Merged: Apollo "hoax" discussion / Lick observatory laser saga

[Redtail]

Do flights from San fran to India even go through Europe?

[phunk]

Originally Posted by Hans

Still we have the LM on the Moon while you're lying about going to Delhi.

He lies about everything. It's very obvious from certain phrases that he uses that he is much younger than he claims.

[matt.tansy]

Originally Posted by Patrick1000

First of all, my point stands about using the correction factors on all of the other east coordinates.

Of course, you think it does, otherwise your lame brain theory would be in even deeper trouble. Footnote (c) applies to the photo position obtained from the map mentioned in footnote (a), not to any other navigation method. I posted a picture of it! Everybody can see it. Who here can see it?

Quote:

In no case does it give you 23 26' 00". AND my dear friend , I am so very glad that you brought this up because it gives an excellent example of how these clowns play loose and fast with the numbers to dupe us.

So according to Matt and NASA's Mission Report, the photography determined coordinates,

Since you intentionally neglected to mention the reconstructed accelerometer trajectory out of sheer intellectual cowardice allow me to quote myself:

Originally Posted by matt.tansy

If the reconstructed accelerometer position has the map corrections applied it matches the position given to Lick.

Yet you continue:

Quote:

once converted to the "minutes and seconds of arc" form will yield 00 41' 15" north and 23 26' 00" E once we complete the calculation with the appropriate correction factors. For the north coordinate 0.647 we have the equivalent 00 38' 49" and to that we add 2' 25" and obtain 00 41 14". Now in the east coordinate case we have 23.505, which converts to 23 30' 18. We subtract 4' 17" and obtain 23 26' 01". Indeed close, but very much not 00 41 15 and closer still but not 23 26 01. AND here is one case where EXACT coordinates do matter

Bolding mine. This whole time you've been saying Lick was given the EXACT rendezvous radar position before Reed came in the morning, and mocked my assertion the positions did not match, saying they were close enough, and yet his position was off, if you apply the map corrections, which you're not supposed to do, by 40" of latitude and 17" of longitude, and even more off if you don't apply the map correction. Yet the reconstructed accelerometer trajectory is off by 1" and 1" (no doubt due to rounding errors when converting between a thousandth decimal place and one second of arc) and suddenly that's not close enough??? How does your ludicrously inconsistent logic not make your brain explode?

If you're going to apply the corrections to the rendezvous radar position you have to apply them to the reconstructed accelerometer position, too. So Mission Control reconstructed the PGNCS trajectory with the known errors and came up with a new position. Someone converted it to map coordinates and someone else passed it on to Lick. Mystery Solved!

Quote:

because as we have see, the staff at Lick Observatory was given the north coordinate 00 41' 15" not 00 41' 14" and somebody told the Flight International Journalist that 00 41 15 north was in Armstrong's DSKY AND IN THIS CASE YES IT DOES NATTER THAT THE NUMBERS DO NOT MATCH EXACTLY FOR OBVIOUS REASONS, THOSE BEING , 00 41 15 IS INDDED THE EXACT COORDINATE OF TRANQUILITY BASE AND EVEN WITH ALL THIS BOGUS JIVE NASA DOESN'T SHOW WHERE THE NUMBER COMES FROM. AND THE FIDO ON DUTY EXPLICITLY STATES THAT ALL OF THESE NUMBERS IN THE MISSION REPORT , EXCEPT FOR HIS OWN OF COURSE ARE NOT WITHIN 5 MILES OF HIS CALCULATION, 0.636 NORTH AND 23.50 EAST

Yet all the positions in Table 5-IV, including the ones available when Reed came into work, are within 5 miles of each other. So this FIDO either can't do simple spherical trigonometry or he is using artistic license. Yet another non-issue you keep regurgitating.

Since you will just quote the same old nonsense and ignore all this information I bid you good night. Your mom should be in soon to tuck you into bed.

[ApolloGnomon]

Originally Posted by Hans

Still we have the LM on the Moon while you're lying about going to Delhi.

Not the only thing he's lied about.

Quote:

In the crab salad how much lemon juice? TBSP or just a wise squeeze of a good sized one

I generally keep both plastic-squeezie lemon and lime juice around and like to use a bit of both. I seldom measure, but a TBSP sounds about right.

