Scorpion stings

arcticpenguin · 21st January 2003, 11:55 AM

Scorpions can set their stings on either of two settings, stun or kill. The 'stun' setting mostly uses potassium salts and cause a lot of pain. The 'kill' setting uses protein toxins.

Skeptoid · 21st January 2003, 01:00 PM

Very interesting. You learn something new every day. Thanks, AP.

Jon_in_london · 22nd January 2003, 01:16 AM

I 0nce got stung by a scorpion, right next to my bollocks! I woke up with this pain in my crotch and couldnt find anything except a red patch so went back to sleep. An hour or so later I woke up and found a scorpion crawling over my shorts

It was sore but not really worse than say a hornet? so maybe I only got the stun(g).

I have had many other meeting with scorpions but that the only time I got stung.

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos · 22nd January 2003, 12:45 PM

I believe it's the case that smaller scorpions are more toxic, larger ones less.

~~ Paul

22nd January 2003, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
I believe it's the case that smaller scorpions are more toxic, larger ones less.

I recall hearing something similar. What I heard was that younger scorpions (smaller than older ones, perhaps??) were more dangerous than older ones because they were less able to control the dose of toxin delivered. I have no idea where I heard this, or how one can readily determine the age of a scorpion, but it is interesting to learn that there may be a small grain of truth to it.

Mr. Turquoise

Hellbound · 22nd January 2003, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Turquoise

I recall hearing something similar. What I heard was that younger scorpions (smaller than older ones, perhaps??) were more dangerous than older ones because they were less able to control the dose of toxin delivered. I have no idea where I heard this, or how one can readily determine the age of a scorpion, but it is interesting to learn that there may be a small grain of truth to it.

Mr. Turquoise

Well, for size in general (over all of Class SCORPIONIDA), this is not true.

Some of the most deadly species in North America grow 6" or longer (w/o tail). Conversely, we have scorpions in my area that rarely get over an inch or two, and are not very poisonous.

Now, as to the scorpions age (within a single species), there might be something to it (I know this is the case for many posionous snakes); but unless you know the species the size doesn't really tell you much.

Found a FAQ site that gives a lot of good info, but doesn't specifically mention this idea:

http://wrbu.si.edu/www/stockwell/faq/sting.html

I'll see if I can find anything else.

23rd January 2003, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
I 0nce got stung by a scorpion, right next to my bollocks! I woke up with this pain in my crotch and couldnt find anything except a red patch so went back to sleep. An hour or so later I woke up and found a scorpion crawling over my shorts

It was sore but not really worse than say a hornet? so maybe I only got the stun(g).

I have had many other meeting with scorpions but that the only time I got stung.

Well, it could have been actually something else that bit you. Where there is one insect, there can reasonably be expected to be others.

It might have just been a spider - then again, as noted, there are plenty of kinds of scorpions, some aren't very toxic, others which you would certainly be hurting alot worse than a hornet.

Might have just been the milder kind of scorpion.

Jon_in_london · 23rd January 2003, 07:11 AM

No, fairly sure it was that scorpion. It wasnt the same as a bee or wasp bite- different pain. Spider bites tend to be rather painless but cause more extensive tissue damage- usually if you get bitten by a spider during the night, the next day you will have a large blister. The venom causes tissue necrosis or something.

Also I was on the beach where you usually dont get many insects at all (why I was sleeping there in the first case).

Anothertime I got a bite frm something just above my arse- over the course of a week a rash spread overmy whole body. Big angry red welts. I started taking anti-histamines but they didnt help. It took 2 weeks to go away. Love to know what bastard that was.

espritch · 23rd January 2003, 11:08 AM

From the article:

Quote:

Hammock said he got interested in working with scorpion venom while researching insecticides. He wanted to take the type of common cold virus that infects insects and insert a gene for a toxin, so that when the insect gets a cold it dies.

Am I being a little paranoid or does creating a toxic cold virus seem like a really really bad idea?

espritch · 23rd January 2003, 11:15 AM

Quote:

I believe it's the case that smaller scorpions are more toxic, larger ones less.

I saw a TV program about scorpions that suggested that the two main indicators of the poinsonness of a scorpion are the size of it's claws and the climate it lives in. Scorpion species with small claws tend to be more venomous than those with large claws since they depend more on their venom to subdue prey (those with large claws mainly use the claws to catch their meals). Scorpions from desert areas are more venomous than those from wetter climates since they have fewer feeding opportunities and must make the most of those that come along (hence stronger venom to insure a kill).

