Last Truth Crusader Out, Turn Off The Lights

Foolmewunz · 12th September 2011, 05:18 PM

It's over. Done. Finished. Put a fork in them. My previous assessment of the TM was that they were moribund. They've gone well beyond that, now. The corpse is getting cold and beginning to stink.

I've done a marthon of news-watching over the past couple of days and outside of the confines of the internet, not a single byte of coverage of the TM. Nothing on their "hearings". Nothing on the radio "debates". Nothing on the hecklers at GZ. BBC Int'l? Nothing. DW? Nul. CNN Intl? Zip. Radio France? Rien. Telemondo? Nada. Al Jazeera? Nope.

If there was ever proof that they exist only as long as you don't click Yes at the "Are You Sure You Want to Log Off?" prompt, it's been the last 48 hours. They are now relegated to the status of that guy who wanted to put bloomers on cows.

I haven't lost interest in debunking Truthers - they're still fair game. But I think we need to keep it in perspective. They're a dust mote in the eye - a minor annoyance.

AndrewBurley · 12th September 2011, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

It's over. Done. Finished. Put a fork in them. My previous assessment of the TM was that they were moribund. They've gone well beyond that, now. The corpse is getting cold and beginning to stink.

I've done a marthon of news-watching over the past couple of days and outside of the confines of the internet, not a single byte of coverage of the TM. Nothing on their "hearings". Nothing on the radio "debates". Nothing on the hecklers at GZ. BBC Int'l? Nothing. DW? Nul. CNN Intl? Zip. Radio France? Rien. Telemondo? Nada. Al Jazeera? Nope.

If there was ever proof that they exist only as long as you don't click Yes at the "Are You Sure You Want to Log Off?" prompt, it's been the last 48 hours. They are now relegated to the status of that guy who wanted to put bloomers on cows.

I haven't lost interest in debunking Truthers - they're still fair game. But I think we need to keep it in perspective. They're a dust mote in the eye - a minor annoyance.

So, if it isn't on the news it doesn't exist? You got a lot to learn about the world, kid.

DavidJames · 12th September 2011, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

So, if it isn't on the news it doesn't exist? You got a lot to learn about the world, kid.

It's not in the news. It's not on the lips of politicians. It's not in the courts. It's not being investigated by insurance companies, it's not being investigated by lawyers and grand juries. It's not in the science journals. It's not in the engineering journals. It's not being seriously debated in academia. It's not being preached from the pulpit. It's not being discussed on serious technical forums. And for the most part, that is true in the entire freaking world!

Where it exists is only in the minds of the mentally ill, the socially disenfranchised and the hucksters who prey on them. It's also in the minds of Internet trolls whose lives and social engagements include, and may be limited to, trying to provoke people on Internet forums.

I haven't posted hear in many months and won't again for many more. If at some point I see intelligent, reasonable people providing honest genuine evidence to support the 9/11 conspiracy theories, I'll pay attention. But considering it's been 10 years, I won't be holding my breath.

AJM8125 · 12th September 2011, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

I've done a marthon of news-watching over the past couple of days and outside of the confines of the internet, not a single byte of coverage of the TM. Nothing on their "hearings". Nothing on the radio "debates". Nothing on the hecklers at GZ. BBC Int'l? Nothing. DW? Nul. CNN Intl? Zip. Radio France? Rien. Telemondo? Nada. Al Jazeera? Nope.

Same thing, even here in SF, where they have always run some kind of truther piece to satisfy the alternate views in this region. Not a peep on the local front. If they can't make it here, they can't make it anywhere...

beachnut · 12th September 2011, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

It's over. Done. Finished. Put a fork in them. My previous assessment of the TM was that they were moribund. They've gone well beyond that, now. The corpse is getting cold and beginning to stink.

...

Pittsburgh lost yesterday, their running back is a truther, he failed to retract his failed statements, and the football gods punished him. Actually I think the other team beat the nonsense out of him.

Poor AB failed to get the point, and remains in fantasy-land.

