Christians trying to scare country into prayer

AdMan · 5th April 2011, 12:32 PM

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

I'd rather celebrate Cinco de Mayo.

Halfcentaur · 5th April 2011, 12:40 PM

"You'd better beg me not to hit you again!"
Interesting how similar the posture of begging looks to praying, eh?

cgordon · 5th April 2011, 12:48 PM

Oh good grief.

Aepervius · 5th April 2011, 01:04 PM

Cool. Looks like the new band annoounce for the next roland emmerich catastrophe film "the day the wrath of the all loving god destroyed earth".

Sooooo, if you want to avoid the very wrathful and very loving god (he will send you in hell but he loves you) you will have to beg:
(insert kinky picture of a Jesus Christ in leather and with a nine-tailed cat, whipping the believer) BEG , BEG ! On your knee you WORM !

After a short advertising pause we will discuss how to properly whip one self in the back with barbed wire, how to properly beg on knee, and how to grovel for pity and not be beaten more. Also useful for when other smaller bully want to beat you.

Halfcentaur · 5th April 2011, 01:09 PM

When you think about it, all prayer is essentially begging. What's the difference between a husband who beats you and tortures you for hours out of an emotional and behavioral disorder that actually does love you some of the time when he's not out of control, and this deity of the bible so many believe in?

He only hits you when you disrespect him and do not obey him, but he truly does love you and care about you when you have not drawn his ire upon ye.

geni · 5th April 2011, 01:17 PM

So I'm meant to be worried by stormclouds?

AdMan · 5th April 2011, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by geni

So I'm meant to be worried by stormclouds?

They're a sign from God that he's getting ready to have a hissy fit, so get on your knees.

Lowpro · 5th April 2011, 01:27 PM

Now THAT'S a budget!

Somthing Witty · 5th April 2011, 03:32 PM

Things I learned while watching that video:

1. The prayers of rural folks will save Washington DC and San Francisco from the wrath of god.

2. Some people have no idea how to hold a Wii controller.

ehcks · 5th April 2011, 03:37 PM

Failing to pray will lead to the clouds catching on fire? I think water vapor catching fire could be plausible evidence for a god. Why don't they want that?

Tatyana · 5th April 2011, 03:42 PM

Is that an ad on the telly?

welshdean · 5th April 2011, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by AdMan

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

I'd rather celebrate Cinco de Mayo.

It's one day to late mate. Star Wars Day is the better of the three!

With regards to the ad and it's main question: What if we didn't pray? That sounds like a good basis for an experiment.
Nobody prays for a year, see if we can get big 'ol storm clouds over the Severn Bridge.

maggot9779 · 5th April 2011, 04:25 PM

That was hilarious.

steve s · 5th April 2011, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by welshdean

What if we didn't pray?

Everything would continue on as it always does. They have these prayer days every year and nothing changes. It's no different whether you pray or not.

The vid says "He created the heavens." And apparently he's going to unleash them on us if we don't pray. Like others have said, it's the abusive husband syndrome.

Steve S

AdMan · 5th April 2011, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by steve s

The vid says "He created the heavens." And apparently he's going to unleash them on us if we don't pray. Like others have said, it's the abusive husband syndrome.

Yup, or the "I created you and I am all-powerful so you better kneel and cower before me and beg for my mercy or I will smite you" syndrome.

It's so appealing, isn't it?

JoeyDonuts · 5th April 2011, 09:21 PM

Can we please focus on the nice bits rather than the smoting?

ncdrawl · 5th April 2011, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by AdMan

Yup, or the "I created you and I am all-powerful so you better kneel and cower before me and beg for my mercy or I will smite you" syndrome.

It's so appealing, isn't it?

I guess you see what you want to see. Whats that thing..Cherry picking?

There is a lot of beauty in the Bible. In all religious traditions.

You attack theists(I am proud to be one!) but you seem to have a limited understanding. It is easy to attack these idiots like phelps and the tea party, the televangelical jackasses.

spirituality is a beautiful thing. succumbing to a greater meaning is wonderful.

AdMan · 5th April 2011, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by ncdrawl

I guess you see what you want to see. Whats that thing..Cherry picking?

There is a lot of beauty in the Bible. In all religious traditions.

You attack theists(I am proud to be one!) but you seem to have a limited understanding. It is easy to attack these idiots like phelps and the tea party, the televangelical jackasses.

I am making fun of an utterly stupid attempt to make me pray. You think this video isn't stupid? Make your case for it.

If you want to look for what's wrong in the Bible, you won't find it hard to find.

Originally Posted by ncdrawl

spirituality is a beautiful thing. succumbing to a greater meaning is wonderful.

