Breaking News: Debt Ceiling Talks Collapse

Muldur · 23rd June 2011, 03:41 PM

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...se_leaves.html

As of approximately 90 minutes ago, House Republican Leader Cantor and Senator Kyle (also Republican) pulled out of the negotiations to raise the debt ceiling, citing Democratic insistence that tax increases as well as spending cuts be part of the package.

This purely ideological move on the part of the lunatic Tea Partiers and their allies puts the US in real risk of full out default on debt payments come the first week of August, and the instantaneous shutdown of major social programs such as Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, Food Stamps, etc.

CALL, do not write...CALL your Congressmen. Tell them to get back to the negotiating table NOW! Call the White House and urge the President to declare a state of Economic Emergency and assume direct control over the issue unless Congress gets it's act together!

dudalb · 23rd June 2011, 04:39 PM

It' s all political theater, guy.
You seem not to have paid much attention to the way things work, guy.

UndercoverElephant · 23rd June 2011, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

It' s all political theater, guy.
You seem not to have paid much attention to the way things work, guy.

How do things work then, dudalb?

It's certainly first-class entertainment, but it's also a lot more. People are making decisions which have very real consequences. This is a game of 23-dimensional poker.

dudalb · 23rd June 2011, 04:52 PM

That is just it.It's bluffing.
And Don't think that talks are not still happening behind hte scenes.
Of course you don't like us Evil Gun Loving Yanks anyway.......

UndercoverElephant · 23rd June 2011, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

That is just it.It's bluffing.

There's plenty of bluffing going on, but that doesn't mean there won't be (relative) winners and losers, and the stakes are high.

MattusMaximus · 23rd June 2011, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

That is just it.It's bluffing.
And Don't think that talks are not still happening behind hte scenes.
Of course you don't like us Evil Gun Loving Yanks anyway.......

This ^

The smart, establishment Republicans are using this as a cynical move to get as much as they can in negotiations before they ultimately raise the debt ceiling (and the smart Democrats know it). They know that if the U.S. defaults then they're totally screwed politically, so they're doing this to look tough for both purposes of negotiations and to impress the Tea Party loons (whom they need in GOP primaries).

thaiboxerken · 23rd June 2011, 04:58 PM

I don't think the GOP would mind collapsing the economy. The wealthy don't hurt so much and may gain more power if it were to happen.

Also, Cantor is a tea party loon.

MattusMaximus · 23rd June 2011, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

I don't think the GOP would mind collapsing the economy. The wealthy don't hurt so much and may gain more power if it were to happen.

Wrong.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce has all but said that if the GOP allows the debt ceiling deadline to pass without raising it, and if that starts to hit the economy negatively, then there will be dire consequences for the party. In other words, "You won't be getting our money for your campaigns." Link

The U.S. CoC may be a bunch of big money business people, but they aren't stupid, and they know that if the economy takes a real hit it hurts them, too.

Not as much as it would hurt the rest of us, but it will hurt business, and they don't want that.

JohnnyG · 23rd June 2011, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

I don't think the GOP would mind collapsing the economy. The wealthy don't hurt so much and may gain more power if it were to happen.

Also, Cantor is a tea party loon.

You truly believe the GOP wouldn't mind collapsing the economy...and you call Cantor a loon?

thaiboxerken · 23rd June 2011, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyG

You truly believe the GOP wouldn't mind collapsing the economy...and you call Cantor a loon?

A collapse would help them get more power.

Muldur · 23rd June 2011, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by UndercoverElephant

How do things work then, dudalb?

It's certainly first-class entertainment, but it's also a lot more. People are making decisions which have very real consequences.

Like the TWO times they shivved the unemployed in the back on extended benefits.

These Tea Partier whack jobs are blind ideologues. They'll burn our society to the ground to get what they want.

Muldur · 23rd June 2011, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyG

You truly believe the GOP wouldn't mind collapsing the economy...and you call Cantor a loon?

I don't think it's the whole party, just the Tea Party nutjob wing that has the others by the proverbial balls right now. They're the worst sort of dogmatic ideologues.

JohnnyG · 23rd June 2011, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

A collapse would help them get more power.