Quad4_72 · 12th September 2011, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

So, if it isn't on the news it doesn't exist? You got a lot to learn about the world, kid.

It isn't anywhere except on obscure forums on the internet. The Twoof movement is a complete and utter failure. Anyone involved is an embarrassment to not only themselves, but undoubtedly their families as well. They have disgraced themselves and were a part of something that will be a permanent scar on their lives. For the rest of their time on this planet, they will have to live with the shame of being a member of a group that knowingly pissed on the graves of all that died that day. Anyone that was part of the deceased Twoof Movement will forever be labeled as having been part of one of the most despicable groups of people on Earth.

Rest in agonizing pain, Twoof Movement. You WILL be forgotten.

Foolmewunz · 12th September 2011, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

So, if it isn't on the news it doesn't exist? You got a lot to learn about the world, kid.

Thank you. I turned 62 today, gramps.

AndrewBurley · 12th September 2011, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by DavidJames

It's not in the news. It's not on the lips of politicians. It's not in the courts. It's not being investigated by insurance companies, it's not being investigated by lawyers and grand juries. It's not in the science journals. It's not in the engineering journals. It's not being seriously debated in academia. It's not being preached from the pulpit. It's not being discussed on serious technical forums. And for the most part, that is true in the entire freaking world!

Where it exists is only in the minds of the mentally ill, the socially disenfranchised and the hucksters who prey on them. It's also in the minds of Internet trolls whose lives and social engagements include, and may be limited to, trying to provoke people on Internet forums.

I haven't posted hear in many months and won't again for many more. If at some point I see intelligent, reasonable people providing honest genuine evidence to support the 9/11 conspiracy theories, I'll pay attention. But considering it's been 10 years, I won't be holding my breath.

There are documentaries being made about it. To say that it hasn't been in the news isn't true. Just look at the Geraldo spot on FOX news, really taking wtc7 theories seriously. I am not sure what you expect to be on the news about 9/11 conspiracies on the anniversary. Anyway, to claim that the conspiracy isn't true because noone is talking about it is fallacious

beachnut · 12th September 2011, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Thank you. I turned 62 today, gramps.

Have a great week, that was funny; he has no clue.

TheRedWorm · 12th September 2011, 06:01 PM

Andrew, I'll ask you this, then. What do you think that truth movement will accomplish, and when?

OldTigerCub · 12th September 2011, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by beachnut

Pittsburgh lost yesterday, their running back is a truther, he failed to retract his failed statements, and the football gods punished him. Actually I think the other team beat the nonsense out of him.

Poor AB failed to get the point, and remains in fantasy-land.

HEY! That's my team's truther running back! I snap my Terrible Towel in your general direction!!!
Actually, I think it was the Pirates that showed up in football uniforms to play.

Considering all of the "new evidence" exposed by troothers that the DOJ, FBI, TSA etc....have acted on, I'd say Folmewunz hit the nail on the head, though.

ElMondoHummus · 12th September 2011, 06:06 PM

You just called Lau Joe "kid"? A man who protest marched back in the 60's? And tried to tack a lame interpretation of his argument on top of it?

Where else do I not see truthers?

Published, legitimate academia. I look in legit journals and don't see the Jones/Harrit work on thermite published there, nor referenced by other works. I don't see Gage's charges appear in structural engineering journals nor architectural ones. But I do see a single work in Bentham. Which is exactly my point: Legitimate academia.
The engineering or architectural professions. Sure, there's that list - Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. But you don't see any motions passed by groups like the ICC (International Code Council) or the AIA. Or RIBA in the UK. ASCE was given a missive by one truther in Europe, and you could hear the laughter 3 states away; they certainly have taken no organizational stances on conspiracy fantasy. And that's the real measure of where a profession stands: How the profession as a whole moves. No movement there. And on top of that, it's amazing how many AE911T signatories are either non-structural engineers (like "software engineer), or architects who've not dealt with the specific issues in tall structures, let alone fire safety engineering ones. I'll credit Gage with designing a gymnasium, and another signatory in Florida for designing swimming pools, but neither speaks of significant pull in the tall structures community.
Popular consciousness: You had the Kennedy Conspiracists given a nod with X-Files Lone Gunmen. UFO-"ologists" are in dozens of movies. But truthers simply don't rate even side (or snide) mentions; it takes chemtrailers or Icke Lizardmen belief to be considered more freaky.
Real life: On the 10th anniversary of 9/11, in a college town, with well advertised tributes in abundance and public displays easily accessible, I had to pass an empty storefront on a side street to see truthers. And they were the first and the most I've ever seen in real life; there were about 6 of them.

