IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 30th June 2011, 06:44 AM   #1
boyntonstu
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 908
Exclamation Police Report: All Assault Rapists in Oslo Follow Muhammad

Police Report: All Assault Rapists in Oslo Follow Muhammad

by Gil Ronen


Defenders of Islam call it a "religion of peace" but many Norwegian women are learning that Islam is the religion of rape. According to an amazing police report released there this month, every single solved case of assault-rape in the country in 2010 was carried out by a Muslim immigrant.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/145161

http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/12...in-sweden.html


According to a new study from the Crime Prevention Council, Brå, it is four times more likely that a known rapist is born abroad, compared to persons born in Sweden. Resident aliens from Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia dominate the group of rape suspects. According to these statistics, almost half of all perpetrators are immigrants. In Norway and Denmark, we know that non-Western immigrants, which frequently means Muslims, are grossly overrepresented on rape statistics.

Last edited by boyntonstu; 30th June 2011 at 07:08 AM.
boyntonstu is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2011, 07:22 AM   #2
ddt
Mafia Penguin
 
ddt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 19,579
Originally Posted by boyntonstu View Post
Police Report: All Assault Rapists in Oslo Follow Muhammad

by Gil Ronen
Follow Israel news on and .

Defenders of Islam call it a "religion of peace" but many Norwegian women are learning that Islam is the religion of rape. According to an amazing police report released there this month, every single solved case of assault-rape in the country in 2010 was carried out by a Muslim immigrant.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/145161
His source is a Norwegian TV broadcast, featured here on youtube, which is subtitled by the youtube poster "blogpostKitmanTV". Let's see what those subtitles say:
Quote:
00:00:01:75 00:00:06:30 In Oslo all sexual assaults involving rape in the past year
00:00:06:30 00:00:10:45 has been committed by males of non-western background
00:00:10:45 00:00:13:78 this was the conclusion of a police report published today
00:00:13:78 00:00:16:55 This means that every single rape assault in the last five years,
00:00:16:55 00:00:22:11 where the rapist could be identified, he was a man of foreign origin,
Note the highlighted bit? Mr. Ronen has shifted from "foreign origin" to "Muslim". Let's just call a spade a spade: mr. Ronen is a liar.

I don't know Norwegian so I can't say if the subtitling is correct. I find it peculiar though that mr. Ronen does give a link to a 10 year old article in Aftenposten but not a recent one. The youtube poster seems to have a very heavy axe to grind too, though - check out his youtube channel or his blogspot domain - so I'm not inclined to believe his claims without independent corroboration either.
__________________
"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf

"I think accuracy is important" - Vixen
ddt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2011, 07:28 AM   #3
Aepervius
Non credunt, semper verificare
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sigil, the city of doors
Posts: 14,571
Does that mean that that wiki leak guy is innocent ? Or that he is a muslim ? Or that he did his alleged rape before 2010 .

PS: I seriously doubt anyway that only foreigner did rape in Oslo.
Aepervius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2011, 07:40 AM   #4
Mark6
Philosopher
 
Mark6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,260
Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
PS: I seriously doubt anyway that only foreigner did rape in Oslo.
He specified "assault rape". What is the difference in Norwegian law between "assault" and "non-assault" rape?
__________________
Gamemaster: "A horde of rotting zombies is shambling toward you. The sign over the door says 'Accounting'"
Mark6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2011, 11:24 AM   #5
Leif Roar
Master Poster
 
Leif Roar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,795
Originally Posted by Mark6 View Post
He specified "assault rape". What is the difference in Norwegian law between "assault" and "non-assault" rape?
Legally, it's the same crime, but for purpose of statistics they register rapes in sub-categories. Last year, assault rapes made up about 13% of the total reported rapes in Oslo.


