Merged: Finding Bigfoot

[LTC8K6]

Originally Posted by LuvGodzilla

I don't think your proposed show is that ho hum if a new show were developed that included a seperate team of professional scientist field researchers vs the finding bigfoot crew. That might make it interesting especially if it gets into some heated debate about the "evidence".

What reasonable argument could the believers make about tracks though? Tracks seem to be the height of the physical evidence.

I just can't see how they can rationally support any "evidence" they have.

They would have to resort to junk or woo, and a fair debate wouldn't allow that.

[William Parcher]

Originally Posted by Correa Neto

Actually acouple of shows a bit similar to what atpeace would like to see were made. One of them included a guy in a bigfoot costume doing the "Patty walk" in front of a rather open-mouthed Meldrum and a mid-tarsal break debunk.

But it all boils down to audience.

Bigfoot enthusiasts are more profitable when you reinforce their faith.

How many people stopped believing that the PGF shows a real Bigfoot after they saw that guy replicate the Patty walking gait? Crickets.

How many people stopped believing that the PGF shows a real Bigfoot after they saw the mid-tarsal break debunked? Crickets.

How many people stopped believing that Bigfoot exists after they saw that program? Crickets.

[atpeace]

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

What reasonable argument could the believers make about tracks though? Tracks seem to be the height of the physical evidence.

I just can't see how they can rationally support any "evidence" they have.

They would have to resort to junk or woo, and a fair debate wouldn't allow that.

I don't think that should stop a program like I described, there are a lot more questions to ask oneself about tracks than can I point out the foot fakery used in the creation of this track convincingly to the footer. I would like to see those questions presented to an audience to show how to look at the whole picture, etc. Nor should what difference would it make to have a show like this stop a program like this either.

Maybe with lots of little purple pills, but I think it could be produced and be successful in its goal. The result, as always, is up to the public. I still think its important and needed.

[LuvGodzilla]

It honestly doesn't matter what reasonable arguments anyone has because it is entertainment TV and people will get whatever they want out of it whether that is reasonable or not. People want to be entertained more then educated which is why producers and production companies determine in the editing room what they feel the public wants out of their show.

As an example an excerpt from, Dual Survival's (TV Reality Show) Cody Lundin FAQ's:

Quote:

If these skills are faked or embellished and made to appear as fact on the show instead of entertainment, we have entered into an entirely different realm of accountability. Touting “edit room survival skills” as real survival skills can kill real people in real survival scenarios. In fairness to the networks, anyone who bases their preparedness program on a television show should probably leave the gene pool anyway.

[LTC8K6]

Originally Posted by atpeace

I don't think that should stop a program like I described, there are a lot more questions to ask oneself about tracks than can I point out the foot fakery used in the creation of this track convincingly to the footer. I would like to see those questions presented to an audience to show how to look at the whole picture, etc. Nor should what difference would it make to have a show like this stop a program like this either.

Maybe with lots of little purple pills, but I think it could be produced and be successful in its goal. The result, as always, is up to the public. I still think its important and needed.

Fine with me, I just think you will have to fund it yourself, because it will be a money loser.

[Correa Neto]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

How many people stopped believing that the PGF shows a real Bigfoot after they saw that guy replicate the Patty walking gait? Crickets.

How many people stopped believing that the PGF shows a real Bigfoot after they saw the mid-tarsal break debunked? Crickets.

How many people stopped believing that Bigfoot exists after they saw that program? Crickets.

Not fair! Crickets r not ppl!

Well, I could ask how many people (or crickets) started to believe in bigfoot (or UFOs, lake monsters, Atlantis, prophecies, etc.) after watching one of those woo shows.

I would be interested in seeing an unbiased profile of their audiences. I suspect most of the people who follow such shows already believe in the crap they sell or have a strong tendency towards buying it.

[William Parcher]

Of course to give the program balance and debate you'd have to include pro-Bigfoot scientists like Meldrum, Bindernagel, etc. who would be arguing (from science) that you cannot simply discount this evidence. Then you are right back to square one with the audience deciding which scientist they want to believe.

Debates about Bigfoot evidence seem to be never ending. There would have to be ruthless editing just to make a 1-hour program. You'd be giving incomplete arguments for both skeptics and believers.

You might also have a problem with Bigfooters cooperating with such a program format if they knew that it was all about debunking. As it is now, many Bigfooters are angry and disillusioned when they find out that their role in a program didn't accurately portray the extent to which their evidence or position is rock solid for Bigfoot (in their view).

