WI Gov Walker blocks voters by closing 10 DMV offices - Democrats can't get voter IDs

Skeptic Ginger · 26th July 2011, 07:53 PM

Here we go again. The GOP voter disenfranchisement team is up to its usual deceitful crap. So much for caring about democracy.

After Signing Law Disenfranchising ID-less Voters, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker Closes 10 DMV Offices

Quote:

Earlier this year, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker became one of the many GOP governors to sign a law disenfranchising voters who do not have a photo ID — a law that disproportionately affects elderly voters, young voters, students, minorities and low-income voters. Having disenfranchised tens of thousands of Wisconsin voters, Walker is now making it harder for many of these voters to obtain the ID they need to regain their right to participate in the next election:
Gov. Scott Walker’s administration is working on finalizing a plan to close as many as 10 offices where people can obtain driver’s licenses in order to expand hours elsewhere and come into compliance with new requirements that voters show photo IDs at the polls.
...the department targeting offices for closure in Democratic areas and expanding hours for those in Republican districts. ...

The Politics Behind New Voter ID Laws

Quote:

They're part of a wave of new laws enacted by Republican-controlled legislatures this year. Supporters say the rules are needed to ensure honest elections.

But Democrats say it's part of a concerted GOP campaign to suppress the vote. They say minorities, students, the poor and disabled — those most likely to vote Democratic — will be hurt the most.

I can't find a thread on this yet, hopefully I looked thoroughly enough.

Skeptic Ginger · 26th July 2011, 07:54 PM

More from The Brad Blog.

Nosi · 26th July 2011, 07:58 PM

First its union busting, now voter busting? He's putting his hairy toes over the line of committing a crime there.

Dayan81 · 26th July 2011, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Nosi

First its union busting, now voter busting? He's putting his hairy toes over the line of committing a crime there.

Requiring an ID that costs money is a violation of the Voting Rights Act.

theprestige · 26th July 2011, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

After Signing Law Disenfranchising ID-less Voters

I know this is probably tangential, but I admit I'm confused here: How do you know they're voters, if they don't have ID?

I mean, don't you have to first demonstrate that your're entitled to exercise the franchise, before you can be disenfranchised?

It's not like everybody is automatically entitled to vote. There should be some way of distinguishing between actual privileged voters, and everybody else. Shouldn't there?

leftysergeant · 26th July 2011, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

I know this is probably tangential, but I admit I'm confused here: How do you know they're voters, if they don't have ID?

I mean, don't you have to first demonstrate that your're entitled to exercise the franchise, before you can be disenfranchised?

It's not like everybody is automatically entitled to vote. There should be some way of distinguishing between actual privileged voters, and everybody else. Shouldn't there?

So Il Duce had better get off his worthless butt and find a way to make it feasible for people to obtain the ID if they are entitled to it. Otherwise, I would consider him to be unfit for his job. He is supposed to ensure doemstic tranquility and human rights in his state.

He ain't doing it.

WildCat · 26th July 2011, 08:43 PM

Mods, please move this thread to Conspiracy Theories.

Thank you.

Skeptic Ginger · 26th July 2011, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

I know this is probably tangential, but I admit I'm confused here: How do you know they're voters, if they don't have ID?

I mean, don't you have to first demonstrate that your're entitled to exercise the franchise, before you can be disenfranchised?

It's not like everybody is automatically entitled to vote. There should be some way of distinguishing between actual privileged voters, and everybody else. Shouldn't there?

For ~200 years voter registration was sufficient to keep voters honest. It wasn't until the Repugs made up the false accusations about voter fraud that this manufactured issue developed.

Read the NPR article I linked to in the OP.

Quote:

All this, he adds, was created to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

"The bottom line is, in Wisconsin, there is no evidence of widespread voter impropriety happening at any point in time," Ross says.

Despite the fact the Repugs have promoted a successful propaganda campaign to convince the less critically thinking public voter fraud was an issue, the facts say otherwise. John Fund's fraudulent claims have been discredited by the evidence. Getting the message out he's a fraud is analogous to convincing the anti-vaxers they are fools.

Skeptic Ginger · 26th July 2011, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by WildCat

Mods, please move this thread to Conspiracy Theories.

Thank you.

Provide the evidence, WC. Or go away.

WildCat · 26th July 2011, 09:07 PM

Here's the non-wingnut version of this story:

Quote:

This next Mid-January not only will some people have to wait in longer lines but will drive longer distances to reach a service center.

Abbotsford City Treasurer Jennifer Lopez say the changes in locations may confuse those who need a Wisconsin driver's license to vote.

