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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:01 PM   #921
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Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
Therefore your default position is that all deities exist?

Really???
OCaptain does not answer questions, it seems. This thread is progressing in an all too familiar fashion.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:01 PM   #922
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Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
Therefore your default position is that all deities exist?

Really???
Perhaps we've discovered the source of dark matter.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:02 PM   #923
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
It would take a lifetime for an atheist to investigate every god that mankind has invented. Let's leave it to the theists to come up with proof. I won't be holding my breath, they have had thousands of years and not a shred has been forthcoming.
Well to be fair, atheists haven't been demanding proof until comparatively recently....
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:03 PM   #924
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Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
Well to be fair, atheists haven't been demanding proof until comparatively recently....
No. Atheists have always been asking for proof. We will take it that you are not going to answer any questions. Par for the course with people like you.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:03 PM   #925
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Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
Am posting on an iPod. Give me longer than 10 minutes. Rome wasn't built in a day, you know.


Unlike Nazareth which was zapped into existence at a stroke by writers of the New Testament.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:05 PM   #926
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
OCaptain does not answer questions, it seems. This thread is progressing in an all too familiar fashion.
Originally Posted by joobz View Post
Perhaps we've discovered the source of dark matter.


Arer we doing 'excoriation' yet?
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:05 PM   #927
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
Go on then. Tell us which god you believe in, assuming that you believe in a god, and perhaps provide some proof of said god's existence.
No deity can be proven to exist using current tools and the scientific method.

I do think I remember advising against prejudging people...
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:06 PM   #928
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
No. Atheists have always been asking for proof. We will take it that you are not going to answer any questions. Par for the course with people like you.
See? Disrespect in spades, for no good reason.

Ma'am, there is noone like me. I am unique.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:08 PM   #929
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Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
See? Disrespect in spades, for no good reason.

Ma'am, there is noone like me. I am unique.
No one. Peter Noone was a singer. You are not interested in a real discussion. Pointing out that you do not answer questions is the truth, not disrespect. If you are here to troll, just say so. Let me try again. In an earlier post you seemed to imply that you believe that all deities exist. Is that true?

Last edited by dafydd; 23rd January 2012 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:12 PM   #930
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Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
No deity can be proven to exist using current tools and the scientific method.


That's not what the writers of the New Testament said.


Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
I do think I remember advising against prejudging people...


How about post-judging you as someone who has no interest in presenting evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth?
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:13 PM   #931
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Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post




How about post-judging you as someone who has no interest in presenting evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth?
That seems to be the case. Doesn't he have anything better to do?
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:17 PM   #932
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Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
See? Disrespect in spades, for no good reason.


A refusal to answer questions pertinent to the topic is a good enough reason for me.


Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
Ma'am, there is noone like me. I am unique.


Nah, DOC gets everything wrong too.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:18 PM   #933
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Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
Therefore your default position is that all deities exist?

Really???
No, my position is that the current state of scientific inquiry and observation is incapable of addressing the existence or nonexistence of any deity.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:18 PM   #934
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Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
No deity can be proven to exist using current tools and the scientific method.
You keep using that word ... erroneously. In the context of deities, it is not a matter of proof, it is a matter of reliable, verifiable evidence. Again, evidence, not proof.

Now, can we have some evidence for your favorite deity ... and you can't use our favorite deity, Akhenaten.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:21 PM   #935
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Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
No, my position is that the current state of scientific inquiry and observation is incapable of addressing the existence or nonexistence of any deity.
Religion is the very antithesis of science. Why should scientists waste their time investigating imaginary sky daddies? They have better things do to, one example being inventing computers, which you are using to post here. Which deity or deities do you believe in? It's a simple enough question, why won't you answer it?

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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:22 PM   #936
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
That seems to be the case. Doesn't he have anything better to do?
How do you expect this conversation to go from here on? I am not here to provide a target at which to snipe and better about yourself. I am not a troll. I suppose I am more used to civil discourse, even among people who are theists and atheists.

Was hoping to find that here.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:24 PM   #937
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Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
How do you expect this conversation to go from here on? I am not here to provide a target at which to snipe and better about yourself. I am not a troll. I suppose I am more used to civil discourse, even among people who are theists and atheists.

Was hoping to find that here.
Discourse usually involves both asking and answering questions. It is very uncivil of you not to answer questions. I expect the conversation to go on with you telling me which god you believe in and then perhaps providing some proof that the writers of the New Testament were telling the truth. That is what this thread is supposed to be about. Asking you questions is not sniping.

Last edited by dafydd; 23rd January 2012 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:25 PM   #938
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
That seems to be the case. Doesn't he have anything better to do?
I am fully capable of managing my own time. Fear not.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:26 PM   #939
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Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
No, my position is that the current state of scientific inquiry and observation is incapable of addressing the existence or nonexistence of any deity.
And yet, we may soon be able to prove/disprove the existence of other universes.

