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Old 8th May 2011, 08:28 AM   #121
Anders Lindman
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Originally Posted by Greedo View Post
Quoting myself here







What could possibly make such a sound? Hmm, maybe a large passenger plane hitting a tower at 504 kts?


You do realize sound travels slower than light, right?
There is a slower bang before the sharp bang. That's the fireball explosion! It can be tricky to measure times in the video since I believe the frame rate has been slowed down for the start of the fireball explosion to make it look more convincing. Plus sound of jet engine added. The distance from the camera to the tower should be fairly easy to calculate because of the camera angle. The camera is positioned close to the building, and the sound delay is noticeable but less than a second.
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Old 8th May 2011, 08:31 AM   #122
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Anders - perhaps this is just an oversight, but you seemed to have bypassed a question I asked yesterday:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
I found some strange things in the reported radar data. And how many radar stations have in fact produced any recorded radar data of the alleged second plane? Thousands of witnesses? I doubt it. The phone calls have been shown to be possibly fakes. Wreckage parts suspiciously looking as having been planted.
How so?
How should the wreckage have looked any different?
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Old 8th May 2011, 08:32 AM   #123
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So you think a heavy metal object rammed through a building at the speed of 504 kts is a silent process? Dude...
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Old 8th May 2011, 08:36 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
...


How so?
How should the wreckage have looked any different?

Beats me... He's probably gonna argue that it's not damaged enough. Just like the tires teh phisiks and teh thwoofers
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Old 8th May 2011, 08:41 AM   #125
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Anders, how would you assess the relative difficulties of faking 9/11 versus faking the pictures of the couple of aircraft parts you stumbled upon?

(Not that anything is necessarily faked, as you haven't established that any anomaly exists. I'm merely pointing out your flagrant bias when choosing whether to accept or reject evidence.)
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Old 8th May 2011, 08:47 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Greedo View Post
Anders, if you look at the "old design of the nozzles", you see that the nozzles are longer than on the pic you showed earlier. I'd say it is very likely they updated that part for the newer model.
You're right. I had missed that.

Maybe there is even a small difference between the part in the brochure and the engine part on Murray Street:



Difficult to tell perhaps. They could be the same length. I think at least the nozzles on the Murray St. engine are not shorter than in the paper specs, maybe equal size.
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Old 8th May 2011, 08:49 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Anders - perhaps this is just an oversight, but you seemed to have bypassed a question I asked yesterday:



How so?
How should the wreckage have looked any different?
The jet engine found on Murray Street looks like something from a junkyard rather than from a real crash.
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Old 8th May 2011, 08:50 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Greedo View Post
So you think a heavy metal object rammed through a building at the speed of 504 kts is a silent process? Dude...
What heavy metal object? There were no planes hitting any building.
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Old 8th May 2011, 08:54 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
The jet engine found on Murray Street looks like something from a junkyard rather than from a real crash.
So you're an expert at aircrash parts and junkyards now?

Gee, let me bask in your astounding breadth of knowledge and experience for a moment.

....

Ok, I'm done.


So does this mean you retract your original claim the engine came from a 737? How does this count as "winning?"
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Old 8th May 2011, 08:54 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
The jet engine found on Murray Street looks like something from a junkyard rather than from a real crash.
I get it. You were talking out of your posterior. Why not just say "I don't know - I made that up"?

Much easier, and since we'll never meet, it can't be due to embarrassment.

You pretty much made up your mind the entirety of 9/11 is faked because you can't tell what kind of engine wound up on the street?
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Old 8th May 2011, 08:57 AM   #131
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Forget it -- he's found a loose thread and will pull on it until his sock unravels completely, leaving him barefooted. Then he'll bitch about the poor quality of socks these days.

Anders, the design and construction of aircraft parts ARE NOT set in concrete, and continue to evolve AFTER the plane in in production. Things get better with time, technology improves, shortcomings become apparent, and fixes are made. I work on fairly common aircraft instruments from one company, and while externally they are the same, internally I have to account for no less than eight separate alterations of internal components. The end user NEVER sees the difference, but I do.

