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Old 10th November 2011, 07:38 AM   #281
Bram Kaandorp
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
I'm using Lubuntu now, is Mint much more resource-hungry?
I'd like to give it a go.
LXDE is less resource hungry than Gnome, so I'd say that Lubuntu is the more demanding one.
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Old 10th November 2011, 07:55 AM   #282
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I wonder what it was about Ubuntu 11.10 that was giving the CPU a flogging. Pardus 2011 is much less demanding it seems.
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Old 10th November 2011, 07:58 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
I wonder what it was about Ubuntu 11.10 that was giving the CPU a flogging. Pardus 2011 is much less demanding it seems.
We were just talking about Unity. Could that be it? It uses compositing, which is usually pretty demanding, so maybe that's it.
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Old 10th November 2011, 08:11 AM   #284
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Maybe. What is compositing all about? I didn't notice anything particularly flash about Unity to suspect it. Pardus doesn't exactly seem spartan in comparison either with all its transparency and window transition effects.
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Old 10th November 2011, 08:21 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post
What are the biggest advantages you experienced in using Unity over Gnome 2?
I would argue no real advantage other than making Ubuntu familiar for 90% of population to just use it right out of box. This is what I believe has created the big Gnome vs. Unity debate, but Ubuntu is not moving backwards on this, 12.04 will be even better/worse depending on your tastes. I think it was good move to get more folks using linux, but that is what upsets freetards, there is no shortage of Linux OS for people who hate Unity.

Unity appears and works like a phone/tablet OS in my opinion, but it does chew up mega resource, but I think 11.10 is better than Natty for one reason, I can actually use it.

I have only 1 gig of ram on my laptop and Unity Natty 11,04 wouldn't even load, but now with Oneric 11.10 I can use it, but now if i want to watch video, I have to turn it off.

There is no shortage of Unity haters on the youtube, and they all have one thing in common, old geeky white dudes.
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Old 10th November 2011, 08:37 AM   #286
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What do you all think of gnome 3. It comes Fedora 15, but I can't actually try it on this laptop as it wants better graphics hardware, maybe it's time for new computer, but this one does all I need still.

Quote:
Unfortunately GNOME 3 failed to start properly and started in the fallback mode.

This most likely means your system (graphics hardware or driver) is not capable of delivering the full GNOME 3 experience.

I would like to be delivered the full gnome 3 experience.

http://www.gnome.org/gnome-3/
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Old 10th November 2011, 11:08 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post
LXDE is less resource hungry than Gnome, so I'd say that Lubuntu is the more demanding one.

I actually prefer XFCE over LXDE, so Xubuntu was my "-buntu" of choice for netbooks and old, resource-deficient hardware. Last year I tried out Crunchbang Linux (uses the lightweight Openbox) and I really like that UI, so that's the distro I've been sticking with for my netbook.


Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
I wonder what it was about Ubuntu 11.10 that was giving the CPU a flogging. Pardus 2011 is much less demanding it seems.

Maybe open a terminal and try:

Code:
top
Then look for the most CPU-hungry threads?

I use the conky on all my machines. I have my conky set up to display two lists of top threads: the top 10 most CPU-intensive, and the top 10 most RAM-intensive, so I can see at a glance what is eating the most resources.




Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post
We were just talking about Unity. Could that be it? It uses compositing, which is usually pretty demanding, so maybe that's it.

Ugh. I really don't like Unity. I wish they'd just stuck to regular old Gnome. Reminds me of when KDE4 came out. Just a lot of layered garbage in the UI that is totally unnecessary and impedes workflow.
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Old 10th November 2011, 11:13 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by John Albert View Post
I actually prefer XFCE over LXDE, so Xubuntu was my "-buntu" of choice for netbooks and old, resource-deficient hardware. Last year I tried out Crunchbang Linux (uses the lightweight Openbox) and I really like that UI, so that's the distro I've been sticking with for my netbook.
I think I'm spoiled with Gnome too much, because I've tried XFCE, but I just don't like it all that much.

Quote:
I use the conky on all my machines. I have my conky set up to display two lists of top threads: the top 10 most CPU-intensive, and the top 10 most RAM-intensive, so I can see at a glance what is eating the most resources.
Until now, I have been hesitant to use Conky, but this is actually very useful. I don't need compositing for it to work, right? (using compositing sort of defeats the purpose, since I want to see how lean my computer can be with what I use.

Quote:
Ugh. I really don't like Unity. I wish they'd just stuck to regular old Gnome. Reminds me of when KDE4 came out. Just a lot of layered garbage in the UI that is totally unnecessary and impedes workflow.
Funnily enough, the Netbook Remix version which came before the full-blown Unity wasn't half bad. Only for netbooks, mind you, but still, pretty good.
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Old 10th November 2011, 11:28 AM   #289
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You don't need compositing. It's totally display-only, with no user interaction whatsoever.

