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bikerdruid · 11th September 2011, 01:02 PM

let's not forget american nastiness on another sept 11...

http://ilovechile.cl/2011/09/09/sept...y-expect/30715
Since Salvador Allende became the first democratically-elected Marxist leader in Chile on Sept. 4, 1970 with 36.6 percent of the vote, years of investments in the economy were lost from the international community in response to Allende’s Communist ideas. Many Chilean people were dissastified with the government. The political environment was tense and talk of a coup by the hand of the Chilean Armed Forces was going on throughout the country.

The CIA and the U.S. government, motivated by communism hysteria with the Cuban Missile Crisis and losses in Vietnam, found a way to get involved and overthrow the newly-made Communist government without showing their hand. As these documents, released by the Freedom of Information Act show, they had been making plans, and providing arms and funds while creating contacts–particularly with Augusto Pinochet–to help in this endeavor.

Darth Rotor · 11th September 2011, 06:56 PM

Why do you hate America?

Did America take your lunch money or something?

Skeptic · 11th September 2011, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Since Salvador Allende became the first democratically-elected Marxist leader

"Democratically elected Marxist" is like "democraticlaly elected Nazi" or "democratically elected Islamist". It's usually the last election ever to take place without the secret police making sure everybody votes for dear leader.

By the way, aren't you now admitting all those other Marxist countries were not actually democratically established? Strange, isn't it, for such a popular movement of the people?

Nor do I see why you should care. You repeatedly say that elections don't matter. Why do they suddenly matter now to you?

bikerdruid · 11th September 2011, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic

"Democratically elected Marxist" is like "democraticlaly elected Nazi" or "democratically elected Islamist". It's usually the last election ever to take place without the secret police making sure everybody votes for dear leader.

your ignorance of the chilean situation is incredible.
your hatred is showing....

Gazpacho · 11th September 2011, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

Why do you hate America?

History hates America, apparently.

Sword_Of_Truth · 11th September 2011, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

your hatred is showing....

You're projecting again.

Skeptic · 11th September 2011, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

your hatred is showing....

Yes, you murder a few tens of millions of enemies of the people, and next thing you know, some folks just hate you for no reason.

Poor, misunderstood Marxism.

bikerdruid · 11th September 2011, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic

Yes, you murder a few tens of millions of enemies of the people, and next thing you know, some folks just hate you for no reason.

Poor, misunderstood Marxism.

you are confused...in chile it was pinochet who was the mass murderer.
your ignorance of the history is embarrassing you.

Gazpacho · 12th September 2011, 12:24 AM

Hey now, let's not be one-sided here. Let's hear the case for Pinochet.

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timhau · 12th September 2011, 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

you are confused...in chile it was pinochet who was the mass murderer.

As a mass murderer, Pinochet is a small fry. Heck, if he'd been a communist dictator, his human rights record would be at the top of the pack.

Yeah, he was a despicable bastard, but as far as despicable bastards go, he wasn't the Hitler 2.0 some people make him out to be.

angrysoba · 12th September 2011, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

let's not forget american nastiness on another sept 11...

http://ilovechile.cl/2011/09/09/sept...y-expect/30715
Since Salvador Allende became the first democratically-elected Marxist leader in Chile on Sept. 4, 1970 with 36.6 percent of the vote, years of investments in the economy were lost from the international community in response to Allende’s Communist ideas. Many Chilean people were dissastified with the government. The political environment was tense and talk of a coup by the hand of the Chilean Armed Forces was going on throughout the country.

The CIA and the U.S. government, motivated by communism hysteria with the Cuban Missile Crisis and losses in Vietnam, found a way to get involved and overthrow the newly-made Communist government without showing their hand. As these documents, released by the Freedom of Information Act show, they had been making plans, and providing arms and funds while creating contacts–particularly with Augusto Pinochet–to help in this endeavor.

Are there actually any newly declassified documents or are these the ones that had been declassified years ago? [This is a serious question not a rhetorical one.]