CT forum that way --->

JohnnyG · 23rd June 2011, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Muldur

I don't think it's the whole party, just the Tea Party nutjob wing that has the others by the proverbial balls right now. They're the worst sort of dogmatic ideologues.

There's always a few nutcases, but I highly doubt it's even a significant part of the Tea Party that wants the economy to collapse, let alone the GOP as was claimed.

thaiboxerken · 23rd June 2011, 05:43 PM

The GOP has done nothing to help the economy. In fact, they have blocked legislation that would improve the economy.

ServiceSoon · 23rd June 2011, 05:44 PM

Calm down. Nobody wants the economy to collapse. Did you know that all of this unnecessary stress is shrinking your hippocampus?

JohnnyG · 23rd June 2011, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

The GOP has done nothing to help the economy. In fact, they have blocked legislation that would improve the economy.

Do you not understand how politics works, or do you just repeat party talking points?

Beerina · 23rd June 2011, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

It' s all political theater, guy.
You seem not to have paid much attention to the way things work, guy.

This, sad to say. Otherwise I'd be happy letting it all crash to the ground and burn.

dudalb · 23rd June 2011, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

Wrong.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce has all but said that if the GOP allows the debt ceiling deadline to pass without raising it, and if that starts to hit the economy negatively, then there will be dire consequences for the party. In other words, "You won't be getting our money for your campaigns." Link

The U.S. CoC may be a bunch of big money business people, but they aren't stupid, and they know that if the economy takes a real hit it hurts them, too.

Not as much as it would hurt the rest of us, but it will hurt business, and they don't want that.

And not just the COC. Just about every major business group has made it known that the US defaulting will NOT be a good idea.
In the end, if it is a show down between the Tea Party and the Big Money , I am not betting on the Tea Party.

dudalb · 23rd June 2011, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by Beerina

This, sad to say. Otherwise I'd be happy letting it all crash to the ground and burn.

And when the smokes cleare we will have Libertopia.
Of course it might go the other way and we will have The People's Republic of America . Wishing total disaster because you might think your side will benefit is a risky business.

MattusMaximus · 23rd June 2011, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

A collapse would help them get more power.

Dude, I have no love for the current GOP (and I especially dislike the Tea Party loons), but I cannot for one moment buy the notion that the leaders within the GOP are seriously considering "tanking the economy" on purpose.

You're skirting CT territory here, man.

MattusMaximus · 23rd June 2011, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

And not just the COC. Just about every major business group has made it known that the US defaulting will NOT be a good idea.
In the end, if it is a show down between the Tea Party and the Big Money , I am not betting on the Tea Party.

This ^

The Tea Party will find themselves out on their collective asses, and quick, if they do anything so reckless as sabotaging the raising of the debt ceiling. And there will be collateral damage to the GOP in general. This is why I suspect there are some pretty heated discussions going on behind closed doors within the GOP between the pragmatists and the Tea Party goofs.

MattusMaximus · 23rd June 2011, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

And when the smokes cleare we will have Libertopia.
Of course it might go the other way and we will have The People's Republic of America . Wishing total disaster because you might think your side will benefit is a risky business.

I thought that was called "Somalia"?

Muldur · 23rd June 2011, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyG

There's always a few nutcases, but I highly doubt it's even a significant part of the Tea Party that wants the economy to collapse, let alone the GOP as was claimed.

Well, those "few nutcases" have control of the party. What the Tea Party wants is what the GOP does with the non-TP Repubs too few in number and too scared of being targeted by the TP next election to speak or act.

Muldur · 23rd June 2011, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by ServiceSoon

Calm down. Nobody wants the economy to collapse.

They have a funny way of showing it...

Muldur · 23rd June 2011, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by Beerina

This, sad to say. Otherwise I'd be happy letting it all crash to the ground and burn.

What kind of monster are you?

Muldur · 23rd June 2011, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

This ^

The Tea Party will find themselves out on their collective asses, and quick, if they do anything so reckless as sabotaging the raising of the debt ceiling. And there will be collateral damage to the GOP in general. This is why I suspect there are some pretty heated discussions going on behind closed doors within the GOP between the pragmatists and the Tea Party goofs.