Have you ever tried using sushi vinegar in stuff like this? It gives a different twist to the tartness flavor. Kinda fun if you don't get carried away.

Oh, and I never answered about pepper. My wife hates black pepper so I end up sneaking white pepper into stuff. Not that she'd eat crab salad. She has a "thing" about cold food. Black pepper is good for visual impact. I like to crack a prime number of peppercorns with the mortar and pestle. Nobody knows when they eat the food, but it amuses me when I'm doing it, which is what really counts anyway.

Quote:

Check this out Matt, from the voice transcript;

Time: 14 16 34 06

CC This is Houston. Go ahead. Over.

CMP Roger. I can't see them. (COLUMBIA)

I'll need to look into this as whatever source he's using doesn't have mission-elapsed-time but some other format.

[ApolloGnomon]

Got it

Quote:

112:35:00 McCandless: Roger. We understand. This is intended to be your last P22. We don't want to use up too much fuel in this effort. Over.

In the ALSJ transcripts this is in the section "Trying to Rest."

[sts60]

Originally Posted by Redtail

Do flights from San fran to India even go through Europe?

Yes, they do. It is possible that Patrick1000/fattydash/DoctorTea/BSpassky/BFischer/mvinson/piersquared/etc. is going to India; as I mentioned before, maybe mommy and daddy are taking him for a visit. Or maybe high school is starting back up again. One can't say, and frankly the subject is too boring to think about any further.

Anyway, it's clear he's not (a) 53, (b) a doctor, (c) a scientist, (d) a published writer, (e) possessor of any engineering background whatsoever, or (f) honest, as his long history of sock-puppetry shows. The only thing that's not clear to me is (g) whether or not he's simply a troll, or - God help him - he actually believes his own self-contradictory, ever-mutating story. It is clear that (h) he has ego in inverse proportion to his competence, which I've seen before and is never a good thing.

What's interesting to me is not the content of his blather - I've transported patients with head traumas, and others who have undergone clean psychotic breaks, who make a lot more sense and can stick to the point better. It's more the way he has assiduously avoided the questions which would actually allow one to clarify his claims (such as they are), including mine here several days ago, or on apollohoax over a month ago.

I also enjoy the fun little details of how he contradicts himself - like claiming an "exact" position for a lander; when pressed for evidence, he waved his hands about a Surveyor-type craft - but since he doesn't know what he's talking about, he didn't realize that they wouldn't provide the "exact" positioning he claimed. In terms of analyzing his claims, such as they are, it's sort of like finding a paint scratch on a car that's burned up, been shoved over a cliff, and then sunk in the ocean. But it's good for a little amusement.

Oh, and one more thing: in Maryland, good crabcakes are de rigueur, but some food snots purists insist that bread crumbs have no place in a quality crabcake. Nonsense; you just need the right amount - enough to hold it together, though not too much, and from a good quality French bread dried in the oven. Fresh ingredients, of course, are needed, and I personally like a little cayenne to kick it up a notch, maybe a dash of Tabasco, but that's also the influence of the Cajun and Creole food I ate in Houston (mmm, Ragin' Cajun, Blue Oyster Bar, Pe-Te's...) But I digress.

[ApolloGnomon]

Just in case the "flight to India" has been "delayed" again, I have one more interesting bit of information.

The Apollo 11 Press Kit. "FOR RELEASE: SUNDAY July 6, 1969"


Hadn't bothered looking into it yet, but lo and behold! Page 85:

"The Apollo 11 Landing Sites Are:
Site 2 --

latitude 0^o 42' 50" North
longitude 23^o 42' 28" East"

[Patrick1000]

Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd

You've been "heading out" for the past 11 hours...

I know, and I did think I was getting out of town. Still, you guys are off the hook. I need to sleep, will try to get outta' here tomorrow.