Engines are a component that is just PRIME for improvements, if for no other reasons than they are probably the most labor-intensive part of the planes to maintain, and consume vast amounts of fuel (which is probably the single most expensive consumable entity in flight). Would it surprise me to discover that an airplane had engines that weren't identical to each other? Not one damned bit.

As far as the pilots are concerned, as long as the engines perform the same and react the same to throttle settings, the pilots don't care if they have a Dash-1 version on one wing and a Dash-4 on the other. The only people who care are the mechanics who work on them.

Now, you show us a pretty poor picture of an engine part whose engine has disassembled itself in a high-velocity impact, shown TOTALLY out of context in relation to whatever other parts surrounded itself in the final assembly without any clue as to what orientation it might have been in, or what the investigators may have removed or dismantled from the piece during their investigations, and then talk about a hypothetical "engine cannon" that was somehow smuggled into the WTC.

You're stacking layer upon layer of improbable logistical requirements to support your house of cards, where in reality you need to start looking for what is simpler and more likely. I've seen this happen all too often, where a person has invested too much in a particular theory and is unwilling to step back, look at the actual facts of the situation, and realize that it just ain't happening.

Boeing itself has said the engine in question is interchangeable with others in the 767. This is Boeing here -- you know, the folks who designed and built the plane?

I think you need to quit waving and flapping over the issue and start checking for reds under your bed. Even the small amount of evidence presented here has handed your hiney back to you.

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Old 8th May 2011, 08:57 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
What heavy metal object? There were no planes hitting any building.
A) what caused the building columns to bend inward in the exact shape of a jet airliner of the correct type including wing camber at speed and under load

2) What method was used to deliver the thousands of gallons of jet fuel seen exploding just after impact

furthermore) Why does every single one of these video and camcorder shots show an airplane hitting the WTC?
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Old 8th May 2011, 08:59 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
So you're an expert at aircrash parts and junkyards now?

Gee, let me bask in your astounding breadth of knowledge and experience for a moment.

....

Ok, I'm done.


So does this mean you retract your original claim the engine came from a 737? How does this count as "winning?"
I'm not sure yet whether the engine is of the right or wrong kind. What IF it's the wrong kind. Then it's time to stay low for a while. Otherwise it's easy to upset a lot of people.
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:01 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
I'm not sure yet whether the engine is of the right or wrong kind. What IF it's the wrong kind. Then it's time to stay low for a while. Otherwise it's easy to upset a lot of people.
You're not sure of the central fact of your claim? Weird.
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:01 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
I get it. You were talking out of your posterior. Why not just say "I don't know - I made that up"?

Much easier, and since we'll never meet, it can't be due to embarrassment.

You pretty much made up your mind the entirety of 9/11 is faked because you can't tell what kind of engine wound up on the street?
Actually, if it turns out that it is the right kind of engine, I still believe in the no planes theory.
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:03 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
You're not sure of the central fact of your claim? Weird.
The mistake I made was to believe too much in the Rense article. Now I doubt that the cooling duct assembly for a CFM56 looks like that with those kinds of bent nozzles. Or could they? Do all jet engines look very similar?
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:03 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
The jet engine found on Murray Street looks like something from a junkyard rather than from a real crash.


Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
What heavy metal object? There were no planes hitting any building.
Oh silly me, I had forgotten! Silly sheeple me!
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:04 AM   #138
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So can you address the following questions based on your initial premis?

1) what method was used to deliver the engine to Church and Murray St.

2) How is it that all the clips in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc2tfVuaSrg show an airplane hitting a tower

3) and many of those clips show a projectile emerging from the building and flying to Church and Murray street, with a spiralling motion?
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:07 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
Actually, if it turns out that it is the right kind of engine, I still believe in the no planes theory.
Is this how you will "win this time?" By allowing your OP to be completely debunked but driving on regardless?

Please don't breed.
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:07 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by Beanbag View Post
Anders, the design and construction of aircraft parts ARE NOT set in concrete, and continue to evolve AFTER the plane in in production.
Ok, yes that's true. The date for the engine parts must be taken into consideration. Yikes. BUT if it can be shown that the JT9D-7R4D engine doesn't have anything near the look of the cooling duct assembly found, then that's a prove of the engine being of wrong kind.
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:08 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
So can you address the following questions based on your initial premis?