The problem is that the "Tea Party goofs" have the votes, and they know it.

thaiboxerken · 23rd June 2011, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

Dude, I have no love for the current GOP (and I especially dislike the Tea Party loons), but I cannot for one moment buy the notion that the leaders within the GOP are seriously considering "tanking the economy" on purpose.

You're skirting CT territory here, man.

I base my opinion on
What they do.

JohnnyG · 23rd June 2011, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by Muldur

Well, those "few nutcases" have control of the party. What the Tea Party wants is what the GOP does with the non-TP Repubs too few in number and too scared of being targeted by the TP next election to speak or act.

Do you honestly believe the bulk of the Tea Party wants the economy to collapse? That's serious CT territory.

Beerina · 23rd June 2011, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

And when the smokes cleare we will have Libertopia.
Of course it might go the other way and we will have The People's Republic of America . Wishing total disaster because you might think your side will benefit is a risky business.

Hey, let's try just getting rid of the lying, thieving weasels who are running up debt hand over fist, and the asinine braindead nincompoops who vote for them, buying into the frauds that lie that we need to keep spending money hand over fist.

How about we reduce spending to "only" borrowing $400 billion per year, instead of $200 billion per month, going back to 2008-levels of spending. You know, when people were starving in the streets?

As long as people like you exist, and in the tens of millions, we will continue to have these problems because the lying frauds in Congress will continue to get elected.

We were sliding downhill fast, and these asses threw grease under the wheels and threw their wrists over their brows, screaming, "Woe is us! Can't cut!"

Lying asses all.

Dymanic · 23rd June 2011, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

Dude, I have no love for the current GOP (and I especially dislike the Tea Party loons), but I cannot for one moment buy the notion that the leaders within the GOP are seriously considering "tanking the economy" on purpose.

You're skirting CT territory here, man.

"Democrats are increasingly concerned that Republicans are setting them up to endorse large spending cuts in a deal to raise the national debt limit without giving ground on anything -- even GOP-friendly policy measures like tax cuts for business owners -- to stimulate the economy in the near-term."

"The concern arises as numerous top Republicans react coldly to the prospect of temporarily reducing the payroll tax burden on employers and employees -- to juice the economy before federal spending draws down in the years ahead."

"I don't like to question my colleagues' motives," noted Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) during his weekly Capitol press conference Tuesday, "but whether [they] work with us to pass these policies, or continue opposing ideas they once supported, will tell us a lot."

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...businesses.php

INRM · 23rd June 2011, 11:49 PM

They want our economy to max out and implode. It would be the best way to advance world government.

Bob Blaylock · 24th June 2011, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

Dude, I have no love for the current GOP (and I especially dislike the Tea Party loons), but I cannot for one moment buy the notion that the leaders within the GOP are seriously considering "tanking the economy" on purpose.

You're skirting CT territory here, man.

Keep in mind that you are responding to someone who thinks the way to “save” the economy involves more of the same kind of outrageous waste and fraud that the current administration has already perpetrated in unprecedented amounts under the guise of “bailouts” and “stimulus” spending.

To that mindset, any efforts to bring government spending under any semblance of control or responsibility will be seen as a deliberate effort to sabotage the economy.

Muldur · 24th June 2011, 05:18 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyG

Do you honestly believe the bulk of the Tea Party wants the economy to collapse? That's serious CT territory.

Actively want?

No.

Not caring if it does?

Yes.

They're the worst sort of doctrinaire ideologues. We've got plenty of them right here in this forum. They've got their ideology, their guns, and their survival food and the rest of the world can go to H*ll for all they care. It's more important that their way be shown to be RIGHT, than it is for them to DO right by the nation.

And those are the sort of people that control the Republican Party at the present time.

lomiller · 24th June 2011, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by thaiboxerken

The GOP has done nothing to help the economy. In fact, they have blocked legislation that would improve the economy.

Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

Dymanic · 24th June 2011, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by Muldur

And those are the sort of people that control the Republican Party at the present time.