Still, lots of progress, especially the tidbit of all tidbits. What think you of this Cl, apollo, Sez, sts, nomuse, RAF?; HERE WE HAVE THE CAPCOM, THE CAPCOM NO LESS!!!!, AND HE TELLS US THE LASER IS WORKING!!!!, REFLECTING LIGHT OFF THE MOON, FROM 00 41 15 NORTH AND 23 26 00 EAST!!!!!, AND WE ALL KNOW, WE ALL AGREE , THERE IS ZERO ZERO ZERO ZERO MISUNDERSTANDING!!!!!!, THAT THING WASN'T SUPPOSED TO WORK UNTIL 08/01/1969 AND HERE IT IS, 6 DAYS INTO THE FLIGHT GIVE OR TAKE. THE OFFICIAL APOLLO NARRATIVE SAYS THE REFLECTOR DOESN'T WORK FOR 6 MORE DAYS!!!!!!. THE SCIENTISTS AT LICK SAY NOT FOR 6 MORE DAYS!!!!!. THE PRIMARY INVESTIGATORS OF THE LRRR EXPERIMENT SAY THE LASER GIZMO DOESN'T WORK FOR 6 MORE DAYS!!!!, ONLY THE NASA INSIDERS, THE BAD APPLES, BRUCE M. THE CAPCPM ONE OF THEM, THE BAD APPLES SAY THE THING IS WORKING SIX DAYS EARLY. WHAT DO THE BAD APPLES KNOW THAT THE SICENTISTS RUNNING THE EXPERIMENT NOT KNOW, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE SCIENTISTS ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO KNOW?????!!!! WELL, THE BAD GUYS ARE TRYING TO PUT ONE OVER HERE. FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD AND NOW I'D LOVE TO SEE YOU GUYS PROVE ME WRONG. SQUIRM OUT OF THIS ONE!!!!

"CapCOM/You might be interested in knowing, Mike, that we have gotten reflections back from the laser reflector ray they deployed, and we may be able to get some information out of that a little later." ( a little after time 14 16 34 06)

Same quote as above.

Foreknowledge equals fraud baby, prove me wrong, give it a shot. I am loving this. What a beautiful day today, what a revelation!!!!!

[Patrick1000]

Ouch ouch ouch ouch, my oh my did that one HURT!

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Originally Posted by Patrick1000

I know, and I did think I was getting out of town. Still, you guys are off the hook. I need to sleep, will try to get outta' here tomorrow.

Try all you want, but unless you have a problem with missing schedules, it's really up to the airline, isn't it? What have they told you about the situation?

[ApolloGnomon]

I suppose it's probably inappropriate to report pat's last post to the mods for "excessive use of uppercase."

But boy, I'm tempted.

[Patrick1000]

Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd

Try all you want, but unless you have a problem with missing schedules, it's really up to the airline, isn't it? What have they told you about the situation?

The lady at the counter said she thinks Apollo is totally bogus too. She said, "Pat, torch those rookies!". That was about all I could remember. I guess you're hoping even more than me that I split tomorrow, ain'tcha?

Been a rough day for you boys finding out about the laser operating 6 days early. Wonder how that ever happened? My oh my oh my oh my!!!!!!!

I suggest you not worry about my flight cuz' who knows, maybe I'll get a job writing the first report focusing on the dismantlement of Apollo as we knew her. As best I can tell, that bogus story is 'bout to crash in T minus half a day and counting ever so fast, Wonder if we can get one of those fancy clocks?

Guess the painful truth is finally sinking in for you boys as HBs the world over applaud the CAPCOM and his big fat lying mouth!

Have a nice evening and study up hard on my questions. Have yet to see ANY response, even sts, abaddon and nomuse let me down. With the CAPCOM revelation, I wonder if they'll surface at all.

OH WELL,............Gdnight.

[SezMe]

Originally Posted by SezMe

Airline and Flight Number please.

Originally Posted by SezMe

*Ahem*

*Cough, cough*

[Patrick1000]

Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon

I suppose it's probably inappropriate to report pat's last post to the mods for "excessive use of uppercase."

But boy, I'm tempted.

It is a good point Apollo, but such a revelation!!! No one has ever managed to do it before!!!!!!!!!!!!! Show Apollo fraudulent and the rock/photo debate irrelevant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am sure the moderators would understand my excitement. Now that it has passed, I am moving on to more sedate matters such as trying to sell my worthless Apollo book collection now that it is over for you all.

So I do understand your point, yet it was indeed arguably quite appropriate. I'll desist. No need to rub anything in now. The space party is almost over. And boy oh boy does it feel good, exciting and honest , real this world without Apollo fraud any longer.

Thanks for the post, it was a good point.