It does poll the system regularly and updates the display accordingly, and you can specify the frequency for that. Conky runs very lean if you set the resource polling to a low enough frequency. The conky scripting language is extremely easy to hack, and you can also use or code plugins in a variety of languages to add various functionalities and fancy display effects (like Internet weather reports, rendering pie charts, etc.). As I said, I use it on all my machines, even netbooks. Here's a pic of my netbook conky running in Crunchbang Linux:



You can see both conky instances (the system monitor on the left and the date/time/weather on the right) on the "top" list for CPU hoggage, probably because I caught it in the process of polling and grabbing weather data at the moment I pulled the screengrab.

If you find XFCE too lean, then stay away from OpenBox. It's pared down to the absolute minimum.

Netbook Remix was awesome. A friend of mine (non-computer techie type) uses it all the time and she loves it. I can even see Unity being alright for netbooks or maybe tablets, but I found it extremely annoying to have on a desktop machine. I actually prefer traditional desktop environments even for netbooks.

In Ubuntu 11.04, I just keep "traditional Gnome" selected in the Sessions menu at the login screen.
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Old 10th November 2011, 01:22 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by John Albert View Post
You don't need compositing. It's totally display-only, with no user interaction whatsoever.

It does poll the system regularly and updates the display accordingly, and you can specify the frequency for that. Conky runs very lean if you set the resource polling to a low enough frequency. The conky scripting language is extremely easy to hack, and you can also use or code plugins in a variety of languages to add various functionalities and fancy display effects (like Internet weather reports, rendering pie charts, etc.). As I said, I use it on all my machines, even netbooks. Here's a pic of my netbook conky running in Crunchbang Linux:

(beautiful image)

You can see both conky instances (the system monitor on the left and the date/time/weather on the right) on the "top" list for CPU hoggage, probably because I caught it in the process of polling and grabbing weather data at the moment I pulled the screengrab.
I'll certainly give conky a try. It's a lot better than the system monitor applet for the panel.

Quote:
If you find XFCE too lean, then stay away from OpenBox. It's pared down to the absolute minimum.
Not that I would mind minimalism, but you're probably right.

Quote:
Netbook Remix was awesome. A friend of mine (non-computer techie type) uses it all the time and she loves it. I can even see Unity being alright for netbooks or maybe tablets, but I found it extremely annoying to have on a desktop machine. I actually prefer traditional desktop environments even for netbooks.
Ditto. Although, I have heard good things about Gnome 3, so maybe that will be my new desktop (if it isn't too big a hog).

Quote:
In Ubuntu 11.04, I just keep "traditional Gnome" selected in the Sessions menu at the login screen.
Even better, I just remove Unity. I never use it, so why keep it around, right?
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Old 10th November 2011, 02:05 PM   #291
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OK, I'm running Linux Mint now.
It runs very well.

I've run into a weird problem though.

My windows are "fixed". As in They stick to the top of the screen.
The top bar seems to have disappeared, so I cant maximize or minimize windows.

I think it happened when I played with the compiz configuration.But I'm not sure.
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Old 10th November 2011, 02:07 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post
Even better, I just remove Unity. I never use it, so why keep it around, right?

I removed it and it borked a few things! So instead of bothering to figure out how to repair the issues (just plain laziness, I know), I just never log in with those session parameters.
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Old 10th November 2011, 02:44 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
I've run into a weird problem though.

My windows are "fixed". As in They stick to the top of the screen.
The top bar seems to have disappeared, so I cant maximize or minimize windows.

I think it happened when I played with the compiz configuration.But I'm not sure.

You must have turned off Window Decorations.
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Old 10th November 2011, 02:50 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by John Albert View Post
You must have turned off Window Decorations.
Ok, the top bar is back. Thanks.

But I still can't move the windows.
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Old 10th November 2011, 03:23 PM   #295
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I think it's called "Move Window"...

While you're at it, you may want to make sure "Resize Window" is checked as well...
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Old 11th November 2011, 01:44 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by John Albert View Post
I think it's called "Move Window"...

While you're at it, you may want to make sure "Resize Window" is checked as well...
Solved.

thanks.
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Old 11th November 2011, 01:52 AM   #297
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It seems that I fall outside the usual Linux stereo-types.

I like simplicity and good design, and I like to keep using my hardware for a long time.

Unlike most Linux fans, I'm not very computer literate at all. I don't even know the specs of my system by heart.

Linux has actually reached the point where someone like me can stick a DVD in a machine, choose a language and a keyboard lay out. And fifteen minutes later have a low-budget Apple.