It's not so hard to see how one might be led to the conclusion that the GOP is being "controlled" by these extremists, but while the Tea Party has done much to divide and weaken the Republican Party, it does not "control" it by any stretch. It has to be a tough time to be a Republican politician, torn between wanting to see Obama fail and wanting to see the country succeed, and having to dance around like crazy trying to appeal both to the traditional GOP base and to these demented teabagger know-nothings.

TmoonII · 24th June 2011, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by Muldur

The problem is that the "Tea Party goofs" have the ~~votes~~, media and they know it.

Fixed it for verification of how American culture works.

I'd also like to remove the word "POTUS" from the dictionary.

Muldur · 24th June 2011, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by lomiller

Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

That's actually rather droll...nice job!

lomiller · 24th June 2011, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Muldur

That's actually rather droll...nice job!

Not mine I'm afraid. It should have had, quotes around it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark's_Law

mhaze · 24th June 2011, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Beerina

Hey, let's try just getting rid of the lying, thieving weasels who are running up debt hand over fist, and the asinine braindead nincompoops who vote for them, buying into the frauds that lie that we need to keep spending money hand over fist.

How about we reduce spending to "only" borrowing $400 billion per year, instead of $200 billion per month, going back to 2008-levels of spending. You know, when people were starving in the streets?

As long as people like you exist, and in the tens of millions, we will continue to have these problems because the lying frauds in Congress will continue to get elected.

We were sliding downhill fast, and these asses threw grease under the wheels and threw their wrists over their brows, screaming, "Woe is us! Can't cut!"

Lying asses all.

What??? What's your problem, dude? Are you in the real world or something?

Hey, you need to get back into this nice warm fuzzy blanket of a delusional wacko fringe progressive baby basket. I know it smells a bit because of the way these babies have crapped all over the place, but don't you want to be With the Program?

Or what are you saying? The adults take control of the checkbook?

Just when the party was getting good?

23rd June 2011, 03:41 PM	#1
Muldur Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,968	Breaking News: Debt Ceiling Talks Collapse http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...se_leaves.html As of approximately 90 minutes ago, House Republican Leader Cantor and Senator Kyle (also Republican) pulled out of the negotiations to raise the debt ceiling, citing Democratic insistence that tax increases as well as spending cuts be part of the package. This purely ideological move on the part of the lunatic Tea Partiers and their allies puts the US in real risk of full out default on debt payments come the first week of August, and the instantaneous shutdown of major social programs such as Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, Food Stamps, etc. CALL, do not write...CALL your Congressmen. Tell them to get back to the negotiating table NOW! Call the White House and urge the President to declare a state of Economic Emergency and assume direct control over the issue unless Congress gets it's act together!
Muldur Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,968

23rd June 2011, 04:44 PM	#3
UndercoverElephant Pachyderm of a Thousand Faces Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sussex, England Posts: 9,060	Originally Posted by dudalb It' s all political theater, guy. You seem not to have paid much attention to the way things work, guy. How do things work then, dudalb? It's certainly first-class entertainment, but it's also a lot more. People are making decisions which have very real consequences. This is a game of 23-dimensional poker.
	__________________ "I am real!" said Alice, and began to cry. "You won't make yourself a bit realler by crying," Tweedledee remarked: "there's nothing to cry about." Last edited by UndercoverElephant; 23rd June 2011 at 04:46 PM.

23rd June 2011, 04:58 PM	#5
UndercoverElephant Pachyderm of a Thousand Faces Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sussex, England Posts: 9,060	Originally Posted by dudalb That is just it.It's bluffing. There's plenty of bluffing going on, but that doesn't mean there won't be (relative) winners and losers, and the stakes are high.
	__________________ "I am real!" said Alice, and began to cry. "You won't make yourself a bit realler by crying," Tweedledee remarked: "there's nothing to cry about."

