What information should ID cards contain ?

El Greco · 31st March 2004, 01:37 PM

The privacy vs security issue...

I was short of options so I left out the obvious ones (name, signature) or the less important ones (profession, etc). Feel free to add your ideas, though.

Furthermore: Should ID cards expire, and if yes, after how many years ?

Matabiri · 31st March 2004, 01:53 PM

I'd go for none of the above, I'm afraid. I'm not in favour.

Grammatron · 31st March 2004, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by El Greco
The privacy vs security issue...

I was short of options so I left out the obvious ones (name, signature) or the less important ones (profession, etc). Feel free to add your ideas, though.

Furthermore: Should ID cards expire, and if yes, after how many years ?

I'm wondering why did you put in Photograph as a choice, how can you have an ID with out one? If you can't do some basic Identifying what is the point of the Identification Card?

Personally I don't see what it needs beyond Name, Address, Features, Photo and Signature.

Tony · 31st March 2004, 02:02 PM

My ideal ID card would be a blank white card.

Question for anyone in the know: In the US, are you legally required to carry your ID (driver's licence) on you at all times, or just while driving?

geni · 31st March 2004, 02:04 PM

If Blunket gets his plans though I am due to become a criminal around 2010. I am not going to carry a national ID card.

El Greco · 31st March 2004, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grammatron
I'm wondering why did you put in Photograph as a choice, how can you have an ID with out one? If you can't do some basic Identifying what is the point of the Identification Card?

Because there are already cases of ID cards without photographs. IIRC, IDs for women in Pakistan often do not have photographs.

Besides, there are ideas about replacing photos (which btw are unreliable for identification purposes) with some barcode that matches eg data from iris and can be checked with proper equipment.

aerocontrols · 31st March 2004, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tony
Question for anyone in the know: In the US, are you legally required to carry your ID (driver's licence) on you at all times, or just while driving?

Just while driving. (not when driving on private property, however - in case you know anyone with enough property to make driving around on it worthwhile)

I wonder if you need a driver's license to move a car from one parking spot to another at a mall? Perhaps yes, because it's a public space?

Jocko · 31st March 2004, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aerocontrols

Just while driving. (not when driving on private property, however - in case you know anyone with enough property to make driving around on it worthwhile)

I wonder if you need a driver's license to move a car from one parking spot to another at a mall? Perhaps yes, because it's a public space?

Actually, you don't even NEED to have it then. If you're asked for identification by a law officer, most states I've lived in won't penalize you if you don't have it on your person.

In Illinois the rule was that if you didn't have it with you, you had to follow the cop to the station where they could verify that you did, indeed, have driving credentials. I think there's a 24-hour limit to producing proof there.

I'm sure it varies from state to state, but back in high school I got pulled over for speeding and that's exactly what happened when I realized I'd left my wallet at home. No harm, no foul (except for the speeding ticket, natch).

belinda · 31st March 2004, 02:26 PM

It used to be that way here too....24hrs to produce at the closest cop shop - but now you can get a on-the-spot fine if you don't have your licence when you are driving. Warning to all aussies out there!

Luke T. · 31st March 2004, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grammatron

I'm wondering why did you put in Photograph as a choice, how can you have an ID with out one? If you can't do some basic Identifying what is the point of the Identification Card?

Personally I don't see what it needs beyond Name, Address, Features, Photo and Signature.

I had a driver's license without a photo on it for many years from the state of Connecticut. Since I was in the military and couldn't go home to have my photo taken at DMV when it expired, they just issued me a non-photo license in the mail.

This caused a problem one time when I rented a car. The lady in the booth wouldn't let me leave the lot since they check your driver's license against the renter's name and she couldn't believe it was a real license. When I explained about the military problem, blah, blah, blah, she told me her boyfriend was in the military and his license had a photo. I asked her where he was stationed. She said "Here." I asked where his license was issued. She said "Here." She still didn't get it.

Grammatron · 31st March 2004, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Luke T.