23rd January 2003, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Plutarck

Where there is one insect, there can reasonably be expected to be others.

It might have just been a spider...

I don't want to get nitpicky but scorpions and spiders are not insects. They are all arthropods, but scorpions and spiders are arachnids.

BTW, thanks for the info Huntsman. I have not read it in great depth, but will certainly peruse it when work slows down a bit.

Mr. Turquoise

American · 23rd January 2003, 07:15 PM

Someone told me about an African fly that bites.

Apparently it doesn't hurt, because you drop to the ground immediately and your own screaming is so loud that it masks the pain.

Well, everything's exagerated. Wish I knew the species.

Jon_in_london · 24th January 2003, 02:05 AM

American, they are called horse-flys and they are real buggers (dont knwo the latin name). Once they decide they dont like you they wont leave you alone. they WILL NOT leave you alone. They hurt quite a lot more than an (african) bee or wasp.

I was swimming once and this bastard horse fly started buzzing around me. I would dive under water and try swimming away but it always founf me again. It was like being in a u-boat with a destroyer overhead!

I seriously hate those F£$%^&ing things.

espritch · 24th January 2003, 04:02 PM

Quote:

I was swimming once and this bastard horse fly started buzzing around me. I would dive under water and try swimming away but it always founf me again. It was like being in a u-boat with a destroyer overhead!

The best way to deal with a horse fly is to let it land and slap the heck out of it before it gets a chance to bite you. Of course you can end of slapping yourself in the head several times before you get it, but it's worth it to kill the rotten blighters.

We also have a smaller species of biting fly around here called a yellow fly. They don't hurt as bad horse flies but there tend to be a lot more of them. They can make a walk in the woods in the summer months a truly unpleasant experience.

I hate both species with an equally deep and abiding hate.

24th January 2003, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Turquoise

I don't want to get nitpicky but scorpions and spiders are not insects. They are all arthropods, but scorpions and spiders are arachnids.

BTW, thanks for the info Huntsman. I have not read it in great depth, but will certainly peruse it when work slows down a bit.

Mr. Turquoise

damn - beat me to it on the non-insect call!!! I thought everyone knew this - next we'll be confusing them with "bugs" !!

I agree on the interesting info - really quite a fascinating topic

24th January 2003, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by espritch

The best way to deal with a horse fly is to let it land and slap the heck out of it before it gets a chance to bite you. Of course you can end of slapping yourself in the head several times before you get it, but it's worth it to kill the rotten blighters.

We also have a smaller species of biting fly around here called a yellow fly. They don't hurt as bad horse flies but there tend to be a lot more of them. They can make a walk in the woods in the summer months a truly unpleasant experience.

I hate both species with an equally deep and abiding hate.

actually, I've always rather enjoyed horseflys - at least as you say they're big, stupid and very killable - some satisfaction is possible. Come to northern Canada in the summer and introduce yourself to the blackfly - actually, the problem is not the one blackfly you introduce yourself to - it is the several million friends that then join the party, each quite happy to literally take a piece of you (drawing visible blood often) and apparently not really caring if you kill it or not, content to know 10 of it's friends will land in the space you just created by lifting your hand after that slap. It does quite literally drive people, cariboo, and elk, insane.

Jon_in_london · 27th January 2003, 12:00 AM

Red Ants!! These are nasty pieces of creation. Proof that if god exists he is a cruel bastard.

They move across the ground in vast numbers- millions of ants. They dont have any poison but their jaws are so damn strong a bite really does hurt. The problem is the way they move- a big thick central column but with a number of 'outriders' or pickets further away. Thus, when walking down the garden path, you spot the main body and think you avoided it by taking a big straide over it. However, minutes later, you get this biting feeling all up and down your legs and your arse and your crotch. This leeds to quite hilarious stampy-jumpy-rip-of-my-pantsy-and-claw-wildly type behaviour. The worst thing is, for hours afterwards you *imagine* you have red ants up and down your legs.

Also tse-tse (or putse) flies. They lay thier eggs in damp clothing/bedding. The eggs hatch and burrow under you skin. They then grow into big maggots that writhe around and eventually burst out. I had a few of those too...

tygirwulf · 27th January 2003, 07:52 AM

*shudders*

The worst encounter I've had any insects is the big black ant that was hanging around the toilet seat when I sat down... It scared me more than it hurt, but it did take a few seconds to detach it from my arse.

