Muslim researcher explains how 9/11 was made

[JohnG]

mehmetin,

You know that plot you keep coyly hinting at parts of (missile guidance systems fitted to jets, voice morphing technology, planted evidence) but never explaining in detail? Sure it's an evil plan, no doubt, but do you believe that it is a good plan? Is it a sound plan with a decent chance of success? Remember, if you are right about the conspirators, it's not enough that the attacks themselves are successful and Muslims implicated, that's difficult enough. For the plot to be successful, it also has to remain undiscovered for well, at least during the lifetime of the conspirators, if not longer. Even if we grant for the sake of argument that a group of (dozens?, hundreds?, thousands?) of soldiers, bureaucrats, aircraft engineers, common civilians, et al. would agree to participate in such a dastardly scheme against their fellow Americans, who in their right mind would agree to participate in such a perversely unwieldy plot? Let's take a closer look at just one small part of it; your claim that the passengers on the jets were impersonated with voice morphing technology in the airphone/cell phone calls to their loved ones. Have you really thought that through? There are so many opportunities for something to go wrong with the scheme even if (and it's a big "if") the idea could work in principle. To show you just one small and simple way the scheme could have been foiled, here's a true story:

Back in the early nineties an old friend of mine got me a free airline ticket so I could go visit him. He travelled a lot on business and had more frequent flyer miles than he knew what to do with. The only catch was that he had to get the ticket under his name and I therefore had to pretend to be him when checking in at the ticket counter. You may find this very hard to believe (even I do nearly 20 years on), but I actually got away with it. In those days passengers were not expected to show any form of ID, at least not at the airport I was flying out of. As far as the airline is concerned, it was my friend, not I who flew on that flight. Now imagine for a moment that I had been flying on one of the ill-fated flights on the morning of 9/11. Further imagine that Mossad and whoever else you think was involved saw my friend's name on the passenger list and decided that he was one of the calls they were going to fake, little knowing that he isn't actually on the flight. Further imagine that they make the somber call to my friend's parents, only my friend happens to be sitting in their living room with them when the supposed goodbye call from their "son" comes through. That would be pretty strong evidence that there was more to the hijacked flight than met the eye, wouldn't it? That one small slip-up could have given the whole game away. I could name a half dozen other ways off the top of my head that would have completely messed up that part of the plan, causing the entire scheme to come crashing down like a house of cards. Why would they gamble on such an absurdly risky, convoluted (not to mention breathtakingly evil) scheme, when the smallest slip-up could mean the gallows for them and their cohorts?

I've told you before that you believe in your Mossad conspiracy theory because you need to believe it to such an extent that it's virtually impossible to believe anything else at this point. This has blinded you to the utterly absurd theory you are clinging to. It's like someone who pulls into a parking space in a shopping center multi-level parking garage. He leaves the car to do some shopping and comes back an hour later to find his car is missing. He walks up one level in the garage and finds his car in the same relative space he thought he had parked it, only one level higher than he remembered. Believing himself to have a perfect memory, the man will not allow himself to even consider the possibility that he might have simply misremembered where he parked his car.

He checks his car and finds no sign of forced entry and his odometer remains unchanged from when he left the car. Since he is certain of his infallibility, he is forced to conclude that the car was broken into by professionals and that the odometer was possibly tampered with or that the car was towed to the other space as some sort of odd prank. He questions passersby to see if anyone had witnessed the car being moved and everyone he asks insists they saw nothing of the kind. One woman even insists that the car never moved because she saw him pull in to the space. From this our man assumes that the woman and the other witnesses are part of the conspiracy to make him look foolish. The man then goes to the store security team and demands to view their security tapes of the parking garage during the time in question. The Guards show him the tape and the man sees that sure enough, the car wasn't moved or tampered with in any way while the man was in the store. Again, though, the man is sure of his memory and so assumes the guards must be "in on it", too and have tampered with the tape. In the space of a half hour the man has constructed a vast conspiracy theory to explain his car ending up in another space and all because the possibility of him simply being wrong about where he had parked the car was something he was incapable of processing.

Incidentally, the initial premise is also a true story and happened to me. Unlike the proud but paranoid man in my story, however, I pretty much immediately figured that it was far more likely that I had misremembered where I had parked rather than there being some grand conspiracy meant to make me look foolish or even doubt my sanity. While I don't absolutely rule out some sort of odd practical joke involving dozens of conspirators, it seems so unlikely that I don't consider it worth even thinking about. Now, if one of the security guards came forward later and admitted to participating in the scheme, I'd listen to him and based on what he said, reappraise my opinion of what happened, but no one to date has come forward, so it would be quite frankly crazy to give the incident a second thought.

