Slow development in mobile smartphones?

Darat · 11th July 2011, 02:29 AM

Why has progress been so slow in smartphones?

I've only just moved from my 7 year old Sony P900 smartphone to an android phone, and yes the android phone is not as thick and is lighter (but doesn't last anywhere near as long on a single charge, seems that manufacturers are more interested in making the phone "slim" at the sake of a good sized battery) yet I've been quite underwhelmed by the new features.

Yes the "experience" is smoother and the new phone runs at quite a fast pace and things like resolution have increased but beyond GPS there is nothing in principle that I couldn't do with my old smartphone.

Why has development been so slow for smartphones?

Wudang · 11th July 2011, 02:40 AM

Possibly because Nokia was leading the way for a long time with Symbian then completely lost the plot. And as you identify more work seems to have gone into the visual aspects (with consequences for the battery) than functionality. I also remember an article some years back about how younger people were ignoring a lot of the advanced features and just using SMS thus reducing the market for many of these features. However I think that may have been a UK article and we had our own issues with 3G networks.

Soapy Sam · 11th July 2011, 03:01 AM

Is the rate determining step the phone, or the phone network?
Not much point selling a phone that can receive and display 3-D IMAX if nobody is able to broadcast it.

BenBurch · 11th July 2011, 09:35 AM

Form factor cannot change much as long as you need a touchscreen or a keyboard or both.

What we see with Apple and with Android is that they are concentrating on a PLATFORM, and allowing the marketplace to fill in the features, but in a restricted way ruled by agreements with the network providers. And that is the bottleneck for really innovative new services; The networks will not permit many things.

Policenaut · 11th July 2011, 10:11 AM

I think it has moved along quite a bit. Larger and better quality screens, multitouch, 4g internet (could your old phone stream netflix movies?), wireless tether multiple devices (8-10) to your phones internet connection, video chat with front facing cameras, high quality back facing cameras, augmented reality apps, video output (hdmi or dlna to wirelessly connect to your tv), dedicated appstores with just about any program you could think of, high quality games, and gps and navigation equal to standalone hardware. I don't know what phone you got or where you expect smartphones to be right now. What kind of services or features do you think are missing right now?

PGH · 11th July 2011, 10:17 AM

I just got my first smart phone and I loathe it.

The battery can run for about 40 minutes before it's depleted, depending on what you're doing. Decide to listen to a few songs on Pandora and it's more like 15 minutes. And charging it takes about half a day it seems. So I had to buy another charger for work so I'm not carrying one with me back and forth.

Then I realized I've got the phone plugged in to charge 70-80% of the time. Some mobile phone.

excaza · 11th July 2011, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by PGH

I just got my first smart phone and I loathe it.

The battery can run for about 40 minutes before it's depleted, depending on what you're doing. Decide to listen to a few songs on Pandora and it's more like 15 minutes. And charging it takes about half a day it seems. So I had to buy another charger for work so I'm not carrying one with me back and forth.

Then I realized I've got the phone plugged in to charge 70-80% of the time. Some mobile phone.

This is more likely an actual malfunction rather than a true representation of your device, what did you buy?

PGH · 11th July 2011, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by excaza

This is more likely an actual malfunction rather than a true representation of your device, what did you buy?

Well I do suspect/know that a large part of the problem is probably my own ineptitude. I'm going to see if Verizon offers classes on using this brand of phone.

It's a Vortex. Hey it was $40 after resigning with Verizon and I can't afford an iPhone! You take your mockery elsewhere, everyone reading this!

excaza · 11th July 2011, 10:29 AM

My intent was not to mock, just to point out that a 40 minute battery life is unacceptable for any device, even a smartphone. It could very well just be a faulty battery. Have you done any investigoogling to see if others are having a similar problem?

Sent from my iPhone

PGH · 11th July 2011, 10:33 AM

Oh I never thought you were mocking. Just pre-emptively lashing out at those who would laugh at my little Vortex, probably from behind their clean, white iPhones... racists.

What I tried to do was download an "apps killer" thinking that those (or something that's running) is what's killing my battery. But anytime I use the apps killer to kill apps those same apps came back less than a minute later.

"Apps" used to mean appetizers. And I'm about to trade this thing in for an order of cheesesticks anyway.

As a kid we had a phone on the wall. Sometimes the chord would get tangled. That was basically the only problem with it. I think I'm starting to miss that phone...

Wudang · 11th July 2011, 11:17 AM

Checked its spec

Talk Time Up to 450 min
Standby Time Up to 500 Hours

I'd say you have a duff battery.

dtugg · 11th July 2011, 02:01 PM

I can easily get my Android device to last for more than 24 hours, depending, of course, on usage.

