Photographs of burned bodies strapped to plane seats?

little grey rabbit · 12th September 2011, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Robbyn Swan, co-author of The Eleventh Day: The Full Story of 9/11 and Osama bin Laden, told the Guardian: "I invite anyone who believes that to talk to the many eyewitnesses who saw the plane approach and hit the Pentagon. I invite them to look, as I have done, at the absolutely horrific photographs of the burned bodies of the victims of flight 77 still strapped into their plane seats that were found amongst the ruins of the Pentagon."

Is this true - that bodies were found in the Pentagon still strapped to aircraft seats? Why was this not seen at Shanksville?

Or it is not true what was Robbyn Swan's motivations for saying this?

kookbreaker · 12th September 2011, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit

Is this true - that bodies were found in the Pentagon still strapped to aircraft seats? Why was this not seen at Shanksville?

Or it is not true what was Robbyn Swan's motivations for saying this?

Moussaoui trial evidence. Its online. Has been online since the trial ended.

Why are you so bad at this?

Dash80 · 12th September 2011, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit

Is this true - that bodies were found in the Pentagon still strapped to aircraft seats? Why was this not seen at Shanksville?

Or it is not true what was Robbyn Swan's motivations for saying this?

I have seen photos of burned bodies in the pentagon, and that they were plane passengers, but I don't think he meant completely intact seats anyway. There are also reports of body parts, torso parts with "belt-like straps" at the WTC.

There's a non-suspicious answer for Flight 93 of course. Most passengers were right at the front storming the cockpit and not even in their seats. A plane that burrowed many feet into the ground concentrating a lot of the force downward and not throwing the bodies clear.

sylvan8798 · 12th September 2011, 08:01 AM

It's not unusual in plane-crash-into-ground events for the body parts to be on the small side

.

Travis · 12th September 2011, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit

Is this true - that bodies were found in the Pentagon still strapped to aircraft seats? Why was this not seen at Shanksville?

Or it is not true what was Robbyn Swan's motivations for saying this?

High velocity impact at an obtuse angle vs a high velocity impact at an acute angle.

I assume you also ask why every baseball hit isn't a home run since the balls are being pitched fast and the batters swing hard.

leftysergeant · 12th September 2011, 12:00 PM

Not every passenger at the Pentagon struck an imoveable object. All of them at Shanksville did.

little grey rabbit · 13th September 2011, 03:40 AM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

Moussaoui trial evidence. Its online. Has been online since the trial ended.

Why are you so bad at this?

Thank you for your help, kookbreaker. There is really no need for your emotional response (although I do understand). I am not trying to convince you or indeed anybody that a missile and not a plane hit the pentagon (we have sufficient evidence of this, some in the public sphere and some not.)

What I am trying to delineate is the nature of the evidence that has been created.

As such the issue of the photos of bodies strapped to airline seats is fascinating - if they really exist.

A quick google reveals:

Quote:

Mark Willams: "When Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped into their seats. The stench of charred flesh overwhelmed him.

'It was the worst thing you can imagine,' said Williams, whose squad from Fort Belvoir, Va., entered the building, less than four hours after the terrorist attack. 'I wanted to cry from the minute I walked in. But I have soldiers under me and I had to put my feelings aside.' "Source

"I did see airplane seats and a corpse still strapped to one of the seats."
–Capt. Jim Ingledue, Virginia Beach Fire Dept. Source

But these are not photos, just claims by the usual suspects. Americans can generate this type of testimony by the bucket load. Photos would be a fascinating a further development.

More googling has left open the possibility that only photos of bodies (not necessarily strapped to airplane seats) were shown

Quote:

(AP) ALEXANDRIA, Va. Prosecutors seeking Zacarias Moussaoui's execution introduced gruesome evidence of the horrors of terrorism Tuesday showing pictures of burned and blackened bodies from the Sept. 11, 2001, attack on the Pentagon.

Over the objections of defense attorneys and despite warnings by a federal judge that such a strategy could backfire, government lawyers displayed for jurors the most gut-wrenching evidence yet in a sentencing trial studded with one horrific image after another.

The photos were of the attack at the Defense Department, very near where the jurors are sitting. Each picture was displayed for just a few seconds each. They showed mostly intact bodies with facial features still discernible. One torso, covered with white ash, looked more like an ancient statue.

OTOH, that last line is highly suggestive of another possible strategy.

It wouldnt be the first time the US military had resorted to such depths....
http://littlegreyrabbit.wordpress.co...cal-institute/

Any thoughts about relative fate of airline seats at Shanksville and the Pentagon? Perhaps there is a rule of physics saying airline seats are more likely to stay intact when a plane crashes into a confined space where lots of American military personal have exclusive access?

Dash80 · 13th September 2011, 03:55 AM

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit

Thank you for your help, kookbreaker. There is really no need for your emotional response (although I do understand). I am not trying to convince you or indeed anybody that a missile and not a plane hit the pentagon (we have sufficient evidence of this, some in the public sphere and some not.)

What I am trying to delineate is the nature of the evidence that has been created.

As such the issue of the photos of bodies strapped to airline seats is fascinating - if they really exist.