[Patrick1000]

Originally Posted by SezMe

*Cough, cough*

How fortuitous I stuck around to put a fork in the CSM. "It's cooked, and it wasn't the sun that did it!!". Guess that passive thermal control ain't so effective after all.

[Patrick1000]

Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon

Just in case the "flight to India" has been "delayed" again, I have one more interesting bit of information.

The Apollo 11 Press Kit. "FOR RELEASE: SUNDAY July 6, 1969"


Hadn't bothered looking into it yet, but lo and behold! Page 85:

"The Apollo 11 Landing Sites Are:
Site 2 --

latitude 0^o 42' 50" North
longitude 23^o 42' 28" East"

Great Apollo, why don't you tell the Cap com to tell Reed that the laser is up and running and the LRRR is precisely at 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east. Would save that hard working young man a lot of trouble.

[Patrick1000]

Originally Posted by sts60

Yes, they do. It is possible that Patrick1000/fattydash/DoctorTea/BSpassky/BFischer/mvinson/piersquared/etc. is going to India; as I mentioned before, maybe mommy and daddy are taking him for a visit. Or maybe high school is starting back up again. One can't say, and frankly the subject is too boring to think about any further.

Anyway, it's clear he's not (a) 53, (b) a doctor, (c) a scientist, (d) a published writer, (e) possessor of any engineering background whatsoever, or (f) honest, as his long history of sock-puppetry shows. The only thing that's not clear to me is (g) whether or not he's simply a troll, or - God help him - he actually believes his own self-contradictory, ever-mutating story. It is clear that (h) he has ego in inverse proportion to his competence, which I've seen before and is never a good thing.

What's interesting to me is not the content of his blather - I've transported patients with head traumas, and others who have undergone clean psychotic breaks, who make a lot more sense and can stick to the point better. It's more the way he has assiduously avoided the questions which would actually allow one to clarify his claims (such as they are), including mine here several days ago, or on apollohoax over a month ago.

I also enjoy the fun little details of how he contradicts himself - like claiming an "exact" position for a lander; when pressed for evidence, he waved his hands about a Surveyor-type craft - but since he doesn't know what he's talking about, he didn't realize that they wouldn't provide the "exact" positioning he claimed. In terms of analyzing his claims, such as they are, it's sort of like finding a paint scratch on a car that's burned up, been shoved over a cliff, and then sunk in the ocean. But it's good for a little amusement.

Oh, and one more thing: in Maryland, good crabcakes are de rigueur, but some food snots purists insist that bread crumbs have no place in a quality crabcake. Nonsense; you just need the right amount - enough to hold it together, though not too much, and from a good quality French bread dried in the oven. Fresh ingredients, of course, are needed, and I personally like a little cayenne to kick it up a notch, maybe a dash of Tabasco, but that's also the influence of the Cajun and Creole food I ate in Houston (mmm, Ragin' Cajun, Blue Oyster Bar, Pe-Te's...) But I digress.

I suggest you take a slow careful read of the bogus voice transcript sts, better stock up on tissues before you start. The part about the laser gets us all choked up. You know, all the money we gave those jerks. Kinda hard to read it without balling your eyeballs out!!!!

[Patrick1000]

Originally Posted by matt.tansy

Of course, you think it does, otherwise your lame brain theory would be in even deeper trouble. Footnote (c) applies to the photo position obtained from the map mentioned in footnote (a), not to any other navigation method. I posted a picture of it! Everybody can see it. Who here can see it?

Since you intentionally neglected to mention the reconstructed accelerometer trajectory out of sheer intellectual cowardice allow me to quote myself:



Yet you continue:
Bolding mine. This whole time you've been saying Lick was given the EXACT rendezvous radar position before Reed came in the morning, and mocked my assertion the positions did not match, saying they were close enough, and yet his position was off, if you apply the map corrections, which you're not supposed to do, by 40" of latitude and 17" of longitude, and even more off if you don't apply the map correction. Yet the reconstructed accelerometer trajectory is off by 1" and 1" (no doubt due to rounding errors when converting between a thousandth decimal place and one second of arc) and suddenly that's not close enough??? How does your ludicrously inconsistent logic not make your brain explode?

If you're going to apply the corrections to the rendezvous radar position you have to apply them to the reconstructed accelerometer position, too. So Mission Control reconstructed the PGNCS trajectory with the known errors and came up with a new position. Someone converted it to map coordinates and someone else passed it on to Lick. Mystery Solved!

