[Merged] Trump doubles down / claims that 'he heard' Obama was a poor student at Harvard

Alferd_Packer · 26th April 2011, 06:43 AM

Donald Trump has doubled down after playing the birther racist card. His latest series of attacks follows the common birther theme of “how did the president get into college?”

Talk about the soft racism of low expectations.

Quote:

In an interview with the Associated Press, Trump alleged that Mr. Obama had been "a terrible student," and wondered how he could have been accepted to prestigious schools like Columbia and Harvard Universities.

http://www.ktvq.com/news/trump-how-d...e-ivy-league-/

Note the unspoken question here: “how did a black man get into these schools?” Note the implication that Obama somehow “gamed” the system.

I am waiting for The Chump to make the claim that Obama received a Fulbright scholarship for foreign students. This, of course, is a common Birther claim based on an April 1, 2009 hoax e-mail.

The most disgusting thing about this is that so few peopl are calling Trump out on this.

randman · 26th April 2011, 06:57 AM

Well, we know Obama got in because he was half-African, but I think the question is whether he got in for other reasons as well, based on politics specifically, and so a minority more deserving grade-wise did not.

Remember Obama said he hung around Marxists and other leftists; that those were his friends, and he hasn't released his records from that time. Trump is likely suggesting he had some leftist associations that pulled some strings to get him into Columbia and Harvard and did so specifically due to his far left leanings.

SkepBlond · 26th April 2011, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by Alferd_Packer

The most disgusting thing about this is that so few peopl are calling Trump out on this.

Hopefully it is because few people take him seriously enough to bother with his "birther" stupidity.

Kestrel · 26th April 2011, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by randman

Well, we know Obama got in because he was half-African, but I think the question is whether he got in for other reasons as well, based on politics specifically, and so a minority more deserving grade-wise did not.

Remember Obama said he hung around Marxists and other leftists; that those were his friends, and he hasn't released his records from that time. Trump is likely suggesting he had some leftist associations that pulled some strings to get him into Columbia and Harvard and did so specifically due to his far left leanings.

In an alternative universe where Marxists leave huge endowments to Ivy League colleges, this might work.

randman · 26th April 2011, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by Kestrel

In an alternative universe where Marxists leave huge endowments to Ivy League colleges, this might work.

Are really that unfamiliar with the Left?

unbelievable

MNBrant · 26th April 2011, 07:15 AM

Might be setting himself up as kingmaker saying things that the mainstream cant say. There might be truth to some of it. He might be someones boy but nobody wants to state it plainly and openly.

IDB87 · 26th April 2011, 07:26 AM

I hope Palin, Trump and Romney all run. That's some good TV.

Derpaherp

SkepBlond · 26th April 2011, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by IDB87

I hope Palin, Trump and Romney all run. That's some good TV.

Can't argue with that, hahaha.

JoeTheJuggler · 26th April 2011, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by randman

Well, we know Obama got in because he was half-African

Do you have evidence for this, or by "we know" do you mean that you personally believe this?

JoeTheJuggler · 26th April 2011, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by MNBrant

Might be setting himself up as kingmaker saying things that the mainstream cant [sic] say. There might be truth to some of it.

Truth to what?

And what exactly is it that Trump says that the mainstream can't say? Why can't the mainstream say it?

Who is the mainstream anyway? Are you talking about the news media or other candidates (none of whom are in the mainstream, IMO)?

randman · 26th April 2011, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

Do you have evidence for this, or by "we know" do you mean that you personally believe this?

You never heard of affirmative action?

JoeTheJuggler · 26th April 2011, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by randman

You never heard of affirmative action?

Do you always answer questions with questions?

Do you think saying he benefited from affirmative action is the same thing as saying "Obama got in because he was half-African"?

Do you claim he wasn't academically qualified? That is what it implies when you say, "Obama got in because he was half-African".

Affirmative action doesn't require someone to be accepted who isn't qualified.

Do you think all applicants who are half-African (however you define that strange idea) are accepted?

While we're asking questions, are you aware that Obama graduated Harvard Law School magna cum laude?

casebro · 26th April 2011, 08:54 AM

I do think Obama is hiding some stuff. Probably nothing overtly illegal, just things that would cost him votes. We already know about his radical lefty-ness. But Moslem? College application fraud?