I dunno about Verizon, but with Sprint, they will just give you a new battery if you go to the store and tell them it them it isn't holding charge well.

BenBurch · 11th July 2011, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by Wudang

Checked its spec

Talk Time Up to 450 min
Standby Time Up to 500 Hours

I'd say you have a duff battery.

Screen-on time is costly, though. One thing to do is to set the brightness down and allow screen lock to be short. Another is to turn off things you are not using, like WiFi when you are not in a home WiFi zone; It is searching for connections all the time.

theprestige · 11th July 2011, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

Why has progress been so slow in smartphones?

I've only just moved from my 7 year old Sony P900 smartphone to an android phone, and yes the android phone is not as thick and is lighter (but doesn't last anywhere near as long on a single charge, seems that manufacturers are more interested in making the phone "slim" at the sake of a good sized battery) yet I've been quite underwhelmed by the new features.

Yes the "experience" is smoother and the new phone runs at quite a fast pace and things like resolution have increased but beyond GPS there is nothing in principle that I couldn't do with my old smartphone.

Why has development been so slow for smartphones?

Other than smaller, lighter, faster, smoother, and GPS navigation, what advancements did you expect, and why?

ETA: I mean, it's not like the last decade has heralded a quantum leap forward in processor efficiency or battery life. Unless I've missed some very important press releases.

dtugg · 11th July 2011, 06:53 PM

You could not pay me to use some crappy Symbian phone from several years ago. Well, I guess you could but it would be expensive.

Ferguson · 11th July 2011, 07:49 PM

I'm not sure what features I'd want that aren't there. My phone has already replaced several other devices, it's my camera, my gaming system, my GPS, my primary web browser, and hulu/netflix has relegated my TV to the occasional DVD.

Cuddles · 12th July 2011, 03:15 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Other than smaller, lighter, faster, smoother, and GPS navigation, what advancements did you expect, and why?

Very much this. When it comes down to it, a smartphone is still just a telephone with a very small computer attached to it. There's only so much it can do. Calls, texts, internet, camera, mp3 player, video, touch screen, games, GPS, wifi, bluetooth. New phones can generally do all that better, or at least faster, but other than that, what else is there? There just doesn't seem much left to add to a pocket-sized mobile device that is both useful and actually capable of fitting on it.

The thing is, not everything always advances. Look at TV, for example. What people want in TV is a screen that sits in one place and shows moving pictures. The screen size and resolution has increased a bit while overall size and weight has gone down, but otherwise there has barely been any change in my entire life, because if you changed it too much it would no longer be useful as a TV for most people.

It's the same for phones. They need to be a certain size, weight, and so on, and so any changes are inherently limited. We've already crammed pretty much every feature we can think of into them, so any changes are now down to making the existing features better in some way. Maybe there are more things we could do with them, but obviously no-one's thought of them yet.

PGH · 12th July 2011, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

Screen-on time is costly, though. One thing to do is to set the brightness down and allow screen lock to be short. Another is to turn off things you are not using, like WiFi when you are not in a home WiFi zone; It is searching for connections all the time.

I think you just solved my problem. My thanks.

I know it's me, not the infernal device. But I still need to blame the infernal device!!

Darat · 12th July 2011, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Other than smaller, lighter, faster, smoother, and GPS navigation, what advancements did you expect, and why?

ETA: I mean, it's not like the last decade has heralded a quantum leap forward in processor efficiency or battery life. Unless I've missed some very important press releases.

Scrub the lighter bit - my old phone was fractionally lighter!

theprestige · 12th July 2011, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

Scrub the lighter bit - my old phone was fractionally lighter!

Your old phone probably had a much lower-resolution camera, too. If any camera at all. So other than all the obvious advancements you listed (including, if you like, a substantially improved performance-to-weight ratio), what advancements were you expecting, and why?

Roboramma · 12th July 2011, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Your old phone probably had a much lower-resolution camera, too. If any camera at all. So other than all the obvious advancements you listed (including, if you like, a substantially improved performance-to-weight ratio), what advancements were you expecting, and why?

I was thinking it should be able to diagnose all known diseases, scan for signs of life, etc.

Darat · 13th July 2011, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Your old phone probably had a much lower-resolution camera, too. If any camera at all. So other than all the obvious advancements you listed (including, if you like, a substantially improved performance-to-weight ratio), what advancements were you expecting, and why?

