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Snide · 7th July 2011, 01:06 PM

Antitax Extremism in Minnesota

There will no doubt be those here who will identify the source and thus dismiss this out of hand. But I think it is spot on. I am hopeful, however, that the tide of public opinion is turning, and people are not going to stand by the stubborn refusal to raise any taxes, both in Minnesota and at a National level, and continue to fall for the "class warfare" canard.

From the link:

Quote:

Gov. Mark Dayton, a Democrat, campaigned for office last year promising to raise taxes on high earners, so it was no surprise when he proposed a tax increase on families making more than $150,000 a year to help close a $5 billion budget gap. In negotiations with the Republican majority in the Legislature, he compromised and reduced the increase to those making $1 million or more, but Republicans are refusing to consider any income tax increase.

I orginally thought Dayton's idea of "the rich" was too low. But he has compromised quite a bit, and I am on board now. The Republicans, however, are (so far) not budgin. Meanwhile, Tim Pawlenty blames Dayton (and of course balmes the Dems in the state for the last time the state shut down, on his watch). A state senator I heard on a local right wing radio show absolutely blasted Dayton, emphatically stating that the Republicans have done all they could to keep giving and giving, and that Dayton is no leader, and must be removed from office for his incompetency.

He was actually making a pretty believable case, until he said (as well as I can recall), "But all Dayton wants to do is raise taxes, raise taxes." A flat-out lie and total deception.

But again, I'm hopeful the voting public is falling for it less and less.

Kopji · 7th July 2011, 07:10 PM

Some guy named Norquist is making a list and checking it twice. Title is something like "Republicans who raise taxes". I guess it has everyone scared silly.

It is us who give the unelected people power. Not quite sure what to do except not vote for people who bow to them.

So how is the shutdown going?

Darth Rotor · 7th July 2011, 07:29 PM

Hmmm, thread title had me guessing Jesse Ventura hadn't filed in a few years.

Interesting story there, Snide, will bear watching.

JudeBrando · 7th July 2011, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by Snide

But I think it is spot on. I am hopeful, however, that the tide of public opinion is turning, and people are not going to stand by the stubborn refusal to raise any taxes, both in Minnesota and at a National level, and continue to fall for the "class warfare" canard.

Are you kidding?

You say people refusing to raise people's taxes is "antitax extremism"?! This is Orwellian.

To now say such an absurdity can only be Leftist Propaganda. Literally.

So... insisting that the government not continue to confiscate an ever-increasing portion of the earnings of the citizens is "Right-wing extremist"?

What would be an example of a Left-wing extremist counter-position?

How much more should the government take from you?

Obviously, you only care about others, the less fortunate, so how much do you already donate, in addition to whatever you are already taxed, to the causes that you apparently want government to steal from Peter for to bribe Paul with to get his vote? Paul, is that you? Hi Paul.

Snide · 7th July 2011, 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by JudeBrando

Are you kidding?

Nope.

Quote:

You say refusing to raise taxes is "antitax extremism."

Nope. I didn't say that. Regardless, you are misrepresenting the position, in exactly the same way the state senator I mentioned was.

I better stop here and give you a chance to catch up.

JudeBrando · 7th July 2011, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by Snide

Nope.

Nope. I didn't say that. Regardless, you are misrepresenting the position, in exactly the same way the state senator I mentioned was.

I better stop here and give you a chance to catch up.

Originally Posted by Snide

..Antitax Extremism in Minnesota.. But I think it is spot on.. the stubborn refusal to raise any taxes...

?

Catch me up then, please.

Snide · 7th July 2011, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by JudeBrando

?

Catch me up then, please.

"Antitax Extremism in Minnesota" = title of the article.

ETA: Further, neither I nor the author(s) said, as you claim, "You say people refusing to raise people's taxes is "antitax extremism"?!" This is either a blatant misrepresentation of the point of the article, or just a severe lack of understanding.

"Spot on" = my analysis of the text of the article. I will amend that somewhat, and say "mostly."

"The stubborn refusal to raise any taxes" = what's happening, which I hope the voters, who elected a governor who ran on a "tax the rich" theme (which, I've already admitted, I did not agree with as it was presented originally), reject.

