[Moderated] Money - Page 63

psionl0 · 18th February 2012, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by tensordyne

I have read 10 posts back from the last post. How in the world did Religion creep into this post?

Gawd! You are a glutton for punishment!

The short answer is that Gaetan is a nut.

RoboTimbo · 19th February 2012, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by tensordyne

I have read 10 posts back from the last post. How in the world did Religion creep into this post?

From the opening post referring to money as "a tool of evil" and his third post saying that we live like in hell and his fourth post referring to Satan. It sort of went downhill from there.

It's never been in doubt that this is about his religious nuttery.

tensordyne · 19th February 2012, 06:29 AM

Fantastic, so money really is the root of all evil after all... who would have guessed?

RoboTimbo · 19th February 2012, 06:31 AM

It just doesn't seem to be an educated guess.

tensordyne · 19th February 2012, 06:48 AM

Or a sane one?

Agatha · 19th February 2012, 07:43 AM

If one believes the bible, it's the love of money which is the root of all evil, not the money itself. Gaétan is misquoting scripture for his own ends, to try to persuade people to live in his own personal hell.

balrog666 · 19th February 2012, 11:55 AM

Groundhog Day has already passed ...

Gaetan · 20th February 2012, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Agatha

If one believes the bible, it's the love of money which is the root of all evil, not the money itself. Gaétan is misquoting scripture for his own ends, to try to persuade people to live in his own personal hell.

Jesus said that you can't serve God and money this is one or the other and the reason why he said that is because money is a tool of evil.

Tomtomkent · 20th February 2012, 11:48 AM

No. It meant money could be used for ill. That neither makes money evil, or soley a tool of evil.

Nor does it excuse the evils you wish to commit in place of money.

Craig4 · 20th February 2012, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Jesus said that you can't serve God and money this is one or the other and the reason why he said that is because money is a tool of evil.

He also said, OWWWWWWW OWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.

RoboTimbo · 20th February 2012, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Jesus said that you can't serve God and money this is one or the other and the reason why he said that is because money is a tool of evil.

Since there are no god(s), and I don't serve money anyway, I don't see why you are so concerned about it. Do you think money can be used as a tool of good?

Also, what keeps you from living up to your full potential?

Dinwar · 20th February 2012, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Jesus said that you can't serve God and money

I'd love to see the direct quote involved here. I doubt it's anything like what you say it is. In fact, he said that a rich man could get to Heaven--it'd just be hard.

That said, why should I accept this as an argument? I DO NOT BELIEVE JESUS WAS GOD. I've said that many times, but you've ignored it. Why should I--an infidel, a nonbeliever, an apostate--accept anything said by your god?

And using money is different from serving money. I use a computer--I don't serve it. I use a fork--I don't serve a fork.

balrog666 · 20th February 2012, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Craig4

He also said, OWWWWWWW OWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha!!!!

Weird Science · 20th February 2012, 09:52 PM

I wonder if Gatean has a bank account.

AdMan · 20th February 2012, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by Weird Science

I wonder if Gatean has a bank account.

I hope so; I'm still trying to convince him to act on what he professes to believe and transfer all his Satanic money into my account.

Weird Science · 20th February 2012, 10:47 PM

It's like the folks who claim that federal reserve notes are not REAL money and just worthless bits of paper. I keep asking them, in that case, to give all their spare worthless bits of paper to me, but it never worked.

Joecool · 21st February 2012, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by Dinwar

I'd love to see the direct quote involved here. I doubt it's anything like what you say it is. In fact, he said that a rich man could get to Heaven--it'd just be hard.

That would be Matthew 6:24.

Of course, Gaetan has misunderstood it's meaning. Jesus says you cannot serve both God and money. Thus if your priority if life is to gain more money and store it up, it eventually becomes useless because someday you will die and leave it behind. But the same man who might earn money, but uses some of it to feed orphans or the poor, is doing what is pleasing to God.

In Jesus' days, there was money and he also said give to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar and give to God what belongs to God. Gaetan seems to not understand this part.

AdMan · 21st February 2012, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by Joecool

In Jesus' days, there was money and he also said give to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar and give to God what belongs to God. Gaetan seems to not understand this part.

There is a long and growing list of things that Gaetan does not understand.

Craig4 · 21st February 2012, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Joecool

That would be Matthew 6:24.