Why? Because things do tend to move on a bit over 7 years in the "hi tech" industries and if I knew what advances and developments I'd expected... I'd have started a company.

I think my expectations have been set too high because as an earlier adopter of smartphones (the P900 was not my first) and experiencing the speed of advances in just those first few years I'd expected that the rate of advance would have remained the same.

I'll just have to accept that until the rest of you catch-up with the likes of us the rate of development and advances will remain sluggish since you don't know any better.....

Lothian · 13th July 2011, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Why? Because things do tend to move on a bit over 7 years in the "hi tech" industries and if I knew what advances and developments I'd expected... I'd have started a company.

I think my expectations have been set too high because as an earlier adopter of smartphones (the P900 was not my first) and experiencing the speed of advances in just those first few years I'd expected that the rate of advance would have remained the same.

I'll just have to accept that until the rest of you catch-up with the likes of us the rate of development and advances will remain sluggish since you don't know any better.....

I know very little about this so if I am talking crap (again) tell me. The 3G licenses were very expensive. We have been stuck for a long time (in electronic terms) with 3G so the licensees can recoup their costs. Otherwise 4G would have been released sooner and we would have seen the benefits before now.

Roboramma · 13th July 2011, 12:31 AM

So, which advances were you expecting again?

Lothian · 13th July 2011, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by Roboramma

So, which advances were you expecting again?

From my point of view streaming TV and an app which tells me where I have left my keys.

Ausmerican · 13th July 2011, 12:43 AM

Having recently gotten an Android (HTC Incredible2) I am quite impressed. 1gig processor, 32gig of memory was desktop PC material not too long ago.
8mp camera, HD videocamera, front camera for skype.
Apps that can scan a doc via the camera and turn it into a .pdf, scan via images taken from the camera (of paintings, barcodes, etc) to find data via image matching online, heart rate monitor through the camera that is surprisingly accurate, 48 function scientific calculator, even a tunable guitar, piano, and drumkit.

Actually looking at the timeframe mentioned in the OP, 7 years, this phone outperforms my desktop from 7 years ago in every respect. Plus it makes phonecalls they tell me.

Darat · 13th July 2011, 01:03 AM

Originally Posted by Lothian

I know very little about this so if I am talking crap (again) tell me. The 3G licenses were very expensive. We have been stuck for a long time (in electronic terms) with 3G so the licensees can recoup their costs. Otherwise 4G would have been released sooner and we would have seen the benefits before now.

I thought the issue with 4G was that TV hasn't yet all gone digital?

Fishstick · 13th July 2011, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by Lothian

From my point of view streaming TV and an app which tells me where I have left my keys.

The firs tis possible with Hulu and netflix apps.

I'd be surprised if the latter hasn't already been done in some way. I would think having a bluetooth / IR keychain that beeps if a phone app 'calls it' wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility?

Darat · 13th July 2011, 01:05 AM

Originally Posted by Ausmerican

Having recently gotten an Android (HTC Incredible2) I am quite impressed. 1gig processor, 32gig of memory was desktop PC material not too long ago.
8mp camera, HD videocamera, front camera for skype.
Apps that can scan a doc via the camera and turn it into a .pdf, scan via images taken from the camera (of paintings, barcodes, etc) to find data via image matching online, heart rate monitor through the camera that is surprisingly accurate, 48 function scientific calculator, even a tunable guitar, piano, and drumkit.

Actually looking at the timeframe mentioned in the OP, 7 years, this phone outperforms my desktop from 7 years ago in every respect. Plus it makes phonecalls they tell me.

Yeah I've just found that feature on mine, must be one of those easter egg things that programmers like to sneak in.

Darat · 13th July 2011, 02:08 AM

I was looking for old references and found this link: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=3330 with a photo of the XDA IIs that was released in 2004.

Made me chuckle to think of the current Apple v Samsung spats over looks of phones and form factor.

As I said earlier my criticism is not that what they do has got better/faster/smoother but that really apart from the addition of GPS there doesn't seem to have been any great original innovation (most of the development that there has been is accounted for by Moore's and similar laws.).

As for asking me what I expected, that rather misses the point - innovations tend to only be obvious with hindsight!

Cuddles · 13th July 2011, 04:16 AM

Originally Posted by Lothian

Otherwise 4G would have been released sooner and we would have seen the benefits before now.

No we wouldn't. The issue with 4G is that it's simply not possible with current technology. There are a couple of things being advertised as 4G but they don't come anywhere near the actual 4G standard, they're just "a bit better than 3G and you can't legally stop us calling it 4G".

Originally Posted by Darat

As for asking me what I expected, that rather misses the point - innovations tend to only be obvious with hindsight!

