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Theodore Kurita · 8th March 2003, 08:29 PM

Anybody familiar with this link?

I have heard of subliminal mesages before and that kind of stuff.

How much can the subconscious mind be altered by subliminal messages?

Is there any studies out there on this kind of stuff?

http://www.subliminal-power.com/mind/menu.htm

Skeptoid · 8th March 2003, 08:42 PM

Have a look at this thread in Banter. It was discussed there just yesterday. A forum search will turn up several discussions on the topic. The software in your link is total garbage. Almost as bad as Cybershaman.

Theodore Kurita · 8th March 2003, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeptoid
Have a look at this thread in Banter. It was discussed there just yesterday. A forum search will turn up several discussions on the topic. The software in your link is total garbage. Almost as bad as Cybershaman.

Thanks Skeptoid!

garys_2k · 9th March 2003, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeptoid
Have a look at this thread in Banter. It was discussed there just yesterday. A forum search will turn up several discussions on the topic. The software in your link is total garbage. Almost as bad as Cybershaman.

One of the links from that thread went to a site with this analysis of an ad:

Quote:

Notice how the dotted dress patterns create a strong visual connection between the women, along the diagonal direction of the woman's gaze, almost before we notice that there are two women --and where they are looking.

At first glance, the moustached man and the woman at the table appear to be 'together' simply because they are 'facing' each other and are almost touching across that small table. Notice the cigarettes between them.

"Meet the Turk"

You might at first assume the man with the dark hair and moustache must be the Turk.

You could read the body language of the cigarette lighting moment as a man/man connection.

But you could ALSO read the rest of the scene as a woman/ woman connection. After all, it's the woman at the next table whose look catches our eye.

The women closest to us, who is directly in line with the other woman's gaze past the two men, is almost cut off the page. But we do see enough of her and her colorful clothing that we might wonder if SHE is the Turk being referred to.

Notice that the people in the background are plainly dressed, compared to the two women. These people are also randomly arranged, revealing no relationships among them. That further emphasizes how clear-cut the body language signals of these four people's really are--and how they hint at relationships.

Not THAT sounds conclusive!

Wolverine · 9th March 2003, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skeptoid
The software in your link is total garbage. Almost as bad as Cybershaman.

LOL!! Now that's my kinda subliminal message =)

Wolverine · 9th March 2003, 07:32 AM

I'm reminded of something here. Just like when Prince changed his name to that bizarre looking symbol, can we call ((^-_-^)) "the artist formerly known as..." ? ;-)

Iconoclast · 9th March 2003, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wolverine

LOL!! Now that's my kinda subliminal message =)

Please press down harder on the page when you write.

Underemployed · 9th March 2003, 11:21 AM

I once came across a web page that gave a detailed account of subliminal marketing and how to put and audience in a suggestible state. Sadly this was more than five years ago and I can't find it again.

Also on Channel 4 in the UK at the moment there is a 'magic' show, Darryn Brown's Mind Control, which deals with similar themes but dresses it all up for TV.

The web site was fascinating and I still recall several points. The main thrust was, prior to the show, exposing the audience to a slow, rhythmic beat (sub 60bpm) at the edge of hearing - or even at infra-sound frequency. This apparently relaxes everybody as it is like a heartbeat. This and other 'relaxing' tactics are supposed to lull you into a more suggestible state.

Once everyone is in the auditorium and in an optimum state to receive your message, you start with the rhetorical questions that they can only answer 'yes' to. Do you love god? Do you need to improve your life? Don't you deserve more money? Wouldn't you like a nicer car? Do you want to be attractive to the opposite sex?

The higher your 'yes' rate the better, as people tend to repeat their answers without thinking. Then you hit them with the 'real' message and they are left thinking that they agreed with it all by themselves.

The author of the web site mentioned all this was being delivered in a university by some US professor I haven't a hope of remembering. He noted the audience included a wide range of people from all fields, with a large presence from the military. The site also said that religious revivalist meetings made great use of these tactics already and were popular at 'healing' meetings (the ones where the reverend gives a karate chop to the congregation).

