[Merged] Vaccine/autism CT discussion - Page 9

fullflavormenthol · 31st May 2011, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

So what internet source would you recommend as a source? theman.com? NIST.com? Bigpharma.com Baptist.com? Cheney.com? Rumsfeld.com

If JoAnn started a site for ideas to make money would it be likely that most would be bogus?

Yeah...nice, but seriously I am not going to take medical history from a site like rumormillnews. How about a site about medicine and medical history that doesn't have the word rumor in the name, and isn't a conspiracy theory website.

But given that I am a baptist pharmacist Cheney/Rumsfeld supporter who is the man and is in league with the NIST....something about JoAnn too. I don't know, anything to ignore the fact of rumormillnews being a less than legitimate source.

Safe-Keeper · 31st May 2011, 08:37 PM

Quote:

So what internet source would you recommend as a source? theman.com? NIST.com? Bigpharma.com Baptist.com? Cheney.com? Rumsfeld.com

Quote:

If JoAnn started a site for ideas to make money would it be likely that most would be bogus?

For the third time, you don't measure the worth of web sites just by looking at who founded them, for what purpose, whether they disagree with you, or how much money they make. You do research. As a matter of fact, start by reading up on the scientific method and how it's the best tool we have.

Clayton Moore · 31st May 2011, 09:14 PM

[quote=TSR;7238553]

[url="http://www.cdc.gov/features/rubella/"]From 1963-1965, a rubella epidemic swept across the globe. In the United States alone, there were about 11,000 fetal deaths and 20,000 infants born with congenital rubella syndrome, a group of birth defects that can occur in an infant when its mother is infected with rubella during pregnancy.[/URL

Quote:

In young children, rubella is usually mild, with few noticeable symptoms. They may feel feverish and have a sore throat.

Quote:

Rubella Is Dangerous for Unborn Babies

Quote:

MMR Vaccine: Preventing Rubella Disease and Birth Defects since the 1960s

Quote:

* the first dose at 12–15 months of age and
* the second dose before entering school, at 4–6 years of age.

What did we read? Rubella is mild with children.

Rubella is dangerous to unborn babies. That means the danger lies with women at child bearing age.

So why are year old babies getting a Rubella vaccination?

Tolls · 1st June 2011, 01:48 AM

Originally Posted by fullflavormenthol

I'm going to go out on a limb and question the legitimacy of rumormillnews as a source.

Well, it's not entirely incorrect.
Britain did suffer its worst smallpox outbreak after compulsory vaccination was introduced. It was introduced in 1853, and the worldwide epidemic was in 1871/72. So 20 years, not 40.

The vaccine didn't prevent you getting the disease, quite often. It did reduce the chance of death. There are 20th century statistics showing something like a reduction from 40% to 10%. No idea how this compares with the figures for the 1870s, though.

Travis · 1st June 2011, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

Originally Posted by TSR

[url="http://www.cdc.gov/features/rubella/"]From 1963-1965, a rubella epidemic swept across the globe. In the United States alone, there were about 11,000 fetal deaths and 20,000 infants born with congenital rubella syndrome, a group of birth defects that can occur in an infant when its mother is infected with rubella during pregnancy.[/URL

What did we read? Rubella is mild with children.

Rubella is dangerous to unborn babies. That means the danger lies with women at child bearing age.

So why are year old babies getting a Rubella vaccination?

Was this a serious question?

Tolls · 1st June 2011, 03:15 AM

Originally Posted by Travis

Was this a serious question?

I think we can safely conclude that CM has no idea how vaccines work...CM just knows they're eeeevil.

excaza · 1st June 2011, 03:57 AM

Originally Posted by ladmo

The false dychotomy of assuming the spreadingof a disease if not inoculated is notated. My child was allergic to certain vaccines due to an anaphylaxis condition.

There have always been waivers for those who are physically unable to handle vaccinations. Herd immunity will do a decent job of protecting them.

Quote:

There was no way I would give him the required vaccine just so a paranoid condition could be satisfied. He never contracted any of the diseases the vaccines were targeting...

And another anti-vaxxer who doesn't understand how or why vaccines work. This trend is...disturbing.

excaza · 1st June 2011, 04:07 AM

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

Measles, Chicken Pox, and Rubella were never deadly diseases in the 50s or after doctors started washing their hands

Swing and a miss. All three of these are airborne diseases, washing your hands is going to do jack diddly.