I don't find succumbing to anything to be beautiful or wonderful. Sorry.

steve s · 5th April 2011, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by ncdrawl

I guess you see what you want to see. Whats that thing..Cherry picking?

I saw a bunch of ominous clouds threatening people until they prayed and the sun came out. How is that cherry-picking? The entire video consisted of that.

Quote:

There is a lot of beauty in the Bible.

So why didn't they focus on that instead of relying on fear?

Quote:

spirituality is a beautiful thing. succumbing to a greater meaning is wonderful.

What do you think of the new-agers who describe themselves as spiritual but not religious? Do you think they're wonderful?

Steve S

Trent Wray · 5th April 2011, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by AdMan

I don't find succumbing to anything to be beautiful or wonderful. Sorry.

Not a single thing? Not even a desire or a want for something?

Joey McGee · 5th April 2011, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by ncdrawl

I guess you see what you want to see. Whats that thing..Cherry picking?

There is a lot of beauty in the Bible. In all religious traditions.

You attack theists(I am proud to be one!) but you seem to have a limited understanding. It is easy to attack these idiots like phelps and the tea party, the televangelical jackasses.

spirituality is a beautiful thing. succumbing to a greater meaning is wonderful.

How can you not see this as a blatant attempt to scare people. How can you seriously think that if God existed he would demand you pray to him without him showing himself to you?

You should know that almost every theist makes the same argument. "Oh those are the crazy Christians! I'm the sophisticated kind!" It doesn't matter how realist or sophisticated you are, I've heard every argument ever laid out for Christianity and so have a lot of people here. Slightly naive to assume that people who disagree with you just don't know about you "real xtians"

How many good debates have you devoured in your time?

Things that are real are beautiful, making good things happen in the world is beautiful, finding things that work and make you and other people happy are beautiful things. Spirituality is just a mental state that represents these real things. People invent ideas that make them feel good and then abandon themselves to those ideas. So, some people like reality others like fantasy.

ncdrawl · 5th April 2011, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by AdMan

I don't find succumbing to anything to be beautiful or wonderful. Sorry.

then why are you succumbing to arrogance?

are you suffering for your art?

ncdrawl · 5th April 2011, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by Joey McGee

.

apparently you missed it the first time, .so I'll say it again.

I am not a Christian. I do love and respect a great many of them though.

and..as I said, it is easy to find the bad. It is all about perspective..what you want to see.

it is called "expectation bias".

Joey McGee · 5th April 2011, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by ncdrawl

apparently you missed it the first time, .so I'll say it again.

I am not a Christian. I do love and respect a great many of them though.

and..as I said, it is easy to find the bad. It is all about perspective..what you want to see.

it is called "expectation bias".

You never said you weren't a Christian! Nice try though, real slick. You did say that you're a theist, and your first comment here was questioning criticism of a central tenet of the faith, so you're at least an apologist for it.

It's not about perspective or what you want to see, it's about the facts, if you actually cared about what those things are, you wouldn't say stuff like that.

Corsair 115 · 5th April 2011, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by AdMan

They're a sign from God that he's getting ready to have a hissy fit, so get on your knees.

Kneel before Zod!

Whoops, sorry, that should be: Kneel before God!

Aepervius · 5th April 2011, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by AdMan

They're a sign from God that he's getting ready to have a hissy fit, so get on your knees.

Ha so ! Now I understand why so many people fall on their knee and pray around september.

It is a seasonal god.

Aepervius · 5th April 2011, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by ncdrawl

I guess you see what you want to see. Whats that thing..Cherry picking?

There is a lot of beauty in the Bible. In all religious traditions.

You attack theists(I am proud to be one!) but you seem to have a limited understanding. It is easy to attack these idiots like phelps and the tea party, the televangelical jackasses.

spirituality is a beautiful thing. succumbing to a greater meaning is wonderful.

Originally Posted by ncdrawl

apparently you missed it the first time, .so I'll say it again.

I am not a Christian. I do love and respect a great many of them though.

and..as I said, it is easy to find the bad. It is all about perspective..what you want to see.

it is called "expectation bias".

You haven't demonstrated that you have a better understanding of christianity than we do. ACtually by pretending that there is a lot of beauty in the bible you rather demonstrated that you have not a very good understanding of it.

Remember that study on people religion ? People of other religion/denomination had a poor understanding of other religion, except atheist/agnostic/anti-theist/whatever in average had a better understanding of other religion than theist toward other religion. In other word an Moslem understanding of christianity would be in average lower than an atheist understanding of Christianity.

So yeah. I would say that we have evidence that in average a theist non christian (you) would have a lesser understanding of christianity than the atheist around here.

You are free to demonstrate your understanding of Christianity rather than pretend we don't understand the bible. Up to now you haven't demonstrated didly squat.