Of course, Gaetan has misunderstood it's meaning. Jesus says you cannot serve both God and money. Thus if your priority if life is to gain more money and store it up, it eventually becomes useless because someday you will die and leave it behind. But the same man who might earn money, but uses some of it to feed orphans or the poor, is doing what is pleasing to God.

In Jesus' days, there was money and he also said give to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar and give to God what belongs to God. Gaetan seems to not understand this part.

If anyone resembling Jesus really existed (and I suspect a messianic cult leader did exist) I suspect he said that to avoid being turned into a public act of performance art. Nothing would cause the Romans to break out the wood, nails and post hole digger faster than someone telling people to not pay taxes.

MIKILLINI · 21st February 2012, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Jesus said that you can't serve God and money this is one or the other and the reason why he said that is because money is a tool of evil.

You need some clarification....What Jesus said is a comparison of worship importance; Worship him for he is God, do not worship anything that is not God. Pretty simple except you're twisting it to make an argument that suits you.

So....when God asks you for a 10% tithe, what is he asking for? 10% of your animals? 10% of your labor? 10% of your food? 10% of your material possessions? or perhaps 10% of....money?

Joecool · 22nd February 2012, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Gaetan

J because money is a tool of evil.

Money is paper with ink on it, or stamped pieces of metal. In the old days, it might have been gold pieces or bags of salt. Money only represents something of value. Money allows us to store up that value. Much like a rodent might store up food for the long winter, people store up money for various reasons. It allows us to have time off from working because our money (stored up value) can be used to obtain items when we are not working.

Money in and of itself is not evil. It is the person who uses money. Money is no more evil than a knife, or a car, or a rock. Money can be used to feed orphans or build wells for people in desert areas. That money can be used for good is evidence that money itself is not evil.

What makes it evil is misguided people like Gaetan.

Tomtomkent · 22nd February 2012, 09:27 PM

So what the OP actually suggests is social entrophy and massive hardship for those forced by circumstance to work, to allow others to choose to have all they want provided for them?

Doesn't sound very moral.

Gatean has yet to offer any viable model for this, and no moneyless society matches his description.oh yes. So he has no idea how it would work beyond a daydream where he plays golf as his days work.

How could such a plan fail?

dafydd · 23rd February 2012, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Weird Science

I wonder if Gatean has a bank account.

I have good reason to believe that he has a bank account.

Gaetan · 23rd February 2012, 06:09 PM

What comes from God is free and what you do for God is also free. Volontary work is free and this is working for God and what you do for poors is what you do to God. Anything you do for Satan like working for money is never free and what Satan do for you is also never free. Just remember. In this world we live like in hell and we got to change it to live like it is in heaven in other to survive.

RoboTimbo · 23rd February 2012, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Gaetan

What comes from God is free and what you do for God is also free.

Doing things for god(s) would be goofy since god(s) don't exist. There isn't anything that comes from god(s) since they don't exist.

Quote:

Volontary work is free and this is working for God and what you do for poors is what you do to God.

No, voluntary work takes time away from doing other things which could be benefitting me and my family. I do it willingly but it isn't free. Why did you think it was?

Quote:

Anything you do for Satan like working for money is never free and what Satan do for you is also never free.

You've given up all of your money then? Or is that just another lie because you're the evil Satan trying to trick people again. You want to steal babies from their mothers and make slaves of your neighbors. You're the most evil thing there is.

Quote:

Just remember. In this world we live like in hell and we got to change it to live like it is in heaven in other to survive.

There is no heaven or hell. Those are just make believe places created by some people so they can control the minds of other people. You're proving the point very well.

We already discussed how religion is used for controlling people and how you want to use your weird religion to control other people. The forces of Good have defeated your Evil.

AdMan · 23rd February 2012, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Gaetan

What comes from God is free and what you do for God is also free. Volontary work is free and this is working for God and what you do for poors is what you do to God. Anything you do for Satan like working for money is never free and what Satan do for you is also never free. Just remember. In this world we live like in hell and we got to change it to live like it is in heaven in other to survive.

Off-topic religious bull$#@%.

MIKILLINI · 23rd February 2012, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by Gaetan

What comes from God is free and what you do for God is also free. Volontary work is free and this is working for God and what you do for poors is what you do to God. Anything you do for Satan like working for money is never free and what Satan do for you is also never free.