[LTC8K6]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

Of course to give the program balance and debate you'd have to include pro-Bigfoot scientists like Meldrum, Bindernagel, etc. who would be arguing (from science) that you cannot simply discount this evidence. Then you are right back to square one with the audience deciding which scientist they want to believe.

Debates about Bigfoot evidence seem to be never ending. There would have to be ruthless editing just to make a 1-hour program. You'd be giving incomplete arguments for both skeptics and believers.

You might also have a problem with Bigfooters cooperating with such a program format if they knew that it was all about debunking. As it is now, many Bigfooters are angry and disillusioned when they find out that their role in a program didn't accurately portray the extent to which their evidence or position is rock solid for Bigfoot (in their view).

I think those pro-bigfoot scientists would have a difficult time making a proper argument from science.

Are there any examples of such?

[GT/CS]

Considering the audience demographics these shows target 'science' does not and will not come into play.

[William Parcher]

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

I think those pro-bigfoot scientists would have a difficult time making a proper argument from science.

Are there any examples of such?

Well we know that they use pseudoscience or even non-science. But they are scientists and they write books and go on TV. For many viewers, that is all that it takes to have it smell like science to them.

Then the program has to zoom off the Bigfoot topic and start analyzing the differences between real science and something else. Then you'll hear a cry for open minds and how real science and exploration requires that. Then Meldrum decides that he won't engage in a live recorded debate with an informed Bigfoot skeptic. Blah blah blah...

[William Parcher]

If they had me on that program it would be short and wouldn't require much editing.

If those witnesses were correct we'd already have a body by now.
If those tracks were real we'd already have a body by now.
If those films were real we'd already have a body by now.
If those audio recordings were real we'd already have a body by now.
Etc.

I would not get into any debates about the details or features of any particular piece of evidence. That is exactly what the believer wants to do. Argue over the same damn plaster cast for another 40 years.

[Drewbot]

I know that there is no DNA evidence forthcoming.

Animal planet would not renew a show called FINDING BIGFOOT, if bigfoot has been found.

[atpeace]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

Of course to give the program balance and debate you'd have to include pro-Bigfoot scientists like Meldrum, Bindernagel, etc. who would be arguing (from science) that you cannot simply discount this evidence. Then you are right back to square one with the audience deciding which scientist they want to believe.

Debates about Bigfoot evidence seem to be never ending. There would have to be ruthless editing just to make a 1-hour program. You'd be giving incomplete arguments for both skeptics and believers.

You might also have a problem with Bigfooters cooperating with such a program format if they knew that it was all about debunking. As it is now, many Bigfooters are angry and disillusioned when they find out that their role in a program didn't accurately portray the extent to which their evidence or position is rock solid for Bigfoot (in their view).

I am not in the process of creating a show like this nor do I have plans to in the future. And so i am simply not qualified or prepared to answer all of the valid questions that would surround the production and format of a show like this. But my ignorance (thankfully!) does not make a show like this an impossibility or a liability.

In my perfect little world, the reputation of TV isn't a concern of mine, as I said this would involve a complete change of the game plan.

I am just someone who would like to see something different than the same old that is Finding Bigfoot, which I think (Finding Bigfoot) is an absolutely perfect synopsis of bigfootery in general: The heirarchy, the shenanigans (and that is a polite term in my opinion), the "science", just everything

[parnassus]

MM says he's been doing this (with the same result) for 25 years. Isn't that sort of like the definition of crazy?

[GT/CS]

Only if he believes it, otherwise it's called a career.

[HarryHenderson]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

...Then Meldrum decides that he won't engage in a live recorded debate with an informed Bigfoot skeptic. Blah blah blah...

Is that true? Has he refused to do so? I'm hoping so as it just further proves his psychosis. For any of you 'scientists' out there, don't you ultimately want to show the 'scientific proof' of your work to as much of the masses/public as possible so as to show your contributions to society and/or your intellectual fortitude and prowess? Perhaps even 'debate' with them if necessary? Or are you more inclined to just wanting to prove it to other scientists? Curiously, scientist Meldrum is not doing any of that. And despite his numerous TV appearances, he's never once proven a single 'viable' thing about Bigfoot™. In fact, he seems totally happy just having his little throng of groupies that blindly cling to his every Bigfoot word, assertion or gesture. To that group, Bigfoot exists because of Jeff Meldrum, not in addition to him.