I had no opinion on the subject until a short while later I was at a computer exhibition. Sony had a big tent where people queued up to go in and see what was, essentially, a Sony ad.

As we waited in line, I noticed a thump...thump...thump.

When we got in, soft blue lights played across the audience lazily while a real fountain played in front of the screen. Sony slogans moved over the walls, projected from above.

I left the tent feeling a little nervous.

PS I used to work in advertising, for which I shall be eternally damned. Unless there was a secret bunker where the pictures went to be doctored and have cryptic allusions to 'sex' put inside them, I think the poleshift site is pile of hogwash.

Have any of you been to an art school lecture and deconstructed the composition of a picture? It is a time-honoured skill of the artist to draw the viewers eye to certain figures/objects, through use of eyeline, pattern, big flashing arrows etc.

To suggest that this ancient art is subliminal advertising sounds distinctly fishy to me.

clk · 9th March 2003, 12:42 PM

NO TEXT

arcticpenguin · 9th March 2003, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by clk

If not worse...how much did Cybershaman cost?

Man, Cybershaman was a bunch of crap, wasn't it? What kind of an idiot would believe in it anyways?

subtle.

Wolverine · 9th March 2003, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iconoclast

Please press down harder on the page when you write.

9th March 2003, 09:37 PM

LOL.

Skeptoid, that one is destined to be remembered(at least by me) as a classic. Pure gold. Oh well, at least now we know that ((^-_-^))'s real age is 17, almost 18, actually! Wow

-Baggle

c0rbin · 10th March 2003, 02:03 PM

I was under the impression that trully subliminal information was useless because, by definition of the word "subliminal" we could not detect it on any level.

Example: Messages sent at frequencies above our normal hearing range are subliminal. Without assistance from recieving devices, we miss them completely.

Is this overly pedantic?

Theodore Kurita · 10th March 2003, 02:21 PM

Is there some kind of inside joke here?

What is the Cybershaman thing that you speak of?

Skeptoid · 10th March 2003, 02:59 PM

Yeah, it's one of those things, you just had to be there.

10th March 2003, 03:40 PM

I already suggested that we call ((^-_-^)) "The Symbol."

10th March 2003, 03:48 PM

You never know.

Will still pictures of popcorn inserted into movies
send me out to the lobby to buy refreshments? If you ask
me I think it's all hokum. But wouldn't it be cool, if
all you had to do to influence people was to insert
your message into their reading? I wonder how much
money has been spent trying to use these methods that we
now know are bogus.

Please respond in kind if you know what I'm saying here.

Underemployed · 10th March 2003, 11:55 PM

You are right, Sundog.

Must EVERYTHING said by these ad-men and would-
be 'gurus' be taken as gospel? The strange idea that
having hidden messages influences people does have
a certain appeal, but the lack of evidence just makes me
laugh at claims like these.

Agammamon · 11th March 2003, 07:42 AM

A ggod place to go for this is the Urban Legends reference Pages
www.snopes2.com

This is one of the items researched there.

The basic gist of it is that subliminal advertising is bunk, always has been. The studies cited by the pushers of this crap all end up referenceing the original study by the guy who came up with the concept. Only problem is that he had long since admitted to the hoax, saying it was to drum up business for his ad agency.

11th March 2003, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Underemployed
You are right, Sundog.

Everyone has heard of the popcorn-in-movies gimmick, or
else the word "SEX" spelled out in ice cubes. But what
is amazing to me is that if you look at reports in the media,
a great many people apparently believe it works, with
little or no evidence. If you were to take a modern movie and
slow it down, you'd never find anything these days, though.

richardm · 11th March 2003, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sundog
You never know.

Please respond in kind if you know what I'm saying here.

Sundog:

I find your transparent belief in subliminal messaging to be laughable.

In order to encourage you to stop you believing this sort of thing in future, I'm going to send you a large sum of money.