Grassy Knowlington · 1st June 2011, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore
I know personally the parents of maybe 10 young children including my granddaughters. 3 of the little boys are autistic. ....

Originally Posted by Grassy Knowlington

I am sorry to hear that. Are they diagnosed as Autistic or Aspergers? There's quite a spectrum from a mildly Aspergers condition to what is usually labelled Autistic.

CM - I do not wish to be intrusive but I have a child who was diagnosed Aspergers (at one point Autism was considered but then dismissed) and would like to hear your experience.

kookbreaker · 1st June 2011, 04:52 AM

You gotta love the anti-vaxxer attitude of "if it isn't deadly, it isn't a problem!". I mean, who cares about impotence, crippling joints, pnuemonia, deafness....

excaza · 1st June 2011, 04:53 AM

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin...ames/read/8803

This is an incredibly awful article.

Travis · 1st June 2011, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

You gotta love the anti-vaxxer attitude of "if it isn't deadly, it isn't a problem!". I mean, who cares about impotence, crippling joints, pnuemonia, deafness....

Hey, let's face it, the flu sucks even if it doesn't cripple you. You miss a couple weeks of work and you are wishing for death while stuck in bed.

Think of the all the productivity in the economy lost to things like the flu too.

ladmo · 1st June 2011, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by excaza

There have always been waivers for those who are physically unable to handle vaccinations. Herd immunity will do a decent job of protecting them.

And another anti-vaxxer who doesn't understand how or why vaccines work. This trend is...disturbing.

Actually, your comment is beyond disturbing. I am going to put my son's life at risk??

Edited by kmortis:

Removed personalization

I will not sacrifice my son for anything.

Edited by kmortis:

Removed personalization

Your inference that you have a particular set of knowledge is misplaced arrogance. I elect to have a choice, not a mandate by you or anybody else.

I never said that vaccines create anything beyond what would affect my son. Is the general public paranoid? Yes, if the public feels vaccines are necessary and should be forced on people who don't want it.

Question: should my son die just because you want him to have a vaccine?

ladmo · 1st June 2011, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by excaza

There have always been waivers for those who are physically unable to handle vaccinations. Herd immunity will do a decent job of protecting them.

You do not know what you are talking about... there was no waiver.

Dave Rogers · 1st June 2011, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by ladmo

Actually, your comment is beyond disturbing. I am going to put my son's life at risk??

Edited by kmortis:

Removed personalization

I will not sacrifice my son for anything.

Edited by kmortis:

Removed personalization

Your inference that you have a particular set of knowledge is misplaced arrogance. I elect to have a choice, not a mandate by you or anybody else.

I never said that vaccines create anything beyond what would affect my son. Is the general public paranoid? Yes, if the public feels vaccines are necessary and should be forced on people who don't want it.

Question: should my son die just because you want him to have a vaccine?

You seem to have read the exact opposite of what excaza posted, which is that your son should be waived mandatory vaccination due to his physical inability to handle it, but would be protected by herd immunity in the event of those who were not at risk having had their vaccinations. In effect, it's the mandatory vaccination of others that's protecting your son, and the efforts of anti-vaccination campaigners that are placing him at risk.

Dave

Travis · 1st June 2011, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by ladmo

Actually, your comment is beyond disturbing. I am going to put my son's life at risk??

Edited by kmortis:

Removed personalization

I will not sacrifice my son for anything.

Edited by kmortis:

Removed personalization

Your inference that you have a particular set of knowledge is misplaced arrogance. I elect to have a choice, not a mandate by you or anybody else.

I never said that vaccines create anything beyond what would affect my son. Is the general public paranoid? Yes, if the public feels vaccines are necessary and should be forced on people who don't want it.

Question: should my son die just because you want him to have a vaccine?

Um, he was commenting on the fact that your son should not be vaccinated because of the allergies. This is a known problem. Now if a very large percentage of the people around your son are vaccinated then your son is protected even though he is not. That's called Herd Immunity. But if the percentage of people being vaccinated falls then your son is now at risk. This is why it is important that we vaccinate all the people that don't have the allergic reactions to the vaccines.

aggle-rithm · 1st June 2011, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by ladmo

I never said that vaccines create anything beyond what would affect my son. Is the general public paranoid? Yes, if the public feels vaccines are necessary and should be forced on people who don't want it.

Question: should my son die just because you want him to have a vaccine?

Question: Should millions of children die because you don't think vaccines are necessary?

excaza · 1st June 2011, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by ladmo

Actually, your comment is beyond disturbing. I am going to put my son's life at risk??