If they are not new then what we know of the coup against Allende is that technically the CIA and the US didn't overthrow him. I say technically, because it wasn't for want of trying.

The actual overthrow was made possible by the removal of the head military guy, Rene Schneider (sp.?) who the CIA appear to have formed a hit squad to have him "kidnapped" or well, taken care of in some form. Schneider was not a communist but had sworn to uphold the constitution of Chile and wouldn't order a coup.

He was assassinated by a group who turned out to be separate from the CIA's group.

As it turned out it wasn't until two years later that the coup finally occurred. Two years after the election.

I read an article recently in which new tests had been done on Allende to confirm that he had committed suicide during the coup attempt. There had been stories that he may have been killed by those perpetrating the coup.

Anyway, Pinochet was a **** and he killed lots of people by having them flown over the ocean and thrown out of the planes to their deaths.

Virus · 12th September 2011, 12:51 AM

John Pilger is a typical anti-West radical and supports Communist butchers like Fidel Castro and the North Vietnamese. He supported the Iraqi insurgency and Hezbollah. His beef with Pinochet was that he gored his ideological ox.

Gazpacho · 12th September 2011, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by Virus

John Pilger is a typical anti-West radical and supports Communist butchers like Fidel Castro and the North Vietnamese. He supported the Iraqi insurgency and Hezbollah. His beef with Pinochet was that he gored his ideological ox.

Why does your opinion of Pilger matter? He's not the one doing most of the talking.

angrysoba · 12th September 2011, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by Virus

John Pilger is a typical anti-West radical and supports Communist butchers like Fidel Castro and the North Vietnamese. He supported the Iraqi insurgency and Hezbollah. His beef with Pinochet was that he gored his ideological ox.

What's Pilger got to do with this?

mikeyx · 12th September 2011, 04:34 AM

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

let's not forget american nastiness on another sept 11...

http://ilovechile.cl/2011/09/09/sept...y-expect/30715
Since Salvador Allende became the first democratically-elected Marxist leader in Chile on Sept. 4, 1970 with 36.6 percent of the vote, years of investments in the economy were lost from the international community in response to Allende’s Communist ideas. Many Chilean people were dissastified with the government. The political environment was tense and talk of a coup by the hand of the Chilean Armed Forces was going on throughout the country.

The CIA and the U.S. government, motivated by communism hysteria with the Cuban Missile Crisis and losses in Vietnam, found a way to get involved and overthrow the newly-made Communist government without showing their hand. As these documents, released by the Freedom of Information Act show, they had been making plans, and providing arms and funds while creating contacts–particularly with Augusto Pinochet–to help in this endeavor.

While America reflects on the real 9/11 you always have to have that one hippie so and so that has to try to point to something crappy...

every....

single....

time....

Cleon · 12th September 2011, 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by mikeyx

While America reflects on the real 9/11

Help me out here. Why is one 9/11 "real" and the other one isn't?

ponderingturtle · 12th September 2011, 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by Cleon

Help me out here. Why is one 9/11 "real" and the other one isn't?

Because one should be 11/9?

Cleon · 12th September 2011, 05:35 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

Because one should be 11/9?

IDB87 · 12th September 2011, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

let's not forget american nastiness on another sept 11...

Yes BD, that certainly did happen on 9/11.

Do you believe the two events are analogous? Do you wish to point out the similarities between the Chilean coup and the Al-Qaeda suicide attacks?

I really don't want to believe that you did this in bad taste, so I'm open to hear what you think the relevance is.

bikerdruid · 12th September 2011, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by IDB87

Yes BD, that certainly did happen on 9/11.

Do you believe the two events are analogous? Do you wish to point out the similarities between the Chilean coup and the Al-Qaeda suicide attacks?

I really don't want to believe that you did this in bad taste, so I'm open to hear what you think the relevance is.

the american supported pinochet coup is an example of the deplorable foreign policy that inspired the events of 911 2001.