Um, do you take cheques?

richardm · 11th March 2003, 08:03 AM

Um. I'm sorry, I'm not sure why I said that. One minute I was thinking about sex and ice cubes, the next...

11th March 2003, 08:15 AM

Small minds all think alike. But if I were paying the
bills for some of these schemes, I wouldn't settle for
only a few apocryphal reports of success. What would
please me would be solid evidence that it works.

11th March 2003, 09:35 AM

Don't be deceived; to tell fact from fiction, anyone can read studies, but those that know the science know the end game and facts of the matter; though the believers of the world still believe it is really true and coming truer every day.

Underemployed · 11th March 2003, 10:23 AM

Some ideas can really grab people. Subliminal messages and suchlike have, to me, always sounded too good to be true. Much effort, sweat, tears and time have only been expended on foolish escapades. Advertisers have their game won for them - hands down!

11th March 2003, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Underemployed
Advertisers have their game won for them - hands down!

Ah, how true. But the thing I just don't get is, who's paid big bucks for looking into it at all?

8th March 2003, 08:29 PM	#1
Theodore Kurita Leader of the Draconis Combine Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 907	Subliminal Messages Anybody familiar with this link? I have heard of subliminal mesages before and that kind of stuff. How much can the subconscious mind be altered by subliminal messages? Is there any studies out there on this kind of stuff? http://www.subliminal-power.com/mind/menu.htm

9th March 2003, 05:52 AM	#4
garys_2k Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 756	Quote: Originally posted by Skeptoid Have a look at this thread in Banter. It was discussed there just yesterday. A forum search will turn up several discussions on the topic. The software in your link is total garbage. Almost as bad as Cybershaman. One of the links from that thread went to a site with this analysis of an ad: Quote: Notice how the dotted dress patterns create a strong visual connection between the women, along the diagonal direction of the woman's gaze, almost before we notice that there are two women --and where they are looking. At first glance, the moustached man and the woman at the table appear to be 'together' simply because they are 'facing' each other and are almost touching across that small table. Notice the cigarettes between them. "Meet the Turk" You might at first assume the man with the dark hair and moustache must be the Turk. You could read the body language of the cigarette lighting moment as a man/man connection. But you could ALSO read the rest of the scene as a woman/ woman connection. After all, it's the woman at the next table whose look catches our eye. The women closest to us, who is directly in line with the other woman's gaze past the two men, is almost cut off the page. But we do see enough of her and her colorful clothing that we might wonder if SHE is the Turk being referred to. Notice that the people in the background are plainly dressed, compared to the two women. These people are also randomly arranged, revealing no relationships among them. That further emphasizes how clear-cut the body language signals of these four people's really are--and how they hint at relationships. Not THAT sounds conclusive!
garys_2k Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 756	__________________ - Gary

9th March 2003, 08:46 AM	#7
Iconoclast Breaker of Icons Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,797	Quote: Originally posted by Wolverine LOL!! Now that's my kinda subliminal message =) Please press down harder on the page when you write.
	__________________ A gun is not a weapon Marge, it's a tool, like a butcher knife or a harpoon or... ah... ah... an alligator. You just need more education on the subject. -- Homer Simpson