If it weren't for the internet, who'd know they exist? And even with the internet, who gives them credence? Like I said in another thread, I've spoken with woo-prone people who believe in conspiracies like governments hiding alien evidence and more than one gunman killed Kennedy. Yet, the ones I spoke to think 9/11 truthers are stupid. Yes, the word "stupid" was specifically used. And this from the audience that should be the most prone to the fantasy.

The fact remains: It's an obscure belief shared by mere handfuls of people that's accomplished nothing but earn derision. Which was Joe's real point: Not that they don't exist, but that their existence is so insignificant that it cannot even get news airtime on a date specifically devoted to the topic they obsess over. But too bad you were more intent on trying to misrepresent his statement in order to salvage a mere shred of acknowledgement about their existence. Most people would've read and interpreted what he meant to post, not what a reader wanted him to mean so he could object to it. But then, you wouldn't be a truther if you didn't automatically misunderstand the obvious, would you?

AndrewBurley · 12th September 2011, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by TheRedWorm

Andrew, I'll ask you this, then. What do you think that truth movement will accomplish, and when?

I am not affiliated with any truth movement. Most of them, I must agree, are not too bright. Their objective, they claim, is a new investigation. I think it's possible they could get one but most wouldn't accept it's conclusions if they weren't favourable.

Foolmewunz · 12th September 2011, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

There are documentaries being made about it. To say that it hasn't been in the news isn't true. Just look at the Geraldo spot on FOX news, really taking wtc7 theories seriously. I am not sure what you expect to be on the news about 9/11 conspiracies on the anniversary. Anyway, to claim that the conspiracy isn't true because noone is talking about it is fallacious

You seem to be misguided, somewhat. Let me see if I can help you out, here. I'm not claiming that the conspiracy isn't true because it's unpopular. I've got ample evidence that the conspiracy isn't true. I'm no longer concerned with that part.

I'm claiming that the TM is dead because it only gets the attention of trolls, nutbars, professional conspiradroids(holocaust deniers, moon hoaxers, FEMA fanatics, Chemtrail idiots, et al), blood-sucking leeches, delusional children, and the occasional assistant producer with a slot to fill on a poorly watched Channel 74 public affairs program.

In the real world (outside of the confines of discussion forums) no one is paying the slightest attention to the TM. It's a delusion, much fostered by those of us here who can be rather pedantic and who are the epitome of that famous cartoon... "Can't go to sleep... someone's wrong on the internet." And I'm one of those who are guilty. It's a pastime and should no longer be taken seriously.

ElMondoHummus · 12th September 2011, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

Anyway, to claim that the conspiracy isn't true because noone is talking about it is fallacious

The conspiracy fantasies aren't true on their own merits. The fact that nearly no one talks about it is a sign of insignificance. Which again, is closer to what Joe was talking about when he mentioned they were "moribund". Dying is an acknowledgement of their existence; the rest of the OP is a statement of irrelevancy, not nonexistence.

Redtail · 12th September 2011, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

There are documentaries being made about it. To say that it hasn't been in the news isn't true. Just look at the Geraldo spot on FOX news, really taking wtc7 theories seriously. I am not sure what you expect to be on the news about 9/11 conspiracies on the anniversary. Anyway, to claim that the conspiracy isn't true because noone is talking about it is fallacious

Who said it isn't true because no one is talking about it? It isn't true because after 10 years all the evidence truthers have is "this doesn't look right!"