23rd June 2011, 04:58 PM	#6
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 14,175	Originally Posted by dudalb That is just it.It's bluffing. And Don't think that talks are not still happening behind hte scenes. Of course you don't like us Evil Gun Loving Yanks anyway....... This ^ The smart, establishment Republicans are using this as a cynical move to get as much as they can in negotiations before they ultimately raise the debt ceiling (and the smart Democrats know it). They know that if the U.S. defaults then they're totally screwed politically, so they're doing this to look tough for both purposes of negotiations and to impress the Tea Party loons (whom they need in GOP primaries).
	__________________ Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher The Times They Are A-Changin'

23rd June 2011, 04:58 PM	#7
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,970	I don't think the GOP would mind collapsing the economy. The wealthy don't hurt so much and may gain more power if it were to happen. Also, Cantor is a tea party loon.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

23rd June 2011, 04:39 PM	#2
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,836	It' s all political theater, guy. You seem not to have paid much attention to the way things work, guy.

23rd June 2011, 04:52 PM	#4
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,836	That is just it.It's bluffing. And Don't think that talks are not still happening behind hte scenes. Of course you don't like us Evil Gun Loving Yanks anyway.......

23rd June 2011, 05:04 PM	#8
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 14,175	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken I don't think the GOP would mind collapsing the economy. The wealthy don't hurt so much and may gain more power if it were to happen. Wrong. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce has all but said that if the GOP allows the debt ceiling deadline to pass without raising it, and if that starts to hit the economy negatively, then there will be dire consequences for the party. In other words, "You won't be getting our money for your campaigns." Link The U.S. CoC may be a bunch of big money business people, but they aren't stupid, and they know that if the economy takes a real hit it hurts them, too. Not as much as it would hurt the rest of us, but it will hurt business, and they don't want that.
	__________________ Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher The Times They Are A-Changin'

23rd June 2011, 05:09 PM	#9
JohnnyG Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 256	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken I don't think the GOP would mind collapsing the economy. The wealthy don't hurt so much and may gain more power if it were to happen. Also, Cantor is a tea party loon. You truly believe the GOP wouldn't mind collapsing the economy...and you call Cantor a loon?
JohnnyG Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 256

23rd June 2011, 05:19 PM	#10
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,970	Originally Posted by JohnnyG You truly believe the GOP wouldn't mind collapsing the economy...and you call Cantor a loon? A collapse would help them get more power.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

23rd June 2011, 05:24 PM	#11
Muldur Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,968	Originally Posted by UndercoverElephant How do things work then, dudalb? It's certainly first-class entertainment, but it's also a lot more. People are making decisions which have very real consequences. Like the TWO times they shivved the unemployed in the back on extended benefits. These Tea Partier whack jobs are blind ideologues. They'll burn our society to the ground to get what they want.
Muldur Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,968

23rd June 2011, 05:27 PM	#12
Muldur Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,968	Originally Posted by JohnnyG You truly believe the GOP wouldn't mind collapsing the economy...and you call Cantor a loon? I don't think it's the whole party, just the Tea Party nutjob wing that has the others by the proverbial balls right now. They're the worst sort of dogmatic ideologues.
Muldur Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,968

23rd June 2011, 05:27 PM	#13
JohnnyG Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 256	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken A collapse would help them get more power. CT forum that way --->
JohnnyG Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 256

23rd June 2011, 05:35 PM	#14
JohnnyG Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 256	Originally Posted by Muldur I don't think it's the whole party, just the Tea Party nutjob wing that has the others by the proverbial balls right now. They're the worst sort of dogmatic ideologues. There's always a few nutcases, but I highly doubt it's even a significant part of the Tea Party that wants the economy to collapse, let alone the GOP as was claimed.
JohnnyG Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 256

23rd June 2011, 05:43 PM	#15
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,970	The GOP has done nothing to help the economy. In fact, they have blocked legislation that would improve the economy.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

23rd June 2011, 05:44 PM	#16
ServiceSoon Muse Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 995	Calm down. Nobody wants the economy to collapse. Did you know that all of this unnecessary stress is shrinking your hippocampus?
ServiceSoon Muse Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 995

23rd June 2011, 05:44 PM	#17
JohnnyG Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 256	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken The GOP has done nothing to help the economy. In fact, they have blocked legislation that would improve the economy. Do you not understand how politics works, or do you just repeat party talking points?
JohnnyG Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 256