"They will have to go to a Wisconsin motor vehicle location and that location will provide them with a free identification card. But of course their next question is going to be where is that and it's going to be 30 to 40 miles away from us."

Right now Abbotsford's office is open just one day a month.

The state budget require each DMV's to clock in 20 hours a week.

Officials say concentrating on fewer sites will give more reliable service.

So the ones which are closing aren't even open 20 hours a week and some are only open 4 days per year!

So now every common-sense DMV office closing/moving is part of the Great Right-Wing Conspiracy^TM to deny Americans their right to vote, especially if it happens on the watch of evil incarnate Scott Walker.

leftysergeant · 26th July 2011, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by WildCat

Mods, please move this thread to Conspiracy Theories.

Thank you.

It looks to me like you are trying to dodge an inconvenient truth ab out the fascist wing of the GOP.

They are not combatting voter fraud. It is an attempt at commiting elections fraud by calling elligible voters inelligible and depriving them of an opportunity to prove their elligibility.

WildCat · 26th July 2011, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Provide the evidence, WC. Or go away.

It's been provided. I eagerly await your decent from the Mountain of Righteousness.

leftysergeant · 26th July 2011, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by WildCat

Here's the non-wingnut version of this story:

So the ones which are closing aren't even open 20 hours a week and some are only open 4 days per year!

That would make sense if Il Duce was not expanding the hours in districts that tend to vote GOP.

WildCat · 26th July 2011, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

That would make sense if Il Duce was not expanding the hours in districts that tend to vote GOP.

Cobalt · 26th July 2011, 10:22 PM

Please, won't somebody think of the ~~children~~ voters!

Skeptic Ginger · 26th July 2011, 11:41 PM

Interesting the thread is being trashed before anyone has really said much about the facts. Hopefully we can get past the usual politically motivated dismissals.

Teemu · 27th July 2011, 12:14 AM

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123327839569631609.html

Quote:

The overall turnout in Georgia increased 6.7 percentage points from the 2004 election -- the second highest increase in turnout of any state in the country. According to the JCPES, the black share of the statewide vote increased in Georgia from 25% in the 2004 election, when the photo ID law was not in effect, to 30% in the 2008 election, when the photo ID law was in effect.

By contrast, the Democratic turnout in the neighboring state of Mississippi -- which has no voter ID requirement but also has a large black population similar to Georgia's -- increased by only 2.35 percentage points.

And in addition somehow rest of the Western world, who all have voter identification requirements, manage get 70-90% voter turnout.

Skeptic Ginger · 27th July 2011, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by Teemu

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123327839569631609.html

And in addition somehow rest of the Western world, who all have voter identification requirements, manage get 70-90% voter turnout.

You do know I hope, that the conclusion is false in that article. Voter turnout is no doubt based an many many variables. To arbitrarily say one of the variables was the explanation for a change is simply bad science. Bad science 101 to be exact.

Travis · 27th July 2011, 01:19 AM

I'd like to hear someone explain why this is even necessary. Never have I had to provide a picture ID to vote.

Teemu · 27th July 2011, 01:45 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

You do know I hope, that the conclusion is false in that article. Voter turnout is no doubt based an many many variables. To arbitrarily say one of the variables was the explanation for a change is simply bad science. Bad science 101 to be exact.

Sure there are many variables, but I didn't find any "good science" in the Think Progress blog or NPR article either, so just thought that was interesting comparison.

By the way, why is not the "One Democratic lawmaker" part included to the quote in original post?

Quote:

One Democratic lawmaker said Friday it appeared the decisions were based on politics, with the department targeting offices for closure in Democratic areas and expanding hours for those in Republican districts

So where is the evidence for this, and if there is this kind of "gerrymandering", where is the proof that it is worse than possible preference given by previous Democratic administrations to Democratic areas.

Somehow almost every other Western country, who have I.D. requirements, manage to get 70-90% turnout compared to generic 55% U.S. presidential and 40% off-year turnout.

Nosi · 27th July 2011, 01:45 AM

Originally Posted by Travis

I'd like to hear someone explain why this is even necessary. Never have I had to provide a picture ID to vote.

Heck, where I live I do it by postal mail! That's for local, state, and presidential elections. Wisconsin's got a

governor.

SezMe · 27th July 2011, 02:45 AM

Originally Posted by Travis

I'd like to hear someone explain why this is even necessary. Never have I had to provide a picture ID to vote.