That was part of my point in my last post - you don't know what advances there should have been. I don't know what advances there should have been. In fact, it turns out no-one knows what advances there should have been. Which is why, aside from the major improvements to all the things that were already there, there haven't been any significant additions. It's simply that people have run out of obvious things to add, and no-one has come up with any non-obvious ideas yet.

Quote:

Why? Because things do tend to move on a bit over 7 years in the "hi tech" industries

But they have moved on. As already noted, phones are faster, smaller, lighter, more powerful, have better screens, better (well, more technically advanced) interfaces, better cameras, GPS, compasses, and can do a huge amount more via apps that make use of the various bits of improved hardware.

The question isn't why you'd expect things to move on, because obviously they have. The question is why you expect things to have moved on any more, or in different ways, than they actually have?

Darat · 13th July 2011, 04:29 AM

Originally Posted by Cuddles

N...snip...

The question isn't why you'd expect things to move on, because obviously they have. The question is why you expect things to have moved on any more, or in different ways, than they actually have?

As I said it's because pretty much all the features of a modern smartphone where pretty much in place at least 7 years ago.

Ethan Thane Athen · 13th July 2011, 04:53 AM

OK, I'll help Darat out here. What I would have expected to happen now (and frustratingly the technology actually exists to do it) is that smart phones would have got over the two things that actually hold them back from truly replacing other devices (PC, TV etc) ie maintain the same portable form factor but full (or near full) size screen and keyboard.*

I saw 'roll out' flexible screens that could be built in to phones several years ago (similarly I've seen minitiarised projector technology - though I suspect it would be heavy on the battery). I've also seen both 'rollable' and projected (very cool) keyboards.

The smart phone is now as powerful as PCs of a few years ago but is still too limited by its HCI.

Anyway, that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I can come up with more....

*Before anybody points it out, yes they would still need their 'normal' screen and keyboard for use when truly 'on the move'. I don't see that as a problem.

Fishstick · 13th July 2011, 04:55 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

As I said it's because pretty much all the features of a modern smartphone where pretty much in place at least 7 years ago.

But heavier, clunkier, and relatively more expensive, which is exactly what Cuddle said. A P900 also didnd't have a built-in GPS or gyroscope, had less memory capacity and a lower res screen.

I don't know what other type of advances you'd expect?

excaza · 13th July 2011, 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen

(and frustratingly the technology actually exists to do it)

There is a difference between technology existing and technology being commercially viable.

excaza · 13th July 2011, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

As I said it's because pretty much all the features of a modern smartphone where pretty much in place at least 7 years ago.

By that same token, the features of a modern television were pretty much in place 60 years ago. Sure, they changed a few connectors around, crammed in more pixels, made them thinner, and made them refresh faster, but it's still just an image on a screen.

Quote:

As for asking me what I expected, that rather misses the point - innovations tend to only be obvious with hindsight!

Well, you're obviously expecting something, else you wouldn't have the notion that advances have been slow.

Darat · 13th July 2011, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by excaza

By that same token, the features of a modern television were pretty much in place 60 years ago. Sure, they changed a few connectors around, crammed in more pixels, made them thinner, and made them refresh faster, but it's still just an image on a screen.

Nah huge progress, at one time we only had 2 channels of crap - now've we've got thousands...

Originally Posted by excaza

Well, you're obviously expecting something, else you wouldn't have the notion that advances have been slow.

You are right I was expecting something!

excaza · 13th July 2011, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Nah huge progress, at one time we only had 2 channels of crap - now've we've got thousands...

Not sure if serious...

Quote:

You are right I was expecting something!

Why? What do you feel hasn't met your expectations? What do you feel should have improved faster?

WildCat · 13th July 2011, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

Why? Because things do tend to move on a bit over 7 years in the "hi tech" industries and if I knew what advances and developments I'd expected... I'd have started a company.

And instantly sued out of busness by Apple, Samsung, et al for patent violations, real or imagined.

Frankly, I'm amazed there's any innovation at all wrt smart phones given the byzantine and outdated patent system we have.

WildCat · 13th July 2011, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

I thought the issue with 4G was that TV hasn't yet all gone digital?

4G isn't even a real standard, it's a marketing tool.

And TVs have been all-digital for several years now. Analog signal isn't even broadcast any more in the US.