Pardalis · 12th September 2011, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

the american supported pinochet coup is an example of the deplorable foreign policy that inspired the events of 911 2001.

Pinochet wasn't mentioned in OBL's fatwas.

bikerdruid · 12th September 2011, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by Virus

John Pilger is a typical anti-West radical and supports Communist butchers like Fidel Castro and the North Vietnamese. He supported the Iraqi insurgency and Hezbollah. His beef with Pinochet was that he gored his ideological ox.

.......nothing about the many thousands that pinochet and his goons disappearred?

bikerdruid · 12th September 2011, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by mikeyx

While America reflects on the real 9/11 you always have to have that one hippie so and so that has to try to point to something crappy...

every....

single....

time....

the truth about america's inhumane foreign policies hurt, eh?

Checkmite · 12th September 2011, 09:45 AM

That says September 4, not September 11.

IDB87 · 12th September 2011, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

the american supported pinochet coup is an example of the deplorable foreign policy that inspired the events of 911 2001.

East Timor is a fine example here. We supported an Indonesian invasion of East Timor to stop communism, and then helped (rather underhandedly, sure) to transition rule back to East Timor. This latter involvement is one of the reasons why Bin Laden issued a fatwa condemning the United States.

So, damned if we do damned if we don't.

Osama Bin Laden on East Timor

*ETA

East Timor is mostly Christian, by the way.

IDB87 · 12th September 2011, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

the truth about america's inhumane foreign policies hurt, eh?

It tends to sting, yes. Especially when you do it (purposefully) to force humility on us, on a day in which many thousands of innocent Americans perished in suicide attacks on our civil society.

Especially considering the two events are not linked in any way.

OBL did not care about non-Muslims or communists, he cared about Muslims and Islamic rule, which is why the 2002 attacks on Bali occured- because of Australian and American involvement in the liberation of East Timor (A non-Muslim land that was annexed by a Muslim majority country.)

Kinda low, BD. Kinda real low.

D'rok · 12th September 2011, 10:24 AM

I'm all for strong criticism of militaristic foreign policy, American or otherwise (America is simply the current leader in that department), but this is getting ridiculous.

Not everything is America's fault, and it does much good in the world. Like it or not (and I don't like it at all), some of that good is a direct result of its militarism.

Skeptic · 12th September 2011, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by D'rok

Not everything is America's fault, and it does much good in the world.

For the likes of BD, everything is America's fault, and it is the cause of everything bad in the world; unlike, say, Iran.

bikerdruid · 12th September 2011, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic

For the likes of BD, everything is America's fault, and it is the cause of everything bad in the world; unlike, say, Iran.

not at all....i also think that israel is at fault in some of the world's ills.
i call 'em as i see 'em.

IDB87 · 12th September 2011, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

not at all....i also think that israel is at fault in some of the world's ills.
i call 'em as i see 'em.

What do you think of East Timor?

You should call that as you see it. It'd be interesting to see what your perspective is.

portlandatheist · 12th September 2011, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

the american supported pinochet coup is an example of the deplorable foreign policy that inspired the events of 911 2001.

Originally Posted by IDB87

East Timor is a fine example here. We supported an Indonesian invasion of East Timor to stop communism, and then helped (rather underhandedly, sure) to transition rule back to East Timor. This latter involvement is one of the reasons why Bin Laden issued a fatwa condemning the United States.

So, damned if we do damned if we don't.

Osama Bin Laden on East Timor

*ETA

East Timor is mostly Christian, by the way.

Bikerdruid, I thought you were a truther. If the attacks were an inside job, how in the world did our foreign policy "inspire" them to happen?
Would you also say that liberalism and multiculturalism "inspired" the terrorist attacks in Norway? What has "inspired" the more than 3,000 killed in the southern Thailand attacks? The Rajneesh attacks here in Oregon were "inspired" by Agricultural and range zoning laws. What "inspired" Timothy McVeigh?