Yet all the positions in Table 5-IV, including the ones available when Reed came into work, are within 5 miles of each other. So this FIDO either can't do simple spherical trigonometry or he is using artistic license. Yet another non-issue you keep regurgitating.

Since you will just quote the same old nonsense and ignore all this information I bid you good night. Your mom should be in soon to tuck you into bed.

I suggest you go over to sts's place and commiserate with him. Might not hurt as badly.

[Patrick1000]

Originally Posted by Redtail

Do flights from San fran to India even go through Europe?

There are your coordinates Red, the capCom has them 6 days before the laser was said to have worked by the very scientists operating it. Pity!!!!

[Patrick1000]

Originally Posted by phunk

He lies about everything. It's very obvious from certain phrases that he uses that he is much younger than he claims.

I can write circles in the sky around you and your bogus phony space ship, thank you very much. This party is over dude!!!!

[ApolloGnomon]

As we're supposed to address the argument and not the arguer.....

your argument is full of crap.

http://physics.ucsd.edu/~tmurphy/apollo/doc/Skytel.pdf

An eager young reporter took footage of a calibration reflector, didn't stop to ask questions but instead rushed his film off to New York. Walter Cronkite, sitting in front of a camera and being fed data to report, announced that the footage depicted a laser bouncing off the reflector.

Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates.

Lick did NOT have the correct coordinates.

Your argument is a dubmsaa

[abaddon]

Originally Posted by Patrick1000

That's a mighty risky and big claim to be making there Matt. Sure your colleagues want you to be saying that? Since you did, I will challenge you.

Unwarranted assumptions. No risk involved in telling the truth. Not a "big claim" just the historical fact. Implication that somehow, we are all "colleagues". Invalid challenge asked and answered multiple times.

Originally Posted by Patrick1000

So there in Fight International Magazine I have presented evidence that Neil Armstrong has the exact coordinates of Tranquility Base before they were ever acknowledged as having been determined by the AOT, accelerometer, PNGS, AGS, rendezvous radar(Reed's method just before ascent), photos(not even looked at yet). See the Mission Report Matt for a complete list of the methods and the numbers(section 5).

AND Matt, the coordinates on Armstrong's DSKY ; 00 41 15 N and 23 26 00 E are not even the same as those in the Mission Report/The acknowledged NASA numbers.

"fight Magazine", Really?
All you have shown is that different methods provided different (slightly) coordinates. Armstrongs were not necessarily the best.

Originally Posted by Patrick1000

So Matt, how is it Armstrong has these numbers in his DSKY window, before they were ever formally calculated?

Ah, you reveal your youth. There was no "DSKY window". You assume that because the DSKY was a computer interface, it was much as modern computers. It wasn't. It was an array of 7 segment numerics. No windows.

Originally Posted by Patrick1000

AND, why are they different from the accelerometer derived, PNGS derived, AOT derived, photo derived, David Reed's much later calculated rendezvous radar derived numbers?

They were all slightly different. Why is the difference between Armstrongs numbers ant Reeds more important than the difference between the photo derived numbers and the PNGS numbers?

Originally Posted by Patrick1000

I say the DSKY numbers are too good to be true. Even if they did magically appear there, they are different from the coordinates , all the coordinates as derived by way of all the NASA acknowledged methods Matt.

So on the one hand you claim that Armstrong/Aldrin didn't know where they were, but on the other hand you claim the DSKY numbers were "too good to be true". It can't be both. Which is it?

Originally Posted by Patrick1000

So I say this shows foreknowledge. Armstrong has not only THE numbers, but they differ from NASA's other best numbers per NASA's own Mission Report.

See above.

Originally Posted by Patrick1000

You made a pretty big claim there Matt. Looks like it's gonna' be hard to back it up.

Science backs it up.

Originally Posted by Patrick1000

I have an hour to board. Care to give it a shot and prove the ol' man wrong? Come on Matt, let's see you debunk my claim. Here Armstong's got the numbers before they are "calculated". Are you able to prove me wrong?

You have claimed that they both didn't know where they were, and that they had impossibly accurate positional data. It still can't be both.