That should help.

JudeBrando · 7th July 2011, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Snide

"Antitax Extremism in Minnesota" = title of the article.

ETA: Further, neither I nor the author(s) said, as you claim, "You say people refusing to raise people's taxes is "antitax extremism"?!" This is either a blatant misrepresentation of the point of the article, or just a severe lack of understanding.

"Spot on" = my analysis of the text of the article. I will amend that somewhat, and say "mostly."

"The stubborn refusal to raise any taxes" = what's happening, which I hope the voters, who elected a governor who ran on a "tax the rich" theme (which, I've already admitted, I did not agree with as it was presented originally), reject.

That should help.

This place is an insane asylum.

Yes, exactly as I said. Are you seriously this ridiculously stubborn? Yes, the article says that "the stubborn refusal to raise any taxes" is "antitax extremism" and you said that you find the article "spot on."

You did not disagree because you could not disagree with your own words
even though you didn't like the way I showed them to you.

I hope at least that you see it a little differently now.

JudeBrando · 7th July 2011, 09:47 PM

Snide,

Originally Posted by JudeBrando

How much more should the government take from you?

Obviously, you only care about others, the less fortunate, so how much do you already donate, in addition to whatever you are already taxed, to the causes that you apparently want government to steal from Peter for to bribe Paul with to get his vote? Paul, is that you? Hi Paul.

geni · 7th July 2011, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by JudeBrando

Are you kidding?

You say people refusing to raise people's taxes is "antitax extremism"?! This is Orwellian.

Not at all. There is context behind that headline.

Quote:

To now say such an absurdity can only be Leftist Propaganda. Literally.

You lack imagination. For example Anarchist are by most standards considered extremists and are also anti tax.

Quote:

So... insisting that the government not continue to confiscate an ever-increasing portion of the earnings of the citizens is "Right-wing extremist"?

Not at all but since the proposed bill doesn't contain an escalator clause that isn't what is being discussed.

Trakar · 7th July 2011, 10:29 PM

I don't think that the government should ever take more than 90% of the income that an individual earns over $1,000,000 a year(2011 dollars), or less than 90% of assets over $1,000,000 when a person dies. But that's me, and while I like tides that raise ALL boats, I don't think anything good comes from creating senses of individual entitlement and bespoilment. Personal responsibility and making one's own way in the world are progressive values that Republicans seem to have lost in their modern, pampered, privileged, entitled to special treatment and consideration, "conservative" perspective of the world.

JudeBrando · 7th July 2011, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by TShaitanaku

Personal responsibility and making one's own way in the world are progressive values that Republicans seem to have lost...

The welfare state is progressive. It most certainly is not about personal responsibility and making one's own way.

Quote:

...in their modern, pampered, privileged, entitled to special treatment and consideration, "conservative" perspective of the world.

Are the Democrats not pampered, priveleged, and entitled to special treatment and consideration in their liberal progressive perspective of the world?

Stop spouting such inane garbage which serves no purpose beyond blind partisan animus.

I've been the little guy for a very long time. What makes you think the Dems give a good sky-daddy damn about me?

Limousine liberals condemning Tea Party workingmen stiffs as greedy rich.

Kopji · 7th July 2011, 10:46 PM

I really hope Minnesota can work it all out.

Imagine my surprise today when I discovered that the supposedly anti-tax tea partiers in Arizona actually raised our taxes. They found an old law that democrats passed a while back but was not being enforced. Arizona can now collect taxes from Internet sales out of state. They fixed that. We can now volunteer the information or be tax dodgers.

Maybe Minnesota has some old ignored laws that can be modified by Republicans that way. Sounds like a win-win: raise taxes and blame democrats for it.

linky
http://www.azdailysun.com/news/local...bacec5087.html

Trakar · 7th July 2011, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by JudeBrando

The welfare state is progressive. It most certainly is not about personal responsibility and making one's own way.

Are the Democrats not pampered, priveleged, and entitled to special treatment and consideration in their liberal progressive perspective of the world?

Stop spouting such inane garbage which serves no purpose beyond blind partisan animus.

I've been the little guy for a very long time. What makes you think the Dems give a good sky-daddy damn about me?