I give donations to the Salvation Army in the form of money and clothing items that were previously purchased with money. The Salvation Army is a Christian based organization that accepts these donations and distributes them to the poor.

So...to compare what you're saying to my method of donation choice is that a Christian based organization (or any church that accepts donations from their congregation) accepts a "tool" of Satan?

Craig4 · 23rd February 2012, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by Gaetan

What comes from God is free and what you do for God is also free. Volontary work is free and this is working for God and what you do for poors is what you do to God. Anything you do for Satan like working for money is never free and what Satan do for you is also never free. Just remember. In this world we live like in hell and we got to change it to live like it is in heaven in other to survive.

There is no god. Your life is based on a lie. I see no compelling reason to destroy civilization over to stupid fairy story. Nothing is ever free. You need to learn the Laws of Thermodynamics.

Gaetan · 24th February 2012, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by MIKILLINI

I give donations to the Salvation Army in the form of money and clothing items that were previously purchased with money. The Salvation Army is a Christian based organization that accepts these donations and distributes them to the poor.

So...to compare what you're saying to my method of donation choice is that a Christian based organization (or any church that accepts donations from their congregation) accepts a "tool" of Satan?

.

if you gave that money without asking for something in return, for free, this is an act of God. Money is a tool of evil to give equity for something, work, goods, if you give work goods or money for free you act like God tells you to do

RoboTimbo · 24th February 2012, 06:46 AM

Religious nuttery. Do you have any arguments on the topic?

Joecool · 24th February 2012, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by Gaetan

.

if you gave that money without asking for something in return, for free, this is an act of God. Money is a tool of evil to give equity for something, work, goods, if you give work goods or money for free you act like God tells you to do

Okay then perform an act of God and give me all of your money. God is telling you to give me all of your money. Will you listen to God or not?

Dinwar · 24th February 2012, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Gaetan

if you gave that money without asking for something in return, for free, this is an act of God.

I do not believe in your god. This is the equivalent of saying "Harry Potter says to not use electronic devices!" as far as I'm concerned. Why should I care at all what your god says?

And I have to say, it's quite telling that the tools of Satan build industrialized nations and allow us a standard of living that was beyond the wildest dreams of rulers in the Age of Faith. God's methods, on the other hand, led to rampant hunger and famine, constant warfare, pandemics that left a permanent mark on our genetic code, and untold suffering, agony, and death. The ideal of Satan's world is a businessman confidently shaking hands with another businessman, having just made a deal that made them both rich as well as raising the standard of living of every other person in that society. The symbol of your god's society is a dark hall made even more oppressive by the constant muttering of psalms, where every action is communal and done to the soundtrack of scripture, where even bowl movements must be done in such a way as to preserve anonymity lest the individual assert himself ("Medieval Monasticism", byt C. H. Lawrence--and bear in mind, this guy is quite sympathetic to monasticism; he's on YOUR side here). Satan seems to like humans more than your god does.

Gaetan · 24th February 2012, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Dinwar

And I have to say, it's quite telling that the tools of Satan build industrialized nations and allow us a standard of living that was beyond the wildest dreams of rulers in the Age of Faith. God's methods, on the other hand, led to rampant hunger and famine, constant warfare, pandemics that left a permanent mark on our genetic code, and untold suffering, agony, and death. The ideal of Satan's world is a businessman confidently shaking hands with another businessman, having just made a deal that made them both rich as well as raising the standard of living of every other person in that society. The symbol of your god's society is a dark hall made even more oppressive by the constant muttering of psalms, where every action is communal and done to the soundtrack of scripture, where even bowl movements must be done in such a way as to preserve anonymity lest the individual assert himself ("Medieval Monasticism", byt C. H. Lawrence--and bear in mind, this guy is quite sympathetic to monasticism; he's on YOUR side here). Satan seems to like humans more than your god does.

This has been discussed and your tool of evil brought starvation and misery to at least 40% of the world population living with less than $2 dollars dailay and you are not a lot better off with $5 dollars anyway, it has been proved that your system works for only 5% of the world population who live fairly well with your system.

RoboTimbo · 24th February 2012, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Gaetan

This has been discussed and your tool of evil brought starvation and misery to at least 40% of the world population living with less than $2 dollars dailay and you are not a lot better off with $5 dollars anyway, it has been proved that your system works for only 5% of the world population who live fairly well with your system.

Where was that proved? Only the evil Satan would lie like you are.