I think that is partly SG's point.

leftysergeant · 27th July 2011, 03:40 AM

Originally Posted by Teemu

Sure there are many variables, but I didn't find any "good science" in the Think Progress blog or NPR article either, so just thought that was interesting comparison.

By the way, why is not the "One Democratic lawmaker" part included to the quote in original post?

So where is the evidence for this, and if there is this kind of "gerrymandering", where is the proof that it is worse than possible preference given by previous Democratic administrations to Democratic areas.

The Democrats did not try to exclude entiore segments of the population from voting, did not harrass entire segments of the population from voting, did not insist that unverifiable pieces crap were installed in place of paper ballots and did not make it as difficult as possible to register to vote. Il Duce is shutting down offices when they are most needed. The people in the more affluent areas probably haver time to go to their DMV office, probably already have driver's licenses and don't need extended hours to get their business done.

Il Duce knows full well that making people who do not drive travel 40 miles out of their way to qualiofy to vote is going to knock off a lot of votes against his sorry ass, and so should you.

Quote:

Somehow almost every other Western country, who have I.D. requirements, manage to get 70-90% turnout compared to generic 55% U.S. presidential and 40% off-year turnout.

They don't have fascist SOBs trying to exclude entire segments of the popualtion from voting.

a_unique_person · 27th July 2011, 03:45 AM

Originally Posted by WildCat

Here's the non-wingnut version of this story:

So the ones which are closing aren't even open 20 hours a week and some are only open 4 days per year!

So now every common-sense DMV office closing/moving is part of the Great Right-Wing Conspiracy^TM to deny Americans their right to vote, especially if it happens on the watch of evil incarnate Scott Walker.

So when he increases demand, he closes them.

WildCat · 27th July 2011, 05:09 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Interesting the thread is being trashed before anyone has really said much about the facts. Hopefully we can get past the usual politically motivated dismissals.

The facts say this thread should be in Conspiracy Theories with all the other wingnut threads.

You have presented no evidence that the closing of a few part-time DMV offices is an attempt to keep Dems from voting.

Will you be doing so?

leftysergeant · 27th July 2011, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by WildCat

The facts say this thread should be in Conspiracy Theories with all the other wingnut threads.

You have presented no evidence that the closing of a few part-time DMV offices is an attempt to keep Dems from voting.

The fact that there are fewer places at which one can obtain ID must make it more difficult to obtain ID. It's really that simple.

Bob Klase · 27th July 2011, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by leftysergeant

The fact that there are fewer places at which one can obtain ID must make it more difficult to obtain ID. It's really that simple.

Then the obvious solution is to set up a DMV in every household making it as simple as possible for everyone to obtain ID. It really is that simple!

The Central Scrutinizer · 27th July 2011, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by WildCat

Mods, please move this thread to Conspiracy Theories.

Thank you.

Seconded.

Originally Posted by WildCat

Here's the non-wingnut version of this story:

So the ones which are closing aren't even open 20 hours a week and some are only open 4 days per year!

So now every common-sense DMV office closing/moving is part of the Great Right-Wing Conspiracy^TM to deny Americans their right to vote, especially if it happens on the watch of evil incarnate Scott Walker.

What? You don't believe "The Brad Blog" version of the story?

Unabogie · 27th July 2011, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

What? You don't believe "The Brad Blog" version of the story?

While I agree with you that the evidence is thin that this is a purposeful tactic to a) create laws to disenfranchise poor people and b) make that law harder to comply with, it should be noted that here in Oregon, we all vote by mail for every election. We have one of the highest rates of participation, no issues with long lines, Diebold machines, voting on a work day, or New Black Panthers scaring poor whitey out of his tighty whiteys.

So my suggestion is, we should all vote by mail (or via internet, just like we file our taxes and do our banking!) in every state. So Wisconsin is doing it all wrong, which judging by who they elected Governor, does not surprise me.

casebro · 27th July 2011, 08:17 AM

The country is a mix of dems and reps. Even the dem districts are a mix, maybe as close to 51/49 %. So, IF the gov will be disenfranchising any voters, he will be doing it to some reps too.

I guess we would need to see some stats on how many offices he is keeping open, that are open fewer than 20 hours/week, in rep districts.

Geez, open less than 20 hours/week, as little as four days/year? Those are some small towns. The residents of which are used to going to larger towns regularly, for shopping, dentistry, health care, etc. They can stop off at the DMV on those trips. What, once every four or ten years?

casebro · 27th July 2011, 08:20 AM

I just got the image of a general store, with a couple barred windows. One is the Post Office, another is the local DMV. Mr Haney is behind the counter, changing hats as he moves from window to window.

