CIA threatens "Press for Truth" producers over release of new documentary

[Sceptic-PK]

Still loving the fact that truthers are now using "truther" as a pejorative.

[000063]

"I know you are but what am I?!"

[JihadJane]

Originally Posted by 000063

"I know you are but what am I?!"

A twooferologist.

Mocking twoofers: #winning

[Dcdrac]

maybe truther will become a new shorthand for fantasist

[000063]

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.p...35#post8296935

Originally Posted by JihadJane

Be prepared: If you're going to protest NATO and are worried about uncover cops, carry a crispy creme donut and drop it on the ground...if you see a tear then you know they are cops.

Originally Posted by 000063

Mocking cops: #winning

Originally Posted by JihadJane

A twooferologist.



Mocking twoofers: #winning

You don't get the irony? Truthers are trying to use the term "government truther" as a pejorative. You have to try and use my own mocking of protesters against me, thereby proving my point.

You were proved wrong in that thread, by the way. A warrant was issued.

[Triterope]

Originally Posted by chrismohr

I see two possibilities: someone in the government wanted 9/11 to happen and they let it happen. Or, two agencies were involved in petty intraoffice squabbles that allowed thousands of Americans to die. In my mind, either possibility is horrible and merits a serious look.

At least CE's investigations merit a look, if only to be sure our security apparatus is tighter next time.

This seems like a reasonable proposition. But there's a problem with trying to use the research of people like CE, and the makers of this documentary: they're emotionally invested in a belief that 9-11 was an orchestrated conspiracy. Any information they find is going to be presented to try and support that belief.

This thread reminds me of an experience I had in fundamentalist Christian school around 3rd or 4th grade. One day, during recess, we had a sundog: a perfect rainbow ring around the sun, and it seemed to be getting larger. We asked our teachers what it was. Not one of them could answer the question, not even the science teachers. All the answers we got had to with signs from God and other spiritual nonsense. Some of the adults thought this could be the second coming of Jesus. Seriously.

The next day, our teacher read to the class a local newspaper article that explained the atmospheric conditions that cause sundogs. And I'll never forget how angrily she did it. She talked about cirrus clouds like she was forced to at gunpoint. She was very offended that a bunch of 8-year-olds would be curious about a strange event. Clearly, she wanted to hide the boring truth and use the phenomena as an object lesson about belief. I got a lesson about belief, allright, but it wasn't the one she meant to teach.

And so it is with the Press-For-Truth crowd when they occasionally stumble on a real fact. An explanation like "petty intraoffice FBI/CIA turf fights" isn't good enough for them. It's too mundane, too non-conspiratorial, and doesn't fulfill their fantasy of marching high-level Bush officials to the gallows. The material doesn't fit what they want to believe.

So when asked about it, they get coy. They can't give basic answers to basic questions. They obfuscate at every turn to keep alive the possibility their information supports their belief, i.e., an intentional high-level conspiracy. They further undermine themselves by using non-credible people like Sibel Edmonds to support that belief.

Yes, this film could contain insight into how interoffice squabbling helped the 9-11 attacks succeed. But after a few rounds of Q&A with these people, you realize you're not going to get any information out of them. They're too emotionally invested in the belief to just present the material and let it support what it supports.

[Childlike Empress]

^ fact-free pantomime debunking.

[000063]

^ One-liner handwave that addresses nothing.

[Childlike Empress]

I'm waiting for someone to address a specific something.

[000063]

No you're not.

Originally Posted by newton3376

Wrong Childlike Empress.....

Wrong wrong wrong. You do not know what you are talking about.

Unlike Sabrina, who does know what she is taking about and tried to explain things in the real world to you:

She tried to explain things here, here, here, here, here , and here. That is just a sample of her trying to talk some *********** sense into you.

Then I also tried to talk some *********** sense into you here , here , here , and here .

At least try to listen to people who know what the **** they are talking about.