I don't believe you to be a particularly immoral or unintelligent person, but I have to warn you that your prejudices and preconceptions, coupled with a lack of any real knowledge in all of the subjects you have the arrogance to lecture others here on are making you appear to be bigoted and somewhat stupid.

[Zep]

Originally Posted by lordofwaffles

If you were going to build a guidance package for a jetliner, the easiest, and least complicated way would be to build a custom job, as it allow you to build something that fit the plane, rather than mangling a Tomahawk's guidance package, and futzing with the plane to make them both work together. What you are proposing is a stupid complicated solution to a problem that would be better approached in a different way.

I'd like to suggest a potential solution: Get yourself a kamikaze pilot rabid for your cause and 72 virgins who would kill the pilot at an appropriate time and sit in the pilot's seat and fly the plane. He would have simply bought plane tickets legitimately and smuggled some box-cutter knives through lax security. He would need only enough flying training to keep the plane off the ground, shiny side up, and aim it square at the side of a big building, aka the target. He would need a friend along to kill the copilot, and another friend to keep the passengers away from the cockpit door.

Nah... Sounds far more complicated than having a giant Jewish conspiracy shoehorning a useless Tomahawk guidance system into a plane it won't work with, taking off by remote control, killing the crew with Sarin gas, morphing the passenger voices on the phone, guiding the planes without vision into the buildings, and having everyone from the US president down to the lowliest aircraft mechanic plus most of Israel in on the plot to hide it. THAT is a MUCH more likely scenario.

[Oystein]

There is a long list of issues that mehmetin is totally incompetent about. Things he never learned in his life before. and hasn't learned about durig all the years he claims to have investigated 9/11.
Thus, mehmetin
- doesn' know the first thing about aircraft design
- doesn' know how pilots fly planes
- doesn' know how automatic systems fly planes
- doesn' know how airports operate
- doesn' know what air traffic controllers do
- doesn' understand how mobile phones operate
- hasn't heard about airphones
- has fantasies about weapons technology
- has no clue about structural engineering
- is ignorant about logical methods and fallacies
- doesn't know the meaning of the words "evidence" and "proof"
- won't talk or listen to experts (pilots, ATCs, aircraft techs, comm techs, engineers, ...)

What a waste of time.

[Zep]

You do get the feeling he really does know this stuff to some extent, and is being deliberately dense and obtuse solely for the hell of it.

[Sam.I.Am]

Originally Posted by lordofwaffles

The Tomahawk thing is just stupid. It is not a guidance package, it is a whole weapon system. It would be more practical, and safe to do custom work. Why adapt something designed to fly a missile within a certain attack profile to fly something larger with a totally different flight plan? It would be like turning a race car into a tow truck. It is technically possible, but why?

There are several other reasons why it's stupid, I have to be careful what I say about it because I do know more about the weapon and the associated fire control issues than most people so I don't want to accidentally say more than I should and get a visit from NWO Kitty and his minions.

What our Muslim Truther friend here is claiming essentially breaks down to doing a complete redesign of not only the control section of the weapon (physical and software) but a good portion of the fire control equipment that tells it where it is and where it needs to go as well.

I understand why he has to go through these contortions, it mostly has to do with not being able to use the standard auto pilot (because the pilots can simply switch it off from the cockpit). The cruise missile control package has to be used to try and keep it small enough to not be noticed and the Tomahawk just sounds like a sexy solution with a lot of the details still classified to some extent.

What these idiots are ignorant about is what it takes to prepare the weapons guidance systems before it ever moves an inch. It needs to know where it is, where it's going and how to get there for example. It needs several different voltages and amperages being fed to it before its onboard power is used and so on. This doesn't have anything to do with the warhead or the engine, just the control section.

Now then could it be done? Sure, given enough time and money almost anything is possible. Could it be done with nobody noticing? Not a chance in hell, it would take hundreds of people being involved just in the redesign and testing alone never mind installing it, and who's gonna pay for it? You're looking at millions of dollars by the time everything is said and done.

[Oystein]

Originally Posted by Zep

You do get the feeling he really does know this stuff to some extent, and is being deliberately dense and obtuse solely for the hell of it.