ETA:, I assume Mr. Haney to be a union member, of BOTH unions?

casebro · 27th July 2011, 08:23 AM

The dems real problem is that ACORN is not around to bus loads of dems to the 'big city'?

Howie Felterbush · 27th July 2011, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by casebro

I just got the image of a general store, with a couple barred windows. One is the Post Office, another is the local DMV. Mr Haney is behind the counter, changing hats as he moves from window to window.

ETA:, I assume Mr. Haney to be a union member, of BOTH unions?

When I was a kid growing up in rural Wisconsin, the DMV was in town one day a week. It was a circuit thing; the DMV people were in this town on Monday, another town on Tuesday, etc. They used the National Guard armory as a DMV facility in my town. It was a lot like the Mr. Haney situation you describe. One guy behind the counter doing licenses, registration and title changes. If you needed to take your road test, he would hang a sign on the door telling people to wait while he conducted the test.

I read the "Brad Blog" story. I think the people in that story are at the DMV every time I go. They always get there right before I do. Some toolbag and his keeper that can't fill out a form properly, don't bring the requested material and then spaz out when they're told "You're doing it wrong!" I can just imagine the poor sap in line behind them, just wanting to renew his license while these two fools entertain hypotheticals with the DMV employee. "Well, what if he was homeless?" Jesus. A trip to the DMV is bad enough without having someone playing "What if?" in front of you.

The Central Scrutinizer · 27th July 2011, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by Howie Felterbush

When I was a kid growing up in rural Wisconsin, the DMV was in town one day a week. It was a circuit thing; the DMV people were in this town on Monday, another town on Tuesday, etc. They used the National Guard armory as a DMV facility in my town. It was a lot like the Mr. Haney situation you describe. One guy behind the counter doing licenses, registration and title changes. If you needed to take your road test, he would hang a sign on the door telling people to wait while he conducted the test..

Wow. So Scott Walker is so evil, that he was able to limit DMV services decades before he was even in office!

The "Brad Blog" really needs to look into this.

Howie Felterbush · 27th July 2011, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Wow. So Scott Walker is so evil, that he was able to limit DMV services decades before he was even in office!

The "Brad Blog" really needs to look into this.

I was disenfranchised before it was cool.

Alt+F4 · 27th July 2011, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Seconded.

Thirded.

Quote:

What? You don't believe "The Brad Blog" version of the story?

Indeed. Brad's a fan of Sibel Edmonds I see.

Yikes, a quick look at the Wisconsin DMV site shows that a state issued ID is good for 8 years. Again, where is the evidence that this is a NPEP (neferious plot of epic proportions)?

MattusMaximus · 27th July 2011, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Unabogie

While I agree with you that the evidence is thin that this is a purposeful tactic to a) create laws to disenfranchise poor people and b) make that law harder to comply with, it should be noted that here in Oregon, we all vote by mail for every election. We have one of the highest rates of participation, no issues with long lines, Diebold machines, voting on a work day, or New Black Panthers scaring poor whitey out of his tighty whiteys.

So my suggestion is, we should all vote by mail (or via internet, just like we file our taxes and do our banking!) in every state. So Wisconsin is doing it all wrong, which judging by who they elected Governor, does not surprise me.

This solution makes so much sense that, sadly, it will likely never be implemented. That's because it would do too much to actually fix the problem and thus deny all the players involved of a much-desired political talking point.

BenBurch · 27th July 2011, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by Travis

I'd like to hear someone explain why this is even necessary. Never have I had to provide a picture ID to vote.

Because insane GOPers are all worried that masses of poor people will descend on the polls like they did in Indiana in 2008.

BenBurch · 27th July 2011, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by casebro

The dems real problem is that ACORN is not around to bus loads of dems to the 'big city'?

Not going to be a problem. Busing is already being organized.

Unabogie · 27th July 2011, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

This solution makes so much sense that, sadly, it will likely never be implemented. That's because it would do too much to actually fix the problem and thus deny all the players involved of a much-desired political talking point.

When I first moved here I honestly couldn't believe how convenient it was. You get your ballot about two weeks before the election, and I sit in front of my laptop as I vote. I watch candidate videos, read the local rags' voting guides, research front groups. Then I vote over the course of several days until I'm done, sign the envelope, then go two blocks to the dropoff box (you can just place it in your mailbox if you want!)

You can drop them off at drop boxes, the library, just about everywhere. It's so easy it just astounds me that this isn't talked about more when issues like this come up.