A quick google reveals:

But these are not photos, just claims by the usual suspects. Americans can generate this type of testimony by the bucket load. Photos would be a fascinating a further development.

More googling has left open the possibility that only photos of bodies (not necessarily strapped to airplane seats) were shown

OTOH, that last line is highly suggestive of another possible strategy.

It wouldnt be the first time the US military had resorted to such depths....
http://littlegreyrabbit.wordpress.co...cal-institute/

Any thoughts about relative fate of airline seats at Shanksville and the Pentagon? Perhaps there is a rule of physics saying airline seats are more likely to stay intact when a plane crashes into a confined space where lots of American military personal have exclusive access?

Here's an experiment to try rabbit. Throw yourself through a window (ground level on to grass maybe, not actually intending to kill you here). Then drop from a great height into soft earth (warning: this might actually kill you). I guarantee the ground will stop your momentum. You won't be blasted clear like you might if you were traveling in an open space. Which is essentially what the inside of the Pentagon (and the WTC) was, office space. Soft ground it may be but the earth won't move out of the way for you rabbit. While at the pentagon and wtc the momentum carried those body parts much further.

little grey rabbit · 13th September 2011, 03:59 AM

Originally Posted by Dash80

Here's an experiment to try rabbit. Throw yourself through a window (ground level on to grass maybe, not actually intending to kill you here). Then drop from a great height into soft earth (warning: this might actually kill you). I guarantee the ground will stop your momentum and leave you buried. You won't be blasted clear like you might if you were traveling in an open space. Which is essentially what the inside of the Pentagon (and the WTC) was, office space.

I am not sure how why this means airplane seats are more likely to stay intact - in fact I would have thought the reverse might be true.

Anyway I think I have made my point sufficiently in the fascinating difference in intactness of human remains where Pentagon officials have privileged access as opposed to where the hoi polloi can get a peek.

I am more interested in the nature of the photos shown at this trial. Are there any more specific descriptions out there?

Dash80 · 13th September 2011, 04:13 AM

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit

I am not sure how why this means airplane seats are more likely to stay intact - in fact I would have thought the reverse might be true.

Why are you having difficulty understanding this? The earth won't move out of the way, concentrating the blast. In the buildings there were things that would move and open space, this would carry debris further. Some things (and people) would have a better chance of being more intact. The force was dispersed over a wider area.

little grey rabbit · 13th September 2011, 04:17 AM

Originally Posted by Dash80

Why are you having difficulty understanding this? The earth won't move out of the way, concentrating the blast. In the buildings there were things that would move and open space, this would carry debris further. Some things (and people) would have a better chance of being more intact. The force was dispersed over a wider area.

You know I think even an eight year old girl could see through that nonsense...

Anyway back to the photographs of burnt corpses strapped to airline seats - any more specific descriptors of the Moussaoui trial evidence?

Dash80 · 13th September 2011, 04:31 AM

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit

You know I think even an eight year old girl could see through that nonsense...

Anyway back to the photographs of burnt corpses strapped to airline seats - any more specific descriptors of the Moussaoui trial evidence?

Ok lets try something else. Light Poles for example, can you think why many have breakaway bases, why there is more give in many of them? You crash into one that is much more resilient, it WILL do more damage.

little grey rabbit · 13th September 2011, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by Dash80

Ok lets try something else. Light Poles for example, can you think why many have breakaway bases, why there is more give in many of them? You crash into one that is much more resilient, it WILL do more damage.

Uh-huh

Now about those photos....

Dash80 · 13th September 2011, 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit

Uh-huh

Now about those photos....

What about them rabbit? You've been told how they're possible. Whats your point?

Craig4 · 13th September 2011, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit

Uh-huh

Now about those photos....

Why? There's no value in discussing it with you.

roger · 13th September 2011, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit

Anyway I think I have made my point sufficiently in the fascinating difference in intactness of human remains where Pentagon officials have privileged access as opposed to where the hoi polloi can get a peek.

That is extraordinarily, um, mistaken. Do you realize how many civilians work at the Pentagon? My company employs quite a few,and they were in the next office secton over from the crash. They walked through the office, seeing dead bodies everywhere (they were so close that the walls were blown out so they could see the after effects), out of the Pentagon, down the road to our main office, where they sat there in a daze, repeatedly mentioning all the burning bodies and parts.

little grey rabbit · 13th September 2011, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by roger

That is extraordinarily, um, mistaken. Do you realize how many civilians work at the Pentagon? My company employs quite a few,and they were in the next office secton over from the crash. They walked through the office, seeing dead bodies everywhere (they were so close that the walls were blown out so they could see the after effects), out of the Pentagon, down the road to our main office, where they sat there in a daze, repeatedly mentioning all the burning bodies and parts.

Well leaving aside the probability that you wouldn't be getting all that many contracts if you said anything else.....

No, I don't have idea about the Pentagon or the people who work in it. I have no dispute that the death toll of Pentagon is absolutely correct (OTOH nothing would surprise me when it comes to the Pentagon - simply I have no information to hand to dispute it).