I had a driver's license without a photo on it for many years from the state of Connecticut. Since I was in the military and couldn't go home to have my photo taken at DMV when it expired, they just issued me a non-photo license in the mail.

This caused a problem one time when I rented a car. The lady in the booth wouldn't let me leave the lot since they check your driver's license against the renter's name and she couldn't believe it was a real license. When I explained about the military problem, blah, blah, blah, she told me her boyfriend was in the military and his license had a photo. I asked her where he was stationed. She said "Here." I asked where his license was issued. She said "Here." She still didn't get it.

I think ID and Driver License are different. Granted it doubles as one and the same in many states, ID is suppose to show who you are while Driver License shows you know how to drive, but that's just my opinion.

PS Couldn't you just show her your military ID along with the license?

Luke T. · 31st March 2004, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grammatron

PS Couldn't you just show her your military ID along with the license?

I did. But you have to have a valid driver's license to rent a car. That's where things got stuck. She didn't believe it was a valid license.

iain · 31st March 2004, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by geni
If Blunket gets his plans though I am due to become a criminal around 2010. I am not going to carry a national ID card.

I think you might be OK. The cards, which will do little stop terrorists (ID cards worked so well in Spain, after all) is currently forecast to cost £3billion to implement. Given that this is a large government IT project and, without exception, they always go massively over budget and take longer to implement than planned, I suspect that before it sees the light of day we might get someone in power with the brains to realise that there must be more effective ways of spending a few billion pounds to counter crime and terrorism.

The thing that frustrates me is the general acceptance by much of the public that ID cards will magically reduce crime, fraud and terrorism just because they are ID cards; and therefore anyone opposing ID cards must be in favour of crime, fraud and terrorism

Boo · 1st April 2004, 12:04 AM

If are of age and want to purchase tobacco or alcohol you need a valid ID card with a picture. If you drive, you need to have the Drivers lisence. Most places around here require a picture ID for check or credit card prurchases.

If I already have one or the other then why would I need another ID card?

I don't need or want another way for the gov't to 'register' me.

Boo

Matabiri · 1st April 2004, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Boo
I don't need or want another way for the gov't to 'register' me.

Oh, come on, they don't want to 'register' you, or interfere with your life in any way.

They just want you to wear this little bell around your neck...

Brian the Snail · 1st April 2004, 12:39 AM

Another vote for "none of the above."

epepke · 1st April 2004, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by aerocontrols
Just while driving. (not when driving on private property, however - in case you know anyone with enough property to make driving around on it worthwhile)

This might be true in Georgia. (I lived for two years in Atanta, and I have had Georgia.)

In some other states, you aren't required to carry it but are simply required to be able to produce it within 24 hours of being stopped for a violation.

At no other time are you legally required to show an ID to the authorities, to carry, or even to possess an ID. Of course, the cops might hassle you if you don't, but then again, they might hassle you just because they don't like you.

richardm · 1st April 2004, 01:09 AM

I can sort of see that you can force people to have driver's licences - after all, your in a car that already has a unique number plate so you should be able to find a person again if they don't produce documentation later.

One of the things that proponents say when talking about ID cards is "Oh, well, you won't be forced to carry one". I presume this is because otherwise it conjours up visions of the Gestapo demanding "Vere are your Papers?".

But if you're not forced to carry it, what's the point of having it in the first place?

"Right you are, potential miscreant. You can go for now, but if you don't show up at the station within 24 hours with your ID card it'll be the worse for you".

I can see that working...

Anyway, I've always been in the "Blank Card" camp.

Iconoclast · 1st April 2004, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by belinda
It used to be that way here too....24hrs to produce at the closest cop shop - but now you can get a on-the-spot fine if you don't have your licence when you are driving. Warning to all aussies out there!

I'm confused Belinda. Back when I got my licence, you needed to have it on you all the time if you were on your L or P licence, but you had to produce it in 24hrs if you had an open licence. Has this all changed in Queensland now? Is it because we're moving to this Australia-wide road rules thing?