Originally Posted by Patrick1000

Pease join in one and all. I suggest Matt is in over his head. I have an hour. I'll stay posted. See what you guys got. Please, a concrete answer, thank you very much. Pat

You are in over your head. You can't even keep your own fantasy straight.

[SezMe]

Originally Posted by SezMe

Airline and Flight Number please.

Originally Posted by SezMe

*Ahem*

Originally Posted by SezMe

*Cough, cough*

Originally Posted by Patrick1000

How fortuitous I stuck around to put a fork in the CSM. "It's cooked, and it wasn't the sun that did it!!". Guess that passive thermal control ain't so effective after all.

*Barf, barf*

Airline and Flight Number please.

[abaddon]

Originally Posted by Patrick1000

Time for one last one abaddon. This is a challenge worthy of your prodigious abilities. Take a look at my challenge to Matt. Did he overstep there? Can you help him? I really do wish I did not have to go. I would be so curious to see how you tackled this difficulty.

Best too you abaddon, perhaps I can check your response from Europe, but then I will be in Delhi and won't get on line for the most part.

See you in one month! Pat

OK now let's see what we have here.

A. I addressed your post.
B. At 7:41 you had an hour before your flight to India
C. At 11:30 you posted the above.
D. You claim you will check from Delhi in Europe if possible.

How embarrassing.

[abaddon]

Originally Posted by Patrick1000

I can write circles in the sky around you and your bogus phony space ship, thank you very much.

Would that be on your fantasy flight to Delhi, famed capital of Europe?

Originally Posted by Patrick1000

This party is over dude!!!!

Yes, you destroyed it when you went right over into shrill use of all caps and excessive use of exclamation marks.

Airline and flight number please.

[abaddon]

Originally Posted by Redtail

Do flights from San fran to India even go through Europe?

Nope, the typical route is to connect in Newark, and fly non-stop across the Atlantic to Delhi over Africa. Nowhere next nor near Europe.

ETA: linky for anyone sufficiently motivated to verify what we already know to be a fantasy. http://www.continental.com/CMS/Conti...rld_201012.pdf

[Redtail]

Originally Posted by Patrick1000

There are your coordinates Red, the capCom has them 6 days before the laser was said to have worked by the very scientists operating it. Pity!!!!

At. What. Time. Did. Lick. Get. The. Coordinates?

[abaddon]

Originally Posted by Redtail

At. What. Time. Did. Lick. Get. The. Coordinates?

And. What. Coordinates. Were. Given?

[drewid]

Originally Posted by ApolloGnomon

http://physics.ucsd.edu/~tmurphy/apollo/doc/Skytel.pdf

How's the narrative doing PaTeaDash?


And crab salad, (in fact any salad), needs rocket.

[drewid]

Originally Posted by abaddon

And. What. Coordinates. Were. Given?

To be fair he did answer that half of the question. though he still didn't give a time.

Originally Posted by Patrick1000

[snip blather]
Has to be my last one D or I really will miss my plane. Lick was given the coordinates 00 41 15 N, 23 26 00 E per laser operator Remington Stone on the evening of 07/20/1969.
[Snip more blather]

The pair question to this is:
What.coordinates.did.Reed.calculate?

[Patrick1000]

[quote=ApolloGnomon;7488929]As we're supposed to address the argument and not the arguer.....

your argument is full of crap.

http://physics.ucsd.edu/~tmurphy/apollo/doc/Skytel.pdf

An eager young reporter took footage of a calibration reflector, didn't stop to ask questions but instead rushed his film off to New York. Walter Cronkite, sitting in front of a camera and being fed data to report, announced that the footage depicted a laser bouncing off the reflector.

Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates. Lick didn't have the correct coordinates.




It would hardly seem to matter now regardless given the fact the Capcom said the LRRR had been successfully targeted. A bit of a lie no matter how one slices it. I believe we all agree that the LRRR was not successfully targeted until 08/01/1969. And in a very real sense, the coordinates given to the Lick Observatory Staff are moot, as we have an excellent reference in FIDO David Reed who informs us that the group there at Mission Control did not have ANY useful coordinates. this is why he calculated them on his own by way of the rendezvous radar.

The story about the reporter who thought he had the Laser "scope" is well known to us all Apollo. i suggest you read about it a bit more and you'll see this piece of history has no bearing on the matters at hand. If you do not unearth the truth in this matter, I shall inform you in a later post. It is interesting because I believe Walter Chronkite actually announced the LRRR had been targeted with respect to this.