9th March 2003, 11:21 AM	#8
Underemployed Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 764	I once came across a web page that gave a detailed account of subliminal marketing and how to put and audience in a suggestible state. Sadly this was more than five years ago and I can't find it again. Also on Channel 4 in the UK at the moment there is a 'magic' show, Darryn Brown's Mind Control, which deals with similar themes but dresses it all up for TV. The web site was fascinating and I still recall several points. The main thrust was, prior to the show, exposing the audience to a slow, rhythmic beat (sub 60bpm) at the edge of hearing - or even at infra-sound frequency. This apparently relaxes everybody as it is like a heartbeat. This and other 'relaxing' tactics are supposed to lull you into a more suggestible state. Once everyone is in the auditorium and in an optimum state to receive your message, you start with the rhetorical questions that they can only answer 'yes' to. Do you love god? Do you need to improve your life? Don't you deserve more money? Wouldn't you like a nicer car? Do you want to be attractive to the opposite sex? The higher your 'yes' rate the better, as people tend to repeat their answers without thinking. Then you hit them with the 'real' message and they are left thinking that they agreed with it all by themselves. The author of the web site mentioned all this was being delivered in a university by some US professor I haven't a hope of remembering. He noted the audience included a wide range of people from all fields, with a large presence from the military. The site also said that religious revivalist meetings made great use of these tactics already and were popular at 'healing' meetings (the ones where the reverend gives a karate chop to the congregation). I had no opinion on the subject until a short while later I was at a computer exhibition. Sony had a big tent where people queued up to go in and see what was, essentially, a Sony ad. As we waited in line, I noticed a thump...thump...thump. When we got in, soft blue lights played across the audience lazily while a real fountain played in front of the screen. Sony slogans moved over the walls, projected from above. I left the tent feeling a little nervous. PS I used to work in advertising, for which I shall be eternally damned. Unless there was a secret bunker where the pictures went to be doctored and have cryptic allusions to 'sex' put inside them, I think the poleshift site is pile of hogwash. Have any of you been to an art school lecture and deconstructed the composition of a picture? It is a time-honoured skill of the artist to draw the viewers eye to certain figures/objects, through use of eyeline, pattern, big flashing arrows etc. To suggest that this ancient art is subliminal advertising sounds distinctly fishy to me.
Underemployed Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 764	__________________ There is no punchy, conclusive final sentence for this post.

9th March 2003, 12:42 PM	#9
clk Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,329	NO TEXT
clk Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,329

8th March 2003, 08:42 PM	#2
Skeptoid Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,532	Have a look at this thread in Banter. It was discussed there just yesterday. A forum search will turn up several discussions on the topic. The software in your link is total garbage. Almost as bad as Cybershaman.

8th March 2003, 08:45 PM	#3
Theodore Kurita Leader of the Draconis Combine Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 907	Quote: Originally posted by Skeptoid Have a look at this thread in Banter. It was discussed there just yesterday. A forum search will turn up several discussions on the topic. The software in your link is total garbage. Almost as bad as Cybershaman. Thanks Skeptoid!

9th March 2003, 07:13 AM	#5
Wolverine Grumpy Stinky Mustelid Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,690	Quote: Originally posted by Skeptoid The software in your link is total garbage. Almost as bad as Cybershaman. LOL!! Now that's my kinda subliminal message =)

9th March 2003, 07:32 AM	#6
Wolverine Grumpy Stinky Mustelid Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,690	I'm reminded of something here. Just like when Prince changed his name to that bizarre looking symbol, can we call ((^-_-^)) "the artist formerly known as..." ? ;-)

9th March 2003, 01:06 PM	#10
arcticpenguin woo ban clan Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,717	Quote: Originally posted by clk If not worse...how much did Cybershaman cost? Man, Cybershaman was a bunch of crap, wasn't it? What kind of an idiot would believe in it anyways? subtle.
	__________________ The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it. - George Bernard Shaw

9th March 2003, 04:05 PM	#11
Wolverine Grumpy Stinky Mustelid Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,690	Quote: Originally posted by Iconoclast Please press down harder on the page when you write.

9th March 2003, 09:37 PM	#12
Baggle Guest Posts: n/a	LOL. Skeptoid, that one is destined to be remembered(at least by me) as a classic. Pure gold. Oh well, at least now we know that ((^-_-^))'s real age is 17, almost 18, actually! Wow -Baggle
Baggle Guest Posts: n/a

10th March 2003, 02:03 PM	#13
c0rbin Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,806	I was under the impression that trully subliminal information was useless because, by definition of the word "subliminal" we could not detect it on any level. Example: Messages sent at frequencies above our normal hearing range are subliminal. Without assistance from recieving devices, we miss them completely. Is this overly pedantic?
c0rbin Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,806	__________________ By convention there is color, By convention sweetness, By convention bitterness, But in reality there are atoms and space. --Democritus (c. 400 BCE)

10th March 2003, 02:21 PM	#14
Theodore Kurita Leader of the Draconis Combine Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 907	Is there some kind of inside joke here? What is the Cybershaman thing that you speak of?

