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Tags barack obama , hyperbolic rhetoric , rush limbaugh , sean hannity

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Old 1st June 2011, 04:13 PM   #1
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Who calls Barack Obama "The Messiah" -- and why?

This thread is a spin-off from the thread "Who says that Obama is our smartest president ever?".

That thread is intended for examination of the claim that the media bombards us with hyperbolic claims about how intelligent Barack Obama is. But a number of off-topic posts in that thread are distracting from discussion of the actual topic. Therefore I am opening this new thread for the purpose of examining and discussing one such side-track: the question of who it is who refers to Barack Obama by labels such as "The Messiah", and what their reasons are for referring to him this way.

There are two distinct claims being made about this, and I'd like to see both of them examined in this thread.

Claim # 1. Claim # 1 is mine. In the OP to the thread, as background to discussion of who it is who is repeatedly referring to Barack Obama as the 'smartest president ever', I made the assertion that:

Originally Posted by Nova Land View Post
In the past, various right-wing humorists have referred to Barack Obama as "the Messiah" and "The Anointed One" -- part of a running gag in which they pretend that people on the left actually look upon and refer to Obama that way. A number of their listeners have actually fallen for the joke.

I did not think this was a particularly controversial assertion. Apparently it is. So in this thread I will present evidence in support of my assertion that people such as Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity routinely refer to Barack Obama as "The Messiah", "The Anointed One", and "The One" -- not because they actually believe that Barack Obama is the Messiah but in an attempt to mock Barack Obama and his followers.

Claim # 2. In addition to my claim that right-wing folks call Barack Obama "The Messiah" as a form of mockery", there is a separate claim which poster WithoutRights has put forward: that Barack Obama's supporters frequently refer to him as the Messiah.

This is the claim implicit (and often explicit) in Limbaugh's and Hannity's use of the term. It is also a claim which has been picked up and echoed by a number of people who have heard Limbaugh et. al. making these mocking comments and mistakenly believed the comments were serious and had a factual basis.

In my next post in this thread, I'll present evidence in support of my claim that prominent right-wingers frequently call Barack Obama "the Messiah" in an attempt to mock Obama's followers. Then, in my following post, I'll present the evidence posted so far by WithoutRights that it is Obama's followers who actually call him this, and will examine the quotes provided to see if they stand up to scrutiny.

I am responding to that evidence in this thread, rather than the thread in which it was posted, so that the claim and the evidence can get the attention they deserve without derailing the other thread. Since there are so many off-topic posts being made in the other thread, I would like to ask up front that people posting in this thread please stick with the topic of this thread.
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Old 1st June 2011, 04:16 PM   #2
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My claim is that right-wing folks such as Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity often refer to Barack Obama as "The Messiah" and "The Anointed One" in an effort to add humor to their attacks on Obama and his supporters.

I think this is easy to show. Hannity's use of "The Anointed One" as a reference to Obama is so well-known that there's even a Wikipedia listing or it:.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia
The Anointed One may refer to:

* The Messiah, or in a Christian context, Jesus Christ
...
* Barack Obama, a term used by Sean Hannity when referring to Barack Obama

Limbaugh's use of the term is also easy to document. Here are some links to transcripts of Rush Limbaugh calling Barack Obama "The Messiah".

1. "Fainting Again for the Messiah?"

Originally Posted by Rush Limbaugh
They're fainting again, by the way, for The Messiah. Again, yesterday afternoon in Bowie, Maryland, at Bowie State University while Obama was speaking...

When Obama was out there as the Messiah, all these people were swooning and fainting, and that's exactly what he said when it would happen during the campaign.

2. Obama's Strange Easter Remark

Originally Posted by Rush Limbaugh
The Messiah said something. This just sounds strange. Let me find it. It's Obama talking about Easter...

3. "Imagine President Palin Doing This"

Originally Posted by Rush Limbaugh
Hey, folks, let's pretend for just a second. Pretend that you are the smartest person in the room, the wisest person in the world. Pretend that you are Barack Obama, President of the United States. At this moment in time, what do you focus on?

... You're The Messiah! Tell me, what do you focus on? And what's the answer?

Gay marriage.

4. Rush Limbaugh: I'm shocked Obama 'was actually born'

Originally Posted by Rush Limbaugh (via WorldNetDaily)
"The two things about this that really shock me the most: one, that Obama was born at all. I thought it was a miraculous conception. And secondly, that his parents are actually mortals. Those are the two things I've really had a tough time believing. I mean, here they have presented this guy as 'the Messiah,' as 'the One,' and those people aren't born. They just descend from the heavens."

