Linux - Page 11

Captain_Snort · 7th January 2012, 12:02 PM

I grew to loved Gnome2, switched to it when KDE4 was released. Was what KDE3 was, very very customisable with many wee tweaks you could use to increase productivity. Then Unity and one size fits all or Gnome3, another size fits all. So I gave KDE another try and have found it has matured greatly. Funnily enough almost back to being a proper desktop as we all know and love again. It is well worth a try, maybe a bit bloated, but some people claim it uses less memory than Gnome3 or Unity, all I know it is pretty snappy. Mind you I am seriously thinking of dumping ubuntu as they cant even be bothered to make the thesarus work in Libreoffice using en_gb localisation for the last 3 releases.

As for synaptic being left out of the default ubuntu install, just need to add one more thing to your first ever command on each new system, for me that will now be.

sudo apt-get install synaptic htop mc

Donn · 7th January 2012, 12:22 PM

Gnome 2 was fabulous. Subtle, stable, sensible. Sniff...

jt512 · 7th January 2012, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Donn

A Haskell-driven WM? Ouch. I bow to your brain... as I shudder.

You don't really need to know any Haskell to use Xmonad. You can configure it by following examples. In fact, it works quite well out-of-the-box using the default configuration file.

Donn · 7th January 2012, 01:03 PM

I'm sure you can. I was kidding around. I have been thinking Fluxbox, how does xmonad compare?

jt512 · 7th January 2012, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Donn

I'm sure you can. I was kidding around. I have been thinking Fluxbox, how does xmonad compare?

I haven't used Fluxbox, but I've used Openbox, which seems to be similar. Neither is a tiling window manager like Xmonad is, so it's going to be a very different user experience. With a tiling window manager, windows don't overlap, so you never have to use a mouse to move, focus, and resize your windows, and your screen space is used efficiently.

Bram Kaandorp · 7th January 2012, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Donn

Gnome 2 was fabulous. Subtle, stable, sensible. Sniff...

I only hope at least one fork survives.

Come to think of it, I can't think of a better GUI to use than a fork of Gnome. I already use a fork of Amarok (Exaile), a Linux alternative for Windows Live Messenger (Emesene), a fork of a fork of a fork of sun office (LibreOffice).

Heck, Linux itself is based on a fork of Unix. And wasn't Unix also a fork?

Either way, I will sorely miss Gnome, to the point that I might even consider moving back to Windows. Imagine that...

Blue Mountain · 7th January 2012, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp

Have you been living in a cave? There was an immense falling out over how buggy KDE 4 was.

Uh, yeah, there was.

Even Linus switched away from KDE when 4 came out. Not sure what he's using now.

Quote:

You know what, if I can find adequate KDE 4 alternatives for many of the Gnome dependent programs I use, I might switch to that after all. It can't be worse than Gnome 3. Right?

A lot of Gnome stuff will run on KDE, because distributions often install both sets of libraries. But that's not to say the applications you use in Gnome will run. And if you switch to the KDE equivalent, you have to get used to its quirks and put up with the odd feature that you liked in the Gnome app but isn't in the KDE one.

I tend to be fair bit "old school" and use a lot of generic applications (I've been using Linux for about 15 years now.) I prefer Firefox to Konqueror for web browsing. I use LibreOffice instead of whatever "office" apps KDE may offer. I use the Midnight Commander for filesystem stuff because it's fast and I know a lot of its keyboard shortcuts. I even use a combination of Midnight Commander and the ancient 'xv' program for maintaining my digital photograph collection, even though Gwenview and digiKam have features that I would find useful if I bothered to invest the time to learn them properly. I use the Gimp for picture editing. I much prefer plain old text files that I can edit with vim, although recently I've taken to using Kate as well.

All of these are independent of the actual desktop environment I'm running. The only KDE-specific programs I run are KvIRC, Kontact (all-in-one Email / Contacts/ Calendar /To-do List / RSS Feeds / Journal / Notebook / Time tracker), Amarok, and Kate.

Quote:

I mean, does KDE still give the user all freedom to change things?

I'm not sure what you're wanting to change, so I can't really address it. I do know that KDE's control centre has many more options than Gnome's does.

Bram Kaandorp · 7th January 2012, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by Blue Mountain

Uh, yeah, there was.

Even Linus switched away from KDE when 4 came out. Not sure what he's using now.

Seeing as how he left KDE, then Gnome, I think he goes command-line now.

Quote:

A lot of Gnome stuff will run on KDE, because distributions often install both sets of libraries. But that's not to say the applications you use in Gnome will run. And if you switch to the KDE equivalent, you have to get used to its quirks and put up with the odd feature that you liked in the Gnome app but isn't in the KDE one.

I have noticed that many of the non-distro programs I use are architecture independent (if that's the word). Totally accidental.

Quote:

I tend to be fair bit "old school" and use a lot of generic applications (I've been using Linux for about 15 years now.) I prefer Firefox to Konqueror for web browsing. I use LibreOffice instead of whatever "office" apps KDE may offer. I use the Midnight Commander for filesystem stuff because it's fast and I know a lot of its keyboard shortcuts. I even use a combination of Midnight Commander and the ancient 'xv' program for maintaining my digital photograph collection, even though Gwenview and digiKam have features that I would find useful if I bothered to invest the time to learn them properly. I use the Gimp for picture editing. I much prefer plain old text files that I can edit with vim, although recently I've taken to using Kate as well.

I tend to do the same. The first thing to go is Evolution, because I use a web-based mail service.

The only thing I'm struggling with now is finding a good PIM (organizer program). I use Osmo now, but through some weird accident I only have my tasks in the form of a .ical file, which I exported from Osmo, but it has no way of importing it (illogical).