No, I don't get this feelin at all. My feeling is that he took odds and ends of things he read elsewhere but didn't understand and put them together to a wild fantasy. Don't mistake his mentioning a few things that do exist for him understanding how they work.

[Oystein]

Originally Posted by Sam.I.Am

...the Tomahawk just sounds like a sexy solution with a lot of the details still classified to some extent.
...

That's why all secret things are so sexy to CTers: You can make any claims about them that you wish to fit them to your personal delusion. Tomahawk guiding systems, weapons grade nano thermite, air- and spaceborne laser weapons... Just because we know so little about these things, truthers are able to claim so much about them.

[alienentity]

Originally Posted by JohnG

I've told you before that you believe in your Mossad conspiracy theory because you need to believe it to such an extent that it's virtually impossible to believe anything else at this point. This has blinded you to the utterly absurd theory you are clinging to. It's like someone who pulls into a parking space in a shopping center multi-level parking garage. He leaves the car to do some shopping and comes back an hour later to find his car is missing. He walks up one level in the garage and finds his car in the same relative space he thought he had parked it, only one level higher than he remembered. Believing himself to have a perfect memory, the man will not allow himself to even consider the possibility that he might have simply misremembered where he parked his car.

He checks his car and finds no sign of forced entry and his odometer remains unchanged from when he left the car. Since he is certain of his infallibility, he is forced to conclude that the car was broken into by professionals and that the odometer was possibly tampered with or that the car was towed to the other space as some sort of odd prank. He questions passersby to see if anyone had witnessed the car being moved and everyone he asks insists they saw nothing of the kind. One woman even insists that the car never moved because she saw him pull in to the space. From this our man assumes that the woman and the other witnesses are part of the conspiracy to make him look foolish. The man then goes to the store security team and demands to view their security tapes of the parking garage during the time in question. The Guards show him the tape and the man sees that sure enough, the car wasn't moved or tampered with in any way while the man was in the store. Again, though, the man is sure of his memory and so assumes the guards must be "in on it", too and have tampered with the tape. In the space of a half hour the man has constructed a vast conspiracy theory to explain his car ending up in another space and all because the possibility of him simply being wrong about where he had parked the car was something he was incapable of processing.

Very well written, but I suspect he will not appreciate its wisdom.

[mehmetin]

Originally Posted by 9/11 Chewy Defense

I'm talking about the killing of innocent (non-combatant) men, women & children.

They're not limited if they have the wealth & resources to carry out a planned attack like 9/11. The Japanese planned to attack Pearl Harbor, that that into account you Tusken Raider.

Well someone was involved in the Middle East, surely wasn't Americans or the British.

Muslims, even extremists, are not killing innocents for religion. In catholicism, "Holy War" means "killing non catholics". In Islam "jihad" does NOT mean "killing non Muslims"; such meaning could NEVER exist in Islam. Jihad means acting for good, peace, justice, ... everything for the common good of humans is considered as Jihad; only some able people should do Jihad.

But if Muslims are attacked by foreign armies, fighting against these armies is also Jihad, because acting against injustice.

The conclusion is simple: Extremisy Muslims are NOT killing innocents. And one should be enough influenced by the catholic holy war principle to believe that people can kill innocents.

Subject closed please, I do not want to waste time on religious discussions. Let's focus facts on 9/11.

[mehmetin]

Originally Posted by Zep

Lastly, if the phone is on and not in flight mode, the speed of travel between cells tends to interfere with message sending (this is in the reference I gave you above , if you had read it). So again, until the aircraft slows down, i.e. is at the airport, the message will be delayed. Most regular international air travellers know this. Honestly, you haven't done any research at all, have you.

If the speed of the plane made it unable to send a short text message, how could it be possible to make a phone call at the same speed and same altitude as Tum Burnett allegedly made?

You debunked nothing. USA government should try to find other evidence than cellular phone calls from high altutide flying aircrafts.

[mehmetin]

Originally Posted by alienentity

Originally Posted by mehmetin
According to the flight route of UA93, the plane was always at about 10000m altitude. .

No.

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo...98837763LtPhuo

In that graphic, the plane is at high altitude, about 35000ft and more, from 9:00 to 9:42. At least two cellular phone calls were made during that time.

So, at least these two phone calls were fake! That means all other phone calls were fake too. Because people who made one call fake, will make all other phone calls.

[Pardalis]

Mehmet, you do know that Bush and co are not Catholics, right?