A Marine friend of mine stationed in twenty nine palms near palm springs told me that once when they were doing desert exercises, he woke up one morning to find a black scorpion on his face. He said he slowly reached up, picked it off his face, and set down on the ground. How do you do that? Even if I knew I must remain calm, I'm sure I'd have that involuntary jerk before the rational part set in and told me to be still. Must be why some people are Marines and others aren't.

27th January 2003, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
American, they are called horse-flys and they are real buggers (dont knwo the latin name). Once they decide they dont like you they wont leave you alone. they WILL NOT leave you alone. They hurt quite a lot more than an (african) bee or wasp.

I was swimming once and this bastard horse fly started buzzing around me. I would dive under water and try swimming away but it always founf me again. It was like being in a u-boat with a destroyer overhead!

I seriously hate those F£$%^&ing things.

We have those here in New York as well. Damn things only seem to show up when you're swimming, too. Hate 'em with a passion.

xouper · 11th February 2004, 08:52 AM

bump

21st January 2003, 11:55 AM	#1
arcticpenguin woo ban clan Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,717	Scorpion stings Scorpions can set their stings on either of two settings, stun or kill. The 'stun' setting mostly uses potassium salts and cause a lot of pain. The 'kill' setting uses protein toxins.
	__________________ The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it. - George Bernard Shaw

22nd January 2003, 01:16 AM	#3
Jon_in_london Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 4,994	I 0nce got stung by a scorpion, right next to my bollocks! I woke up with this pain in my crotch and couldnt find anything except a red patch so went back to sleep. An hour or so later I woke up and found a scorpion crawling over my shorts It was sore but not really worse than say a hornet? so maybe I only got the stun(g). I have had many other meeting with scorpions but that the only time I got stung.
	__________________ Radicals and Racists Don't point your finger at me I'm a small town white boy Just tryin' to make ends meet Don't need your religion Don't watch that much T.V. Just makin' my livin', baby Well that's enough for me

22nd January 2003, 12:45 PM	#4
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Nap, interrupted. Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: a little toolshed Posts: 18,589	I believe it's the case that smaller scorpions are more toxic, larger ones less. ~~ Paul
	__________________ Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. ---Susan Ertz RIP Mr. Skinny

22nd January 2003, 11:34 PM	#5
Mr. Turquoise Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos I believe it's the case that smaller scorpions are more toxic, larger ones less. I recall hearing something similar. What I heard was that younger scorpions (smaller than older ones, perhaps??) were more dangerous than older ones because they were less able to control the dose of toxin delivered. I have no idea where I heard this, or how one can readily determine the age of a scorpion, but it is interesting to learn that there may be a small grain of truth to it. Mr. Turquoise
Mr. Turquoise Guest Posts: n/a

23rd January 2003, 05:23 AM	#7
Plutarck Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by Jon_in_london I 0nce got stung by a scorpion, right next to my bollocks! I woke up with this pain in my crotch and couldnt find anything except a red patch so went back to sleep. An hour or so later I woke up and found a scorpion crawling over my shorts It was sore but not really worse than say a hornet? so maybe I only got the stun(g). I have had many other meeting with scorpions but that the only time I got stung. Well, it could have been actually something else that bit you. Where there is one insect, there can reasonably be expected to be others. It might have just been a spider - then again, as noted, there are plenty of kinds of scorpions, some aren't very toxic, others which you would certainly be hurting alot worse than a hornet. Might have just been the milder kind of scorpion.
Plutarck Guest Posts: n/a

21st January 2003, 01:00 PM	#2
Skeptoid Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,532	Very interesting. You learn something new every day. Thanks, AP.

22nd January 2003, 11:45 PM	#6
Hellbound Abiogenic Spongiform Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a handbasket Posts: 8,911	Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Turquoise I recall hearing something similar. What I heard was that younger scorpions (smaller than older ones, perhaps??) were more dangerous than older ones because they were less able to control the dose of toxin delivered. I have no idea where I heard this, or how one can readily determine the age of a scorpion, but it is interesting to learn that there may be a small grain of truth to it. Mr. Turquoise Well, for size in general (over all of Class SCORPIONIDA), this is not true. Some of the most deadly species in North America grow 6" or longer (w/o tail). Conversely, we have scorpions in my area that rarely get over an inch or two, and are not very poisonous. Now, as to the scorpions age (within a single species), there might be something to it (I know this is the case for many posionous snakes); but unless you know the species the size doesn't really tell you much. Found a FAQ site that gives a lot of good info, but doesn't specifically mention this idea: http://wrbu.si.edu/www/stockwell/faq/sting.html I'll see if I can find anything else.

