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dafydd · 23rd January 2012, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

Therefore your default position is that all deities exist?

Really???

OCaptain does not answer questions, it seems. This thread is progressing in an all too familiar fashion.

joobz · 23rd January 2012, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

Therefore your default position is that all deities exist?

Really???

Perhaps we've discovered the source of dark matter.

OCaptain · 23rd January 2012, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by dafydd

It would take a lifetime for an atheist to investigate every god that mankind has invented. Let's leave it to the theists to come up with proof. I won't be holding my breath, they have had thousands of years and not a shred has been forthcoming.

Well to be fair, atheists haven't been demanding proof until comparatively recently....

dafydd · 23rd January 2012, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by OCaptain

Well to be fair, atheists haven't been demanding proof until comparatively recently....

No. Atheists have always been asking for proof. We will take it that you are not going to answer any questions. Par for the course with people like you.

Akhenaten · 23rd January 2012, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by OCaptain

Am posting on an iPod. Give me longer than 10 minutes. Rome wasn't built in a day, you know.

Unlike Nazareth which was zapped into existence at a stroke by writers of the New Testament.

Akhenaten · 23rd January 2012, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by dafydd

OCaptain does not answer questions, it seems. This thread is progressing in an all too familiar fashion.

Originally Posted by joobz

Perhaps we've discovered the source of dark matter.

Arer we doing 'excoriation' yet?

OCaptain · 23rd January 2012, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by dafydd

Go on then. Tell us which god you believe in, assuming that you believe in a god, and perhaps provide some proof of said god's existence.

No deity can be proven to exist using current tools and the scientific method.

I do think I remember advising against prejudging people...

OCaptain · 23rd January 2012, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by dafydd

No. Atheists have always been asking for proof. We will take it that you are not going to answer any questions. Par for the course with people like you.

See? Disrespect in spades, for no good reason.

Ma'am, there is noone like me. I am unique.

dafydd · 23rd January 2012, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by OCaptain

See? Disrespect in spades, for no good reason.

Ma'am, there is noone like me. I am unique.

No one. Peter Noone was a singer. You are not interested in a real discussion. Pointing out that you do not answer questions is the truth, not disrespect. If you are here to troll, just say so. Let me try again. In an earlier post you seemed to imply that you believe that all deities exist. Is that true?

Akhenaten · 23rd January 2012, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by OCaptain

No deity can be proven to exist using current tools and the scientific method.

That's not what the writers of the New Testament said.

Originally Posted by OCaptain

I do think I remember advising against prejudging people...

How about post-judging you as someone who has no interest in presenting evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth?

dafydd · 23rd January 2012, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

How about post-judging you as someone who has no interest in presenting evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth?

That seems to be the case. Doesn't he have anything better to do?

Akhenaten · 23rd January 2012, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by OCaptain

See? Disrespect in spades, for no good reason.

A refusal to answer questions pertinent to the topic is a good enough reason for me.

Originally Posted by OCaptain

Ma'am, there is noone like me. I am unique.

Nah, DOC gets everything wrong too.

OCaptain · 23rd January 2012, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

Therefore your default position is that all deities exist?

Really???

No, my position is that the current state of scientific inquiry and observation is incapable of addressing the existence or nonexistence of any deity.

SezMe · 23rd January 2012, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by OCaptain

No deity can be proven to exist using current tools and the scientific method.

You keep using that word ... erroneously. In the context of deities, it is not a matter of proof, it is a matter of reliable, verifiable evidence. Again, evidence, not proof.

Now, can we have some evidence for your favorite deity ... and you can't use our favorite deity, Akhenaten.

dafydd · 23rd January 2012, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by OCaptain

No, my position is that the current state of scientific inquiry and observation is incapable of addressing the existence or nonexistence of any deity.

Religion is the very antithesis of science. Why should scientists waste their time investigating imaginary sky daddies? They have better things do to, one example being inventing computers, which you are using to post here. Which deity or deities do you believe in? It's a simple enough question, why won't you answer it?

OCaptain · 23rd January 2012, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by dafydd

That seems to be the case. Doesn't he have anything better to do?

How do you expect this conversation to go from here on? I am not here to provide a target at which to snipe and better about yourself. I am not a troll. I suppose I am more used to civil discourse, even among people who are theists and atheists.