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

There's a reason why you link to single posts out of context. You and Sabrina went on numerous general rants based on you being some small lights in some agency, and avoided the very specific information about very specific events sourced with official documents like the plague. You were set straight every time, and not by me. I don't remember having made more that a handful of posts adding context in that thread. But I remember that the thread is a very sad and embarrassing display of the degree of denial that's common here.

So none of those ten posts linked were substantial? In fact, your response looks a lot like the sort of "meta" post you just dismissed as "fact-free pantomime debunking". Or, if you think that was all bunk;

Originally Posted by dafydd

This lurker would like to know what CE's claim actually is.

[George152]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Folks ... this:




The interview with the producers in the OP will clue you in about the role of those analysts, but if you don't know what's meant by the "Tenet-Black-Blee" cover-up and don't know the story of Hazmi and Midhar, you should start with the Thompson interviews or read this thread.

A conspiracy kook wants us to drop all our scepticism of the world of 911 kookdom because of her interpretations ????
Ain't going to happen

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by 000063

No you're not.

Yes, I am. Couldn't care less about uninformed duhbunkie machinations at this point.

[Myriad]

A detailed debunking probably isn't going to happen.

No other action is going to happen either, so it doesn't matter.

I said for years that the effect, if not the intended purpose, of the entire Truth Movement was to provide cover for any wrongdoing or errors that might actually have occurred in the relevant arms of government. By ranting for years about thermite, holograms, dancing Israelis, controlled demolition, surviving hijackers, Pentagon fly-overs (remember those?), four missing seconds of flight recorder data, they were dooming any serious attempt to investigate, publicize, or seek punitive or remedial action for anything anyone in the U.S. government had actually done or failed to do that exacerbated the 9/11 attacks.

Since that's exactly what happened, those who worked so hard to make it happen are the last ones who should be complaining about it now.

Actions have consequences. Now you know.

Respectfully,
Myriad

[000063]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Yes, I am. Couldn't care less about uninformed duhbunkie machinations at this point.

Oh, look, CE dismissed another entire post with inconvenient questions out of hand.

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by Myriad

A detailed debunking probably isn't going to happen.

No other action is going to happen either, so it doesn't matter.

I said for years that the effect, if not the intended purpose, of the entire Truth Movement was to provide cover for any wrongdoing or errors that might actually have occurred in the relevant arms of government. By ranting for years about thermite, holograms, dancing Israelis, controlled demolition, surviving hijackers, Pentagon fly-overs (remember those?), four missing seconds of flight recorder data, they were dooming any serious attempt to investigate, publicize, or seek punitive or remedial action for anything anyone in the U.S. government had actually done or failed to do that exacerbated the 9/11 attacks.

Since that's exactly what happened, those who worked so hard to make it happen are the last ones who should be complaining about it now.

Actions have consequences. Now you know.

Respectfully,
Myriad

Yours truely, ~2007.

[marplots]

Good cartoon, although I'm not sure why the nun is talking to a dildo.

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by marplots

Good cartoon, although I'm not sure why the nun is talking to a dildo.

Good question.

[SpringHallConvert]

Originally Posted by Triterope

And so it is with the Press-For-Truth crowd when they occasionally stumble on a real fact. An explanation like "petty intraoffice FBI/CIA turf fights" isn't good enough for them. It's too mundane, too non-conspiratorial, and doesn't fulfill their fantasy of marching high-level Bush officials to the gallows. The material doesn't fit what they want to believe.

So, the 9/11 attacks were the result of "petty intraoffice FBI/CIA turf fights"?

Where's your evidence for this claim?

[000063]

Whatever point you're trying to make in that Ignored post, it's wrong.

[Triterope]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

I'm waiting for someone to address a specific something.

And I asked you for something specific to address. Many times. You gave a bunch of evasive non-answers and semantic games. I eventually concluded that you were just wasting my time. Which is exactly what any journalist, political figure, or other official would conclude if you presented this information to them as you have in this thread.

CE, I'm actually trying to help you here. I'm trying to tell you that no matter how solid your information is, nobody is going to take you seriously if you present it like this.