And yes, showing threatening cloud and show people which look more frightened than delighted , certainly don't play on the beauty of the bible, but rather on the wrathful god which send you to hell and destroy cities, countries, and flood the rest (he loves you, but will send you to hell to suffer for eternity. Sigh. What a stupid *** ******** ***** ***).

Rincewind · 5th April 2011, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by Halfcentaur

When you think about it, all prayer is essentially begging. What's the difference between a husband who beats you and tortures you for hours out of an emotional and behavioral disorder that actually does love you some of the time when he's not out of control, and this deity of the bible so many believe in?

He only hits you when you disrespect him and do not obey him, but he truly does love you and care about you when you have not drawn his ire upon ye.

Thank you for the explanation.

So God - the role model for Christian morality - is an abusive husband/father.

OK - Gotcha...

Foster Zygote · 6th April 2011, 05:06 AM

Originally Posted by ncdrawl

There is a lot of beauty in the Bible. In all religious traditions.

Exodus 21:7 When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.

Exodus 21:20-21 When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property.

Exodus 32:25-29 When Moses saw that the people were running wild (for Aaron had let them run wild, to the derision of their enemies), then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, ‘Who is on the Lord’s side? Come to me!’ And all the sons of Levi gathered around him. He said to them, ‘Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, “Put your sword on your side, each of you! Go back and forth from gate to gate throughout the camp, and each of you kill your brother, your friend, and your neighbour.” ’ The sons of Levi did as Moses commanded, and about three thousand of the people fell on that day. Moses said, ‘Today you have ordained yourselves for the service of the Lord, each one at the cost of a son or a brother, and so have brought a blessing on yourselves this day.’

Joshua 10:28-43 Joshua took Makkedah on that day, and struck it and its king with the edge of the sword; he utterly destroyed every person in it; he left no one remaining. And he did to the king of Makkedah as he had done to the king of Jericho.

29 Then Joshua passed on from Makkedah, and all Israel with him, to Libnah, and fought against Libnah. 30The Lord gave it also and its king into the hand of Israel; and he struck it with the edge of the sword, and every person in it; he left no one remaining in it; and he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho.

31 Next Joshua passed on from Libnah, and all Israel with him, to Lachish, and laid siege to it, and assaulted it. 32The Lord gave Lachish into the hand of Israel, and he took it on the second day, and struck it with the edge of the sword, and every person in it, as he had done to Libnah.

33 Then King Horam of Gezer came up to help Lachish; and Joshua struck him and his people, leaving him no survivors.

34 From Lachish Joshua passed on with all Israel to Eglon; and they laid siege to it, and assaulted it; 35and they took it that day, and struck it with the edge of the sword; and every person in it he utterly destroyed that day, as he had done to Lachish.

36 Then Joshua went up with all Israel from Eglon to Hebron; they assaulted it, 37and took it, and struck it with the edge of the sword, and its king and its towns, and every person in it; he left no one remaining, just as he had done to Eglon, and utterly destroyed it with every person in it.

38 Then Joshua, with all Israel, turned back to Debir and assaulted it, 39and he took it with its king and all its towns; they struck them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed every person in it; he left no one remaining, just as he had done to Hebron, and, as he had done to Libnah and its king, so he did to Debir and its king.

40 So Joshua defeated the whole land, the hill country and the Negeb and the lowland and the slopes, and all their kings; he left no one remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded. 41And Joshua defeated them from Kadesh-barnea to Gaza, and all the country of Goshen, as far as Gibeon. 42Joshua took all these kings and their land at one time, because the Lord God of Israel fought for Israel. 43Then Joshua returned, and all Israel with him, to the camp at Gilgal.

There's a lot of horror in the Bible, too.

Pup · 6th April 2011, 05:44 AM

I had to watch it without sound, but it seemed pretty clear anyway.

It reminded me of that joke where God sends the boats and the helicopter.

I kept thinking: storm cellar! get out of that rickety building and into the storm cellar! But they just stayed there praying.

All it needs is a final shot of the church being blown away and then the conversation in heaven with God, and it would be a great Youtube version of that joke.

CORed · 6th April 2011, 05:46 AM

So, if we don't pray, it's going to rain? We need rain where I live, so I'll keep on not praying.

LarianLeQuella · 6th April 2011, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

There's a lot of horror in the Bible, too.

I think if you parse the bible, the cruelty and injustice outweights the nice stuff by a factor of about 6 to 1... Not to mention the stupidity and downright dumb stuff...

Resume · 6th April 2011, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by ncdrawl

spirituality is a beautiful thing. succumbing to a greater meaning is wonderful.

What greater thing?