Anyway, here's from the horse's mouth (translation below):

"Grove generaliseringer om at Oslos voldtektsmenn er utlendinger og i hovedsak muslimer, er både feilaktig, utlistrekkelig og uheldig. I alt 3⁄4 av de 152 kjente gjerningsmennene som ble anmeldt i 2010 har europeisk statsborgerskap, i all hovedsak norsk. Halvparten har etniske røtter i Europa og igjen hovedsakelig Norge. De øvrige gjerningsmennene hadde herkomst fra ulike kontinenter og land. Utenom Norge som den vanligste landbakgrunnen med 50 gjerningsmenn, var 9 fra Pakistan, 8 fra Irak og 7 fra Litauen for å nevne de største gruppene. Den etniske profilen på gjerningsmenn varierer innenfor de ulike lovbruddene og voldtektstypene, men forskjellene er samtidig så små at det snarere er likheten som er påfallende. For samtlige voldtektstyper unntatt overfallsvoldtekt er europeiske gjerningsmenn i flertall, hvorav flest norske. Overfallsvoldtektene omhandler imidlertid kun 5 identifiserte, unike personer. Disse har utenlandsk opprinnelse, men 2 var svært unge (under 18 år) og 2 hadde alvorlige psykiatriske diagnoser og kan ikke regnes som representative for sin etniske kultur. Gjerningspersonene som ikke er identifisert i de øvrige 16 overfallsvoldtektene, beskrives både som av norsk/europeisk, afrikansk/mørkhudet, og asiatisk utseende"

In English:

"Gross generalisations about how Oslo's rapists are foreigners and predominantly muslim are both erroneous, inaccurate and unfortunate. Of the 152 known perpetrators who were reported in 2010, 3/4 have European citizenship, mainly Norwegian. Half have ethnic roots in Europe and again mainly in Norway. The remaining perpetrators had origins from various continents and countries. Besides Norway as the most common country of origin with 50 perpetrators, 9 were from Pakistan, 8 from Iraq and 7 from Lithuania, to mention the largest groupings. The ethnic profile of perpetrators varies within the differing crimes and types of rape, but the differences are so minute that it is the similarities that become apparent. For all types of rape except assault rapes European perpetrators are the majority, most of them Norwegian. The assault rapes, however, only covers 5 identified, unique perpetrators. They do have foreign origins, but 2 were very young (less than 18 years of age) and 2 were diagnosed with serious psychiatric conditions and can not be seen as representative of their ethnic culture."
__________________
"Our feature on cloud seeding (16 Apr, p40) should have started with the words 'Cannons blazed'. No clergy were set on fire in China's rainmaking experiment." -- New Scientist, 7th May 2005
Leif Roar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2011, 04:11 PM   #6
Ryokan
Insert something funny here
 
Ryokan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Norway
Posts: 10,816
There have been around a dozen assault rapes in Oslo over the past year or so.

For some reason, these are more important than all the other types of rape. Probably because in this specific kind of rape, foreigners are overrepresented and as such can be used to build a case for those with agendas.
Ryokan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2011, 04:50 PM   #7
ddt
Mafia Penguin
 
ddt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 19,579
Originally Posted by Leif Roar View Post
Anyway, here's from the horse's mouth (translation below):
Thanks Leif!

And when you say the horse's mouth, you mean the actual police report published here, on p. 86, chapter "conclusions", subheading "extra risk with foreigners"?
__________________
"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf

"I think accuracy is important" - Vixen
ddt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2011, 09:25 PM   #8
Leif Roar
Master Poster
 
Leif Roar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,795
Originally Posted by ddt View Post
And when you say the horse's mouth, you mean the actual police report published here, on p. 86, chapter "conclusions", subheading "extra risk with foreigners"?
That's the ungulate in question, yes.
__________________
"Our feature on cloud seeding (16 Apr, p40) should have started with the words 'Cannons blazed'. No clergy were set on fire in China's rainmaking experiment." -- New Scientist, 7th May 2005
Leif Roar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2011, 09:52 PM   #9
SezMe
post-pre-born
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 25,183
In light of post #5, I can hardly wait to see boyntonstu's response.
SezMe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2011, 10:46 PM   #10
fuelair
Banned
 
fuelair's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 58,581
Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
In light of post #5, I can hardly wait to see boyntonstu's response.
I could be wrong but I suspect that after the pretty fast thrashing he has recieved you are not likely to have that specific pleasure. I predict you can go ahead and carry on with your life.
fuelair is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2011, 11:39 PM   #11
SezMe
post-pre-born
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 25,183
You may well be right, fuelair, but I am reminded of the thread somewhere here referencing the Titanic and the Snopes article. I badly want boyntonstu to be wrong, which is exactly the kind of circumstances where us fallible humans are likely to fool ourselves. But, following your advice, I won't put life on hold either.
SezMe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2011, 04:12 AM   #12
ddt
Mafia Penguin
 