Agammamon · 1st April 2004, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grammatron
Personally I don't see what it needs beyond Name, Address, Features, Photo and Signature.

Actually, I'd consider an address to be a very bad bit of info to put on the card. Do complete strangers really need to know where you live?

In the US D/L also double as ID. You can be required to show ID in the US, most states have laws allowing that. Right now the Supremes are hearing Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada on that very subject.

Darat · 1st April 2004, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by geni
If Blunket gets his plans though I am due to become a criminal around 2010. I am not going to carry a national ID card.

Totally agree.

iain · 1st April 2004, 08:47 AM

Maybe a bad April Fools joke, but I doubt it. Tony Blair is saying that he wants to accelerate the introduction of ID cards in the UK.

Apparently, the civil liberties objectors have all been won over! News to me. Maybe Tony Blair is living in some parallel universe.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3590795.stm

geni · 1st April 2004, 09:00 AM

This link should get you to ID cards FAQ

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/comrace...ards/faq3.html

Where it really takes you is worrying.

Tmy · 1st April 2004, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tony
My ideal ID card would be a blank white card.

Why not a black card! RACIST!!!!

Gee, ID cards will save the world!!! Whatever, I had my first fake ID when I was 18. Im thinking its not to hard for terrorists to get fake ones either.

Back in the day my ID had my SS# they finally changed that.

Agammamon · 1st April 2004, 10:10 AM

Worse, it'll be amazingly easy for them to get real ones.

Zbu · 8th March 2006, 05:31 AM

I won't carry a national ID card either. I bought a US passport back in 2002 and damn it, that $60 is going to carry me until 2012! Even with the crappy photo!!

Ed · 8th March 2006, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by Boo

Most places around here require a picture ID for credit card prurchases.

Boo

That is a violation of the agreement between the credit card provider and the merchant. They ain't allowed to ask (unless you haven't signed it).

Dcdrac · 8th March 2006, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by geni

If Blunket gets his plans though I am due to become a criminal around 2010. I am not going to carry a national ID card.

Me too except it will Be Charles Clarke branding us instead.

Checkmite · 8th March 2006, 07:48 AM

Of course, the whole "national ID card" thing is overblown and misunderstood. What's being passed is a set of standards that would be required to make a state ID card (such as a driver's license) valid ID for entering federal facilities. For example, the driver licenses that Ohio issues already comply with all of the suggested standards - so even if the bill passes, my Ohio driver license will be just fine, and future Ohio driver licenses won't look any different. When I lived in Texas, the license I had at that time had all the requirements already as well, so it wouldn't have changed either.

If your state driver license doesn't comply with the standard, all that means is that you'll have to use something else, like a passport, to enter a federal building.

CFLarsen · 8th March 2006, 08:08 AM

What is so bad about having an ID card?

Luke T. · 8th March 2006, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by CFLarsen

What is so bad about having an ID card?

The concern is with who has access to the information on it and what they do with it. And we don't like the idea of the government tracking our every move and want to be able to move about freely without having to show our papers.

Plus, there is the very real threat of identity theft. A big problem here.

Jaggy Bunnet · 8th March 2006, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by CFLarsen

What is so bad about having an ID card?

For the UK System:

£16bn to implement.

It will not work (based on much smaller, much simpler gov't IT contracts which have failed).

No-one is able to explain how it is going to stop crime or terrorism. It didn't stop the Madrid bombings, it would not have stopped the London bombings and spending £16 billion on it means there is less many to spend on things that might actually make a difference.

Checkmite · 8th March 2006, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Luke T.

And we don't like the idea of the government tracking our every move...

...with a secret tracking chip hidden inside the card?

Luke T. · 8th March 2006, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by Joshua Korosi

...with a secret tracking chip hidden inside the card?

What is the purpose of an ID card? What uses will it be put to? Will it have a bar code on it that is scanned every time it is used?