1. Does anyone want to dispute these are examples of Limbaugh referring to Obama as "the Messiah"?

2. Does anyone want to dispute that these are attempts at humor?

3. Does anyone want to dispute that a main point of Limbaugh's repeatedly referring to Obama as "the Messiah" is to try to paint Obama's supporters as the ones who consider Obama to be "the Messiah"?
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Old 1st June 2011, 04:19 PM   #3
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apparently, no one who is worth listening to.
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Old 1st June 2011, 04:21 PM   #4
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Without Rights posted the following quotations into the thread examining the claim that the media bombards us with the message that Barack Obama is the smartest president ever:

Originally Posted by Without Rights View Post
"You are the instruments that God is going to use to bring about universal change, and that is why Barack has captured the youth. And he has involved young people in a political process that they didn't care anything about. That's a sign. When the Messiah speaks, the youth will hear, and the Messiah is absolutely speaking."
Louis Farrakhan

"He's our product out of the all-knowing quantum field of intelligence"
Eve Konstantine

"He is not the Word made flesh, but the triumph of word over flesh, Obama is, at his best, able to call us back to our highest selves."
Ezra Klein

"There’s something else going on. I think that Obama, his election to the Senate, was divinely ordered. . . . I know that that was God’s plan."
Bill Rush

When Without Rights was asked the reason for posting these quotes, which appear unrelated to the thread topic, WR replied:

Originally Posted by Without Rights View Post
It is unrelated to the title but not the opening post.

Quote:
In the past, various right-wing humorists have referred to Barack Obama as "the Messiah" and "The Anointed One" -- part of a running gag in which they pretend that people on the left actually look upon and refer to Obama that way. A number of their listeners have actually fallen for the joke. My guess is that this is something similar.

The quotes I posted proved this to be false. Not only in the "messiah" aspect but also in the intelligence aspect, calling him a product of all-knowing quantum field of intelligence".
So, do the quotes Without Reason posted demonstrate that people other than right-wing humorists are referring to Barack Obama as "the Messiah"? Let's examine them one by one.
1. "You are the instruments that God is going to use to bring about universal change, and that is why Barack has captured the youth. And he has involved young people in a political process that they didn't care anything about. That's a sign. When the Messiah speaks, the youth will hear, and the Messiah is absolutely speaking."
No, this quote does not. The quote mentions Barack Obama; the quote mentions God (aka the Messiah); but there is no equation of Barack Obama with God. A plain reading of this passage is that the speaker believes God is speaking to young people, encouraging them to be politically active. The particular political activity the speaker hopes they will engage, and which the speaker thinks is in line with God's plans, is campaigning for Barack Obama.
2. "He's our product out of the all-knowing quantum field of intelligence"
No, this quote does not. It indicates that Obama is a "product... of the all-knowing quantum field of intelligence" (whatever that means). It says nothing about Obama himself being all-knowing or godlike.

If anyone other than Without Rights is having trouble understanding why the quote does not say Obama is the Messiah, let me provide a simple and perhaps more familiar example. Many people believe God is all-knowing and all-powerful. Many people believe God created the universe and all the people within -- that we are all products an all-knowing all-powerful God. And yet, when people who hold those beliefs say that Adam was created by God, they do not generally mean that Adam was God.
3. "He is not the Word made flesh, but the triumph of word over flesh, Obama is, at his best, able to call us back to our highest selves."

No, this quote does not. Quite the contrary, it explicitly says that Obama is not "the Word made flesh" (which is Christian language for Jesus, aka the Messiah. Rather, Obama is "a triumph of word over flesh".

If one goes to the original source of that quotation, one can see clearly that it is a short article in which Klein is praising Obama as an eloquent speaker. The person to whom Klein explicitly compares Obama is not Jesus; it is Robert Kennedy.
4. "There’s something else going on. I think that Obama, his election to the Senate, was divinely ordered. . . . I know that that was God’s plan."
Note to Without Rights: It would be good, before offering up things as evidence, if you took the time to look them up and check them out. If you had done this, you would have discovered that this is not by "Bill Rush", whom you erroneously attribute this to. It is by Bobby Rush, a congressional representative from Illinois (and one whose seat Barack Obama competed for, in the 2000 primary; congressman Rush soundly defeated challenger Obama at the polls).

In addition to being a congressman, Bobby Rush is also a Baptist minister. His saying that Obama's defeat in 2000 and his triumph in 2008 were part of God's plan is familiar Christian rhetoric. Saying that somebody is serving God's purposes is not, in Christian rhetoric, the same as saying that person is God.

Here is a link to a newspaper story in which this quote appears. (The quote appears on page 3 of the story, but I've started you at the beginning of the story so you can get used to the idea of reading the whole story rather than simply the parts that are fed to you.)

As you can see if you take the time to read it, this is yet another example of someone not calling Barack Obama the Messiah. And your use of it is another example of someone who has not actually bothered to look up the quote or to read it carefully passing it along as if it were an example of someone calling Obama the Messiah, when it clearly is not.

Which serves to illustrate my point:

(a) The people who have called Barack Obama the Messiah are primarily right-wing critics of Obama such as Rush Limbaugh.

(b) Their purpose is to mock Obama and his supporters, by pretending that his supporters regard him as a Messiah-like figure.

