Moderated: Money

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

What would be the use of discrimination if there is no money profit to make from it.

What was the use of slavery on Utopia?

[Joecool]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

What would be the use of discrimination if there is no money profit to make from it.

And what makes you think that a no money society will be free of discrimination? What makes you think that society's current problems will disappear if there is no money? You will have just as many, probably more problems which will come in the form of unintended consequences.

[Dinwar]

Quote:

What i said is that black, or who is not white is systematicly discriminated, it is all about profit and money.

Right. You're saying that BECAUSE WE DON'T GIVE PEOPLE ENOUGH EVIL TOOLS we are evil. You're saying that I, as a white person, discriminate against blacks without evidence--in other words, slander (this is because you're discussing groups, without any caveats in place to allow for individual variation). And you're saying that all discrimination is all about money WITHOUT EVIDENCE.

It's completely nonsensical and if you'd think about it logically for thirty seconds you'd see that it all collapses like a house of cards in a 6.0 earthquake.

Quote:

When you use money you must have laws like a positive discrimination.

We need laws to force us to give THE TOOL OF THE DEVIL to those who don't have enough.

You're talking worse nonsense than usual.

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by Joecool

And what makes you think that a no money society will be free of discrimination?

For what reason, according to the statistics i shew you all this is caused by money and profit, nothing less. That's why white american brought black in america and that why they kept the discriminating level high to make profit from it.

[AdMan]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

For what reason, according to the statistics i shew you all this is caused by money and profit, nothing less. That's why white american brought black in america and that why they kept the discriminating level high to make profit from it.

Your knowledge of history is as bad as your knowledge of economics.

[Dinwar]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

For what reason, according to the statistics i shew you all this is caused by money and profit, nothing less. That's why white american brought black in america and that why they kept the discriminating level high to make profit from it.

Your grammar and spelling are getting worse. That's a troubling indicator.

The yellow highlighted part is a lie. It simply shows that money is INVOLVED IN some examples of discrimination IN THE PAST. The only one asserting that the discrimination is caused by money is you, based on a flat-out textbook Argument from Incredulity.

I don't expect you to learn anything, or even care, but slavery was an extremely complex sociological issue, far more than an economic one. Yes, it was a horrendous violation of the rights of the slaves; in their memory and to show due respect for what they went through we are obligated to look at the institution as it was practiced. Your gross oversimplification of the situation is a tremendous disservice to their memory. Slavery involved a great many things, from money to the world-view of the practitioners to international relations to tribal warfare in Africa (a lot of African slaves [meaning those born in Africa and shipped over] were sold by black Africans). There was prestige involved, and social standing (not always the same thing), and tradition, far more so than money. Again, look at the cost of owning a slave sometime; it's higher than you think.

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

For what reason, according to the statistics i shew you all this is caused by money and profit, nothing less. That's why white american brought black in america and that why they kept the discriminating level high to make profit from it.

Is this what they teach at Hamburger U?

[Joecool]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

For what reason, according to the statistics i shew you all this is caused by money and profit, nothing less. That's why white american brought black in america and that why they kept the discriminating level high to make profit from it.

Strange how you bring up discrimination and compare it to slavery. Yet in the utopian model that you want to copy, there are slaves. The slaves are either people captured from neighboring areas or your own people who don't comply with your silly moneyless society rules. You keep referring to profit as if it were evil, but your no money society is likely to have far worse problems than a society with money.

[MIKILLINI]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

What would be the use of discrimination if there is no money profit to make from it.

Discrimination is learned/taught from other people; If money is "suddenly" gone, discrimination does not "suddenly" go away. Those who discriminate will continue having a "superiority" complex and continue to view others as "inferior".
This argument is another fail, Gaetan..

[Little 10 Toes]

What about discrimination in other parts of the world? Or is there a specific reason you mention the USA?

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

This is exactly what it is, when you use an evil tool, you got a lots of evil problems, don't you see the racial evil money problem or are you blind. What i said is that black, or who is not white is systematicly discriminated, it is all about profit and money. When you use money you must have laws like a positive discrimination. White majority are in power and what the do is to make discrimination so they get the best wages. This is a racial crime back up by money profit.

You're not much into this "evidence" game, are you ?

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

For what reason, according to the statistics i shew you all this is caused by money and profit, nothing less.