Joecool · 24th February 2012, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Gaetan

This has been discussed and your tool of evil brought starvation and misery to at least 40% of the world population living with less than $2 dollars dailay and you are not a lot better off with $5 dollars anyway, it has been proved that your system works for only 5% of the world population who live fairly well with your system.

Why do you refer to this $2 a day ad nauseum. In a poor country, that $2 a day might be enough to eat three good meals. It's all relative. In a country with little resources, having more money doesn't mean you'll have more to eat. You could have a billion dollars and it will do you little good if you're in the middle of the sonoran desert with no water.

You have yet to provide even a remote theory as to how your moneyless system could work in real life.

Dinwar · 24th February 2012, 12:29 PM

Quote:

This has been discussed

I've shown this to be a lie again and again. A discussion requires a two-way conversation, by definition. What you do is rant.

Quote:

your tool of evil brought starvation and misery to at least 40% of the world population living with less than $2 dollars dailay

And before money they were living two dozen years, dying of horrifying diseases, and so on. Plus, you don't understand how the value of a dollar varies according to the local economy.

Quote:

and you are not a lot better off with $5 dollars anyway,

Your "solution" is to go to $0/day.

Quote:

it has been proved that your system works for only 5% of the world population who live fairly well with your system.

No, you've merely misquoted research you didn't fully read. Plus, it's been proven quite eloquently that you're wrong--the whole of the developed world, from China to Europe to the Americas to Australia, demonstrates that.

Further, you've yet to address the fact that the proper way to worship your god--ACCORDING TO PEOPLE WHO AGREE(D) WITH YOU--is to abandon all individualism, live in a cramped stone or dirt hut, horrified that someone, somewhere may do something not ordained by your god, inundated by the constant recitation of your god's holy book. If you're going to demand we obey your god, please address this question.

Also, please explain why I, a person who DOES NOT BELIEVE IN YOUR GOD, would possibly care what your god had to say about anything. Your god is, to me, less significant than Spider Jerusalem. Why should I give him any more credibility?

Beelzebuddy · 24th February 2012, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Dinwar

Your god is, to me, less significant than Spider Jerusalem. Why should I give him any more credibility?

Jesus could turn water into wine, while Spider could barely manage wine into water.

Gaetan · 24th February 2012, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Dinwar

I've shown this to be a lie again and again. A discussion requires a two-way conversation, by definition. What you do is rant.

And before money they were living two dozen years, dying of horrifying diseases, and so on. Plus, you don't understand how the value of a dollar varies according to the local economy.

Your "solution" is to go to $0/day.

No, you've merely misquoted research you didn't fully read. Plus, it's been proven quite eloquently that you're wrong--the whole of the developed world, from China to Europe to the Americas to Australia, demonstrates that.

Further, you've yet to address the fact that the proper way to worship your god--ACCORDING TO PEOPLE WHO AGREE(D) WITH YOU--is to abandon all individualism, live in a cramped stone or dirt hut, horrified that someone, somewhere may do something not ordained by your god, inundated by the constant recitation of your god's holy book. If you're going to demand we obey your god, please address this question.

Also, please explain why I, a person who DOES NOT BELIEVE IN YOUR GOD, would possibly care what your god had to say about anything. Your god is, to me, less significant than Spider Jerusalem. Why should I give him any more credibility?

I see that money works for you egoist but it doesn't work for 95% of the world wide population so we got to get rid of it.

Dinwar · 24th February 2012, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Gaetan

I see that money works for you egoist

I'm an Objectivist. If you think calling me an egoist is an insult, you don't understand Objectivism.

Quote:

but it doesn't work for 95% of the world wide population so we got to get rid of it.

Interestingly, that 95% is practicing what YOU preach--central planning, dictatorial controls, etc. They're NOT practicing capitalism. Which again proves that your system is unworkable.

RoboTimbo · 24th February 2012, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Gaetan

I see that money works for you egoist but it doesn't work for 95% of the world wide population so we got to get rid of it.

I notice that you haven't gotten rid of yours yet.