(c) A number of people who have heard this claim made repeatedly have taken it seriously, and have repeated it themselves (as Without Rights did) without realizing it is humor and 'not intended to be a factual statement'.
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Old 1st June 2011, 04:22 PM   #5
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Rush, as well as other pundits, mostly right but including left wing, often coin insulting names for the politicians they don't like. Keith Olberman used to do this too. Occasionally those epithets make it into this forum (we used to have a member who always referred to Hillary Clinton as "Snipery".) That's just politics. I think that those of us who like to engage in rational debate will eschew these insulting appelations in the interest of civil discussion.

Then again, "Sick Rantorum" is my favorite.
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Old 1st June 2011, 04:30 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Tricky View Post
Rush, as well as other pundits, mostly right but including left wing, often coin insulting names for the politicians they don't like. Keith Olberman used to do this too. Occasionally those epithets make it into this forum (we used to have a member who always referred to Hillary Clinton as "Snipery".) That's just politics. I think that those of us who like to engage in rational debate will eschew these insulting appelations in the interest of civil discussion.

I agree with what you say. But I would like to request that you make this point in another thread, rather than in this one.

This thread is intended as a place to discuss a particular question: whether it is supporters of Barack Obama who commonly refer to him as "the Messiah" (as some claim) or it is critics of Barack Obama who commonly refer to him this way (as I claim).

It should be noted the two claims are not mutually exclusive. I believe I have demonstrated that this label is commonly applied to Obama by Limbaugh and Hannity; but it is certainly possible it is also commonly applied to Obama by Obama supporters.

So far I haven't seen any convincing evidence of the latter. But that's what this thread is for. I would welcome contributions from you, either presenting evidence on the matter, critiquing the evidence I've presented, or critiquing the evidence Without Rights has put forward. But please try to stick to the topic. Thanks!
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Old 1st June 2011, 04:35 PM   #7
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Yeah, I confess to calling Sarah Palin "Snowflake Snookie" on more that one occasion.
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Old 1st June 2011, 04:44 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Nova Land View Post
I agree with what you say. But I would like to request that you make this point in another thread, rather than in this one.

This thread is intended as a place to discuss a particular question: whether it is supporters of Barack Obama who commonly refer to him as "the Messiah" (as some claim) or it is critics of Barack Obama who commonly refer to him this way (as I claim).

It should be noted the two claims are not mutually exclusive. I believe I have demonstrated that this label is commonly applied to Obama by Limbaugh and Hannity; but it is certainly possible it is also commonly applied to Obama by Obama supporters.

So far I haven't seen any convincing evidence of the latter. But that's what this thread is for. I would welcome contributions from you, either presenting evidence on the matter, critiquing the evidence I've presented, or critiquing the evidence Without Rights has put forward. But please try to stick to the topic. Thanks!
Okay, well I'll back off, but I have to say that I have never heard any Obama supporter refer to him as "the chosen one" or "messiah". If these terms are not exclusively used by Obama detractors, it is certainly overwhelmingly one-sided.
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Old 1st June 2011, 04:49 PM   #9
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It's also at least partly projection and/or hypocrisy on the part of certain right-wingers.

Just look at this cover for National Review, when Sarah Palin first came on the scene in the 2008 election.

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Old 1st June 2011, 04:52 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Yeah, I confess to calling Sarah Palin "Snowflake Snookie" on more that one occasion.
I confess, I too have heard Unabogie refer to Palin as "Snowflake Snookie" on more than one occasion.
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Old 1st June 2011, 05:05 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Nova Land View Post

3. Does anyone want to dispute that a main point of Limbaugh's repeatedly referring to Obama as "the Messiah" is to try to paint Obama's supporters as the ones who consider Obama to be "the Messiah"?
I will go so far as to speculate that Limbaugh might be trying to get his listeners to believe that President Obama refers to himself in those terms. After all, in another thread, I pointed out that a Harris poll in 2010 said that 24% of Republicans agree with the statement that "Obama may be the Anti-Christ." Painting him as a blasphemer makes it easier to label him as not really being a true Christian.
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Old 1st June 2011, 06:22 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
I will go so far as to speculate that Limbaugh might be trying to get his listeners to believe that President Obama refers to himself in those terms.

Very good point.

I have not had the free time to be able to listen to either Limbaugh or Hannity in quite a long time -- not since last summer. But I think you are right; when I have been able to listen, and when I have heard them make "Messiah" references, that did seem to be one of the implications. Or so I vaguely think I recollect.

Can someone who is a more regular listener to Limbaugh than I am address this? If this is true, it would be good to have confirmation.
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Old 1st June 2011, 06:30 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Ladewig View Post
~~~~~~~
. After all, in another thread, I pointed out that a Harris poll in 2010 said that 24% of Republicans agree with the statement that "Obama may be the Anti-Christ."
~~~.
He's not the Anti-Christ. he's just a naughty little boy
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Old 1st June 2011, 08:29 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Nova Land View Post
Very good point.