Originally Posted by atpeace

...I think (Finding Bigfoot) is an absolutely perfect synopsis of bigfootery in general: The heirarchy, the shenanigans (and that is a polite term in my opinion), the "science", just everything

I think that's an astute observation. That is what it is huh. And with the exact same end results too. Who'da thunk it!

[William Parcher]

Originally Posted by HarryHenderson

Is that true? Has he refused to do so?

That wasn't what I meant. I was still working with the hypothetical program. It's easy to imagine him declining the invitation. But I don't know what he would actually do.

AFAIK, he doesn't claim to have proof of Bigfoot existence. He says that the evidence is very compelling and that he does think it exists. Part of his conviction is based on his own personal encounters, though none were visual.

[mikeyx]

Originally Posted by HarryHenderson

Is that true? Has he refused to do so? I'm hoping so as it just further proves his psychosis. For any of you 'scientists' out there, don't you ultimately want to show the 'scientific proof' of your work to as much of the masses/public as possible so as to show your contributions to society and/or your intellectual fortitude and prowess? Perhaps even 'debate' with them if necessary? Or are you more inclined to just wanting to prove it to other scientists? Curiously, scientist Meldrum is not doing any of that. And despite his numerous TV appearances, he's never once proven a single 'viable' thing about Bigfoot™. In fact, he seems totally happy just having his little throng of groupies that blindly cling to his every Bigfoot word, assertion or gesture. To that group, Bigfoot exists because of Jeff Meldrum, not in addition to him.


I think that's an astute observation. That is what it is huh. And with the exact same end results too. Who'da thunk it!

I do agree with the fallacy of Meldrum worship. Rick Noll worship as well. He deserves none.

[atpeace]

Well, my Fourth is ruined. There is no new FB episode this weekend. They have a new team photo shot on AP with Bobo holding an evidence bag. I wanna see what he puts in there...any guesses?

[GT/CS]

Well there is another ridiculous program on called, "The Lost Evidence", or something like that.

[atpeace]

Originally Posted by GT/CS

Well there is another ridiculous program on called, "The Lost Evidence", or something like that.

I think I'll opt for a couple days on the lake lol, but maybe that is what's in Bobo's evidence bag.

[William Parcher]

Bobo spills his guts for Bigfooters...

Quote:

Thanks for the kind words everybody. I came into the shoot really tired already by wrapping up crab season and then I got poison oak the 1st day and it plagued me the rest of the shoot. so i wasn’t sleeping much from that and the shooting schedule was grueling. but the biggest part was fighting with the producers trying to keep it as real squatching as possible. so i hardly ever felt like myself.

like i said in an earlier post, the producers had no idea what they had really gotten themselves into. as long as we hit decent numbers they didn’t see any reason to change and they thought we, especially matt and i, were being unreasonably difficult.

i had no interest in making a show like the 1st three episodes and was going to bounce. but we had a big meeting with the producers, executive producers, animal planet and discovery execs and they agreed to mine and our demands. my main beef was inserting manufactured sounds and thermal recreations without identifying them as such. so we are going to bring ace outdoorsman and squatcher tyler bounds from washington with us for season 2. we are also going to start with the real squatching the 1st night and have tyler stay there the whole week running high quality audio recording gear. i will be allowed to stay out there with him 3 nights of the week with just us. or switch with cliff as i know he will wish to also. so right there that will give us the audio we need at least some of the time. they will also id thermal clips of cast as such. unfortunately their research has shown that 90% of the viewers don’t want to watch any scientific analysis of any evidence we obtain. i know the cast and everyone on here are most interested in that but like i said the average viewer doesn’t care so much. but they agreed to get it analyzed and the results will be on the animal planet website. so if you are interested you can see vocal analysis, meldrum’s critique of casts etc… and if enough people check the evidence out they will include it in the show itself.

so the cast got some concessions that will make the show more what we want. and i know it will help the ratings in the long run. and like the discovery exec said, if they wanted a scientist they would have hired one. so they want ‘the bobes’ more in season 2. so ask and you shall receive steve!!

[atpeace]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

Bobo spills his guts for Bigfooters...