Was hoping to find that here.

dafydd · 23rd January 2012, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by OCaptain

How do you expect this conversation to go from here on? I am not here to provide a target at which to snipe and better about yourself. I am not a troll. I suppose I am more used to civil discourse, even among people who are theists and atheists.

Was hoping to find that here.

Discourse usually involves both asking and answering questions. It is very uncivil of you not to answer questions. I expect the conversation to go on with you telling me which god you believe in and then perhaps providing some proof that the writers of the New Testament were telling the truth. That is what this thread is supposed to be about. Asking you questions is not sniping.

OCaptain · 23rd January 2012, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by dafydd

That seems to be the case. Doesn't he have anything better to do?

I am fully capable of managing my own time. Fear not.

joobz · 23rd January 2012, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by OCaptain

No, my position is that the current state of scientific inquiry and observation is incapable of addressing the existence or nonexistence of any deity.

And yet, we may soon be able to prove/disprove the existence of other universes.

Like I said, I will be happy to entertain the concept of god, once a reason to do so presents itself.

OCaptain · 23rd January 2012, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

A refusal to answer questions pertinent to the topic is a good enough reason for me.

Nah, DOC gets everything wrong too.

Show me something of substance I've gotten demonstrably wrong (other than in my hasty typing confusing theists with Deists? Benjamin Franklin would be so offended)

OCaptain · 23rd January 2012, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by SezMe

You keep using that word ... erroneously. In the context of deities, it is not a matter of proof, it is a matter of reliable, verifiable evidence. Again, evidence, not proof.

Now, can we have some evidence for your favorite deity ... and you can't use our favorite deity, Akhenaten.

Sez you

dafydd · 23rd January 2012, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by OCaptain

Show me something of substance I've gotten demonstrably wrong (other than in my hasty typing confusing theists with Deists? Benjamin Franklin would be so offended)

You will have to present something of substance first. All I have seen so far is you stroking your ego.

dafydd · 23rd January 2012, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by OCaptain

Sez you

What a well thought out reply. Gosh, I'm impressed. Walt Whitman would have been proud of you. Do you have anything meaningful to say about the topic of this thread?

OCaptain · 23rd January 2012, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by dafydd

Religion is the very antithesis of science. Why should scientists waste their time investigating imaginary sky daddies? They have better things do to, one example being inventing computers, which you are using to post here. Which deity or deities do you believe in? It's a simple enough question, why won't you answer it?

You're erroneously conflating scientist and atheist. I'm sure you didn't mean to, so I'll give you a very long opportunity to correct that.

dafydd · 23rd January 2012, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by OCaptain

You're erroneously conflating scientist and atheist. I'm sure you didn't mean to, so I'll give you a very long opportunity to correct that.

A short one will suffice. I was pointing out that scientists do not waste their time investigating gods, whether they are atheists or not. Faraday was a devout Christian, and he invented the electric motor, he didn't spend his time trying to prove that god exists. Stop being so disingenuous. What about the thread topic? Anything to add or are you just very bored?

Akhenaten · 23rd January 2012, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by OCaptain

No, my position is that the current state of scientific inquiry and observation is incapable of addressing the existence or nonexistence of any deity.

Originally Posted by OCaptain

How do you expect this conversation to go from here on? I am not here to provide a target at which to snipe and better about yourself. I am not a troll. I suppose I am more used to civil discourse, even among people who are theists and atheists.

Was hoping to find that here.

Originally Posted by OCaptain

I am fully capable of managing my own time. Fear not.

Originally Posted by OCaptain

Show me something of substance I've gotten demonstrably wrong (other than in my hasty typing confusing theists with Deists? Benjamin Franklin would be so offended)

Originally Posted by OCaptain

Sez you

Originally Posted by OCaptain

You're erroneously conflating scientist and atheist. I'm sure you didn't mean to, so I'll give you a very long opportunity to correct that.

Do you have any evidence that the New Testament writers told the truth?

OCaptain · 23rd January 2012, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by joobz

Perhaps we've discovered the source of dark matter.

Dark matter? Do you believe in dark energy too? Brane theory? Talk about woo!?

dafydd · 23rd January 2012, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by OCaptain

Dark matter? Do you believe in dark energy too? Brane theory? Talk about woo!?