I have not had the free time to be able to listen to either Limbaugh or Hannity in quite a long time -- not since last summer. But I think you are right; when I have been able to listen, and when I have heard them make "Messiah" references, that did seem to be one of the implications. Or so I vaguely think I recollect.
Maybe, but I'm not so sure. A local sports radio guy, Dan Barreiro, calls Joe Mauer "Baby Jesus" as a way to mock the local fans who, in his mind, went too ga-ga over the young man, before he even really proved himself. When Brett Favre came to the Vikings, he piggybacked off of Mauer and called him "Baby Cheesus," again making fun of the local fans' seeming worship of the guy. So I think Rush could just as well have been mocking Obama's supporters and little more.

But then, Barreiro probably thinks more highly of his audience's intelligence than Rush does of his.

Quote:
Can someone who is a more regular listener to Limbaugh than I am address this? If this is true, it would be good to have confirmation.
Can't help you there.

Last edited by Snide; 1st June 2011 at 08:30 PM. Reason: added a name
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Old 23rd January 2017, 01:09 PM   #15
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Well, six years ago this thread was a spin-off of the thread "Who says that Obama is our smartest president ever?".

Today I'm bumping it as a spin-off of a post by sunmaster14 in his "SNL Tribute to Obama" thread in which sunmaster wrote:

Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
... the liberal media, which includes most of the entertainment industry, saw Obama as some sort of messiah.

Six years ago I presented evidence in the 2nd post of this thread that the claim about liberals calling Obama the messiah was an attempt at humor by right-wing talk show hosts such as Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, and not a true observation about liberals or the liberal media. Rather than re-post that evidence in a new thread, I thought it would be simpler to bump this one.

I'm surprised anyone still thinks that what Limbaugh, Hannity, and others said about liberals thinking Obama is the messiah is factual, but if sunmaster seriously believes this then here's a chance to present evidence to support the claim.
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Old 23rd January 2017, 01:19 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Nova Land View Post
My claim is that right-wing folks such as Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity often refer to Barack Obama as "The Messiah" and "The Anointed One" in an effort to add humor to their attacks on Obama and his supporters.
.....
Of course, "the Messiah" was a right-wing sneer. There's no dispute. It's self-evident. Obama's supporters certainly never called him that, and in fact his supporters often were critical of his relatively moderate positions on most issues. What are you trying to prove?

ETA: I failed to note the date of the initial post. Never mind.
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Old 23rd January 2017, 02:15 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Nova Land View Post
Well, six years ago this thread was a spin-off of the thread "Who says that Obama is our smartest president ever?".

Today I'm bumping it as a spin-off of a post by sunmaster14 in his "SNL Tribute to Obama" thread in which sunmaster wrote:




Six years ago I presented evidence in the 2nd post of this thread that the claim about liberals calling Obama the messiah was an attempt at humor by right-wing talk show hosts such as Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, and not a true observation about liberals or the liberal media. Rather than re-post that evidence in a new thread, I thought it would be simpler to bump this one.

I'm surprised anyone still thinks that what Limbaugh, Hannity, and others said about liberals thinking Obama is the messiah is factual, but if sunmaster seriously believes this then here's a chance to present evidence to support the claim.
I agree that when the right wing media refer to Obama as "the Messiah", they are mocking the left for fawning over Obama. They're not claiming that people on the left actually utter the words "I think Obama is the Messiah" - of course they don't. The right wing pundits are just making fun of what they see as an almost worshipful view toward the Obama family by many on the left, a view which I also hold. I'm not sure what sun master's view is, but seeing that he prefaced the word "messiah" with the phrase "some sort of", I think his thoughts may be similar.
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Old 23rd January 2017, 02:24 PM   #18
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If these are the claims:
Originally Posted by CLAIM 1
In the past, various right-wing humorists have referred to Barack Obama as "the Messiah" and "The Anointed One" -- part of a running gag in which they pretend that people on the left actually look upon and refer to Obama that way. A number of their listeners have actually fallen for the joke.
Originally Posted by CLAIM 2
Barack Obama's supporters frequently refer to him as the Messiah.
I'd mark them both as false.

I'd say the following, edited version of claim 1 is true.

Originally Posted by CLAIM 3
In the past, various right-wing humorists have referred to Barack Obama as "the messiah" and "the anointed one" -- part of a running gag in which they pretend that people on the left actually look upon Obama that way.
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Old 23rd January 2017, 02:26 PM   #19
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I've encountered the "We're gonna get ours now that Trump is president" from some wackos on the IMDB webboards.

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Old 23rd January 2017, 02:39 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
I agree that when the right wing media refer to Obama as "the Messiah", they are mocking the left for fawning over Obama. They're not claiming that people on the left actually utter the words "I think Obama is the Messiah" - of course they don't. The right wing pundits are just making fun of what they see as an almost worshipful view toward the Obama family by many on the left, a view which I also hold.
Meanwhile, people on the right actually do call Trump the Messiah, so this appears to be yet more projection.
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Old 23rd January 2017, 02:42 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
Meanwhile, people on the right actually do call Trump the Messiah, so this appears to be yet more projection.
Who cares? You can probably find a quote of someone calling Obama the messiah if you've got some spare time.