Quote:

All of these are independent of the actual desktop environment I'm running. The only KDE-specific programs I run are KvIRC, Kontact (all-in-one Email / Contacts/ Calendar /To-do List / RSS Feeds / Journal / Notebook / Time tracker), Amarok, and Kate.

I'm not sure what you're wanting to change, so I can't really address it. I do know that KDE's control centre has many more options than Gnome's does.

I found out that it's very customisable, compared to Gnome. Maybe I'll give it a go when 10.04 hits the EOL.

'Till that time, I want to figure out if someone has successfully forked Gnome already (MATE seems promising, but it isn't released yet).

Alan · 7th January 2012, 04:30 PM

Did you see this way to get window buttons without interfering with the strange notification thing down the buttom: putting the windows in the top panel? You could try https://extensions.gnome.org/extensi...tend-left-box/ and then https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/25/window-list/ to put the windows list in the top panel in Gnome Shell.

I tried them out and they don't work for me for some reason but others report it is good.

If the panel in Gnome Shell was more like the bar in Unity, in terms of the global menu and indicators, then I would be super happy with it.

Bram Kaandorp · 7th January 2012, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Alan

Did you see this way to get window buttons without interfering with the strange notification thing down the buttom: putting the windows in the top panel? You could try https://extensions.gnome.org/extensi...tend-left-box/ and then https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/25/window-list/ to put the windows list in the top panel in Gnome Shell.

I tried them out and they don't work for me for some reason but others report it is good.

That wouldn't work for me. The top panel would just get crammed full.

Actually, I'm back in good old 10.04. It has support until April 2013 so I won't worry too much now.

ETA: I haven't even mentioned the main reason for my leaving Gnome Shell/Gnome 3;

When I Transfer data from my external disk to my internal, it freezes up in long enough bursts to be unusable. This might be a temporary issue, but at that moment, it was the last straw.

The Norseman · 7th January 2012, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by Donn

A Haskell-driven WM? Ouch. I bow to your brain... as I shudder.

What's wrong with Haskell in this instance?

Donn · 8th January 2012, 12:07 AM

Nothing wrong with Haskell. I lack the gray cells to comprehend it, is all. I kinda pretend I can do Python, but Haskell is beyond my feeble powers.

I was picturing a config file that required Haskell code...

jt512 · 8th January 2012, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by Donn

I was picturing a config file that required Haskell code...

The Xmonad config file is written in Haskell, but, paradoxically, you don't have to know Haskell to edit the config file. You can just follow the examples in the default config file.

Xero · 8th January 2012, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by Alan

Did you see this way to get window buttons without interfering with the strange notification thing down the buttom: putting the windows in the top panel? You could try https://extensions.gnome.org/extensi...tend-left-box/ and then https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/25/window-list/ to put the windows list in the top panel in Gnome Shell.

I tried them out and they don't work for me for some reason but others report it is good.

If the panel in Gnome Shell was more like the bar in Unity, in terms of the global menu and indicators, then I would be super happy with it.

Thanks for the tip, just added the Window List one to my Linux Mint 12 install, and I find the window list in the top panel far more responsive than the one provided by Mint in the bottom panel.

daggerstab · 8th January 2012, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp

Seeing as how he left KDE, then Gnome, I think he goes command-line now.

XFCE, actually. Which is the thing I also ran to after being forced to use Unity and trying Gnome 3 and KDE. After a bit of playing with the configuration you can get the desktop to look like Gnome 2. An early, unpolished version of Gnome 2.

Xero · 8th January 2012, 07:23 AM

If the XFCE devs were not so dead-set determined NOT to allow/intro tabbed file-browsing, I'd be inclined to give it a good go, but it's far too limiting once you're used to having it.

daggerstab · 8th January 2012, 07:43 AM

Well, I used Nautilus as it was left over from my Unity/Gnome installation.

I must admit I haven't used XFCE a lot, though - I made the foolish mistake of updating Ubuntu on a desktop computer that I rarely use. The netbook that I'm working on at the moment is still running Ubuntu 11.04 with Gnome 2, and will probably run it until the end of support for that release (October 2012, just in time for Ubuntu 12.10). I hope that this will be enough time for Canonical, Gnome and XFCE to improve their offerings.

The Norseman · 8th January 2012, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Donn

Nothing wrong with Haskell. I lack the gray cells to comprehend it, is all. I kinda pretend I can do Python, but Haskell is beyond my feeble powers.

I was picturing a config file that required Haskell code...

Ah, okay. I was interested in learning (as in self-teaching) Haskell, so I was curious if you knew something that I should know.

On-topic: I downloaded and burned the newest DVD of Linux Mint Debian with xfce this time. There are some features which I have really liked about KDE though that Gnome just either can't do or I can't find how to do them.

Alan · 8th January 2012, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by daggerstab

XFCE, actually. Which is the thing I also ran to after being forced to use Unity and trying Gnome 3 and KDE. After a bit of playing with the configuration you can get the desktop to look like Gnome 2. An early, unpolished version of Gnome 2.

Torvalds likes Gnome Shell more than he used to.
"Hey, with gnome-tweak-tool and the dock extension, gnome-3.2 is starting to look almost usable."
https://plus.google.com/102150693225...7dqYoR?amp&amp

Bram Kaandorp · 8th January 2012, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Alan

Torvalds likes Gnome Shell more than he used to.
"Hey, with gnome-tweak-tool and the dock extension, gnome-3.2 is starting to look almost usable."
https://plus.google.com/102150693225...7dqYoR?amp&amp

Now that's just low.

Brian-M · 11th January 2012, 04:45 AM

I'm wondering if someone can explain this to me...

Tonight I tried running prboom with a copy of DOOM2.WAD I found on one of my old backup CDs. It worked fine, except it wouldn't let me save the game. After I renamed DOOM2.WAD to doom2.wad it was able to save.