Foster Zygote · 6th April 2011, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by LarianLeQuella

I think if you parse the bible, the cruelty and injustice outweights the nice stuff by a factor of about 6 to 1... Not to mention the stupidity and downright dumb stuff...

If we remove all that is cruel and/or irrelevant to modern life from the Bible, it would certainly be much, much thinner.

Foster Zygote · 6th April 2011, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by Resume

What greater thing?

Ncdrawl seems to be succumbing to the fallacy that without belief in gods or other supernatural entities, one cannot find any meaning or beauty in the universe.

"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"
Douglas Adams

Belz... · 6th April 2011, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by AdMan

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

I'd rather celebrate Cinco de Mayo.

So if we don't pray there will be flashes or orange lights in the sky ? Sounds worth the try.

Belz... · 6th April 2011, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by Aepervius

Cool. Looks like the new band annoounce for the next roland emmerich catastrophe film "the day the wrath of the all loving god destroyed earth".

Sooooo, if you want to avoid the very wrathful and very loving god (he will send you in hell but he loves you) you will have to beg:
(insert kinky picture of a Jesus Christ in leather and with a nine-tailed cat, whipping the believer) BEG , BEG ! On your knee you WORM !

After a short advertising pause we will discuss how to properly whip one self in the back with barbed wire, how to properly beg on knee, and how to grovel for pity and not be beaten more. Also useful for when other smaller bully want to beat you.

And the video has the balls to say "there is hope". Hope that god will stop sending you calamities. What a douchebag.

Belz... · 6th April 2011, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by ncdrawl

There is a lot of beauty in the Bible. In all religious traditions.

Such as ?

Quote:

spirituality is a beautiful thing. succumbing to a greater meaning is wonderful.

Believing in silly things is not wonderful.

Schrodinger's Cat · 6th April 2011, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by ncdrawl

I guess you see what you want to see. Whats that thing..Cherry picking?

There is a lot of beauty in the Bible. In all religious traditions.

You attack theists(I am proud to be one!) but you seem to have a limited understanding. It is easy to attack these idiots like phelps and the tea party, the televangelical jackasses.

spirituality is a beautiful thing. succumbing to a greater meaning is wonderful.

This thread isn't about all theists, it's about a particularly idiotic video made by one particular group of theists. Lose the persecution complex. It IS a stupid, fear mongering video based on a stupid, fear mongering ideology that is not representative of all theists, or even all Christians. I used to be a deeply religious Christian and even then I found stuff this heavy handed just as ridiculous as I do now.

You shouldn't assume that lack of religious beliefs results from "arrogance" or a "lack of understanding." I was raised Christian, went to Christian school, and later taught Sunday school. Most non religious JREFers I have seen write on the issue were raised in some faith or another. There are several JREF members who actually used to be Christian preachers. Of the non religious people I know in real life (who may be atheist, agnostic, or theists/deists/pantheists who just don't subscribe to a particular ideology), ALL of them were raised in some religious tradition. We don't lack faith due to a "lack of understanding." Actually, it was just the opposite. The more I studied comparative religious history, the more I realized my own beliefs were just man made myths that were utterly contradicted by archaeological, historical, and scientific evidence. What's more, they weren't even very original myths. All the biggest parts of Christianity - the fall of man, Moses, the virgin birth, the resurrected savior - these were all just already existing stories co-opted from earlier pagan traditions.

I was raised in a very liberal, tolerant church with wonderful priests. I enjoyed my faith, I wanted to believe in it, very badly. If I could have forced myself to keep believing, I would have. But an honest examination of the claims of my faith left me simply unable to believe it any longer, however much I wanted to.

I agree with you that I do personally find beauty in spirituality, I found it in my own beliefs once, even if I do not share that spirituality any more. But there's plenty of other places to find beauty. I'm into hiking and rock climbing these days, and I'll tell you what, I find even more peace, tranquility, and wonder at the top of a high peak than I ever did in prayer. And as an added bonus, my hikes don't come with the anxiety that I perhaps hadn't hiked the mountain using the particular trail the mountain wanted me to use, thus incurring its wrath and judgment.

Belz... · 6th April 2011, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by ncdrawl

then why are you succumbing to arrogance?

Says the ones who thinks a perfect cosmic being made them in his image.