ddt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 19,579
Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
You may well be right, fuelair, but I am reminded of the thread somewhere here referencing the Titanic and the Snopes article. I badly want boyntonstu to be wrong, which is exactly the kind of circumstances where us fallible humans are likely to fool ourselves. But, following your advice, I won't put life on hold either.
In light of the fact that boyntonstu typically cites the kind of Islam bashers who operate fast and loose with the truth, that is pretty much a given, isn't it? Anyway, his (first) source hasn't been picked apart completely yet, and well, with the actual report in hand and Google translate in the other, let's have a party. I hope Leif, Ryokan or other Norwegians will correct me if I make mistakes in what I read in the report.
Quote:
Yehuda Bello, an Israeli blogger who is well-acquainted with Norwegian culture, noted the report
So Mr. Rosen has a correspondent who could have read the report and actually told him what was in the report? Or do I read that incorrectly? I'd say "well-acquainted with N. culture" starts with knowing the language.

Anyway, let's look at the figures he claims:
Quote:
According to the police report there was a total of 186 of known rape cases in 2010. These fall into various categories, the largest one of which is assault-rape, carried out by sheer physical force, of which there were 86 cases.
Let's then first look at Table 3 on p. 27. It has three columns which give the legal categories:
- attempted rape according to penal code par. 49;
- rape according to penal code par. 192, subpar. 1 & 2;
- rape with aggravated circumstances according to par. 192 subpar. 3 - e.g., gang rape, leading to death or transmission of STDs, prior conviction - which raises the maximum sentence from 3 to 21 years.
(the penal code is cited on p. 8).

The rows distinguish the rape to the social circumstances: "festrelatert" is "party rape", "relasjon" is rape within an established relation (not only an SO but also friends and family, see p. 34), "sårbarhet" on vulnerable people without a good social network (it mentions on p. 24 psychiatric patients, prostitutes, drug users), "annet" is "others" and "overfall" is "assault rape", a surprising and random attack, e.g., the stereotypical rape by a stranger who drags off a woman off the street. That accounts for only 24 cases (12.9%), of which 8 attempted rape and 16 rape.

Further down that page is Table 2, which has the same layout, but now tabulates the cases with known perpetrators: 152 of the 186 total cases. Of the "assault rape", none of the 8 attempted rape cases, and only 6 of the 16 rape cases had a known perpetrator. So we're down to 25% of the total of the "assault rape" cases. Table 3 on the next page tallies these into perpetrators with "Norwegian background" - according to footnote 17 on p. 11 someone with at least one parent born in Norway - and "non-Norwegian background". All 6 known assault rape cases are by perpetrators with a non-Norwegian background. For all we know up to now, that includes Danes and Swedes. The preceding paragraph, top of p. 28, says that additionally, a number of unknown perpetrators had been described by the victim as looking western/nordic (could also be Danes/Swedes ).

Thus far, we can conclude that Mr. Rosen's numbers of "86 assault rape cases" with 83 with a known perpetrator are way off. He seems to have pulled those numbers completely out of his arse; The number 83 only appears in table 3 as the grand total of simple rape cases by known non-Norwegian perpetrators. The number 86 appears twice: in Table 31 as a total of cases in which the perp was intoxicated, and in Table 5.

That brings us to another error in Mr. Rosen's diatribe: he wrote:
Quote:
These fall into various categories, the largest one of which is assault-rape, carried out by sheer physical force, of which there were 86 cases.
However, the category "assault rape" describes the social circumstances, not the method by which the rapist overpowers his victim. The chapter starting at p. 30 now discusses this aspect. Table 5 gives five categories: "drugging", "physical coercion", "beating", "weapon" and "other/unknown". As you can see, the total number of "physical coercion" cases is indeed 86. Table 7 on p. 31 now tabulates the method against the social circumstances. As you can see, "drugging" was mainly employed in "party rape" circumstances - unsurprisingly - and never in "assault rape" cases, also unsurprisingly. The other three specified methods appear in roughly the same proportions in all social circumstances.

So we can conclude that his equating "assault rape" with "physical force" is way off the mark too.

To expand on the paragraph from the conclusions that Leif already cited, tables 29 and 30 on p. 55 tabulate the ethnic background against the social circumstances of the 152 rape cases. "Middle East" here comprises Turkey, Iraq and Iran, but not Egypt or North Africa. Of the 6 assault rape cases, 4 were committed by 3 different Middle-Easterners, 1 by an African and 1 by an Asian. Of course, these numbers are statistically meaningless. Moreover, as mentioned, of those 5 perps, 2 were underage and 2 were psych cases.