Can anyone explain why the capitalization of the WAD filename makes a difference? As long as the correct capitalization is given at the command line it can read the file, and I know games aren't saved in the WAD file itself, so is there any reason for this problem to exist?

Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp

Heck, Linux itself is based on a fork of Unix. And wasn't Unix also a fork?

No, it's BSD that's a fork of Unix. GNU/Linux is a Unix clone, or Unix-like OS, but isn't actually derived from Unix.

Unix isn't a fork of anything. It was the successor of Multics, an experimental operating system that had far too many problems to be of any commercial use, but it wasn't based on Multics. They started from scratch with Unics (which was later renamed Unix).

Brian-M · 11th January 2012, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by Donn

*Untested*
If your BIOS is advanced enough, it should allow you to boot off an external USB drive. If you set the boot order to include that drive FIRST then you might get what you want:
1. USB in: whatever o/s is on there gets booted.
2. USB not in/off : Next drive in line gets booted.

hth

I've done that with Puppy Linux. Works fine. I think most newer versions of BIOS will support bootable USB drives.

Originally Posted by elgarak

I cannot imagine going back to these bulky standard PC keyboards. Or these really old IBM keyboards that feel they came out of an IBM Selectric that some oldsters still swear on. Ugh.

You mean the Model M? I'm a proud owner of one of those, circa 1990, and wouldn't want any other.

They don't only feel like they came out of an IBM Selectric, they use exactly the same patented buckling spring as the Selectric did. Apparently Unicomp still manufactures them.

But I've noticed (by playing around with keyboards in stores) that most of the higher quality keyboards available now have a similar feel to the old Model M (minus the click).

Lolly · 11th January 2012, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Brian-M

As long as the correct capitalization is given at the command line it can read the file, and I know games aren't saved in the WAD file itself, so is there any reason for this problem to exist?

How are you saving it? Are you typing in the path to the save file, or are you pressing a "save" button? If the latter, maybe the save button isn't trying to save it to the existing folder with the capitalized name, but a lowercase equivalent (which, until you created it by renaming the capitalized one, it couldn't find)?

Brian-M · 11th January 2012, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by Lolly

How are you saving it? Are you typing in the path to the save file, or are you pressing a "save" button? If the latter, maybe the save button isn't trying to save it to the existing folder with the capitalized name, but a lowercase equivalent (which, until you created it by renaming the capitalized one, it couldn't find)?

Prboom is a Doom emulator that allows you to play Doom-like games in Linux, Windows, or Mac. The games are stored as WAD files compatible with the original Doom WAD files, so you can use it to play the original Doom games if you still have them. (Or you can use the original Doom DOS program to run Prboom games.)

Saving the game is just like saving it in the original DOS version, by pressing the ESC button to bring up the menu and selecting SAVE GAME. Then you pick the slot to save it into, and give the saved game a name. But when the Doom 2 WAD file was capitalized, nothing happened when I pressed enter to select a slot in which to save the game.

It seems to save the game to the same place as it does when I run it with the FreeDoom WAD file that came with it (and presumably any other WAD file), because the game I saved in FreeDoom was visible in the saved games list when I went to save my Doom 2 game.

I find it very strange that an error occurs when the WAD filename is capitalized, given that Doom was released for DOS, in which all filenames were capitalized.

Dessi · 12th January 2012, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by Donn

A Haskell-driven WM? Ouch. I bow to your brain... as I shudder.

Haskell <3

Prepare for brainsplode:

http://www.willamette.edu/~fruehr/ha...evolution.html

Donn · 12th January 2012, 09:09 AM

Oh that was wrong. Just... wrong.
:O

DGM · 19th January 2012, 01:05 PM

I loaded Ubuntu on one of my computers. My son wants to play a certain game that requires Java. I down loaded that no problem. Now Linux wants me to enter my password. I never gave it one, really I didn't. It doesn't believe me.

I read through the instructions for installing "Java self extracting" and they lost me at "change the executable.... "

Help.

Bram Kaandorp · 19th January 2012, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by DGM

I loaded Ubuntu on one of my computers. My son wants to play a certain game that requires Java. I down loaded that no problem. Now Linux wants me to enter my password. I never gave it one, really I didn't. It doesn't believe me.

I read through the instructions for installing "Java self extracting" and they lost me at "change the executable.... "

Help.

Google is your friend.

However, I found this site, which might be of some help.

http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/resetpassword

DGM · 19th January 2012, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp

Google is your friend.

However, I found this site, which might be of some help.

http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/resetpassword

Thanks, I'll give it a try. Funny you mentioned "Google". This problem started when I tried to run "Chrome" on that same computer.

I should be OK now. I have my Windows machine next to the Linux.

Lolly · 19th January 2012, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by DGM

I read through the instructions for installing "Java self extracting" and they lost me at "change the executable.... "

Have you got a link to the instructions you are trying to follow?

The Norseman · 20th January 2012, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by DGM

I loaded Ubuntu on one of my computers. My son wants to play a certain game that requires Java. I down loaded that no problem. Now Linux wants me to enter my password. I never gave it one, really I didn't. It doesn't believe me.

I read through the instructions for installing "Java self extracting" and they lost me at "change the executable.... "

Help.

This sounds odd, though my experience may be limited.

All Linux installs that I am aware of, require the use of a root password which is asked for any time there is a change to the OS or other admin-type duty. This was done since basically Linux's inception which Windows only began to do so when Vista was released. This is called 'privilege escalation' and is a basic security function that all OS's should have (and I think they all do by now).

The root password is separate from any other user password (usually) though there are many who use the same password for both accounts.

Again, my experience has been that the root password is established upon first installing the OS, so if you had no part in it, then it would explain why you aren't aware of having or needing one.

grmcdorman · 20th January 2012, 04:16 PM

Ubuntu, in fact, does not set a root password. Instead, privilege escalation is done using sudo, which asks for the user's password. (There is also a mechanism for controlling who can use sudo, but on desktop systems this is usually everyone.)