You have done nothing of the sort. You are deluded.

[Tomtomkent]

Gaetan, will you EVER list which of the crimes i asked about are high profit?

Is child abuse high profit? Who profits? You quoted the question but didn't answer it.

[Border Reiver]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

What would be the use of discrimination if there is no money profit to make from it.

It would allow those of us that work and provide the resources the opportunity to prevent the leeches who won't work in your "no money, all work is free" system from taking our stuff. It will stop the big scary --- from over the hill that we really don't know from coming into contact with us and possibily obtaining greater sexual favours than we are getting from other members of the group.

Could be hundreds of reasons, most of which will originate with fear and distrust that people tend to feel for the stranger

[Gaetan]

What the statistic says is that if there is a good job, job lets say who is paid $30 an hour, that job is systematicly taken by a white even if there is 5 black who could do it. That's why there is positive discrimination program. What would be the reason to not give the job to the black if the job is paid $0dollard, if the job is volontary work as in no money system. You see, heinous crimes, racial, discrimination are all about profit, if there would be no profit to make from it there would be no such crimes.

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

What the statistic says is that if there is a good job, job lets say who is paid $30 an hour, that job is systematicly taken by a white even if there is 5 black who could do it. That's why there is positive discrimination program. What would be the reason to not give the job to the black if the job is paid $0dollard, if the job is volontary work as in no money system. You see, heinous crimes, racial, discrimination are all about profit, if there would be no profit to make from it there would be no such crimes.

Why was there slavery on the fictional island of Utopia?

[Gaetan]

You see, you people ought to live like in hell with no law or rules? If you want to live like in hell you need all kinds of laws and rules, judges, prisons and all you need to live in hell in this world. You see, not only they give the well paid jobs to white but also the minimum wage jobs and the black is unemployed, i call that evil crimes, how do you call that?

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

You see, you people ought to live like in hell with no law or rules? If you want to live like in hell you need all kinds of laws and rules, judges, prisons and all you need to live in hell in this world. You see, not only they give the well paid jobs to white but also the minimum wage jobs and the black is unemployed, i call that evil crimes, how do you call that?

I call it nonsense.

[Dinwar]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

You see, not only they give the well paid jobs to white but also the minimum wage jobs and the black is unemployed, i call that evil crimes, how do you call that?

Considering the number of black people who've worked over, alongside, and under me, the number of immegrants I've worked beside and studied with and under in school, etc., I'd call this "a lie". Not all those immegrants were day laborers, either; in fact, most were in management positions.

Also, it can't be forgotten that a black man IS OUR PRESIDENT. You simply cannot get a more powerful position. In the past there was racism. Some individuals are still racist today. But the nation? Not so much.

Quote:

What the statistic says is that if there is a good job, job lets say who is paid $30 an hour, that job is systematicly taken by a white even if there is 5 black who could do it.

Right--but your statistics are from the 1940s. I suggest you look at that little clock thing at the bottom of your computer screen.

Quote:

What would be the reason to not give the job to the black if the job is paid $0dollard, if the job is volontary work as in no money system.

What's the reason to not give a job to a black man or woman today? It sure as shooting isn't money--if you don't comply with federal labor laws you lose a great deal of the green stuff. You have no concept of how complex the issue of racism is, and your remarkably ignorant statements aren't helping fight racism at all. In fact, someone spouting off such stupidities as "The only reason for discrimination is money" will HURT the cause.

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by Dinwar

Considering the number of black people who've worked over, alongside, and under me, the number of immegrants I've worked beside and studied with and under in school, etc., I'd call this "a lie". Not all those immegrants were day laborers, either; in fact, most were in management positions.

Also, it can't be forgotten that a black man IS OUR PRESIDENT. You simply cannot get a more powerful position. In the past there was racism. Some individuals are still racist today. But the nation? Not so much.

Right--but your statistics are from the 1940s. I suggest you look at that little clock thing at the bottom of your computer screen.

What's the reason to not give a job to a black man or woman today? It sure as shooting isn't money--if you don't comply with federal labor laws you lose a great deal of the green stuff. You have no concept of how complex the issue of racism is, and your remarkably ignorant statements aren't helping fight racism at all. In fact, someone spouting off such stupidities as "The only reason for discrimination is money" will HURT the cause.

