

Fixed.

catsmate1 · 19th January 2011, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Segway's illegal on UK pavements AND roads

Good. Is it legal to impale their operators on sharpened umbrella tips yet?

Originally Posted by commandlinegamer

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...-fined-75.html

Can therefore only be ridden on private land. Meanwhile OAPs on motor scooters can continue to cause chaos anywhere.

I believe such vehicles are exempted as medical devices. AT least that's my vague memory of the law in Ireland

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

It would have to have a bunch of stuff added to it, I believe. Lights and indicators, etc.

This is done in some countries, however they have to be registered for road use (and would be subject to road tax), fitted with brakes et cetera. Driving license and insurance would also be needed.

Realistically they're to dangerous to pedestrians to be used on footpaths and to dangerous to the operator for road use.

WildCat · 19th January 2011, 11:14 AM

Now if only they'd make roller-blading on bike paths illegal...

I Ratant · 19th January 2011, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by catsmate1

...
I believe such vehicles are exempted as medical devices. AT least that's my vague memory of the law in Ireland

...

.
Looking at the typical girths of the Sheriffs that use these, medical devices they ain't!

gumboot · 19th January 2011, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by rwguinn

It's putting airbags and seat belts in that have engineering flummoxed...

Once they've cracked it for motorcycles I'm sure segways won't be far behind.

richardm · 20th January 2011, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by Beerina

Fixed.

Kind of, but Invalid Carriages really are a recognised exception.

Cuddles · 20th January 2011, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

Clearly the thing is a motorized vehicle, and it's not intended for the handicapped, so why was it ever allowed on the sidewalk? In most places, bicycles aren't even allowed on the sidewalk.

Was it ever explicitly allowed on the pavement? Or was it simply not banned yet because it was new and no-one had quite decided what to do about it yet?

TubbaBlubba · 21st January 2011, 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by gumboot

What's the legal status in the UK of those silly little electric car things which you see old people pottering about on? Seems to me the same rule should apply.

They're considered wheelchairs in Sweden. I'd know, I use one and you'll take it from my cold, dead hands.

Bob Blaylock · 21st January 2011, 12:58 PM

I've never ridden a Segway, but from having watched a few of them in operation, it really seems to me that there simply isn't any reasonable place for it in traditional traffic. It's too fast and too heavy to safely mix with pedestrian traffic; too slow and too vulnerable to safely mix with automobile traffic, and it doesn't have the right maneuvering characteristics to safely mix with bicycle traffic.

Operating one on sidewalks, in the street, or in bicycle lanes, it seems to me, cannot help but create unreasonable danger to the operator, and to others around him.

In order for the Segway to be a practical form of general transportation (and that's assuming that you can call a device that costs more than a good used car, while being slower and having less range than a decent bicycle that costs a tenth as much, can in any way be considered practical) it seems to me that there would have to be separate Segway-only lanes and paths for it t segregate it from the other forms of traffic with which it is incompatible.

Mojo · 21st January 2011, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by commandlinegamer

Segway's illegal on UK pavements AND roads

Segway's what illegal on UK pavements AND roads?

http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif

Rat · 21st January 2011, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Mojo

Segway's what illegal on UK pavements AND roads?

http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif

That was my initial reaction, but I calmed my inner pedant by reading it as "Segway is illegal". I realize headline writers like to leave out verbs, but it reads better with one, and we are in this instance talking about only one Segway, even if the ruling applies to all others by extension.

Beerina · 21st January 2011, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by richardm

Kind of, but Invalid Carriages really are a recognised exception.

Maybe, but I'm willing to bet the motorized wheelchair, probably 100 years old, came along a long time before some legislator decided to lift his nose up in the air, rub his chin, and deign to "permit it".

I'm willing to bet someone noticed, went "Oh ****, we better fix it before we look like asses!" and hurriedly fixed the law, with an outside chance they were grandfathered in in initial law creation, though my knee-jerk cynicism doesn't grant a high probability to that.