Quote:
Thanks for the kind words everybody. I came into the shoot really tired already by wrapping up crab season and then I got poison oak the 1st day and it plagued me the rest of the shoot. so i wasn’t sleeping much from that and the shooting schedule was grueling. but the biggest part was fighting with the producers trying to keep it as real squatching as possible. so i hardly ever felt like myself.

like i said in an earlier post, the producers had no idea what they had really gotten themselves into. as long as we hit decent numbers they didn’t see any reason to change and they thought we, especially matt and i, were being unreasonably difficult.

i had no interest in making a show like the 1st three episodes and was going to bounce. but we had a big meeting with the producers, executive producers, animal planet and discovery execs and they agreed to mine and our demands. my main beef was inserting manufactured sounds and thermal recreations without identifying them as such. so we are going to bring ace outdoorsman and squatcher tyler bounds from washington with us for season 2. we are also going to start with the real squatching the 1st night and have tyler stay there the whole week running high quality audio recording gear. i will be allowed to stay out there with him 3 nights of the week with just us. or switch with cliff as i know he will wish to also. so right there that will give us the audio we need at least some of the time. they will also id thermal clips of cast as such. unfortunately their research has shown that 90% of the viewers don’t want to watch any scientific analysis of any evidence we obtain. i know the cast and everyone on here are most interested in that but like i said the average viewer doesn’t care so much. but they agreed to get it analyzed and the results will be on the animal planet website. so if you are interested you can see vocal analysis, meldrum’s critique of casts etc… and if enough people check the evidence out they will include it in the show itself.

so the cast got some concessions that will make the show more what we want. and i know it will help the ratings in the long run. and like the discovery exec said, if they wanted a scientist they would have hired one. so they want ‘the bobes’ more in season 2. so ask and you shall receive steve!!

bolding mine ap

I do believe he meant "fortunately"

[HarryHenderson]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

That wasn't what I meant. I was still working with the hypothetical program. It's easy to imagine him declining the invitation. But I don't know what he would actually do.

AFAIK, he doesn't claim to have proof of Bigfoot existence. He says that the evidence is very compelling and that he does think it exists. Part of his conviction is based on his own personal encounters, though none were visual.

My bad. I took another read and now see that. Actually, I think I was doing some wishful thinking. I know my disdain for Meldrum would have got a boost, if that's even possible, had it been true. And I am 100% convinced he'd decline such a gig...but then again, his ego seems to have 'assumed control'.

[LTC8K6]

They will be on PW Island in Alaska on tonight's episode....

[LTC8K6]

Bobo said there weren't any animals around, but you can hear a cacophony of creature noises in the background as he is saying this.

He also said that squatches cooperate to distract humans. If you get near one, another will make a noise to turn you around.

[LTC8K6]

They discover a small depression in mud that is filling in with water as they find it.

They claim they are right behind a juvenile bigfoot, and it must be the mother who made the noise earlier as a distraction.

They appear to make little effort to follow up.

[LTC8K6]

Large bigfoot up a tree, with big green eyes, throwing wood at cars.

[Howie Felterbush]

I'm watching this freshly minted turd right now, and my wife brought up an interesting question.

Is "Moneymaker" that guy's real name, or did he change it?

[LTC8K6]

It's his real name afaik.

The stories are getting worse and worse.

They have bigfoot standing on a branch that wouldn't hold it.

Bigfoot hiding behind a tree that wouldn't hide it.

They have a small depression filling in with water as they watch, meaning they are about 30 seconds behind whatever made it...

[LTC8K6]

They are spelling it Whales...

Now they have a boy telling of being surrounded by sasquatches while he was out hunting deer...

Footsteps thumped and trees moved...

[Howie Felterbush]

I like the guy commenting on Bobo's howling.

"He does a good call."

Really? Does it sound just like the real Bigfoot calls you have heard?

[LTC8K6]

The boy saw a 9 foot tall sasquatch...they are reassuring the kid that he did indeed see a sasquatch and that he's brave.

[LTC8K6]

They apparently don't think sasquatch can detect much of anything electronic. They are using laser beams to detect bigfoot crossing a perimeter.

[Howie Felterbush]

I don't know why the kid was scared, the program just assured me that one thing they have learned from years of studying these creatures is that deer are one of Bigfoot's primary food sources. They never eat fat kids.

[LTC8K6]

Night is when sasquatches come out to hunt deer...according to MM. That's why they have the laser perimeter set up, to catch the bigfoot following the deer.

[LTC8K6]

Oh boy! They have a perimeter alarm!

Is it a sasquatch?

Is it a leaf?

Is it a tree branch?

Is it a crew member?

Is it a bear?

Oh whatever could it be?

What will they claim it is?

I can't stand it, they went to a commercial.

[LTC8K6]

Darn, kinda skipped over it and went to calling and claiming to get a response...

[LTC8K6]

Ranae might have heard a "whoop", that no one else heard...

Ranae is feeling "creepy" again...

[LTC8K6]

Another odd show that didn't help their cause any.