Both he and Michelle surrendered their lawyer's licenses, Why? Lying about law school transcripts? Littlerock all over again?

But then they did re-elect Clinton...

I'm going to stock up on popcorn, a two year's supply.

JoeTheJuggler · 26th April 2011, 08:54 AM

So Trump went to Fordham and then got a B.S. from the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School of Business.

Shouldn't we assume he flunked out of Fordham?

randman · 26th April 2011, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

Do you always answer questions with questions?

Do you think saying he benefited from affirmative action is the same thing as saying "Obama got in because he was half-African"?

Do you claim he wasn't academically qualified? That is what it implies when you say, "Obama got in because he was half-African".

Affirmative action doesn't require someone to be accepted who isn't qualified.

Do you think all applicants who are half-African (however you define that strange idea) are accepted?

While we're asking questions, are you aware that Obama graduated Harvard Law School magna cum laude?

Joe, what's your problem. Affirmative action was set up to admit "half African", black American, Hispanic, Native Indian and other minorities who have lower test score, grades, etc,....than white Americans, particularly white males. Curiously, it has now morphed into a "diversity" issue since the Courts struck it down and so some minorities (certain Asians) actually are more discriminated against than whites.

But you act like you had no idea this was what was going on?

Obama was not reported (by his own admission in his books) to be a high achieving high school and college student, but he still got into Columbia and then Harvard. He finally did well ar Harvard.

He got in because he's black. If he was white, he wouldn't have gotten into Columbia, nor Harvard. These are not controversial statements. Obama doesn't pretend affirmative action didn't get him in so why are you?

randman · 26th April 2011, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

Do you always answer questions with questions?

Do you think saying he benefited from affirmative action is the same thing as saying "Obama got in because he was half-African"?

Do you claim he wasn't academically qualified? That is what it implies when you say, "Obama got in because he was half-African".

Affirmative action doesn't require someone to be accepted who isn't qualified.

Do you think all applicants who are half-African (however you define that strange idea) are accepted?

While we're asking questions, are you aware that Obama graduated Harvard Law School magna cum laude?

Oh, and just to spell it our for you, I wrote "half African" because his Dad was African. Obama doesn't come from an
"African-American" or minority American family heritage. It's quite possible that he was accepted in place of a minority American whose family helped build this nation but had been discriminated against via Jim Crow and other things.

Obama came from a somewhat privileged background, not an oppressed one.

JoeTheJuggler · 26th April 2011, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by randman

Joe, what's your problem.

I have no problem. I'm challenging your unsubstantiated claim that "Obama got in because he was half-African".

Quote:

Affirmative action was set up to admit "half African", black American, Hispanic, Native Indian and other minorities who have lower test score, grades, etc,....than white Americans, particularly white males.

False, as a matter of fact. Affirmative action was first created by JFK's executive order, and was originally meant to take affirmative action to make hiring and contracting practices race-blind. It later became a policy that gives preference to minorities who are fully qualified.

Quote:

But you act like you had no idea this was what was going on?

I know exactly what's going on. You have made a fully unsubstantiated claim in saying that "Obama got in because he was half-African".

Quote:

He got in because he's black. If he was white, he wouldn't have gotten into Columbia, nor Harvard. These are not controversial statements.

You are merely begging the question, and I am unwilling to concede it without substantiation.

So, where's your evidence?

Quote:

Obama doesn't pretend affirmative action didn't get him in so why are you?

Whether or not he benefitted from affirmative action is not the same as the claim you made, that "Obama got in because he was half-African". Affirmative action does not make any allowances for accepting unqualified applicants.

In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, we can only assume he was accepted because he was qualified.

Biscuit · 26th April 2011, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by randman

Oh, and just to spell it our for you, I wrote "half African" because his Dad was African. Obama doesn't come from an
"African-American" or minority American family heritage. It's quite possible that he was accepted in place of a minority American whose family helped build this nation but had been discriminated against via Jim Crow and other things.

Obama came from a somewhat privileged background, not an oppressed one.

That is the prettiest way of saying slavery I have ever read.

Taarkin · 26th April 2011, 09:17 AM

A black man succeeded at something?? He must be cheating!