JeanFromBNA · 21st January 2011, 07:20 PM

I've done several Segway tours, and would love to be able to own one for personal use around town. My business is about five blocks from my house. It would be great to Segway to the office, the bank, the post office, lunch, and back home. Problem is, at $4K - $5K, I can't justify it. I can buy a street-legal used truck for that price, and go anywhere I want.

A competent Segway operator is able to use them on sidewalks without problem. You do have to let people know if you are coming up behind them ("On your left.") You can govern the speed with your body movements. I've stood on them in crowds (DC), and gone off road and hands-free at top speed in the bahamas. They are a blast.

I don't understand why there has to be a law against their public use. Are there gangs of Segway thugs in the UK running people over?

Ruins my plans for London.

Chris C · 22nd January 2011, 05:25 PM

Where does that leave electric wheelchairs?

Bob Blaylock · 22nd January 2011, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by JeanFromBNA

I've done several Segway tours, and would love to be able to own one for personal use around town. My business is about five blocks from my house. It would be great to Segway to the office, the bank, the post office, lunch, and back home. Problem is, at $4K - $5K, I can't justify it. I can buy a street-legal used truck for that price, and go anywhere I want.

Or spend less than a tenth of that for a good bicycle that will do a much better job than a Segway would of covering the particular distances of which you speak. For that matter, over a range of several blocks, you might even find a bicycle more convenient and expedient than a car, depending on what parking conditions are like.

Originally Posted by JeanFromBNA

I don't understand why there has to be a law against their public use. Are there gangs of Segway thugs in the UK running people over?

To me, it's a very obvious issue of safety. I simply do not see these things as being safe to mix on sidewalks with pedestrian traffic. Someone driving a Segway in a pedestrian walkway would, in my opinion, pose an unacceptable danger to the safety of the pedestrians. And I don't see that they have the right speed and maneuvering characteristics to safely mix with automobile or bicycle traffic either.

There just isn't any place for them in the existing infrastructure, and as outrageously expensive as they are relative to their potential utility; I just don't see any realistic possibility that they will ever be common enough to justify the necessary modifications that would be necessary to the infrastructure in order to safely accommodate them.

plumjam · 22nd January 2011, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by Skwinty

Why not make it illegal for idiots to own one?

Cos if they did that they wouldn't sell any.

Evidence from the article:

Quote:

Lembit Opik, the former Liberal Democrat MP who turned up at court to support Mr Coates on his own Segway..

WildCat · 22nd January 2011, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by JeanFromBNA

A competent Segway operator is able to use them on sidewalks without problem. You do have to let people know if you are coming up behind them ("On your left.")

How do you do that if they're wearing an iPod? Surely, you don't expect people to stop wearing iPods and such to indulge people who insist on riding much faster motorized vehicles on the sidewalk?

WildCat · 22nd January 2011, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock

Or spend less than a tenth of that for a good bicycle that will do a much better job than a Segway would of covering the particular distances of which you speak. For that matter, over a range of several blocks, you might even find a bicycle more convenient and expedient than a car, depending on what parking conditions are like.

Also depends on places to lock your bike. I ride my bike less than I used to since Daley sold our metered parking spots to a private company. They replaced all the old coin-operated meters with a system where you pay at a box and put the receipt on your windshield. But they tore out all the meters, which were ideal for locking a bike to. Now you have to find a bike rack, which may be a block from where you want to go.

I wish they'd have left the meters in place, and just welded them shut and painted them over.

19th January 2011, 04:01 AM	#1
commandlinegamer Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Mazes of Menace Posts: 5,892	Segway's illegal on UK pavements AND roads http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...-fined-75.html Can therefore only be ridden on private land. Meanwhile OAPs on motor scooters can continue to cause chaos anywhere.
	__________________ He bade me take any rug in the house. Last edited by commandlinegamer; 19th January 2011 at 04:15 AM.

19th January 2011, 05:14 AM	#2
Cuddles Decoy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land full of pink fluffy sheeps and bunnies Posts: 16,580	Originally Posted by commandlinegamer Meanwhile OAPs on motor scooters can continue to cause chaos anywhere. As long as they don't fit them with caterpillar tracks: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12216555
	__________________ I am not a little teapot.