Edited by kmortis:

Removed personalization

I will not sacrifice my son for anything.

Edited by kmortis:

Removed personalization

Your inference that you have a particular set of knowledge is misplaced arrogance. I elect to have a choice, not a mandate by you or anybody else.

I never said that vaccines create anything beyond what would affect my son. Is the general public paranoid? Yes, if the public feels vaccines are necessary and should be forced on people who don't want it.

Question: should my son die just because you want him to have a vaccine?

Edited by kmortis:

Removed personalization

I have no idea where you got any of this from what I said.

excaza · 1st June 2011, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by ladmo

You do not know what you are talking about... there was no waiver.

There is a waiver. I've gotten one, nimrod. Seems like you didn't try too hard.

Travis · 1st June 2011, 10:11 AM

I've never heard of them forcing a child that has allergic or other types of reactions to vaccines to still be inoculated.

fullflavormenthol · 1st June 2011, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Tolls

Well, it's not entirely incorrect.
Britain did suffer its worst smallpox outbreak after compulsory vaccination was introduced. It was introduced in 1853, and the worldwide epidemic was in 1871/72. So 20 years, not 40.

The vaccine didn't prevent you getting the disease, quite often. It did reduce the chance of death. There are 20th century statistics showing something like a reduction from 40% to 10%. No idea how this compares with the figures for the 1870s, though.

And I would not have written anything had it come from a legitimate source. Being wrapped in the conspiracy langauge that it was, I was taking issue with that. Good information doesn't have to be taken from bad sources.

excaza · 1st June 2011, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by ladmo

You do not know what you are talking about... there was no waiver.

http://www.vaclib.org/exemption.htm

At the bottom of this page (don't bother reading the rest of the content, I know you won't like it) are links for exemption forms for every US State, along with the relevant state statutes allowing for the waiver.

That took 2 seconds of googling. Research is hard.

Clayton Moore · 1st June 2011, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by excaza

Swing and a miss. All three of these are airborne diseases, washing your hands is going to do jack diddly.

Washing hands was a time in the history of medicine reference.

excaza · 1st June 2011, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

Washing hands was a time in the history of medicine reference.

Cool. Will hand washing prevent TB?

ladmo · 1st June 2011, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by excaza

http://www.vaclib.org/exemption.htm

At the bottom of this page (don't bother reading the rest of the content, I know you won't like it) are links for exemption forms for every US State, along with the relevant state statutes allowing for the waiver.

That took 2 seconds of googling. Research is hard.

Don't get smug... now guess the time frame that my child was in school. My statement still stands.

Arisia · 1st June 2011, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by excaza

http://www.vaclib.org/exemption.htm

At the bottom of this page (don't bother reading the rest of the content, I know you won't like it) are links for exemption forms for every US State, along with the relevant state statutes allowing for the waiver.

That took 2 seconds of googling. Research is hard.

I figured there'd be a clearinghouse for such information on the internet for parents of vaccine-allergic children to use (my daughter has no allergies, thank goodness, so she's had every childhood vaccination available, even the ones not mandated by the state of Massachusetts), because it doesn't make sense to me that any of the 50 states would require vaccination for children that are allergic.
Of course, these days, I hope it's an uphill battle getting an exemption/waiver for anything besides proven medical necessity (you can get them for religious reasons, too, if I'm not mistaken), since herd immunity is on iffy footing in some places right now. For instance, I know there are quite a few cases of Measles in the Boston metro area right now.

TSR · 1st June 2011, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by ladmo

Don't get smug... now guess the time frame that my child was in school. My statement still stands.

.
Why should we guess -- if you think it is significant, just tell us.

The statement about exemption still stands.
.

Clayton Moore · 1st June 2011, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Travis

Was this a serious question?

U betcha. You don't see anyone answering it. Must have hit a nerve.

000063 · 1st June 2011, 02:13 PM

Yes you did, Clay; our collective funny bone.

Clayton Moore · 1st June 2011, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Grassy Knowlington

CM - I do not wish to be intrusive but I have a child who was diagnosed Aspergers (at one point Autism was considered but then dismissed) and would like to hear your experience.

Actually they were the son of a close friend of my son, the grandson of my son's Godmother, and the son of a friend I know from poker games.

So my only contact has been through conversation about them.

Tomblvd · 1st June 2011, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

U betcha. You don't see anyone answering it. Must have it a nerve.