But it is completely impossible for there to have been photographs of burned bodies strapped to airline seats. I trying to uncover if such photos actually exist - ie faked. Or if they are only a confusion between gossip about seeing bodies strapped to airline seats and the fact that photos of burned bodies being presented at a trial - which wouldn't involve fakery.

RCory · 13th September 2011, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit

I am not sure how why this means airplane seats are more likely to stay intact - in fact I would have thought the reverse might be true.

that line right there is truther "logic" in a nutshell. No evidence, no science, no facts. Just "I don't think that's what would happen."

and maybe this is the photgraph you're referring to...
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notable...n/P200045.html

AJM8125 · 13th September 2011, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit

Well leaving aside the probability that you wouldn't be getting all that many contracts if you said anything else....

That's almost a decent troll, but you stop short at really going over the top. I give it a 4/10.

JohnG · 13th September 2011, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit

You know I think even an eight year old girl could see through that nonsense...

The average eight year old girl is brighter and has more common sense than any Conspiracy Theorist I've ever run across.

JohnG · 13th September 2011, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit

But it is completely impossible for there to have been photographs of burned bodies strapped to airline seats. I trying to uncover if such photos actually exist - ie faked. Or if they are only a confusion between gossip about seeing bodies strapped to airline seats and the fact that photos of burned bodies being presented at a trial - which wouldn't involve fakery.

So...there are no photos of passengers strapped to their seats...but if there are the photos are faked?

We'll as long as you're keeping an open mind.

BStrong · 13th September 2011, 07:06 PM

Guys - I'm just an FNG here, but even I realize LGR is in the business of pulling chains and getting attention.

JohnG · 13th September 2011, 07:16 PM

I'm posting for the benefit of lurking Truthers. Both of them.

I know LGR is a troll. I think he thinks that pretending to be an idiot to get attention makes him superior to actual Conspiracy Theorists who crave just as much attention, only they aren't pretending.

Dash80 · 14th September 2011, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by JohnG

The average eight year old girl is brighter and has more common sense than any Conspiracy Theorist I've ever run across.

My daughter is eight and she understands 9/11 better than the truthers do. Her class made their own memorial, I was surprised how much she really understands when she talked about what they were doing.

little grey rabbit · 14th September 2011, 03:06 AM

Originally Posted by RCory

that line right there is truther "logic" in a nutshell. No evidence, no science, no facts. Just "I don't think that's what would happen."

and maybe this is the photgraph you're referring to...
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notable...n/P200045.html

Pfffft.

Well you can say what you like about Americans - and lets face it who doesn't? - never again will I say they don't have a dead-pan sense of humor

Dash80 · 14th September 2011, 04:17 AM

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit

Pfffft.

Well you can say what you like about Americans - and lets face it who doesn't? - never again will I say they don't have a dead-pan sense of humor

What is so funny about 3000 people dying so horribly? Please explain because i'm just not seeing it.

little grey rabbit · 14th September 2011, 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by Dash80

What is so funny about 3000 people dying so horribly? Please explain because i'm just not seeing it.

You keep saying this and I am getting a little bit tired of pointing out I have never said 3000 people dying horribly in New York is funny - any more than I think 10 000 people being fried by American bombs in Libya is noble.

Speaking of which

Quote:

AT a country fair there was a Buffoon who made all the people laugh by imitating the cries of various animals. He finished off by squeaking so like a pig that the spectators thought that he had a porker concealed about him. But a Countryman who stood by said: “Call that a pig’s squeak! Nothing like it. You give me till tomorrow and I will show you what it’s like.” The audience laughed, but next day, sure enough, the Countryman appeared on the stage, and putting his head down squealed so hideously that the spectators hissed and threw stones at him to make him stop. “You fools!” he cried, “see what you have been hissing,” and held up a little pig whose ear he had been pinching to make him utter the squeals.
“MEN OFTEN APPLAUD AN IMITATION AND HISS THE REAL THING.”

garethdjb · 14th September 2011, 04:53 AM

Originally Posted by JohnG

I'm posting for the benefit of lurking Truthers. Both of them.

I know LGR is a troll. I think he thinks that pretending to be an idiot to get attention makes him superior to actual Conspiracy Theorists who crave just as much attention, only they aren't pretending.

Littlegreyrabbi is certainly not pretending to be an idiot. . .

little grey rabbit · 14th September 2011, 05:09 AM

Originally Posted by garethdjb

Littlegreyrabbi is certainly not pretending to be an idiot. . .

Oh all right, Gareth, I'll play along.

Looking at that photo, it does seem in a pose suggestive of being a person sitting in airplane. Which of course means nothing, for example the bodies in Shanksville were supposedly pulverised - and despite the fascinating physics expertise on show here, we would be hardly be surprised by any configuration a person ended up in after high speed impact. So perhaps this *ahem* body is actually from a worker in the Pentagon?

Was this ...... identified as someone from the plane?

MRC_Hans · 14th September 2011, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit

Oh all right, Gareth, I'll play along.

Looking at that photo, it does seem in a pose suggestive of being a person sitting in airplane. Which of course means nothing, for example the bodies in Shanksville were supposedly pulverised - and despite the fascinating physics expertise on show here, we would be hardly be surprised by any configuration a person ended up in after high speed impact. So perhaps this *ahem* body is actually from a worker in the Pentagon?