Limousine liberals condemning Tea Party workingmen stiffs as greedy rich.

I am a progressive Republican in the tradition and heritage of Teddy Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, and Eisenhower You talking about the differences between corporatist Democrats and modern neoliberal "conservative" Republicans sounds more like an interparty squabblefest of spoiled drama queens who are just both so misunderstood by their electorate, that I have little time or desire to try and sort out what delusory differences you perceive as relevent.

Regnad Kcin · 8th July 2011, 05:06 AM

Originally Posted by JudeBrando

So... insisting that the government not continue to confiscate an ever-increasing portion of the earnings of the citizens is "Right-wing extremist"?

"Ever-increasing?" Tax rates that are significantly lower today than in years and decades past?

And yet you gallop around on your high horse about others' Orwellian language.

Snide · 8th July 2011, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by JudeBrando

Snide,

The exact amount? Beats me.

Snide · 8th July 2011, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by geni

Not at all. There is context behind that headline.

This.

Snide · 8th July 2011, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by JudeBrando

Yes, the article says that "the stubborn refusal to raise any taxes" is "antitax extremism" and you said that you find the article "spot on."

You did not disagree because you could not disagree with your own words
even though you didn't like the way I showed them to you.

No, the article does not say what you say it says. Try ctrl-F and see for yourself. It does use the term "antitax radicalism," which one could argue is a bit hyperbolic. But it does so with much more context than you choose to recognize or give consideration to.

"Stubborn refusal" were my words in explaining how I feel about the situation, and notice that I did not accompany them with any form of "extremist" or "radical." I am upset at the GOP's stubborn refusal in the context of all that has transpired. I hope that more voters become so as well.

Leif Roar · 8th July 2011, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by JudeBrando

The welfare state is progressive. It most certainly is not about personal responsibility and making one's own way.

No, but then again neither is the current alternative. Were you aware that there is less social mobility in USA than in Europe?

Magyar · 8th July 2011, 08:29 AM

Another on point article about this topic

This carried interest loophole benefits managers of financial partnerships such as hedge funds, private equity funds, venture capital funds and real estate funds — who are among the highest-paid people in the world. John Paulson, a hedge fund manager in New York City, made $4.9 billion last year, top of the chart for hedge fund managers, according to AR Magazine, which follows hedge funds. That’s equivalent to the average per capita income of 184,000 Americans, according to my back-of-envelope calculations based on Census Bureau figures.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/07/op...07kristof.html

So under the BS repugnican continues Pi** down theory people who make 4.9 BILLION dollars a year MUST be protected from having to sacrifice such loopholes even if
the elderly starve ( That's no exaggeration since there is a very large population of the elderly right now who daily make decisions about getting food vs their prescriptions) and the country in the first time in history defaults on it's obligations.

You know this is getting more and more like the rats on a sinking ship. The wealthy and the republicans dont care a rats ass about this country, they're on a rape and pillage mission before the house burns down and the surfs will just have to fend for themsleves.

Beerina · 8th July 2011, 05:48 PM

Just keep yammering about how mild restraints on taxes and spending are "extremism".

Just keep it up until the next election. I heartily encourage you guys to be loud and proud about it. Keep up the editorials.

Don't be shy about it. Say it, brother! Say it!

Teemu · 8th July 2011, 07:54 PM

Minnesota's taxes are already extreme, both when compared to national level, and especially when compared to other than North East or West coast. Highest income tax rate is already 7.85%, 9th highest nationally, kicking in at an income level of $74,780. Corporate tax is 9.8%, 3rd highest nationally.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/37.html

Snide · 10th July 2011, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by Beerina

Just keep yammering about how mild restraints on taxes and spending are "extremism".

Mild restraints are certainly not extremism. The inference that this is wholly what the author is calling "extremism," however, is grossly inaccurate.

Quote:

Just keep it up until the next election. I heartily encourage you guys to be loud and proud about it. Keep up the editorials.

Don't be shy about it. Say it, brother! Say it!

People do need to be careful how they message things, else their plans may backfire. This is why, similarly, liberals want Bachmann, for example, to keep talking.