Checkmite · 8th March 2006, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by Luke T.

What is the purpose of an ID card? What uses will it be put to? Will it have a bar code on it that is scanned every time it is used?

No. My driver license has a black scan-strip on it. The only time my driver license was ever scanned in a machine was at a cigarette shop. They didn't even scan it at the airport when I went through security - they just looked at it.

Your driver license is a document which functions as evidence - that you have proven to a government body (the state government, to be sure) that you are who you claim to be. It's good enough evidence for the feds - including airport security - as long as it has certain specific information on it, like name, address, and an expiration date (which is ALL the legislation is about). Your driver license most likely fulfills all the requirements put forth in the legislation - which means that when you next renew your license, it will a) probably look exactly the same as it does now, barring any color or template changes that states like to throw up from time to time, and b) will be used exactly the way it is used now - as if this "national ID" legislation had never passed, or even been suggested.

So your card will continue to be "scanned" at places where it is currently scanned, and will continue to be only looked at in places where it is currently only looked at. Believe me, the phrase "national ID card" sort of made me double-take first time I read it, a while ago. But I looked at the legislation and decided that it's much ado about nothing. Read it and you'll see - it's one of the shortest pieces of legislation I've ever read. And all it says is, "in order for a state-issued ID to be good enough for the feds, it has to have x information on it".

Dcdrac · 9th March 2006, 08:45 AM

For me the big issue with an ID card is NO state has a right to claim that I belong to it, as far as I am concerned the UK jsut happens to be the country I am living in at the moment.

And before anyone bangs on at me about being unpatriotic, I have worn uniform in the service of the UK and put my life on hte line for it.

shecky · 9th March 2006, 08:55 AM

A "national ID" card has to use intrusive and difficult to falsify technology. And that technology has to be used. I think this is the worry.

If it's decided that the equivalent of, say, a American driver's license is good enough, then it's basically toothless.

Checkmite · 9th March 2006, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by shecky

If it's decided that the equivalent of, say, a American driver's license is good enough, then it's basically toothless.

It is quite toothless. People are afraid it is something more than what it is - but it is just like the bulk of similar legislation passed anymore - measures which accomplish nothing save furnishing the illusion that something is "being done" about the problem.

Again, the bill does not mean you'll be getting an ID or driver license that says "United States of America" on it. The bill just means that your Ohio/Texas/Vermont/Alaska/Whatever driver license will have certain information on it. Since most (if not all) driver licenses, as I've said, already contain the "necessary" information, the bill does a whole lot of nothing.

31st March 2004, 01:37 PM	#1
El Greco Summer worshipper Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Παρά θιν'αλός Posts: 14,306	What information should ID cards contain ? The privacy vs security issue... I was short of options so I left out the obvious ones (name, signature) or the less important ones (profession, etc). Feel free to add your ideas, though. Furthermore: Should ID cards expire, and if yes, after how many years ?
	__________________ "Robbing a bank is no crime compared to owning one" - Bertolt Brecht "Let it go and come to bed already, El Greco" - MoeFaux

31st March 2004, 01:53 PM	#2
Matabiri Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,734	I'd go for none of the above, I'm afraid. I'm not in favour.
	__________________ "That's the kind of thing you can't look up on the internet, because it's the kind of thing you get taught at school." - Ashley Pomeroy

31st March 2004, 01:55 PM	#3
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	Re: What information should ID cards contain ? Quote: Originally posted by El Greco The privacy vs security issue... I was short of options so I left out the obvious ones (name, signature) or the less important ones (profession, etc). Feel free to add your ideas, though. Furthermore: Should ID cards expire, and if yes, after how many years ? I'm wondering why did you put in Photograph as a choice, how can you have an ID with out one? If you can't do some basic Identifying what is the point of the Identification Card? Personally I don't see what it needs beyond Name, Address, Features, Photo and Signature.
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	__________________ Private Information, Do not read this!

