Autopsy Examiners

citytom · 9th March 2003, 08:43 AM

Wanted: Medical/autopsy examiners or those who know!

Hulda Clark is a naturopath who makes the extraordinary claim that ALL CANCERS ARE CAUSED BY 'FLUKES' IN THE LIVER!!!
A "fluke" is a parsite that can be readily seen with the human eye.

I think that "ALL CANCERS ARE CAUSED BY FLUKES" is an absurd notion. If true, all cancer victims would have their livers infested with flukes. When an autopsy is done on a cancer victim, would not the flukes be seen? Would the flukes be observed by examiners even though they are not looking for flukes? Are flukes normally or ever found in the liver? I would think that if what she says is true, that these critters would already have been found in ALL cancer victims and parasitologists would be working on this.

confused

Goshawk · 9th March 2003, 12:47 PM

No, it is most emphatically not true.

She's a world-class woowoo--we're talking major-league loonie here.

Hulda speaks.
http://www.drhuldaclark.org/ailments_Cancer.asp

Quote:

...For many years we have all believed that cancer is different from other diseases. We believed that cancer behaves like a fire, in that you can't stop it once it has started. Therefore, you have to cut it out or radiate it to death or chemically destroy every cancerous cell in the body since it can never become normal again. NOTHING COULD BE MORE WRONG! And we have believed that cancers of different types such as leukemia or breast cancer have different causes. Wrong again!

In this book you will see that all cancers are alike. They are all caused by a parasite. A single parasite! It is the human intestinal fluke. And if you kill this parasite, the cancer stops immediately. The tissue becomes normal again. In order to get cancer, you must have this parasite.

How can the human intestinal fluke cause cancer? This parasite typically lives in the intestine where it might do little harm, causing only colitis, Crohn's disease, or irritable bowel syndrome, or perhaps nothing at all. But if it invades a different organ, like the uterus or the kidneys or liver, it does a great deal of harm. If it establishes itself in the liver, it causes cancer! It only establishes itself in the liver in some people. These people have isopropyl alcohol in their bodies.

All cancer patients have both isopropyl alcohol and the intestinal fluke in their livers. The solvent, isopropyl alcohol, is responsible for letting the fluke establish itself in the liver. In order to get cancer, you must have both the parasite and isopropyl alcohol in your body.

There's lots more, but that's enough for now.

Huge Quackwatch article, with many many links at the bottom, debunking her. Settle in for a long fascinating read.
http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cer/clark.html

Bottom line--she's a total quack.

citytom · 9th March 2003, 03:07 PM

Thanks for the Quackwatch website referral. I've been there.
The strongest statement Quackwatch made specifically about finding flukes in the victims of Cancer was that, over all this time, it would have been reported by those who do autopsies.
Sounds logical to me, but to help convince my friend, I need to hear from someone who does autopsies (or someone who otherwise knows).

I also checked other links and could not find any statement specifically indicating whether flukes are found in cancer victims at time of autopsy, whether they could be missed if not looked for, or basically anyone who knows of a study that looked for flukes in cancer victims to prove that Hulda's theory is just plain crazy.
Know of any?
Thanks.

PixyMisa · 9th March 2003, 03:12 PM

Well, I doubt there's a study looking for liver flukes in cancer victims. Or a study looking for death-watch beetle in stroke victims. It's hard to get funding for things that are as silly as that.

Oncomice are genetically engineered mice that are predisposed to develop cancer. No liver flukes are needed.

The Central Scrutinizer · 9th March 2003, 05:44 PM

I have several flukes in my brain. Is that a problem??

Goshawk · 10th March 2003, 07:59 AM

The logical people to notice liver flukes would be someone doing autopsies of liver cancer patients.

I don't see it mentioned here.
http://www.foxriverwatch.com/liver_h...r_pcbs_1b.html

Or here.
http://www.cam.gl/engelsk/inussuk/2h...ld/004_19.html

Or here, either.
http://hepatitis-central.com/hcv/liver/cancer/risk.html

If your friend needs to have an actual forensic pathologist tell him, "I've autopsied hundreds of cadavers and I've never seen liver flukes in a cancer patient" before he'll believe you, you may have to wait a long time, as I don't think there are many forensic pathologists hanging out at JREF.

tim · 10th March 2003, 11:52 AM

Wow!
Does this mean I can take up smoking again? And drinking a bottle a day? And not worry about carcenogens? (if that's how you spell it). And will I live forever? Nah!