23rd January 2003, 07:11 AM	#8
Jon_in_london Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 4,994	No, fairly sure it was that scorpion. It wasnt the same as a bee or wasp bite- different pain. Spider bites tend to be rather painless but cause more extensive tissue damage- usually if you get bitten by a spider during the night, the next day you will have a large blister. The venom causes tissue necrosis or something. Also I was on the beach where you usually dont get many insects at all (why I was sleeping there in the first case). Anothertime I got a bite frm something just above my arse- over the course of a week a rash spread overmy whole body. Big angry red welts. I started taking anti-histamines but they didnt help. It took 2 weeks to go away. Love to know what bastard that was.
	__________________ Radicals and Racists Don't point your finger at me I'm a small town white boy Just tryin' to make ends meet Don't need your religion Don't watch that much T.V. Just makin' my livin', baby Well that's enough for me

23rd January 2003, 11:08 AM	#9
espritch Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,380	From the article: Quote: Hammock said he got interested in working with scorpion venom while researching insecticides. He wanted to take the type of common cold virus that infects insects and insert a gene for a toxin, so that when the insect gets a cold it dies. Am I being a little paranoid or does creating a toxic cold virus seem like a really really bad idea?
	__________________ "I'm the master of low expectations." - G. W. Bush

23rd January 2003, 11:15 AM	#10
espritch Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,380	Quote: I believe it's the case that smaller scorpions are more toxic, larger ones less. I saw a TV program about scorpions that suggested that the two main indicators of the poinsonness of a scorpion are the size of it's claws and the climate it lives in. Scorpion species with small claws tend to be more venomous than those with large claws since they depend more on their venom to subdue prey (those with large claws mainly use the claws to catch their meals). Scorpions from desert areas are more venomous than those from wetter climates since they have fewer feeding opportunities and must make the most of those that come along (hence stronger venom to insure a kill).
	__________________ "I'm the master of low expectations." - G. W. Bush

23rd January 2003, 06:44 PM	#11
Mr. Turquoise Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by Plutarck Where there is one insect, there can reasonably be expected to be others. It might have just been a spider... I don't want to get nitpicky but scorpions and spiders are not insects. They are all arthropods, but scorpions and spiders are arachnids. BTW, thanks for the info Huntsman. I have not read it in great depth, but will certainly peruse it when work slows down a bit. Mr. Turquoise
Mr. Turquoise Guest Posts: n/a

23rd January 2003, 07:15 PM	#12
American Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: CA Posts: 3,842	Someone told me about an African fly that bites. Apparently it doesn't hurt, because you drop to the ground immediately and your own screaming is so loud that it masks the pain. Well, everything's exagerated. Wish I knew the species.

24th January 2003, 02:05 AM	#13
Jon_in_london Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 4,994	American, they are called horse-flys and they are real buggers (dont knwo the latin name). Once they decide they dont like you they wont leave you alone. they WILL NOT leave you alone. They hurt quite a lot more than an (african) bee or wasp. I was swimming once and this bastard horse fly started buzzing around me. I would dive under water and try swimming away but it always founf me again. It was like being in a u-boat with a destroyer overhead! I seriously hate those F£$%^&ing things.
	__________________ Radicals and Racists Don't point your finger at me I'm a small town white boy Just tryin' to make ends meet Don't need your religion Don't watch that much T.V. Just makin' my livin', baby Well that's enough for me

24th January 2003, 04:02 PM	#14
espritch Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,380	Quote: I was swimming once and this bastard horse fly started buzzing around me. I would dive under water and try swimming away but it always founf me again. It was like being in a u-boat with a destroyer overhead! The best way to deal with a horse fly is to let it land and slap the heck out of it before it gets a chance to bite you. Of course you can end of slapping yourself in the head several times before you get it, but it's worth it to kill the rotten blighters. We also have a smaller species of biting fly around here called a yellow fly. They don't hurt as bad horse flies but there tend to be a lot more of them. They can make a walk in the woods in the summer months a truly unpleasant experience. I hate both species with an equally deep and abiding hate.
	__________________ "I'm the master of low expectations." - G. W. Bush