Was this ...... identified as someone from the plane?

Nobody said it was. You asked for pictures of bodies from the court case, one was shown to you.

Here is a map of the locations of the body parts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fi...gon_Bodies.png

Hans

little grey rabbit · 14th September 2011, 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by MRC_Hans

Nobody said it was. You asked for pictures of bodies from the court case, one was shown to you.

Here is a map of the locations of the body parts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fi...gon_Bodies.png

Hans

No, I didn't. I very clearly asked about photos of bodies strapped into airplane seats - ie whether they existed, i wasn't really expecting them to be online. Although I am not in the slightest surprised that this one is.

Is this supposed to represent a person from the airplane? Come now, he/she must have been identified.

twinstead · 14th September 2011, 05:30 AM

I've never seen any pictures of bodies strapped to airplane seats. These are eye witness accounts, so one can take them or leave them. I don't know if pictures actually exist.

I, being rational, realize that the existence or non existence of these pictures is totally irrelevant to 9-11 being an inside job. LRG you can focus on this as long as you want; it's sure better than dealing with the evidence we both KNOW exists, right?

little grey rabbit · 14th September 2011, 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by twinstead

I've never seen any pictures of bodies strapped to airplane seats. These are eye witness accounts, so one can take them or leave them. I don't know if pictures actually exist.

I, being rational, realize that the existence or non existence of these pictures is totally irrelevant to 9-11 being an inside job. LRG you can focus on this as long as you want; it's sure better than dealing with the evidence we both KNOW exists, right?

Baby steps, twinstead, baby steps.

Is the photo linked to above supposed to represent someone from the airplane or not.

This surely must be known.

Sabrina · 14th September 2011, 05:38 AM

If it is, the person has already been identified and the remains given to the family members to be buried. Why not let them rest in peace? Why does it matter whether they were part of the Pentagon personnel or someone on the plane?

little grey rabbit · 14th September 2011, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by Sabrina

If it is, the person has already been identified and the remains given to the family members to be buried. Why not let them rest in peace? Why does it matter whether they were part of the Pentagon personnel or someone on the plane?

How on earth does asking if this photo is supposed to represent someone from the aeroplane disturb anyone's rest?

Can we just get an answer to a very simple question without this absurd hyperbolic shroud waving?

BenBurch · 14th September 2011, 05:42 AM

What is the point of the exercise in triviality?

twinstead · 14th September 2011, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit

Baby steps, twinstead, baby steps.

Is the photo linked to above supposed to represent someone from the airplane or not.

This surely must be known.

From what I can tell, it's a person who was in the Pentagon.

In your language, does "baby steps" mean "I'm going to continue to focus on irrelevant minutiae instead of looking at the preponderance of evidence"?

My trutherese is a little rusty.

twinstead · 14th September 2011, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

What is the point of the exercise in triviality?

It's a simple debate technique honed from many hours debating untenable positions. It's not about being right or proving your case, it's all about time spent debating.

Are you on the clock or something, LGR?

PixyMisa · 14th September 2011, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

What is the point of the exercise in triviality?

Not sure; your avatar is the most interesting thing in the thread.

little grey rabbit · 14th September 2011, 05:51 AM

Originally Posted by twinstead

From what I can tell, it's a person who was in the Pentagon.

In your language, does "baby steps" mean "I'm going to continue to focus on irrelevant minutiae instead of looking at the preponderance of evidence"?

My trutherese is a little rusty.

Would you like to reveal the basis of "what you can tell"?

And so we go back around wearingly in circles - are there photos of people strapped into aeroplane seats or identifiably from the aeroplane?

As it seems debunkers suddenly want to retreat from the one bravely presented above.

12th September 2011, 05:08 AM	#1
little grey rabbit Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,167	Photographs of burned bodies strapped to plane seats? Quote: Robbyn Swan, co-author of The Eleventh Day: The Full Story of 9/11 and Osama bin Laden, told the Guardian: "I invite anyone who believes that to talk to the many eyewitnesses who saw the plane approach and hit the Pentagon. I invite them to look, as I have done, at the absolutely horrific photographs of the burned bodies of the victims of flight 77 still strapped into their plane seats that were found amongst the ruins of the Pentagon." Is this true - that bodies were found in the Pentagon still strapped to aircraft seats? Why was this not seen at Shanksville? Or it is not true what was Robbyn Swan's motivations for saying this?

12th September 2011, 05:38 AM	#2
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	Originally Posted by little grey rabbit Is this true - that bodies were found in the Pentagon still strapped to aircraft seats? Why was this not seen at Shanksville? Or it is not true what was Robbyn Swan's motivations for saying this? Moussaoui trial evidence. Its online. Has been online since the trial ended. Why are you so bad at this?
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,177	__________________ Thanks for helping me win Best Children's Gifts and Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011 & 2012! Spectrum Scientifics - My store - Google it people!