5th April 2011, 12:40 PM	#2
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,952	"You'd better beg me not to hit you again!" Interesting how similar the posture of begging looks to praying, eh?
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,952

5th April 2011, 12:48 PM	#3
cgordon Muse Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 900	Oh good grief.
	__________________ "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Benjamin Franklin

5th April 2011, 01:04 PM	#4
Aepervius Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bierland. I mean , germany. Posts: 7,756	Cool. Looks like the new band annoounce for the next roland emmerich catastrophe film "the day the wrath of the all loving god destroyed earth". Sooooo, if you want to avoid the very wrathful and very loving god (he will send you in hell but he loves you) you will have to beg: (insert kinky picture of a Jesus Christ in leather and with a nine-tailed cat, whipping the believer) BEG , BEG ! On your knee you WORM ! After a short advertising pause we will discuss how to properly whip one self in the back with barbed wire, how to properly beg on knee, and how to grovel for pity and not be beaten more. Also useful for when other smaller bully want to beat you.
	__________________ Omnes Blessant Ultima necat "I want, and this is my last and most dear wish, I want that the last of the king be strangled with the guts of the last priest" (Jean Meslier / 1664-1729 / Testament) A very early french atheist, a catholic priest in life. Last edited by Aepervius; 5th April 2011 at 01:05 PM.

5th April 2011, 01:09 PM	#5
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,952	When you think about it, all prayer is essentially begging. What's the difference between a husband who beats you and tortures you for hours out of an emotional and behavioral disorder that actually does love you some of the time when he's not out of control, and this deity of the bible so many believe in? He only hits you when you disrespect him and do not obey him, but he truly does love you and care about you when you have not drawn his ire upon ye.
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,952

5th April 2011, 01:21 PM	#7
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,191	Originally Posted by geni So I'm meant to be worried by stormclouds? They're a sign from God that he's getting ready to have a hissy fit, so get on your knees.
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,191	__________________ It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

5th April 2011, 01:17 PM	#6
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,570	So I'm meant to be worried by stormclouds?

5th April 2011, 01:27 PM	#8
Lowpro Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 4,523	Now THAT'S a budget!
	__________________ "If I actually believed that Jesus was coming to end the world in 2050, I'd be preparing by stocking up on timber and nails" - PZ Myers

5th April 2011, 03:32 PM	#9
Somthing Witty Scholar Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 63	Things I learned while watching that video: 1. The prayers of rural folks will save Washington DC and San Francisco from the wrath of god. 2. Some people have no idea how to hold a Wii controller.

5th April 2011, 03:37 PM	#10
ehcks Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,693	Failing to pray will lead to the clouds catching on fire? I think water vapor catching fire could be plausible evidence for a god. Why don't they want that?
ehcks Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,693

5th April 2011, 03:42 PM	#11
Tatyana Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Experiment 1: Flame and Flesh Posts: 3,431	Is that an ad on the telly?

5th April 2011, 04:25 PM	#13
maggot9779 Thinker Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 132	That was hilarious.
maggot9779 Thinker Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 132

5th April 2011, 08:47 PM	#14
steve s Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,663	Originally Posted by welshdean What if we didn't pray? Everything would continue on as it always does. They have these prayer days every year and nothing changes. It's no different whether you pray or not. The vid says "He created the heavens." And apparently he's going to unleash them on us if we don't pray. Like others have said, it's the abusive husband syndrome. Steve S
steve s Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,663	__________________ "Nature abhors a moron." -- H. L. Mencken

5th April 2011, 09:12 PM	#15
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,191	Originally Posted by steve s The vid says "He created the heavens." And apparently he's going to unleash them on us if we don't pray. Like others have said, it's the abusive husband syndrome. Yup, or the "I created you and I am all-powerful so you better kneel and cower before me and beg for my mercy or I will smite you" syndrome. It's so appealing, isn't it?
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,191	__________________ It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

5th April 2011, 09:21 PM	#16
JoeyDonuts Frequencies Not Known To Normals Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 10,636	Can we please focus on the nice bits rather than the smoting?
	__________________ _{EXIT STAGE LEFT! EXIT STAGE RIGHT! THERE IS NO PLACE TO RUN; ALL THE FUSES IN THE EXIT SIGNS HAVE BEEN BURNED OUT!}

5th April 2011, 09:46 PM	#17
ncdrawl Scholar Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 80	Originally Posted by AdMan Yup, or the "I created you and I am all-powerful so you better kneel and cower before me and beg for my mercy or I will smite you" syndrome. It's so appealing, isn't it? I guess you see what you want to see. Whats that thing..Cherry picking? There is a lot of beauty in the Bible. In all religious traditions. You attack theists(I am proud to be one!) but you seem to have a limited understanding. It is easy to attack these idiots like phelps and the tea party, the televangelical jackasses. spirituality is a beautiful thing. succumbing to a greater meaning is wonderful.
ncdrawl Scholar Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 80