Ah! The blessing of the ignore button! I will keep an eye on others quoting you just in case you decide to join in instead of flaunting your ego.

OCaptain · 23rd January 2012, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

Do you have any evidence that the New Testament writers told the truth?

Akhenaten, I'm prepared to ask you - to what truth do you refer? Because, based on how this thread has progressed for me, I'm expecting less than a civil exchange, and life is too short for that.

You keep trying to get me to say something about miracles, which I've no interest in. As I said, I'm not DOC, so please don't lump me in with him/her.

joobz · 23rd January 2012, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by OCaptain

Show me something of substance I've gotten demonstrably wrong (other than in my hasty typing confusing theists with Deists? Benjamin Franklin would be so offended)

I think you are getting an unfair shake here.

It is wrong to assume that you are supporting the OP as you have not made any claim that you agree with it (as far as I can tell).

However, note, that as such, none of your posts have really been on topic of this thread, which is whether or not we know the New testament writers told the truth. So, there are some who probably believe your posts are being intentially derailing. Hence, the ire.

I assume you were entering this thread with good intentions to try and short circuit the dogpile that occurs in this thread.

Yet, such a view would be ignoring the history of this thread. The OP started with a positive claim (see thread title).

It is the conviction of many here (myself included) that all we can say is that the New testament writers Believed they were telling the truth. NOT that what they said was actually true.

The evidence presented by the OP is nothing but a series of logical fallacies, each one having been sufficiently refuted. Since then, it has become a game for many . DOC will present "new evidence" or rehash out old arguments. To which many will respond with many and varied retorts.

This isn't actual discussion. It's a cat toy for all participants.

Amazer · 23rd January 2012, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by OCaptain

Dark matter? Do you believe in dark energy too? Brane theory? Talk about woo!?

It's becoming increasingly clear that you don't believe in answering questions though.

joobz · 23rd January 2012, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by OCaptain

Dark matter? Do you believe in dark energy too? Brane theory? Talk about woo!?

Actually, I do not subscribe to any of the theorized "dark" stuff. I neither accept or reject it. I simply do not know enough to make a conclusion on it.

Both conveniently cosmological describe observations made. But Caloric, aether,
and phlogisten all explained observations as well. It wasn't until we had more data that we determined the better theory.

So, as far as science goes. I think Dark matter and Dark Energy make useful theoretical placeholders until (if) they are refuted.

OCaptain · 23rd January 2012, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by joobz

I think you are getting an unfair shake here.

It is wrong to assume that you are supporting the OP as you have not made any claim that you agree with it (as far as I can tell).

However, note, that as such, none of your posts have really been on topic of this thread, which is whether or not we know the New testament writers told the truth. So, there are some who probably believe your posts are being intentially derailing. Hence, the ire.

I assume you were entering this thread with good intentions to try and short circuit the dogpile that occurs in this thread.

Yet, such a view would be ignoring the history of this thread. The OP started with a positive claim (see thread title).

It is the conviction of many here (myself included) that all we can say is that the New testament writers Believed they were telling the truth. NOT that what they said was actually true.

The evidence presented by the OP is nothing but a series of logical fallacies, each one having been sufficiently refuted. Since then, it has become a game for many . DOC will present "new evidence" or rehash out old arguments. To which many will respond with many and varied retorts.

This isn't actual discussion. It's a cat toy for all participants.

Thanks for the surprising candor and welcoming spirit. Would you recommend a good thread where I can find the kind of civil, intellectual discussion I am seeking?

Akhenaten · 23rd January 2012, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by OCaptain

Akhenaten, I'm prepared to ask you - to what truth do you refer?

The truth about the resurrection will do. Are the accounts in the synoptic gospels the truth?

Originally Posted by OCaptain

Because, based on how this thread has progressed for me, I'm expecting less than a civil exchange, and life is too short for that.

This thread has progressed as it has for you because you refuse to address the topic.

Originally Posted by OCaptain

You keep trying to get me to say something about miracles, which I've no interest in.

It appears that you don't have any interest in anything the New Testament writers said.

Why are you here?

Originally Posted by OCaptain

As I said, I'm not DOC, so please don't lump me in with him/her.