[paloalto]

Originally Posted by Axxman300

I notice FBI agent John O'Neil's problems with US Ambassador to Yemen, Barbara Bodine, which lead to O'Neil's reassignment from the Cole bombing, and ultimately his retirement from the FBI are conspicuously absent from this thread.

Had Bodine allowed the FBI to investigate freely the chance are O'Neil could have put the pieces together himself - without the CIA's help.

I also notice nobody brings up the fact that none of the men attending the meeting in Malaysia were known to have been involved in any crimes against the United States. So technically there was no reason to alert the FBI.

The question is why nothing was said after the Cole bombing? It is entirely possible the CIA agents involved were incompetent, terrorism was not taken seriously at Langley beyond its use as a tool to squeeze extra funding from Congress. This was still true even after CIA employees were gunned down in front of CIA headquarters by a Pakistani national.

Tech note: The CIA did tell the FBI about Almidar and Alhazmi on July, 13, 2001. This was two years after the meeting, and a year after the Cole.

The FBI did nothing.

The CIA sent a memo on August 23, 2001 asking the FBI to track the two men down. When agents requested full criminal investigative resources be used to find them their request was denied by FBI headquarters.

At the end of the day both the CIA and FBI are just government agencies.

Exactly what information are you referring to on July 13, 2001 that the CIA gave the FBI. Where do you think the CIA August 23, 2001 memo went inside of the FBI.

It is clear from my information that FBI HQ agents, Corsi and Middleton were working under the control of former CIA officer Tom Wilshire and were working hand in glove with the CIA to criminally obstruct the investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi by FBI Agnet Steve Bongardt and his team. The CIA and FBI HQ knew by blocking this one investigation of these al Qaeda terrorists that were known to be inside of the US, that thousands of Americans would be murdered by this al Qaeda attack. This was the information that Blee, Black and Tenet had given to Rice, Clarke, and Hadley on July 10, 2001.

[Axxman300]

Quote:

Exactly what information are you referring to on July 13, 2001 that the CIA gave the FBI.

This is from the September, 2002 CIA testimony before the joint congressional panel looking into the intelligence failures of September, 11, 2001. There was a review of the cables regarding the Malaysia meetings, FBI agents participated in the review.

Quote:

Where do you think the CIA August 23, 2001 memo went inside of the FBI.

The memo was sent to the New York FBI office.

Quote:

It is clear from my information that FBI HQ agents, Corsi and Middleton were working under the control of former CIA officer Tom Wilshire and were working hand in glove with the CIA to criminally obstruct the investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi by FBI Agnet Steve Bongardt and his team.

Your information is false.

The only man making this accusation is Richard Clarke. Clarke is one of the key figures who's ego lead to roadblocks in the investigations by both the CIA & FBI.

Quote:

The CIA and FBI HQ knew by blocking this one investigation of these al Qaeda terrorists that were known to be inside of the US, that thousands of Americans would be murdered by this al Qaeda attack

.

Speculation.

The Government was clearly expecting an Al Qaeda attack inside the United States. I know this because they said so, June 22, 2001 the State Department issued a “World-Wide Caution” alert. Military bases and installations were closed to the public in June, 2001, as well citing terror threats.

Al Qaeda even told a reporter they were up to something. On June 23, 2001. The Middle East Broadcasting Centre (MBC) had a reporter in Kandahar:

Quote:

“"I met with bin Laden near Kandahar (Afghanistan) over the last few days and his main supporters said in front of him that there will be a big surprise over the next two weeks," the MBC correspondent said.Among the bin Laden supporters quoted were Abu Hafs, considered as bin Laden's right-hand man, and Ayman al-Zawahirit, the leader of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad.”

So I have bad news for the troofers, the fact the government was expecting - something - in the way of a terrorist attack in 2001. They even said so.

My guess is the Troofers were the ones calling the government paranoid that summer.

[paloalto]

Originally Posted by Axxman300

This is from the September, 2002 CIA testimony before the joint congressional panel looking into the intelligence failures of September, 11, 2001. There was a review of the cables regarding the Malaysia meetings, FBI agents participated in the review.