[alienentity]

Originally Posted by mehmetin

Muslims, even extremists, are not killing innocents for religion

Hmm, someone ought to mention this to the followers of the late Ayatolla Khomeini who issued a fatwa for the death of author Salmon Rushdie for writing his book, 'The Satanic Verses'.

The 1998 Fatwa signed by Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Ahmed Refai Taha, Mir Hamzah and Fazul Rahman. It indicts 'crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on God, his messenger, and Muslims'
And calls for the indiscriminate killing of any American person wherever they can be found...'The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it'

Here, innocent Americans are to be killed because their country is 'occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula'. There is something vaguely religious about this statement.......

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terroris...atwa_1998.html

[alienentity]

Originally Posted by mehmetin

In that graphic, the plane is at high altitude, about 35000ft and more, from 9:00 to 9:42. At least two cellular phone calls were made during that time.

So, at least these two phone calls were fake!

NO.

Quote:

That means all other phone calls were fake too.

NO.

Quote:

Because people who made one call fake, will make all other phone calls.

Since both your earlier assumptions are false, your conclusion is meaningless and false. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Originally Posted by mehmetin

Muslims, even extremists, are not killing innocents for religion. In catholicism, "Holy War" means "killing non catholics". In Islam "jihad" does NOT mean "killing non Muslims"; such meaning could NEVER exist in Islam. Jihad means acting for good, peace, justice, ... everything for the common good of humans is considered as Jihad; only some able people should do Jihad.

But if Muslims are attacked by foreign armies, fighting against these armies is also Jihad, because acting against injustice.

The conclusion is simple: Extremisy Muslims are NOT killing innocents. And one should be enough influenced by the catholic holy war principle to believe that people can kill innocents.

Subject closed please, I do not want to waste time on religious discussions. Let's focus facts on 9/11.

Radical muslims are killing innocent un-armed civilians. Hell they're doing it right now in Afghanistan, Iraq & else where in the Middle East.

Jihad is "Holy War" you stupid Jawa.

Us Americans were attacked on 9/11 because some retard wannabe muslim named Usama Bin Laden wanted to show what he had against the U.S. We acted & showed force & he ran & hide behind innocent people. What he did was injustice to humanity & life.

Quote:

Extremisy Muslims are NOT killing innocents.

Yes they are, you're just a good little muslim covering up their tracks. Ain't gonna fly here with me boy.

Case isn't closed, you just opened up a can of worms.

Edit: How come I get the feeling that Mehmetin is a terrorist sympathizer?

[alienentity]

Since we have airphone records, including the seats from which those calls were made, we have strong proof. You have not been able to get past this fact, so you're attempting to handwave it using faulty logic. That won't work.

Since you do not have records of the cell phone calls (from the cellphone providers) you actually do not have proof that they were actually made.
You have failed to produce sufficient evidence to support your claim about the calls. Therefore your conclusions are not factual, but speculative.

[alienentity]

Need I remind you of your earlier false claim 'the plane was always at about 10000m altitude. '

You were wrong. Now you're trying to shift the goalposts. But you were wrong. It's too late to take back your statements - they simply show how faulty your thinking is.

[Pardalis]

Originally Posted by mehmetin

Subject closed please, I do not want to waste time on religious discussions. Let's focus facts on 9/11.

No, it's not closed, it's the only reason why you deny those events.

You are in denial, you start with a false conclusion that no Muslim can do no wrong, and you work backwards from there and try to disprove reality and ignore the facts of the events of that day because they don't fit your preconceived conclusion.

This is not critical thinking.

What you need to do is stop feeling victimized, stop trying to prove that Muslims weren't involved, and look at the facts objectively, and let them lead you to a conclusion of what happened, whatever that may be.

[alienentity]

Originally Posted by mehmetin

In that graphic, the plane is at high altitude, about 35000ft and more, from 9:00 to 9:42. At least two cellular phone calls were made during that time.

According to the FBI records of his cell phone (from his provider) only the last call he made was made by cellphone. The plane was at a low altitude at that time.

If you were a competent researcher, you would already know this. Shame on you for your bad research, and also your belief in malicious and untrue myths.
Please stop making your false claims and correct yourself from this point forward.

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Im...il_11_2006.pdf

ETA Ed Felt made a cellphone call at 9:58 a.m. from the lavatory.