31st March 2004, 02:02 PM	#4
Tony Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 13,767	My ideal ID card would be a blank white card. Question for anyone in the know: In the US, are you legally required to carry your ID (driver's licence) on you at all times, or just while driving?
	__________________ It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company. - Mark Twain

31st March 2004, 02:07 PM	#6
El Greco Summer worshipper Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Παρά θιν'αλός Posts: 14,306	Re: Re: What information should ID cards contain ? Quote: Originally posted by Grammatron I'm wondering why did you put in Photograph as a choice, how can you have an ID with out one? If you can't do some basic Identifying what is the point of the Identification Card? Because there are already cases of ID cards without photographs. IIRC, IDs for women in Pakistan often do not have photographs. Besides, there are ideas about replacing photos (which btw are unreliable for identification purposes) with some barcode that matches eg data from iris and can be checked with proper equipment.
	__________________ "Robbing a bank is no crime compared to owning one" - Bertolt Brecht "Let it go and come to bed already, El Greco" - MoeFaux

31st March 2004, 02:04 PM	#5
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,578	If Blunket gets his plans though I am due to become a criminal around 2010. I am not going to carry a national ID card.

31st March 2004, 02:15 PM	#7
aerocontrols Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,445	Quote: Originally posted by Tony Question for anyone in the know: In the US, are you legally required to carry your ID (driver's licence) on you at all times, or just while driving? Just while driving. (not when driving on private property, however - in case you know anyone with enough property to make driving around on it worthwhile) I wonder if you need a driver's license to move a car from one parking spot to another at a mall? Perhaps yes, because it's a public space?
	__________________ Misunderestimated in 2000. Unredefeated in 2004. My dog does his tricks. My roomate's dog tries to escape the kitchen. We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest. Source

31st March 2004, 02:22 PM	#8
Jocko Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, Chicago... it's a toddling town. Posts: 5,463	Quote: Originally posted by aerocontrols Just while driving. (not when driving on private property, however - in case you know anyone with enough property to make driving around on it worthwhile) I wonder if you need a driver's license to move a car from one parking spot to another at a mall? Perhaps yes, because it's a public space? Actually, you don't even NEED to have it then. If you're asked for identification by a law officer, most states I've lived in won't penalize you if you don't have it on your person. In Illinois the rule was that if you didn't have it with you, you had to follow the cop to the station where they could verify that you did, indeed, have driving credentials. I think there's a 24-hour limit to producing proof there. I'm sure it varies from state to state, but back in high school I got pulled over for speeding and that's exactly what happened when I realized I'd left my wallet at home. No harm, no foul (except for the speeding ticket, natch).
	__________________ You claimed that a turd is a turd. I clearly demonstrated that some turds are gold. You're wrong, Jocko. KOA proving me "wrong."

31st March 2004, 02:26 PM	#9
belinda Thinker Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sydney Posts: 149	It used to be that way here too....24hrs to produce at the closest cop shop - but now you can get a on-the-spot fine if you don't have your licence when you are driving. Warning to all aussies out there!
	__________________ "Put on a dress that barely fits, Shake your ass and show me your wits" George Hrab - BrainsBodyBoth

31st March 2004, 02:31 PM	#10
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,759	Re: Re: What information should ID cards contain ? Quote: Originally posted by Grammatron I'm wondering why did you put in Photograph as a choice, how can you have an ID with out one? If you can't do some basic Identifying what is the point of the Identification Card? Personally I don't see what it needs beyond Name, Address, Features, Photo and Signature. I had a driver's license without a photo on it for many years from the state of Connecticut. Since I was in the military and couldn't go home to have my photo taken at DMV when it expired, they just issued me a non-photo license in the mail. This caused a problem one time when I rented a car. The lady in the booth wouldn't let me leave the lot since they check your driver's license against the renter's name and she couldn't believe it was a real license. When I explained about the military problem, blah, blah, blah, she told me her boyfriend was in the military and his license had a photo. I asked her where he was stationed. She said "Here." I asked where his license was issued. She said "Here." She still didn't get it.
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,759