The memo was sent to the New York FBI office.



Your information is false.

The only man making this accusation is Richard Clarke. Clarke is one of the key figures who's ego lead to roadblocks in the investigations by both the CIA & FBI.


.

Speculation.

The Government was clearly expecting an Al Qaeda attack inside the United States. I know this because they said so, June 22, 2001 the State Department issued a “World-Wide Caution” alert. Military bases and installations were closed to the public in June, 2001, as well citing terror threats.

Al Qaeda even told a reporter they were up to something. On June 23, 2001. The Middle East Broadcasting Centre (MBC) had a reporter in Kandahar:



So I have bad news for the troofers, the fact the government was expecting - something - in the way of a terrorist attack in 2001. They even said so.

My guess is the Troofers were the ones calling the government paranoid that summer.

You did not say exactly what this information on July 13, 2001 was or exactly where it was sourced, quote the source if you have it. Next you said this cable on August 23, 2001 went to the FBI New York office. Where did you get this information, refer to it and quote the source of this information that you claim you have here.

It is not only Clarke accusing the CIA and/or FBI HQ agents of criminal actions to hide the information on Mihdhar and Hazmi from the FBI criminal investigators, FBI Agent Ali Soufan now says exactly this his new book, and the DOJ IG report not only also says this but describes this criminal obstruction in detail, see pages 280-310. The defense exhibits from the Moussaoui trial also describe this criminal activity in emails from Tom Wilshire back to his CIA managers and in emails from FBI HQ IOS Dina Corsi to FBI SSA John Loguori and FBI SA Steve Bongardt. This information I originally sourced over 5 years ago came right out of the DOJ IG report.

[LSSBB]

Personal Opinion break:
This conversation is where the "Truther" focus should have been all along.
Now, back to the debate.

[Myriad]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Yours truely, ~2007.

Ah, so you were aware of the problem too.

But you did nothing about it, and it's too late now. Tough break, I know.

Respectfully,
Myriad

[Oystein]

Originally Posted by LSSBB

Personal Opinion break:
This conversation is where the "Truther" focus should have been all along.
Now, back to the debate.

*seconded*

[ergo]

Originally Posted by Myriad

Ah, so you were aware of the problem too.

But you did nothing about it, and it's too late now.

What did you do about it?

And why is it "too late" now?

And why do you assume CE has done nothing?

[000063]

Tu quoque? Really?

Why do you assume a moon-sized rubble field wouldn't crush the WTC?

[paloalto]

Originally Posted by LSSBB

Personal Opinion break:
This conversation is where the "Truther" focus should have been all along.
Now, back to the debate.

You are absolutely right, but just look at the titles of the other blogs on JREF even today. The information I have posted is just the tip of the iceberg of information implicating the CIA and FBI HAQ agents in intentionally allowing the al Qaeda terrorists to carry out the attacks on 9/11, even when the FBI HQ and CIA knew this terrorist attack would result in the murder of thousands of Americans. This information implicates even the Director of the FBI, Louis Freeh, and even goes way above both the FBI and CIA.

If you combine the account of FBI Agent Ali Soufan with the 9/11 Commission report and the DOJ IG report it is clear that FBI Director Freeh had criminally obstructed and sabotaged his own investigation into the Cole bombing. But it gets worse. With the information available today, it is now abundantly clear that much was left out or obfuscated in both the 9/11 Commission report and the DOJ IG reports, information that later was revealed in the Moussaoui defense exhibits and other sources such as the book "Looming Tower", by Lawrence a Wright, the book "State of Denial" by Bob Woodward, and the article by Ken Silerstein in the January 2007 issue of Harpers magazine.

It is clear that both of these government investigations of 9/11 were criminally obstructed to hide the CIA and FBI HQ culpability in allowing the attacks on 9/11 to take place. This was a crime to obstruct these investigation commissioned by the US Congress and the FBI itself into the attacks on 9/11 and why they were not prevented.