5th April 2011, 09:50 PM	#18
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,191	Originally Posted by ncdrawl I guess you see what you want to see. Whats that thing..Cherry picking? There is a lot of beauty in the Bible. In all religious traditions. You attack theists(I am proud to be one!) but you seem to have a limited understanding. It is easy to attack these idiots like phelps and the tea party, the televangelical jackasses. I am making fun of an utterly stupid attempt to make me pray. You think this video isn't stupid? Make your case for it. If you want to look for what's wrong in the Bible, you won't find it hard to find. Originally Posted by ncdrawl spirituality is a beautiful thing. succumbing to a greater meaning is wonderful. I don't find succumbing to anything to be beautiful or wonderful. Sorry.
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,191	__________________ It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

5th April 2011, 10:04 PM	#19
steve s Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,663	Originally Posted by ncdrawl I guess you see what you want to see. Whats that thing..Cherry picking? I saw a bunch of ominous clouds threatening people until they prayed and the sun came out. How is that cherry-picking? The entire video consisted of that. Quote: There is a lot of beauty in the Bible. So why didn't they focus on that instead of relying on fear? Quote: spirituality is a beautiful thing. succumbing to a greater meaning is wonderful. What do you think of the new-agers who describe themselves as spiritual but not religious? Do you think they're wonderful? Steve S
steve s Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,663	__________________ "Nature abhors a moron." -- H. L. Mencken

5th April 2011, 10:05 PM	#20
Trent Wray I Will Not Impregnate You Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 4,562	Originally Posted by AdMan I don't find succumbing to anything to be beautiful or wonderful. Sorry. Not a single thing? Not even a desire or a want for something?

5th April 2011, 10:12 PM	#21
Joey McGee Transcendental Naturalist Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,133	Originally Posted by ncdrawl I guess you see what you want to see. Whats that thing..Cherry picking? There is a lot of beauty in the Bible. In all religious traditions. You attack theists(I am proud to be one!) but you seem to have a limited understanding. It is easy to attack these idiots like phelps and the tea party, the televangelical jackasses. spirituality is a beautiful thing. succumbing to a greater meaning is wonderful. How can you not see this as a blatant attempt to scare people. How can you seriously think that if God existed he would demand you pray to him without him showing himself to you? You should know that almost every theist makes the same argument. "Oh those are the crazy Christians! I'm the sophisticated kind!" It doesn't matter how realist or sophisticated you are, I've heard every argument ever laid out for Christianity and so have a lot of people here. Slightly naive to assume that people who disagree with you just don't know about you "real xtians" How many good debates have you devoured in your time? Things that are real are beautiful, making good things happen in the world is beautiful, finding things that work and make you and other people happy are beautiful things. Spirituality is just a mental state that represents these real things. People invent ideas that make them feel good and then abandon themselves to those ideas. So, some people like reality others like fantasy.

5th April 2011, 10:13 PM	#22
ncdrawl Scholar Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 80	Originally Posted by AdMan I don't find succumbing to anything to be beautiful or wonderful. Sorry. then why are you succumbing to arrogance? are you suffering for your art?
ncdrawl Scholar Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 80

5th April 2011, 10:17 PM	#23
ncdrawl Scholar Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 80	Originally Posted by Joey McGee . apparently you missed it the first time, .so I'll say it again. I am not a Christian. I do love and respect a great many of them though. and..as I said, it is easy to find the bad. It is all about perspective..what you want to see. it is called "expectation bias".
ncdrawl Scholar Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 80

5th April 2011, 10:21 PM	#24
Joey McGee Transcendental Naturalist Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,133	Originally Posted by ncdrawl apparently you missed it the first time, .so I'll say it again. I am not a Christian. I do love and respect a great many of them though. and..as I said, it is easy to find the bad. It is all about perspective..what you want to see. it is called "expectation bias". You never said you weren't a Christian! Nice try though, real slick. You did say that you're a theist, and your first comment here was questioning criticism of a central tenet of the faith, so you're at least an apologist for it. It's not about perspective or what you want to see, it's about the facts, if you actually cared about what those things are, you wouldn't say stuff like that.
	Last edited by Joey McGee; 5th April 2011 at 10:23 PM.

5th April 2011, 10:30 PM	#25
Corsair 115 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tranquility Base Posts: 8,576	Originally Posted by AdMan They're a sign from God that he's getting ready to have a hissy fit, so get on your knees. Kneel before Zod! Whoops, sorry, that should be: Kneel before God!
	__________________ "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our abilities and skills, because that challenge is one we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win."

5th April 2011, 11:32 PM	#26
Aepervius Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bierland. I mean , germany. Posts: 7,756	Originally Posted by AdMan They're a sign from God that he's getting ready to have a hissy fit, so get on your knees. Ha so ! Now I understand why so many people fall on their knee and pray around september. It is a seasonal god.
	__________________ Omnes Blessant Ultima necat "I want, and this is my last and most dear wish, I want that the last of the king be strangled with the guts of the last priest" (Jean Meslier / 1664-1729 / Testament) A very early french atheist, a catholic priest in life.