Of course if a CapCom says an LRRR is targeted, that is something that would be "checked" so the CapComs report above is a "lie" by him and those that hatched the plot. So interesting.

[Kiwi9]

Originally Posted by Patrick1000

Here is a quote from the December 1969 issue of National Geographic, THE FLIGHT OF APOLLO 11, by Kenneth Weaver.

"Laser Hits a Far-off Target

As soon as Neil Armstrong had put the laser reflector in place and carefully aimed it at earth, scientists began firing powerful pulses of ruby laser light at it. The second and third largest telescopes in the world (after Mount Palomar's)—the 120-incher at Lick Observatory, on Mount Hamilton, California, and a brand-new 107—incher at McDonald Observatory, Fort Davis, Texas-were used to concentrate the beams. Light passing backward through one of these telescopes spreads out to a spot only a few miles wide by the time it hits the Sea of Tranquillity."

For those who are naturally concerned about Patrick1000's lack of accuracy, I can confirm that his words between the exclamation marks are indeed accurate.

However, he has followed his usual form of not providing proper references (which is surprising considering how highly-educated he claims to be :-) ) and screwed up as follows:

1. Omitted the full title of the article (which starts on page 752 of National Geographic, December 1969, and is part three of five parts): The Flight of Apollo 11: "One giant leap for mankind" and it is by Kenneth F. Weaver, Assistant Editor.

2. Left out the page number of the quote, which is on page 776.

3. Omitted the paragraph which follows and makes things clearer and includes the term "lunar night". The complete quote follows:--


National Geographic, December 1969, The Flight of Apollo 11: "One giant leap for mankind, by Kenneth F Weaver, Assistant Editor, page 776.

Quote:

Laser Hits a Far-off Target

As soon as Neil Armstrong had put the laser reflector in place and carefully aimed it at earth, scientists began firing powerful pulses of ruby laser light at it. The second and third largest telescopes in the world (after Mount Palomar's)—the 120-incher at Lick Observatory, on Mount Hamilton, California, and a brand-new 107—incher at McDonald Observatory, Fort Davis, Texas—were used to concentrate the beams. Light passing backward through one of these telescopes spreads out to a spot only a few miles wide by the time it hits the Sea of Tranquillity.

At first no detectable light returned; the brilliance of reflected sunlight obscured whatever laser light might be struggling back. But shortly before lunar night, the telescope at Lick began to pick up signals, and McDonald has since detected them repeatedly.

Patrick1000: Since you have quoted National Geographic, have you contacted the society and asked it if it endorses your claim that Apollo 11 was faked? Again, please try really, really hard to answer like a well-educated adult, without the wall of childish whaffle. You failed miserably last time. Just yes or no would suffice.

[little grey rabbit]

Originally Posted by SezMe

*Barf, barf*

Airline and Flight Number please.

I presume you just want to narrow down possible identities from the passenger manifest?

[drewid]

Quote:

But shortly before lunar night, the telescope at Lick began to pick up signals, and McDonald has since detected them repeatedly.

Didn't Apollo land in the lunar morning PaTeaDash?
Remind me again...how long is a lunar day?

[Patrick1000]

Originally Posted by abaddon

Unwarranted assumptions. No risk involved in telling the truth. Not a "big claim" just the historical fact. Implication that somehow, we are all "colleagues". Invalid challenge asked and answered multiple times.


"fight Magazine", Really?
All you have shown is that different methods provided different (slightly) coordinates. Armstrongs were not necessarily the best.


Ah, you reveal your youth. There was no "DSKY window". You assume that because the DSKY was a computer interface, it was much as modern computers. It wasn't. It was an array of 7 segment numerics. No windows.


They were all slightly different. Why is the difference between Armstrongs numbers ant Reeds more important than the difference between the photo derived numbers and the PNGS numbers?


So on the one hand you claim that Armstrong/Aldrin didn't know where they were, but on the other hand you claim the DSKY numbers were "too good to be true". It can't be both. Which is it?



See above.


Science backs it up.


You have claimed that they both didn't know where they were, and that they had impossibly accurate positional data. It still can't be both.


You are in over your head. You can't even keep your own fantasy straight.