11th July 2011, 02:29 AM	#1
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,803	Slow development in mobile smartphones? Why has progress been so slow in smartphones? I've only just moved from my 7 year old Sony P900 smartphone to an android phone, and yes the android phone is not as thick and is lighter (but doesn't last anywhere near as long on a single charge, seems that manufacturers are more interested in making the phone "slim" at the sake of a good sized battery) yet I've been quite underwhelmed by the new features. Yes the "experience" is smoother and the new phone runs at quite a fast pace and things like resolution have increased but beyond GPS there is nothing in principle that I couldn't do with my old smartphone. Why has development been so slow for smartphones?
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008 Last edited by Darat; 11th July 2011 at 02:30 AM. Reason: Added link

11th July 2011, 02:40 AM	#2
Wudang BOFH Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sheffield Posts: 8,247	Possibly because Nokia was leading the way for a long time with Symbian then completely lost the plot. And as you identify more work seems to have gone into the visual aspects (with consequences for the battery) than functionality. I also remember an article some years back about how younger people were ignoring a lot of the advanced features and just using SMS thus reducing the market for many of these features. However I think that may have been a UK article and we had our own issues with 3G networks.
	__________________ Aphorism: Subjects most likely to be declared inappropriate for humor are the ones most in need of it. -epepke

11th July 2011, 03:01 AM	#3
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	Is the rate determining step the phone, or the phone network? Not much point selling a phone that can receive and display 3-D IMAX if nobody is able to broadcast it.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

11th July 2011, 09:35 AM	#4
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,219	Form factor cannot change much as long as you need a touchscreen or a keyboard or both. What we see with Apple and with Android is that they are concentrating on a PLATFORM, and allowing the marketplace to fill in the features, but in a restricted way ruled by agreements with the network providers. And that is the bottleneck for really innovative new services; The networks will not permit many things.
	__________________ Are you IN? Join the IN crowd now!

11th July 2011, 10:17 AM	#6
PGH Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,002	I just got my first smart phone and I loathe it. The battery can run for about 40 minutes before it's depleted, depending on what you're doing. Decide to listen to a few songs on Pandora and it's more like 15 minutes. And charging it takes about half a day it seems. So I had to buy another charger for work so I'm not carrying one with me back and forth. Then I realized I've got the phone plugged in to charge 70-80% of the time. Some mobile phone.
PGH Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,002

11th July 2011, 10:11 AM	#5
Policenaut Infidel Defiler Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Shadow Moses Island Posts: 2,193	I think it has moved along quite a bit. Larger and better quality screens, multitouch, 4g internet (could your old phone stream netflix movies?), wireless tether multiple devices (8-10) to your phones internet connection, video chat with front facing cameras, high quality back facing cameras, augmented reality apps, video output (hdmi or dlna to wirelessly connect to your tv), dedicated appstores with just about any program you could think of, high quality games, and gps and navigation equal to standalone hardware. I don't know what phone you got or where you expect smartphones to be right now. What kind of services or features do you think are missing right now?

11th July 2011, 10:21 AM	#7
excaza Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Boston Posts: 3,632	Originally Posted by PGH I just got my first smart phone and I loathe it. The battery can run for about 40 minutes before it's depleted, depending on what you're doing. Decide to listen to a few songs on Pandora and it's more like 15 minutes. And charging it takes about half a day it seems. So I had to buy another charger for work so I'm not carrying one with me back and forth. Then I realized I've got the phone plugged in to charge 70-80% of the time. Some mobile phone. This is more likely an actual malfunction rather than a true representation of your device, what did you buy?
	__________________

11th July 2011, 10:26 AM	#8
PGH Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,002	Originally Posted by excaza This is more likely an actual malfunction rather than a true representation of your device, what did you buy? Well I do suspect/know that a large part of the problem is probably my own ineptitude. I'm going to see if Verizon offers classes on using this brand of phone. It's a Vortex. Hey it was $40 after resigning with Verizon and I can't afford an iPhone! You take your mockery elsewhere, everyone reading this!
PGH Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,002

11th July 2011, 10:29 AM	#9
excaza Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Boston Posts: 3,632	My intent was not to mock, just to point out that a 40 minute battery life is unacceptable for any device, even a smartphone. It could very well just be a faulty battery. Have you done any investigoogling to see if others are having a similar problem? Sent from my iPhone
	__________________ Last edited by excaza; 11th July 2011 at 10:30 AM.