1) what method was used to deliver the engine to Church and Murray St.

2) How is it that all the clips in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc2tfVuaSrg show an airplane hitting a tower

3) and many of those clips show a projectile emerging from the building and flying to Church and Murray street, with a spiralling motion?
See previous posts in this thread.
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:09 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
So can you address the following questions based on your initial premis?

1) what method was used to deliver the engine to Church and Murray St.

2) How is it that all the clips in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc2tfVuaSrg show an airplane hitting a tower

3) and many of those clips show a projectile emerging from the building and flying to Church and Murray street, with a spiralling motion?


1) Anders thinks there were explosives "behind" the engine, wich was placed in the tower and catapulted to murray street

2) I'm willing to bet my butt that Anders will say CGI.

3) See 1)

Damn, "debating" twoofers is fun endless fun
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:10 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
It can be tricky to measure times in the video since I believe the frame rate has been slowed down for the start of the fireball explosion to make it look more convincing. Plus sound of jet engine added.
What you're saying here is that, since the evidence contradicts your theory, you assume that the evidence has been doctored. With that in mind, what's the point in asking for evidence that disproves this particular theory? Why wouldn't you just assume that this evidence has also been doctored?
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:12 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
... BUT if it can be shown that the JT9D-7R4D engine doesn't have anything near the look of the cooling duct assembly found, then that's a prove of the engine being of wrong kind.

Yes, Anders. Yes. We've established that. I think on... Page 1? The problem is, it can't be shown.

ETA:
Quote:
What you're saying here is that, since the evidence contradicts your theory, you assume that the evidence has been doctored. With that in mind, what's the point in asking for evidence that disproves this particular theory? Why wouldn't you just assume that this evidence has also been doctored?
He's done that already in this thread. Twoofer perception of reality ftw.

Last edited by Greedo; 8th May 2011 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:14 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
So can you address the following questions based on your initial premis?

1) what method was used to deliver the engine to Church and Murray St.

2) How is it that all the clips in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc2tfVuaSrg show an airplane hitting a tower

3) and many of those clips show a projectile emerging from the building and flying to Church and Murray street, with a spiralling motion?
Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
See previous posts in this thread.
No, you didn't. And even if you did address ALL those points, they're all scattered about. Please, just summarize your thoughts on these 3 points so we know where we stand.
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:15 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by Ray Brady View Post
What you're saying here is that, since the evidence contradicts your theory, you assume that the evidence has been doctored. With that in mind, what's the point in asking for evidence that disproves this particular theory? Why wouldn't you just assume that this evidence has also been doctored?
The evidence fits my theory! Listen to the sharp bang in this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNRatnY5ymM Is that the sound of a plane crashing into a building? No way. It's the sound of explosives used to shoot out a part of a jet engine plus a landing gear out from the tower.
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:16 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
No, you didn't. And even if you did address ALL those points, they're all scattered about. Please, just summarize your thoughts on these 3 points so we know where we stand.

1) what method was used to deliver the engine to Church and Murray St.

Answer: Explosives.

2) How is it that all the clips in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc2tfVuaSrg show an airplane hitting a tower

Answer: Computer graphics.

3) and many of those clips show a projectile emerging from the building and flying to Church and Murray street, with a spiralling motion?

Answer: Explosives.
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:18 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by edx View Post

my first question would be why do you think these conspirators would intentionally plant an engine that wasn't from a boeing 767 in the streets in order to fake evidence that a boeing 767 crashed .... Especially when they know people will take pictures of it and then someone could just stand up and say that it couldn't be from that plane?

bump
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:19 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
Actually, if it turns out that it is the right kind of engine, I still believe in the no planes theory.
I say this with all sincerity - seek help.
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:19 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Greedo View Post
Yes, Anders. Yes. We've established that. I think on... Page 1? The problem is, it can't be shown.
Of course it can be shown. Any expert on this would be able to immediately either show a part that looks the same or report that no such part exists or have existed for the JT9D-7R4D.
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:20 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
The evidence fits my theory! Listen to the sharp bang in this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNRatnY5ymM Is that the sound of a plane crashing into a building? No way. It's the sound of explosives used to shoot out a part of a jet engine plus a landing gear out from the tower.
1) how much explosive would be required to accelerate a jet engine to 425 mph (my estimate, back-figured from the flight time to Church and Murray while falling 80 stories)

2) what method woud be used to impart a spiralling motion to that jet engine?