I was just answering the OPs question.
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Old 23rd January 2017, 03:06 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Who cares? You can probably find a quote of someone calling Obama the messiah if you've got some spare time.
Were any of those people calling Obama the messiah writing at major right-wing websites big enough to have a reporter included in the White House Press Corps, like WND?
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Old 23rd January 2017, 03:12 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Who cares? You can probably find a quote of someone calling Obama the messiah if you've got some spare time.

You can probably find a quote of some random poster on the internet calling Obama the messiah if you've got some spare time. But that's not what we're talking about.

The claim made 6 years ago (and which sunmaster14 has revived) is that the liberal media considered Obama a messiah figure -- someone head and shoulders above the rest of us, someone super-smart, someone here to do miraculous things to save us and our country and the world. And that's the claim which, 6 years ago, no one was able to provide evidence for. I've bumped this thread so that, if sunmaster14 really does think the liberal media regards Obama that way, he can post evidence to demonstrate they do. (Or, if sunmaster doesn't seriously believe that, he can post clarifying what he really meant.)

A'isha's links are not to random posters on the internet. One of them, for instance, is a featured "WND [WorldNetDaily] exclusive". WND is a prominent right-wing media site.

The references to Obama as messiah were almost exclusively from right-wing sites, not the liberal media. (The references to Trump as messiah also look to be from right-wing sites, but this time they're serious.)

If you think can find quotes from the liberal media seriously referring to Obama as a messiah, I'd like to see them. When you have spare time to do the search, of course. I suspect it will take more of your spare time than you seem to think.


edited to add: Oops! In the time it took me to write out my long-winded post, A'isha said it shorter and better.

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Old 23rd January 2017, 03:28 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Nova Land View Post
The claim made 6 years ago (and which sunmaster14 has revived) is that the liberal media considered Obama a messiah figure
Why did you make such a point of highlighting the other two claims if you think this is the important one?

If you want me to try and convince you that the liberal media considered Obama a messiah figure then you're right, I'll take a pass. There's just too much wiggle room in there - Who is the liberal media? How many examples need to be shown for the claim to be accepted? What constitutes a hit? Etc, etc. I see this as turning into a 20 page thread arguing over semantics and such.
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Old 23rd January 2017, 03:33 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Why did you make such a point of highlighting the other two claims if you think this is the important one?

If you want me to try and convince you that the liberal media considered Obama a messiah figure then you're right, I'll take a pass. There's just too much wiggle room in there - Who is the liberal media? How many examples need to be shown for the claim to be accepted? What constitutes a hit? Etc, etc. I see this as turning into a 20 page thread arguing over semantics and such.
I think "a media outlet major enough to have a reporter in the White House Press Corps, like WND" is a pretty good metric. Let's start there.
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Old 23rd January 2017, 03:43 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
I think "a media outlet major enough to have a reporter in the White House Press Corps, like WND" is a pretty good metric. Let's start there.
Let's "start there", huh? A sneaky way to say that even with I were to provide that, you'd remain unconvinced. Nice try, but I'm seeing nothing but wiggle room.

It seems you've got a new claim you want justified. Tell mw the exact claim and what you would consider justification. We'll start there.
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Old 23rd January 2017, 07:13 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Why did you make such a point of highlighting the other two claims if you think this is the important one?

I highlighted those two claims six years ago because those were the ones which were relevant then to what users BeAChooser and Without Rights had posted.

Six years later those two claims, I believe, are largely settled. No one at the time this thread was posted (or the thread it spun off of) was able to produce any substantive evidence to show that supporters of Barack Obama commonly referred to him as the messiah, and I haven't seen anyone produce that evidence in the years since either.

The evidence then (and now) is that the references to Obama as the messiah were made by right-wing media, not by Barack Obama's supporters; that right-wing media falsely claimed that Obama's supporters and the media considered him a messiah; and that people in right-wing echo chambers repeated this frequently during the 2012 election campaign even though it wasn't true.

Today I bumped this thread to give sunmaster14 a chance to defend his recent claim that the liberal media sees Obama as a messiah. That's a slightly different claim than the one 6 years ago (that his supporters commonly referred to him as the messiah), but they're closely related; and bumping this thread saved me the time it would take to re-post the examples provided in post # 2 (or look up additional examples) of right-wing media referring to Obama as the messiah and falsely claiming this was how his supporters viewed him.

I highlighted the phrases some random poster on the internet and the liberal media in my reply to you to try to help you understand better the error you made in your comment.

Neither the claim made 6 years ago (that supporters of Barack Obama commonly referred to him as the messiah) nor the claim made recently by sunmaster14 (that the liberal media sees Obama as a messiah) says that somewhere sometime some random person on the internet called Obama the messiah, which is what your comment said you could show. I'm sorry my highlighting did not make that clear to you, but I hope it's clear now.

Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
If you want me to try and convince you that the liberal media considered Obama a messiah figure then you're right, I'll take a pass.

That's probably a wise decision on your part; the evidence to support such a claim just isn't there.
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Old 23rd January 2017, 07:23 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
... I'd say the following, edited version of claim 1 is true.