You need to stop the waddling and quacking and stuff before that happens.

OCaptain · 23rd January 2012, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Amazer

It's becoming increasingly clear that you don't believe in answering questions though.

I, like you, answer questions I deem worthy of an answer and constructive.

Akhenaten · 23rd January 2012, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by OCaptain

Thanks for the surprising candor and welcoming spirit. Would you recommend a good thread where I can find the kind of civil, intellectual discussion I am seeking?

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=224444

OCaptain · 23rd January 2012, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

The truth about the resurrection will do. Are the accounts in the synoptic gospels the truth?

This thread has progressed as it has for you because you refuse to address the topic.

It appears that you don't have any interest in anything the New Testament writers said.

Why are you here?

You need to stop the waddling and quacking and stuff before that happens.

Why in the world are you going on about resurrections and miracles? How is any of that scientific???

But, if those things are the only "truths" you're interested in, then I will find nothing of interest here, and you will not find a new cat toy to play with in me.

Sorry to disappoint.

Resume · 23rd January 2012, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by OCaptain

Why in the world are you going on about resurrections and miracles?

Have you read the thread at all?

Akhenaten · 23rd January 2012, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by OCaptain

Why in the world are you going on about resurrections and miracles?

Because those are the things that the New Testament writers wrote about.

Haven't you read it yet?

Originally Posted by OCaptain

How is any of that scientific???

Most of us don't think it is and that's why we keep asking for evidence.

Do you have any?

Originally Posted by OCaptain

But, if those things are the only "truths" you're interested in, then I will find nothing of interest here, and you will not find a new cat toy to play with in me.

I already knew the former to be true and it's too late to prevent the latter.

Originally Posted by OCaptain

Sorry to disappoint.

Not at all. DOC can't be here all the time so it's nice of you to stand in for a while.

Akhenaten · 23rd January 2012, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Resume

Originally Posted by OCaptain

Why in the world are you going on about resurrections and miracles?

Have you read the thread at all?

There's nothing to indicate he even got all the way through the title.

23rd January 2012, 05:01 PM	#921
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,680	Originally Posted by Akhenaten Therefore your default position is that all deities exist? Really??? OCaptain does not answer questions, it seems. This thread is progressing in an all too familiar fashion.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

23rd January 2012, 05:01 PM	#922
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,588	Originally Posted by Akhenaten Therefore your default position is that all deities exist? Really??? Perhaps we've discovered the source of dark matter.
	__________________ What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser

23rd January 2012, 05:02 PM	#923
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917	Originally Posted by dafydd It would take a lifetime for an atheist to investigate every god that mankind has invented. Let's leave it to the theists to come up with proof. I won't be holding my breath, they have had thousands of years and not a shred has been forthcoming. Well to be fair, atheists haven't been demanding proof until comparatively recently....
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917

23rd January 2012, 05:03 PM	#924
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,680	Originally Posted by OCaptain Well to be fair, atheists haven't been demanding proof until comparatively recently.... No. Atheists have always been asking for proof. We will take it that you are not going to answer any questions. Par for the course with people like you.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

23rd January 2012, 05:03 PM	#925
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,749	Originally Posted by OCaptain Am posting on an iPod. Give me longer than 10 minutes. Rome wasn't built in a day, you know. Unlike Nazareth which was zapped into existence at a stroke by writers of the New Testament.
	__________________ Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon The Australasian Skeptics Forum

23rd January 2012, 05:05 PM	#926
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,749	Originally Posted by dafydd OCaptain does not answer questions, it seems. This thread is progressing in an all too familiar fashion. Originally Posted by joobz Perhaps we've discovered the source of dark matter. Arer we doing 'excoriation' yet?
	__________________ Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon The Australasian Skeptics Forum

23rd January 2012, 05:05 PM	#927
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917	Originally Posted by dafydd Go on then. Tell us which god you believe in, assuming that you believe in a god, and perhaps provide some proof of said god's existence. No deity can be proven to exist using current tools and the scientific method. I do think I remember advising against prejudging people...
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917

23rd January 2012, 05:06 PM	#928
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917	Originally Posted by dafydd No. Atheists have always been asking for proof. We will take it that you are not going to answer any questions. Par for the course with people like you. See? Disrespect in spades, for no good reason. Ma'am, there is noone like me. I am unique.
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917

23rd January 2012, 05:08 PM	#929
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,680	Originally Posted by OCaptain See? Disrespect in spades, for no good reason. Ma'am, there is noone like me. I am unique. No one. Peter Noone was a singer. You are not interested in a real discussion. Pointing out that you do not answer questions is the truth, not disrespect. If you are here to troll, just say so. Let me try again. In an earlier post you seemed to imply that you believe that all deities exist. Is that true?
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away. Last edited by dafydd; 23rd January 2012 at 05:11 PM.