19th February 2012, 06:29 AM	#2483
tensordyne Muse Join Date: May 2010 Location: none of your business Posts: 693	Fantastic, so money really is the root of all evil after all... who would have guessed?
	__________________ I learned much from the Order of the Jesuits. Until now, there has never been anything more grandiose, on the earth, than the hierarchical organization of the Catholic church. I transferred much of this organization into my own party. — Hitler, 1933

19th February 2012, 06:48 AM	#2485
tensordyne Muse Join Date: May 2010 Location: none of your business Posts: 693	Or a sane one?
	__________________ I learned much from the Order of the Jesuits. Until now, there has never been anything more grandiose, on the earth, than the hierarchical organization of the Catholic church. I transferred much of this organization into my own party. — Hitler, 1933

19th February 2012, 07:43 AM	#2486
Agatha Winking at the Moon Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: UK Posts: 4,216	If one believes the bible, it's the love of money which is the root of all evil, not the money itself. Gaétan is misquoting scripture for his own ends, to try to persuade people to live in his own personal hell.
	__________________ People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... timey wimey... stuff.

19th February 2012, 11:55 AM	#2487
balrog666 Eigenmode: Cynic Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,527	Groundhog Day has already passed ...
	__________________ A person who won't think has no advantage over one who can't think. - (paraphrased) Mark Twain Diversity--When all colors and creeds believe exactly as liberals want them to. Or Else! -Coyote

20th February 2012, 11:42 AM	#2488
Gaetan Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,338	Originally Posted by Agatha If one believes the bible, it's the love of money which is the root of all evil, not the money itself. Gaétan is misquoting scripture for his own ends, to try to persuade people to live in his own personal hell. Jesus said that you can't serve God and money this is one or the other and the reason why he said that is because money is a tool of evil.
Gaetan Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,338

18th February 2012, 08:50 PM	#2481
psionl0 Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: 31°58'S 115°57'E Posts: 4,768	Originally Posted by tensordyne I have read 10 posts back from the last post. How in the world did Religion creep into this post? Gawd! You are a glutton for punishment! The short answer is that Gaetan is a nut.

19th February 2012, 06:11 AM	#2482
RoboTimbo Hostile Nanobacon Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Prosperity, AZ Posts: 21,859	Originally Posted by tensordyne I have read 10 posts back from the last post. How in the world did Religion creep into this post? From the opening post referring to money as "a tool of evil" and his third post saying that we live like in hell and his fourth post referring to Satan. It sort of went downhill from there. It's never been in doubt that this is about his religious nuttery.

19th February 2012, 06:31 AM	#2484
RoboTimbo Hostile Nanobacon Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Prosperity, AZ Posts: 21,859	It just doesn't seem to be an educated guess.

20th February 2012, 11:48 AM	#2489
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Kent, United Kingdom Posts: 5,213	No. It meant money could be used for ill. That neither makes money evil, or soley a tool of evil. Nor does it excuse the evils you wish to commit in place of money.
	__________________ @tomhodden No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

20th February 2012, 11:57 AM	#2490
Craig4 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 5,363	Originally Posted by Gaetan Jesus said that you can't serve God and money this is one or the other and the reason why he said that is because money is a tool of evil. He also said, OWWWWWWW OWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.
Craig4 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 5,363

20th February 2012, 12:09 PM	#2491
RoboTimbo Hostile Nanobacon Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Prosperity, AZ Posts: 21,859	Originally Posted by Gaetan Jesus said that you can't serve God and money this is one or the other and the reason why he said that is because money is a tool of evil. Since there are no god(s), and I don't serve money anyway, I don't see why you are so concerned about it. Do you think money can be used as a tool of good? Also, what keeps you from living up to your full potential?

20th February 2012, 03:44 PM	#2492
Dinwar Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 8,931	Originally Posted by Gaetan Jesus said that you can't serve God and money I'd love to see the direct quote involved here. I doubt it's anything like what you say it is. In fact, he said that a rich man could get to Heaven--it'd just be hard. That said, why should I accept this as an argument? *I DO NOT BELIEVE JESUS WAS GOD.* I've said that many times, but you've ignored it. Why should I--an infidel, a nonbeliever, an apostate--accept anything said by your god? And using money is different from serving money. I use a computer--I don't serve it. I use a fork--I don't serve a fork.
Dinwar Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 8,931	__________________ GENERATION 8: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment. Ein krieg ohne feinde.