[Myriad]

Originally Posted by paloalto

If you combine the account of FBI Agent Ali Soufan with the 9/11 Commission report and the DOJ IG report it is clear that FBI Director Freeh had criminally obstructed and sabotaged his own investigation into the Cole bombing. But it gets worse. With the information available today, it is now abundantly clear that much was left out or obfuscated in both the 9/11 Commission report and the DOJ IG reports, information that later was revealed in the Moussaoui defense exhibits and other sources such as the book "Looming Tower", by Lawrence a Wright, the book "State of Denial" by Bob Woodward, and the article by Ken Silerstein in the January 2007 issue of Harpers magazine.

Moussaoui trial exhibits posted online - 2006
The Looming Tower - 2006
State of Denial - 2006
Harper's Magazine article - early 2007

Current date - mid 2012

What new public impact or political effect do you expect this over five year old information to have now?

Respectfully,
Myriad

[RedIbis]

Originally Posted by Myriad

I said for years that the effect, if not the intended purpose, of the entire Truth Movement was to provide cover for any wrongdoing or errors that might actually have occurred in the relevant arms of government. By ranting for years about thermite, holograms, dancing Israelis, controlled demolition, surviving hijackers, Pentagon fly-overs (remember those?), four missing seconds of flight recorder data, they were dooming any serious attempt to investigate, publicize, or seek punitive or remedial action for anything anyone in the U.S. government had actually done or failed to do that exacerbated the 9/11 attacks.

Uh, no. That's just a wordy excuse.

[beachnut]

Originally Posted by paloalto

...
It is clear that both of these government investigations of 9/11 were criminally obstructed to hide the CIA and FBI HQ culpability in allowing the attacks on 9/11 to take place. This was a crime to obstruct these investigation commissioned by the US Congress and the FBI itself into the attacks on 9/11 and why they were not prevented.

You made up the "criminally obstructed" nonsense. The, "a crime" is made up too.

The conclusions you make are not clear from the evidence and facts. Books are already written which cover your "evidence" and "facts" you use to make politically biased nonsensical conclusions.

Not sure how anyone could stop 911 without clear knowledge of the means of the attack. Looking back, we should have had secure cockpits for the past 50 years, and never let a hijacker take a plane. All future USA hijackings have been ruined by 19 idiots who committed suicide and murder on 911.

911 was figured out on 911 by Flight 93 passengers first - they took action. Believe me, the CIA, FBI, and all DOD intel sources can not help you when you meet a new threat, a new tactic, a surprise, you need to be calm and take action. It is not the CIA and FBI fault we did not have secure cockpits before 911, it is our complacency. If you have great insight, what have you done to stop the next surprise attack?

Not a thing you produced explains how you get to preventing 911. You don't try to explain how the data they had would prevent 911. How would they get the plot by arresting anyone?

19 terrorists did 911 - they are solely responsible

If you have so much insight, like the OP author, why are you not advisers for fixing the FBI and CIA? Where is your Pulitzer?

[LSSBB]

Originally Posted by beachnut

You made up the "criminally obstructed" nonsense. The, "a crime" is made up too.

The conclusions you make are not clear from the evidence and facts. Books are already written which cover your "evidence" and "facts" you use to make politically biased nonsensical conclusions.

Not sure how anyone could stop 911 without clear knowledge of the means of the attack. Looking back, we should have had secure cockpits for the past 50 years, and never let a hijacker take a plane. All future USA hijackings have been ruined by 19 idiots who committed suicide and murder on 911.

911 was figured out on 911 by Flight 93 passengers first - they took action. Believe me, the CIA, FBI, and all DOD intel sources can not help you when you meet a new threat, a new tactic, a surprise, you need to be calm and take action. It is not the CIA and FBI fault we did not have secure cockpits before 911, it is our complacency. If you have great insight, what have you done to stop the next surprise attack?

Not a thing you produced explains how you get to preventing 911. You don't try to explain how the data they had would prevent 911. How would they get the plot by arresting anyone?

19 terrorists did 911 - they are solely responsible

If you have so much insight, like the OP author, why are you not advisers for fixing the FBI and CIA? Where is your Pulitzer?