19th January 2011, 05:24 AM	#3
Skwinty Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The far side Posts: 4,972	Didn't George dubbya fall off one? Didn't one of the Segway company owners kill himself by riding a segway off a cliff? Why not make it illegal for idiots to own one?
	__________________ What is reality? Nothing but a collective hunch. --Lily Tomlin

19th January 2011, 05:44 AM	#4
Ethan Thane Athen Muse Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 950	Originally Posted by commandlinegamer http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...-fined-75.html Can therefore only be ridden on private land. Meanwhile OAPs on motor scooters can continue to cause chaos anywhere. I can't open the article so apologies if this is covered but, whilst I can understand banning them from pavements as push bikes are, I can't see how they are anymore dangerous on the road than a C5 or indeed, the aforementioned push-bike?
Ethan Thane Athen Muse Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 950

19th January 2011, 06:23 AM	#5
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen I can't open the article so apologies if this is covered but, whilst I can understand banning them from pavements as push bikes are, I can't see how they are anymore dangerous on the road than a C5 or indeed, the aforementioned push-bike? The Highway Act of 1835 explicitly banned two-wheeled electric vehicles - really, it seems to be a complicated issue. I've cribbed what seems to be a good summary from Here: Quote: The Road Traffic Act 1988 and the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 define a motorcycle as being a mechanically propelled vehicle with less than four wheels and weighing under 410kg unladen. The Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 requires vehicle excise duty (road tax) to be charged on any mechanically propelled vehicle used or kept on the road. The Road Traffic Act 1988 provides the basis for offences such as causing death by dangerous driving, driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs and so on. It also lays down the requirement for vehicle users to hold a driving licence, and for motorcycle riders to wear a helmet. The Road Traffic Act 1988 also requires motor vehicles used on the road to comply with the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 and the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989. Under the Highway Act 1835 and the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to drive or ride a carriage of any description (including a bicycle [and now, it seems, a Segway]), or a motor vehicle, on a footpath. The courts have decided that motorised scooter, electric or petrol driven and variously described as gopeds, buzzboards or electric scooters [and segways] are motor vehicles for the purposes of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and cannot be used on the highway or other place to which the public have access. This will include pavements and parks. They may be used on a road if they are type approved to the EU standard E/92/61. The machine should be stamped with the type approval number, which should start with E/92/61. The retailer should be able to show you a copy of the certificate of conformity. If the machine is not stamped it will not be type approved and cannot be used other than on private property. If it is type approved it will be regarded as a moped and the usual requirements regarding crash helmets, tax, insurance and driving licences apply. The majority of these machines are not type approved. Electrical assisted pedal cycles can be ridden on the highway by someone over the age of 14 years provided they have pedals to propel it, the electric motor power output does not exceed 0.2 kilowatts (or 200 Watts) and the electric motor is incapable of propelling the cycle when it is travelling at more than 15 miles an hour. ... In fact the very loose wording of the definition of a motorcycle specifically seems intended to catch any such vehicle.
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.

19th January 2011, 06:25 AM	#6
LTC8K6 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 12,657	How is an unemployed fellow able to afford one?
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

19th January 2011, 06:27 AM	#7
Hellbound Abiogenic Spongiform Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a handbasket Posts: 8,922	Originally Posted by Skwinty Didn't George dubbya fall off one? Didn't one of the Segway company owners kill himself by riding a segway off a cliff? Why not make it illegal for idiots to own one? No, you're getting this wrong. We should make it mandatory for idiots to own one, and use it at all times.

19th January 2011, 06:27 AM	#8
Skwinty Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The far side Posts: 4,972	Originally Posted by LTC8K6 How is an unemployed fellow able to afford one? The dole?
	__________________ What is reality? Nothing but a collective hunch. --Lily Tomlin

19th January 2011, 06:27 AM	#9
gumboot lorcutus.tolere Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 23,121	Legislators are notoriously slow to catch up with reality. This comes as no surprise. What's the legal status in the UK of those silly little electric car things which you see old people pottering about on? Seems to me the same rule should apply.
	__________________ O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi. A fan of fantasy? Check out Project Dreamforge.