The point here is that the grievances of terrorists are irrelevant and its a fools errand to try to solve the problem by addressing them (whether their grievances you happen to agree with or not). Its a kind of black mail and it doesn't pay to pay a blackmailer in the end.

bikerdruid · 12th September 2011, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

Bikerdruid, I thought you were a truther. If the attacks were an inside job, how in the world did our foreign policy "inspire" them to happen?
.

you assume a great deal.......
the attacks on 911 were carried out by foreign forces that hated american interference in their country and their lives.

bikerdruid · 12th September 2011, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by IDB87

What do you think of East Timor?

You should call that as you see it. It'd be interesting to see what your perspective is.

hey, they are bound to do something right once in a while.
that does not excuse american action in chilean domestic affairs.
this thread is about chile, not east timor.
feel free to start a thread .

D'rok · 12th September 2011, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

you assume a great deal.......
the attacks on 911 were carried out by foreign forces that hated american interference in their country and their lives.

Are you saying that the attacks were justified?

bikerdruid · 12th September 2011, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by D'rok

Are you saying that the attacks were justified?

did i say that?
motivation does not equal justification.

D'rok · 12th September 2011, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

did i say that?

No you didn't. That's why I asked.

Quote:

motivation does not equal justification.

I'll take that as a "no".

So what's the point with all the 9/11-based anti-Americanism? If they didn't deserve it and the attacks weren't justified, where are you going with all of this?

bikerdruid · 12th September 2011, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by D'rok

No you didn't. That's why I asked.
I'll take that as a "no".

So what's the point with all the 9/11-based anti-Americanism? If they didn't deserve it and the attacks weren't justified, where are you going with all of this?

this thread is about american involvement in the assassination of an elected leader, and the installation of a despotic murderous tyrant.
actions like this are the reason that america is hated in many places.

varwoche · 12th September 2011, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

your ignorance of the chilean situation is incredible.

Indeed.

Skeptic, instead of posting idiotic stuff like that, maybe you should check out the facts.

IDB87 · 12th September 2011, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

that does not excuse american action in chilean domestic affairs.

And no one is saying it does.

Quote:

this thread is about chile, not east timor.

Originally Posted by BikerDruid

the american supported pinochet coup is an example of the deplorable foreign policy that inspired the events of 911 2001.

A more direct example that inspired the events of 9/11 would be East Timor, and is on-topic as far as your posting in this thread goes. The United States (among others) helped to right the wrongs that were done in East Timor. For this, Bin Laden says, the U.S. can not be forgiven. East Timor is one of the top reasons for 9/11.

That train of thought is not grounded in reality.

To bring up Chile on a day that Western civil society was attacked, in an attempt to force humility on a nation in morning, and imply that we deserved the attack is quite low, even for you.

D'rok · 12th September 2011, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

this thread is about american involvement in the assassination of an elected leader, and the installation of a despotic murderous tyrant.
actions like this are the reason that america is hated in many places.

So what? Why are you tying it to 9/11?

11th September 2011, 01:02 PM	#1
bikerdruid hermit hippy weirdo Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: green island autonomous zone Posts: 7,369	Sept. 11 in Chile....an american shame. let's not forget american nastiness on another sept 11... http://ilovechile.cl/2011/09/09/sept...y-expect/30715 Since Salvador Allende became the first democratically-elected Marxist leader in Chile on Sept. 4, 1970 with 36.6 percent of the vote, years of investments in the economy were lost from the international community in response to Allende’s Communist ideas. Many Chilean people were dissastified with the government. The political environment was tense and talk of a coup by the hand of the Chilean Armed Forces was going on throughout the country. The CIA and the U.S. government, motivated by communism hysteria with the Cuban Missile Crisis and losses in Vietnam, found a way to get involved and overthrow the newly-made Communist government without showing their hand. As these documents, released by the Freedom of Information Act show, they had been making plans, and providing arms and funds while creating contacts–particularly with Augusto Pinochet–to help in this endeavor.
	__________________ Subvert the Dominant Paradigm!!