31st March 2004, 02:45 PM	#11
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	Re: Re: Re: What information should ID cards contain ? Quote: Originally posted by Luke T. I had a driver's license without a photo on it for many years from the state of Connecticut. Since I was in the military and couldn't go home to have my photo taken at DMV when it expired, they just issued me a non-photo license in the mail. This caused a problem one time when I rented a car. The lady in the booth wouldn't let me leave the lot since they check your driver's license against the renter's name and she couldn't believe it was a real license. When I explained about the military problem, blah, blah, blah, she told me her boyfriend was in the military and his license had a photo. I asked her where he was stationed. She said "Here." I asked where his license was issued. She said "Here." She still didn't get it. I think ID and Driver License are different. Granted it doubles as one and the same in many states, ID is suppose to show who you are while Driver License shows you know how to drive, but that's just my opinion. PS Couldn't you just show her your military ID along with the license?
Grammatron Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,446	__________________ Private Information, Do not read this!

31st March 2004, 03:03 PM	#12
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,759	Re: Re: Re: Re: What information should ID cards contain ? Quote: Originally posted by Grammatron PS Couldn't you just show her your military ID along with the license? I did. But you have to have a valid driver's license to rent a car. That's where things got stuck. She didn't believe it was a valid license.
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,759

31st March 2004, 11:58 PM	#13
iain Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,293	Quote: Originally posted by geni If Blunket gets his plans though I am due to become a criminal around 2010. I am not going to carry a national ID card. I think you might be OK. The cards, which will do little stop terrorists (ID cards worked so well in Spain, after all) is currently forecast to cost £3billion to implement. Given that this is a large government IT project and, without exception, they always go massively over budget and take longer to implement than planned, I suspect that before it sees the light of day we might get someone in power with the brains to realise that there must be more effective ways of spending a few billion pounds to counter crime and terrorism. The thing that frustrates me is the general acceptance by much of the public that ID cards will magically reduce crime, fraud and terrorism just because they are ID cards; and therefore anyone opposing ID cards must be in favour of crime, fraud and terrorism
iain Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,293	__________________ "Mathematicians have discovered a new whole number between 27 and 28." - On the Hour

1st April 2004, 12:04 AM	#14
Boo ts Join Date: May 2003 Location: state of chaos Posts: 3,743	If are of age and want to purchase tobacco or alcohol you need a valid ID card with a picture. If you drive, you need to have the Drivers lisence. Most places around here require a picture ID for check or credit card prurchases. If I already have one or the other then why would I need another ID card? I don't need or want another way for the gov't to 'register' me. Boo
	__________________ Wounds heal. Morally Obtuse. Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.

1st April 2004, 12:16 AM	#15
Matabiri Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,734	Quote: Originally posted by Boo I don't need or want another way for the gov't to 'register' me. Oh, come on, they don't want to 'register' you, or interfere with your life in any way. They just want you to wear this little bell around your neck...
	__________________ "That's the kind of thing you can't look up on the internet, because it's the kind of thing you get taught at school." - Ashley Pomeroy

1st April 2004, 12:39 AM	#16
Brian the Snail Muse Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 963	Another vote for "none of the above."
Brian the Snail Muse Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 963

1st April 2004, 12:42 AM	#17
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950	Quote: Originally posted by aerocontrols Just while driving. (not when driving on private property, however - in case you know anyone with enough property to make driving around on it worthwhile) This might be true in Georgia. (I lived for two years in Atanta, and I have had Georgia.) In some other states, you aren't required to carry it but are simply required to be able to produce it within 24 hours of being stopped for a violation. At no other time are you legally required to show an ID to the authorities, to carry, or even to possess an ID. Of course, the cops might hassle you if you don't, but then again, they might hassle you just because they don't like you.
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950

1st April 2004, 01:09 AM	#18
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	I can sort of see that you can force people to have driver's licences - after all, your in a car that already has a unique number plate so you should be able to find a person again if they don't produce documentation later. One of the things that proponents say when talking about ID cards is "Oh, well, you won't be forced to carry one". I presume this is because otherwise it conjours up visions of the Gestapo demanding "Vere are your Papers?". But if you're not forced to carry it, what's the point of having it in the first place? "Right you are, potential miscreant. You can go for now, but if you don't show up at the station within 24 hours with your ID card it'll be the worse for you". I can see that working... Anyway, I've always been in the "Blank Card" camp.
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.