23rd June 2011, 05:49 PM	#18
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by dudalb It' s all political theater, guy. You seem not to have paid much attention to the way things work, guy. This, sad to say. Otherwise I'd be happy letting it all crash to the ground and burn.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

23rd June 2011, 06:25 PM	#19
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,836	Originally Posted by MattusMaximus Wrong. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce has all but said that if the GOP allows the debt ceiling deadline to pass without raising it, and if that starts to hit the economy negatively, then there will be dire consequences for the party. In other words, "You won't be getting our money for your campaigns." Link The U.S. CoC may be a bunch of big money business people, but they aren't stupid, and they know that if the economy takes a real hit it hurts them, too. Not as much as it would hurt the rest of us, but it will hurt business, and they don't want that. And not just the COC. Just about every major business group has made it known that the US defaulting will NOT be a good idea. In the end, if it is a show down between the Tea Party and the Big Money , I am not betting on the Tea Party.

23rd June 2011, 06:26 PM	#20
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,836	Originally Posted by Beerina This, sad to say. Otherwise I'd be happy letting it all crash to the ground and burn. And when the smokes cleare we will have Libertopia. Of course it might go the other way and we will have The People's Republic of America . Wishing total disaster because you might think your side will benefit is a risky business.

23rd June 2011, 06:51 PM	#21
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 14,175	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken A collapse would help them get more power. Dude, I have no love for the current GOP (and I especially dislike the Tea Party loons), but I cannot for one moment buy the notion that the leaders within the GOP are seriously considering "tanking the economy" on purpose. You're skirting CT territory here, man.
	__________________ Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher The Times They Are A-Changin'

23rd June 2011, 06:53 PM	#22
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 14,175	Originally Posted by dudalb And not just the COC. Just about every major business group has made it known that the US defaulting will NOT be a good idea. In the end, if it is a show down between the Tea Party and the Big Money , I am not betting on the Tea Party. This ^ The Tea Party will find themselves out on their collective asses, and quick, if they do anything so reckless as sabotaging the raising of the debt ceiling. And there will be collateral damage to the GOP in general. This is why I suspect there are some pretty heated discussions going on behind closed doors within the GOP between the pragmatists and the Tea Party goofs.
	__________________ Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher The Times They Are A-Changin'

23rd June 2011, 06:55 PM	#23
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 14,175	Originally Posted by dudalb And when the smokes cleare we will have Libertopia. Of course it might go the other way and we will have The People's Republic of America . Wishing total disaster because you might think your side will benefit is a risky business. I thought that was called "Somalia"?
	__________________ Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher The Times They Are A-Changin'

23rd June 2011, 07:13 PM	#24
Muldur Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,968	Originally Posted by JohnnyG There's always a few nutcases, but I highly doubt it's even a significant part of the Tea Party that wants the economy to collapse, let alone the GOP as was claimed. Well, those "few nutcases" have control of the party. What the Tea Party wants is what the GOP does with the non-TP Repubs too few in number and too scared of being targeted by the TP next election to speak or act.
Muldur Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,968

23rd June 2011, 07:14 PM	#25
Muldur Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,968	Originally Posted by ServiceSoon Calm down. Nobody wants the economy to collapse. They have a funny way of showing it...
Muldur Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,968

23rd June 2011, 07:15 PM	#26
Muldur Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,968	Originally Posted by Beerina This, sad to say. Otherwise I'd be happy letting it all crash to the ground and burn. What kind of monster are you?
Muldur Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,968

23rd June 2011, 07:18 PM	#27
Muldur Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,968	Originally Posted by MattusMaximus This ^ The Tea Party will find themselves out on their collective asses, and quick, if they do anything so reckless as sabotaging the raising of the debt ceiling. And there will be collateral damage to the GOP in general. This is why I suspect there are some pretty heated discussions going on behind closed doors within the GOP between the pragmatists and the Tea Party goofs. The problem is that the "Tea Party goofs" have the votes, and they know it.
Muldur Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,968

23rd June 2011, 09:09 PM	#28
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,970	Originally Posted by MattusMaximus Dude, I have no love for the current GOP (and I especially dislike the Tea Party loons), but I cannot for one moment buy the notion that the leaders within the GOP are seriously considering "tanking the economy" on purpose. You're skirting CT territory here, man. I base my opinion on What they do.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