Actually, if you reread your question, you will see it essentially answers itself:

[quote=Clayton Moore;7239155]

Originally Posted by TSR

[url="http://www.cdc.gov/features/rubella/"]From 1963-1965, a rubella epidemic swept across the globe. In the United States alone, there were about 11,000 fetal deaths and 20,000 infants born with congenital rubella syndrome, a group of birth defects that can occur in an infant when its mother is infected with rubella during pregnancy.[/URL

What did we read? Rubella is mild with children.

Rubella is dangerous to unborn babies. That means the danger lies with women at child bearing age.

So why are year old babies getting a Rubella vaccination?

Who takes care of "year old babies"? Who among women of child bearing age tends to associate most closely?

If you think about babies, their mothers and pregnant women, you'll understand.

Clayton Moore · 1st June 2011, 02:46 PM

[quote=Tomblvd;7241705]Actually, if you reread your question, you will see it essentially answers itself:

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

Who takes care of "year old babies"? Who among women of child bearing age tends to associate most closely?

If you think about babies, their mothers and pregnant women, you'll understand.

HMMMM. So instead of pushing rubella vaccine for all 10 year old girls who haven't already become immune, all babies get it?

Tomblvd · 1st June 2011, 02:58 PM

[quote=Clayton Moore;7241746]

Originally Posted by Tomblvd

Actually, if you reread your question, you will see it essentially answers itself:

HMMMM. So instead of pushing rubella vaccine for all 10 year old girls who haven't already become immune, all babies get it?

I don't understand what point you are making here. Where are you getting these "10 year old girls who haven't already become immune"? And how is this an either/or? Are you saying we are withholding vaccines from an at-risk group to immunize infants?

Your statement makes no sense.

ladmo · 1st June 2011, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by TSR

.
Why should we guess -- if you think it is significant, just tell us.

The statement about exemption still stands.
.

Back up your claim with facts. There were not always exemptions. If you want to back up your claim provide the facts. If not, do not make the claims...

tsig · 1st June 2011, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

Washing hands was a time in the history of medicine reference.

A time of what?

tsig · 1st June 2011, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by ladmo

Back up your claim with facts. There were not always exemptions. If you want to back up your claim provide the facts. If not, do not make the claims...

You might just want to post whatever point you have.

Clayton Moore · 1st June 2011, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Travis

Babies can be born with all sorts of potential reactions to things. Of course we only find out about them when they actually have these reactions. But I suppose we should go the safer course and just keep all babies in a plastic bubble just in case.

Good idea. You can thank woman's lib for that.

kookbreaker · 1st June 2011, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

Good idea. You can thank woman's lib for that.

Are you in the same thread as the rest of us?

TSR · 1st June 2011, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by ladmo

Back up your claim with facts. There were not always exemptions. If you want to back up your claim provide the facts. If not, do not make the claims...

.
You have been offered facts.

Then you make additional claims about when exemptions began.

Claims that are strangely missing those fact thingies.

*Prove* that exemptions have not been available as long as mandatory exemptions have, or do not make the claim.
.

ladmo · 1st June 2011, 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by TSR

.
You have been offered facts.

Then you make additional claims about when exemptions began.

Claims that are strangely missing those fact thingies.

*Prove* that exemptions have not been available as long as mandatory exemptions have, or do not make the claim.
.

You are completely wrong... the "facts" were written well before my case. Plain and simple...

No additional claims have been made... state the additional claims. Excaza said posted exemptions well before my child went to school... all I asked was to provide the claims that pertain. It wasn't provided and if you think it was... then your mind was already made up.

I am still looking for the facts.

31st May 2011, 07:46 PM	#321
fullflavormenthol Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,417	Originally Posted by Clayton Moore So what internet source would you recommend as a source? theman.com? NIST.com? Bigpharma.com Baptist.com? Cheney.com? Rumsfeld.com If JoAnn started a site for ideas to make money would it be likely that most would be bogus? Yeah...nice, but seriously I am not going to take medical history from a site like rumormillnews. How about a site about medicine and medical history that doesn't have the word rumor in the name, and isn't a conspiracy theory website. But given that I am a baptist pharmacist Cheney/Rumsfeld supporter who is the man and is in league with the NIST....something about JoAnn too. I don't know, anything to ignore the fact of rumormillnews being a less than legitimate source.
	__________________ "Burning people! He says what we're all thinking!" -GLaDOS