Beechnut, you are right about the CIA and FBI concerning cockpit doors, and on 9/11 itself I am not sure what more could have been done given the situation, however the question still unanswered though is what more intelligence resources could have been thrown at the issue to detect the plot elements and players ahead of time as a preventative measure. There have been some notable successful detection cases lately (especially with the Cleveland guys and the alleged Chicago Molitov cocktail plot) that make the lapse (or LIHOP) in August to September of 2001 a valid area for exploration.

[Myriad]

Originally Posted by RedIbis

Uh, no. That's just a wordy excuse.

Cause and effect, my man. The sun is just an excuse for the daytime, I suppose.

But in this case, it's your cause and no effect. Check the date again.

But, nice to see that the same strange bedfellows who crapped CE's bed for all those years are still putting the good word in, upstaging CE's and paloalto's serious and reasonable (at least by comparison) concerns with the usual guanophrenic nuttery. And CE et. al. still don't seem to mind, for some reason.

Respectfully,
Myriad

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by ergo

What did you do about it?

And why is it "too late" now?

And why do you assume CE has done nothing?

Exactly. The hypocrisy makes me want to puke. What do you suggest, oh "respectful" Myriad, I should have done other than what I did, namely drawing attention to it here and elsewhere and tell the dildo and his partners in cover-up time and time again that they are hiding behind alleged "kooks" to avoid the real issues? Hmm? If I would have had the power to throw the "kooks" into the dark dungeon below my Ivory Tower to shut them up, I would have done so and rest assured that you would have been thrown in with them for good measurement. But I hadn't.

[beachnut]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Exactly. The hypocrisy makes me want to puke. What do you suggest, oh "respectful" Myriad, I should have done other than what I did, namely drawing attention to it here and elsewhere and tell the dildo and his partners in cover-up time and time again that they are hiding behind alleged "kooks" to avoid the real issues? Hmm? If I would have had the power to throw the "kooks" into the dark dungeon below my Ivory Tower to shut them up, I would have done so and rest assured that you would have been thrown in with them for good measurement. But I hadn't.

Oh, Breaking and Developing? What happen to the big headlines? Nothing. With extra woo.

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2011...sielski-duffy/
She sees CTs, she sees them everywhere. Poor SE

I love the irony - the projection of paranoia...

Quote:

"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds"
- Samuel Adams

This is how Gage makes his 400,000 dollars a year... 911 truth and 911 truth followers, minds with flaming brush fires spreading woo. Now you will lock us up for thinking for ourselves. In your dark dudgeon.

I prefer water-boarding to beheading. Thank you in advance


The OP is nonsense. CIA threatens "Press for Truth"? Nuts are going publish crazy claims? What did the CIA threaten "Press for Truth" with? Mandatory rational thinking classes? Not picked up by MSM? What, Pulitzer Prize winning stuff never made it to reality? What happen?

The claim of "Breaking and Developing", was "Broken and Dumb". Did Boiling Frogs get a Pulitzer for this? CIT, have they teamed with a newspaper to get their flyover a Pulitzer, or the NOC? I gots to know...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvVQvBJVygg

[paloalto]

Originally Posted by Myriad

Moussaoui trial exhibits posted online - 2006
The Looming Tower - 2006
State of Denial - 2006
Harper's Magazine article - early 2007

Current date - mid 2012

What new public impact or political effect do you expect this over five year old information to have now?

Respectfully,
Myriad

You are right, most of this information is 5 years old. But very few Americans are even aware of this now publically available information even today.

What is new is the admission by Richard Clarke late in 2011 that he had been deceived by CIA Director George Tenet, and Cofer Black and Richard Blee who he now claims had withheld information from him and the FBI on Mihdhar and Hazmi that could have prevented the attacks on 9/11. Ali Soufan also wrote a book in late 2011 that blames the CIA for withholding the same critical information from him, his assistant Steve Bongardt and his Cole bombing investigators that could have prevented the attacks on 9/11, in this case that Mihdhar and Hazmi had been at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting with Walid Bin Attash actually planning the Cole bombing, and that Mihdhar and Hazmi were found inside of the US on August 22, 2001, when the CIA and FBI HQ knew they were here in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda terrorist attack. Almost all of the 2006-2007 information and the recent information has been ignored by main stream media.