11th September 2011, 06:56 PM	#2
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,378	Why do you hate America? Did America take your lunch money or something?
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

11th September 2011, 09:35 PM	#3
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	Quote: Since Salvador Allende became the first democratically-elected Marxist leader "Democratically elected Marxist" is like "democraticlaly elected Nazi" or "democratically elected Islamist". It's usually the last election ever to take place without the secret police making sure everybody votes for dear leader. By the way, aren't you now admitting all those other Marxist countries were not actually democratically established? Strange, isn't it, for such a popular movement of the people? Nor do I see why you should care. You repeatedly say that elections don't matter. Why do they suddenly matter now to you?
	Last edited by Skeptic; 11th September 2011 at 09:41 PM.

11th September 2011, 09:42 PM	#4
bikerdruid hermit hippy weirdo Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: green island autonomous zone Posts: 7,369	Originally Posted by Skeptic "Democratically elected Marxist" is like "democraticlaly elected Nazi" or "democratically elected Islamist". It's usually the last election ever to take place without the secret police making sure everybody votes for dear leader. your ignorance of the chilean situation is incredible. your hatred is showing....
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11th September 2011, 10:39 PM	#8
bikerdruid hermit hippy weirdo Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: green island autonomous zone Posts: 7,369	Originally Posted by Skeptic Yes, you murder a few tens of millions of enemies of the people, and next thing you know, some folks just hate you for no reason. Poor, misunderstood Marxism. you are confused...in chile it was pinochet who was the mass murderer. your ignorance of the history is embarrassing you.
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11th September 2011, 09:45 PM	#5
Gazpacho Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Valley Lodge, USA Posts: 2,136	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor Why do you hate America? History hates America, apparently.

11th September 2011, 10:23 PM	#6
Sword_Of_Truth Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,497	Originally Posted by bikerdruid your hatred is showing.... You're projecting again.

11th September 2011, 10:32 PM	#7
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	Originally Posted by bikerdruid your hatred is showing.... Yes, you murder a few tens of millions of enemies of the people, and next thing you know, some folks just hate you for no reason. Poor, misunderstood Marxism.

12th September 2011, 12:38 AM	#10
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: East of Sweeden Posts: 9,755	Originally Posted by bikerdruid you are confused...in chile it was pinochet who was the mass murderer. As a mass murderer, Pinochet is a small fry. Heck, if he'd been a communist dictator, his human rights record would be at the top of the pack. Yeah, he was a despicable bastard, but as far as despicable bastards go, he wasn't the Hitler 2.0 some people make him out to be.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

12th September 2011, 12:46 AM	#11
angrysoba Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 8,887	Originally Posted by bikerdruid let's not forget american nastiness on another sept 11... http://ilovechile.cl/2011/09/09/sept...y-expect/30715 Since Salvador Allende became the first democratically-elected Marxist leader in Chile on Sept. 4, 1970 with 36.6 percent of the vote, years of investments in the economy were lost from the international community in response to Allende’s Communist ideas. Many Chilean people were dissastified with the government. The political environment was tense and talk of a coup by the hand of the Chilean Armed Forces was going on throughout the country. The CIA and the U.S. government, motivated by communism hysteria with the Cuban Missile Crisis and losses in Vietnam, found a way to get involved and overthrow the newly-made Communist government without showing their hand. As these documents, released by the Freedom of Information Act show, they had been making plans, and providing arms and funds while creating contacts–particularly with Augusto Pinochet–to help in this endeavor. Are there actually any newly declassified documents or are these the ones that had been declassified years ago? [This is a serious question not a rhetorical one.] If they are not new then what we know of the coup against Allende is that technically the CIA and the US didn't overthrow him. I say technically, because it wasn't for want of trying. The actual overthrow was made possible by the removal of the head military guy, Rene Schneider (sp.?) who the CIA appear to have formed a hit squad to have him "kidnapped" or well, taken care of in some form. Schneider was not a communist but had sworn to uphold the constitution of Chile and wouldn't order a coup. He was assassinated by a group who turned out to be separate from the CIA's group. As it turned out it wasn't until two years later that the coup finally occurred. Two years after the election. I read an article recently in which new tests had been done on Allende to confirm that he had committed suicide during the coup attempt. There had been stories that he may have been killed by those perpetrating the coup. Anyway, Pinochet was a **** and he killed lots of people by having them flown over the ocean and thrown out of the planes to their deaths.