11th March 2003, 08:12 PM

I don't perform autopsies but I do, on occasion, collect samples of tissue from tumour-affected and normal tissues from cancer patients. I can assure you flukes are not a feature either of the tumours themselves or their livers.

You can also generate tumours in mice using human tumour cells and as said previously, no flukes are required.

edthedoc · 12th March 2003, 04:40 AM

Quack quack quack.

Dr Clark would like us believe that the site http://www.drhuldaclark.org/ has nothing to do with her. Her own site http://huldaclark.net/ is a much more mundane thing.

How can we find out more about her medical credentials? Is she even a qualified medical doctor? If so, who on earth monitors the work she does?

The stuff about liver flukes is complete and utter nonsense.

Goshawk · 12th March 2003, 01:31 PM

From the Quackwatch article.

http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cer/clark.html

Quote:

Hulda Regehr Clark...describes herself as an "independent research scientist" with bachelor and master's degrees from the University of Saskatchewan and a Ph.D. degree in physiology from the University of Minnesota (1958). She also lists a naturopathic (N.D.) degree from the Clayton College of Natural Health. Clayton is a nonaccredited correspondence school founded in 1980 and located in Birmingham Alabama. In 1985, when this school was called Dr. Clayton's School of Natural Healing, its "Doctor of Naturopathy" course was described in a magazine article as a "100-hour course" for which the tuition was $695.

And she "practices" in Tijuana, Mexico, where she's beyond the reach of the Feds.

Agammamon · 13th March 2003, 12:47 PM

Anyone with Isopropyl Alcohol in their system has far greater problems than flukes and cancer. That is what rubbing alcohol is and it can be a fairly potent poison when ingested.

9th March 2003, 08:43 AM	#1
citytom Scholar Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 86	Autopsy Examiners Wanted: Medical/autopsy examiners or those who know! Hulda Clark is a naturopath who makes the extraordinary claim that ALL CANCERS ARE CAUSED BY 'FLUKES' IN THE LIVER!!! A "fluke" is a parsite that can be readily seen with the human eye. I think that "ALL CANCERS ARE CAUSED BY FLUKES" is an absurd notion. If true, all cancer victims would have their livers infested with flukes. When an autopsy is done on a cancer victim, would not the flukes be seen? Would the flukes be observed by examiners even though they are not looking for flukes? Are flukes normally or ever found in the liver? I would think that if what she says is true, that these critters would already have been found in ALL cancer victims and parasitologists would be working on this. confused

9th March 2003, 03:07 PM	#3
citytom Scholar Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 86	Hulda Clark Thanks for the Quackwatch website referral. I've been there. The strongest statement Quackwatch made specifically about finding flukes in the victims of Cancer was that, over all this time, it would have been reported by those who do autopsies. Sounds logical to me, but to help convince my friend, I need to hear from someone who does autopsies (or someone who otherwise knows). I also checked other links and could not find any statement specifically indicating whether flukes are found in cancer victims at time of autopsy, whether they could be missed if not looked for, or basically anyone who knows of a study that looked for flukes in cancer victims to prove that Hulda's theory is just plain crazy. Know of any? Thanks.

9th March 2003, 03:12 PM	#4
PixyMisa Persnickety Insect Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sunny Munuvia Posts: 14,906	Well, I doubt there's a study looking for liver flukes in cancer victims. Or a study looking for death-watch beetle in stroke victims. It's hard to get funding for things that are as silly as that. Oncomice are genetically engineered mice that are predisposed to develop cancer. No liver flukes are needed.
	__________________ Free blogs for skeptics... And everyone else. mee.nu What, in the Holy Name of Gzortch, are you people doing?!?!!? - TGHO

9th March 2003, 05:44 PM	#5
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,264	I have several flukes in my brain. Is that a problem??
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

11th March 2003, 08:12 PM	#8
spoonhandler Guest Posts: n/a	I don't perform autopsies but I do, on occasion, collect samples of tissue from tumour-affected and normal tissues from cancer patients. I can assure you flukes are not a feature either of the tumours themselves or their livers. You can also generate tumours in mice using human tumour cells and as said previously, no flukes are required.
spoonhandler Guest Posts: n/a