Quote:
In the past, various right-wing humorists have referred to Barack Obama as "the messiah" and "the anointed one" -- part of a running gag in which they pretend that people on the left actually look upon Obama that way.

Your editing is to delete the statement: "A number of their listeners have actually fallen for the joke."

You may be right. I'm not a mind-reader, so I can't know whether the many right-wingers who have echoed the claim that Obama's supporters and/or the liberal media commonly refer to him as a messiah actually believed what they were saying [i.e. were gullible] or knew it was false but repeated it anyway to annoy liberals [i.e. were dishonest and obnoxious].

For example, I don't know whether BeAChooser actually believed 6 years ago that Obama supporters and the media commonly called Obama the smartest man alive. (And since BeAChooser was banned, there's no easy way to ask him whether he really believed it then and, if so, whether he still believes it.) I don't know whether Without Rights actually believed 6 years ago that Obama supporters commonly considered him a messiah. (And since Without Rights hasn't posted here for more than 5 years, there's no easy way to ask him either.)

Similarly I don't know whether sunmaster14 actually believes now that the liberal media sees Obama as a messiah. But I do know that's what he posted, and that it appears to be as false now as it was 6 years ago.

Since I can't read people's minds I'm inclined to take them at their word unless/until evidence indicates otherwise. So I'm going to assume that really is what sunmaster14 believes unless/until he indicates otherwise.

Because the question of what Sunmaster really believes is beside the point. The question I'm interested is not whether sunmaster believes the media regards Obama as a messiah, it's whether the media regards Obama as a messiah. So far no evidence has been produced to support that claim (although various excuses for not producing evidence have been provided).
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Old 23rd January 2017, 07:41 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
I think "a media outlet major enough to have a reporter in the White House Press Corps, like WND" is a pretty good metric. Let's start there.
Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Let's "start there", huh? A sneaky way to say that even with I were to provide that, you'd remain unconvinced.

No, I think what A'isha has suggested is a very good starting point if you (or anyone else) is actually interested in attempting to provide evidence to support the claim.

It's funny, but your reply to A'isha reminds me a lot of the reply people who believe in the paranormal commonly give when asked by skeptics to provide evidence for dowsing, or homeopathy, or remote viewing, or whatever their particular belief is. Well, of course we could provide evidence, but even if we did you skeptics wouldn't accept it and would just find new demands to make so we're not going to bother.

You don't need to defend the claim if you're not interested. But if you are, and if the claim is true, it shouldn't be hard to do. As I wrote 6 years ago, in regard to the claim that Obama's supporters commonly referred to him as the smartest man alive:

Originally Posted by Nova Land View Post
... It appears to be a common belief on the right that the media are in the tank for Obama and that they routinely present hyperbolic statements along the lines that Barack Obama is the smartest president ever. I started this thread so that we could see if there is evidence to justify such a belief.

It's a simple question which should be fairly easy to resolve. Either there are plentiful examples of news stories quoting people making such a statement or of op-ed pieces making such statements (in which case the claim is true); or there aren't (in which case the claim is false).

The question is not whether anyone ever has made such a statement. The question is whether this is a common statement that we are bombarded with. So far the evidence is that it is not.


As BAC demonstrates about the only examples of people actually saying this are random internet posters in anonymous comment threads. It does not appear to be something which is being said by prominent Democrats, prominent liberals, or prominent media figures. One does not find it being said on NPR programs, on PBS programs, on ABC or NBC or CBS or CNN -- or at least BAC wasn't able to...

I'd say 5 to 10 good examples of prominent people in the liberal media speaking about Obama reverentially as a messiah should be enough to demonstrate to a reasonable person that this is a view commonly held in the liberal media.

If it's a commonly expressed view then finding 5 to 10 good examples should be easy, so if anything other than good examples is offered up instead (as BAC attempted to do 6 years ago regarding the smartest president ever claim) then that's a good indicator the claim is false.
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Old 23rd January 2017, 09:16 PM   #30
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What a ridiculous bump of an old thread. It's like raising a strawman from the dead, just so you can attack him again. I never said anything like what you claimed, so just leave me out of it. Here's a helpful link for the future. I suggest you study it.
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Old 23rd January 2017, 09:35 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
I never said anything like what you claimed, so just leave me out of it.

Really? Here is what I quoted you as posting, both in the thread in which you originally posted it and in this thread (post # 15):

Originally Posted by sunmaster14
... the liberal media, which includes most of the entertainment industry, saw Obama as some sort of messiah.

If by saying the liberal media saw Obama as some sort of messiah -- a claim which was made frequently in right-wing blogs and echo chambers during the 2012 election, and which I assume you were not oblivious -- you did not mean that the liberal media saw Obama as some sort of messiah, then what did you mean when you said it?

I can understand your not wanting to defend the claim by providing evidence for it, since (as we saw 6 years ago) the evidence isn't there.