Snide · 10th July 2011, 06:39 AM

Originally Posted by Teemu

Minnesota's taxes are already extreme, both when compared to national level, and especially when compared to other than North East or West coast. Highest income tax rate is already 7.85%, 9th highest nationally, kicking in at an income level of $74,780. Corporate tax is 9.8%, 3rd highest nationally.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/37.html

Depends on how one defines "extreme," I guess, especially if you look deeper into the numbers. Out of curiosity, I'll look at my recent returns when I get home (on a road trip), to see what my actual percentage has turned out to be. Thanks for the reply.

MarkCorrigan · 10th July 2011, 08:26 AM

People still expect Beerina and JudeBrando to be intellectually honest when it comes to things like taxation?

Talk about optimism.

7th July 2011, 01:06 PM	#1
Snide Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Twin Cities Posts: 3,187	N.Y. Times Editorial, "Antitax Extremism in Minnesota" Antitax Extremism in Minnesota There will no doubt be those here who will identify the source and thus dismiss this out of hand. But I think it is spot on. I am hopeful, however, that the tide of public opinion is turning, and people are not going to stand by the stubborn refusal to raise any taxes, both in Minnesota and at a National level, and continue to fall for the "class warfare" canard. From the link: Quote: Gov. Mark Dayton, a Democrat, campaigned for office last year promising to raise taxes on high earners, so it was no surprise when he proposed a tax increase on families making more than $150,000 a year to help close a $5 billion budget gap. In negotiations with the Republican majority in the Legislature, he compromised and reduced the increase to those making $1 million or more, but Republicans are refusing to consider any income tax increase. I orginally thought Dayton's idea of "the rich" was too low. But he has compromised quite a bit, and I am on board now. The Republicans, however, are (so far) not budgin. Meanwhile, Tim Pawlenty blames Dayton (and of course balmes the Dems in the state for the last time the state shut down, on his watch). A state senator I heard on a local right wing radio show absolutely blasted Dayton, emphatically stating that the Republicans have done all they could to keep giving and giving, and that Dayton is no leader, and must be removed from office for his incompetency. He was actually making a pretty believable case, until he said (as well as I can recall), "But all Dayton wants to do is raise taxes, raise taxes." A flat-out lie and total deception. But again, I'm hopeful the voting public is falling for it less and less.

7th July 2011, 07:29 PM	#3
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,371	Hmmm, thread title had me guessing Jesse Ventura hadn't filed in a few years. Interesting story there, Snide, will bear watching.
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

7th July 2011, 07:47 PM	#4
JudeBrando Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,701	Originally Posted by Snide But I think it is spot on. I am hopeful, however, that the tide of public opinion is turning, and people are not going to stand by the stubborn refusal to raise any taxes, both in Minnesota and at a National level, and continue to fall for the "class warfare" canard. Are you kidding? You say people refusing to raise people's taxes is "antitax extremism"?! This is Orwellian. To now say such an absurdity can only be Leftist Propaganda. Literally. So... insisting that the government not continue to confiscate an ever-increasing portion of the earnings of the citizens is "Right-wing extremist"? What would be an example of a Left-wing extremist counter-position? How much more should the government take from you? Obviously, you only care about others, the less fortunate, so how much do you already donate, in addition to whatever you are already taxed, to the causes that you apparently want government to steal from Peter for to bribe Paul with to get his vote? Paul, is that you? Hi Paul.
JudeBrando Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,701	Last edited by JudeBrando; 7th July 2011 at 07:57 PM.

7th July 2011, 07:54 PM	#5
Snide Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Twin Cities Posts: 3,187	Originally Posted by JudeBrando Are you kidding? Nope. Quote: You say refusing to raise taxes is "antitax extremism." Nope. I didn't say that. Regardless, you are misrepresenting the position, in exactly the same way the state senator I mentioned was. I better stop here and give you a chance to catch up.
	Last edited by Snide; 7th July 2011 at 07:56 PM. Reason: clarity

7th July 2011, 08:04 PM	#6
JudeBrando Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,701	Originally Posted by Snide Nope. Nope. I didn't say that. Regardless, you are misrepresenting the position, in exactly the same way the state senator I mentioned was. I better stop here and give you a chance to catch up. Originally Posted by Snide ..Antitax Extremism in Minnesota.. But I think it is spot on.. the stubborn refusal to raise any taxes... ? Catch me up then, please.
JudeBrando Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,701

7th July 2011, 07:10 PM	#2
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,710	Some guy named Norquist is making a list and checking it twice. Title is something like "Republicans who raise taxes". I guess it has everyone scared silly. It is us who give the unelected people power. Not quite sure what to do except not vote for people who bow to them. So how is the shutdown going?