The paragraph between those two tables further mentions that of the 18 unidentified assault rape cases, in 8 cases the perp was described as black/dark skinned, in 5 cases as white and in 4 cases as Asian.

Lastly, the report stresses a couple of times that Oslo is a cosmopolitan city and that ethnic background may thus be meaningless. However, while it does tabulate the rapist population for its ethnic background, it does not compare them to the population-at-large.
__________________
"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf

"I think accuracy is important" - Vixen
ddt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2011, 04:50 AM   #13
Leif Roar
Master Poster
 
Leif Roar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,795
Originally Posted by ddt View Post
Lastly, the report stresses a couple of times that Oslo is a cosmopolitan city and that ethnic background may thus be meaningless. However, while it does tabulate the rapist population for its ethnic background, it does not compare them to the population-at-large.
28% of Oslo's population are immigrants or have immigrant parents. The distribution would roughly match the numbers given for Oslo here (those numbers are slightly older and may not include people born in Norway to immigrant parents, but the ratios should be about the same.)
__________________
"Our feature on cloud seeding (16 Apr, p40) should have started with the words 'Cannons blazed'. No clergy were set on fire in China's rainmaking experiment." -- New Scientist, 7th May 2005
Leif Roar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2011, 05:08 AM   #14
DC
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,064
Originally Posted by boyntonstu View Post
Police Report: All Assault Rapists in Oslo Follow Muhammad

by Gil Ronen


Defenders of Islam call it a "religion of peace" but many Norwegian women are learning that Islam is the religion of rape. According to an amazing police report released there this month, every single solved case of assault-rape in the country in 2010 was carried out by a Muslim immigrant.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/145161

http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/12...in-sweden.html


According to a new study from the Crime Prevention Council, Brå, it is four times more likely that a known rapist is born abroad, compared to persons born in Sweden. Resident aliens from Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia dominate the group of rape suspects. According to these statistics, almost half of all perpetrators are immigrants. In Norway and Denmark, we know that non-Western immigrants, which frequently means Muslims, are grossly overrepresented on rape statistics.
LOL that is what you get when you take Pat Condells claims for granted without checking his own source. his source do not support his claims.
im sure others have already pointed it out just came across this topic.
take Pat's claims with a huge junk of salt.
DC is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2011, 05:15 AM   #15
Information Analyst
Penultimate Amazing
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 10,099
Virtual high-fives to ddt and Leif for such a comprehensive destruction of this nasty mis-reporting.

Some really wacky comments on the "news" story, though, e.g.: "Perhaps now, the Norwegians, anti semitic as they are will recognize and feel the pain that Jews have felt at the hands of Arab Muslims for thousands, yes, thousands of years."

Got to fear that time-travelling, trans-dimensional Islam!

Last edited by Information Analyst; 1st July 2011 at 05:24 AM.
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2011, 06:33 AM   #16
ddt
Mafia Penguin
 
ddt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 19,579
Originally Posted by DC View Post
LOL that is what you get when you take Pat Condells claims for granted without checking his own source. his source do not support his claims.
im sure others have already pointed it out just came across this topic.
take Pat's claims with a huge junk of salt.
LOL, yes, Pat Condell claimed it in one of his videos.
Here's the video where he claimed it (the link takes you to the right part). It's from June 15th. Note how many times he stresses "all the rapes".

He's also made a follow-up video on June 22nd. It's really pathetic. He first retracts his claim, then stresses the one single case that was broadcast on the Norwegian NRK news broadcast where a woman was interviewed who said her attacker was Muslim and that he claimed his faith justified rape. Then Pat is again where he wants and embarks on a diatribe against Islam.
__________________
"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf

"I think accuracy is important" - Vixen
ddt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2011, 06:35 AM   #17
eirik
Muse
 
eirik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 729
Hold on to your hats. Looking at the report now. https://www.politi.no/vedlegg/lokale...dlegg_1309.pdf

What the report actually states is that *every* solved case of assault rape in Norway in 2010 was commited by a non-western immigrant(Africa, Middle-East, Asia). (BTW: This is well known, and have been the case since 2007 when they started counting)

This often, but not nearly always means Muslim. So the OP is not entirely accurate, but not entirely off either.