You should have been asked for some sort of password when installing Ubuntu (although I have not done an Ubuntu install for some time).

The Norseman · 20th January 2012, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by grmcdorman

Ubuntu, in fact, does not set a root password. Instead, privilege escalation is done using sudo, which asks for the user's password. (There is also a mechanism for controlling who can use sudo, but on desktop systems this is usually everyone.)

You should have been asked for some sort of password when installing Ubuntu (although I have not done an Ubuntu install for some time).

Ah, yeah, you're right. I had forgotten about sudo, mainly because I don't do much work with Ubuntu and I also think that it's a 'dangerous' habit to get into by *not* requiring a separate root password.

Donn · 21st January 2012, 04:32 AM

He shouldn't even need a password to install java stuff into hiw own /home directory.

Just make a new 'folder', copy the java game in there and then attempt to run the game. Look for a filename that suggests itself and double-click it.

As to Java itself, you may have to install it from the repository of your distro. That will require your login password.

DGM · 21st January 2012, 05:28 AM

Thanks for all the help. I got the password to reset and Java installed through the "addons" (I think) tab.

I think my biggest problem is I'm way behind on the Linux OS learning curve (or have used Windows too long). I have to spend some more time on the system, maybe I'll try again to get Google Chrome working .

Thanks again.

Christian Klippel · 21st January 2012, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by DGM

I think my biggest problem is I'm way behind on the Linux OS learning curve (or have used Windows too long). I have to spend some more time on the system, maybe I'll try again to get Google Chrome working .

Once you learned it a bit better, and came around some "those things are done differently in Linux" issues, the following usage experiences are very rewarding, at least in my opinion. Plus, you can even use older hardware to get along

Just be aware that Linux is not Windows, and as such does have different concepts.

Other than that: Good to hear you got it worked out!

Greetings,

Chris

Brian-M · 21st January 2012, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by The Norseman

Ah, yeah, you're right. I had forgotten about sudo, mainly because I don't do much work with Ubuntu and I also think that it's a 'dangerous' habit to get into by *not* requiring a separate root password.

You might be able to get around that by having a different account from the one you made during installation for everyday use...

... No, I just tried it with a new account for "guest", and what I got was....

guest@brian~$ sudo nautilus
[sudo] password for guest:
guest is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
guest@brian~$ sudo nautilus

Just for fun I logged in as root to see the report of the "incident", but nothing showed up. Maybe I'd have to set up mail?

I'd set up the root account earlier with: sudo passwd root

Alan · 21st January 2012, 05:12 PM

I found out today that Richard Stallman appears on the Alex Jones show sometimes.

One recently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwz_vMdxmDU
An older one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoWRS3nfK9o

The comment under that video:
"Linux and the entire GNU project are Apple astroturf operations designed to take away market share from Microsoft and destroy Microsoft only to give rise to Apple as the new PC/OS monopoly. Microsoft market share and stock have dropped dramatically, and Apple market share and stock have risen dramatically. And now the Linux vendors are staging their own demise so Apple will have no competition.

Mark Shuttleworth and Richard Stallman are paid Apple operatives."

Gazpacho · 21st January 2012, 05:43 PM

Good interviews, thanks. Stallman doesn't seem to do many interviews with US television networks. You know, the ones owned by media conglomerates that live by copyrights and lobby for the very laws that he opposes. This is exactly where marginal media like AJ shines.

The Norseman · 22nd January 2012, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Brian-M

You might be able to get around that by having a different account from the one you made during installation for everyday use...

... No, I just tried it with a new account for "guest", and what I got was....

guest@brian~$ sudo nautilus
[sudo] password for guest:
guest is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
guest@brian~$ sudo nautilus

Just for fun I logged in as root to see the report of the "incident", but nothing showed up. Maybe I'd have to set up mail?

I'd set up the root account earlier with: sudo passwd root

Yeah, one can edit the sudoers file, which I do hazily remember attempting a while ago. I used to read the back-and-forth regarding sudo and root and I'm pretty firmly on the side of a separate root account with no sudo command.

But that's just me. I prefer the security of what is essentially a two-password setup in case my user account password is compromised. Not that I'm worried about my home machine necessarily -- just it's simply best practices.

7th January 2012, 12:02 PM	#401
Captain_Snort Muse Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Scotland Posts: 662	I grew to loved Gnome2, switched to it when KDE4 was released. Was what KDE3 was, very very customisable with many wee tweaks you could use to increase productivity. Then Unity and one size fits all or Gnome3, another size fits all. So I gave KDE another try and have found it has matured greatly. Funnily enough almost back to being a proper desktop as we all know and love again. It is well worth a try, maybe a bit bloated, but some people claim it uses less memory than Gnome3 or Unity, all I know it is pretty snappy. Mind you I am seriously thinking of dumping ubuntu as they cant even be bothered to make the thesarus work in Libreoffice using en_gb localisation for the last 3 releases. As for synaptic being left out of the default ubuntu install, just need to add one more thing to your first ever command on each new system, for me that will now be. sudo apt-get install synaptic htop mc
	__________________ UKLS - 1984-2003, 2007- Girl 6: Besides, it's like he's an absentee landowner... And, I hate slumlords... ;-)

7th January 2012, 12:22 PM	#402
Donn Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Cape of Africa, a mountain, the ocean; between. Posts: 1,615	Gnome 2 was fabulous. Subtle, stable, sensible. Sniff...
	__________________ "If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." Source unknown (thanks sackett) "So I say, stfu and go study .. and experience mysticism .. Until then, you are an uninitiated thrall. " Limbo - post here