31st May 2011, 09:14 PM	#323
Clayton Moore Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 6,227	[quote=TSR;7238553] [url="http://www.cdc.gov/features/rubella/"]From 1963-1965, a rubella epidemic swept across the globe. In the United States alone, there were about 11,000 fetal deaths and 20,000 infants born with congenital rubella syndrome, a group of birth defects that can occur in an infant when its mother is infected with rubella during pregnancy.[/URL Quote: In young children, rubella is usually mild, with few noticeable symptoms. They may feel feverish and have a sore throat. Quote: Rubella Is Dangerous for Unborn Babies Quote: MMR Vaccine: Preventing Rubella Disease and Birth Defects since the 1960s Quote: * the first dose at 12–15 months of age and * the second dose before entering school, at 4–6 years of age. What did we read? Rubella is mild with children. Rubella is dangerous to unborn babies. That means the danger lies with women at child bearing age. So why are year old babies getting a Rubella vaccination?
	__________________ Shitat Matzliach is why the Holohoax works. The same neoconservative scum who engineered 9/11 and got the US into two wars want American troops to sacrifice their lives in Syria and Iran. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhc7M...Mc4eb2TClVRQws http://rememberbuilding7.org/10/#aevideo http://www2.ae911truth.org/actionale...rBuilding7.php

1st June 2011, 01:48 AM	#324
Tolls Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,127	Originally Posted by fullflavormenthol I'm going to go out on a limb and question the legitimacy of rumormillnews as a source. Well, it's not entirely incorrect. Britain did suffer its worst smallpox outbreak after compulsory vaccination was introduced. It was introduced in 1853, and the worldwide epidemic was in 1871/72. So 20 years, not 40. The vaccine didn't prevent you getting the disease, quite often. It did reduce the chance of death. There are 20th century statistics showing something like a reduction from 40% to 10%. No idea how this compares with the figures for the 1870s, though.
Tolls Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,127

1st June 2011, 02:26 AM	#325
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tuolumne City, CA Posts: 17,960	Originally Posted by Clayton Moore Originally Posted by TSR [url="http://www.cdc.gov/features/rubella/"]From 1963-1965, a rubella epidemic swept across the globe. In the United States alone, there were about 11,000 fetal deaths and 20,000 infants born with congenital rubella syndrome, a group of birth defects that can occur in an infant when its mother is infected with rubella during pregnancy.[/URL What did we read? Rubella is mild with children. Rubella is dangerous to unborn babies. That means the danger lies with women at child bearing age. So why are year old babies getting a Rubella vaccination? Was this a serious question?
	__________________ "Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com Zingiber Officinale The Humor blog of some not crazy guy

1st June 2011, 03:15 AM	#326
Tolls Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,127	Originally Posted by Travis Was this a serious question? I think we can safely conclude that CM has no idea how vaccines work...CM just knows they're eeeevil.
Tolls Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,127

31st May 2011, 08:37 PM	#322
Safe-Keeper Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sogndal, Norway Posts: 7,124	Quote: So what internet source would you recommend as a source? theman.com? NIST.com? Bigpharma.com Baptist.com? Cheney.com? Rumsfeld.com Quote: If JoAnn started a site for ideas to make money would it be likely that most would be bogus? For the third time, you don't measure the worth of web sites just by looking at who founded them, for what purpose, whether they disagree with you, or how much money they make. You do research. As a matter of fact, start by reading up on the scientific method and how it's the best tool we have.

1st June 2011, 03:57 AM	#327
excaza Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Boston Posts: 3,632	Originally Posted by ladmo The false dychotomy of assuming the spreadingof a disease if not inoculated is notated. My child was allergic to certain vaccines due to an anaphylaxis condition. There have always been waivers for those who are physically unable to handle vaccinations. Herd immunity will do a decent job of protecting them. Quote: There was no way I would give him the required vaccine just so a paranoid condition could be satisfied. He never contracted any of the diseases the vaccines were targeting... And another anti-vaxxer who doesn't understand how or why vaccines work. This trend is...disturbing.
	__________________ Last edited by excaza; 1st June 2011 at 04:09 AM.

1st June 2011, 04:07 AM	#328
excaza Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Boston Posts: 3,632	Originally Posted by Clayton Moore Measles, Chicken Pox, and Rubella were never deadly diseases in the 50s or after doctors started washing their hands Swing and a miss. All three of these are airborne diseases, washing your hands is going to do jack diddly.
	__________________

1st June 2011, 04:21 AM	#329
Grassy Knowlington Muse Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: HAARP Command & Control Posts: 510	Quote: Originally Posted by Clayton Moore I know personally the parents of maybe 10 young children including my granddaughters. 3 of the little boys are autistic. .... Originally Posted by Grassy Knowlington I am sorry to hear that. Are they diagnosed as Autistic or Aspergers? There's quite a spectrum from a mildly Aspergers condition to what is usually labelled Autistic. CM - I do not wish to be intrusive but I have a child who was diagnosed Aspergers (at one point Autism was considered but then dismissed) and would like to hear your experience.