12th September 2011, 05:38 AM	#3
Dash80 Blitzkrieg Bop Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Home Sweet Home Posts: 1,559	Originally Posted by little grey rabbit Is this true - that bodies were found in the Pentagon still strapped to aircraft seats? Why was this not seen at Shanksville? Or it is not true what was Robbyn Swan's motivations for saying this? I have seen photos of burned bodies in the pentagon, and that they were plane passengers, but I don't think he meant completely intact seats anyway. There are also reports of body parts, torso parts with "belt-like straps" at the WTC. There's a non-suspicious answer for Flight 93 of course. Most passengers were right at the front storming the cockpit and not even in their seats. A plane that burrowed many feet into the ground concentrating a lot of the force downward and not throwing the bodies clear.
	__________________ I see that the No-Planers still travel Air Elastic-Band with their fleet of innovative rubber Boeings. Last edited by Dash80; 12th September 2011 at 05:40 AM.

12th September 2011, 08:01 AM	#4
sylvan8798 Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,509	It's not unusual in plane-crash-into-ground events for the body parts to be on the small side .
	__________________ DoYouEverWonder - Engineers and architects don't have to design steel buildings not to collapse from gravity. They already conquered gravity when they built it.

12th September 2011, 10:49 AM	#5
Travis Misanthrope of the Mountains Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tuolumne City, CA Posts: 17,960	Originally Posted by little grey rabbit Is this true - that bodies were found in the Pentagon still strapped to aircraft seats? Why was this not seen at Shanksville? Or it is not true what was Robbyn Swan's motivations for saying this? High velocity impact at an obtuse angle vs a high velocity impact at an acute angle. I assume you also ask why every baseball hit isn't a home run since the balls are being pitched fast and the batters swing hard.
	__________________ "Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com Zingiber Officinale The Humor blog of some not crazy guy

12th September 2011, 12:00 PM	#6
leftysergeant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spanaway WA Posts: 18,613	Not every passenger at the Pentagon struck an imoveable object. All of them at Shanksville did.
	__________________ No civilization ever collapsed because the poor had too much to eat.

13th September 2011, 03:40 AM	#7
little grey rabbit Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,167	Originally Posted by kookbreaker Moussaoui trial evidence. Its online. Has been online since the trial ended. Why are you so bad at this? Thank you for your help, kookbreaker. There is really no need for your emotional response (although I do understand). I am not trying to convince you or indeed anybody that a missile and not a plane hit the pentagon (we have sufficient evidence of this, some in the public sphere and some not.) What I am trying to delineate is the nature of the evidence that has been created. As such the issue of the photos of bodies strapped to airline seats is fascinating - if they really exist. A quick google reveals: Quote: Mark Willams: "When Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped into their seats. The stench of charred flesh overwhelmed him. 'It was the worst thing you can imagine,' said Williams, whose squad from Fort Belvoir, Va., entered the building, less than four hours after the terrorist attack. 'I wanted to cry from the minute I walked in. But I have soldiers under me and I had to put my feelings aside.' "Source "I did see airplane seats and a corpse still strapped to one of the seats." –Capt. Jim Ingledue, Virginia Beach Fire Dept. Source But these are not photos, just claims by the usual suspects. Americans can generate this type of testimony by the bucket load. Photos would be a fascinating a further development. More googling has left open the possibility that only photos of bodies (not necessarily strapped to airplane seats) were shown Quote: (AP) ALEXANDRIA, Va. Prosecutors seeking Zacarias Moussaoui's execution introduced gruesome evidence of the horrors of terrorism Tuesday showing pictures of burned and blackened bodies from the Sept. 11, 2001, attack on the Pentagon. Over the objections of defense attorneys and despite warnings by a federal judge that such a strategy could backfire, government lawyers displayed for jurors the most gut-wrenching evidence yet in a sentencing trial studded with one horrific image after another. The photos were of the attack at the Defense Department, very near where the jurors are sitting. Each picture was displayed for just a few seconds each. They showed mostly intact bodies with facial features still discernible. One torso, covered with white ash, looked more like an ancient statue. OTOH, that last line is highly suggestive of another possible strategy. It wouldnt be the first time the US military had resorted to such depths.... http://littlegreyrabbit.wordpress.co...cal-institute/ Any thoughts about relative fate of airline seats at Shanksville and the Pentagon? Perhaps there is a rule of physics saying airline seats are more likely to stay intact when a plane crashes into a confined space where lots of American military personal have exclusive access?

13th September 2011, 03:55 AM	#8
Dash80 Blitzkrieg Bop Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Home Sweet Home Posts: 1,559	Originally Posted by little grey rabbit Thank you for your help, kookbreaker. There is really no need for your emotional response (although I do understand). I am not trying to convince you or indeed anybody that a missile and not a plane hit the pentagon (we have sufficient evidence of this, some in the public sphere and some not.) What I am trying to delineate is the nature of the evidence that has been created. As such the issue of the photos of bodies strapped to airline seats is fascinating - if they really exist. A quick google reveals: But these are not photos, just claims by the usual suspects. Americans can generate this type of testimony by the bucket load. Photos would be a fascinating a further development. More googling has left open the possibility that only photos of bodies (not necessarily strapped to airplane seats) were shown OTOH, that last line is highly suggestive of another possible strategy. It wouldnt be the first time the US military had resorted to such depths.... http://littlegreyrabbit.wordpress.co...cal-institute/ Any thoughts about relative fate of airline seats at Shanksville and the Pentagon? Perhaps there is a rule of physics saying airline seats are more likely to stay intact when a plane crashes into a confined space where lots of American military personal have exclusive access? Here's an experiment to try rabbit. Throw yourself through a window (ground level on to grass maybe, not actually intending to kill you here). Then drop from a great height into soft earth (warning: this might actually kill you). I guarantee the ground will stop your momentum. You won't be blasted clear like you might if you were traveling in an open space. Which is essentially what the inside of the Pentagon (and the WTC) was, office space. Soft ground it may be but the earth won't move out of the way for you rabbit. While at the pentagon and wtc the momentum carried those body parts much further.
	__________________ I see that the No-Planers still travel Air Elastic-Band with their fleet of innovative rubber Boeings. Last edited by Dash80; 13th September 2011 at 04:01 AM.