9th March 2003, 12:47 PM	#2
Goshawk Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Decatur, Illinois, USA Posts: 1,453	No, it is most emphatically not true. She's a world-class woowoo--we're talking major-league loonie here. Hulda speaks. http://www.drhuldaclark.org/ailments_Cancer.asp Quote: ...For many years we have all believed that cancer is different from other diseases. We believed that cancer behaves like a fire, in that you can't stop it once it has started. Therefore, you have to cut it out or radiate it to death or chemically destroy every cancerous cell in the body since it can never become normal again. NOTHING COULD BE MORE WRONG! And we have believed that cancers of different types such as leukemia or breast cancer have different causes. Wrong again! In this book you will see that all cancers are alike. They are all caused by a parasite. A single parasite! It is the human intestinal fluke. And if you kill this parasite, the cancer stops immediately. The tissue becomes normal again. In order to get cancer, you must have this parasite. How can the human intestinal fluke cause cancer? This parasite typically lives in the intestine where it might do little harm, causing only colitis, Crohn's disease, or irritable bowel syndrome, or perhaps nothing at all. But if it invades a different organ, like the uterus or the kidneys or liver, it does a great deal of harm. If it establishes itself in the liver, it causes cancer! It only establishes itself in the liver in some people. These people have isopropyl alcohol in their bodies. All cancer patients have both isopropyl alcohol and the intestinal fluke in their livers. The solvent, isopropyl alcohol, is responsible for letting the fluke establish itself in the liver. In order to get cancer, you must have both the parasite and isopropyl alcohol in your body. There's lots more, but that's enough for now. Huge Quackwatch article, with many many links at the bottom, debunking her. Settle in for a long fascinating read. http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cer/clark.html Bottom line--she's a total quack.

10th March 2003, 07:59 AM	#6
Goshawk Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Decatur, Illinois, USA Posts: 1,453	The logical people to notice liver flukes would be someone doing autopsies of liver cancer patients. I don't see it mentioned here. http://www.foxriverwatch.com/liver_h...r_pcbs_1b.html Or here. http://www.cam.gl/engelsk/inussuk/2h...ld/004_19.html Or here, either. http://hepatitis-central.com/hcv/liver/cancer/risk.html If your friend needs to have an actual forensic pathologist tell him, "I've autopsied hundreds of cadavers and I've never seen liver flukes in a cancer patient" before he'll believe you, you may have to wait a long time, as I don't think there are many forensic pathologists hanging out at JREF.

10th March 2003, 11:52 AM	#7
tim Lasiorhinus latifrons Combat Division Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bedfordshire, UK Posts: 11,329	Wow! Does this mean I can take up smoking again? And drinking a bottle a day? And not worry about carcenogens? (if that's how you spell it). And will I live forever? Nah!

12th March 2003, 04:40 AM	#9
edthedoc Thinker Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 165	Quack quack quack. Dr Clark would like us believe that the site http://www.drhuldaclark.org/ has nothing to do with her. Her own site http://huldaclark.net/ is a much more mundane thing. How can we find out more about her medical credentials? Is she even a qualified medical doctor? If so, who on earth monitors the work she does? The stuff about liver flukes is complete and utter nonsense.
edthedoc Thinker Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 165

12th March 2003, 01:31 PM	#10
Goshawk Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Decatur, Illinois, USA Posts: 1,453	From the Quackwatch article. http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...cer/clark.html Quote: Hulda Regehr Clark...describes herself as an "independent research scientist" with bachelor and master's degrees from the University of Saskatchewan and a Ph.D. degree in physiology from the University of Minnesota (1958). She also lists a naturopathic (N.D.) degree from the Clayton College of Natural Health. Clayton is a nonaccredited correspondence school founded in 1980 and located in Birmingham Alabama. In 1985, when this school was called Dr. Clayton's School of Natural Healing, its "Doctor of Naturopathy" course was described in a magazine article as a "100-hour course" for which the tuition was $695. And she "practices" in Tijuana, Mexico, where she's beyond the reach of the Feds.

13th March 2003, 12:47 PM	#11
Agammamon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,385	Anyone with Isopropyl Alcohol in their system has far greater problems than flukes and cancer. That is what rubbing alcohol is and it can be a fairly potent poison when ingested.
	__________________ It will be a great day when the US Air Force has all the bombs it needs and the NEA has to hold a bake sale in order to pay its lobbyists.