11th July 2011, 10:33 AM	#10
PGH Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,002	Oh I never thought you were mocking. Just pre-emptively lashing out at those who would laugh at my little Vortex, probably from behind their clean, white iPhones... racists. What I tried to do was download an "apps killer" thinking that those (or something that's running) is what's killing my battery. But anytime I use the apps killer to kill apps those same apps came back less than a minute later. "Apps" used to mean appetizers. And I'm about to trade this thing in for an order of cheesesticks anyway. As a kid we had a phone on the wall. Sometimes the chord would get tangled. That was basically the only problem with it. I think I'm starting to miss that phone...
PGH Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,002

11th July 2011, 11:17 AM	#11
Wudang BOFH Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sheffield Posts: 8,247	Checked its spec Talk Time Up to 450 min Standby Time Up to 500 Hours I'd say you have a duff battery.
	__________________ Aphorism: Subjects most likely to be declared inappropriate for humor are the ones most in need of it. -epepke

11th July 2011, 02:01 PM	#12
dtugg Banned Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: NWO headquarters Posts: 7,898	I can easily get my Android device to last for more than 24 hours, depending, of course, on usage. I dunno about Verizon, but with Sprint, they will just give you a new battery if you go to the store and tell them it them it isn't holding charge well.

11th July 2011, 06:26 PM	#13
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,219	Originally Posted by Wudang Checked its spec Talk Time Up to 450 min Standby Time Up to 500 Hours I'd say you have a duff battery. Screen-on time is costly, though. One thing to do is to set the brightness down and allow screen lock to be short. Another is to turn off things you are not using, like WiFi when you are not in a home WiFi zone; It is searching for connections all the time.
	__________________ Are you IN? Join the IN crowd now!

11th July 2011, 06:32 PM	#14
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,670	Originally Posted by Darat Why has progress been so slow in smartphones? I've only just moved from my 7 year old Sony P900 smartphone to an android phone, and yes the android phone is not as thick and is lighter (but doesn't last anywhere near as long on a single charge, seems that manufacturers are more interested in making the phone "slim" at the sake of a good sized battery) yet I've been quite underwhelmed by the new features. Yes the "experience" is smoother and the new phone runs at quite a fast pace and things like resolution have increased but beyond GPS there is nothing in principle that I couldn't do with my old smartphone. Why has development been so slow for smartphones? Other than smaller, lighter, faster, smoother, and GPS navigation, what advancements did you expect, and why? ETA: I mean, it's not like the last decade has heralded a quantum leap forward in processor efficiency or battery life. Unless I've missed some very important press releases.
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,670	Last edited by theprestige; 11th July 2011 at 06:34 PM.

11th July 2011, 06:53 PM	#15
dtugg Banned Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: NWO headquarters Posts: 7,898	You could not pay me to use some crappy Symbian phone from several years ago. Well, I guess you could but it would be expensive.

11th July 2011, 07:49 PM	#16
Ferguson Muse Join Date: May 2009 Location: Lansing, MI Posts: 835	I'm not sure what features I'd want that aren't there. My phone has already replaced several other devices, it's my camera, my gaming system, my GPS, my primary web browser, and hulu/netflix has relegated my TV to the occasional DVD.

12th July 2011, 03:15 AM	#17
Cuddles Decoy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land full of pink fluffy sheeps and bunnies Posts: 16,597	Originally Posted by theprestige Other than smaller, lighter, faster, smoother, and GPS navigation, what advancements did you expect, and why? Very much this. When it comes down to it, a smartphone is still just a telephone with a very small computer attached to it. There's only so much it can do. Calls, texts, internet, camera, mp3 player, video, touch screen, games, GPS, wifi, bluetooth. New phones can generally do all that better, or at least faster, but other than that, what else is there? There just doesn't seem much left to add to a pocket-sized mobile device that is both useful and actually capable of fitting on it. The thing is, not everything always advances. Look at TV, for example. What people want in TV is a screen that sits in one place and shows moving pictures. The screen size and resolution has increased a bit while overall size and weight has gone down, but otherwise there has barely been any change in my entire life, because if you changed it too much it would no longer be useful as a TV for most people. It's the same for phones. They need to be a certain size, weight, and so on, and so any changes are inherently limited. We've already crammed pretty much every feature we can think of into them, so any changes are now down to making the existing features better in some way. Maybe there are more things we could do with them, but obviously no-one's thought of them yet.
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12th July 2011, 05:10 AM	#18
PGH Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,002	Originally Posted by BenBurch Screen-on time is costly, though. One thing to do is to set the brightness down and allow screen lock to be short. Another is to turn off things you are not using, like WiFi when you are not in a home WiFi zone; It is searching for connections all the time. I think you just solved my problem. My thanks. I know it's me, not the infernal device. But I still need to blame the infernal device!!
PGH Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,002