What you says are lies because they don't appear in statistic and on the street either,, what the statistics says is that black or immigrants can't find a well paid job or no job at all, that's what the statistics says, that's what the science says. So if you out to live like in hell, nothing is free in hell, they don't use money but they get paid in favors, goods, barter is the law, so if you out to live like in hell, what you need are laws, rules, prisons, polices, lawers, judges. With the no money system we don't need that because almost all crimes will desappear because the problem, money, won't be use anymore.

[Dinwar]

Quote:

What you says are lies because they don't appear in statistic and on the street either,,

I don't care what the statistics say, I've worked under, with, and supervising people of pretty much every race, ethnicity, gender, sex, etc. So your catagorical statements that blacks can't get good jobs in our society are flat-out wrong.

Plus you're accusing a country that elected a black man of systematically discriminating against blacks. If you're right, we must REALLY suck at this discrimination thing.

Quote:

what the statistics says is that black or immigrants can't find a well paid job or no job at all, that's what the statistics says, that's what the science says.

Oh for the love of....No, Gaetan, that's NOT what the science says. Personally, I think that the social sciences need to do a LOT of house-cleaning before the rest of science will take them seriously. As it stands, most statistics are little better than blind guesses. And even if the stats were completely accurate they are completely worthless when evaluating any individual. If 99% of black people in the USA were slaves and you met a black person you could assume, but you can't know, that they were a slave.

Everything after that is simply nonsense. Religious nonsense, by the way, which is off topic here. It's clear that when you say "Hell" you mean an actual place based on your distortion of the Christian faith.

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

You see, you people ought to live like in hell with no law or rules? If you want to live like in hell you need all kinds of laws and rules, judges, prisons and all you need to live in hell in this world. You see, not only they give the well paid jobs to white but also the minimum wage jobs and the black is unemployed, i call that evil crimes, how do you call that?

I call it looney argument from looney religion. This is why we don't let burger flippers dictate monetary policy. Or any policy.

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by RoboTimbo

I call it looney argument from looney religion. This is why we don't let burger flippers dictate monetary policy. Or any policy.

A burger flipper is a better man or woman to dictate monetary policy because they don't lose 5 cent while bankers lose billions of dollars.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

What you says are lies because they don't appear in statistic and on the street either

Quote:

With the no money system we don't need that because almost all crimes will desappear because the problem, money, won't be use anymore.

It's clear you're here to preach, not learn. This is an educational forum. Why did you even register ?

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

A burger flipper is a better man or woman to dictate monetary policy because they don't lose 5 cent while bankers lose billions of dollars.

That statement is so backwards it's hard to know where to start pointing out how wrong it is.

[Dinwar]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

A burger flipper is a better man or woman to dictate monetary policy because they don't lose 5 cent while bankers lose billions of dollars.

...and your solution is to take away ALL the money of the world, thus removing you from consideration. Thus, we can ignore everything you say about fiscal policy.

[Border Reiver]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

A burger flipper is a better man or woman to dictate monetary policy because they don't lose 5 cent while bankers lose billions of dollars.

No, the burger flipper may be able to manage their own money and may even be able to balance the till at the end of a shift at the "Quaint Scottish Restaurant"^tm, but will be right out of their depth when called on to do a risk assessment on an investment, or to advise clients on how to invest their money for the best returns. Being human they will make mistakes, and simply by virtue of handling more resources, these errors are going to create greater losses.

We don't have burger flippers doing monetary policy for the same reasons that we don't use medical practioners to maintain our sewer system - different skill sets.

[AdMan]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

A burger flipper is a better man or woman to dictate monetary policy because they don't lose 5 cent while bankers lose billions of dollars.

And when I thought you couldn't outdo yourself with ignorant statements, you post this...

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by Border Reiver

No, the burger flipper may be able to manage their own money and may even be able to balance the till at the end of a shift at the "Quaint Scottish Restaurant"^tm, but will be right out of their depth when called on to do a risk assessment on an investment, or to advise clients on how to invest their money for the best returns. Being human they will make mistakes, and simply by virtue of handling more resources, these errors are going to create greater losses.

We don't have burger flippers doing monetary policy for the same reasons that we don't use medical practioners to maintain our sewer system - different skill sets.

Bankers don't get the job because they are competent but because they suck, because they know someone who sucks.