3) how would you control the explosion timing to EXACTLY mimic a jet engine travelling through a building after impact?

4) Please explain the inward-bend of the columns at point of impact

5) You still haven't addressed teh many clips in the "all known footage" video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc2tfVuaSrg
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:22 AM   #152
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Anders - you realize that live TV can't be modified, right?

EVEN IF IT COULD

You do realize there were untold THOUSANDS of people on the ground, (hundreds of thousands?) and in their offices looking at the trade centers when the 2nd plane came in, right?
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:22 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Edx View Post
bump
Because the perpetrators perhaps could only get hold of an older version of the jet engine part on the black market. Recently I have found that many such engines are for sale, so it's probably no problem to get hold of the right type, but anyway.
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:22 AM   #154
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Quote:
2) How is it that all the clips in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc2tfVuaSrg show an airplane hitting a tower

Answer: Computer graphics.
This is not addressing the question. This is waving at it as your ride past on your tricycle.
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:26 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Anders - you realize that live TV can't be modified, right?

EVEN IF IT COULD

You do realize there were untold THOUSANDS of people on the ground, (hundreds of thousands?) and in their offices looking at the trade centers when the 2nd plane came in, right?
As explained in September Clues only 5 major television networks showed the second plane hitting the WTC live, and with very crude 2D graphics planes inserted into the live (delayed with about 5 seconds to allow for synchronization with the fireball explosion) video feeds. So it was the video feeds to those networks that were hijacked, not real planes.

Find me an eyewitness report of the second plane hitting the South Tower and I will take a look at it (and claim it is a false witness report ).
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:26 AM   #156
Ray Brady
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Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
The evidence fits my theory!
You just said "I believe the frame rate has been slowed down for the start of the fireball explosion to make it look more convincing. Plus sound of jet engine added."

If the evidence fits your theory, why do you believe it's been altered?
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:27 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
1) what method was used to deliver the engine to Church and Murray St.

Answer: Explosives.

2) How is it that all the clips in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc2tfVuaSrg show an airplane hitting a tower

Answer: Computer graphics.

3) and many of those clips show a projectile emerging from the building and flying to Church and Murray street, with a spiralling motion?

Answer: Explosives.

YES YES YES! Me was right Twoofer predictability - priceless.



Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
I say this with all sincerity - seek help.
^^THIS^^THIS^^THIS^^THIS^^THIS^^THIS^^THIS^^THIS^^ THIS^^
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:28 AM   #158
Ray Brady
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Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
As explained in September Clues only 5 major television networks showed the second plane hitting the WTC
"Only" 5 major television networks? How many do you think should have been showing it?
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:28 AM   #159
ApolloGnomon
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Originally Posted by Anders Lindman View Post
As explained in September Clues only 5 major television networks showed the second plane hitting the WTC, and with very crude 2D graphics planes inserted into the live (delayed with about 5 seconds to allow for synchronization with the fireball explosion) video feeds. So it was the video feeds to those networks that were hijacked, not real planes.

Find me an eyewitness report of the second plane hitting the South Tower and I will take a look at it (and claim it is a false witness report ).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc2tfVuaSrg show an airplane hitting a tower

many of these clips were taken by personal cameras in the hands of the citizens of lower manhattan.

Please choose from the following:
1) All clips were surrendered to "them" for modification

2) All occupants of lower manhattan belong to "them"

Might I suggest taking a few minutes and ACTUALLY WATCHING the video I've provided?
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Last edited by ApolloGnomon; 8th May 2011 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 8th May 2011, 09:29 AM   #160
Anders Lindman
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Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon View Post
This is not addressing the question. This is waving at it as your ride past on your tricycle.
First I want to establish if the jet engine found near ground zero is of the wrong type or not. Because it would be interesting if it is of the wrong type.
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