The fact that almost 3000 people were deliberately murdered by the CIA and personnel at the FBI HQ is either not at all a surprise to main stream media, or just the same old, same old or just simply old news to the main stream media who think that the 3000 people who were killed on 9/11 were just not all that important. It could also be that main stream media is afraid that a real investigation of the attacks on 9/11 might just reach right into the Bush White House, and they could just be right.

Tenet found out on August 22, 2001 that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda attack that would kill thousands of Americans. He had known since June 12, 2001 that this attack was led by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and his plan was to hijack several large commercial aircraft that would target the World Trade Center Towers, the Pentagon, and the US Capital building. Just after getting this information from Blee and Black, Tenet flew down to Crawford, Texas for a 6 hour long emergency meeting with Bush on August 24, 2001, a meeting that Tenet did not want to reveal at the April 14, 2004 9/11 Commission public hearings.

When asked why he had not told the President in August, 2001 about this huge al Qaeda attack, Tenet lied and said even though he had known about this al Qaeda attack and had known it would kill thousands of Americans, he had not even talked to the President in August. So how do we know about this meeting. It was reported right on the White House web site in response to a question by a reporter. This reporter asked Bush on August 25, 2001 why he was cutting and clearing brush on his ranch instead of attending to the nations business. Bush stated that he was attending to the nations business, just the day before he had had a 6 hour long meeting with Tenet. So what did Tenet tell Bush about this huge al Qaeda attack that was just about to take place. We even to today do not know since when Bush was asked to testify before the 9/11 Commission he made sure no written report of these questions was ever released and required that he testify not under oath. It seems that the only reason not to testify under oath is so you can lie during your testimony.

It is probable that the people at the CIA and FBI HQ who had allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to carry out the attacks on 9/11 and murder almost 3000 innocent people will never be brought to justice, and that we will never know how high this huge criminal conspiracy went. It is clear however that it must have gone to the very top of the US government since there was another huge conspiracy to make sure that the official investigations of 9/11, the Joint Inquiry Committee, the 9/11 Commission, the DOJ IG report and CIA IG report never revealed this information to the American people. While the DOJ IG report has almost all of this information, they ignored the information in their own report when they come to their conclusions, that no FBI agent had committed any crime. In the DOJ IG report Corsi and Middleton actually admitted they had criminally shut down Bongardt’s investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi when they clearly knew it was illegal and knew that it would allow the al Qaeda terrorists to murder thousands of Americans.

It is the CIA IG report that likely concluded that the CIA had deliberately obstructed the FBI by hiding the information on Mihdhar and Hazmi and the fact they were at the Kuala Lumpur meeting with Walid Bin Attash actually planning the Cole bombing, actions which had allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place but this report has been mysteriously kept secret so the American people will never be told of this horrific information. What other reason is there to keep this CIA IG report secret over 10 years after the the attacks on 9/11 other than to hide criminal actions at the CIA that had allowed these attacks to take place.

[Myriad]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Exactly. The hypocrisy makes me want to puke. What do you suggest, oh "respectful" Myriad, I should have done other than what I did, namely drawing attention to it here and elsewhere and tell the dildo and his partners in cover-up time and time again that they are hiding behind alleged "kooks" to avoid the real issues? Hmm? If I would have had the power to throw the "kooks" into the dark dungeon below my Ivory Tower to shut them up, I would have done so and rest assured that you would have been thrown in with them for good measurement. But I hadn't.

Well, if you had wanted to get a serious point across (such as misconduct or incompetence in the U.S. intelligence agencies prior to 9/11), without being drowned out by the "alleged" kooks you might have tried correcting the false and mistaken claims of the "alleged" kooks as I did. Failing that, you might have disassociated yourself from them, perhaps sent a modicum of the blame their way for garnering most of the attention and wasting everyone's time. You might even have sought another venue that the "alleged kooks" never managed to penetrate, such as professional investigative journalism, peer reviewed science, academic history, engineering practice, the legal system, or law enforcement, to promote your viewpoint.