20th February 2012, 06:12 PM	#2493
balrog666 Eigenmode: Cynic Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,527	Originally Posted by Craig4 He also said, OWWWWWWW OWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha!!!!
	__________________ A person who won't think has no advantage over one who can't think. - (paraphrased) Mark Twain Diversity--When all colors and creeds believe exactly as liberals want them to. Or Else! -Coyote

20th February 2012, 09:52 PM	#2494
Weird Science Banned Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 271	I wonder if Gatean has a bank account.
Weird Science Banned Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 271

20th February 2012, 10:05 PM	#2495
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,173	Originally Posted by Weird Science I wonder if Gatean has a bank account. I hope so; I'm still trying to convince him to act on what he professes to believe and transfer all his Satanic money into my account.
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,173	__________________ It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

20th February 2012, 10:47 PM	#2496
Weird Science Banned Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 271	It's like the folks who claim that federal reserve notes are not REAL money and just worthless bits of paper. I keep asking them, in that case, to give all their spare worthless bits of paper to me, but it never worked.
Weird Science Banned Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 271

21st February 2012, 08:53 AM	#2497
Joecool Muse Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Hawaii Posts: 936	Originally Posted by Dinwar I'd love to see the direct quote involved here. I doubt it's anything like what you say it is. In fact, he said that a rich man could get to Heaven--it'd just be hard. That would be Matthew 6:24. Of course, Gaetan has misunderstood it's meaning. Jesus says you cannot serve both God and money. Thus if your priority if life is to gain more money and store it up, it eventually becomes useless because someday you will die and leave it behind. But the same man who might earn money, but uses some of it to feed orphans or the poor, is doing what is pleasing to God. In Jesus' days, there was money and he also said give to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar and give to God what belongs to God. Gaetan seems to not understand this part.

21st February 2012, 09:03 AM	#2498
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,173	Originally Posted by Joecool In Jesus' days, there was money and he also said give to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar and give to God what belongs to God. Gaetan seems to not understand this part. There is a long and growing list of things that Gaetan does not understand.
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,173	__________________ It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

21st February 2012, 10:15 AM	#2499
Craig4 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 5,363	Originally Posted by Joecool That would be Matthew 6:24. Of course, Gaetan has misunderstood it's meaning. Jesus says you cannot serve both God and money. Thus if your priority if life is to gain more money and store it up, it eventually becomes useless because someday you will die and leave it behind. But the same man who might earn money, but uses some of it to feed orphans or the poor, is doing what is pleasing to God. In Jesus' days, there was money and he also said give to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar and give to God what belongs to God. Gaetan seems to not understand this part. If anyone resembling Jesus really existed (and I suspect a messianic cult leader did exist) I suspect he said that to avoid being turned into a public act of performance art. Nothing would cause the Romans to break out the wood, nails and post hole digger faster than someone telling people to not pay taxes.
Craig4 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 5,363

21st February 2012, 07:01 PM	#2500
MIKILLINI Incromulent Logic Join Date: May 2007 Location: The Illini State Posts: 2,877	Originally Posted by Gaetan Jesus said that you can't serve God and money this is one or the other and the reason why he said that is because money is a tool of evil. You need some clarification....What Jesus said is a comparison of worship importance; Worship him for he is God, do not worship anything that is not God. Pretty simple except you're twisting it to make an argument that suits you. So....when God asks you for a 10% tithe, what is he asking for? 10% of your animals? 10% of your labor? 10% of your food? 10% of your material possessions? or perhaps 10% of....money?
	__________________ Attempting to build a case without evidence is just another day spent with no use of common sense. The conspiracist is not merely illogical: he assaults logic.~ Pomeroo Sylvia Browne is not a medium, she's a mediocre.

22nd February 2012, 12:55 PM	#2501
Joecool Muse Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Hawaii Posts: 936	Originally Posted by Gaetan J because money is a tool of evil. Money is paper with ink on it, or stamped pieces of metal. In the old days, it might have been gold pieces or bags of salt. Money only represents something of value. Money allows us to store up that value. Much like a rodent might store up food for the long winter, people store up money for various reasons. It allows us to have time off from working because our money (stored up value) can be used to obtain items when we are not working. Money in and of itself is not evil. It is the person who uses money. Money is no more evil than a knife, or a car, or a rock. Money can be used to feed orphans or build wells for people in desert areas. That money can be used for good is evidence that money itself is not evil. What makes it evil is misguided people like Gaetan.