[mehmetin]

Originally Posted by lordofwaffles

If you were going to build a guidance package for a jetliner, the easiest, and least complicated way would be to build a custom job, as it allow you to build something that fit the plane, rather than mangling a Tomahawk's guidance package, and futzing with the plane to make them both work together. What you are proposing is a stupid complicated solution to a problem that would be better approached in a different way.

By telling they installed a modified tomahawk control system, I mean they developped a custom system based on thomahawk control system. The main computer and all electronics are almost not modified, only the servo actuators are designed to be able to simulate the movements of the arms of the pilots. In that case, there is no relation between the electronic systems of the plane and the added control system, same as the human pilots who have no connection with the systems of the plane.

In automation view point, such system is enough to make the planes hit their targets.

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Originally Posted by mehmetin

By telling they installed a modified tomahawk control system, I mean they developped a custom system based on thomahawk control system. The main computer and all electronics are almost not modified, only the servo actuators are designed to be able to simulate the movements of the arms of the pilots. In that case, there is no relation between the electronic systems of the plane and the added control system, same as the human pilots who have no connection with the systems of the plane.

In automation view point, such system is enough to make the planes hit their targets.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to brainwash a person, make them believe that if they go as a martyr they'll get 72 virgins in heaven & then commit themselves in a suicide attack while screaming "Allah Ackbar"?

Answer: Yes!

I'm testing you right now!

[Thunder]

Fact: Muslim extremists have killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq. Its a horrible daily occurence that the Iraqi people somehow are able to live with.

[DGM]

Originally Posted by mehmetin

By telling they installed a modified tomahawk control system, I mean they developped a custom system based on thomahawk control system. The main computer and all electronics are almost not modified, only the servo actuators are designed to be able to simulate the movements of the arms of the pilots. In that case, there is no relation between the electronic systems of the plane and the added control system, same as the human pilots who have no connection with the systems of the plane.

In automation view point, such system is enough to make the planes hit their targets.

You can dream about this all you want. What you can't explain is how it's incorporated into the plane and how no one noticed.


This is a fatal flaw in your "logic".

[Dog Town]

Originally Posted by DGM

This is a fatal flaw in your "logic".

A long list that grows, with each new post of his.

[mehmetin]

Originally Posted by JohnG

mehmetin,

You know that plot you keep coyly hinting at parts of (missile guidance systems fitted to jets, voice morphing technology, planted evidence) but never explaining in detail?

Your arguments in that post are sincere, and I thanks you for your sincerity.

The details that I did not explain are included in my book; I can’t explain everything in several forums.

I do not ask you to believe me. But every detail of that scenario has been decided after long checks, interconnections with other evidences, … check the possibility, the reliability, the best manner to make it, remove all possible problems, …

Still two days ago, I found that the place where the control system was installed may not be the nose of the plane. I must check that better. I had to make such changes too many times, and every time it was a new challenge, a new problem to solve.

Originally Posted by JohnG

Sure it's an evil plan, no doubt, but do you believe that it is a good plan? Is it a sound plan with a decent chance of success?

If I have to do it, I’ll make it in such manner (but do not wrry, I’ll never do such action, it’s out of my life principles).

Originally Posted by JohnG

Remember, if you are right about the conspirators, it's not enough that the attacks themselves are successful and Muslims implicated, that's difficult enough. For the plot to be successful, it also has to remain undiscovered for well, at least during the lifetime of the conspirators, if not longer.

Technically it’s unimaginable to adapt tomahawk control system on a civil aircraft. First I designed to control system, the guidance algorithm, and finally I was thinking where to place the computer which contains the software. At that time, I became aware that a tomahawk system could easily be installed in the aircraft. That immediately solved several problems like “testing a new special software”, which itself impossible to be made for such one shot secret operation, like the reliability of the system, the ground controls, the communication with the ground, … Everything exists and used since longtime.

Originally Posted by JohnG

Even if we grant for the sake of argument that a group of (dozens?, hundreds?, thousands?) of soldiers, bureaucrats, aircraft engineers, common civilians, et al. would agree to participate in such a dastardly scheme against their fellow Americans, who in their right mind would agree to participate in such a perversely unwieldy plot?