5th April 2011, 11:41 PM	#27
Aepervius Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bierland. I mean , germany. Posts: 7,756	Originally Posted by ncdrawl I guess you see what you want to see. Whats that thing..Cherry picking? There is a lot of beauty in the Bible. In all religious traditions. You attack theists(I am proud to be one!) but you seem to have a limited understanding. It is easy to attack these idiots like phelps and the tea party, the televangelical jackasses. spirituality is a beautiful thing. succumbing to a greater meaning is wonderful. Originally Posted by ncdrawl apparently you missed it the first time, .so I'll say it again. I am not a Christian. I do love and respect a great many of them though. and..as I said, it is easy to find the bad. It is all about perspective..what you want to see. it is called "expectation bias". You haven't demonstrated that you have a better understanding of christianity than we do. ACtually by pretending that there is a lot of beauty in the bible you rather demonstrated that you have not a very good understanding of it. Remember that study on people religion ? People of other religion/denomination had a poor understanding of other religion, except atheist/agnostic/anti-theist/whatever in average had a better understanding of other religion than theist toward other religion. In other word an Moslem understanding of christianity would be in average lower than an atheist understanding of Christianity. So yeah. I would say that we have evidence that in average a theist non christian (you) would have a lesser understanding of christianity than the atheist around here. You are free to demonstrate your understanding of Christianity rather than pretend we don't understand the bible. Up to now you haven't demonstrated didly squat. And yes, showing threatening cloud and show people which look more frightened than delighted , certainly don't play on the beauty of the bible, but rather on the wrathful god which send you to hell and destroy cities, countries, and flood the rest (he loves you, but will send you to hell to suffer for eternity. Sigh. What a stupid * **** * *).
	__________________ Omnes Blessant Ultima necat "I want, and this is my last and most dear wish, I want that the last of the king be strangled with the guts of the last priest" (Jean Meslier / 1664-1729 / Testament) A very early french atheist, a catholic priest in life. Last edited by Aepervius; 5th April 2011 at 11:43 PM.

5th April 2011, 11:53 PM	#28
Rincewind Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,162	Originally Posted by Halfcentaur When you think about it, all prayer is essentially begging. What's the difference between a husband who beats you and tortures you for hours out of an emotional and behavioral disorder that actually does love you some of the time when he's not out of control, and this deity of the bible so many believe in? He only hits you when you disrespect him and do not obey him, but he truly does love you and care about you when you have not drawn his ire upon ye. Thank you for the explanation. So God - the role model for Christian morality - is an abusive husband/father. OK - Gotcha...

6th April 2011, 05:06 AM	#29
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,396	Originally Posted by ncdrawl There is a lot of beauty in the Bible. In all religious traditions. Exodus 21:7 When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. Exodus 21:20-21 When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property. Exodus 32:25-29 When Moses saw that the people were running wild (for Aaron had let them run wild, to the derision of their enemies), then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, ‘Who is on the Lord’s side? Come to me!’ And all the sons of Levi gathered around him. He said to them, ‘Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, “Put your sword on your side, each of you! Go back and forth from gate to gate throughout the camp, and each of you kill your brother, your friend, and your neighbour.” ’ The sons of Levi did as Moses commanded, and about three thousand of the people fell on that day. Moses said, ‘Today you have ordained yourselves for the service of the Lord, each one at the cost of a son or a brother, and so have brought a blessing on yourselves this day.’ Joshua 10:28-43 Joshua took Makkedah on that day, and struck it and its king with the edge of the sword; he utterly destroyed every person in it; he left no one remaining. And he did to the king of Makkedah as he had done to the king of Jericho. 29 Then Joshua passed on from Makkedah, and all Israel with him, to Libnah, and fought against Libnah. 30The Lord gave it also and its king into the hand of Israel; and he struck it with the edge of the sword, and every person in it; he left no one remaining in it; and he did to its king as he had done to the king of Jericho. 31 Next Joshua passed on from Libnah, and all Israel with him, to Lachish, and laid siege to it, and assaulted it. 32The Lord gave Lachish into the hand of Israel, and he took it on the second day, and struck it with the edge of the sword, and every person in it, as he had done to Libnah. 33 Then King Horam of Gezer came up to help Lachish; and Joshua struck him and his people, leaving him no survivors. 34 From Lachish Joshua passed on with all Israel to Eglon; and they laid siege to it, and assaulted it; 35and they took it that day, and struck it with the edge of the sword; and every person in it he utterly destroyed that day, as he had done to Lachish. 36 Then Joshua went up with all Israel from Eglon to Hebron; they assaulted it, 37and took it, and struck it with the edge of the sword, and its king and its towns, and every person in it; he left no one remaining, just as he had done to Eglon, and utterly destroyed it with every person in it. 38 Then Joshua, with all Israel, turned back to Debir and assaulted it, 39and he took it with its king and all its towns; they struck them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed every person in it; he left no one remaining, just as he had done to Hebron, and, as he had done to Libnah and its king, so he did to Debir and its king. 40 So Joshua defeated the whole land, the hill country and the Negeb and the lowland and the slopes, and all their kings; he left no one remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded. 41And Joshua defeated them from Kadesh-barnea to Gaza, and all the country of Goshen, as far as Gibeon. 42Joshua took all these kings and their land at one time, because the Lord God of Israel fought for Israel. 43Then Joshua returned, and all Israel with him, to the camp at Gilgal. There's a lot of horror in the Bible, too.
	__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it.