That no one is talking about it just points out how irrelevant the TM is.

AndrewBurley · 12th September 2011, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Redtail

Who said it isn't true because no one is talking about it? It isn't true because after 10 years all the evidence truthers have is "this doesn't look right!"

That no one is talking about it just points out how irrelevant the TM is.

If the truth movement is irrelevant, why is this sub-forum so active?

AJM8125 · 12th September 2011, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

If the truth movement is irrelevant, why is this sub-forum so active?

Because you masochists keep coming back for more.

beachnut · 12th September 2011, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

If the truth movement is irrelevant, why is this sub-forum so active?

This sub-forum is really tutor for JREF. Used for typing practice until you join reality. How long will you remain in 911 truth, spreading lies? If you had evidence for your claims, you would be famous like Woodward and Bernstein.

Sword_Of_Truth · 12th September 2011, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

If the truth movement is irrelevant, why is this sub-forum so active?

It's like a practice gym for critical thinking.

Taking a position which is already known to be false and having a silly person come in and seriously argue said position can be useful in illustrating logical fallacies and how to think around them.

ElMondoHummus · 12th September 2011, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

If the truth movement is irrelevant, why is this sub-forum so active?

Ignoring the fact that it's only one forum, and an obscure one that few people in real life know about: It's not really all that active. Back in '06, it was way busier. Nowadays whole days go by with only a couple of threads seeing real life.

If the truth movement were relevant, why wouldn't they be more prominent in the list I mentioned above?

tmd2_1 · 12th September 2011, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

It's over. Done. Finished. Put a fork in them. My previous assessment of the TM was that they were moribund. They've gone well beyond that, now. The corpse is getting cold and beginning to stink.

I've done a marthon of news-watching over the past couple of days and outside of the confines of the internet, not a single byte of coverage of the TM. Nothing on their "hearings". Nothing on the radio "debates". Nothing on the hecklers at GZ. BBC Int'l? Nothing. DW? Nul. CNN Intl? Zip. Radio France? Rien. Telemondo? Nada. Al Jazeera? Nope.

If there was ever proof that they exist only as long as you don't click Yes at the "Are You Sure You Want to Log Off?" prompt, it's been the last 48 hours. They are now relegated to the status of that guy who wanted to put bloomers on cows.

I haven't lost interest in debunking Truthers - they're still fair game. But I think we need to keep it in perspective. They're a dust mote in the eye - a minor annoyance.

Ah...if only saying things made them true.

Walter Ego · 12th September 2011, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

It's over. Done. Finished. Put a fork in them. My previous assessment of the TM was that they were moribund. They've gone well beyond that, now. The corpse is getting cold and beginning to stink.

I've done a marthon of news-watching over the past couple of days and outside of the confines of the internet, not a single byte of coverage of the TM. Nothing on their "hearings". Nothing on the radio "debates". Nothing on the hecklers at GZ. BBC Int'l? Nothing. DW? Nul. CNN Intl? Zip. Radio France? Rien. Telemondo? Nada. Al Jazeera? Nope.

If there was ever proof that they exist only as long as you don't click Yes at the "Are You Sure You Want to Log Off?" prompt, it's been the last 48 hours. They are now relegated to the status of that guy who wanted to put bloomers on cows.

I haven't lost interest in debunking Truthers - they're still fair game. But I think we need to keep it in perspective. They're a dust mote in the eye - a minor annoyance.

The TM peaked circa 2006-2008 and its 15 minutes of media attention not coincidentally coincided with the internet release of Loose Change.

Mediawise, except for the state run Russia Today channel, host to anything conspiratorial and anti-American (and hardly main stream), and the fringes of public access and far left listener supported radio (i.e., Pacifica) and a rogue PBS channel in Colorado, the TM can't get arrested.

To truthers, of course, this lack of attention is merely evidence that the MSN is part of the cover up. Meanwhile back in reality, its evidence of the fact that investigate reporters require proof before they run with a story.