7th July 2011, 08:08 PM	#7
Snide Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Twin Cities Posts: 3,187	Originally Posted by JudeBrando ? Catch me up then, please. "Antitax Extremism in Minnesota" = title of the article. ETA: Further, neither I nor the author(s) said, as you claim, "You say people refusing to raise people's taxes is "antitax extremism"?!" This is either a blatant misrepresentation of the point of the article, or just a severe lack of understanding. "Spot on" = my analysis of the text of the article. I will amend that somewhat, and say "mostly." "The stubborn refusal to raise any taxes" = what's happening, which I hope the voters, who elected a governor who ran on a "tax the rich" theme (which, I've already admitted, I did not agree with as it was presented originally), reject. That should help.
	Last edited by Snide; 7th July 2011 at 08:20 PM. Reason: didn't finish

7th July 2011, 09:45 PM	#8
JudeBrando Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,701	Originally Posted by Snide "Antitax Extremism in Minnesota" = title of the article. ETA: Further, neither I nor the author(s) said, as you claim, "You say people refusing to raise people's taxes is "antitax extremism"?!" This is either a blatant misrepresentation of the point of the article, or just a severe lack of understanding. "Spot on" = my analysis of the text of the article. I will amend that somewhat, and say "mostly." *"The stubborn refusal to raise any* taxes"** = what's happening, which I hope the voters, who elected a governor who ran on a "tax the rich" theme (which, I've already admitted, I did not agree with as it was presented originally), reject. That should help. This place is an insane asylum. Yes, exactly as I said. Are you seriously this ridiculously stubborn? Yes, the article says that "the stubborn refusal to raise any taxes" is "antitax extremism" and you said that you find the article "spot on." You did not disagree because you could not disagree with your own words even though you didn't like the way I showed them to you. I hope at least that you see it a little differently now.
JudeBrando Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,701

7th July 2011, 09:47 PM	#9
JudeBrando Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,701	Snide, Originally Posted by JudeBrando How much more should the government take from you? Obviously, you only care about others, the less fortunate, so how much do you already donate, in addition to whatever you are already taxed, to the causes that you apparently want government to steal from Peter for to bribe Paul with to get his vote? Paul, is that you? Hi Paul.
JudeBrando Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,701

7th July 2011, 10:00 PM	#10
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,640	Originally Posted by JudeBrando Are you kidding? You say people refusing to raise people's taxes is "antitax extremism"?! This is Orwellian. Not at all. There is context behind that headline. Quote: To now say such an absurdity can only be Leftist Propaganda. Literally. You lack imagination. For example Anarchist are by most standards considered extremists and are also anti tax. Quote: So... insisting that the government not continue to confiscate an ever-increasing portion of the earnings of the citizens is "Right-wing extremist"? Not at all but since the proposed bill doesn't contain an escalator clause that isn't what is being discussed.

7th July 2011, 10:29 PM	#11
Trakar Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5,944	I don't think that the government should ever take more than 90% of the income that an individual earns over $1,000,000 a year(2011 dollars), or less than 90% of assets over $1,000,000 when a person dies. But that's me, and while I like tides that raise ALL boats, I don't think anything good comes from creating senses of individual entitlement and bespoilment. Personal responsibility and making one's own way in the world are progressive values that Republicans seem to have lost in their modern, pampered, privileged, entitled to special treatment and consideration, "conservative" perspective of the world.
Trakar Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5,944	__________________ Trakar AKA/formerly TShaitanaku "Dubitanda quippe ad inquisitionem venimus; inquirendo veritatem percipimus." (By doubting we come to inquiry, and through inquiry we perceive truth.) — Peter Abelard