12th September 2011, 12:51 AM	#12
Virus Master Templar Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 6,280	John Pilger is a typical anti-West radical and supports Communist butchers like Fidel Castro and the North Vietnamese. He supported the Iraqi insurgency and Hezbollah. His beef with Pinochet was that he gored his ideological ox.

12th September 2011, 12:57 AM	#13
Gazpacho Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Valley Lodge, USA Posts: 2,136	Originally Posted by Virus John Pilger is a typical anti-West radical and supports Communist butchers like Fidel Castro and the North Vietnamese. He supported the Iraqi insurgency and Hezbollah. His beef with Pinochet was that he gored his ideological ox. Why does your opinion of Pilger matter? He's not the one doing most of the talking.
	Last edited by Gazpacho; 12th September 2011 at 12:58 AM.

12th September 2011, 01:19 AM	#14
angrysoba Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 8,887	Originally Posted by Virus John Pilger is a typical anti-West radical and supports Communist butchers like Fidel Castro and the North Vietnamese. He supported the Iraqi insurgency and Hezbollah. His beef with Pinochet was that he gored his ideological ox. What's Pilger got to do with this?

12th September 2011, 04:34 AM	#15
mikeyx Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,570	Originally Posted by bikerdruid let's not forget american nastiness on another sept 11... http://ilovechile.cl/2011/09/09/sept...y-expect/30715 Since Salvador Allende became the first democratically-elected Marxist leader in Chile on Sept. 4, 1970 with 36.6 percent of the vote, years of investments in the economy were lost from the international community in response to Allende’s Communist ideas. Many Chilean people were dissastified with the government. The political environment was tense and talk of a coup by the hand of the Chilean Armed Forces was going on throughout the country. The CIA and the U.S. government, motivated by communism hysteria with the Cuban Missile Crisis and losses in Vietnam, found a way to get involved and overthrow the newly-made Communist government without showing their hand. As these documents, released by the Freedom of Information Act show, they had been making plans, and providing arms and funds while creating contacts–particularly with Augusto Pinochet–to help in this endeavor. While America reflects on the real 9/11 you always have to have that one hippie so and so that has to try to point to something crappy... every.... single.... time....
mikeyx Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,570

12th September 2011, 04:39 AM	#16
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,611	Originally Posted by mikeyx While America reflects on the real 9/11 Help me out here. Why is one 9/11 "real" and the other one isn't?
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

12th September 2011, 05:15 AM	#17
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,558	Originally Posted by Cleon Help me out here. Why is one 9/11 "real" and the other one isn't? Because one should be 11/9?
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

12th September 2011, 05:35 AM	#18
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,611	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle Because one should be 11/9?
	__________________ "People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich

12th September 2011, 08:41 AM	#19
IDB87 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: In the Grass Posts: 3,451	Originally Posted by bikerdruid let's not forget american nastiness on another sept 11... Yes BD, that certainly did happen on 9/11. Do you believe the two events are analogous? Do you wish to point out the similarities between the Chilean coup and the Al-Qaeda suicide attacks? I really don't want to believe that you did this in bad taste, so I'm open to hear what you think the relevance is.
	__________________ It's guaranteed I'm overreacting.