26th July 2011, 07:53 PM	#1
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,570	WI Gov Walker blocks voters by closing 10 DMV offices - Democrats can't get voter IDs Here we go again. The GOP voter disenfranchisement team is up to its usual deceitful crap. So much for caring about democracy. After Signing Law Disenfranchising ID-less Voters, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker Closes 10 DMV Offices Quote: Earlier this year, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker became one of the many GOP governors to sign a law disenfranchising voters who do not have a photo ID — a law that disproportionately affects elderly voters, young voters, students, minorities and low-income voters. Having disenfranchised tens of thousands of Wisconsin voters, Walker is now making it harder for many of these voters to obtain the ID they need to regain their right to participate in the next election: Gov. Scott Walker’s administration is working on finalizing a plan to close as many as 10 offices where people can obtain driver’s licenses in order to expand hours elsewhere and come into compliance with new requirements that voters show photo IDs at the polls. ...the department targeting offices for closure in Democratic areas and expanding hours for those in Republican districts. ... The Politics Behind New Voter ID Laws Quote: They're part of a wave of new laws enacted by Republican-controlled legislatures this year. Supporters say the rules are needed to ensure honest elections. But Democrats say it's part of a concerted GOP campaign to suppress the vote. They say minorities, students, the poor and disabled — those most likely to vote Democratic — will be hurt the most. I can't find a thread on this yet, hopefully I looked thoroughly enough.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

26th July 2011, 07:54 PM	#2
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,570	More from The Brad Blog.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

26th July 2011, 07:58 PM	#3
Nosi Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,731	First its union busting, now voter busting? He's putting his hairy toes over the line of committing a crime there.
Nosi Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,731	__________________ __________ Hiding from the

26th July 2011, 08:00 PM	#4
Dayan81 Banned Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 450	Originally Posted by Nosi First its union busting, now voter busting? He's putting his hairy toes over the line of committing a crime there. Requiring an ID that costs money is a violation of the Voting Rights Act.
Dayan81 Banned Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 450

26th July 2011, 08:22 PM	#5
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,594	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger After Signing Law Disenfranchising ID-less Voters I know this is probably tangential, but I admit I'm confused here: How do you know they're voters, if they don't have ID? I mean, don't you have to first demonstrate that your're entitled to exercise the franchise, before you can be disenfranchised? It's not like everybody is automatically entitled to vote. There should be some way of distinguishing between actual privileged voters, and everybody else. Shouldn't there?
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,594

26th July 2011, 08:42 PM	#6
leftysergeant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 18,613	Originally Posted by theprestige I know this is probably tangential, but I admit I'm confused here: How do you know they're voters, if they don't have ID? I mean, don't you have to first demonstrate that your're entitled to exercise the franchise, before you can be disenfranchised? It's not like everybody is automatically entitled to vote. There should be some way of distinguishing between actual privileged voters, and everybody else. Shouldn't there? So Il Duce had better get off his worthless butt and find a way to make it feasible for people to obtain the ID if they are entitled to it. Otherwise, I would consider him to be unfit for his job. He is supposed to ensure doemstic tranquility and human rights in his state. He ain't doing it.
	__________________ No civilization ever collapsed because the poor had too much to eat.

26th July 2011, 08:43 PM	#7
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,048	Mods, please move this thread to Conspiracy Theories. Thank you.

26th July 2011, 09:05 PM	#8
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,570	Originally Posted by theprestige I know this is probably tangential, but I admit I'm confused here: How do you know they're voters, if they don't have ID? I mean, don't you have to first demonstrate that your're entitled to exercise the franchise, before you can be disenfranchised? It's not like everybody is automatically entitled to vote. There should be some way of distinguishing between actual privileged voters, and everybody else. Shouldn't there? For ~200 years voter registration was sufficient to keep voters honest. It wasn't until the Repugs made up the false accusations about voter fraud that this manufactured issue developed. Read the NPR article I linked to in the OP. Quote: All this, he adds, was created to solve a problem that doesn't exist. "The bottom line is, in Wisconsin, there is no evidence of widespread voter impropriety happening at any point in time," Ross says. Despite the fact the Repugs have promoted a successful propaganda campaign to convince the less critically thinking public voter fraud was an issue, the facts say otherwise. John Fund's fraudulent claims have been discredited by the evidence. Getting the message out he's a fraud is analogous to convincing the anti-vaxers they are fools.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

26th July 2011, 09:07 PM	#9
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,570	Originally Posted by WildCat Mods, please move this thread to Conspiracy Theories. Thank you. Provide the evidence, WC. Or go away.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

26th July 2011, 09:08 PM	#11
leftysergeant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 18,613	Originally Posted by WildCat Mods, please move this thread to Conspiracy Theories. Thank you. It looks to me like you are trying to dodge an inconvenient truth ab out the fascist wing of the GOP. They are not combatting voter fraud. It is an attempt at commiting elections fraud by calling elligible voters inelligible and depriving them of an opportunity to prove their elligibility.
	__________________ No civilization ever collapsed because the poor had too much to eat.