Like I said, I will be happy to entertain the concept of god, once a reason to do so presents itself.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:27 PM   #940
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Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
A refusal to answer questions pertinent to the topic is a good enough reason for me.





Nah, DOC gets everything wrong too.
Show me something of substance I've gotten demonstrably wrong (other than in my hasty typing confusing theists with Deists? Benjamin Franklin would be so offended)
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:29 PM   #941
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
You keep using that word ... erroneously. In the context of deities, it is not a matter of proof, it is a matter of reliable, verifiable evidence. Again, evidence, not proof.

Now, can we have some evidence for your favorite deity ... and you can't use our favorite deity, Akhenaten.
Sez you
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:29 PM   #942
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Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
Show me something of substance I've gotten demonstrably wrong (other than in my hasty typing confusing theists with Deists? Benjamin Franklin would be so offended)
You will have to present something of substance first. All I have seen so far is you stroking your ego.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:31 PM   #943
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Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
Sez you
What a well thought out reply. Gosh, I'm impressed. Walt Whitman would have been proud of you. Do you have anything meaningful to say about the topic of this thread?
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:32 PM   #944
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
Religion is the very antithesis of science. Why should scientists waste their time investigating imaginary sky daddies? They have better things do to, one example being inventing computers, which you are using to post here. Which deity or deities do you believe in? It's a simple enough question, why won't you answer it?
You're erroneously conflating scientist and atheist. I'm sure you didn't mean to, so I'll give you a very long opportunity to correct that.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:34 PM   #945
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Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
You're erroneously conflating scientist and atheist. I'm sure you didn't mean to, so I'll give you a very long opportunity to correct that.
A short one will suffice. I was pointing out that scientists do not waste their time investigating gods, whether they are atheists or not. Faraday was a devout Christian, and he invented the electric motor, he didn't spend his time trying to prove that god exists. Stop being so disingenuous. What about the thread topic? Anything to add or are you just very bored?

Last edited by dafydd; 23rd January 2012 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:37 PM   #946
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Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
No, my position is that the current state of scientific inquiry and observation is incapable of addressing the existence or nonexistence of any deity.
Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
How do you expect this conversation to go from here on? I am not here to provide a target at which to snipe and better about yourself. I am not a troll. I suppose I am more used to civil discourse, even among people who are theists and atheists.

Was hoping to find that here.
Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
I am fully capable of managing my own time. Fear not.
Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
Show me something of substance I've gotten demonstrably wrong (other than in my hasty typing confusing theists with Deists? Benjamin Franklin would be so offended)
Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
Sez you
Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
You're erroneously conflating scientist and atheist. I'm sure you didn't mean to, so I'll give you a very long opportunity to correct that.

Do you have any evidence that the New Testament writers told the truth?
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:38 PM   #947
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Originally Posted by joobz View Post
Perhaps we've discovered the source of dark matter.
Dark matter? Do you believe in dark energy too? Brane theory? Talk about woo!?
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:39 PM   #948
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Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
Dark matter? Do you believe in dark energy too? Brane theory? Talk about woo!?
Ah! The blessing of the ignore button! I will keep an eye on others quoting you just in case you decide to join in instead of flaunting your ego.

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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:41 PM   #949
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Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
Do you have any evidence that the New Testament writers told the truth?
Akhenaten, I'm prepared to ask you - to what truth do you refer? Because, based on how this thread has progressed for me, I'm expecting less than a civil exchange, and life is too short for that.

You keep trying to get me to say something about miracles, which I've no interest in. As I said, I'm not DOC, so please don't lump me in with him/her.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:41 PM   #950
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Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
Show me something of substance I've gotten demonstrably wrong (other than in my hasty typing confusing theists with Deists? Benjamin Franklin would be so offended)
I think you are getting an unfair shake here.

It is wrong to assume that you are supporting the OP as you have not made any claim that you agree with it (as far as I can tell).

However, note, that as such, none of your posts have really been on topic of this thread, which is whether or not we know the New testament writers told the truth. So, there are some who probably believe your posts are being intentially derailing. Hence, the ire.

I assume you were entering this thread with good intentions to try and short circuit the dogpile that occurs in this thread.

Yet, such a view would be ignoring the history of this thread. The OP started with a positive claim (see thread title).

It is the conviction of many here (myself included) that all we can say is that the New testament writers Believed they were telling the truth. NOT that what they said was actually true.

The evidence presented by the OP is nothing but a series of logical fallacies, each one having been sufficiently refuted. Since then, it has become a game for many . DOC will present "new evidence" or rehash out old arguments. To which many will respond with many and varied retorts.