6th April 2011, 05:44 AM	#30
Pup Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3,591	I had to watch it without sound, but it seemed pretty clear anyway. It reminded me of that joke where God sends the boats and the helicopter. I kept thinking: storm cellar! get out of that rickety building and into the storm cellar! But they just stayed there praying. All it needs is a final shot of the church being blown away and then the conversation in heaven with God, and it would be a great Youtube version of that joke.
Pup Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3,591

6th April 2011, 05:46 AM	#31
CORed Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,293	So, if we don't pray, it's going to rain? We need rain where I live, so I'll keep on not praying.
CORed Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,293

6th April 2011, 06:16 AM	#32
LarianLeQuella Elf Wino Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: 3rd Rock from the Sun Posts: 1,995	Originally Posted by Foster Zygote There's a lot of horror in the Bible, too. I think if you parse the bible, the cruelty and injustice outweights the nice stuff by a factor of about 6 to 1... Not to mention the stupidity and downright dumb stuff...
	__________________ My crappy blog that no one should be forced to read. Ever... But I like traffic and comments, so have at it if you please. Larian LeQuella Armyn ab Treanid

6th April 2011, 06:46 AM	#33
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,024	Originally Posted by ncdrawl spirituality is a beautiful thing. succumbing to a greater meaning is wonderful. What greater thing?
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,024

6th April 2011, 07:05 AM	#34
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,396	Originally Posted by LarianLeQuella I think if you parse the bible, the cruelty and injustice outweights the nice stuff by a factor of about 6 to 1... Not to mention the stupidity and downright dumb stuff... If we remove all that is cruel and/or irrelevant to modern life from the Bible, it would certainly be much, much thinner.
	__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it.

6th April 2011, 07:08 AM	#35
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,396	Originally Posted by Resume What greater thing? Ncdrawl seems to be succumbing to the fallacy that without belief in gods or other supernatural entities, one cannot find any meaning or beauty in the universe. "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" Douglas Adams
	__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it.

6th April 2011, 07:14 AM	#37
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details... Posts: 28,519	Originally Posted by Aepervius Cool. Looks like the new band annoounce for the next roland emmerich catastrophe film "the day the wrath of the all loving god destroyed earth". Sooooo, if you want to avoid the very wrathful and very loving god (he will send you in hell but he loves you) you will have to beg: (insert kinky picture of a Jesus Christ in leather and with a nine-tailed cat, whipping the believer) BEG , BEG ! On your knee you WORM ! After a short advertising pause we will discuss how to properly whip one self in the back with barbed wire, how to properly beg on knee, and how to grovel for pity and not be beaten more. Also useful for when other smaller bully want to beat you. And the video has the balls to say "there is hope". Hope that god will stop sending you calamities. What a douchebag.
	__________________ The Onmyouza Theatre, An unofficial international fanclub forum dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za: "In the interests of time and space, it is not unreasonable to cite one point at a time. Citing 30 is the equivalent of citing none. Obviously." - Robert Prey "Physical evidence must be observed and interpreted by witnesses which makes it subjective and subject to mistakes and to fraud." - Robert Prey

6th April 2011, 07:19 AM	#38
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details... Posts: 28,519	Originally Posted by ncdrawl There is a lot of beauty in the Bible. In all religious traditions. Such as ? Quote: spirituality is a beautiful thing. succumbing to a greater meaning is wonderful. Believing in silly things is not wonderful.
	__________________ The Onmyouza Theatre, An unofficial international fanclub forum dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za: "In the interests of time and space, it is not unreasonable to cite one point at a time. Citing 30 is the equivalent of citing none. Obviously." - Robert Prey "Physical evidence must be observed and interpreted by witnesses which makes it subjective and subject to mistakes and to fraud." - Robert Prey