22nd February 2012, 09:27 PM	#2502
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Kent, United Kingdom Posts: 5,213	So what the OP actually suggests is social entrophy and massive hardship for those forced by circumstance to work, to allow others to choose to have all they want provided for them? Doesn't sound very moral. Gatean has yet to offer any viable model for this, and no moneyless society matches his description.oh yes. So he has no idea how it would work beyond a daydream where he plays golf as his days work. How could such a plan fail?
	__________________ @tomhodden No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

23rd February 2012, 03:29 PM	#2503
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,466	Originally Posted by Weird Science I wonder if Gatean has a bank account. I have good reason to believe that he has a bank account.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

23rd February 2012, 06:09 PM	#2504
Gaetan Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,338	What comes from God is free and what you do for God is also free. Volontary work is free and this is working for God and what you do for poors is what you do to God. Anything you do for Satan like working for money is never free and what Satan do for you is also never free. Just remember. In this world we live like in hell and we got to change it to live like it is in heaven in other to survive.
Gaetan Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,338

23rd February 2012, 06:33 PM	#2505
RoboTimbo Hostile Nanobacon Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Prosperity, AZ Posts: 21,859	Originally Posted by Gaetan What comes from God is free and what you do for God is also free. Doing things for god(s) would be goofy since god(s) don't exist. There isn't anything that comes from god(s) since they don't exist. Quote: Volontary work is free and this is working for God and what you do for poors is what you do to God. No, voluntary work takes time away from doing other things which could be benefitting me and my family. I do it willingly but it isn't free. Why did you think it was? Quote: Anything you do for Satan like working for money is never free and what Satan do for you is also never free. You've given up all of your money then? Or is that just another lie because you're the evil Satan trying to trick people again. You want to steal babies from their mothers and make slaves of your neighbors. You're the most evil thing there is. Quote: Just remember. In this world we live like in hell and we got to change it to live like it is in heaven in other to survive. There is no heaven or hell. Those are just make believe places created by some people so they can control the minds of other people. You're proving the point very well. We already discussed how religion is used for controlling people and how you want to use your weird religion to control other people. The forces of Good have defeated your Evil.

23rd February 2012, 06:50 PM	#2506
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,173	Originally Posted by Gaetan What comes from God is free and what you do for God is also free. Volontary work is free and this is working for God and what you do for poors is what you do to God. Anything you do for Satan like working for money is never free and what Satan do for you is also never free. Just remember. In this world we live like in hell and we got to change it to live like it is in heaven in other to survive. Off-topic religious bull$#@%.
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,173	__________________ It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

23rd February 2012, 07:34 PM	#2507
MIKILLINI Incromulent Logic Join Date: May 2007 Location: The Illini State Posts: 2,877	Originally Posted by Gaetan What comes from God is free and what you do for God is also free. Volontary work is free and this is working for God and what you do for poors is what you do to God. Anything you do for Satan like working for money is never free and what Satan do for you is also never free. I give donations to the Salvation Army in the form of money and clothing items that were previously purchased with money. The Salvation Army is a Christian based organization that accepts these donations and distributes them to the poor. So...to compare what you're saying to my method of donation choice is that a Christian based organization (or any church that accepts donations from their congregation) accepts a "tool" of Satan?
	__________________ Attempting to build a case without evidence is just another day spent with no use of common sense. The conspiracist is not merely illogical: he assaults logic.~ Pomeroo Sylvia Browne is not a medium, she's a mediocre. Last edited by MIKILLINI; 23rd February 2012 at 07:35 PM.

23rd February 2012, 08:17 PM	#2508
Craig4 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 5,363	Originally Posted by Gaetan What comes from God is free and what you do for God is also free. Volontary work is free and this is working for God and what you do for poors is what you do to God. Anything you do for Satan like working for money is never free and what Satan do for you is also never free. Just remember. In this world we live like in hell and we got to change it to live like it is in heaven in other to survive. There is no god. Your life is based on a lie. I see no compelling reason to destroy civilization over to stupid fairy story. Nothing is ever free. You need to learn the Laws of Thermodynamics.
Craig4 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 5,363

24th February 2012, 06:36 AM	#2509
Gaetan Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,338	Originally Posted by MIKILLINI I give donations to the Salvation Army in the form of money and clothing items that were previously purchased with money. The Salvation Army is a Christian based organization that accepts these donations and distributes them to the poor. So...to compare what you're saying to my method of donation choice is that a Christian based organization (or any church that accepts donations from their congregation) accepts a "tool" of Satan? . if you gave that money without asking for something in return, for free, this is an act of God. Money is a tool of evil to give equity for something, work, goods, if you give work goods or money for free you act like God tells you to do
Gaetan Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,338

24th February 2012, 06:46 AM	#2510
RoboTimbo Hostile Nanobacon Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Prosperity, AZ Posts: 21,859	Religious nuttery. Do you have any arguments on the topic?