Also: Non-western immigrants is statistically overrepresented also in rape statistics overall. Non-western immigrants(Excluding Norwegians, Americans and Europans), about 15 % of the population, accounts for roughly 50 % of all types of rapes. That is worrying.
__________________
"I do not believe in the immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern without any superhuman authority behind it." -Albert Einstein
eirik is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2011, 07:44 AM   #18
DC
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,064
Originally Posted by ddt View Post
LOL, yes, Pat Condell claimed it in one of his videos.
Here's the video where he claimed it (the link takes you to the right part). It's from June 15th. Note how many times he stresses "all the rapes".

He's also made a follow-up video on June 22nd. It's really pathetic. He first retracts his claim, then stresses the one single case that was broadcast on the Norwegian NRK news broadcast where a woman was interviewed who said her attacker was Muslim and that he claimed his faith justified rape. Then Pat is again where he wants and embarks on a diatribe against Islam.
yeah im subscribed to his YT account, saw it, some of his rants are good
DC is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2011, 02:54 PM   #19
ddt
Mafia Penguin
 
ddt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 19,579
Originally Posted by eirik View Post
Hold on to your hats. Looking at the report now. https://www.politi.no/vedlegg/lokale...dlegg_1309.pdf
Yep, we already found out. (see posts #7 and #8).

Originally Posted by eirik View Post
What the report actually states is that *every* solved case of assault rape in Norway in 2010 was commited by a non-western immigrant(Africa, Middle-East, Asia). (BTW: This is well known, and have been the case since 2007 when they started counting)
Yep, we got that too. We also got that only 25% of the assault rape cases were solved, i.e., that the perpetrator was known (see post #12). We also got that we're talking about 6 cases by 5 different rapists. We also got that the 18 unidentified cases are not only Middle Eastern types.

I extracted the info in post #12 from the report mainly by means of Google Translate, so if there are any inaccuracies, I'm happy to hear corrections.

Originally Posted by eirik View Post
This often, but not nearly always means Muslim. So the OP is not entirely accurate, but not entirely off either.
The report doesn't say so. While I'll grant that "Middle East = Muslim" with 95%+ accuracy, I'm not convinced for African or Asian immigrants.

I think you're giving the OP too much credit. Pat Condell is an unreconstructed Islam basher. The writer of the blog post the OP cites, Mr. Rosen, obviously is what I'd dub as "lying for Zion": he belongs to the right-wing Zionists who have co-opted the anti-Islam sentiments in the West as a rhetorical weapon in the Israel/Palestine conflict, equating Israels struggle with Hamas as their part in "the West against Islam" (never mind that the Palestinian struggle against Israel started with the PLO, a purely secular organization). The OP belongs to the same school, judging from his posting history here.

The OP's equating "all assault rapists are Muslims" is thus not merely an inaccuracy, but a deliberate distortion. It is wrong on various counts.

1. We haven't even established that all those 6 identified assault rapes were by Muslims; the police report doesn't say so. Even less so of the 18 unidentified ones.

2. The blog post mentions "83 out of 86" of the assault rapes. I see now the blog post uncritically copied this number from the TV report and then equated "non-western = Muslim". He also conveniently forgot to mention that these numbers were for 2006-2010, not for 2010 alone. Those numbers are again not warranted by the 2010 report, even less so the equation that all non-western types are Muslims. (Question: what does "asiatisk utseende" mean in Norwegian? Looking like a Chinese/Japanese or like an Indian/Pakistani?). The mention of higher numbers than are actually in the report gives an air of higher statistical significance (and I'm not going to search for the reports of previous years: the 2010 report doesn't give enough data for even such accurate numbers for 2010 alone).

3. As we've seen above, the blogger is now down to 83 out of 86. Still the title is "All assault rapists...", and again emphasizes that in the opening paragraph: "every single case of assault rape...". So he is deliberately lying. The OP uncritically copied this into the opening post.

4. Apart from all the uncertainty over the numbers: correlation is not causation. The message is very clear in Pat Condell's videos I linked to above: he outright claims that Islam promotes rape. As for Norway, he has exactly one data point: the woman interviewed by NRK who related that her rapist said his Muslim faith condoned rape. That's like saying that all Christians hate gays because Fred Phelps says so. Wake me up when there's a fatwah from Cairo's Al-Azhar University or some such, but don't come with this BS. The message of causation is also quite clear between the lines with the Israeli blogger and with the OP.