12th September 2011, 09:37 AM	#20
bikerdruid hermit hippy weirdo Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: green island autonomous zone Posts: 7,369	Originally Posted by IDB87 Yes BD, that certainly did happen on 9/11. Do you believe the two events are analogous? Do you wish to point out the similarities between the Chilean coup and the Al-Qaeda suicide attacks? I really don't want to believe that you did this in bad taste, so I'm open to hear what you think the relevance is. the american supported pinochet coup is an example of the deplorable foreign policy that inspired the events of 911 2001.
	__________________ Subvert the Dominant Paradigm!!

12th September 2011, 09:38 AM	#21
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 25,831	Originally Posted by bikerdruid the american supported pinochet coup is an example of the deplorable foreign policy that inspired the events of 911 2001. Pinochet wasn't mentioned in OBL's fatwas.

12th September 2011, 09:39 AM	#22
bikerdruid hermit hippy weirdo Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: green island autonomous zone Posts: 7,369	Originally Posted by Virus John Pilger is a typical anti-West radical and supports Communist butchers like Fidel Castro and the North Vietnamese. He supported the Iraqi insurgency and Hezbollah. His beef with Pinochet was that he gored his ideological ox. .......nothing about the many thousands that pinochet and his goons disappearred?
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12th September 2011, 09:40 AM	#23
bikerdruid hermit hippy weirdo Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: green island autonomous zone Posts: 7,369	Originally Posted by mikeyx While America reflects on the real 9/11 you always have to have that one hippie so and so that has to try to point to something crappy... every.... single.... time.... the truth about america's inhumane foreign policies hurt, eh?
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12th September 2011, 09:45 AM	#24
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Third in line Posts: 14,979	That says September 4, not September 11.

12th September 2011, 09:52 AM	#25
IDB87 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: In the Grass Posts: 3,451	Originally Posted by bikerdruid the american supported pinochet coup is an example of the deplorable foreign policy that inspired the events of 911 2001. East Timor is a fine example here. We supported an Indonesian invasion of East Timor to stop communism, and then helped (rather underhandedly, sure) to transition rule back to East Timor. This latter involvement is one of the reasons why Bin Laden issued a fatwa condemning the United States. So, damned if we do damned if we don't. Osama Bin Laden on East Timor *ETA East Timor is mostly Christian, by the way.
	__________________ It's guaranteed I'm overreacting. Last edited by IDB87; 12th September 2011 at 10:08 AM.

12th September 2011, 10:16 AM	#26
IDB87 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: In the Grass Posts: 3,451	Originally Posted by bikerdruid the truth about america's inhumane foreign policies hurt, eh? It tends to sting, yes. Especially when you do it (purposefully) to force humility on us, on a day in which many thousands of innocent Americans perished in suicide attacks on our civil society. Especially considering the two events are not linked in any way. OBL did not care about non-Muslims or communists, he cared about Muslims and Islamic rule, which is why the 2002 attacks on Bali occured- because of Australian and American involvement in the liberation of East Timor (A non-Muslim land that was annexed by a Muslim majority country.) Kinda low, BD. Kinda real low.
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12th September 2011, 10:24 AM	#27
D'rok Free Barbarian on The Land Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,250	I'm all for strong criticism of militaristic foreign policy, American or otherwise (America is simply the current leader in that department), but this is getting ridiculous. Not everything is America's fault, and it does much good in the world. Like it or not (and I don't like it at all), some of that good is a direct result of its militarism.
	__________________ "War exists within the continuum of politics, in which play is continuous, and no outcome is final, save for a global thermonuclear war, which might be." - Darth Rotor "Life, like a Saturday afternoon, finds its ruination in purpose." - MdC Last edited by D'rok; 12th September 2011 at 10:25 AM.

12th September 2011, 10:35 AM	#28
Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Behind the chessboard Posts: 18,361	Originally Posted by D'rok Not everything is America's fault, and it does much good in the world. For the likes of BD, everything is America's fault, and it is the cause of everything bad in the world; unlike, say, Iran.