If you want to say you didn't mean what you said, go ahead. State clearly that you understand the liberal media does not see Obama as some sort of messiah, and state clearly what you actually meant when you said they did, and I'm willing to believe you.
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Old 23rd January 2017, 11:01 PM   #32
sir drinks-a-lot
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Originally Posted by Nova Land View Post
Today I bumped this thread to give sunmaster14 a chance to defend his recent claim that the liberal media sees Obama as a messiah. That's a slightly different claim than the one 6 years ago (that his supporters commonly referred to him as the messiah), but they're closely related;
No, they're not. Calling them "slightly different claims" is silly. There's a big, big difference between the two, and I already said upthread that I don't believe that Obama's supporters commonly referred to him as the messiah. I don't think you'll find many people who do, unless you go way out of your way to look for them. If WithoutRights (whoever that is) didn't respond to your request, reward yourself one Internet point and move on.
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Old 23rd January 2017, 11:10 PM   #33
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Well, with Pence as VP and Friedman as Ambassador to Israel, Trump has two Evangelical Christian Zionists actively working fulfil the Promise of Moses as a requisite to the End of the World.
No wonder he is considered to be heaven sent.
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Old 23rd January 2017, 11:35 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Calling them "slightly different claims" is silly.

No. They all stem from Limbaugh, Hannity, and co. falsely claiming that people were swooning over Obama and regarding him as almost the second coming. One version was that Obama's supporters regarded him that way. Another was that the liberal media regarded him that way. I see those as being very similar.

Quote:
There's a big, big difference between the two...

It would help if you stated clearly what you think that difference is.

Quote:
... I already said upthread that I don't believe that Obama's supporters commonly referred to him as the messiah.

You're right, they didn't. I'm glad we can agree on that.

Quote:
I don't think you'll find many people who do, unless you go way out of your way to look for them.

Again, you're right. There weren't many people who referred to Obama as a messiah, and virtually all of them were right-wingers doing so in mockery of the large numbers of Obama supporters who (they falsely claimed) regarded him that way.

Quote:
If WithoutRights (whoever that is) didn't respond to your request, reward yourself one Internet point and move on.

Without Rights was a poster here from 2007 through 2011. He did respond to my request for evidence supporting his claim that Obama supporters considered Obama to be like a messiah. He originally posted his evidence in the thread this thread spins off of, and I reprinted the examples he provided in post # 4 of the thread you're reading now. As you can see if you take the time to read that post, his evidence did not stand up to scrutiny.

That was 6 years ago. The reason I bumped this thread is so that sunmaster14, who yesterday made a similar claim (that the liberal media regards Obama as some sort of messiah) can present evidence to support that claim. So far he's been as unable to do so as Without Rights was -- and less willing to even attempt it. Without Rights actually seems to have believed what he was claiming; it's starting to look like sunmaster14 may be aware the claim is false.

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Old 24th January 2017, 05:27 AM   #35
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This is a call-out bump thread?
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Old 24th January 2017, 06:00 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Nova Land View Post
Really? Here is what I quoted you as posting, both in the thread in which you originally posted it and in this thread (post # 15):




If by saying the liberal media saw Obama as some sort of messiah -- a claim which was made frequently in right-wing blogs and echo chambers during the 2012 election, and which I assume you were not oblivious -- you did not mean that the liberal media saw Obama as some sort of messiah, then what did you mean when you said it?

I can understand your not wanting to defend the claim by providing evidence for it, since (as we saw 6 years ago) the evidence isn't there.

If you want to say you didn't mean what you said, go ahead. State clearly that you understand the liberal media does not see Obama as some sort of messiah, and state clearly what you actually meant when you said they did, and I'm willing to believe you.
I stand by what I wrote. I didn't mean it literally because most people (or at least liberals) don't actually literally believe in a messiah. But they can believe in one figuratively, and that's the way I meant it. It's true. Take a look here:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


or here:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE



And applecorped is right. This is a ridiculous call out thread.

ETA:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


And the ridiculous celebrity pledge video:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE



OMG, I had forgotten how bad it really was. I actually have to thank Nova Land for refreshing my memory even though his intentions were less than noble.

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Old 24th January 2017, 06:57 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
This is a call-out bump thread?

No. This is a thread to examine the claim sunmaster14 recently made that the liberal media regards Obama as some sort of messiah.

Since this thread already existed and had examined the related claim that Barack Obama's supporters regard him as some sort of messiah, I thought bumping this thread and re-starting it would save some time. Evidence was presented in the first few posts of this thread that the people who call Obama a messiah have been almost exclusively right-wingers, and that the quotes claimed to be examples of left-wingers calling Obama a messiah don't stand up to scrutiny, so using this thread meant not having to cover some of that ground again.

But in the thread in which sunmaster made the claim I offered him the choice of having the discussion in this thread or starting a brand-new thread:

Originally Posted by Nova Land View Post
I realize certain right-wing talk-show hosts liked to make jokes about Obama being "the messiah" and "the anointed one" back in the 2008 and 2012 election campaigns, and that certain of their listeners were gullible enough to believe this was something Obama's supporters were calling him, but I thought even most right-wingers had realized by now this was an attempt at humor by the various Limbaugh-types who were repeating it.