24th February 2012, 09:02 AM	#2511
Joecool Muse Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Hawaii Posts: 936	Originally Posted by Gaetan . if you gave that money without asking for something in return, for free, this is an act of God. Money is a tool of evil to give equity for something, work, goods, if you give work goods or money for free you act like God tells you to do Okay then perform an act of God and give me all of your money. God is telling you to give me all of your money. Will you listen to God or not?

24th February 2012, 09:29 AM	#2512
Dinwar Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 8,931	Originally Posted by Gaetan if you gave that money without asking for something in return, for free, this is an act of God. I do not believe in your god. This is the equivalent of saying "Harry Potter says to not use electronic devices!" as far as I'm concerned. Why should I care at all what your god says? And I have to say, it's quite telling that the tools of Satan build industrialized nations and allow us a standard of living that was beyond the wildest dreams of rulers in the Age of Faith. God's methods, on the other hand, led to rampant hunger and famine, constant warfare, pandemics that left a permanent mark on our genetic code, and untold suffering, agony, and death. The ideal of Satan's world is a businessman confidently shaking hands with another businessman, having just made a deal that made them both rich as well as raising the standard of living of every other person in that society. The symbol of your god's society is a dark hall made even more oppressive by the constant muttering of psalms, where every action is communal and done to the soundtrack of scripture, where even bowl movements must be done in such a way as to preserve anonymity lest the individual assert himself ("Medieval Monasticism", byt C. H. Lawrence--and bear in mind, this guy is quite sympathetic to monasticism; he's on YOUR side here). Satan seems to like humans more than your god does.
Dinwar Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 8,931	__________________ GENERATION 8: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment. Ein krieg ohne feinde.

24th February 2012, 11:14 AM	#2513
Gaetan Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,338	Originally Posted by Dinwar And I have to say, it's quite telling that the tools of Satan build industrialized nations and allow us a standard of living that was beyond the wildest dreams of rulers in the Age of Faith. God's methods, on the other hand, led to rampant hunger and famine, constant warfare, pandemics that left a permanent mark on our genetic code, and untold suffering, agony, and death. The ideal of Satan's world is a businessman confidently shaking hands with another businessman, having just made a deal that made them both rich as well as raising the standard of living of every other person in that society. The symbol of your god's society is a dark hall made even more oppressive by the constant muttering of psalms, where every action is communal and done to the soundtrack of scripture, where even bowl movements must be done in such a way as to preserve anonymity lest the individual assert himself ("Medieval Monasticism", byt C. H. Lawrence--and bear in mind, this guy is quite sympathetic to monasticism; he's on YOUR side here). Satan seems to like humans more than your god does. This has been discussed and your tool of evil brought starvation and misery to at least 40% of the world population living with less than $2 dollars dailay and you are not a lot better off with $5 dollars anyway, it has been proved that your system works for only 5% of the world population who live fairly well with your system.
Gaetan Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,338

24th February 2012, 11:15 AM	#2514
RoboTimbo Hostile Nanobacon Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Prosperity, AZ Posts: 21,859	Originally Posted by Gaetan This has been discussed and your tool of evil brought starvation and misery to at least 40% of the world population living with less than $2 dollars dailay and you are not a lot better off with $5 dollars anyway, it has been proved that your system works for only 5% of the world population who live fairly well with your system. Where was that proved? Only the evil Satan would lie like you are.

24th February 2012, 11:59 AM	#2515
Joecool Muse Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Hawaii Posts: 936	Originally Posted by Gaetan This has been discussed and your tool of evil brought starvation and misery to at least 40% of the world population living with less than $2 dollars dailay and you are not a lot better off with $5 dollars anyway, it has been proved that your system works for only 5% of the world population who live fairly well with your system. Why do you refer to this $2 a day ad nauseum. In a poor country, that $2 a day might be enough to eat three good meals. It's all relative. In a country with little resources, having more money doesn't mean you'll have more to eat. You could have a billion dollars and it will do you little good if you're in the middle of the sonoran desert with no water. You have yet to provide even a remote theory as to how your moneyless system could work in real life.