12th July 2011, 05:21 AM	#19
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,803	Originally Posted by theprestige Other than smaller, lighter, faster, smoother, and GPS navigation, what advancements did you expect, and why? ETA: I mean, it's not like the last decade has heralded a quantum leap forward in processor efficiency or battery life. Unless I've missed some very important press releases. Scrub the lighter bit - my old phone was fractionally lighter!
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

12th July 2011, 07:23 PM	#20
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,670	Originally Posted by Darat Scrub the lighter bit - my old phone was fractionally lighter! Your old phone probably had a much lower-resolution camera, too. If any camera at all. So other than all the obvious advancements you listed (including, if you like, a substantially improved performance-to-weight ratio), what advancements were you expecting, and why?
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,670

12th July 2011, 11:29 PM	#21
Roboramma Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shanghai Posts: 7,099	Originally Posted by theprestige Your old phone probably had a much lower-resolution camera, too. If any camera at all. So other than all the obvious advancements you listed (including, if you like, a substantially improved performance-to-weight ratio), what advancements were you expecting, and why? I was thinking it should be able to diagnose all known diseases, scan for signs of life, etc.
	__________________ "... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov

13th July 2011, 12:18 AM	#22
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,803	Originally Posted by theprestige Your old phone probably had a much lower-resolution camera, too. If any camera at all. So other than all the obvious advancements you listed (including, if you like, a substantially improved performance-to-weight ratio), what advancements were you expecting, and why? Why? Because things do tend to move on a bit over 7 years in the "hi tech" industries and if I knew what advances and developments I'd expected... I'd have started a company. I think my expectations have been set too high because as an earlier adopter of smartphones (the P900 was not my first) and experiencing the speed of advances in just those first few years I'd expected that the rate of advance would have remained the same. I'll just have to accept that until the rest of you catch-up with the likes of us the rate of development and advances will remain sluggish since you don't know any better.....
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

13th July 2011, 12:29 AM	#23
Lothian Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: https://twitter.com/CV4UK Posts: 10,373	Originally Posted by Darat Why? Because things do tend to move on a bit over 7 years in the "hi tech" industries and if I knew what advances and developments I'd expected... I'd have started a company. I think my expectations have been set too high because as an earlier adopter of smartphones (the P900 was not my first) and experiencing the speed of advances in just those first few years I'd expected that the rate of advance would have remained the same. I'll just have to accept that until the rest of you catch-up with the likes of us the rate of development and advances will remain sluggish since you don't know any better..... I know very little about this so if I am talking crap (again) tell me. The 3G licenses were very expensive. We have been stuck for a long time (in electronic terms) with 3G so the licensees can recoup their costs. Otherwise 4G would have been released sooner and we would have seen the benefits before now.

13th July 2011, 12:31 AM	#24
Roboramma Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shanghai Posts: 7,099	So, which advances were you expecting again?
	__________________ "... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov

13th July 2011, 12:33 AM	#25
Lothian Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: https://twitter.com/CV4UK Posts: 10,373	Originally Posted by Roboramma So, which advances were you expecting again? From my point of view streaming TV and an app which tells me where I have left my keys.

13th July 2011, 12:43 AM	#26
Ausmerican Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3,381	Having recently gotten an Android (HTC Incredible2) I am quite impressed. 1gig processor, 32gig of memory was desktop PC material not too long ago. 8mp camera, HD videocamera, front camera for skype. Apps that can scan a doc via the camera and turn it into a .pdf, scan via images taken from the camera (of paintings, barcodes, etc) to find data via image matching online, heart rate monitor through the camera that is surprisingly accurate, 48 function scientific calculator, even a tunable guitar, piano, and drumkit. Actually looking at the timeframe mentioned in the OP, 7 years, this phone outperforms my desktop from 7 years ago in every respect. Plus it makes phonecalls they tell me.
Ausmerican Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3,381	__________________ Everyone must believe in something. I believe I'll go canoeing. Henry David Thoreau

13th July 2011, 01:03 AM	#27
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,803	Originally Posted by Lothian I know very little about this so if I am talking crap (again) tell me. The 3G licenses were very expensive. We have been stuck for a long time (in electronic terms) with 3G so the licensees can recoup their costs. Otherwise 4G would have been released sooner and we would have seen the benefits before now. I thought the issue with 4G was that TV hasn't yet all gone digital?
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

13th July 2011, 01:04 AM	#28
Fishstick Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,303	Originally Posted by Lothian From my point of view streaming TV and an app which tells me where I have left my keys. The firs tis possible with Hulu and netflix apps. I'd be surprised if the latter hasn't already been done in some way. I would think having a bluetooth / IR keychain that beeps if a phone app 'calls it' wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility?