7th July 2011, 10:41 PM	#12
JudeBrando Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,701	Originally Posted by TShaitanaku Personal responsibility and making one's own way in the world are progressive values that Republicans seem to have lost... The welfare state is progressive. It most certainly is not about personal responsibility and making one's own way. Quote: ...in their modern, pampered, privileged, entitled to special treatment and consideration, "conservative" perspective of the world. Are the Democrats not pampered, priveleged, and entitled to special treatment and consideration in their liberal progressive perspective of the world? Stop spouting such inane garbage which serves no purpose beyond blind partisan animus. I've been the little guy for a very long time. What makes you think the Dems give a good sky-daddy damn about me? Limousine liberals condemning Tea Party workingmen stiffs as greedy rich.
JudeBrando Banned Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,701	Last edited by JudeBrando; 7th July 2011 at 10:43 PM.

7th July 2011, 10:46 PM	#13
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,710	I really hope Minnesota can work it all out. Imagine my surprise today when I discovered that the supposedly anti-tax tea partiers in Arizona actually raised our taxes. They found an old law that democrats passed a while back but was not being enforced. Arizona can now collect taxes from Internet sales out of state. They fixed that. We can now volunteer the information or be tax dodgers. Maybe Minnesota has some old ignored laws that can be modified by Republicans that way. Sounds like a win-win: raise taxes and blame democrats for it. linky http://www.azdailysun.com/news/local...bacec5087.html
	Last edited by Kopji; 7th July 2011 at 10:53 PM. Reason: linky

7th July 2011, 11:24 PM	#14
Trakar Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5,944	Originally Posted by JudeBrando The welfare state is progressive. It most certainly is not about personal responsibility and making one's own way. Are the Democrats not pampered, priveleged, and entitled to special treatment and consideration in their liberal progressive perspective of the world? Stop spouting such inane garbage which serves no purpose beyond blind partisan animus. I've been the little guy for a very long time. What makes you think the Dems give a good sky-daddy damn about me? Limousine liberals condemning Tea Party workingmen stiffs as greedy rich. I am a progressive Republican in the tradition and heritage of Teddy Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, and Eisenhower You talking about the differences between corporatist Democrats and modern neoliberal "conservative" Republicans sounds more like an interparty squabblefest of spoiled drama queens who are just both so misunderstood by their electorate, that I have little time or desire to try and sort out what delusory differences you perceive as relevent.
Trakar Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5,944	__________________ Trakar AKA/formerly TShaitanaku "Dubitanda quippe ad inquisitionem venimus; inquirendo veritatem percipimus." (By doubting we come to inquiry, and through inquiry we perceive truth.) — Peter Abelard

8th July 2011, 05:06 AM	#15
Regnad Kcin Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The ol' Same place Posts: 6,273	Originally Posted by JudeBrando So... insisting that the government not continue to confiscate an ever-increasing portion of the earnings of the citizens is "Right-wing extremist"? "Ever-increasing?" Tax rates that are significantly lower today than in years and decades past? And yet you gallop around on your high horse about others' Orwellian language.
	__________________ My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.

8th July 2011, 06:51 AM	#16
Snide Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Twin Cities Posts: 3,187	Originally Posted by JudeBrando Snide, The exact amount? Beats me.

8th July 2011, 06:52 AM	#17
Snide Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Twin Cities Posts: 3,187	Originally Posted by geni Not at all. There is context behind that headline. This.

8th July 2011, 07:07 AM	#18
Snide Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Twin Cities Posts: 3,187	Originally Posted by JudeBrando Yes, the article says that "the stubborn refusal to raise any taxes" is "antitax extremism" and you said that you find the article "spot on." You did not disagree because you could not disagree with your own words even though you didn't like the way I showed them to you. No, the article does not say what you say it says. Try ctrl-F and see for yourself. It does use the term "antitax radicalism," which one could argue is a bit hyperbolic. But it does so with much more context than you choose to recognize or give consideration to. "Stubborn refusal" were my words in explaining how I feel about the situation, and notice that I did not accompany them with any form of "extremist" or "radical." I am upset at the GOP's stubborn refusal in the context of all that has transpired. I hope that more voters become so as well.