19th January 2011, 06:31 AM	#11
Policenaut Infidel Defiler Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Shadow Moses Island Posts: 2,193	I think there's some 180 year old law that prevents them from being ridden on the sidewalk and they are also banned from the streets because they don't conform to some safety standard. It's almost a catch 22. Anyway I'm sure everyone will have fun driving their segways up and down the driveway.

19th January 2011, 06:33 AM	#12
LTC8K6 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 12,657	Originally Posted by richardm He's unemployed now. There's no suggestion that he was unemployed when he bought it; in fact the article says specifically that he bought it to help him travel to work, which is not something that the unemployed generally bother with How does a factory worker afford one?
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

19th January 2011, 06:42 AM	#14
LTC8K6 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 12,657	Originally Posted by gumboot The obvious solution seems to be to get it type approved. It would have to have a bunch of stuff added to it, I believe. Lights and indicators, etc. In The Independent, he's a miner, not a factory worker... Quote: A judge yesterday fined a former miner from Barnsley for riding a Segway on the pavement because, the legal eagle decreed, he was "inexorably driven to the conclusion" that the device is a motor vehicle.
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

19th January 2011, 06:48 AM	#15
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	Originally Posted by LTC8K6 How does a factory worker afford one? Mind you if you consider that you don't need insurance, road fund licence, MOT or petrol, it might be thought of as being a cheaper option than a second hand car. (If you could actually use it, that is) Originally Posted by gumboot Legislators are notoriously slow to catch up with reality. This comes as no surprise. What's the legal status in the UK of those silly little electric car things which you see old people pottering about on? Seems to me the same rule should apply. They seem to slip through because they're a solution to disability.
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously. Last edited by richardm; 19th January 2011 at 06:50 AM.

19th January 2011, 06:56 AM	#16
LTC8K6 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail Posts: 12,657	Quote: Phil Coates, who bought the Segway on a holiday in Florida Must have been a nice job... Clearly the thing is a motorized vehicle, and it's not intended for the handicapped, so why was it ever allowed on the sidewalk? In most places, bicycles aren't even allowed on the sidewalk. It was allowed on the sidewalk to promote it as a green method of transport. If I put a 12mph governor on a scooter, can I ride it on the sidewalk? It already has a horn and lights and turn signals, plus it makes noise so people can hear it. It's much cleaner and more efficient than a car to get around.
	__________________ What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?

19th January 2011, 07:08 AM	#17
gumboot lorcutus.tolere Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 23,121	Originally Posted by LTC8K6 It would have to have a bunch of stuff added to it, I believe. Lights and indicators, etc. I'm sure that would be pretty straight forward. In fact if you have a browse through the internet you'll find plenty of examples of Segways that already have those things (some of them appear to be custom modifications) and basic lighting (headlight and tail light) are standard accessories.
	__________________ O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi. A fan of fantasy? Check out Project Dreamforge.

19th January 2011, 08:17 AM	#18
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,006	Meh. Stupid vehicle for lazy people with too much money.

19th January 2011, 09:23 AM	#19
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	Originally Posted by WildCat Meh. Stupid vehicle for lazy people with too much money. . LA County Sheriff provides them to their officers at malls here. Some of the "inventory shrinkage" devotees I've seen exiting the stores at high speeds can't be run down on foot!

19th January 2011, 09:47 AM	#20
rwguinn Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 8,432	Originally Posted by gumboot I'm sure that would be pretty straight forward. In fact if you have a browse through the internet you'll find plenty of examples of Segways that already have those things (some of them appear to be custom modifications) and basic lighting (headlight and tail light) are standard accessories. It's putting airbags and seat belts in that have engineering flummoxed...
	__________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275

19th January 2011, 09:56 AM	#21
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by richardm They seem to slip through because ~~they're a solution to disability~~ no elected politician would dare risk telling a motorized wheelchair-bound person they need to stop using it or go to jail because of this unforseen technicality. Fixed.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right? Last edited by Beerina; 19th January 2011 at 09:57 AM.