26th July 2011, 09:09 PM	#12
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,048	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Provide the evidence, WC. Or go away. It's been provided. I eagerly await your decent from the Mountain of Righteousness.

26th July 2011, 09:10 PM	#13
leftysergeant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 18,613	Originally Posted by WildCat Here's the non-wingnut version of this story: So the ones which are closing aren't even open 20 hours a week and some are only open 4 days per year! That would make sense if Il Duce was not expanding the hours in districts that tend to vote GOP.
	__________________ No civilization ever collapsed because the poor had too much to eat.

26th July 2011, 09:12 PM	#14
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,048	Originally Posted by leftysergeant That would make sense if Il Duce was not expanding the hours in districts that tend to vote GOP.

26th July 2011, 10:22 PM	#15
Cobalt Tobikan Judan Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,631	Please, won't somebody think of the ~~children~~ voters!
Cobalt Tobikan Judan Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,631	__________________ professional griefer

26th July 2011, 11:41 PM	#16
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,570	Interesting the thread is being trashed before anyone has really said much about the facts. Hopefully we can get past the usual politically motivated dismissals.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

27th July 2011, 12:14 AM	#17
Teemu Scholar Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 115	http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123327839569631609.html Quote: The overall turnout in Georgia increased 6.7 percentage points from the 2004 election -- the second highest increase in turnout of any state in the country. According to the JCPES, the black share of the statewide vote increased in Georgia from 25% in the 2004 election, when the photo ID law was not in effect, to 30% in the 2008 election, when the photo ID law was in effect. By contrast, the Democratic turnout in the neighboring state of Mississippi -- which has no voter ID requirement but also has a large black population similar to Georgia's -- increased by only 2.35 percentage points. And in addition somehow rest of the Western world, who all have voter identification requirements, manage get 70-90% voter turnout.
Teemu Scholar Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 115

27th July 2011, 12:27 AM	#18
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,570	Originally Posted by Teemu http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123327839569631609.html And in addition somehow rest of the Western world, who all have voter identification requirements, manage get 70-90% voter turnout. You do know I hope, that the conclusion is false in that article. Voter turnout is no doubt based an many many variables. To arbitrarily say one of the variables was the explanation for a change is simply bad science. Bad science 101 to be exact.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

27th July 2011, 01:19 AM	#19
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tuolumne City, CA Posts: 17,941	I'd like to hear someone explain why this is even necessary. Never have I had to provide a picture ID to vote.
	__________________ "Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com Zingiber Officinale The Humor blog of some not crazy guy

27th July 2011, 01:45 AM	#20
Teemu Scholar Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 115	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger You do know I hope, that the conclusion is false in that article. Voter turnout is no doubt based an many many variables. To arbitrarily say one of the variables was the explanation for a change is simply bad science. Bad science 101 to be exact. Sure there are many variables, but I didn't find any "good science" in the Think Progress blog or NPR article either, so just thought that was interesting comparison. By the way, why is not the "One Democratic lawmaker" part included to the quote in original post? Quote: One Democratic lawmaker said Friday it appeared the decisions were based on politics, with the department targeting offices for closure in Democratic areas and expanding hours for those in Republican districts So where is the evidence for this, and if there is this kind of "gerrymandering", where is the proof that it is worse than possible preference given by previous Democratic administrations to Democratic areas. Somehow almost every other Western country, who have I.D. requirements, manage to get 70-90% turnout compared to generic 55% U.S. presidential and 40% off-year turnout.
Teemu Scholar Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 115

27th July 2011, 01:45 AM	#21
Nosi Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,731	Originally Posted by Travis I'd like to hear someone explain why this is even necessary. Never have I had to provide a picture ID to vote. Heck, where I live I do it by postal mail! That's for local, state, and presidential elections. Wisconsin's got a governor.
Nosi Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,731	__________________ __________ Hiding from the

27th July 2011, 02:45 AM	#22
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 16,369	Originally Posted by Travis I'd like to hear someone explain why this is even necessary. Never have I had to provide a picture ID to vote. I think that is partly SG's point.