1st June 2011, 04:52 AM	#330
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	You gotta love the anti-vaxxer attitude of "if it isn't deadly, it isn't a problem!". I mean, who cares about impotence, crippling joints, pnuemonia, deafness....
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	__________________ Thanks for helping me win Best Children's Gifts and Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011 & 2012! Spectrum Scientifics - My store - Google it people!

1st June 2011, 04:53 AM	#331
excaza Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Boston Posts: 3,632	Originally Posted by Clayton Moore http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin...ames/read/8803 This is an incredibly awful article.
	__________________

1st June 2011, 06:30 AM	#332
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tuolumne City, CA Posts: 17,960	Originally Posted by kookbreaker You gotta love the anti-vaxxer attitude of "if it isn't deadly, it isn't a problem!". I mean, who cares about impotence, crippling joints, pnuemonia, deafness.... Hey, let's face it, the flu sucks even if it doesn't cripple you. You miss a couple weeks of work and you are wishing for death while stuck in bed. Think of the all the productivity in the economy lost to things like the flu too.
	__________________ "Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com Zingiber Officinale The Humor blog of some not crazy guy

1st June 2011, 09:03 AM	#334
ladmo Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 443	Originally Posted by excaza There have always been waivers for those who are physically unable to handle vaccinations. Herd immunity will do a decent job of protecting them. You do not know what you are talking about... there was no waiver.
ladmo Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 443

1st June 2011, 09:27 AM	#337
aggle-rithm Ardent Formulist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 14,156	Originally Posted by ladmo I never said that vaccines create anything beyond what would affect my son. Is the general public paranoid? Yes, if the public feels vaccines are necessary and should be forced on people who don't want it. Question: should my son die just because you want him to have a vaccine? Question: Should millions of children die because you don't think vaccines are necessary?
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

1st June 2011, 10:02 AM	#339
excaza Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Boston Posts: 3,632	Originally Posted by ladmo You do not know what you are talking about... there was no waiver. There is a waiver. I've gotten one, nimrod. Seems like you didn't try too hard.
	__________________

1st June 2011, 10:11 AM	#340
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tuolumne City, CA Posts: 17,960	I've never heard of them forcing a child that has allergic or other types of reactions to vaccines to still be inoculated.
	__________________ "Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com Zingiber Officinale The Humor blog of some not crazy guy

1st June 2011, 10:14 AM	#341
fullflavormenthol Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,417	Originally Posted by Tolls Well, it's not entirely incorrect. Britain did suffer its worst smallpox outbreak after compulsory vaccination was introduced. It was introduced in 1853, and the worldwide epidemic was in 1871/72. So 20 years, not 40. The vaccine didn't prevent you getting the disease, quite often. It did reduce the chance of death. There are 20th century statistics showing something like a reduction from 40% to 10%. No idea how this compares with the figures for the 1870s, though. And I would not have written anything had it come from a legitimate source. Being wrapped in the conspiracy langauge that it was, I was taking issue with that. Good information doesn't have to be taken from bad sources.
	__________________ "Burning people! He says what we're all thinking!" -GLaDOS Last edited by fullflavormenthol; 1st June 2011 at 11:59 AM.

1st June 2011, 10:15 AM	#342
excaza Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Boston Posts: 3,632	Originally Posted by ladmo You do not know what you are talking about... there was no waiver. http://www.vaclib.org/exemption.htm At the bottom of this page (don't bother reading the rest of the content, I know you won't like it) are links for exemption forms for every US State, along with the relevant state statutes allowing for the waiver. That took 2 seconds of googling. Research is hard.
	__________________ Last edited by excaza; 1st June 2011 at 10:16 AM.