19th January 2011, 10:47 AM	#22
catsmate1 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Dublin (the one in Ireland) Posts: 7,114	Quote: Segway's illegal on UK pavements AND roads Good. Is it legal to impale their operators on sharpened umbrella tips yet? Originally Posted by commandlinegamer http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...-fined-75.html Can therefore only be ridden on private land. Meanwhile OAPs on motor scooters can continue to cause chaos anywhere. I believe such vehicles are exempted as medical devices. AT least that's my vague memory of the law in Ireland Originally Posted by LTC8K6 It would have to have a bunch of stuff added to it, I believe. Lights and indicators, etc. This is done in some countries, however they have to be registered for road use (and would be subject to road tax), fitted with brakes et cetera. Driving license and insurance would also be needed. Realistically they're to dangerous to pedestrians to be used on footpaths and to dangerous to the operator for road use.

19th January 2011, 11:14 AM	#23
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,006	Now if only they'd make roller-blading on bike paths illegal...

19th January 2011, 11:36 AM	#24
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	Originally Posted by catsmate1 ... I believe such vehicles are exempted as medical devices. AT least that's my vague memory of the law in Ireland ... . Looking at the typical girths of the Sheriffs that use these, medical devices they ain't!

19th January 2011, 02:35 PM	#25
gumboot lorcutus.tolere Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 23,121	Originally Posted by rwguinn It's putting airbags and seat belts in that have engineering flummoxed... Once they've cracked it for motorcycles I'm sure segways won't be far behind.
	__________________ O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi. A fan of fantasy? Check out Project Dreamforge.

20th January 2011, 01:39 AM	#26
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	Originally Posted by Beerina Fixed. Kind of, but Invalid Carriages really are a recognised exception.
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.

20th January 2011, 03:17 AM	#27
Cuddles Decoy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land full of pink fluffy sheeps and bunnies Posts: 16,580	Originally Posted by LTC8K6 Clearly the thing is a motorized vehicle, and it's not intended for the handicapped, so why was it ever allowed on the sidewalk? In most places, bicycles aren't even allowed on the sidewalk. Was it ever explicitly allowed on the pavement? Or was it simply not banned yet because it was new and no-one had quite decided what to do about it yet?
	__________________ I am not a little teapot.

21st January 2011, 06:15 AM	#28
TubbaBlubba Knave of the Dudes Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Communist Kingdom of Sweden Posts: 7,409	Originally Posted by gumboot What's the legal status in the UK of those silly little electric car things which you see old people pottering about on? Seems to me the same rule should apply. They're considered wheelchairs in Sweden. I'd know, I use one and you'll take it from my cold, dead hands.
	__________________ Disagreement begets progress.

21st January 2011, 12:58 PM	#29
Bob Blaylock Forklift Operator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: N38°35' W121°29' Posts: 3,013	I've never ridden a Segway, but from having watched a few of them in operation, it really seems to me that there simply isn't any reasonable place for it in traditional traffic. It's too fast and too heavy to safely mix with pedestrian traffic; too slow and too vulnerable to safely mix with automobile traffic, and it doesn't have the right maneuvering characteristics to safely mix with bicycle traffic. Operating one on sidewalks, in the street, or in bicycle lanes, it seems to me, cannot help but create unreasonable danger to the operator, and to others around him. In order for the Segway to be a practical form of general transportation (and that's assuming that you can call a device that costs more than a good used car, while being slower and having less range than a decent bicycle that costs a tenth as much, can in any way be considered practical) it seems to me that there would have to be separate Segway-only lanes and paths for it t segregate it from the other forms of traffic with which it is incompatible.

21st January 2011, 02:41 PM	#30
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 22,089	Originally Posted by commandlinegamer Segway's illegal on UK pavements AND roads Segway's what illegal on UK pavements AND roads? http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

21st January 2011, 03:30 PM	#31
Rat Not bored. Never bored. Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Leicester, UK Posts: 7,054	Originally Posted by Mojo Segway's what illegal on UK pavements AND roads? http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif That was my initial reaction, but I calmed my inner pedant by reading it as "Segway is illegal". I realize headline writers like to leave out verbs, but it reads better with one, and we are in this instance talking about only one Segway, even if the ruling applies to all others by extension.
	__________________ "Man muß den Menschen vor allem nach seinen Lastern beurteilen. Tugenden können vorgetäuscht sein. Laster sind echt." - Klaus Kinski UKLS 1988- Sitting on the fence throwing stones at both sides.