1st April 2004, 04:52 AM	#19
Iconoclast Breaker of Icons Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,797	Quote: Originally posted by belinda It used to be that way here too....24hrs to produce at the closest cop shop - but now you can get a on-the-spot fine if you don't have your licence when you are driving. Warning to all aussies out there! I'm confused Belinda. Back when I got my licence, you needed to have it on you all the time if you were on your L or P licence, but you had to produce it in 24hrs if you had an open licence. Has this all changed in Queensland now? Is it because we're moving to this Australia-wide road rules thing?
	__________________ A gun is not a weapon Marge, it's a tool, like a butcher knife or a harpoon or... ah... ah... an alligator. You just need more education on the subject. -- Homer Simpson

1st April 2004, 05:37 AM	#20
Agammamon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,385	Re: Re: What information should ID cards contain ? Quote: Originally posted by Grammatron Personally I don't see what it needs beyond Name, Address, Features, Photo and Signature. Actually, I'd consider an address to be a very bad bit of info to put on the card. Do complete strangers really need to know where you live? In the US D/L also double as ID. You can be required to show ID in the US, most states have laws allowing that. Right now the Supremes are hearing Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada on that very subject.
	__________________ It will be a great day when the US Air Force has all the bombs it needs and the NEA has to hold a bake sale in order to pay its lobbyists.

1st April 2004, 05:44 AM	#21
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,798	Quote: Originally posted by geni If Blunket gets his plans though I am due to become a criminal around 2010. I am not going to carry a national ID card. Totally agree.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

1st April 2004, 08:47 AM	#22
iain Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,293	Maybe a bad April Fools joke, but I doubt it. Tony Blair is saying that he wants to accelerate the introduction of ID cards in the UK. Apparently, the civil liberties objectors have all been won over! News to me. Maybe Tony Blair is living in some parallel universe. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3590795.stm
iain Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,293	__________________ "Mathematicians have discovered a new whole number between 27 and 28." - On the Hour

1st April 2004, 09:00 AM	#23
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,578	This link should get you to ID cards FAQ http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/comrace...ards/faq3.html Where it really takes you is worrying.

1st April 2004, 09:19 AM	#24
Tmy Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Republic of Massachusetts Posts: 6,489	Quote: Originally posted by Tony My ideal ID card would be a blank white card. Why not a black card! RACIST!!!! Gee, ID cards will save the world!!! Whatever, I had my first fake ID when I was 18. Im thinking its not to hard for terrorists to get fake ones either. Back in the day my ID had my SS# they finally changed that.
	__________________ "Common sense is something that skeptics can and should do without." -shanek

1st April 2004, 10:10 AM	#25
Agammamon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,385	Worse, it'll be amazingly easy for them to get real ones.
	__________________ It will be a great day when the US Air Force has all the bombs it needs and the NEA has to hold a bake sale in order to pay its lobbyists.

8th March 2006, 05:31 AM	#26
Zbu Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 466	I won't carry a national ID card either. I bought a US passport back in 2002 and damn it, that $60 is going to carry me until 2012! Even with the crappy photo!!

8th March 2006, 05:50 AM	#27
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	Originally Posted by Boo Most places around here require a picture ID for credit card prurchases. Boo That is a violation of the agreement between the credit card provider and the merchant. They ain't allowed to ask (unless you haven't signed it).
Ed god Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 8,691	__________________ "The history of science is the record of dead religions" Phrases And Philosophies For The Use Of The Young Oscar Wilde (1854-1900) Our Guarentee: One obscure (or not) Python reference per day.