13th July 2011, 01:05 AM	#29
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,803	Originally Posted by Ausmerican Having recently gotten an Android (HTC Incredible2) I am quite impressed. 1gig processor, 32gig of memory was desktop PC material not too long ago. 8mp camera, HD videocamera, front camera for skype. Apps that can scan a doc via the camera and turn it into a .pdf, scan via images taken from the camera (of paintings, barcodes, etc) to find data via image matching online, heart rate monitor through the camera that is surprisingly accurate, 48 function scientific calculator, even a tunable guitar, piano, and drumkit. Actually looking at the timeframe mentioned in the OP, 7 years, this phone outperforms my desktop from 7 years ago in every respect. Plus it makes phonecalls they tell me. Yeah I've just found that feature on mine, must be one of those easter egg things that programmers like to sneak in.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

13th July 2011, 02:08 AM	#30
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,803	I was looking for old references and found this link: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=3330 with a photo of the XDA IIs that was released in 2004. Made me chuckle to think of the current Apple v Samsung spats over looks of phones and form factor. As I said earlier my criticism is not that what they do has got better/faster/smoother but that really apart from the addition of GPS there doesn't seem to have been any great original innovation (most of the development that there has been is accounted for by Moore's and similar laws.). As for asking me what I expected, that rather misses the point - innovations tend to only be obvious with hindsight!
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

13th July 2011, 04:16 AM	#31
Cuddles Decoy Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land full of pink fluffy sheeps and bunnies Posts: 16,597	Originally Posted by Lothian Otherwise 4G would have been released sooner and we would have seen the benefits before now. No we wouldn't. The issue with 4G is that it's simply not possible with current technology. There are a couple of things being advertised as 4G but they don't come anywhere near the actual 4G standard, they're just "a bit better than 3G and you can't legally stop us calling it 4G". Originally Posted by Darat As for asking me what I expected, that rather misses the point - innovations tend to only be obvious with hindsight! That was part of my point in my last post - you don't know what advances there should have been. I don't know what advances there should have been. In fact, it turns out no-one knows what advances there should have been. Which is why, aside from the major improvements to all the things that were already there, there haven't been any significant additions. It's simply that people have run out of obvious things to add, and no-one has come up with any non-obvious ideas yet. Quote: Why? Because things do tend to move on a bit over 7 years in the "hi tech" industries But they have moved on. As already noted, phones are faster, smaller, lighter, more powerful, have better screens, better (well, more technically advanced) interfaces, better cameras, GPS, compasses, and can do a huge amount more via apps that make use of the various bits of improved hardware. The question isn't why you'd expect things to move on, because obviously they have. The question is why you expect things to have moved on any more, or in different ways, than they actually have?
	__________________ I am not a little teapot.

13th July 2011, 04:29 AM	#32
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,803	Originally Posted by Cuddles N...snip... The question isn't why you'd expect things to move on, because obviously they have. The question is why you expect things to have moved on any more, or in different ways, than they actually have? As I said it's because pretty much all the features of a modern smartphone where pretty much in place at least 7 years ago.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

13th July 2011, 04:53 AM	#33
Ethan Thane Athen Muse Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 950	OK, I'll help Darat out here. What I would have expected to happen now (and frustratingly the technology actually exists to do it) is that smart phones would have got over the two things that actually hold them back from truly replacing other devices (PC, TV etc) ie maintain the same portable form factor but full (or near full) size screen and keyboard.* I saw 'roll out' flexible screens that could be built in to phones several years ago (similarly I've seen minitiarised projector technology - though I suspect it would be heavy on the battery). I've also seen both 'rollable' and projected (very cool) keyboards. The smart phone is now as powerful as PCs of a few years ago but is still too limited by its HCI. Anyway, that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I can come up with more.... *Before anybody points it out, yes they would still need their 'normal' screen and keyboard for use when truly 'on the move'. I don't see that as a problem.
Ethan Thane Athen Muse Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 950

13th July 2011, 04:55 AM	#34
Fishstick Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,303	Originally Posted by Darat As I said it's because pretty much all the features of a modern smartphone where pretty much in place at least 7 years ago. But heavier, clunkier, and relatively more expensive, which is exactly what Cuddle said. A P900 also didnd't have a built-in GPS or gyroscope, had less memory capacity and a lower res screen. I don't know what other type of advances you'd expect?

13th July 2011, 05:07 AM	#35
excaza Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Boston Posts: 3,632	Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen (and frustratingly the technology actually exists to do it) There is a difference between technology existing and technology being commercially viable.
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