24th January 2003, 09:08 PM	#15
rockyroad Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Turquoise I don't want to get nitpicky but scorpions and spiders are not insects. They are all arthropods, but scorpions and spiders are arachnids. BTW, thanks for the info Huntsman. I have not read it in great depth, but will certainly peruse it when work slows down a bit. Mr. Turquoise damn - beat me to it on the non-insect call!!! I thought everyone knew this - next we'll be confusing them with "bugs" !! I agree on the interesting info - really quite a fascinating topic
rockyroad Guest Posts: n/a

24th January 2003, 09:13 PM	#16
rockyroad Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by espritch The best way to deal with a horse fly is to let it land and slap the heck out of it before it gets a chance to bite you. Of course you can end of slapping yourself in the head several times before you get it, but it's worth it to kill the rotten blighters. We also have a smaller species of biting fly around here called a yellow fly. They don't hurt as bad horse flies but there tend to be a lot more of them. They can make a walk in the woods in the summer months a truly unpleasant experience. I hate both species with an equally deep and abiding hate. actually, I've always rather enjoyed horseflys - at least as you say they're big, stupid and very killable - some satisfaction is possible. Come to northern Canada in the summer and introduce yourself to the blackfly - actually, the problem is not the one blackfly you introduce yourself to - it is the several million friends that then join the party, each quite happy to literally take a piece of you (drawing visible blood often) and apparently not really caring if you kill it or not, content to know 10 of it's friends will land in the space you just created by lifting your hand after that slap. It does quite literally drive people, cariboo, and elk, insane.
rockyroad Guest Posts: n/a

27th January 2003, 12:00 AM	#17
Jon_in_london Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 4,994	Red Ants!! These are nasty pieces of creation. Proof that if god exists he is a cruel bastard. They move across the ground in vast numbers- millions of ants. They dont have any poison but their jaws are so damn strong a bite really does hurt. The problem is the way they move- a big thick central column but with a number of 'outriders' or pickets further away. Thus, when walking down the garden path, you spot the main body and think you avoided it by taking a big straide over it. However, minutes later, you get this biting feeling all up and down your legs and your arse and your crotch. This leeds to quite hilarious stampy-jumpy-rip-of-my-pantsy-and-claw-wildly type behaviour. The worst thing is, for hours afterwards you imagine you have red ants up and down your legs. Also tse-tse (or putse) flies. They lay thier eggs in damp clothing/bedding. The eggs hatch and burrow under you skin. They then grow into big maggots that writhe around and eventually burst out. I had a few of those too...
	__________________ Radicals and Racists Don't point your finger at me I'm a small town white boy Just tryin' to make ends meet Don't need your religion Don't watch that much T.V. Just makin' my livin', baby Well that's enough for me

27th January 2003, 07:52 AM	#18
tygirwulf Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 371	shudders The worst encounter I've had any insects is the big black ant that was hanging around the toilet seat when I sat down... It scared me more than it hurt, but it did take a few seconds to detach it from my arse. A Marine friend of mine stationed in twenty nine palms near palm springs told me that once when they were doing desert exercises, he woke up one morning to find a black scorpion on his face. He said he slowly reached up, picked it off his face, and set down on the ground. How do you do that? Even if I knew I must remain calm, I'm sure I'd have that involuntary jerk before the rational part set in and told me to be still. Must be why some people are Marines and others aren't.
	__________________ "Those who sacrifice liberty for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin. We have to choose what we want for our future, or somebody else will. - Jeremiah

27th January 2003, 10:02 AM	#19
BrotherBluto Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by Jon_in_london American, they are called horse-flys and they are real buggers (dont knwo the latin name). Once they decide they dont like you they wont leave you alone. they WILL NOT leave you alone. They hurt quite a lot more than an (african) bee or wasp. I was swimming once and this bastard horse fly started buzzing around me. I would dive under water and try swimming away but it always founf me again. It was like being in a u-boat with a destroyer overhead! I seriously hate those F£$%^&ing things. We have those here in New York as well. Damn things only seem to show up when you're swimming, too. Hate 'em with a passion.
BrotherBluto Guest Posts: n/a

11th February 2004, 08:52 AM	#20
xouper Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 2,189	bump
xouper Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 2,189