7th January 2012, 12:54 PM	#403
jt512 Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 387	Originally Posted by Donn A Haskell-driven WM? Ouch. I bow to your brain... as I shudder. You don't really need to know any Haskell to use Xmonad. You can configure it by following examples. In fact, it works quite well out-of-the-box using the default configuration file.
jt512 Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 387

7th January 2012, 01:03 PM	#404
Donn Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Cape of Africa, a mountain, the ocean; between. Posts: 1,615	I'm sure you can. I was kidding around. I have been thinking Fluxbox, how does xmonad compare?
	__________________ "If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." Source unknown (thanks sackett) "So I say, stfu and go study .. and experience mysticism .. Until then, you are an uninitiated thrall. " Limbo - post here

7th January 2012, 01:14 PM	#405
jt512 Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 387	Originally Posted by Donn I'm sure you can. I was kidding around. I have been thinking Fluxbox, how does xmonad compare? I haven't used Fluxbox, but I've used Openbox, which seems to be similar. Neither is a tiling window manager like Xmonad is, so it's going to be a very different user experience. With a tiling window manager, windows don't overlap, so you never have to use a mouse to move, focus, and resize your windows, and your screen space is used efficiently.
jt512 Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 387

7th January 2012, 02:04 PM	#406
Bram Kaandorp Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Netherlands Posts: 2,240	Originally Posted by Donn Gnome 2 was fabulous. Subtle, stable, sensible. Sniff... I only hope at least one fork survives. Come to think of it, I can't think of a better GUI to use than a fork of Gnome. I already use a fork of Amarok (Exaile), a Linux alternative for Windows Live Messenger (Emesene), a fork of a fork of a fork of sun office (LibreOffice). Heck, Linux itself is based on a fork of Unix. And wasn't Unix also a fork? Either way, I will sorely miss Gnome, to the point that I might even consider moving back to Windows. Imagine that...
	__________________ If autism is a "living death", does that make me a zombie? If so, that'd be great. Just don't get your brain in my general vicinity.

7th January 2012, 02:32 PM	#407
Blue Mountain Resident Skeptical Hobbit Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Waging war on woo-woo in Winnipeg Posts: 3,629	Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp Have you been living in a cave? There was an immense falling out over how buggy KDE 4 was. Uh, yeah, there was. Even Linus switched away from KDE when 4 came out. Not sure what he's using now. Quote: You know what, if I can find adequate KDE 4 alternatives for many of the Gnome dependent programs I use, I might switch to that after all. It can't be worse than Gnome 3. Right? A lot of Gnome stuff will run on KDE, because distributions often install both sets of libraries. But that's not to say the applications you use in Gnome will run. And if you switch to the KDE equivalent, you have to get used to its quirks and put up with the odd feature that you liked in the Gnome app but isn't in the KDE one. I tend to be fair bit "old school" and use a lot of generic applications (I've been using Linux for about 15 years now.) I prefer Firefox to Konqueror for web browsing. I use LibreOffice instead of whatever "office" apps KDE may offer. I use the Midnight Commander for filesystem stuff because it's fast and I know a lot of its keyboard shortcuts. I even use a combination of Midnight Commander and the ancient 'xv' program for maintaining my digital photograph collection, even though Gwenview and digiKam have features that I would find useful if I bothered to invest the time to learn them properly. I use the Gimp for picture editing. I much prefer plain old text files that I can edit with vim, although recently I've taken to using Kate as well. All of these are independent of the actual desktop environment I'm running. The only KDE-specific programs I run are KvIRC, Kontact (all-in-one Email / Contacts/ Calendar /To-do List / RSS Feeds / Journal / Notebook / Time tracker), Amarok, and Kate. Quote: I mean, does KDE still give the user all freedom to change things? I'm not sure what you're wanting to change, so I can't really address it. I do know that KDE's control centre has many more options than Gnome's does.
	__________________ The social illusion reigns to-day upon all the heaped-up ruins of the past, and to it belongs the future. The masses have never thirsted after truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Gustav Le Bon, The Crowd, 1895 (from the French) Canadian or living in Canada? PM me if you want an entry on the list of Canadians on the forum. Last edited by Blue Mountain; 7th January 2012 at 02:35 PM. Reason: typo fix

7th January 2012, 03:16 PM	#408
Bram Kaandorp Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Netherlands Posts: 2,240	Originally Posted by Blue Mountain Uh, yeah, there was. Even Linus switched away from KDE when 4 came out. Not sure what he's using now. Seeing as how he left KDE, then Gnome, I think he goes command-line now. Quote: A lot of Gnome stuff will run on KDE, because distributions often install both sets of libraries. But that's not to say the applications you use in Gnome will run. And if you switch to the KDE equivalent, you have to get used to its quirks and put up with the odd feature that you liked in the Gnome app but isn't in the KDE one. I have noticed that many of the non-distro programs I use are architecture independent (if that's the word). Totally accidental. Quote: I tend to be fair bit "old school" and use a lot of generic applications (I've been using Linux for about 15 years now.) I prefer Firefox to Konqueror for web browsing. I use LibreOffice instead of whatever "office" apps KDE may offer. I use the Midnight Commander for filesystem stuff because it's fast and I know a lot of its keyboard shortcuts. I even use a combination of Midnight Commander and the ancient 'xv' program for maintaining my digital photograph collection, even though Gwenview and digiKam have features that I would find useful if I bothered to invest the time to learn them properly. I use the Gimp for picture editing. I much prefer plain old text files that I can edit with vim, although recently I've taken to using Kate as well. I tend to do the same. The first thing to go is Evolution, because I use a web-based mail service. The only thing I'm struggling with now is finding a good PIM (organizer program). I use Osmo now, but through some weird accident I only have my tasks in the form of a .ical file, which I exported from Osmo, but it has no way of importing it (illogical). Quote: All of these are independent of the actual desktop environment I'm running. The only KDE-specific programs I run are KvIRC, Kontact (all-in-one Email / Contacts/ Calendar /To-do List / RSS Feeds / Journal / Notebook / Time tracker), Amarok, and Kate. I'm not sure what you're wanting to change, so I can't really address it. I do know that KDE's control centre has many more options than Gnome's does. I found out that it's very customisable, compared to Gnome. Maybe I'll give it a go when 10.04 hits the EOL. 'Till that time, I want to figure out if someone has successfully forked Gnome already (MATE seems promising, but it isn't released yet).
	__________________ If autism is a "living death", does that make me a zombie? If so, that'd be great. Just don't get your brain in my general vicinity.