On the other hand, if all you ever wanted to do was make a lot of noise and annoy people, then having "alleged" kooks drown you out is not really a problem, is it? The more the merrier! At least, until you set your mind on some claims (based on five year old revelations by professional journalists and historians) that you think might actually be plausible to a sane person, only to discover: "Hey, how did I get into this dark dungeon of irrelevance with all the 'alleged' kooks? Let me out!"

Choices; consequences. Cause and effect happens.

Five years too late now. The iron's cooled to the temperature of the cosmic background radiation. Your dungeon's in the dustbin with Teapot Dome and the Whiskey Ring, Nixon's tapes, and Clinton white water rafting with an intern. Except, those things actually happened (more or less) so historians are still interested. The public -- well, they'll be eager to deal harsh justice for the mistakes of some CIA administrators in the year 2001, right after they finish shoring up Saigon's defenses against the Viet Cong and getting the British occupation forces out of Boston.

Gone, gone, gone. Too late even for regrets. You know, there's a reasonable possibility of global collapse in the next few decades (or years). The Peak Oil "alleged kooks" always had a better case than the Truthers did. If you were to look into that, I'd be interested in your thoughts about it.

Respectfully,
Myriad

[LSSBB]

Originally Posted by Myriad

Well, if you had wanted to get a serious point across (such as misconduct or incompetence in the U.S. intelligence agencies prior to 9/11), without being drowned out by the "alleged" kooks" you might have tried correcting the false and mistaken claims of the "alleged" kooks as I did. Failing that, you might have disassociated yourself from them, perhaps sent a modicum of the blame their way for garnering most of the attention and wasting everyone's time. You might even have sought another venue that the "alleged kooks" never managed to penetrate, such as professional investigative journalism, peer reviewed science, academic history, engineering practice, the legal system, or law enforcement, to promote your viewpoint.

On the other hand, if all you ever wanted to do was make a lot of noise and annoy people, then having "alleged" kooks drown you out is not really a problem, is it? The more the merrier! At least, until you set your mind on some claims (based on five year old revelations by professional journalists and historians) that you think might actually be plausible to a sane person, only to discover: "Hey, how did I get into this dark dungeon of irrelevance with all the 'alleged' kooks? Let me out!"

Choices; consequences. Cause and effect happens.

Five years too late now. The iron's cooled to the temperature of the cosmic background radiation. Your dungeon's in the dustbin with Teapot Dome and the Whiskey Ring, Nixon's tapes, and Clinton white water rafting with an intern. Except, those things actually happened (more or less) so historians are still interested. The public -- well, they'll be eager to deal harsh justice for the mistakes of some CIA administrators in the year 2001, right after they finish shoring up Saigon's defenses against the Viet Cong and getting the British occupation forces out of Boston.

Gone, gone, gone. Too late even for regrets. You know, there's a reasonable possibility of global collapse in the next few decades (or years). The Peak Oil "alleged kooks" always had a better case than the Truthers did. If you were to look into that, I'd be interested in your thoughts about it.

Respectfully,
Myriad

And to think, it wouldn't have been too late if it weren't for all the time and energy spent chasing nanosquirmite ghosts and phantom sooper dooper laser beams. The leaders of the Truth movement took the majority of them down the rabbit hole and most of the ones here fell so hard for it they still keep pumping it. If any are disinfo agents, they're in that crowd.

[ergo]

Originally Posted by Myriad

Well, if you had wanted to get a serious point across (such as misconduct or incompetence in the U.S. intelligence agencies prior to 9/11), without being drowned out by the "alleged" kooks" you might have tried correcting the false and mistaken claims of the "alleged" kooks as I did.

Oh, I see. You mocked and ridiculed "truthers" on an internet message board. Way to rock the establishment, Myriad. You're such a warrior.