With Ubuntu, I still had to figure out how to get Flash to work and get codecs (a major hurdle for lame users, underestimated by computer literate people).
With Mint, I literally didn't have to do anything. It just works.
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Old 11th November 2011, 02:06 AM   #298
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Pardus was good like that because the other codecs are included. Naughty? It isn't like pretty much every Linux user downloads them straight away.
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Old 11th November 2011, 05:40 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by Eddie Dane View Post
It seems that I fall outside the usual Linux stereo-types.

I like simplicity and good design, and I like to keep using my hardware for a long time.

Unlike most Linux fans, I'm not very computer literate at all. I don't even know the specs of my system by heart.

Linux has actually reached the point where someone like me can stick a DVD in a machine, choose a language and a keyboard lay out. And fifteen minutes later have a low-budget Apple.

With Ubuntu, I still had to figure out how to get Flash to work and get codecs (a major hurdle for lame users, underestimated by computer literate people).
With Mint, I literally didn't have to do anything. It just works.
You'd be surprised how many Linux users aren't like most Linux fans.

I tend to use the same computer for some time as well, and even though I know how much RAM I have, how fast my processor is and what kind of graphics card I have, I don't know exactly how that affects everything.

At this point, many Linux distros are aimed at user friendliness, meaning that the old "Linux is for geeks" meme is no longer very apt.
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Old 11th November 2011, 06:33 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post
You'd be surprised how many Linux users aren't like most Linux fans.

I tend to use the same computer for some time as well, and even though I know how much RAM I have, how fast my processor is and what kind of graphics card I have, I don't know exactly how that affects everything.

At this point, many Linux distros are aimed at user friendliness, meaning that the old "Linux is for geeks" meme is no longer very apt.
1 option: ubuntu desktop on netbook, just works after install
2 option; damn small linux or like minimalist linux booting from usb stick, using 4 passport drives as a raid arrary with a usb hub, keyboard and monitor with a minipc as the boot mechanism, need lessly complicated but fun
3 option: same ubuntu netbook, backtrack 4 in emulation, different kinda fun....
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Old 11th November 2011, 11:25 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by mikeyx View Post
1 option: ubuntu desktop on netbook, just works after install
2 option; damn small linux or like minimalist linux booting from usb stick, using 4 passport drives as a raid arrary with a usb hub, keyboard and monitor with a minipc as the boot mechanism, need lessly complicated but fun
3 option: same ubuntu netbook, backtrack 4 in emulation, different kinda fun....
Not sure what your point is. Do you mean that the choice is limited, or that Linux is great fun to play around with?

'cause I'm hoping it's the second.
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Old 11th November 2011, 12:29 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post
Not sure what your point is. Do you mean that the choice is limited, or that Linux is great fun to play around with?

'cause I'm hoping it's the second.
pretty much that it can and likely will do what you want it to. Unlike commercial products it can come in many interesting and fun forms and has yet to get boring after many years of playing with it.

Want to play with an alien OS thingey, google oberon system3.
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Old 11th November 2011, 01:02 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by mikeyx View Post
pretty much that it can and likely will do what you want it to. Unlike commercial products it can come in many interesting and fun forms and has yet to get boring after many years of playing with it.

Want to play with an alien OS thingey, google oberon system3.
That's exactly what I've found. Even after 3 years of using Linux, I'm still not in the "it's just a system I use for stuff I need done" state of mind that Windows got me into.

I'm still finding stuff that intrigues me, and I still find things which I want to work on (such as finding a good rolling release distro with a wide array of programs available).

It's an absolute joy.
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Old 11th November 2011, 03:27 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post
But apart from that, it's virtually identical to Ubuntu in all but the GUI and codecs?

In that case, I might just stay with Ubuntu, because I want to try Gnome 3, so I'd have to install it either way.
I wasn't aware the codecs were different, but they are very similar under the hood.
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Old 11th November 2011, 03:28 PM   #305
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I wonder if I could use that Oberon thing to control a brewery...
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Old 11th November 2011, 03:36 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by Alan View Post
I wasn't aware the codecs were different, but they are very similar under the hood.
I meant that the codecs aren't included in Ubuntu, but they are in Linux Mint.
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Old 15th November 2011, 03:34 AM   #307
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All too frequently I make a mistake while typing that overwrites or erases most or all of what I have been entering into a test box, commonly reply boxes on these forums. With recent versions of Windows I would have hit "alt-backspace" to undo my mistake but no such luck with Pardus or, if I remember correctly, Ubuntu.