1st June 2011, 11:40 AM	#343
Clayton Moore Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 6,227	Originally Posted by excaza Swing and a miss. All three of these are airborne diseases, washing your hands is going to do jack diddly. Washing hands was a time in the history of medicine reference.
	__________________ Shitat Matzliach is why the Holohoax works. The same neoconservative scum who engineered 9/11 and got the US into two wars want American troops to sacrifice their lives in Syria and Iran. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhc7M...Mc4eb2TClVRQws http://rememberbuilding7.org/10/#aevideo http://www2.ae911truth.org/actionale...rBuilding7.php

1st June 2011, 11:53 AM	#344
excaza Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Boston Posts: 3,632	Originally Posted by Clayton Moore Washing hands was a time in the history of medicine reference. Cool. Will hand washing prevent TB?
	__________________ Last edited by excaza; 1st June 2011 at 11:55 AM.

1st June 2011, 12:47 PM	#345
ladmo Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 443	Originally Posted by excaza http://www.vaclib.org/exemption.htm At the bottom of this page (don't bother reading the rest of the content, I know you won't like it) are links for exemption forms for every US State, along with the relevant state statutes allowing for the waiver. That took 2 seconds of googling. Research is hard. Don't get smug... now guess the time frame that my child was in school. My statement still stands.
ladmo Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 443

1st June 2011, 12:52 PM	#346
Arisia Muse Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: 495 & MassPike, MA Posts: 584	Originally Posted by excaza http://www.vaclib.org/exemption.htm At the bottom of this page (don't bother reading the rest of the content, I know you won't like it) are links for exemption forms for every US State, along with the relevant state statutes allowing for the waiver. That took 2 seconds of googling. Research is hard. I figured there'd be a clearinghouse for such information on the internet for parents of vaccine-allergic children to use (my daughter has no allergies, thank goodness, so she's had every childhood vaccination available, even the ones not mandated by the state of Massachusetts), because it doesn't make sense to me that any of the 50 states would require vaccination for children that are allergic. Of course, these days, I hope it's an uphill battle getting an exemption/waiver for anything besides proven medical necessity (you can get them for religious reasons, too, if I'm not mistaken), since herd immunity is on iffy footing in some places right now. For instance, I know there are quite a few cases of Measles in the Boston metro area right now.

1st June 2011, 01:12 PM	#347
TSR Do you know what this notorious criminal did? Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,788	Originally Posted by ladmo Don't get smug... now guess the time frame that my child was in school. My statement still stands. . Why should we guess -- if you think it is significant, just tell us. The statement about exemption still stands. .
	__________________ My apologies once again for not being allowed to use the obvious shorthand term for a person who knowingly posts untruths. Apparently someone finds that term uncivil, demonstrated and deserved as it is. . "My family is not my weakness, Max. It's my strength." Vince Faraday aka The Cape

1st June 2011, 02:04 PM	#348
Clayton Moore Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 6,227	Originally Posted by Travis Was this a serious question? U betcha. You don't see anyone answering it. Must have hit a nerve.
	__________________ Shitat Matzliach is why the Holohoax works. The same neoconservative scum who engineered 9/11 and got the US into two wars want American troops to sacrifice their lives in Syria and Iran. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhc7M...Mc4eb2TClVRQws http://rememberbuilding7.org/10/#aevideo http://www2.ae911truth.org/actionale...rBuilding7.php Last edited by Clayton Moore; 1st June 2011 at 02:40 PM.

1st June 2011, 02:13 PM	#349
000063 Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Not America. Posts: 4,738	Yes you did, Clay; our collective funny bone.
	__________________ No, I'd like you to answer the question in two, simple, coherent sentences. ... That's how you present credible arguments in written form. -ergo, on me giving him a 2 digit number I can think of two reasons why bedunkers are often so loathe to explain their theories using plain, concise language--words even. - ergo

1st June 2011, 02:26 PM	#350
Clayton Moore Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 6,227	Originally Posted by Grassy Knowlington CM - I do not wish to be intrusive but I have a child who was diagnosed Aspergers (at one point Autism was considered but then dismissed) and would like to hear your experience. Actually they were the son of a close friend of my son, the grandson of my son's Godmother, and the son of a friend I know from poker games. So my only contact has been through conversation about them.
	__________________ Shitat Matzliach is why the Holohoax works. The same neoconservative scum who engineered 9/11 and got the US into two wars want American troops to sacrifice their lives in Syria and Iran. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhc7M...Mc4eb2TClVRQws http://rememberbuilding7.org/10/#aevideo http://www2.ae911truth.org/actionale...rBuilding7.php