13th September 2011, 03:59 AM	#9
little grey rabbit Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,167	Originally Posted by Dash80 Here's an experiment to try rabbit. Throw yourself through a window (ground level on to grass maybe, not actually intending to kill you here). Then drop from a great height into soft earth (warning: this might actually kill you). I guarantee the ground will stop your momentum and leave you buried. You won't be blasted clear like you might if you were traveling in an open space. Which is essentially what the inside of the Pentagon (and the WTC) was, office space. I am not sure how why this means airplane seats are more likely to stay intact - in fact I would have thought the reverse might be true. Anyway I think I have made my point sufficiently in the fascinating difference in intactness of human remains where Pentagon officials have privileged access as opposed to where the hoi polloi can get a peek. I am more interested in the nature of the photos shown at this trial. Are there any more specific descriptions out there?

13th September 2011, 04:13 AM	#10
Dash80 Blitzkrieg Bop Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Home Sweet Home Posts: 1,559	Originally Posted by little grey rabbit I am not sure how why this means airplane seats are more likely to stay intact - in fact I would have thought the reverse might be true. Why are you having difficulty understanding this? The earth won't move out of the way, concentrating the blast. In the buildings there were things that would move and open space, this would carry debris further. Some things (and people) would have a better chance of being more intact. The force was dispersed over a wider area.
	__________________ I see that the No-Planers still travel Air Elastic-Band with their fleet of innovative rubber Boeings.

13th September 2011, 04:17 AM	#11
little grey rabbit Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,167	Originally Posted by Dash80 Why are you having difficulty understanding this? The earth won't move out of the way, concentrating the blast. In the buildings there were things that would move and open space, this would carry debris further. Some things (and people) would have a better chance of being more intact. The force was dispersed over a wider area. You know I think even an eight year old girl could see through that nonsense... Anyway back to the photographs of burnt corpses strapped to airline seats - any more specific descriptors of the Moussaoui trial evidence?

13th September 2011, 04:31 AM	#12
Dash80 Blitzkrieg Bop Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Home Sweet Home Posts: 1,559	Originally Posted by little grey rabbit You know I think even an eight year old girl could see through that nonsense... Anyway back to the photographs of burnt corpses strapped to airline seats - any more specific descriptors of the Moussaoui trial evidence? Ok lets try something else. Light Poles for example, can you think why many have breakaway bases, why there is more give in many of them? You crash into one that is much more resilient, it WILL do more damage.
	__________________ I see that the No-Planers still travel Air Elastic-Band with their fleet of innovative rubber Boeings.

13th September 2011, 04:35 AM	#13
little grey rabbit Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,167	Originally Posted by Dash80 Ok lets try something else. Light Poles for example, can you think why many have breakaway bases, why there is more give in many of them? You crash into one that is much more resilient, it WILL do more damage. Uh-huh Now about those photos....

13th September 2011, 04:42 AM	#14
Dash80 Blitzkrieg Bop Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Home Sweet Home Posts: 1,559	Originally Posted by little grey rabbit Uh-huh Now about those photos.... What about them rabbit? You've been told how they're possible. Whats your point?
	__________________ I see that the No-Planers still travel Air Elastic-Band with their fleet of innovative rubber Boeings.

13th September 2011, 11:29 AM	#15
Craig4 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 5,363	Originally Posted by little grey rabbit Uh-huh Now about those photos.... Why? There's no value in discussing it with you.
Craig4 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 5,363

13th September 2011, 12:11 PM	#16
roger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA Posts: 11,021	Originally Posted by little grey rabbit Anyway I think I have made my point sufficiently in the fascinating difference in intactness of human remains where Pentagon officials have privileged access as opposed to where the hoi polloi can get a peek. That is extraordinarily, um, mistaken. Do you realize how many civilians work at the Pentagon? My company employs quite a few,and they were in the next office secton over from the crash. They walked through the office, seeing dead bodies everywhere (they were so close that the walls were blown out so they could see the after effects), out of the Pentagon, down the road to our main office, where they sat there in a daze, repeatedly mentioning all the burning bodies and parts.
	__________________ May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves. - John Muir