7th January 2012, 04:30 PM	#409
Alan Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,651	Did you see this way to get window buttons without interfering with the strange notification thing down the buttom: putting the windows in the top panel? You could try https://extensions.gnome.org/extensi...tend-left-box/ and then https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/25/window-list/ to put the windows list in the top panel in Gnome Shell. I tried them out and they don't work for me for some reason but others report it is good. If the panel in Gnome Shell was more like the bar in Unity, in terms of the global menu and indicators, then I would be super happy with it.
	Last edited by Alan; 7th January 2012 at 04:40 PM.

7th January 2012, 04:41 PM	#410
Bram Kaandorp Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Netherlands Posts: 2,240	Originally Posted by Alan Did you see this way to get window buttons without interfering with the strange notification thing down the buttom: putting the windows in the top panel? You could try https://extensions.gnome.org/extensi...tend-left-box/ and then https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/25/window-list/ to put the windows list in the top panel in Gnome Shell. I tried them out and they don't work for me for some reason but others report it is good. That wouldn't work for me. The top panel would just get crammed full. Actually, I'm back in good old 10.04. It has support until April 2013 so I won't worry too much now. ETA: I haven't even mentioned the main reason for my leaving Gnome Shell/Gnome 3; When I Transfer data from my external disk to my internal, it freezes up in long enough bursts to be unusable. This might be a temporary issue, but at that moment, it was the last straw.
	__________________ If autism is a "living death", does that make me a zombie? If so, that'd be great. Just don't get your brain in my general vicinity. Last edited by Bram Kaandorp; 7th January 2012 at 05:45 PM.

7th January 2012, 10:53 PM	#411
The Norseman I Void Warranties Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: The Treasure Valley Posts: 3,236	Originally Posted by Donn A Haskell-driven WM? Ouch. I bow to your brain... as I shudder. What's wrong with Haskell in this instance?
	__________________ "I have always thought that a wild animal never looks so well as when some obstacle of pronounced durability is between us." "Sticking the flounce is the hardest move in forum gymnastics." -tsig

8th January 2012, 12:07 AM	#412
Donn Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Cape of Africa, a mountain, the ocean; between. Posts: 1,615	Nothing wrong with Haskell. I lack the gray cells to comprehend it, is all. I kinda pretend I can do Python, but Haskell is beyond my feeble powers. I was picturing a config file that required Haskell code...
	__________________ "If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." Source unknown (thanks sackett) "So I say, stfu and go study .. and experience mysticism .. Until then, you are an uninitiated thrall. " Limbo - post here

8th January 2012, 12:34 AM	#413
jt512 Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 387	Originally Posted by Donn I was picturing a config file that required Haskell code... The Xmonad config file is written in Haskell, but, paradoxically, you don't have to know Haskell to edit the config file. You can just follow the examples in the default config file.
jt512 Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 387

8th January 2012, 01:27 AM	#414
Xero Thinker Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Western Australia Posts: 178	Originally Posted by Alan Did you see this way to get window buttons without interfering with the strange notification thing down the buttom: putting the windows in the top panel? You could try https://extensions.gnome.org/extensi...tend-left-box/ and then https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/25/window-list/ to put the windows list in the top panel in Gnome Shell. I tried them out and they don't work for me for some reason but others report it is good. If the panel in Gnome Shell was more like the bar in Unity, in terms of the global menu and indicators, then I would be super happy with it. Thanks for the tip, just added the Window List one to my Linux Mint 12 install, and I find the window list in the top panel far more responsive than the one provided by Mint in the bottom panel.

8th January 2012, 01:34 AM	#415
daggerstab Student Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Bulgaria Posts: 33	Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp Seeing as how he left KDE, then Gnome, I think he goes command-line now. XFCE, actually. Which is the thing I also ran to after being forced to use Unity and trying Gnome 3 and KDE. After a bit of playing with the configuration you can get the desktop to look like Gnome 2. An early, unpolished version of Gnome 2.

8th January 2012, 07:23 AM	#416
Xero Thinker Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Western Australia Posts: 178	If the XFCE devs were not so dead-set determined NOT to allow/intro tabbed file-browsing, I'd be inclined to give it a good go, but it's far too limiting once you're used to having it.

8th January 2012, 07:43 AM	#417
daggerstab Student Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Bulgaria Posts: 33	Well, I used Nautilus as it was left over from my Unity/Gnome installation. I must admit I haven't used XFCE a lot, though - I made the foolish mistake of updating Ubuntu on a desktop computer that I rarely use. The netbook that I'm working on at the moment is still running Ubuntu 11.04 with Gnome 2, and will probably run it until the end of support for that release (October 2012, just in time for Ubuntu 12.10). I hope that this will be enough time for Canonical, Gnome and XFCE to improve their offerings.