8th July 2011, 07:08 AM	#19
Leif Roar Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,800	Originally Posted by JudeBrando The welfare state is progressive. It most certainly is not about personal responsibility and making one's own way. No, but then again neither is the current alternative. Were you aware that there is less social mobility in USA than in Europe?
Leif Roar Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,800	__________________ "Our feature on cloud seeding (16 Apr, p40) should have started with the words 'Cannons blazed'. No clergy were set on fire in China's rainmaking experiment." -- New Scientist, 7th May 2005

8th July 2011, 08:29 AM	#20
Magyar Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: the edge of reason Posts: 1,564	Another on point article about this topic This carried interest loophole benefits managers of financial partnerships such as hedge funds, private equity funds, venture capital funds and real estate funds — who are among the highest-paid people in the world. John Paulson, a hedge fund manager in New York City, made $4.9 billion last year, top of the chart for hedge fund managers, according to AR Magazine, which follows hedge funds. That’s equivalent to the average per capita income of 184,000 Americans, according to my back-of-envelope calculations based on Census Bureau figures. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/07/op...07kristof.html So under the BS repugnican continues Pi** down theory people who make 4.9 BILLION dollars a year MUST be protected from having to sacrifice such loopholes even if the elderly starve ( That's no exaggeration since there is a very large population of the elderly right now who daily make decisions about getting food vs their prescriptions) and the country in the first time in history defaults on it's obligations. You know this is getting more and more like the rats on a sinking ship. The wealthy and the republicans dont care a rats ass about this country, they're on a rape and pillage mission before the house burns down and the surfs will just have to fend for themsleves.
	__________________ "There is no heresy or no philosophy which is so abhorrent to the church as a human being." James Joyce Due to recent cutbacks the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off.

8th July 2011, 05:48 PM	#21
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Just keep yammering about how mild restraints on taxes and spending are "extremism". Just keep it up until the next election. I heartily encourage you guys to be loud and proud about it. Keep up the editorials. Don't be shy about it. Say it, brother! Say it!
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

8th July 2011, 07:54 PM	#22
Teemu Scholar Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 115	Minnesota's taxes are already extreme, both when compared to national level, and especially when compared to other than North East or West coast. Highest income tax rate is already 7.85%, 9th highest nationally, kicking in at an income level of $74,780. Corporate tax is 9.8%, 3rd highest nationally. http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/37.html
Teemu Scholar Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 115

10th July 2011, 06:28 AM	#23
Snide Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Twin Cities Posts: 3,187	Originally Posted by Beerina Just keep yammering about how mild restraints on taxes and spending are "extremism". Mild restraints are certainly not extremism. The inference that this is wholly what the author is calling "extremism," however, is grossly inaccurate. Quote: Just keep it up until the next election. I heartily encourage you guys to be loud and proud about it. Keep up the editorials. Don't be shy about it. Say it, brother! Say it! People do need to be careful how they message things, else their plans may backfire. This is why, similarly, liberals want Bachmann, for example, to keep talking.
	Last edited by Snide; 10th July 2011 at 06:41 AM. Reason: clarification

10th July 2011, 06:39 AM	#24
Snide Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Twin Cities Posts: 3,187	Originally Posted by Teemu Minnesota's taxes are already extreme, both when compared to national level, and especially when compared to other than North East or West coast. Highest income tax rate is already 7.85%, 9th highest nationally, kicking in at an income level of $74,780. Corporate tax is 9.8%, 3rd highest nationally. http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/37.html Depends on how one defines "extreme," I guess, especially if you look deeper into the numbers. Out of curiosity, I'll look at my recent returns when I get home (on a road trip), to see what my actual percentage has turned out to be. Thanks for the reply.

10th July 2011, 08:26 AM	#25
MarkCorrigan Winter is Coming Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Middle of nowhere, UK. Posts: 7,167	People still expect Beerina and JudeBrando to be intellectually honest when it comes to things like taxation? Talk about optimism.
	__________________ Naturalism adjusts it's principles to fit with the observed data. It's a god of the facts world view. -joobz Now I lay me down to sleep, a bag of peanuts at my feet. If I should die before I wake, give them to my brother Jake.