Originally Posted by eirik View Post
Also: Non-western immigrants is statistically overrepresented also in rape statistics overall. Non-western immigrants(Excluding Norwegians, Americans and Europans), about 15 % of the population, accounts for roughly 50 % of all types of rapes. That is worrying.
I've noticed that over-representation too. As for the numbers, we're talking here about Oslo, which has higher rates of immigrants than Norway overall, so let's try to do it right. I've dug up two tables from Statistics Norway (thanks Leif for putting me on the trail):
Table 11 - numbers of immigrants in Oslo per 01-01-2011. Unfortunately, this table lumps them into bigger categories than the police report.
DIY table - select as region "Police district Oslo" and all country backgrounds, year 2011. Unfortunately, that doesn't give us a distinction between "Middle East" and the rest of Asia, but I'm now too lazy to try to find another table and select all ME countries and add the numbers.

This gives the following numbers for Oslo per 01-01-2011, compared with the numbers from the police report in table 29 on p. 55:
RegionPopulationPop. %Rapes Rape %
Norway 429,024 72% 53 35%
Europe 57,581 10% 21 14%
Americas 7,573 1% 3 2%
Africa 30,080 5% 30 20%
Asia 74,425 12% 45 30%
Oceania 547 0% 0 0%
Total 599,230 100% 152 100%

So yes, there's a big over-representation of rapes by immigrants from Africa and Asia. Now we could try to have a meaningful discussion why that is the case. This blog post claims:
Quote:
The police report also points out that "it must be stressed that the strong over-representation of people from minority backgrounds for several types of rape can not be interpreted as meaning that foreign culture is a causal explanation of rape" and that "the statistical difference in criminal behaviour between ethnic groups disappears when controlling for socio-economic conditions". It concludes: "Gross generalisations that have given the impression that the rapists are only foreigners – and largely Muslim – prove inadequate and erroneous."
Those first two quotes come from the top of page 56. In plain English: rape occurs more among poor people, and Asian/African immigrants are on average poorer than Norwegians/Europeans/Americans.

@Leif Roar: thanks for the link, which led me to the Statistics Bureau
@Information Analyst: thanks for the high five.
__________________
"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf

"I think accuracy is important" - Vixen
ddt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2011, 03:34 PM   #20
Leif Roar
Master Poster
 
Leif Roar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,795
Originally Posted by ddt View Post
So yes, there's a big over-representation of rapes by immigrants from Africa and Asia. Now we could try to have a meaningful discussion why that is the case.
It's always dangerous to do "back-seat psychology", but the largest contingent of immigrants from Africa in Norway are refugees from Somalia. They're recent arrivals (last thirteen years, with half having arrived in the last five years), from a background where violence has been normalised and which for many of them have been traumatic.
__________________
"Our feature on cloud seeding (16 Apr, p40) should have started with the words 'Cannons blazed'. No clergy were set on fire in China's rainmaking experiment." -- New Scientist, 7th May 2005
Leif Roar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2011, 03:37 PM   #21
Information Analyst
Penultimate Amazing
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 10,099
Ah! So that's how you properly format a table in this forum - that'll be useful in future....

Last edited by Information Analyst; 1st July 2011 at 03:38 PM.
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd July 2011, 03:59 AM   #22
Ryokan
Insert something funny here
 
Ryokan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Norway
Posts: 10,816
Originally Posted by ddt View Post
(Question: what does "asiatisk utseende" mean in Norwegian? Looking like a Chinese/Japanese or like an Indian/Pakistani?)
It means East Asian.
Ryokan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2011, 03:06 AM   #23
leftysergeant
Penultimate Amazing
 
leftysergeant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,863
Originally Posted by ddt View Post
The youtube poster seems to have a very heavy axe to grind too, though - check out his youtube channel or his blogspot domain - so I'm not inclined to believe his claims without independent corroboration either.
He seems to be a great fan of that torture monkey Allan West.

I think what we have here is another attempt to justify violence against Muslims, perhaps a new Crusade.
__________________
No civilization ever collapsed because the poor had too much to eat.
leftysergeant is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th July 2011, 12:33 AM   #24
eirik
Muse
 
eirik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 729
So the numbers confirm most rapists are indeed from non-western cultures. But according to the report, the foreign cultures is not the causal factor. Poverty is.

Frankly - I don't care IF poverty is the causal factor. The fact is that immigration from these countries presents problems that endanger the general population. And: The fact is that Norway has one of the most generous social benefits in the world, and legal immigrants are entitled from day 1, so relative to other countries no one really is poore.