9/11 Truth is, and always was, a mostly internet phenomena. It has never gained any traction with even a significant minority of the American public. It is fringe of the fringe.

AJM8125 · 12th September 2011, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by tmd2_1

Ah...if only saying things made them true.

I once had an irony meter. It exploded. 'Tis true.

EventHorizon · 12th September 2011, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by tmd2_1

Ah...if only saying things made them true.

The truth movement motto.

Foolmewunz · 12th September 2011, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by tmd2_1

Ah...if only saying things made them true.

Now, now. You wouldn't want to tear down the remaining "cornerstone"... Constant Repetition of Lies and Nonsense Makes The True. That's the entire credo of the TM and your heroes, Cap'n Bobby and the vaunted CIT.

Ya see, I offered evidence, empirical albeit anecdotal, for why you're involved in an insignificant blip on the radar of social movements through history. You offer nothing other than your opinion. Yet, as a bona fide TMist, you think just saying that what I said is not true makes a valid argument. Someone else will have to explain the irony to you, because I'm sure you won't get it.

Redtail · 12th September 2011, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

If the truth movement is irrelevant, why is this sub-forum so active?

The folks who post here have different reasons. For example, I use the logical fallacies posted here (mainly by truthers) as examples for my public speaking classes.

Now then, if the TM is relevant, why were they so inactive when every major news organization in the country had cameras & mics at GZ?

Myriad · 12th September 2011, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

If the truth movement is irrelevant, why is this sub-forum so active?

The claims of the Truth Movement are irrelevant, for the simple reason that they are wrong.

The actions, goals, and wishes of the Truth Movement are irrelevant, because they are chronically ineffectual.

And yet, the Truth Movement is not irrelevant, to these forums. It is an interesting, revealing, and possibly important exhibit of invincible irrational belief in impossible and extraordinarily unlikely things. That phenomenon (locally termed "woo") is what we talk about here, here meaning not just this subforum but all the JREF forums.

Respectfully,
Myriad

cantonear1968 · 12th September 2011, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by tmd2_1

Ah...if only saying things made them true.

Then you'd actually be able to prove something.

tmd2_1 · 12th September 2011, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Now, now. You wouldn't want to tear down the remaining "cornerstone"... Constant Repetition of Lies and Nonsense Makes The True. That's the entire credo of the TM and your heroes, Cap'n Bobby and the vaunted CIT.

Ya see, I offered evidence, empirical albeit anecdotal, for why you're involved in an insignificant blip on the radar of social movements through history. You offer nothing other than your opinion. Yet, as a bona fide TMist, you think just saying that what I said is not true makes a valid argument. Someone else will have to explain the irony to you, because I'm sure you won't get it.

Evidence? 2008 world opinion poll not even half believe AQ did it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septemb..._opinion_polls

The Platypus · 12th September 2011, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

Just look at the Geraldo spot on FOX news, really taking wtc7 theories seriously.

Wow Geraldo!. You go!

The Platypus · 12th September 2011, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by tmd2_1

Evidence? 2008 world opinion poll not even half believe AQ did it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septemb..._opinion_polls

1 Trying to spin doctor things is dishonest...

2 How many on there believe your delusions?

AJM8125 · 12th September 2011, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by tmd2_1

Evidence? 2008 world opinion poll not even half believe AQ did it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septemb..._opinion_polls

At this point I'd like to conduct an informal poll:

Has tmd stopped beating his wife? Yes or no.

tmd2_1 · 12th September 2011, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by The Platypus

1 Trying to spin doctor things is dishonest...

2 How many on there believe your delusions?

What's spin doctored? I said here's a poll, not even half or AQ?

TexasJack · 12th September 2011, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by tmd2_1

Evidence? 2008 world opinion poll not even half believe AQ did it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septemb..._opinion_polls

That poll was taken from 17 countries outside the US. Even then only 15% thought it had US involvement. But hey, 43% of Egyptians think it was a US inside job. Maybe you can get a rally going there of 11 or 12 people. That would be twice as big as the truther gatherings in the US.

tmd2_1 · 12th September 2011, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by AJM8125

At this point I'd like to conduct an informal poll:

Has tmd stopped beating his wife? Yes or no.