13th September 2011, 04:33 PM	#17
little grey rabbit Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,167	Originally Posted by roger That is extraordinarily, um, mistaken. Do you realize how many civilians work at the Pentagon? My company employs quite a few,and they were in the next office secton over from the crash. They walked through the office, seeing dead bodies everywhere (they were so close that the walls were blown out so they could see the after effects), out of the Pentagon, down the road to our main office, where they sat there in a daze, repeatedly mentioning all the burning bodies and parts. Well leaving aside the probability that you wouldn't be getting all that many contracts if you said anything else..... No, I don't have idea about the Pentagon or the people who work in it. I have no dispute that the death toll of Pentagon is absolutely correct (OTOH nothing would surprise me when it comes to the Pentagon - simply I have no information to hand to dispute it). But it is completely impossible for there to have been photographs of burned bodies strapped to airline seats. I trying to uncover if such photos actually exist - ie faked. Or if they are only a confusion between gossip about seeing bodies strapped to airline seats and the fact that photos of burned bodies being presented at a trial - which wouldn't involve fakery.

13th September 2011, 06:31 PM	#18
RCory Student Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 43	Originally Posted by little grey rabbit I am not sure how why this means airplane seats are more likely to stay intact - in fact I would have thought the reverse might be true. that line right there is truther "logic" in a nutshell. No evidence, no science, no facts. Just "I don't think that's what would happen." and maybe this is the photgraph you're referring to... http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notable...n/P200045.html
RCory Student Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 43

13th September 2011, 06:54 PM	#19
AJM8125 NWO Black Ops Tagger Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: **** Creek, California Posts: 15,255	Originally Posted by little grey rabbit Well leaving aside the probability that you wouldn't be getting all that many contracts if you said anything else.... That's almost a decent troll, but you stop short at really going over the top. I give it a 4/10.

13th September 2011, 06:56 PM	#20
JohnG Pedantic Bore Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Abandon All Hope Posts: 4,398	Originally Posted by little grey rabbit You know I think even an eight year old girl could see through that nonsense... The average eight year old girl is brighter and has more common sense than any Conspiracy Theorist I've ever run across.
	__________________ Do not weep. Do not wax indignant. Understand. - Baruch Spinoza You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -Harlan Ellison

13th September 2011, 06:58 PM	#21
JohnG Pedantic Bore Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Abandon All Hope Posts: 4,398	Originally Posted by little grey rabbit But it is completely impossible for there to have been photographs of burned bodies strapped to airline seats. I trying to uncover if such photos actually exist - ie faked. Or if they are only a confusion between gossip about seeing bodies strapped to airline seats and the fact that photos of burned bodies being presented at a trial - which wouldn't involve fakery. So...there are no photos of passengers strapped to their seats...but if there are the photos are faked? We'll as long as you're keeping an open mind.
	__________________ Do not weep. Do not wax indignant. Understand. - Baruch Spinoza You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -Harlan Ellison

13th September 2011, 07:06 PM	#22
BStrong Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: California Posts: 3,829	Guys - I'm just an FNG here, but even I realize LGR is in the business of pulling chains and getting attention.

13th September 2011, 07:16 PM	#23
JohnG Pedantic Bore Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Abandon All Hope Posts: 4,398	I'm posting for the benefit of lurking Truthers. Both of them. I know LGR is a troll. I think he thinks that pretending to be an idiot to get attention makes him superior to actual Conspiracy Theorists who crave just as much attention, only they aren't pretending.
	__________________ Do not weep. Do not wax indignant. Understand. - Baruch Spinoza You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -Harlan Ellison

14th September 2011, 12:11 AM	#24
Dash80 Blitzkrieg Bop Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Home Sweet Home Posts: 1,559	Originally Posted by JohnG The average eight year old girl is brighter and has more common sense than any Conspiracy Theorist I've ever run across. My daughter is eight and she understands 9/11 better than the truthers do. Her class made their own memorial, I was surprised how much she really understands when she talked about what they were doing.
	__________________ I see that the No-Planers still travel Air Elastic-Band with their fleet of innovative rubber Boeings.

14th September 2011, 03:06 AM	#25
little grey rabbit Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,167	Originally Posted by RCory that line right there is truther "logic" in a nutshell. No evidence, no science, no facts. Just "I don't think that's what would happen." and maybe this is the photgraph you're referring to... http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notable...n/P200045.html Pfffft. Well you can say what you like about Americans - and lets face it who doesn't? - never again will I say they don't have a dead-pan sense of humor

14th September 2011, 04:17 AM	#26
Dash80 Blitzkrieg Bop Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Home Sweet Home Posts: 1,559	Originally Posted by little grey rabbit Pfffft. Well you can say what you like about Americans - and lets face it who doesn't? - never again will I say they don't have a dead-pan sense of humor What is so funny about 3000 people dying so horribly? Please explain because i'm just not seeing it.
	__________________ I see that the No-Planers still travel Air Elastic-Band with their fleet of innovative rubber Boeings.