27th July 2011, 03:40 AM	#23
leftysergeant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 18,613	Originally Posted by Teemu Sure there are many variables, but I didn't find any "good science" in the Think Progress blog or NPR article either, so just thought that was interesting comparison. By the way, why is not the "One Democratic lawmaker" part included to the quote in original post? So where is the evidence for this, and if there is this kind of "gerrymandering", where is the proof that it is worse than possible preference given by previous Democratic administrations to Democratic areas. The Democrats did not try to exclude entiore segments of the population from voting, did not harrass entire segments of the population from voting, did not insist that unverifiable pieces crap were installed in place of paper ballots and did not make it as difficult as possible to register to vote. Il Duce is shutting down offices when they are most needed. The people in the more affluent areas probably haver time to go to their DMV office, probably already have driver's licenses and don't need extended hours to get their business done. Il Duce knows full well that making people who do not drive travel 40 miles out of their way to qualiofy to vote is going to knock off a lot of votes against his sorry ass, and so should you. Quote: Somehow almost every other Western country, who have I.D. requirements, manage to get 70-90% turnout compared to generic 55% U.S. presidential and 40% off-year turnout. They don't have fascist SOBs trying to exclude entire segments of the popualtion from voting.
	__________________ No civilization ever collapsed because the poor had too much to eat.

27th July 2011, 03:45 AM	#24
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,327	Originally Posted by WildCat Here's the non-wingnut version of this story: So the ones which are closing aren't even open 20 hours a week and some are only open 4 days per year! So now every common-sense DMV office closing/moving is part of the Great Right-Wing Conspiracy^TM to deny Americans their right to vote, especially if it happens on the watch of evil incarnate Scott Walker. So when he increases demand, he closes them.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

27th July 2011, 05:09 AM	#25
WildCat NWO Master Conspirator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 49,048	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Interesting the thread is being trashed before anyone has really said much about the facts. Hopefully we can get past the usual politically motivated dismissals. The facts say this thread should be in Conspiracy Theories with all the other wingnut threads. You have presented no evidence that the closing of a few part-time DMV offices is an attempt to keep Dems from voting. Will you be doing so?
	Last edited by WildCat; 27th July 2011 at 05:11 AM.

27th July 2011, 06:22 AM	#26
leftysergeant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 18,613	Originally Posted by WildCat The facts say this thread should be in Conspiracy Theories with all the other wingnut threads. You have presented no evidence that the closing of a few part-time DMV offices is an attempt to keep Dems from voting. The fact that there are fewer places at which one can obtain ID must make it more difficult to obtain ID. It's really that simple.
	__________________ No civilization ever collapsed because the poor had too much to eat.

27th July 2011, 07:21 AM	#27
Bob Klase Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Largo, FL Posts: 2,833	Originally Posted by leftysergeant The fact that there are fewer places at which one can obtain ID must make it more difficult to obtain ID. It's really that simple. Then the obvious solution is to set up a DMV in every household making it as simple as possible for everyone to obtain ID. It really is that simple!

27th July 2011, 07:34 AM	#28
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,276	Originally Posted by WildCat Mods, please move this thread to Conspiracy Theories. Thank you. Seconded. Originally Posted by WildCat Here's the non-wingnut version of this story: So the ones which are closing aren't even open 20 hours a week and some are only open 4 days per year! So now every common-sense DMV office closing/moving is part of the Great Right-Wing Conspiracy^TM to deny Americans their right to vote, especially if it happens on the watch of evil incarnate Scott Walker. What? You don't believe "The Brad Blog" version of the story?
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

27th July 2011, 08:10 AM	#29
Unabogie Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 5,849	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer What? You don't believe "The Brad Blog" version of the story? While I agree with you that the evidence is thin that this is a purposeful tactic to a) create laws to disenfranchise poor people and b) make that law harder to comply with, it should be noted that here in Oregon, we all vote by mail for every election. We have one of the highest rates of participation, no issues with long lines, Diebold machines, voting on a work day, or New Black Panthers scaring poor whitey out of his tighty whiteys. So my suggestion is, we should all vote by mail (or via internet, just like we file our taxes and do our banking!) in every state. So Wisconsin is doing it all wrong, which judging by who they elected Governor, does not surprise me.