Ahhhhhh but it can be both. Actually none of it is true. The Eagle being "lost" is for those who may want to photograph it. The Eagle being sort of found, is for the people like Reed.

And, if I show foreknowledge, it is FRAUD regardless. If I prove someone did something wrong, I need not provide motive to demonstrate guilt. It may help.

It may be or may not be the case the coordinates of Tranquility Base were "hidden" to avoid a Russian snapshot. But tone way or the other, if I show there was foreknowledge, it means fraud nevertheless. Just like the rocks and photos and telemetry. The details are to be worked out.

There is no disputing that the Lick Observatory Staff were given some coordinates on the night of 07/20/1969. and there is no disputing the LRRR was not targeted until 08/01/1969. And so there is no disputing that the CapCom making reference to a successfully targeted LRRR is a lie, as it most certainly cannot be a mistake, such vital information being passed to the CapCom only after it has been verified. There is no record of this having been verified by anyone. The CapCom's controller made it up and passed it to him. It is frank evidence of FRAUD.

When the astronauts there 6 days into the trip play as though they do not know where they are, this is evidence of FRAUD. This is the case as the Lick Observatory Staff were given very specific coordinates that night, they were repeated 3 times and the man who targeted the laser says those coordinates were 00 41 15 north and 23 26 00 east. Who is mistaken? Not Remington Stone, he is not making this up. Reed is not making up the story about walking into work and not having coordinates either. Both are true, Eagle lost and found. Lost for I suggest the Russians and found for our navigation/FIDO types.

With respect to my speculations about motive for this ploy, I may or may not be correst, but this does not mean there is no Foreknowledge. These people are criminals and I am demonstrating that to be the case. The motives and methods are somewhat unclear, but we know they are guilty as the LRRR was never targeted until 08/01/1969.

I realize this is difficult for us all, but as we go along, we will find more and more of this lying.

[Patrick1000]

Originally Posted by SezMe

*Barf, barf*

Airline and Flight Number please.

Still here Sez, you'll get rid of me soon enough and to be frank, i 'll be glad to have a break.

[Patrick1000]

Originally Posted by abaddon

OK now let's see what we have here.

A. I addressed your post.
B. At 7:41 you had an hour before your flight to India
C. At 11:30 you posted the above.
D. You claim you will check from Delhi in Europe if possible.

How embarrassing.

Wouldn't you like to know about my job(s). Betcha' you'd think I was pretty cool then. No way I'm telling. So sleepy now.

[Patrick1000]

Originally Posted by abaddon

Would that be on your fantasy flight to Delhi, famed capital of Europe?


Yes, you destroyed it when you went right over into shrill use of all caps and excessive use of exclamation marks.

Airline and flight number please.

I think the capcom claiming the LRRR was successfully targeted on day what?, 4 there, whatever, well before 08/01/1969, is one of the most significant "findings" ever made by an HB. Take it or leave it, I believe that to be true. It proves FRAUD. Not motive, but FRAUD. We see with this that FRAUD is fact. That is the only way one can explain it. I welcome your alternative explanation. Please abaddon, tell me how you explain this bull?

[Patrick1000]

Originally Posted by abaddon

Nope, the typical route is to connect in Newark, and fly non-stop across the Atlantic to Delhi over Africa. Nowhere next nor near Europe.

ETA: linky for anyone sufficiently motivated to verify what we already know to be a fantasy. http://www.continental.com/CMS/Conti...rld_201012.pdf

You have NO idea where I even am now. And my location is irrelevant to this thread's topic. Addresss my questions abaddon if you please. Your explanation for the CAPCOM comment would be a splendid place for you to start.

[Patrick1000]

Originally Posted by Redtail

At. What. Time. Did. Lick. Get. The. Coordinates?

Asked and answered, don't jerk my chain. I gave you good references. The burden of proof lies with you to discredit my references. Remington Stone and the National Geographic Magazine. If you succeed, I shall present you with others. I will answer all questions relevant to this theme, but not the same question twice if you have not been able to discredit my references. And as you have made no case whatsoever against them, this is not the case presently. I have PROVEN FOREKNOWLEDGE outside the context of the official story and this equates to FRAUD unless you can demonstrate otherwise. Have at it, I await your challenge with enthusiasm.