Most of the executing team were Israelis (that’s why Israeli Spy Ring is involved). Those people are used for secret criminal operations, they’ll remain silent. That’s why the Americans who had to participate in the actions had to be Jew people related to Israel. Pete Zalewski (I doubt, but it may also be as follow: Some people told him to give two successive orders within 16 seconds, without telling him any more about the complete events, even in that case, he should be aware of his action). For the main deciders, they are all sometens people under Bush himself; Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfovitw, … CEO of Raytheon (company who had to make the design of the control system), some extremely rich people like Larry Silverstein, or port authority director Lewis M. Eisenberg, the secret team of Rumsfeld.

We must expect about hundreds people who participated.

Originally Posted by JohnG

Let's take a closer look at just one small part of it; your claim that the passengers on the jets were impersonated with voice morphing technology in the airphone/cell phone calls to their loved ones. Have you really thought that through? There are so many opportunities for something to go wrong with the scheme even if (and it's a big "if") the idea could work in principle. To show you just one small and simple way the scheme could have been foiled, here's a true story:

Back in the early nineties an old friend of mine got me a free airline ticket so I could go visit him. He travelled a lot on business and had more frequent flyer miles than he knew what to do with. The only catch was that he had to get the ticket under his name and I therefore had to pretend to be him when checking in at the ticket counter. You may find this very hard to believe (even I do nearly 20 years on), but I actually got away with it. In those days passengers were not expected to show any form of ID, at least not at the airport I was flying out of. As far as the airline is concerned, it was my friend, not I who flew on that flight. Now imagine for a moment that I had been flying on one of the ill-fated flights on the morning of 9/11. Further imagine that Mossad and whoever else you think was involved saw my friend's name on the passenger list and decided that he was one of the calls they were going to fake, little knowing that he isn't actually on the flight. Further imagine that they make the somber call to my friend's parents, only my friend happens to be sitting in their living room with them when the supposed goodbye call from their "son" comes through. That would be pretty strong evidence that there was more to the hijacked flight than met the eye, wouldn't it? That one small slip-up could have given the whole game away. I could name a half dozen other ways off the top of my head that would have completely messed up that part of the plan, causing the entire scheme to come crashing down like a house of cards. Why would they gamble on such an absurdly risky, convoluted (not to mention breathtakingly evil) scheme, when the smallest slip-up could mean the gallows for them and their cohorts?

This problem was solved with the wire tap of the passengers made by the “Israeli Spy Ring” during the weeks before the events to be sure the intended people were the right persons who will board the planes.

Any way, you understood that the reliability of the operation is too much important and that makes some working methods to extremely sure!

But you are right, some problems happened, some mistakes happened, but they got minor consequences. For example:
- The seconds plane which has not been adjusted about PID parameters, it was nearly missing its target.
- Mark Bingham speaking to his mother and telling : “Mrs. Bingham, this is your son Tom Bingham”. Can you imagine a people speaking to his mother like that? But this simply solwed by telling “Mark is always speaking in that official way!”
- Mineta’s testimony before the commission. Just removed from the final report.

Originally Posted by JohnG

I've told you before that you believe in your Mossad conspiracy theory because you need to believe it to such an extent that it's virtually impossible to believe anything else at this point. This has blinded you to the utterly absurd theory you are clinging to.

You can definitely forget that. Before mid 2007, I was unaware that Israelis made the strikes. When I studied Bazant’s case I began to think about Israelis.

Originally Posted by JohnG

It's like someone who pulls into a parking space in a shopping center multi-level parking garage. He leaves the car to do some shopping and comes back an hour later to find his car is missing. He walks up one level in the garage and finds his car in the same relative space he thought he had parked it, only one level higher than he remembered. Believing himself to have a perfect memory, the man will not allow himself to even consider the possibility that he might have simply misremembered where he parked his car.

He checks his car and finds no sign of forced entry and his odometer remains unchanged from when he left the car. Since he is certain of his infallibility, he is forced to conclude that the car was broken into by professionals and that the odometer was possibly tampered with or that the car was towed to the other space as some sort of odd prank. He questions passersby to see if anyone had witnessed the car being moved and everyone he asks insists they saw nothing of the kind. One woman even insists that the car never moved because she saw him pull in to the space. From this our man assumes that the woman and the other witnesses are part of the conspiracy to make him look foolish. The man then goes to the store security team and demands to view their security tapes of the parking garage during the time in question. The Guards show him the tape and the man sees that sure enough, the car wasn't moved or tampered with in any way while the man was in the store. Again, though, the man is sure of his memory and so assumes the guards must be "in on it", too and have tampered with the tape. In the space of a half hour the man has constructed a vast conspiracy theory to explain his car ending up in another space and all because the possibility of him simply being wrong about where he had parked the car was something he was incapable of processing.