23rd January 2012, 05:12 PM	#930
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,749	Originally Posted by OCaptain No deity can be proven to exist using current tools and the scientific method. That's not what the writers of the New Testament said. Originally Posted by OCaptain I do think I remember advising against prejudging people... How about post-judging you as someone who has no interest in presenting evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth?
	__________________ Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon The Australasian Skeptics Forum

23rd January 2012, 05:13 PM	#931
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,680	Originally Posted by Akhenaten How about post-judging you as someone who has no interest in presenting evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth? That seems to be the case. Doesn't he have anything better to do?
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

23rd January 2012, 05:17 PM	#932
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,749	Originally Posted by OCaptain See? Disrespect in spades, for no good reason. A refusal to answer questions pertinent to the topic is a good enough reason for me. Originally Posted by OCaptain Ma'am, there is noone like me. I am unique. Nah, DOC gets everything wrong too.
	__________________ Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon The Australasian Skeptics Forum

23rd January 2012, 05:18 PM	#933
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917	Originally Posted by Akhenaten Therefore your default position is that all deities exist? Really??? No, my position is that the current state of scientific inquiry and observation is incapable of addressing the existence or nonexistence of any deity.
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917

23rd January 2012, 05:18 PM	#934
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 16,651	Originally Posted by OCaptain No deity can be proven to exist using current tools and the scientific method. You keep using that word ... erroneously. In the context of deities, it is not a matter of proof, it is a matter of reliable, verifiable evidence. Again, evidence, not proof. Now, can we have some evidence for your favorite deity ... and you can't use our favorite deity, Akhenaten.

23rd January 2012, 05:21 PM	#935
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,680	Originally Posted by OCaptain No, my position is that the current state of scientific inquiry and observation is incapable of addressing the existence or nonexistence of any deity. Religion is the very antithesis of science. Why should scientists waste their time investigating imaginary sky daddies? They have better things do to, one example being inventing computers, which you are using to post here. Which deity or deities do you believe in? It's a simple enough question, why won't you answer it?
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away. Last edited by dafydd; 23rd January 2012 at 05:23 PM.

23rd January 2012, 05:22 PM	#936
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917	Originally Posted by dafydd That seems to be the case. Doesn't he have anything better to do? How do you expect this conversation to go from here on? I am not here to provide a target at which to snipe and better about yourself. I am not a troll. I suppose I am more used to civil discourse, even among people who are theists and atheists. Was hoping to find that here.
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917

23rd January 2012, 05:24 PM	#937
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,680	Originally Posted by OCaptain How do you expect this conversation to go from here on? I am not here to provide a target at which to snipe and better about yourself. I am not a troll. I suppose I am more used to civil discourse, even among people who are theists and atheists. Was hoping to find that here. Discourse usually involves both asking and answering questions. It is very uncivil of you not to answer questions. I expect the conversation to go on with you telling me which god you believe in and then perhaps providing some proof that the writers of the New Testament were telling the truth. That is what this thread is supposed to be about. Asking you questions is not sniping.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away. Last edited by dafydd; 23rd January 2012 at 05:27 PM.