12th September 2011, 10:42 AM	#29
bikerdruid hermit hippy weirdo Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: green island autonomous zone Posts: 7,369	Originally Posted by Skeptic For the likes of BD, everything is America's fault, and it is the cause of everything bad in the world; unlike, say, Iran. not at all....i also think that israel is at fault in some of the world's ills. i call 'em as i see 'em.
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12th September 2011, 10:44 AM	#30
IDB87 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: In the Grass Posts: 3,451	Originally Posted by bikerdruid not at all....i also think that israel is at fault in some of the world's ills. i call 'em as i see 'em. What do you think of East Timor? You should call that as you see it. It'd be interesting to see what your perspective is.
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12th September 2011, 10:44 AM	#31
portlandatheist Master Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,111	Originally Posted by bikerdruid the american supported pinochet coup is an example of the deplorable foreign policy that inspired the events of 911 2001. Originally Posted by IDB87 East Timor is a fine example here. We supported an Indonesian invasion of East Timor to stop communism, and then helped (rather underhandedly, sure) to transition rule back to East Timor. This latter involvement is one of the reasons why Bin Laden issued a fatwa condemning the United States. So, damned if we do damned if we don't. Osama Bin Laden on East Timor *ETA East Timor is mostly Christian, by the way. Bikerdruid, I thought you were a truther. If the attacks were an inside job, how in the world did our foreign policy "inspire" them to happen? Would you also say that liberalism and multiculturalism "inspired" the terrorist attacks in Norway? What has "inspired" the more than 3,000 killed in the southern Thailand attacks? The Rajneesh attacks here in Oregon were "inspired" by Agricultural and range zoning laws. What "inspired" Timothy McVeigh? The point here is that the grievances of terrorists are irrelevant and its a fools errand to try to solve the problem by addressing them (whether their grievances you happen to agree with or not). Its a kind of black mail and it doesn't pay to pay a blackmailer in the end.

12th September 2011, 10:47 AM	#32
bikerdruid hermit hippy weirdo Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: green island autonomous zone Posts: 7,369	Originally Posted by portlandatheist Bikerdruid, I thought you were a truther. If the attacks were an inside job, how in the world did our foreign policy "inspire" them to happen? . you assume a great deal....... the attacks on 911 were carried out by foreign forces that hated american interference in their country and their lives.
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12th September 2011, 10:49 AM	#33
bikerdruid hermit hippy weirdo Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: green island autonomous zone Posts: 7,369	Originally Posted by IDB87 What do you think of East Timor? You should call that as you see it. It'd be interesting to see what your perspective is. hey, they are bound to do something right once in a while. that does not excuse american action in chilean domestic affairs. this thread is about chile, not east timor. feel free to start a thread .
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12th September 2011, 10:58 AM	#35
bikerdruid hermit hippy weirdo Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: green island autonomous zone Posts: 7,369	Originally Posted by D'rok Are you saying that the attacks were justified? did i say that? motivation does not equal justification.
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12th September 2011, 11:00 AM	#36
D'rok Free Barbarian on The Land Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 6,250	Originally Posted by bikerdruid did i say that? No you didn't. That's why I asked. Quote: motivation does not equal justification. I'll take that as a "no". So what's the point with all the 9/11-based anti-Americanism? If they didn't deserve it and the attacks weren't justified, where are you going with all of this?
	__________________ "War exists within the continuum of politics, in which play is continuous, and no outcome is final, save for a global thermonuclear war, which might be." - Darth Rotor "Life, like a Saturday afternoon, finds its ruination in purpose." - MdC

12th September 2011, 11:05 AM	#37
bikerdruid hermit hippy weirdo Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: green island autonomous zone Posts: 7,369	Originally Posted by D'rok No you didn't. That's why I asked. I'll take that as a "no". So what's the point with all the 9/11-based anti-Americanism? If they didn't deserve it and the attacks weren't justified, where are you going with all of this? this thread is about american involvement in the assassination of an elected leader, and the installation of a despotic murderous tyrant. actions like this are the reason that america is hated in many places.
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