27th July 2011, 08:17 AM	#30
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,794	The country is a mix of dems and reps. Even the dem districts are a mix, maybe as close to 51/49 %. So, IF the gov will be disenfranchising any voters, he will be doing it to some reps too. I guess we would need to see some stats on how many offices he is keeping open, that are open fewer than 20 hours/week, in rep districts. Geez, open less than 20 hours/week, as little as four days/year? Those are some small towns. The residents of which are used to going to larger towns regularly, for shopping, dentistry, health care, etc. They can stop off at the DMV on those trips. What, once every four or ten years?
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,794	__________________ Please pardon me for having ideas, not facts. Some have called me cynical, but I don't believe them. It's not how many breaths you take. It's how many times you have been breathless that counts.

27th July 2011, 08:20 AM	#31
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,794	I just got the image of a general store, with a couple barred windows. One is the Post Office, another is the local DMV. Mr Haney is behind the counter, changing hats as he moves from window to window. ETA:, I assume Mr. Haney to be a union member, of BOTH unions?
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,794	__________________ Please pardon me for having ideas, not facts. Some have called me cynical, but I don't believe them. It's not how many breaths you take. It's how many times you have been breathless that counts. Last edited by casebro; 27th July 2011 at 08:21 AM.

27th July 2011, 08:23 AM	#32
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,794	The dems real problem is that ACORN is not around to bus loads of dems to the 'big city'?
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,794	__________________ Please pardon me for having ideas, not facts. Some have called me cynical, but I don't believe them. It's not how many breaths you take. It's how many times you have been breathless that counts.

27th July 2011, 08:36 AM	#33
Howie Felterbush Bow Tie Daddy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In the twilight, singing all the old lullabies Posts: 5,333	Originally Posted by casebro I just got the image of a general store, with a couple barred windows. One is the Post Office, another is the local DMV. Mr Haney is behind the counter, changing hats as he moves from window to window. ETA:, I assume Mr. Haney to be a union member, of BOTH unions? When I was a kid growing up in rural Wisconsin, the DMV was in town one day a week. It was a circuit thing; the DMV people were in this town on Monday, another town on Tuesday, etc. They used the National Guard armory as a DMV facility in my town. It was a lot like the Mr. Haney situation you describe. One guy behind the counter doing licenses, registration and title changes. If you needed to take your road test, he would hang a sign on the door telling people to wait while he conducted the test. I read the "Brad Blog" story. I think the people in that story are at the DMV every time I go. They always get there right before I do. Some toolbag and his keeper that can't fill out a form properly, don't bring the requested material and then spaz out when they're told "You're doing it wrong!" I can just imagine the poor sap in line behind them, just wanting to renew his license while these two fools entertain hypotheticals with the DMV employee. "Well, what if he was homeless?" Jesus. A trip to the DMV is bad enough without having someone playing "What if?" in front of you.
	__________________ "Don't be too offended by the likes of him - I hear he doesn't even own ascots." -JoeyDonuts "I must be more tired than I thought. Howie, you are starting to make sense." -MG1962 "You're a mean old evil cynic. And mean." Halfcentaur

27th July 2011, 08:47 AM	#34
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,276	Originally Posted by Howie Felterbush When I was a kid growing up in rural Wisconsin, the DMV was in town one day a week. It was a circuit thing; the DMV people were in this town on Monday, another town on Tuesday, etc. They used the National Guard armory as a DMV facility in my town. It was a lot like the Mr. Haney situation you describe. One guy behind the counter doing licenses, registration and title changes. If you needed to take your road test, he would hang a sign on the door telling people to wait while he conducted the test.. Wow. So Scott Walker is so evil, that he was able to limit DMV services decades before he was even in office! The "Brad Blog" really needs to look into this.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

27th July 2011, 08:48 AM	#35
Howie Felterbush Bow Tie Daddy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In the twilight, singing all the old lullabies Posts: 5,333	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer Wow. So Scott Walker is so evil, that he was able to limit DMV services decades before he was even in office! The "Brad Blog" really needs to look into this. I was disenfranchised before it was cool.
	__________________ "Don't be too offended by the likes of him - I hear he doesn't even own ascots." -JoeyDonuts "I must be more tired than I thought. Howie, you are starting to make sense." -MG1962 "You're a mean old evil cynic. And mean." Halfcentaur

27th July 2011, 09:08 AM	#36
Alt+F4 diabolical globalist Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Department of Abandoned Places Posts: 9,780	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer Seconded. Thirded. Quote: What? You don't believe "The Brad Blog" version of the story? Indeed. Brad's a fan of Sibel Edmonds I see. Yikes, a quick look at the Wisconsin DMV site shows that a state issued ID is good for 8 years. Again, where is the evidence that this is a NPEP (neferious plot of epic proportions)?
	__________________ "My folks touched a lot of kids." - Jerry Sandusky