10th March 2003, 02:59 PM	#15
Skeptoid Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 1,532	Yeah, it's one of those things, you just had to be there.

10th March 2003, 03:40 PM	#16
rwald Guest Posts: n/a	I already suggested that we call ((^-_-^)) "The Symbol."
rwald Guest Posts: n/a

10th March 2003, 03:48 PM	#17
Guest Posts: n/a	You never know. Will still pictures of popcorn inserted into movies send me out to the lobby to buy refreshments? If you ask me I think it's all hokum. But wouldn't it be cool, if all you had to do to influence people was to insert your message into their reading? I wonder how much money has been spent trying to use these methods that we now know are bogus. Please respond in kind if you know what I'm saying here.
Guest Posts: n/a

10th March 2003, 11:55 PM	#18
Underemployed Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 764	You are right, Sundog. Must EVERYTHING said by these ad-men and would- be 'gurus' be taken as gospel? The strange idea that having hidden messages influences people does have a certain appeal, but the lack of evidence just makes me laugh at claims like these.
Underemployed Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 764	__________________ There is no punchy, conclusive final sentence for this post.

11th March 2003, 07:42 AM	#19
Agammamon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,385	A ggod place to go for this is the Urban Legends reference Pages www.snopes2.com This is one of the items researched there. The basic gist of it is that subliminal advertising is bunk, always has been. The studies cited by the pushers of this crap all end up referenceing the original study by the guy who came up with the concept. Only problem is that he had long since admitted to the hoax, saying it was to drum up business for his ad agency.
	__________________ It will be a great day when the US Air Force has all the bombs it needs and the NEA has to hold a bake sale in order to pay its lobbyists.

11th March 2003, 07:53 AM	#20
Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by Underemployed You are right, Sundog. Everyone has heard of the popcorn-in-movies gimmick, or else the word "SEX" spelled out in ice cubes. But what is amazing to me is that if you look at reports in the media, a great many people apparently believe it works, with little or no evidence. If you were to take a modern movie and slow it down, you'd never find anything these days, though.
Guest Posts: n/a

11th March 2003, 08:00 AM	#21
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	Quote: Originally posted by sundog You never know. Please respond in kind if you know what I'm saying here. Sundog: I find your transparent belief in subliminal messaging to be laughable. In order to encourage you to stop you believing this sort of thing in future, I'm going to send you a large sum of money. Um, do you take cheques?
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.

11th March 2003, 08:03 AM	#22
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	Um. I'm sorry, I'm not sure why I said that. One minute I was thinking about sex and ice cubes, the next...
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.

11th March 2003, 08:15 AM	#23
Guest Posts: n/a	Small minds all think alike. But if I were paying the bills for some of these schemes, I wouldn't settle for only a few apocryphal reports of success. What would please me would be solid evidence that it works.
Guest Posts: n/a

11th March 2003, 09:35 AM	#24
Guest Posts: n/a	Don't be deceived; to tell fact from fiction, anyone can read studies, but those that know the science know the end game and facts of the matter; though the believers of the world still believe it is really true and coming truer every day.
Guest Posts: n/a

11th March 2003, 10:23 AM	#25
Underemployed Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 764	Some ideas can really grab people. Subliminal messages and suchlike have, to me, always sounded too good to be true. Much effort, sweat, tears and time have only been expended on foolish escapades. Advertisers have their game won for them - hands down!
Underemployed Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 764	__________________ There is no punchy, conclusive final sentence for this post.

11th March 2003, 10:35 AM	#26
Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by Underemployed Advertisers have their game won for them - hands down! Ah, how true. But the thing I just don't get is, who's paid big bucks for looking into it at all?
Guest Posts: n/a