[Joecool]

Originally Posted by Dinwar

Your grammar and spelling are getting worse. That's a troubling indicator.

Gaetan is using language and spelling from the old King James version of the Bible.

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

A burger flipper is a better man or woman to dictate monetary policy because they don't lose 5 cent while bankers lose billions of dollars.

No, they aren't. You illustrate the problem with your naive dreams about a moneyless society. You read about the few dishonest or incompetent bankers and forget about the tens of thousands who keep the system working. You have tunnel vision because you only understand burger flipping economics, and you don't understand that very well.

This thread has become a joke just to see how looney your ideas become. You don't disappoint.

[Joecool]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

A burger flipper is a better man or woman to dictate monetary policy because they don't lose 5 cent while bankers lose billions of dollars.

Are you saying this because you are a burger flipper? A burger flipper is an entry level worker with limited knowledge, skills and abilities. Someone who handles millions of dollars would have to have an advanced understanding of economics. Your inability to grasp this simple concept indicates that you are not capable of coming up with a plan for society.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Bankers don't get the job because they are competent but because they suck, because they know someone who sucks.

More nonsense.

It seems to me you are a perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. You know absolutely nothing about economy, therefore you think that it's really simple and that you're an expect.

[Border Reiver]

Originally Posted by Joecool

Gaetan is using language and spelling from the old King James version of the Bible.

Except those would be recognizable as English to most modern English speakers.

Now if he was using a first edition Canterbury Tales...

[Border Reiver]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Bankers don't get the job because they are competent but because they suck, because they know someone who sucks.

Sounds either like you have no clue how many white collar jobs work, or someone's upset he's not going to be the new Assistant Manager.

[Dinwar]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Bankers don't get the job because they are competent but because they suck, because they know someone who sucks.

We've been over this before. You're not being honest, and it's been explained to you exactly why.

Originally Posted by Border Reiver

Sounds either like you have no clue how many white collar jobs work,

This, I think. My understanding is that Gaetan only considers physical labor to be work. He doesn't consider management, design, engineering, financing, or anything else that doesn't involve manual labor to be work. In fact, as I understand it he views such people as parasites stripping the REAL workers of their income and conspiring to keep the real workers in poverty for exploitation. That such a view is patently rediculous completely escapes him. Ant are perfectly happy living in a bottom-up society, but only because they're willing to sustain astronomical death tolls. Humans, on the other hand, tend to require planning so that we can actually survive. And speaking as someone who's managed people, it's an extremely stressful job. It is MUCH easier to sling a shovel all day--it's a long day, but once you're done you're done. You don't stay up until midnight working out details, then wake up at 4 am to implement them (in a desert....with a headcold....hiking 20 miles a day....One of my roughest weeks on record).

[MIKILLINI]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

You see, you people ought to live like in hell with no law or rules? If you want to live like in hell you need all kinds of laws and rules, judges, prisons and all you need to live in hell in this world. You see, not only they give the well paid jobs to white but also the minimum wage jobs and the black is unemployed, i call that evil crimes, how do you call that?

Answer me this Gaetan: Let's say in your "free" society that one day you decided to go out on a picnic. So you gathered up some food that morning and then left your house to go out on your picnic. Upon returning home later that afternoon, you discover someone is in your house. So when you ask the person what they are doing in your house, the reply back is "This isn't your house, this is my house, go find your own".
What is your next course of action?

[Joecool]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Bankers don't get the job because they are competent but because they suck, because they know someone who sucks.

A friend of mine is a bank executive. He got the job because he's got a finance degree from Stanford. You flip burgers because you don't have those kind of credentials. You babble from one subject to another without actually addressing points, which is ironic because the word "babble" has it's origin from the Bible in the days of King Nebuchadnezzar.

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by MIKILLINI

Answer me this Gaetan: Let's say in your "free" society that one day you decided to go out on a picnic. So you gathered up some food that morning and then left your house to go out on your picnic. Upon returning home later that afternoon, you discover someone is in your house. So when you ask the person what they are doing in your house, the reply back is "This isn't your house, this is my house, go find your own".
What is your next course of action?

There is no reason for people to take the house of others if they have one for free, but if there are fool people, we will have hospital to cure them, police and wiseman or wisewoman to help.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

There is no reason for people to take the house of others if they have one for free.

And no house if no one builds them.