21st January 2011, 03:58 PM	#32
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by richardm Kind of, but Invalid Carriages really are a recognised exception. Maybe, but I'm willing to bet the motorized wheelchair, probably 100 years old, came along a long time before some legislator decided to lift his nose up in the air, rub his chin, and deign to "permit it". I'm willing to bet someone noticed, went "Oh ****, we better fix it before we look like asses!" and hurriedly fixed the law, with an outside chance they were grandfathered in in initial law creation, though my knee-jerk cynicism doesn't grant a high probability to that.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right? Last edited by Beerina; 21st January 2011 at 04:04 PM.

21st January 2011, 07:20 PM	#33
JeanFromBNA Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 399	I've done several Segway tours, and would love to be able to own one for personal use around town. My business is about five blocks from my house. It would be great to Segway to the office, the bank, the post office, lunch, and back home. Problem is, at $4K - $5K, I can't justify it. I can buy a street-legal used truck for that price, and go anywhere I want. A competent Segway operator is able to use them on sidewalks without problem. You do have to let people know if you are coming up behind them ("On your left.") You can govern the speed with your body movements. I've stood on them in crowds (DC), and gone off road and hands-free at top speed in the bahamas. They are a blast. I don't understand why there has to be a law against their public use. Are there gangs of Segway thugs in the UK running people over? Ruins my plans for London.

22nd January 2011, 05:25 PM	#34
Chris C Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 1,572	Where does that leave electric wheelchairs?

22nd January 2011, 06:18 PM	#35
Bob Blaylock Forklift Operator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: N38°35' W121°29' Posts: 3,013	Originally Posted by JeanFromBNA I've done several Segway tours, and would love to be able to own one for personal use around town. My business is about five blocks from my house. It would be great to Segway to the office, the bank, the post office, lunch, and back home. Problem is, at $4K - $5K, I can't justify it. I can buy a street-legal used truck for that price, and go anywhere I want. Or spend less than a tenth of that for a good bicycle that will do a much better job than a Segway would of covering the particular distances of which you speak. For that matter, over a range of several blocks, you might even find a bicycle more convenient and expedient than a car, depending on what parking conditions are like. Originally Posted by JeanFromBNA I don't understand why there has to be a law against their public use. Are there gangs of Segway thugs in the UK running people over? To me, it's a very obvious issue of safety. I simply do not see these things as being safe to mix on sidewalks with pedestrian traffic. Someone driving a Segway in a pedestrian walkway would, in my opinion, pose an unacceptable danger to the safety of the pedestrians. And I don't see that they have the right speed and maneuvering characteristics to safely mix with automobile or bicycle traffic either. There just isn't any place for them in the existing infrastructure, and as outrageously expensive as they are relative to their potential utility; I just don't see any realistic possibility that they will ever be common enough to justify the necessary modifications that would be necessary to the infrastructure in order to safely accommodate them.

22nd January 2011, 08:15 PM	#36
plumjam Banned Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Valencia, Spain Posts: 7,837	Originally Posted by Skwinty Why not make it illegal for idiots to own one? Cos if they did that they wouldn't sell any. Evidence from the article: Quote: Lembit Opik, the former Liberal Democrat MP who turned up at court to support Mr Coates on his own Segway..
	Last edited by plumjam; 22nd January 2011 at 08:20 PM.

22nd January 2011, 08:31 PM	#37
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,006	Originally Posted by JeanFromBNA A competent Segway operator is able to use them on sidewalks without problem. You do have to let people know if you are coming up behind them ("On your left.") How do you do that if they're wearing an iPod? Surely, you don't expect people to stop wearing iPods and such to indulge people who insist on riding much faster motorized vehicles on the sidewalk?