8th March 2006, 07:11 AM	#28
Dcdrac Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,679	Originally Posted by geni If Blunket gets his plans though I am due to become a criminal around 2010. I am not going to carry a national ID card. Me too except it will Be Charles Clarke branding us instead.
Dcdrac Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,679

8th March 2006, 07:48 AM	#29
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Third in line Posts: 14,892	Of course, the whole "national ID card" thing is overblown and misunderstood. What's being passed is a set of standards that would be required to make a state ID card (such as a driver's license) valid ID for entering federal facilities. For example, the driver licenses that Ohio issues already comply with all of the suggested standards - so even if the bill passes, my Ohio driver license will be just fine, and future Ohio driver licenses won't look any different. When I lived in Texas, the license I had at that time had all the requirements already as well, so it wouldn't have changed either. If your state driver license doesn't comply with the standard, all that means is that you'll have to use something else, like a passport, to enter a federal building.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

8th March 2006, 08:08 AM	#30
CFLarsen Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 42,804	What is so bad about having an ID card?
	__________________ SkepticReport.com

8th March 2006, 09:07 AM	#31
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,759	Originally Posted by CFLarsen What is so bad about having an ID card? The concern is with who has access to the information on it and what they do with it. And we don't like the idea of the government tracking our every move and want to be able to move about freely without having to show our papers. Plus, there is the very real threat of identity theft. A big problem here.
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,759

8th March 2006, 10:32 AM	#32
Jaggy Bunnet Philosopher Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sunny Leith Posts: 6,148	Originally Posted by CFLarsen What is so bad about having an ID card? For the UK System: £16bn to implement. It will not work (based on much smaller, much simpler gov't IT contracts which have failed). No-one is able to explain how it is going to stop crime or terrorism. It didn't stop the Madrid bombings, it would not have stopped the London bombings and spending £16 billion on it means there is less many to spend on things that might actually make a difference.

8th March 2006, 03:53 PM	#33
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Third in line Posts: 14,892	Originally Posted by Luke T. And we don't like the idea of the government tracking our every move... ...with a secret tracking chip hidden inside the card?
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

8th March 2006, 03:59 PM	#34
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,759	Originally Posted by Joshua Korosi ...with a secret tracking chip hidden inside the card? What is the purpose of an ID card? What uses will it be put to? Will it have a bar code on it that is scanned every time it is used?
Luke T. Guest Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 14,759

8th March 2006, 08:35 PM	#35
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Third in line Posts: 14,892	Originally Posted by Luke T. What is the purpose of an ID card? What uses will it be put to? Will it have a bar code on it that is scanned every time it is used? No. My driver license has a black scan-strip on it. The only time my driver license was ever scanned in a machine was at a cigarette shop. They didn't even scan it at the airport when I went through security - they just looked at it. Your driver license is a document which functions as evidence - that you have proven to a government body (the state government, to be sure) that you are who you claim to be. It's good enough evidence for the feds - including airport security - as long as it has certain specific information on it, like name, address, and an expiration date (which is ALL the legislation is about). Your driver license most likely fulfills all the requirements put forth in the legislation - which means that when you next renew your license, it will a) probably look exactly the same as it does now, barring any color or template changes that states like to throw up from time to time, and b) will be used exactly the way it is used now - as if this "national ID" legislation had never passed, or even been suggested. So your card will continue to be "scanned" at places where it is currently scanned, and will continue to be only looked at in places where it is currently only looked at. Believe me, the phrase "national ID card" sort of made me double-take first time I read it, a while ago. But I looked at the legislation and decided that it's much ado about nothing. Read it and you'll see - it's one of the shortest pieces of legislation I've ever read. And all it says is, "in order for a state-issued ID to be good enough for the feds, it has to have x information on it".
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002