This isn't actual discussion. It's a cat toy for all participants.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:44 PM   #951
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Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
Dark matter? Do you believe in dark energy too? Brane theory? Talk about woo!?
It's becoming increasingly clear that you don't believe in answering questions though.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:48 PM   #952
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Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
Dark matter? Do you believe in dark energy too? Brane theory? Talk about woo!?
Actually, I do not subscribe to any of the theorized "dark" stuff. I neither accept or reject it. I simply do not know enough to make a conclusion on it.

Both conveniently cosmological describe observations made. But Caloric, aether,
and phlogisten all explained observations as well. It wasn't until we had more data that we determined the better theory.

So, as far as science goes. I think Dark matter and Dark Energy make useful theoretical placeholders until (if) they are refuted.
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"Perhaps one reason per capita GDP is lower in UHC countries is because they've tried to prevent this important function [bankrupting the sick] and thus carry forward considerable economic dead wood?"-BeAChooser
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:54 PM   #953
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Originally Posted by joobz View Post
I think you are getting an unfair shake here.

It is wrong to assume that you are supporting the OP as you have not made any claim that you agree with it (as far as I can tell).

However, note, that as such, none of your posts have really been on topic of this thread, which is whether or not we know the New testament writers told the truth. So, there are some who probably believe your posts are being intentially derailing. Hence, the ire.

I assume you were entering this thread with good intentions to try and short circuit the dogpile that occurs in this thread.

Yet, such a view would be ignoring the history of this thread. The OP started with a positive claim (see thread title).

It is the conviction of many here (myself included) that all we can say is that the New testament writers Believed they were telling the truth. NOT that what they said was actually true.

The evidence presented by the OP is nothing but a series of logical fallacies, each one having been sufficiently refuted. Since then, it has become a game for many . DOC will present "new evidence" or rehash out old arguments. To which many will respond with many and varied retorts.

This isn't actual discussion. It's a cat toy for all participants.
Thanks for the surprising candor and welcoming spirit. Would you recommend a good thread where I can find the kind of civil, intellectual discussion I am seeking?
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:55 PM   #954
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Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
Akhenaten, I'm prepared to ask you - to what truth do you refer?


The truth about the resurrection will do. Are the accounts in the synoptic gospels the truth?


Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
Because, based on how this thread has progressed for me, I'm expecting less than a civil exchange, and life is too short for that.


This thread has progressed as it has for you because you refuse to address the topic.


Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
You keep trying to get me to say something about miracles, which I've no interest in.


It appears that you don't have any interest in anything the New Testament writers said.

Why are you here?


Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
As I said, I'm not DOC, so please don't lump me in with him/her.


You need to stop the waddling and quacking and stuff before that happens.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:56 PM   #955
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Originally Posted by Amazer View Post
It's becoming increasingly clear that you don't believe in answering questions though.
I, like you, answer questions I deem worthy of an answer and constructive.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:56 PM   #956
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Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
Thanks for the surprising candor and welcoming spirit. Would you recommend a good thread where I can find the kind of civil, intellectual discussion I am seeking?


http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=224444
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Old 23rd January 2012, 05:58 PM   #957
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Originally Posted by Akhenaten View Post
The truth about the resurrection will do. Are the accounts in the synoptic gospels the truth?





This thread has progressed as it has for you because you refuse to address the topic.





It appears that you don't have any interest in anything the New Testament writers said.

Why are you here?





You need to stop the waddling and quacking and stuff before that happens.
Why in the world are you going on about resurrections and miracles? How is any of that scientific???

But, if those things are the only "truths" you're interested in, then I will find nothing of interest here, and you will not find a new cat toy to play with in me.

Sorry to disappoint.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 06:09 PM   #958
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Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
Why in the world are you going on about resurrections and miracles?
Have you read the thread at all?
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Old 23rd January 2012, 06:10 PM   #959
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Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
Why in the world are you going on about resurrections and miracles?


Because those are the things that the New Testament writers wrote about.

Haven't you read it yet?


Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
How is any of that scientific???


Most of us don't think it is and that's why we keep asking for evidence.

Do you have any?


Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
But, if those things are the only "truths" you're interested in, then I will find nothing of interest here, and you will not find a new cat toy to play with in me.


I already knew the former to be true and it's too late to prevent the latter.


Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
Sorry to disappoint.


Not at all. DOC can't be here all the time so it's nice of you to stand in for a while.
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Old 23rd January 2012, 06:12 PM   #960
Akhenaten
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Originally Posted by OCaptain View Post
Why in the world are you going on about resurrections and miracles?


Have you read the thread at all?


There's nothing to indicate he even got all the way through the title.
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