Anyone got any solutions?
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Old 15th November 2011, 06:03 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
All too frequently I make a mistake while typing that overwrites or erases most or all of what I have been entering into a test box, commonly reply boxes on these forums. With recent versions of Windows I would have hit "alt-backspace" to undo my mistake but no such luck with Pardus or, if I remember correctly, Ubuntu.

Anyone got any solutions?
If I understand you correctly, you would be helped by using ctrl-z.
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Old 15th November 2011, 06:18 AM   #309
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Cheers. That works.
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Old 15th November 2011, 08:11 AM   #310
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And "crtl-shift-z" to redo the undo.

And don't forget that you can go back several steps with crtl-z, and redo several steps with crtl-shift-z. At least in FF.
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Old 15th November 2011, 08:13 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by Lord Emsworth View Post
And "crtl-shift-z" to redo the undo.

And don't forget that you can go back several steps with crtl-z, and redo several steps with crtl-shift-z. At least in FF.
ctrl-y is also redo, and simpler than ctrl-shift-z
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Old 15th November 2011, 08:18 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post
ctrl-y is also redo, and simpler than ctrl-shift-z
It does work. Thanks. (But is it really simpler? YMMV)
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Old 15th November 2011, 08:19 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by Lord Emsworth View Post
It does work. Thanks. (But is it really simpler? YMMV)
It's simpler because you use one less key.
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Old 15th November 2011, 08:29 AM   #314
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Been using Linux exclusively for at least nine years now. It's on my main machine, my old laptop and a little Asus notebook. Linux is great.

Would say that Linux Mint is the tidiest distro I know; used it for last two years (ish).

I am a graphics/web/code guy and of all the apps I used in Winders-land, the only one that there is no alternative for is Flash (the dev environment). That's ok cos I stopped doing that kind of work a while ago.
Other than that, there are good apps for vectors, bitmaps, 3D as well as text, PDF and then coding environments etc.

It can do anything at all. I have forgotten how to use Winders!
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Old 15th November 2011, 08:41 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
Been using Linux exclusively for at least nine years now. It's on my main machine, my old laptop and a little Asus notebook. Linux is great.

Would say that Linux Mint is the tidiest distro I know; used it for last two years (ish).

I am a graphics/web/code guy and of all the apps I used in Winders-land, the only one that there is no alternative for is Flash (the dev environment). That's ok cos I stopped doing that kind of work a while ago.
Other than that, there are good apps for vectors, bitmaps, 3D as well as text, PDF and then coding environments etc.

It can do anything at all. I have forgotten how to use Winders!
If I could make use of your experience, could you recommend a good feed reader/podcatcher combination?

At the moment I'm using Liferea and Gpodder, but I'd prefer to use just one program.

Gpodder has marvellous podcast capabilities, but no regular (non-media) feed support, and Liferea has poor podcast support, so I'm looking for a combo program.

And I also hope that at one point, I can say that I don't know how to use windows, if only because it sounds so freaking awesome.
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Old 15th November 2011, 08:42 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post
It's simpler because you use one less key.
Small problem in the case of crtl and shift. In fact, to me it would be the simplest to have it crtl-z and crtl-shift-z with the z in the bottom left (standard layout), instead of in the middle of the keyboard (German layout).
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Old 15th November 2011, 08:48 AM   #317
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Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post
If I could make use of your experience, could you recommend a good feed reader/podcatcher combination?
I don't listen to podcasts (can't avoid falling asleep, I'm weird) so I have not looked. I use Thunderbird for mail as well as RSS (some RSS I just make bookmarks in Firefox - i.e. subscribe to a feed) and that works well.

Quote:
And I also hope that at one point, I can say that I don't know how to use windows
Baby steps Padawan. It takes magnificent power to forget how to use Winders. I am such a Jedi. Modesty forbids me from further self-praise.
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Old 15th November 2011, 08:52 AM   #318
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Originally Posted by Bram Kaandorp View Post
And I also hope that at one point, I can say that I don't know how to use windows, if only because it sounds so freaking awesome.
You should have gotten a Mac way back when.
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Old 15th November 2011, 08:56 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by Lord Emsworth View Post
You should have gotten a Mac way back when.
Not open enough.
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Old 15th November 2011, 08:58 AM   #320
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Originally Posted by Lord Emsworth View Post
keyboard (German layout).
Not sure if this thread has touched on it but of things non-ascii Linux has a super system to enter characters. It's really natural and flows with one's typing.

Setup your 'compose key' (however your desktop let's you) to something like right-Alt and then you can do:

ä = compose, double-quote, a (all individual presses, not simultaneous)
è = compose, `, e
— = compose, - three times (minus key, press thrice)
© = compose, c, O (capital o)

I hope those came out ok.

I am sure there are more - what are your tips?
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