We had a couple of threads related to this back in 2011.

One of them, which I started, was intended as an examination of the claim that liberals were constantly telling us that Barack Obama is the smartest president ever, which conservative poster BeAChooser had made. BeAChooser was able to provide examples of right-wing media making the claim that liberals were always saying this but was not able to provide actual examples of liberals saying this.

In writing the OP for that thread I made a reference to the messiah claim as well... One of the posters in that thread wanted to discuss the messiah claim, so I spun that off into a thread of its own ("Who calls Barack Obama the messiah -- and why?") so we could examine that claim as well.

In that thread I presented evidence in support of my claim that "people such as Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity routinely refer to Barack Obama as 'The Messiah', 'The Anointed One', and 'The One' -- not because they actually believe that Barack Obama is the Messiah but in an attempt to mock Barack Obama and his followers", and I invited anyone who could to provide evidence in support of the echo chamber claim that Barack Obama's supporters frequently refer to him as the Messiah. No one was able to provide any substantive evidence in support of the latter claim.

I've bumped that thread for your benefit, so that you can present evidence now to support the claim if you seriously believe it's true. (Or, if posting in a 6-year-old thread doesn't appeal to you, we can start a brand-new thread to discuss it.)

That's not a call-out. It's an invitation to examine a claim which was made and an opportunity for the person making the claim (or anyone else) to provide evidence in support of the claim. (Which is sort of the point of skepticism.)
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Old 24th January 2017, 06:58 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
This is a call-out bump thread?
Agreed.
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Old 24th January 2017, 07:13 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
I stand by what I wrote. I didn't mean it literally because most people (or at least liberals) don't actually literally believe in a messiah. But they can believe in one figuratively, and that's the way I meant it.

Back in 2011, and today in 2017, it was quite clear to those of us challenging the claim that right-wingers were speaking figuratively in referring to Obama as a messiah. They meant that Obama supporters had a super-exaggerated view of his intelligence and abilities and viewed him as someone who could and would almost-magically fix all our problems. That appears to be the same claim you're making in regard to the "liberal media". So yes, that is the claim you need to provide evidence for.

Quote:
It's true. Take a look here...

No. That's like the Kennedy assassination conspiracy believers or near death experience believers who, when challenged to provide evidence to support their belief, hand one a thick book and say, here, read this, it'll explain it. (And yes, I've had that happen.) My answer to you is the same as my answer to them: if you believe there is evidence in there to support your claim, then find it and quote it (or paraphrase it) for me.

I'm not going to read an entire book (or watch a bunch of videos) in order to hunt for whatever it is you think is in there which is evidence. It's your claim; if the evidence is there, it's your job to present it, not my job to dig for it. And no amount of blustering about how "how bad it really was" changes that.

If there really are examples of liberal media figures saying things which demonstrate they consider Obama some sort of messiah, it's not hard for you to identify which media figures they are and quote what they said which demonstrates this. So far you have still failed to do this.

It's possible such examples genuinely can be found in the videos you've posted. It's also possible that you, like many others before you, are metaphorically posting a link to an entire book and saying here, read this because you know that actually quoting or paraphrasing the specific passages addressing the topic would not be very convincing. I look forward to you demonstrating which it is.

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Old 24th January 2017, 09:20 AM   #40
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I'm back inside for a few minutes. Couldn't resist turning computer on (a mistake, I know -- but curiosity trumps sense a lot of the time.)

I see there's still no evidence posted that the liberal media regards Obama as some sort of messiah. (For those not familiar with skepticism, what's needed are examples of prominent liberal media figures who supposedly regard Obama as a messiah and examples of instances when they've demonstrated this -- preferably with links to transcripts of quoted remarks so we can examine these in context to see how well they stand up.)

Meanwhile, while we're waiting for evidence that the liberal media does regard Obama as some sort of messiah, here's some counter-evidence which came up 6 years ago that indicates the liberal media does not idolize Obama.

This was part of a discussion of the claim that Obama's supporters were constantly calling him the smartest president ever. An example was offered of a quote from Michael Beschloss, who was on the Don Imus radio show, was asked what Obama's IQ was:

Quote:
Imus: What is his IQ?

Beschloss: Uh. I would say it’s probably – he’s probably the smartest guy ever to become President.

Beschloss said that in November 2008. When I googled to look it up in 2011 there were scads and scads of right-wing sites featuring the quote but I didn't see any Obama supporters or liberal media in the list.

If the liberal media or Obama supporters really did have an exaggeratedly-high opinion of Obama one would expect them to be trumpeting quotes like this, or at least featuring them occasionally on their sites. But no -- only right-wing sites appeared to be trumpeting it. That's a good indication that the idea the liberal media regards Obama as some godlike figure high way above the rest of us in intelligence and skills is a fantasy created and promulgated by people on the right. If sunmaster or someone else at some point chooses to post any actual quotes they think illustrate how the liberal media regards Obama as some sort of messiah, that's a good test we can apply to those examples as well when we examine them.

Okay, time for me to turn computer back off and get back to work.
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