Good scenario, but you must admit that this highly improbable. We can all have some memory gap, forget something, … But also, the car of that man was clean, nothing has changed, but in that case of 9/11 there are too many unanswered questions.

Also, as I told here up, I had to change several times my opinion when I reached some impossible things.

Originally Posted by JohnG

Incidentally, the initial premise is also a true story and happened to me. Unlike the proud but paranoid man in my story, however, I pretty much immediately figured that it was far more likely that I had misremembered where I had parked rather than there being some grand conspiracy meant to make me look foolish or even doubt my sanity. While I don't absolutely rule out some sort of odd practical joke involving dozens of conspirators, it seems so unlikely that I don't consider it worth even thinking about. Now, if one of the security guards came forward later and admitted to participating in the scheme, I'd listen to him and based on what he said, reappraise my opinion of what happened, but no one to date has come forward, so it would be quite frankly crazy to give the incident a second thought.

Let me guess: It’s highly probable that you are alder than 40 years! Isn’t it?

Originally Posted by JohnG

I don't believe you to be a particularly immoral or unintelligent person, but I have to warn you that your prejudices and preconceptions, coupled with a lack of any real knowledge in all of the subjects you have the arrogance to lecture others here on are making you appear to be bigoted and somewhat stupid.

Thanks for your kind warning. But, I won’t change my opinion on basis that some other people say some insults, preconceptions about me! I am ready to change my opinion and even apologize if any people prove with extremely strong evidence that my work is false.

I did not made so long work for getting into wrong conclusions. I will not defend baseless wrong conclusions!

Any way, if you have any strong argument that shows I am wrong, you are welcome, I’ll be glad to read your arguments.

[mehmetin]

Originally Posted by alienentity

Hmm, someone ought to mention this to the followers of the late Ayatolla Khomeini who issued a fatwa for the death of author Salmon Rushdie for writing his book, 'The Satanic Verses'.

Even in that case of Salman Rushdie, they don’t told we ask to kill him because he is not Muslim! The ytold “we ask to kill him because he insulted our prohphete”. Ok, even that request to kill is not defendable, but the reason is NOT, and definitely NOT, because he is not Muslim! There is an attack, and those people answered to that attack. May be a wrong reaction to a bad provocation, but it’s not killing innocents without any reason.

Originally Posted by alienentity

The 1998 Fatwa signed by Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Ahmed Refai Taha, Mir Hamzah and Fazul Rahman. It indicts 'crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on God, his messenger, and Muslims'

I do not support such speech of extremist people. But remember, when Bill Clinton was trying to make peace between Israelis and Palestinians, he was “loved” in Muslim countries.

Originally Posted by alienentity

And calls for the indiscriminate killing of any American person wherever they can be found... 'The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it'
Here, innocent Americans are to be killed because their country is 'occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula'. There is something vaguely religious about this statement.......

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terroris...atwa_1998.html

That fatwa of OBL represent only the opinion of OBL. It is like the fatwa on Salman Rushdie, NOBODY applied it. Such fatwa is not a direct proof that Muslims made 9/11. If USA arrived to use such crazy evidence to prove that 9/11 was made by Muslims, that shows how their arguments are weak and also FALSE.

Even those most extremist people in Islam, need the “occupation of Muslims countries” to justify their fatwa. If there was no occupation, there will be no fatwa. It’s not Christian holy war.

Let’s focus facts of 9/11.

[uke2se]

Originally Posted by mehmetin

I am ready to change my opinion and even apologize if any people prove with extremely strong evidence that my work is false.

Then you should apologize. Strong evidence has already been presented to show that your work (based on no evidence) is false.

Originally Posted by mehmetin

I did not made so long work for getting into wrong conclusions.

Apparently you did.

Originally Posted by mehmetin

I will not defend baseless wrong conclusions!

But that's exactly what you're doing.

[uke2se]

Originally Posted by mehmetin

That fatwa of OBL represent only the opinion of OBL. It is like the fatwa on Salman Rushdie, NOBODY applied it. Such fatwa is not a direct proof that Muslims made 9/11.

No, but it's direct proof that some Muslims would kill others, which you asserted was not the case.

Originally Posted by mehmetin

If USA arrived to use such crazy evidence to prove that 9/11 was made by Muslims, that shows how their arguments are weak and also FALSE.