It's curious that, despite the existence of a pro-white bias in many fields, nobody ever claims "he only got that because he's white!".

randman · 26th April 2011, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by Biscuit

That is the prettiest way of saying slavery I have ever read.

Not just slavery. There is an argument for favoring families that were discriminated against, but merely promoting someone for the color of his skin is wrong, imo. Obama didn't come from an oppressed background. The idea the color of his skin means he should be granted preferential treatment is misguided.

Now we have our first affirmative action president, rode the color issue all the way to the White House, and his roots are not even in black America.

MNBrant · 26th April 2011, 09:21 AM

I can't believe we are debating something that came from underneath his comb over.

Cleon · 26th April 2011, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by randman

Now we have our first affirmative action president,

Surprisingly, repeating the claim doesn't actually substantiate it.

headscratcher4 · 26th April 2011, 09:30 AM

Yes, it was a pretty priveledged background... a single mother, a bi-racial family of modest means living in a country that elevates every bi-racial child of a single mother to high status. When I attended University -- about the time Obama was attending Columbia -- I was always impressed by how the bi-racial children of single mothers ran the fraternaties, the school newspaper, etc. leaving only sports scholarships for legacy white males. It was, and is, a terrible situation. It is amazing to me that any white males can even get a college degree in this day and age.

Fortunately, Donald Trump has battled that kind of unfortunate sterotyping that says taht a white male from a priveledged background can't get into college, little less graduate. He's kinda like Rosa Parks.

Biscuit · 26th April 2011, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by randman

He got in because he's black. If he was white, he wouldn't have gotten into Columbia, nor Harvard.

Do you have an alternate reality machine that allows you to know this?

Originally Posted by randman

These are not controversial statements. Obama doesn't pretend affirmative action didn't get him in so why are you?

They aren't controversial they are just supposition without evidence. When Obama says that he was helped by affirmative action you translate that to mean something like,

"I was not qualified to have achieved what I did. I got a free ride."

However I think its more along the lines of,

"Affirmative action helped to stop people from holding me back to due my racial origins."

PGH · 26th April 2011, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by headscratcher4

Yes, it was a pretty priveledged background... a single mother, a bi-racial family of modest means living in a country that elevates every bi-racial child of a single mother to high status. When I attended University -- about the time Obama was attending Columbia -- I was always impressed by how the bi-racial children of single mothers ran the fraternaties, the school newspaper, etc. leaving only sports scholarships for legacy white males. It was, and is, a terrible situation. It is amazing to me that any white males can even get a college degree in this day and age.

Fortunately, Donald Trump has battled that kind of unfortunate sterotyping that says taht a white male from a priveledged background can't get into college, little less graduate. He's kinda like Rosa Parks.

Thank you. It's a shame that some people honestly believe this nonsense.

thaiboxerken · 26th April 2011, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by randman

Well, we know Obama got in because he was half-African....

This is a common talking point among many racists. Why do you repeat it?

PGH · 26th April 2011, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

This is a common talking point among many racists. Why do you repeat it?

I think you answered your own question there.

BenBurch · 26th April 2011, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

This is a common talking point among many racists. Why do you repeat it?

I'll give you a clue if you need it.

randman · 26th April 2011, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by PGH

Thank you. It's a shame that some people honestly believe this nonsense.

Obama attended an elite, expensive private high school in Hawaii and was largely raised since age 10 by his grandparents. The idea he stemmed from a poor background is absurd.

Unabogie · 26th April 2011, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by casebro

I do think Obama is hiding some stuff. Probably nothing overtly illegal, just things that would cost him votes. We already know about his radical lefty-ness. But Moslem? College application fraud?

Both he and Michelle surrendered their lawyer's licenses, Why? Lying about law school transcripts? Littlerock all over again?

But then they did re-elect Clinton...

I'm going to stock up on popcorn, a two year's supply.

It should be noted that absolutely none of what you wrote here is true.

PGH · 26th April 2011, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by randman

Obama attended an elite, expensive private high school in Hawaii and was largely raised since age 10 by his grandparents. The idea he stemmed from a poor background is absurd.

Really? I thought we didn't know anything about his background because of the millions he spent to seal the records of his childhood in Kenya?

randman · 26th April 2011, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Unabogie

It should be noted that absolutely none of what you wrote here is true.

What part is not true? Obama did give up his law license and Michelle went on inactive status.

leftysergeant · 26th April 2011, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by randman

He got in because he's black. If he was white, he wouldn't have gotten into Columbia, nor Harvard. These are not controversial statements. Obama doesn't pretend affirmative action didn't get him in so why are you?

Bull flops. He got in because he's bright. You don't get elected president of Harvard Law Review on affirmative action.

And you don't have to be particularly bright to get an MBA. The Shrub got one.

There is no proof that The Chump is anywhere near as bright as Obama, and I have not seen The Chump's long-form birth certificate, either, so there is no more proof that he is qualified to even run for POTUS.

Unabogie · 26th April 2011, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by randman

What part is not true? Obama did give up his law license and Michelle went on inactive status.

Evidence?

randman · 26th April 2011, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

Bull flops. He got in because he's bright. You don't get elected president of Harvard Law Review on affirmative action.

And you don't have to be particularly bright to get an MBA. The Shrub got one.

There is no proof that The Chump is anywhere near as bright as Obama, and I have not seen The Chump's long-form birth certificate, either, so there is no more proof that he is qualified to even run for POTUS.

I have seen no evidence that Obama is particularly bright and doesn't seem very intellectually curious. His thinking on issues is relatively shallow, at least from what we've seen of his comments.

Sounds more like a sophomore in college than someone with years of thought and experience, but maybe he's hiding his real thoughts? I don't know, but even though Bush wasn't that great, he displayed more knowledge of policy details than Obama has.

Unabogie · 26th April 2011, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by randman

I have seen no evidence that Obama is particularly bright and doesn't seem very intellectually curious. His thinking on issues is relatively shallow, at least from what we've seen of his comments.

Sounds more like a sophomore in college than someone with years of thought and experience, but maybe he's hiding his real thoughts? I don't know, but even though Bush wasn't that great, he displayed more knowledge of policy details than Obama has.

I thought he wrote a book that was better than Hemmingway (Hemmingway plus!) and yet he also pulled off the greatest hoax in the history of Presidentin'?

ANTPogo · 26th April 2011, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by randman

What part is not true?

All of it.

Quote:

Obama did give up his law license and Michelle went on inactive status.

Neither of them "surrendered" their law licenses (a specific terminology used when this accusation first came up to imply that the licenses were given up voluntarily before they could be taken away involuntarily).

Barack Obama retired his law license since he wasn't in the active practice of law any more (and, as a career politician, was unlikely to return). He had no disciplinary actions, either past or pending, at the time he retired his license. He could have kept it, if he wanted - his law license was not going to be taken from him if he had decided to keep it.

Michelle Obama's license, on the other hand, is just in inactive status. She can reactivate it at any time, and continue to practice law if she wishes.

You can read about it all here.

thaiboxerken · 26th April 2011, 10:21 AM

Once again, Randman is here to remind the rest of us of the mainstream Republican views. Thanks, Randman!

randman · 26th April 2011, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Unabogie

I thought he wrote a book that was better than Hemmingway (Hemmingway plus!) and yet he also pulled off the greatest hoax in the history of Presidentin'?

You mean the book Ayers wrote for him. Funny how the next book didn't reflect such brilliance as a writer and how the language and imagery of the well-written book matched Ayers so well.

Newtons Bit · 26th April 2011, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Unabogie

I thought he wrote a book that was better than Hemmingway (Hemmingway plus!) and yet he also pulled off the greatest hoax in the history of Presidentin'?

It was probably ghost written by Ayers

26th April 2011, 06:43 AM	#1
Alferd_Packer Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 7,201	Trump doubles down / claims that 'he heard' Obama was a poor student at Harvard Donald Trump has doubled down after playing the birther racist card. His latest series of attacks follows the common birther theme of “how did the president get into college?” Talk about the soft racism of low expectations. Quote: In an interview with the Associated Press, Trump alleged that Mr. Obama had been "a terrible student," and wondered how he could have been accepted to prestigious schools like Columbia and Harvard Universities. http://www.ktvq.com/news/trump-how-d...e-ivy-league-/ Note the unspoken question here: “how did a black man get into these schools?” Note the implication that Obama somehow “gamed” the system. I am waiting for The Chump to make the claim that Obama received a Fulbright scholarship for foreign students. This, of course, is a common Birther claim based on an April 1, 2009 hoax e-mail. The most disgusting thing about this is that so few peopl are calling Trump out on this.
	__________________ No laws of physics were broken in the writing of this post

26th April 2011, 06:57 AM	#2
randman Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,677	Well, we know Obama got in because he was half-African, but I think the question is whether he got in for other reasons as well, based on politics specifically, and so a minority more deserving grade-wise did not. Remember Obama said he hung around Marxists and other leftists; that those were his friends, and he hasn't released his records from that time. Trump is likely suggesting he had some leftist associations that pulled some strings to get him into Columbia and Harvard and did so specifically due to his far left leanings.
randman Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,677	Last edited by randman; 26th April 2011 at 06:58 AM.

26th April 2011, 06:58 AM	#3
SkepBlond Student Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 42	Originally Posted by Alferd_Packer The most disgusting thing about this is that so few peopl are calling Trump out on this. Hopefully it is because few people take him seriously enough to bother with his "birther" stupidity.
SkepBlond Student Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 42

26th April 2011, 07:10 AM	#5
randman Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,677	Originally Posted by Kestrel In an alternative universe where Marxists leave huge endowments to Ivy League colleges, this might work. Are really that unfamiliar with the Left? unbelievable
randman Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,677

26th April 2011, 07:15 AM	#6
MNBrant Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,156	Might be setting himself up as kingmaker saying things that the mainstream cant say. There might be truth to some of it. He might be someones boy but nobody wants to state it plainly and openly.
MNBrant Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,156

26th April 2011, 07:04 AM	#4
Kestrel Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: DM79 Posts: 4,203	Originally Posted by randman Well, we know Obama got in because he was half-African, but I think the question is whether he got in for other reasons as well, based on politics specifically, and so a minority more deserving grade-wise did not. Remember Obama said he hung around Marxists and other leftists; that those were his friends, and he hasn't released his records from that time. Trump is likely suggesting he had some leftist associations that pulled some strings to get him into Columbia and Harvard and did so specifically due to his far left leanings. In an alternative universe where Marxists leave huge endowments to Ivy League colleges, this might work.

26th April 2011, 07:26 AM	#7
IDB87 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: In the Grass Posts: 3,414	I hope Palin, Trump and Romney all run. That's some good TV. Derpaherp
	__________________ It's guaranteed I'm overreacting.

26th April 2011, 07:29 AM	#8
SkepBlond Student Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 42	Originally Posted by IDB87 I hope Palin, Trump and Romney all run. That's some good TV. Can't argue with that, hahaha.
SkepBlond Student Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 42

26th April 2011, 08:28 AM	#9
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,728	Originally Posted by randman Well, we know Obama got in because he was half-African Do you have evidence for this, or by "we know" do you mean that you personally believe this?
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

26th April 2011, 08:32 AM	#10
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,728	Originally Posted by MNBrant Might be setting himself up as kingmaker saying things that the mainstream cant [sic] say. There might be truth to some of it. Truth to what? And what exactly is it that Trump says that the mainstream can't say? Why can't the mainstream say it? Who is the mainstream anyway? Are you talking about the news media or other candidates (none of whom are in the mainstream, IMO)?
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

26th April 2011, 08:34 AM	#11
randman Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,677	Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler Do you have evidence for this, or by "we know" do you mean that you personally believe this? You never heard of affirmative action?
randman Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,677

26th April 2011, 08:40 AM	#12
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,728	Originally Posted by randman You never heard of affirmative action? Do you always answer questions with questions? Do you think saying he benefited from affirmative action is the same thing as saying "Obama got in because he was half-African"? Do you claim he wasn't academically qualified? That is what it implies when you say, "Obama got in because he was half-African". Affirmative action doesn't require someone to be accepted who isn't qualified. Do you think all applicants who are half-African (however you define that strange idea) are accepted? While we're asking questions, are you aware that Obama graduated Harvard Law School magna cum laude?
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

26th April 2011, 08:54 AM	#13
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,792	I do think Obama is hiding some stuff. Probably nothing overtly illegal, just things that would cost him votes. We already know about his radical lefty-ness. But Moslem? College application fraud? Both he and Michelle surrendered their lawyer's licenses, Why? Lying about law school transcripts? Littlerock all over again? But then they did re-elect Clinton... I'm going to stock up on popcorn, a two year's supply.
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,792	__________________ Please pardon me for having ideas, not facts. Some have called me cynical, but I don't believe them. It's not how many breaths you take. It's how many times you have been breathless that counts.

26th April 2011, 09:03 AM	#15
randman Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,677	Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler Do you always answer questions with questions? Do you think saying he benefited from affirmative action is the same thing as saying "Obama got in because he was half-African"? Do you claim he wasn't academically qualified? That is what it implies when you say, "Obama got in because he was half-African". Affirmative action doesn't require someone to be accepted who isn't qualified. Do you think all applicants who are half-African (however you define that strange idea) are accepted? While we're asking questions, are you aware that Obama graduated Harvard Law School magna cum laude? Joe, what's your problem. Affirmative action was set up to admit "half African", black American, Hispanic, Native Indian and other minorities who have lower test score, grades, etc,....than white Americans, particularly white males. Curiously, it has now morphed into a "diversity" issue since the Courts struck it down and so some minorities (certain Asians) actually are more discriminated against than whites. But you act like you had no idea this was what was going on? Obama was not reported (by his own admission in his books) to be a high achieving high school and college student, but he still got into Columbia and then Harvard. He finally did well ar Harvard. He got in because he's black. If he was white, he wouldn't have gotten into Columbia, nor Harvard. These are not controversial statements. Obama doesn't pretend affirmative action didn't get him in so why are you?
randman Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,677

26th April 2011, 09:06 AM	#16
randman Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,677	Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler Do you always answer questions with questions? Do you think saying he benefited from affirmative action is the same thing as saying "Obama got in because he was half-African"? Do you claim he wasn't academically qualified? That is what it implies when you say, "Obama got in because he was half-African". Affirmative action doesn't require someone to be accepted who isn't qualified. Do you think all applicants who are half-African (however you define that strange idea) are accepted? While we're asking questions, are you aware that Obama graduated Harvard Law School magna cum laude? Oh, and just to spell it our for you, I wrote "half African" because his Dad was African. Obama doesn't come from an "African-American" or minority American family heritage. It's quite possible that he was accepted in place of a minority American whose family helped build this nation but had been discriminated against via Jim Crow and other things. Obama came from a somewhat privileged background, not an oppressed one.
randman Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,677	Last edited by randman; 26th April 2011 at 09:07 AM.

26th April 2011, 09:13 AM	#17
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,728	Originally Posted by randman Joe, what's your problem. I have no problem. I'm challenging your unsubstantiated claim that "Obama got in because he was half-African". Quote: Affirmative action was set up to admit "half African", black American, Hispanic, Native Indian and other minorities who have lower test score, grades, etc,....than white Americans, particularly white males. False, as a matter of fact. Affirmative action was first created by JFK's executive order, and was originally meant to take affirmative action to make hiring and contracting practices race-blind. It later became a policy that gives preference to minorities who are fully qualified. Quote: But you act like you had no idea this was what was going on? I know exactly what's going on. You have made a fully unsubstantiated claim in saying that "Obama got in because he was half-African". Quote: He got in because he's black. If he was white, he wouldn't have gotten into Columbia, nor Harvard. These are not controversial statements. You are merely begging the question, and I am unwilling to concede it without substantiation. So, where's your evidence? Quote: Obama doesn't pretend affirmative action didn't get him in so why are you? Whether or not he benefitted from affirmative action is not the same as the claim you made, that "Obama got in because he was half-African". Affirmative action does not make any allowances for accepting unqualified applicants. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, we can only assume he was accepted because he was qualified.
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

26th April 2011, 09:15 AM	#18
Biscuit Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,767	Originally Posted by randman Oh, and just to spell it our for you, I wrote "half African" because his Dad was African. Obama doesn't come from an "African-American" or minority American family heritage. It's quite possible that he was accepted in place of a minority American whose family helped build this nation but had been discriminated against via Jim Crow and other things. Obama came from a somewhat privileged background, not an oppressed one. That is the prettiest way of saying slavery I have ever read.
Biscuit Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,767	__________________ “... there is no shame in not knowing. The problem arises when irrational thought and attendant behavior fill the vacuum left by ignorance.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

26th April 2011, 09:17 AM	#19
Taarkin Strider Style Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Land of Heat and Clockwork Posts: 1,221	A black man succeeded at something?? He must be cheating! It's curious that, despite the existence of a pro-white bias in many fields, nobody ever claims "he only got that because he's white!".
	Last edited by Taarkin; 26th April 2011 at 09:25 AM.

26th April 2011, 09:21 AM	#20
randman Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,677	Originally Posted by Biscuit That is the prettiest way of saying slavery I have ever read. Not just slavery. There is an argument for favoring families that were discriminated against, but merely promoting someone for the color of his skin is wrong, imo. Obama didn't come from an oppressed background. The idea the color of his skin means he should be granted preferential treatment is misguided. Now we have our first affirmative action president, rode the color issue all the way to the White House, and his roots are not even in black America.
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26th April 2011, 09:22 AM	#22
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,511	Originally Posted by randman Now we have our first affirmative action president, Surprisingly, repeating the claim doesn't actually substantiate it.
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

26th April 2011, 09:30 AM	#23
headscratcher4 Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: USA Posts: 7,749	Yes, it was a pretty priveledged background... a single mother, a bi-racial family of modest means living in a country that elevates every bi-racial child of a single mother to high status. When I attended University -- about the time Obama was attending Columbia -- I was always impressed by how the bi-racial children of single mothers ran the fraternaties, the school newspaper, etc. leaving only sports scholarships for legacy white males. It was, and is, a terrible situation. It is amazing to me that any white males can even get a college degree in this day and age. Fortunately, Donald Trump has battled that kind of unfortunate sterotyping that says taht a white male from a priveledged background can't get into college, little less graduate. He's kinda like Rosa Parks.
	__________________ Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. -- Homer Simpson

26th April 2011, 09:33 AM	#24
Biscuit Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,767	Originally Posted by randman He got in because he's black. If he was white, he wouldn't have gotten into Columbia, nor Harvard. Do you have an alternate reality machine that allows you to know this? Originally Posted by randman These are not controversial statements. Obama doesn't pretend affirmative action didn't get him in so why are you? They aren't controversial they are just supposition without evidence. When Obama says that he was helped by affirmative action you translate that to mean something like, "I was not qualified to have achieved what I did. I got a free ride." However I think its more along the lines of, "Affirmative action helped to stop people from holding me back to due my racial origins."
Biscuit Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,767	__________________ “... there is no shame in not knowing. The problem arises when irrational thought and attendant behavior fill the vacuum left by ignorance.” ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

26th April 2011, 09:36 AM	#25
PGH Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,002	Originally Posted by headscratcher4 Yes, it was a pretty priveledged background... a single mother, a bi-racial family of modest means living in a country that elevates every bi-racial child of a single mother to high status. When I attended University -- about the time Obama was attending Columbia -- I was always impressed by how the bi-racial children of single mothers ran the fraternaties, the school newspaper, etc. leaving only sports scholarships for legacy white males. It was, and is, a terrible situation. It is amazing to me that any white males can even get a college degree in this day and age. Fortunately, Donald Trump has battled that kind of unfortunate sterotyping that says taht a white male from a priveledged background can't get into college, little less graduate. He's kinda like Rosa Parks. Thank you. It's a shame that some people honestly believe this nonsense.
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26th April 2011, 09:41 AM	#26
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,955	Originally Posted by randman Well, we know Obama got in because he was half-African.... This is a common talking point among many racists. Why do you repeat it?
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26th April 2011, 09:46 AM	#27
PGH Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,002	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken This is a common talking point among many racists. Why do you repeat it? I think you answered your own question there.
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26th April 2011, 09:46 AM	#28
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,107	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken This is a common talking point among many racists. Why do you repeat it? I'll give you a clue if you need it.
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26th April 2011, 09:55 AM	#29
randman Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,677	Originally Posted by PGH Thank you. It's a shame that some people honestly believe this nonsense. Obama attended an elite, expensive private high school in Hawaii and was largely raised since age 10 by his grandparents. The idea he stemmed from a poor background is absurd.
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26th April 2011, 09:56 AM	#30
Unabogie Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 5,846	Originally Posted by casebro I do think Obama is hiding some stuff. Probably nothing overtly illegal, just things that would cost him votes. We already know about his radical lefty-ness. But Moslem? College application fraud? Both he and Michelle surrendered their lawyer's licenses, Why? Lying about law school transcripts? Littlerock all over again? But then they did re-elect Clinton... I'm going to stock up on popcorn, a two year's supply. It should be noted that absolutely none of what you wrote here is true.

26th April 2011, 09:58 AM	#31
PGH Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,002	Originally Posted by randman Obama attended an elite, expensive private high school in Hawaii and was largely raised since age 10 by his grandparents. The idea he stemmed from a poor background is absurd. Really? I thought we didn't know anything about his background because of the millions he spent to seal the records of his childhood in Kenya?
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26th April 2011, 09:59 AM	#32
randman Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,677	Originally Posted by Unabogie It should be noted that absolutely none of what you wrote here is true. What part is not true? Obama did give up his law license and Michelle went on inactive status.
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26th April 2011, 10:14 AM	#33
leftysergeant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 18,613	Originally Posted by randman He got in because he's black. If he was white, he wouldn't have gotten into Columbia, nor Harvard. These are not controversial statements. Obama doesn't pretend affirmative action didn't get him in so why are you? Bull flops. He got in because he's bright. You don't get elected president of Harvard Law Review on affirmative action. And you don't have to be particularly bright to get an MBA. The Shrub got one. There is no proof that The Chump is anywhere near as bright as Obama, and I have not seen The Chump's long-form birth certificate, either, so there is no more proof that he is qualified to even run for POTUS.
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26th April 2011, 10:16 AM	#34
Unabogie Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 5,846	Originally Posted by randman What part is not true? Obama did give up his law license and Michelle went on inactive status. Evidence?

26th April 2011, 10:17 AM	#35
randman Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,677	Originally Posted by leftysergeant Bull flops. He got in because he's bright. You don't get elected president of Harvard Law Review on affirmative action. And you don't have to be particularly bright to get an MBA. The Shrub got one. There is no proof that The Chump is anywhere near as bright as Obama, and I have not seen The Chump's long-form birth certificate, either, so there is no more proof that he is qualified to even run for POTUS. I have seen no evidence that Obama is particularly bright and doesn't seem very intellectually curious. His thinking on issues is relatively shallow, at least from what we've seen of his comments. Sounds more like a sophomore in college than someone with years of thought and experience, but maybe he's hiding his real thoughts? I don't know, but even though Bush wasn't that great, he displayed more knowledge of policy details than Obama has.
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26th April 2011, 10:19 AM	#36
Unabogie Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 5,846	Originally Posted by randman I have seen no evidence that Obama is particularly bright and doesn't seem very intellectually curious. His thinking on issues is relatively shallow, at least from what we've seen of his comments. Sounds more like a sophomore in college than someone with years of thought and experience, but maybe he's hiding his real thoughts? I don't know, but even though Bush wasn't that great, he displayed more knowledge of policy details than Obama has. I thought he wrote a book that was better than Hemmingway (Hemmingway plus!) and yet he also pulled off the greatest hoax in the history of Presidentin'?

26th April 2011, 10:20 AM	#37
ANTPogo Unique Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 9,334	Originally Posted by randman What part is not true? All of it. Quote: Obama did give up his law license and Michelle went on inactive status. Neither of them "surrendered" their law licenses (a specific terminology used when this accusation first came up to imply that the licenses were given up voluntarily before they could be taken away involuntarily). Barack Obama retired his law license since he wasn't in the active practice of law any more (and, as a career politician, was unlikely to return). He had no disciplinary actions, either past or pending, at the time he retired his license. He could have kept it, if he wanted - his law license was not going to be taken from him if he had decided to keep it. Michelle Obama's license, on the other hand, is just in inactive status. She can reactivate it at any time, and continue to practice law if she wishes. You can read about it all here.