8th January 2012, 12:51 PM	#418
The Norseman I Void Warranties Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: The Treasure Valley Posts: 3,236	Originally Posted by Donn Nothing wrong with Haskell. I lack the gray cells to comprehend it, is all. I kinda pretend I can do Python, but Haskell is beyond my feeble powers. I was picturing a config file that required Haskell code... Ah, okay. I was interested in learning (as in self-teaching) Haskell, so I was curious if you knew something that I should know. On-topic: I downloaded and burned the newest DVD of Linux Mint Debian with xfce this time. There are some features which I have really liked about KDE though that Gnome just either can't do or I can't find how to do them.
	__________________ "I have always thought that a wild animal never looks so well as when some obstacle of pronounced durability is between us." "Sticking the flounce is the hardest move in forum gymnastics." -tsig

8th January 2012, 01:11 PM	#419
Alan Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,651	Originally Posted by daggerstab XFCE, actually. Which is the thing I also ran to after being forced to use Unity and trying Gnome 3 and KDE. After a bit of playing with the configuration you can get the desktop to look like Gnome 2. An early, unpolished version of Gnome 2. Torvalds likes Gnome Shell more than he used to. "Hey, with gnome-tweak-tool and the dock extension, gnome-3.2 is starting to look almost usable." https://plus.google.com/102150693225...7dqYoR?amp&amp

8th January 2012, 01:55 PM	#420
Bram Kaandorp Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Netherlands Posts: 2,240	Originally Posted by Alan Torvalds likes Gnome Shell more than he used to. "Hey, with gnome-tweak-tool and the dock extension, gnome-3.2 is starting to look almost usable." https://plus.google.com/102150693225...7dqYoR?amp&amp Now that's just low.
	__________________ If autism is a "living death", does that make me a zombie? If so, that'd be great. Just don't get your brain in my general vicinity.

11th January 2012, 04:45 AM	#421
Brian-M Daydreamer Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Downunder Posts: 4,229	I'm wondering if someone can explain this to me... Tonight I tried running prboom with a copy of DOOM2.WAD I found on one of my old backup CDs. It worked fine, except it wouldn't let me save the game. After I renamed DOOM2.WAD to doom2.wad it was able to save. Can anyone explain why the capitalization of the WAD filename makes a difference? As long as the correct capitalization is given at the command line it can read the file, and I know games aren't saved in the WAD file itself, so is there any reason for this problem to exist? Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp Heck, Linux itself is based on a fork of Unix. And wasn't Unix also a fork? No, it's BSD that's a fork of Unix. GNU/Linux is a Unix clone, or Unix-like OS, but isn't actually derived from Unix. Unix isn't a fork of anything. It was the successor of Multics, an experimental operating system that had far too many problems to be of any commercial use, but it wasn't based on Multics. They started from scratch with Unics (which was later renamed Unix).
	__________________ "That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim

11th January 2012, 05:05 AM	#422
Brian-M Daydreamer Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Downunder Posts: 4,229	Originally Posted by Donn Untested If your BIOS is advanced enough, it should allow you to boot off an external USB drive. If you set the boot order to include that drive FIRST then you might get what you want: 1. USB in: whatever o/s is on there gets booted. 2. USB not in/off : Next drive in line gets booted. hth I've done that with Puppy Linux. Works fine. I think most newer versions of BIOS will support bootable USB drives. Originally Posted by elgarak I cannot imagine going back to these bulky standard PC keyboards. Or these really old IBM keyboards that feel they came out of an IBM Selectric that some oldsters still swear on. Ugh. You mean the Model M? I'm a proud owner of one of those, circa 1990, and wouldn't want any other. They don't only feel like they came out of an IBM Selectric, they use exactly the same patented buckling spring as the Selectric did. Apparently Unicomp still manufactures them. But I've noticed (by playing around with keyboards in stores) that most of the higher quality keyboards available now have a similar feel to the old Model M (minus the click).
	__________________ "That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim

11th January 2012, 05:05 PM	#423
Lolly discombobulated Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Western Australia Posts: 4,571	Originally Posted by Brian-M As long as the correct capitalization is given at the command line it can read the file, and I know games aren't saved in the WAD file itself, so is there any reason for this problem to exist? How are you saving it? Are you typing in the path to the save file, or are you pressing a "save" button? If the latter, maybe the save button isn't trying to save it to the existing folder with the capitalized name, but a lowercase equivalent (which, until you created it by renaming the capitalized one, it couldn't find)?
	__________________ Pet Lover http://forums.randi.org/group.php?groupid=45 "When particles of evil and iniquity swarm together, they make a Lolly.": Legend

11th January 2012, 10:49 PM	#424
Brian-M Daydreamer Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Downunder Posts: 4,229	Originally Posted by Lolly How are you saving it? Are you typing in the path to the save file, or are you pressing a "save" button? If the latter, maybe the save button isn't trying to save it to the existing folder with the capitalized name, but a lowercase equivalent (which, until you created it by renaming the capitalized one, it couldn't find)? Prboom is a Doom emulator that allows you to play Doom-like games in Linux, Windows, or Mac. The games are stored as WAD files compatible with the original Doom WAD files, so you can use it to play the original Doom games if you still have them. (Or you can use the original Doom DOS program to run Prboom games.) Saving the game is just like saving it in the original DOS version, by pressing the ESC button to bring up the menu and selecting SAVE GAME. Then you pick the slot to save it into, and give the saved game a name. But when the Doom 2 WAD file was capitalized, nothing happened when I pressed enter to select a slot in which to save the game. It seems to save the game to the same place as it does when I run it with the FreeDoom WAD file that came with it (and presumably any other WAD file), because the game I saved in FreeDoom was visible in the saved games list when I went to save my Doom 2 game. I find it very strange that an error occurs when the WAD filename is capitalized, given that Doom was released for DOS, in which all filenames were capitalized.
	__________________ "That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim

12th January 2012, 08:59 AM	#425
Dessi Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 1,904	Originally Posted by Donn A Haskell-driven WM? Ouch. I bow to your brain... as I shudder. Haskell <3 Prepare for brainsplode: http://www.willamette.edu/~fruehr/ha...evolution.html
	__________________ >^.^<