Thankfully, nobody has used that as proof that Muslims carried out 9/11. There's plenty of evidence for that elsewhere.

Originally Posted by mehmetin

Even those most extremist people in Islam, need the “occupation of Muslims countries” to justify their fatwa.

Nobody cares how they justify murder, only the fact that the commit murder. The 9/11 events was the premeditated and unprovoked murder of around 3000 innocent people by Muslim extremists.

Originally Posted by mehmetin

If there was no occupation, there will be no fatwa. It’s not Christian holy war.

Like I said, nobody cares how you want to justify the murder of 3000 innocent people. That you would even attempt to do so is deeply offensive to any right minded person.

Originally Posted by mehmetin

Let’s focus facts of 9/11.

You were the one who brought religion into this. Not us.

[DGM]

Originally Posted by mehmetin

The details that I did not explain are included in my book; I can’t explain everything in several forums.

In your book do you explain why they would implement the most complex plan in the history of ..........forever?

[mehmetin]

Originally Posted by alienentity

According to the FBI records of his cell phone (from his provider) only the last call he made was made by cellphone. The plane was at a low altitude at that time.

FBI is lying. The family clearly told from the first to the last phone calls, they saw the cell phone number of their phone. So, someone was simulating his phone number. Do not search unsupported claims. US government claims are unfounded, they are lying.

[DGM]

Originally Posted by mehmetin

FBI is lying. The family clearly told from the first to the last phone calls, they saw the cell phone number of their phone. So, someone was simulating his phone number. Do not search unsupported claims. US government claims are unfounded, they are lying.

How does one go about deciding who's telling the truth and what is real? Is it a "gut" thing?

[mehmetin]

Originally Posted by Thunder

Fact: Muslim extremists have killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq. Its a horrible daily occurence that the Iraqi people somehow are able to live with.

The only people who kill civilians in Iraq are USA army by their invasion. Most of the attacks are also made by USA and Israeli mercenaries. The situation is simple: USA is ruling Iraq, so USA is the main responsible of the crimes in that country.

[mehmetin]

Originally Posted by DGM

You can dream about this all you want. What you can't explain is how it's incorporated into the plane and how no one noticed.


This is a fatal flaw in your "logic".

Very easy:
- I explained how it's incorporated into the plane. The system has only to crimp on the cables and move them as the pilots move them.
- As this is placed under the pilots, an inaccessible area for common people. The cables should be inaccessible for common people.

You have no clue, the install of a modified tomahawk system is definitely possible and is the best solution to get reliable control system that can do the attacks and that can be well hidden from public.

[mehmetin]

Originally Posted by DGM

How does one go about deciding who's telling the truth and what is real? Is it a "gut" thing?

Do you mean that the family is lying?

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by mehmetin
FBI is lying.

prove it.

[twinstead]

I hope the only reason you say the FBI is lying isn't because they are saying something that contradicts your position mehmetin. For your sake I hope you have some evidence that they are lying.

[DGM]

Originally Posted by mehmetin

Very easy:
- I explained how it's incorporated into the plane. The system has only to crimp on the cables and move them as the pilots move them.
- As this is placed under the pilots, an inaccessible area for common people. The cables should be inaccessible for common people.

You have no clue, the install of a modified tomahawk system is definitely possible and is the best solution to get reliable control system that can do the attacks and that can be well hidden from public.

You did not "explain" anything.

Using the same logic and proof you use. Its impossible to wire the plane to do what you say because the wire are inaccessible and bundled. There, I proved it.


You don't have a double standard for proof do you?

[George152]

Originally Posted by mehmetin

In that graphic, the plane is at high altitude, about 35000ft and more, from 9:00 to 9:42. At least two cellular phone calls were made during that time.

So, at least these two phone calls were fake! That means all other phone calls were fake too. Because people who made one call fake, will make all other phone calls.

Pure comedy...
And wrong.

[DGM]

Originally Posted by mehmetin

Do you mean that the family is lying?

No, In general. You have said multiple times that evidence was fake or someone is lying. Do you have a standard to determine this?

[George152]

Originally Posted by mehmetin

Very easy:
- I explained how it's incorporated into the plane. The system has only to crimp on the cables and move them as the pilots move them.
- As this is placed under the pilots, an inaccessible area for common people. The cables should be inaccessible for common people.

Ah. Small point here. Why would you attach cables to hydraulic pipes?