But from what I can see, the poverty explanation is not very well founded. In Stavanger, Norway , they started an information project targeting immigrants, men from the cultures mentioned. Among other things, the police were actively running systematic ID checks of these persons in the street at night. The assault rape charges reports dropped from 29 (2009), all from non western cultures, to 0 (2010). http://www.aftenbladet.no/lokalt/sta...tml?xtor=RSS-2

My concern is that poverty is the default PC explanation for every problem everywhere according to people of a left leaning political viewpoint (dominant in Norway). This means that even assault rapes and rapes overall can be blamed on the capitalists (our selves), for not doing enough for immigrants. Respectfully: This is BS. Even global terror was sought explained by poverty, in spite of overwhelming evidence of the contrary. Now - these people have come up with a solution for this dissonance. Namely that terror as a problem does not exist.

They have tried to rid themselves of the dissonance for rape numbers for years, stating that assault rape is just a small insignificant fraction of overall rapes, and that it is racist cherry picking to bring this up, because ethnic Norwegians stands for the most rapes anyway. Well, now the numbers show differently also for rape stats overall. If this was recognized earlier, something could have been done with the problem. And I doubt the solution is giving them better benefits.
__________________
"I do not believe in the immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern without any superhuman authority behind it." -Albert Einstein
eirik is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th July 2011, 03:21 AM   #25
Eddie Dane
Philosopher
 
Eddie Dane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,681
I've looked into the claim before, it always led me to an echo chamber of ultra-right anti-immigrant websites.

Nice to see some real numbers for a change.
__________________
Death to Videodrome! Long live the new flesh!
Eddie Dane is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th July 2011, 12:38 AM   #26
Skeptic
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 18,312
Seems like the usual logical mistake, namely, "all rapists are Muslims" (of a specific kind of rape solved in a specific place) transformed into "all Muslims are rapists".
Skeptic is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th July 2011, 04:10 AM   #27
Stylesjl
Thinker
 
Stylesjl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 226
I guess boyntonstu fell for the 'Big Lie', he believed a lie so colossal because he didn't believe that anyone would have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously
Stylesjl is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th July 2011, 10:02 AM   #28
Ausmerican
Illuminator
 
Ausmerican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,490
Originally Posted by Skeptic View Post
Seems like the usual logical mistake, namely, "all rapists are Muslims" (of a specific kind of rape solved in a specific place) transformed into "all Muslims are rapists".
No. It wasnt transformed into the second and it wasnt even the first.
__________________
Everyone must believe in something. I believe I'll go canoeing. Henry David Thoreau
Ausmerican is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th July 2011, 11:15 AM   #29
Ryokan
Insert something funny here
 
Ryokan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Norway
Posts: 10,816
Originally Posted by eirik View Post
So the numbers confirm most rapists are indeed from non-western cultures.
No. They're not.
Ryokan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th July 2011, 07:48 PM   #30
Jekyll's Guest
Master Poster
 
Jekyll's Guest's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,207
But, but...he wrote it in really large red text!

I just don't know what to believe anymore.
Jekyll's Guest is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th July 2011, 08:11 PM   #31
DC
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,064
Well one would hope that the Terror atack by the crazy wannabetemplar would have made those that helped him to keep up his fantasy reality and conspiracy theories, a bit more carefull with false claims.

Not so Pamela Geller


2011: Norway: ALL Rapes In Past 5 Years Committed By Muslims

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/a...elis-good.html

a misstake? i dont think so, she knows the claim is wrong.

http://www.xydo.com/toolbar/21089749...ern_immigrants
DC is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th July 2011, 12:48 AM   #32
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 28,964
Originally Posted by boyntonstu View Post
"Fjordman"? Hey, I think I read something about that guy recently.
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th July 2011, 01:13 AM   #33
Ryokan
Insert something funny here
 
Ryokan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Norway
Posts: 10,816
Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
"Fjordman"? Hey, I think I read something about that guy recently.


All bombers and spree killers in Norway follow Christ.
Ryokan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th July 2011, 03:21 AM   #34
linusrichard
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,710
Even if true, this wouldn't say anything remarkable about Muslims. It would only say something remarkable about non-Muslim Norwegians.
__________________
"We are talking about an old ladies genitals after all." - ponderingturtle
linusrichard is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:44 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.