12th January 2012, 09:09 AM	#426
Donn Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Cape of Africa, a mountain, the ocean; between. Posts: 1,615	Oh that was wrong. Just... wrong. :O
	__________________ "If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." Source unknown (thanks sackett) "So I say, stfu and go study .. and experience mysticism .. Until then, you are an uninitiated thrall. " Limbo - post here

19th January 2012, 01:05 PM	#427
DGM #4 Join Date: May 2007 Location: West of Northshore MA Posts: 14,299	I loaded Ubuntu on one of my computers. My son wants to play a certain game that requires Java. I down loaded that no problem. Now Linux wants me to enter my password. I never gave it one, really I didn't. It doesn't believe me. I read through the instructions for installing "Java self extracting" and they lost me at "change the executable.... " Help.
	__________________ Join the team, Show us what your machine can do (or just contribute to a good cause)Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 "Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley

19th January 2012, 01:33 PM	#428
Bram Kaandorp Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Netherlands Posts: 2,240	Originally Posted by DGM I loaded Ubuntu on one of my computers. My son wants to play a certain game that requires Java. I down loaded that no problem. Now Linux wants me to enter my password. I never gave it one, really I didn't. It doesn't believe me. I read through the instructions for installing "Java self extracting" and they lost me at "change the executable.... " Help. Google is your friend. However, I found this site, which might be of some help. http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/resetpassword
	__________________ If autism is a "living death", does that make me a zombie? If so, that'd be great. Just don't get your brain in my general vicinity.

19th January 2012, 01:42 PM	#429
DGM #4 Join Date: May 2007 Location: West of Northshore MA Posts: 14,299	Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp Google is your friend. However, I found this site, which might be of some help. http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/resetpassword Thanks, I'll give it a try. Funny you mentioned "Google". This problem started when I tried to run "Chrome" on that same computer. I should be OK now. I have my Windows machine next to the Linux.
	__________________ Join the team, Show us what your machine can do (or just contribute to a good cause)Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 "Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley

19th January 2012, 11:53 PM	#430
Lolly discombobulated Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Western Australia Posts: 4,571	Originally Posted by DGM I read through the instructions for installing "Java self extracting" and they lost me at "change the executable.... " Have you got a link to the instructions you are trying to follow?
	__________________ Pet Lover http://forums.randi.org/group.php?groupid=45 "When particles of evil and iniquity swarm together, they make a Lolly.": Legend

20th January 2012, 12:01 PM	#431
The Norseman I Void Warranties Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: The Treasure Valley Posts: 3,236	Originally Posted by DGM I loaded Ubuntu on one of my computers. My son wants to play a certain game that requires Java. I down loaded that no problem. Now Linux wants me to enter my password. I never gave it one, really I didn't. It doesn't believe me. I read through the instructions for installing "Java self extracting" and they lost me at "change the executable.... " Help. This sounds odd, though my experience may be limited. All Linux installs that I am aware of, require the use of a root password which is asked for any time there is a change to the OS or other admin-type duty. This was done since basically Linux's inception which Windows only began to do so when Vista was released. This is called 'privilege escalation' and is a basic security function that all OS's should have (and I think they all do by now). The root password is separate from any other user password (usually) though there are many who use the same password for both accounts. Again, my experience has been that the root password is established upon first installing the OS, so if you had no part in it, then it would explain why you aren't aware of having or needing one.
	__________________ "I have always thought that a wild animal never looks so well as when some obstacle of pronounced durability is between us." "Sticking the flounce is the hardest move in forum gymnastics." -tsig

20th January 2012, 04:16 PM	#432
grmcdorman Muse Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 857	Ubuntu, in fact, does not set a root password. Instead, privilege escalation is done using sudo, which asks for the user's password. (There is also a mechanism for controlling who can use sudo, but on desktop systems this is usually everyone.) You should have been asked for some sort of password when installing Ubuntu (although I have not done an Ubuntu install for some time).
grmcdorman Muse Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 857	__________________ "Hello. My name is Inigo Skywalker. You are my father. Prepare to die."

20th January 2012, 06:22 PM	#433
The Norseman I Void Warranties Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: The Treasure Valley Posts: 3,236	Originally Posted by grmcdorman Ubuntu, in fact, does not set a root password. Instead, privilege escalation is done using sudo, which asks for the user's password. (There is also a mechanism for controlling who can use sudo, but on desktop systems this is usually everyone.) You should have been asked for some sort of password when installing Ubuntu (although I have not done an Ubuntu install for some time). Ah, yeah, you're right. I had forgotten about sudo, mainly because I don't do much work with Ubuntu and I also think that it's a 'dangerous' habit to get into by not requiring a separate root password.
	__________________ "I have always thought that a wild animal never looks so well as when some obstacle of pronounced durability is between us." "Sticking the flounce is the hardest move in forum gymnastics." -tsig

21st January 2012, 04:32 AM	#434
Donn Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Cape of Africa, a mountain, the ocean; between. Posts: 1,615	He shouldn't even need a password to install java stuff into hiw own /home directory. Just make a new 'folder', copy the java game in there and then attempt to run the game. Look for a filename that suggests itself and double-click it. As to Java itself, you may have to install it from the repository of your distro. That will require your login password.
	__________________ "If I hadn't believed it with my own mind, I would never have seen it." Source unknown (thanks sackett) "So I say, stfu and go study .. and experience mysticism .. Until then, you are an uninitiated thrall. " Limbo - post here

21st January 2012, 05:28 AM	#435
DGM #4 Join Date: May 2007 Location: West of Northshore MA Posts: 14,299	Thanks for all the help. I got the password to reset and Java installed through the "addons" (I think) tab. I think my biggest problem is I'm way behind on the Linux OS learning curve (or have used Windows too long). I have to spend some more time on the system, maybe I'll try again to get Google Chrome working . Thanks again.
	__________________ Join the team, Show us what your machine can do (or just contribute to a good cause)Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 "Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley