Merged: "Among The Truthers" book to be published in May

[Walter Ego]

Canadian journalist Jonathan Kay's book Among the Truthers: A Journey Through America's Growing Conspiracist Underground will be published next month (the official release date is May 17). He's took his time writing it as I heard about this "forthcoming book" back in 2009 and forgot all about it until I saw it mentioned on the intertubes today.

Review of the book on Slate. Kay's rather sparse blog about the book here.

Kay, a reporter for the National Post, is taken to task by the execrable Anthony J. Hall for his "destructive" reporting about Lesley Hughes, a liberal parliamentary candidate outed as a truther, at a presentation in Walkerton, Ontario on May 24, 2009 in the video below.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

For the masochists among you, there is this almost two hour interview with Kay talking about the book on a Candadian truther radio program, again from back in 2009.

[Orphia Nay]

Print interview with Jonathan Kay on Salon.com.

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/w...ruther_birther

"The second thing is, it's a cult. And you can't disabuse a cult member of their beliefs, because it's central to their identity. Hardcore conspiracy theorists are attached to their conspiracy theories with the same force of conviction that religious adherents are attached to their religions. You can't rationally convince someone not to be a Christian or a Scientologist. That's their identity, that's who they are."

[Walter Ego]

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

Print interview with Jonathan Kay on Salon.com.

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/w...ruther_birther

"The second thing is, it's a cult. And you can't disabuse a cult member of their beliefs, because it's central to their identity. Hardcore conspiracy theorists are attached to their conspiracy theories with the same force of conviction that religious adherents are attached to their religions. You can't rationally convince someone not to be a Christian or a Scientologist. That's their identity, that's who they are."

I'm beginning to suspect this book is not worth reading. A quote from Kay from the Salon interview:

Quote:

There are certain quiet scandals about 9/11 that have nothing to do with any inside job that haven't been talked about very much. One of the interesting things is the collapse of World Trade Center 7, which fell around 5 p.m. on 9/11 because of a fire. Truthers will tell you it collapsed because of an explosion in the building, and they will show you videos and say the footage proves it was controlled demolition. Now, National Institutes of Standards and Technology put out a report explaining how that building fell. It had nothing to do with explosives or anything like that. There was a progressive fire and one of the columns fell off the moorings and the building collapsed. However, it is to me an engineering disgrace that a modern, conventional, steel-frame skyscraper like WTC 7 -- which was a huge building -- collapsed due to what were essentially localized fires on just a few floors. I'm quite shocked it didn't get more attention.

[cantonear1968]

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

I'm beginning to suspect this book is not worth reading. A quote from Kay from the Salon interview:

And this is the tragedy that has been committed by truthers. There are legitimate subjects surrounding the event that should continue to be talked about, but when drowned out by a govt-plan-everybody's-in-on-it-controlled-demolition-stand-down-order, or, 911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB, for short, these real subjects cannot get the merit they deserve.

Were the buildings shoddily constructed? Were the intelligence communities grossly, even criminally, incompetent? Did the Bush Admin give enough credence to warnings, or were they too incompetent?

Sadly, and ironically, the greatest cover up of 9/11 has been indirectly perpetuated by the truthers themselves!

[Corsair 115]

On the TVO program The Agenda which aired earlier Friday evening, there was a panel discussion involving 9/11 conspiracy theories which included Richard Gage, Paul Zarembka, and Barrie Zwicker as guests.

They were on the program to serve as rebuttals to Jonathan Kay's new book, Among the Truthers, in which he explores the 9/11 conspiracy movement and the mindset of those who believe in such conspiracy theories.

The program starts with an interview of Kay, then proceeds to the panel discussion. The episode's web page can be found here. The video of the interview is already available. The link to the video of the panel discussion is on the "The Truth is Out There" tab on the aforementioned web page, however the video has not as yet been made available. It will likely be put up on the site in the next day or two.

[fitzgibbon]

Link's hot. Gotta admire Steve Paikin for keeping a straight face through this.....stuff.

[njslim]

Man that is some compendium of stupid in one place.....

[Foggy of the Fogbow]

Jonathan Kay will be discussing this book on Reality Check Radio next Thursday evening at 9 p.m.

Yours truly will co-host the show. Reality Check Radio focuses mainly on the birthers; we actually know very little about troofers, but this book discusses conspiracy theorists of all stripes.

Book will be released Tuesday.

[JamesB]

I am always amused by how polite and respectful Kay tries to be (very Canadian). He need not bother, if you don't buy into their worldview, you are no different than Dick Cheney in their eyes.

[Brainster]

LOL, loved the bit where Zarembka claims not to be a conspiracy theorist about anything but 9-11, but when the host asks him who killed JFK he goes into how a recent book points out how angry the military industrial complex was at Kennedy. Then he refuses to answer the question of whether Bin Laden is dead.

Note as well that after Kay points out that he no longer believes that Truthers are also Moon Hoax believers, Zarembka and Zwicker deny being Moon Hoax believers.

[Walter Ego]

Originally Posted by Foggy of the Fogbow

Jonathan Kay will be discussing this book on Reality Check Radio next Thursday evening at 9 p.m.

Yours truly will co-host the show. Reality Check Radio focuses mainly on the birthers; we actually know very little about troofers, but this book discusses conspiracy theorists of all stripes.

Book will be released Tuesday.

The link says the show is on Friday, May 20, not Thursday, and the time of the show is 1:00 a.m.

Is Thursday, May 19, the actual date of the live broadcast and in what time zone is that 9:00 p.m. start time?

[Arus808]

For those that are interested, a live blogtalkradio interview will be conducted with Jonthan Kay, author of Among the Truthers. The book explorers the mindset of conspiracy theorists, with a deep look into those that made up the 9/11 Truther movement.

The interview will happen this coming Thursday at 9PM EST
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/rcr


He's also made some comments on Birthers (don't compare 9/11 Truthers to birthers)
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...-birthers.aspx

[Walter Ego]

Originally Posted by Arus808

For those that are interested, a live blogtalkradio interview will be conducted with Jonthan Kay, author of Among the Truthers. The book explorers the mindset of conspiracy theorists, with a deep look into those that made up the 9/11 Truther movement.

The interview will happen this coming Thursday at 9PM EST
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/rcr


He's also made some comments on Birthers (don't compare 9/11 Truthers to birthers)
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...-birthers.aspx

This is the same interview as this one already advertised on this forum as coming on at 9 p.m. on Thursday, May 19.

Note to mods: Could we have a combined thread for these proliferating posts, including this one, about Jonathan Kay and his book?

[Edx]

OMG Right at the end alive hijackers.

It really doesnt matter that Gage got cut off, he's just a wind up toy these days anyway

[Orphia Nay]

Will there be a podcast?

[JAStewart]

Quote:

Among the Truthers: A Journey Through America's Growing Conspiracist Underground

Quote:

the Truthers: A Journey Through America's Growing Conspiracist

Quote:

Truthers: A Journey Through America's Growing

Quote:

Journey Through America's Growing

Quote:

America's Growing

Quote:

Growing

No.

[Scott Jurgenson]

Has anyone started reading this yet? I am tempted to buy this and read my frist book in over a year.

[Nick Terry]

Originally Posted by Scott Jurgenson

Has anyone started reading this yet? I am tempted to buy this and read my frist book in over a year.

I just received my copy and am about half way through. It's a very good piece of journalism. No footnotes, but he does draw on relevant academic studies such as the work of Michael Barkun and Kathryn Olmsted.

The 'truthers' of the title are emblematic of the wide range of conspiracy theories discussed/acknowledged; in the first half of the book he discusses Birthers and WND (in some depth), Tea Partiers (not labelling all of them as CTs, but showing how they connect to the radical right fringe a la the Birch Society of yore), and given a fairly standard account of the origins of conspiracism and populism. I.e. Robison, Barruel, anti-Masonry, the Protocols, turn-of-the-century populism etc. But he's also mentioned HAARP, anti-fluoridisation, written pen-portraits of Alex Jones, Webster Tarpley, and various other assorted nuts.

Some of the insights will be *very* familiar to JREFers as they're standard observations. Some points might be disputable - eg his claim that Truthers are nonviolent.

As a summing-up of the phenomenon, this is waaay better than Aaronovitch's book, but less amusing than Matt Taibbi's Great Derangement. The publishing industry puts out several books a year written by journalists which document contemporary American insanity from a wide variety of perspectives and angles, and this is one of the better ones.

I'm just about to start reading his chapter of psychological profiles of different conspiracist 'types'. The first one is 'The Midlife Crisis Case' and he has opted for Richard Gage. Muahahaha.

[Foggy of the Fogbow]

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

The link says the show is on Friday, May 20, not Thursday, and the time of the show is 1:00 a.m.

Is Thursday, May 19, the actual date of the live broadcast and in what time zone is that 9:00 p.m. start time?

It's definitely tomorrow night, 9 p.m. Eastern (New York time). The link I gave you is good, even though it says 5/20 -- that's the date the show is expected to be posted so you can download it if you missed it.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/rcr/201...ty-check-radio

However, I just had a quick exchange of emails with Mr. Kay, and he can't call in until 9:30. Until then, we'll probably discuss Jerome Corsi's new book, Where's The Birth Certificate? and other happenings in the tiny Republic of Birtherstan.

Call in number is (347) 324-5546, if you'd like to ask questions. I'll be screening callers, so just tell me you're from the Randi forum and I'll try to get you on the air.

[Walter Ego]

Originally Posted by Nick Terry

The 'truthers' of the title are emblematic of the wide range of conspiracy theories discussed/acknowledged; in the first half of the book he discusses Birthers and WND….

WND? Did you mean WMD?

If it was WMD, how would that fit in with conspiracy theories?

Originally Posted by Nick Terry

As a summing-up of the phenomenon, this is waaay better than Aaronovitch's book, but less amusing than Matt Taibbi's Great Derangement.

You can’t beat Taibbi for knife-welding humor. Truthers were just a sub-plot of The Great Derangement, and he’s moved on to cover the sharks on Wall Street. He did do some great stuff online about the TM, however, including an imagined and riotously funny planning session for 9/11 between Cheney, Silverstein, et al, showing the absurdity of pulling of such a complex “inside job” without being exposed. It would be great if this web material were included, along with the truther stuff from The Great Derangement, in a separate book.

[Sam.I.Am]

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

WND? Did you mean WMD?

If it was WMD, how would that fit in with conspiracy theories?

World Net Daily is Birther Central. Don't say that you weren't warned.

http://www.wnd.com/

[Nick Terry]

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

WND? Did you mean WMD?

If it was WMD, how would that fit in with conspiracy theories?

WorldNutDaily or whatever it's called. Birther Central. You know....

Quote:

You can’t beat Taibbi for knife-welding humor. Truthers were just a sub-plot of The Great Derangement, and he’s moved on to cover the sharks on Wall Street. He did do some great stuff online about the TM, however, including an imagined and riotously funny planning session for 9/11 between Cheney, Silverstein, et al, showing the absurdity of pulling of such a complex “inside job” without being exposed. It would be great if this web material were included, along with the truther stuff from The Great Derangement, in a separate book.

Or someone could put together a 9/11 anti-conspiracy anthology and lead off with those pieces... Taibbi's not written *that* much about Truthers, nor have most other commentators, but there are some extremely punchy articles out there.

[Walter Ego]

Originally Posted by Nick Terry

Taibbi's not written *that* much about Truthers, nor have most other commentators....

And here, from Taibbi, is the reason why.

Quote:

[M]ost journalists I know won't go near the 9/11 Truth issue more than once, if at all. On the one hand most reporters don't think it's a serious enough issue to bother with twice, and on the other hand nobody wants to deal with the torrent of abuse that comes with trying -- it's like shoving your head into a beehive. "I'd rather be poked in the eye with a sharp stick than write about that **** again," is how one columnist put it to me.

[Walter Ego]

Originally Posted by Foggy of the Fogbow

Jonathan Kay will be discussing this book on Reality Check Radio next Thursday evening at 9 p.m.

Yours truly will co-host the show. Reality Check Radio focuses mainly on the birthers; we actually know very little about troofers, but this book discusses conspiracy theorists of all stripes.

Book will be released Tuesday.

*Bump*

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/rcr/201...ty-check-radio

According to the host, Kay will call in at 9:30 PM EDT.

[Foggy of the Fogbow]

It was a really good show; you can download it here.

Mr. Kay joined us about half an hour into the show. We did have one caller from JREF, and he was interesting and informative. One of my anti-birthers says:

Quote:

Good interview. He was really in tune and understood the conspiracy mindset. I followed 9/11 trutherism for along time (JREF as well) and the names he threw out of the leaders in the 911 movement made me smile and also comparing them to those in the birther movement.

I have too much on my plate running the Fogbow and my business to really participate much on JREF, but I'll be around now and then.

[Walter Ego]

Originally Posted by Foggy of the Fogbow

It was a really good show; you can download it here.

Mr. Kay joined us about half an hour into the show. We did have one caller from JREF, and he was interesting and informative.

I was the JREF caller. Kay comes on at about the 33:00 mark and I called in at about 1:21 and, somewhat nervously, got in a plug for JREF. Kay knew about JREF but seemed unaware that there is a conspiracy forum and 9/11 conspiracy sub-forum on the site.

I've only spot checked the show but will put the embedded player on my blog. Much of the talk was about birthers but Kay did have some interesting things to say about the psychology and attitudes of conspiracy believers in general.

[bje]

Oops. Already posted.

[Oz1976]

Originally Posted by cantonear1968

And this is the tragedy that has been committed by truthers. There are legitimate subjects surrounding the event that should continue to be talked about, but when drowned out by a govt-plan-everybody's-in-on-it-controlled-demolition-stand-down-order, or, 911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB, for short, these real subjects cannot get the merit they deserve.

Were the buildings shoddily constructed? Were the intelligence communities grossly, even criminally, incompetent? Did the Bush Admin give enough credence to warnings, or were they too incompetent?

Sadly, and ironically, the greatest cover up of 9/11 has been indirectly perpetuated by the truthers themselves!

Could not agree more with this.

[RedIbis]

Oh dear, not a very encouraging review:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/art...122765389.html

What's interesting about the criticism of Kay's screed is how similar it is to tactics that show up right here in this sub-forum, to whit,

Quote:

There is an extremely ugly side to Kay's bandying about labels and motives. Every few pages he lumps everyone who disagrees with him into a grab-bag of characteristics that he claims are shared with proven anti-Semites.

In fact, the characteristics -- such as people doing their research carefully and large groups breaking into smaller groups -- are shared among many individuals and groups. Kay's cheap trick is the worst form of guilt by association.

[1337m4n]

Originally Posted by RedIbis

Oh dear, not a very encouraging review:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/art...122765389.html

What's interesting about the criticism of Kay's screed is how similar it is to tactics that show up right here in this sub-forum, to whit,

It appears to be a review filled with typical Truther strawmen:

Quote:

Kay's fundamental premise is that all 9/11 Truthers must be wrong, because it is inconceivable that the U.S. government would ever be involved in anything illegal

I've seen this exact strawman almost verbatim so many times that I recognized it as such almost immediately. I don't hold out much hope that any word of this "review" is trustworthy.

Serious reviewers usually provide entire quotes from whatever they're reviewing in order to back up their point. Near as I can tell, the only times the sentence "it is inconceivable that the U.S. government would ever be involved in anything illegal" has ever been uttered, have been Truthers manufacturing strawmen.

[Aitch]

Just heard a short item on the radio, with Jonathan Kay being interviewed about his new book - Among the Truthers: A Journey Through America's Growing Conspiracist Underground. Came across as an intelligent, sensible person (for a Canadian journalist ) and I think the book is going on my wish list - though I'll probably wait for the paperback.

Anyway, I thought I'd check the book out on Amazon UK. Only two reviews so far - but they are quite amusing. Though not as rabid as some of the 'reviews' on the US site.

[Childlike Empress]

I'm listening to a debate between Kay and Kevin Barrett, who had him on his radio show a couple of days ago. So far it's heated but civilized, and very interesting. Kudos to both for talking to each other, even ninety instead of the usual sixty minutes. Audio here.

[Orphia Nay]

Jonathan Kay was on NPR radio on August 25 2011 with James Meigs (Editor in chief of Popular Mechanics) for an hour. Kevin Ryan also spoke for a while.

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/08/25/c...rorist-attacks

I haven't listened to it yet, but it sounds promising, especially since there are hundreds of truthers whining about the show in the comments section.

[MaGZ]

Originally Posted by cantonear1968

And this is the tragedy that has been committed by truthers. There are legitimate subjects surrounding the event that should continue to be talked about, but when drowned out by a govt-plan-everybody's-in-on-it-controlled-demolition-stand-down-order, or, 911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB, for short, these real subjects cannot get the merit they deserve.

Were the buildings shoddily constructed? Were the intelligence communities grossly, even criminally, incompetent? Did the Bush Admin give enough credence to warnings, or were they too incompetent?

Sadly, and ironically, the greatest cover up of 9/11 has been indirectly perpetuated by the truthers themselves!

The biggest promoter of Trutherism is likely the US government itself.

[LSSBB]

Originally Posted by MaGZ

The biggest promoter of Trutherism is likely the US government itself.

Conjecture, proof please.

[Miragememories]

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

Jonathan Kay was on NPR radio on August 25 2011 with James Meigs (Editor in chief of Popular Mechanics) for an hour. Kevin Ryan also spoke for a while.

http://onpoint.wbur.org/2011/08/25/c...rorist-attacks

I haven't listened to it yet, but it sounds promising, especially since there are hundreds of truthers whining about the show in the comments section.

Jonathan Kay dismisses 9/11 Truth supporters as nothing more than a bunch of seniors who do not understand computer technology and have too much time on their hands.

MM

[dc1971]

Originally Posted by Miragememories

Jonathan Kay dismisses 9/11 Truth supporters as nothing more than a bunch of seniors who do not understand computer technology and have too much time on their hands.

MM

Interesting.

It's funny, I missed the part where there is any mention of "bunch of seniors", or maybe I just wasn't paying attention?

DC