23rd January 2012, 05:25 PM	#938
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917	Originally Posted by dafydd That seems to be the case. Doesn't he have anything better to do? I am fully capable of managing my own time. Fear not.
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917

23rd January 2012, 05:26 PM	#939
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,588	Originally Posted by OCaptain No, my position is that the current state of scientific inquiry and observation is incapable of addressing the existence or nonexistence of any deity. And yet, we may soon be able to prove/disprove the existence of other universes. Like I said, I will be happy to entertain the concept of god, once a reason to do so presents itself.
	__________________ What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser

23rd January 2012, 05:27 PM	#940
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917	Originally Posted by Akhenaten A refusal to answer questions pertinent to the topic is a good enough reason for me. Nah, DOC gets everything wrong too. Show me something of substance I've gotten demonstrably wrong (other than in my hasty typing confusing theists with Deists? Benjamin Franklin would be so offended)
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917

23rd January 2012, 05:29 PM	#941
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917	Originally Posted by SezMe You keep using that word ... erroneously. In the context of deities, it is not a matter of proof, it is a matter of reliable, verifiable evidence. Again, evidence, not proof. Now, can we have some evidence for your favorite deity ... and you can't use our favorite deity, Akhenaten. Sez you
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917

23rd January 2012, 05:29 PM	#942
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,680	Originally Posted by OCaptain Show me something of substance I've gotten demonstrably wrong (other than in my hasty typing confusing theists with Deists? Benjamin Franklin would be so offended) You will have to present something of substance first. All I have seen so far is you stroking your ego.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

23rd January 2012, 05:31 PM	#943
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,680	Originally Posted by OCaptain Sez you What a well thought out reply. Gosh, I'm impressed. Walt Whitman would have been proud of you. Do you have anything meaningful to say about the topic of this thread?
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

23rd January 2012, 05:32 PM	#944
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917	Originally Posted by dafydd Religion is the very antithesis of science. Why should scientists waste their time investigating imaginary sky daddies? They have better things do to, one example being inventing computers, which you are using to post here. Which deity or deities do you believe in? It's a simple enough question, why won't you answer it? You're erroneously conflating scientist and atheist. I'm sure you didn't mean to, so I'll give you a very long opportunity to correct that.
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917

23rd January 2012, 05:34 PM	#945
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,680	Originally Posted by OCaptain You're erroneously conflating scientist and atheist. I'm sure you didn't mean to, so I'll give you a very long opportunity to correct that. A short one will suffice. I was pointing out that scientists do not waste their time investigating gods, whether they are atheists or not. Faraday was a devout Christian, and he invented the electric motor, he didn't spend his time trying to prove that god exists. Stop being so disingenuous. What about the thread topic? Anything to add or are you just very bored?
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away. Last edited by dafydd; 23rd January 2012 at 05:38 PM.

23rd January 2012, 05:37 PM	#946
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,749	Originally Posted by OCaptain No, my position is that the current state of scientific inquiry and observation is incapable of addressing the existence or nonexistence of any deity. Originally Posted by OCaptain How do you expect this conversation to go from here on? I am not here to provide a target at which to snipe and better about yourself. I am not a troll. I suppose I am more used to civil discourse, even among people who are theists and atheists. Was hoping to find that here. Originally Posted by OCaptain I am fully capable of managing my own time. Fear not. Originally Posted by OCaptain Show me something of substance I've gotten demonstrably wrong (other than in my hasty typing confusing theists with Deists? Benjamin Franklin would be so offended) Originally Posted by OCaptain Sez you Originally Posted by OCaptain You're erroneously conflating scientist and atheist. I'm sure you didn't mean to, so I'll give you a very long opportunity to correct that. Do you have any evidence that the New Testament writers told the truth?
	__________________ Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon The Australasian Skeptics Forum

23rd January 2012, 05:38 PM	#947
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917	Originally Posted by joobz Perhaps we've discovered the source of dark matter. Dark matter? Do you believe in dark energy too? Brane theory? Talk about woo!?
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917

23rd January 2012, 05:39 PM	#948
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,680	Originally Posted by OCaptain Dark matter? Do you believe in dark energy too? Brane theory? Talk about woo!? Ah! The blessing of the ignore button! I will keep an eye on others quoting you just in case you decide to join in instead of flaunting your ego.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away. Last edited by dafydd; 23rd January 2012 at 05:40 PM.