14th September 2011, 04:23 AM	#27
little grey rabbit Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,167	Originally Posted by Dash80 What is so funny about 3000 people dying so horribly? Please explain because i'm just not seeing it. You keep saying this and I am getting a little bit tired of pointing out I have never said 3000 people dying horribly in New York is funny - any more than I think 10 000 people being fried by American bombs in Libya is noble. Speaking of which Quote: AT a country fair there was a Buffoon who made all the people laugh by imitating the cries of various animals. He finished off by squeaking so like a pig that the spectators thought that he had a porker concealed about him. But a Countryman who stood by said: “Call that a pig’s squeak! Nothing like it. You give me till tomorrow and I will show you what it’s like.” The audience laughed, but next day, sure enough, the Countryman appeared on the stage, and putting his head down squealed so hideously that the spectators hissed and threw stones at him to make him stop. “You fools!” he cried, “see what you have been hissing,” and held up a little pig whose ear he had been pinching to make him utter the squeals. “MEN OFTEN APPLAUD AN IMITATION AND HISS THE REAL THING.”

14th September 2011, 04:53 AM	#28
garethdjb Muse Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 639	Originally Posted by JohnG I'm posting for the benefit of lurking Truthers. Both of them. I know LGR is a troll. I think he thinks that pretending to be an idiot to get attention makes him superior to actual Conspiracy Theorists who crave just as much attention, only they aren't pretending. Littlegreyrabbi is certainly not pretending to be an idiot. . .
garethdjb Muse Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 639	__________________ " It's a cheerful philosophy and I've heard it from people before... they're all dead now though" - Sandy

14th September 2011, 05:09 AM	#29
little grey rabbit Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,167	Originally Posted by garethdjb Littlegreyrabbi is certainly not pretending to be an idiot. . . Oh all right, Gareth, I'll play along. Looking at that photo, it does seem in a pose suggestive of being a person sitting in airplane. Which of course means nothing, for example the bodies in Shanksville were supposedly pulverised - and despite the fascinating physics expertise on show here, we would be hardly be surprised by any configuration a person ended up in after high speed impact. So perhaps this ahem body is actually from a worker in the Pentagon? Was this ...... identified as someone from the plane?

14th September 2011, 05:21 AM	#30
MRC_Hans Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Whithin earshot of the North Sea Posts: 16,602	Originally Posted by little grey rabbit Oh all right, Gareth, I'll play along. Looking at that photo, it does seem in a pose suggestive of being a person sitting in airplane. Which of course means nothing, for example the bodies in Shanksville were supposedly pulverised - and despite the fascinating physics expertise on show here, we would be hardly be surprised by any configuration a person ended up in after high speed impact. So perhaps this ahem body is actually from a worker in the Pentagon? Was this ...... identified as someone from the plane? Nobody said it was. You asked for pictures of bodies from the court case, one was shown to you. Here is a map of the locations of the body parts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fi...gon_Bodies.png Hans
	__________________ Don't. Just don't.

14th September 2011, 05:26 AM	#31
little grey rabbit Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,167	Originally Posted by MRC_Hans Nobody said it was. You asked for pictures of bodies from the court case, one was shown to you. Here is a map of the locations of the body parts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fi...gon_Bodies.png Hans No, I didn't. I very clearly asked about photos of bodies strapped into airplane seats - ie whether they existed, i wasn't really expecting them to be online. Although I am not in the slightest surprised that this one is. Is this supposed to represent a person from the airplane? Come now, he/she must have been identified.
	Last edited by little grey rabbit; 14th September 2011 at 05:27 AM.

14th September 2011, 05:30 AM	#32
twinstead Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Big corner office in NWO Towers Posts: 11,578	I've never seen any pictures of bodies strapped to airplane seats. These are eye witness accounts, so one can take them or leave them. I don't know if pictures actually exist. I, being rational, realize that the existence or non existence of these pictures is totally irrelevant to 9-11 being an inside job. LRG you can focus on this as long as you want; it's sure better than dealing with the evidence we both KNOW exists, right?
	__________________ You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison

14th September 2011, 05:34 AM	#33
little grey rabbit Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,167	Originally Posted by twinstead I've never seen any pictures of bodies strapped to airplane seats. These are eye witness accounts, so one can take them or leave them. I don't know if pictures actually exist. I, being rational, realize that the existence or non existence of these pictures is totally irrelevant to 9-11 being an inside job. LRG you can focus on this as long as you want; it's sure better than dealing with the evidence we both KNOW exists, right? Baby steps, twinstead, baby steps. Is the photo linked to above supposed to represent someone from the airplane or not. This surely must be known.

14th September 2011, 05:38 AM	#34
Sabrina Wicked Lovely Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Spinning through space Posts: 6,873	If it is, the person has already been identified and the remains given to the family members to be buried. Why not let them rest in peace? Why does it matter whether they were part of the Pentagon personnel or someone on the plane?
	__________________ "Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is the right thing to do."-Justice Potter Stewart, US Supreme Court Justice 1915-1985 *Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons... for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup.* *Sins are very desirable... as long as no one judges you for them.*

14th September 2011, 05:42 AM	#35
little grey rabbit Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,167	Originally Posted by Sabrina If it is, the person has already been identified and the remains given to the family members to be buried. Why not let them rest in peace? Why does it matter whether they were part of the Pentagon personnel or someone on the plane? How on earth does asking if this photo is supposed to represent someone from the aeroplane disturb anyone's rest? Can we just get an answer to a very simple question without this absurd hyperbolic shroud waving?