1st June 2011, 02:34 PM	#351
Tomblvd Muse Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 789	Originally Posted by Clayton Moore U betcha. You don't see anyone answering it. Must have it a nerve. Actually, if you reread your question, you will see it essentially answers itself: [quote=Clayton Moore;7239155] Originally Posted by TSR [url="http://www.cdc.gov/features/rubella/"]From 1963-1965, a rubella epidemic swept across the globe. In the United States alone, there were about 11,000 fetal deaths and 20,000 infants born with congenital rubella syndrome, a group of birth defects that can occur in an infant when its mother is infected with rubella during pregnancy.[/URL What did we read? Rubella is mild with children. Rubella is dangerous to unborn babies. That means the danger lies with women at child bearing age. So why are year old babies getting a Rubella vaccination? Who takes care of "year old babies"? Who among women of child bearing age tends to associate most closely? If you think about babies, their mothers and pregnant women, you'll understand.
Tomblvd Muse Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 789

1st June 2011, 02:46 PM	#352
Clayton Moore Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 6,227	[quote=Tomblvd;7241705]Actually, if you reread your question, you will see it essentially answers itself: Originally Posted by Clayton Moore Who takes care of "year old babies"? Who among women of child bearing age tends to associate most closely? If you think about babies, their mothers and pregnant women, you'll understand. HMMMM. So instead of pushing rubella vaccine for all 10 year old girls who haven't already become immune, all babies get it?
	__________________ Shitat Matzliach is why the Holohoax works. The same neoconservative scum who engineered 9/11 and got the US into two wars want American troops to sacrifice their lives in Syria and Iran. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhc7M...Mc4eb2TClVRQws http://rememberbuilding7.org/10/#aevideo http://www2.ae911truth.org/actionale...rBuilding7.php

1st June 2011, 02:58 PM	#353
Tomblvd Muse Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 789	[quote=Clayton Moore;7241746] Originally Posted by Tomblvd Actually, if you reread your question, you will see it essentially answers itself: HMMMM. So instead of pushing rubella vaccine for all 10 year old girls who haven't already become immune, all babies get it? I don't understand what point you are making here. Where are you getting these "10 year old girls who haven't already become immune"? And how is this an either/or? Are you saying we are withholding vaccines from an at-risk group to immunize infants? Your statement makes no sense.
Tomblvd Muse Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 789

1st June 2011, 03:22 PM	#354
ladmo Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 443	Originally Posted by TSR . Why should we guess -- if you think it is significant, just tell us. The statement about exemption still stands. . Back up your claim with facts. There were not always exemptions. If you want to back up your claim provide the facts. If not, do not make the claims...
ladmo Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 443

1st June 2011, 04:10 PM	#355
tsig a carbon based life-form Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 26,804	Originally Posted by Clayton Moore Washing hands was a time in the history of medicine reference. A time of what?

1st June 2011, 04:14 PM	#356
tsig a carbon based life-form Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 26,804	Originally Posted by ladmo Back up your claim with facts. There were not always exemptions. If you want to back up your claim provide the facts. If not, do not make the claims... You might just want to post whatever point you have.

1st June 2011, 04:53 PM	#357
Clayton Moore Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 6,227	Originally Posted by Travis Babies can be born with all sorts of potential reactions to things. Of course we only find out about them when they actually have these reactions. But I suppose we should go the safer course and just keep all babies in a plastic bubble just in case. Good idea. You can thank woman's lib for that.
	__________________ Shitat Matzliach is why the Holohoax works. The same neoconservative scum who engineered 9/11 and got the US into two wars want American troops to sacrifice their lives in Syria and Iran. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhc7M...Mc4eb2TClVRQws http://rememberbuilding7.org/10/#aevideo http://www2.ae911truth.org/actionale...rBuilding7.php

1st June 2011, 06:50 PM	#358
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	Originally Posted by Clayton Moore Good idea. You can thank woman's lib for that. Are you in the same thread as the rest of us?
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	__________________ Thanks for helping me win Best Children's Gifts and Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011 & 2012! Spectrum Scientifics - My store - Google it people!

1st June 2011, 07:55 PM	#359
TSR Do you know what this notorious criminal did? Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,788	Originally Posted by ladmo Back up your claim with facts. There were not always exemptions. If you want to back up your claim provide the facts. If not, do not make the claims... . You have been offered facts. Then you make additional claims about when exemptions began. Claims that are strangely missing those fact thingies. Prove that exemptions have not been available as long as mandatory exemptions have, or do not make the claim. .
	__________________ My apologies once again for not being allowed to use the obvious shorthand term for a person who knowingly posts untruths. Apparently someone finds that term uncivil, demonstrated and deserved as it is. . "My family is not my weakness, Max. It's my strength." Vince Faraday aka The Cape