23rd January 2012, 05:41 PM	#949
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917	Originally Posted by Akhenaten Do you have any evidence that the New Testament writers told the truth? Akhenaten, I'm prepared to ask you - to what truth do you refer? Because, based on how this thread has progressed for me, I'm expecting less than a civil exchange, and life is too short for that. You keep trying to get me to say something about miracles, which I've no interest in. As I said, I'm not DOC, so please don't lump me in with him/her.
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917

23rd January 2012, 05:41 PM	#950
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,588	Originally Posted by OCaptain Show me something of substance I've gotten demonstrably wrong (other than in my hasty typing confusing theists with Deists? Benjamin Franklin would be so offended) I think you are getting an unfair shake here. It is wrong to assume that you are supporting the OP as you have not made any claim that you agree with it (as far as I can tell). However, note, that as such, none of your posts have really been on topic of this thread, which is whether or not we know the New testament writers told the truth. So, there are some who probably believe your posts are being intentially derailing. Hence, the ire. I assume you were entering this thread with good intentions to try and short circuit the dogpile that occurs in this thread. Yet, such a view would be ignoring the history of this thread. The OP started with a positive claim (see thread title). It is the conviction of many here (myself included) that all we can say is that the New testament writers Believed they were telling the truth. NOT that what they said was actually true. The evidence presented by the OP is nothing but a series of logical fallacies, each one having been sufficiently refuted. Since then, it has become a game for many . DOC will present "new evidence" or rehash out old arguments. To which many will respond with many and varied retorts. This isn't actual discussion. It's a cat toy for all participants.
	__________________ What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser

23rd January 2012, 05:44 PM	#951
Amazer Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Bangalore, Cork, Sliedrecht Posts: 1,007	Originally Posted by OCaptain Dark matter? Do you believe in dark energy too? Brane theory? Talk about woo!? It's becoming increasingly clear that you don't believe in answering questions though.

23rd January 2012, 05:48 PM	#952
joobz Tergiversator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: That's how you get ants Posts: 17,588	Originally Posted by OCaptain Dark matter? Do you believe in dark energy too? Brane theory? Talk about woo!? Actually, I do not subscribe to any of the theorized "dark" stuff. I neither accept or reject it. I simply do not know enough to make a conclusion on it. Both conveniently cosmological describe observations made. But Caloric, aether, and phlogisten all explained observations as well. It wasn't until we had more data that we determined the better theory. So, as far as science goes. I think Dark matter and Dark Energy make useful theoretical placeholders until (if) they are refuted.
	__________________ What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC. "Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser

23rd January 2012, 05:54 PM	#953
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917	Originally Posted by joobz I think you are getting an unfair shake here. It is wrong to assume that you are supporting the OP as you have not made any claim that you agree with it (as far as I can tell). However, note, that as such, none of your posts have really been on topic of this thread, which is whether or not we know the New testament writers told the truth. So, there are some who probably believe your posts are being intentially derailing. Hence, the ire. I assume you were entering this thread with good intentions to try and short circuit the dogpile that occurs in this thread. Yet, such a view would be ignoring the history of this thread. The OP started with a positive claim (see thread title). It is the conviction of many here (myself included) that all we can say is that the New testament writers Believed they were telling the truth. NOT that what they said was actually true. The evidence presented by the OP is nothing but a series of logical fallacies, each one having been sufficiently refuted. Since then, it has become a game for many . DOC will present "new evidence" or rehash out old arguments. To which many will respond with many and varied retorts. This isn't actual discussion. It's a cat toy for all participants. Thanks for the surprising candor and welcoming spirit. Would you recommend a good thread where I can find the kind of civil, intellectual discussion I am seeking?
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917

23rd January 2012, 05:55 PM	#954
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,749	Originally Posted by OCaptain Akhenaten, I'm prepared to ask you - to what truth do you refer? The truth about the resurrection will do. Are the accounts in the synoptic gospels the truth? Originally Posted by OCaptain Because, based on how this thread has progressed for me, I'm expecting less than a civil exchange, and life is too short for that. This thread has progressed as it has for you because you refuse to address the topic. Originally Posted by OCaptain You keep trying to get me to say something about miracles, which I've no interest in. It appears that you don't have any interest in anything the New Testament writers said. Why are you here? Originally Posted by OCaptain As I said, I'm not DOC, so please don't lump me in with him/her. You need to stop the waddling and quacking and stuff before that happens.
	__________________ Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon The Australasian Skeptics Forum

23rd January 2012, 05:56 PM	#955
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917	Originally Posted by Amazer It's becoming increasingly clear that you don't believe in answering questions though. I, like you, answer questions I deem worthy of an answer and constructive.
OCaptain Muse Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 917