23rd June 2011, 09:18 PM	#29
JohnnyG Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 256	Originally Posted by Muldur Well, those "few nutcases" have control of the party. What the Tea Party wants is what the GOP does with the non-TP Repubs too few in number and too scared of being targeted by the TP next election to speak or act. Do you honestly believe the bulk of the Tea Party wants the economy to collapse? That's serious CT territory.
JohnnyG Critical Thinker Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 256

23rd June 2011, 09:23 PM	#30
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by dudalb And when the smokes cleare we will have Libertopia. Of course it might go the other way and we will have The People's Republic of America . Wishing total disaster because you might think your side will benefit is a risky business. Hey, let's try just getting rid of the lying, thieving weasels who are running up debt hand over fist, and the asinine braindead nincompoops who vote for them, buying into the frauds that lie that we need to keep spending money hand over fist. How about we reduce spending to "only" borrowing $400 billion per year, instead of $200 billion per month, going back to 2008-levels of spending. You know, when people were starving in the streets? As long as people like you exist, and in the tens of millions, we will continue to have these problems because the lying frauds in Congress will continue to get elected. We were sliding downhill fast, and these asses threw grease under the wheels and threw their wrists over their brows, screaming, "Woe is us! Can't cut!" Lying asses all.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right? Last edited by Beerina; 23rd June 2011 at 09:25 PM.

23rd June 2011, 10:24 PM	#31
Dymanic Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 4,734	Originally Posted by MattusMaximus Dude, I have no love for the current GOP (and I especially dislike the Tea Party loons), but I cannot for one moment buy the notion that the leaders within the GOP are seriously considering "tanking the economy" on purpose. You're skirting CT territory here, man. "Democrats are increasingly concerned that Republicans are setting them up to endorse large spending cuts in a deal to raise the national debt limit without giving ground on anything -- even GOP-friendly policy measures like tax cuts for business owners -- to stimulate the economy in the near-term." "The concern arises as numerous top Republicans react coldly to the prospect of temporarily reducing the payroll tax burden on employers and employees -- to juice the economy before federal spending draws down in the years ahead." "I don't like to question my colleagues' motives," noted Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) during his weekly Capitol press conference Tuesday, "but whether [they] work with us to pass these policies, or continue opposing ideas they once supported, will tell us a lot." http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...businesses.php
Dymanic Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 4,734

23rd June 2011, 11:49 PM	#32
INRM Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 5,490	They want our economy to max out and implode. It would be the best way to advance world government.
INRM Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 5,490

24th June 2011, 12:01 AM	#33
Bob Blaylock Forklift Operator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: N38°35' W121°29' Posts: 3,013	Originally Posted by MattusMaximus Dude, I have no love for the current GOP (and I especially dislike the Tea Party loons), but I cannot for one moment buy the notion that the leaders within the GOP are seriously considering "tanking the economy" on purpose. You're skirting CT territory here, man. Keep in mind that you are responding to someone who thinks the way to “save” the economy involves more of the same kind of outrageous waste and fraud that the current administration has already perpetrated in unprecedented amounts under the guise of “bailouts” and “stimulus” spending. To that mindset, any efforts to bring government spending under any semblance of control or responsibility will be seen as a deliberate effort to sabotage the economy.

24th June 2011, 05:18 AM	#34
Muldur Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,968	Originally Posted by JohnnyG Do you honestly believe the bulk of the Tea Party wants the economy to collapse? That's serious CT territory. Actively want? No. Not caring if it does? Yes. They're the worst sort of doctrinaire ideologues. We've got plenty of them right here in this forum. They've got their ideology, their guns, and their survival food and the rest of the world can go to H*ll for all they care. It's more important that their way be shown to be RIGHT, than it is for them to DO right by the nation. And those are the sort of people that control the Republican Party at the present time.
Muldur Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,968

24th June 2011, 06:52 AM	#35
lomiller Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,869	Originally Posted by thaiboxerken The GOP has done nothing to help the economy. In fact, they have blocked legislation that would improve the economy. Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.
lomiller Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 6,869	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"