You really think this is called for?

tmd2_1 · 12th September 2011, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by TexasJack

That poll was taken from 17 countries outside the US. Even then only 15% thought it had US involvement. But hey, 43% of Egyptians think it was a US inside job. Maybe you can get a rally going there of 11 or 12 people. That would be twice as big as the truther gatherings in the US.

So what? 9/11 effected so many people in so many countries, everyone deserves the truth.

JohnG · 12th September 2011, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by tmd2_1

You really think this is called for?

Whoooosh!

The Platypus · 12th September 2011, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by tmd2_1

What's spin doctored? I said here's a poll, not even half or AQ?

What's spin doctored he says.. LOL.. Yeah...

Do you really think noone can see that the poll isn't the way you are trying to portray it.

And what about the other results, how many believe your delusions on the poll your waving around? Why do you purposely ignore that? More spin doctoring, that's why...

fitzgibbon · 12th September 2011, 07:46 PM

The truth movement's pretty much a non-entity, a rounding error in terms of the population at large. Almost every bit of the activity from newbie 'truthers' here has been debunked (repeatedly in most cases) and honestly, it's so repetitive that it could be handled with a master list of threads.

"Oh, that's a #273. Here's a link to the threads where that's been discussed. Read them and if you need further help, come back. "

I'm sure there'll always be 'truthers' but it's just going to continue circling the bowl, devoid of energy, avoiding the vortex only because some teenager needs a hobbyhorse which he'll ride until he gets a girlfriend.

12th September 2011, 05:18 PM	#1
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 20,511	Last Truth Crusader Out, Turn Off The Lights It's over. Done. Finished. Put a fork in them. My previous assessment of the TM was that they were moribund. They've gone well beyond that, now. The corpse is getting cold and beginning to stink. I've done a marthon of news-watching over the past couple of days and outside of the confines of the internet, not a single byte of coverage of the TM. Nothing on their "hearings". Nothing on the radio "debates". Nothing on the hecklers at GZ. BBC Int'l? Nothing. DW? Nul. CNN Intl? Zip. Radio France? Rien. Telemondo? Nada. Al Jazeera? Nope. If there was ever proof that they exist only as long as you don't click Yes at the "Are You Sure You Want to Log Off?" prompt, it's been the last 48 hours. They are now relegated to the status of that guy who wanted to put bloomers on cows. I haven't lost interest in debunking Truthers - they're still fair game. But I think we need to keep it in perspective. They're a dust mote in the eye - a minor annoyance.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele Don't you wish someone had slapped baby Hitler really really hard? [i] Dr. Buzzo 02/13 [i] Last edited by Foolmewunz; 12th September 2011 at 05:19 PM.

12th September 2011, 05:44 PM	#3
DavidJames Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Front Range, CO Posts: 7,083	Originally Posted by AndrewBurley So, if it isn't on the news it doesn't exist? You got a lot to learn about the world, kid. It's not in the news. It's not on the lips of politicians. It's not in the courts. It's not being investigated by insurance companies, it's not being investigated by lawyers and grand juries. It's not in the science journals. It's not in the engineering journals. It's not being seriously debated in academia. It's not being preached from the pulpit. It's not being discussed on serious technical forums. And for the most part, that is true in the entire freaking world! Where it exists is only in the minds of the mentally ill, the socially disenfranchised and the hucksters who prey on them. It's also in the minds of Internet trolls whose lives and social engagements include, and may be limited to, trying to provoke people on Internet forums. I haven't posted hear in many months and won't again for many more. If at some point I see intelligent, reasonable people providing honest genuine evidence to support the 9/11 conspiracy theories, I'll pay attention. But considering it's been 10 years, I won't be holding my breath.
	__________________ I will no longer respond to those who choose to have tools of murder as their avatars. Everyone is a skeptic except, of course, for the stuff that they believe Beaver Hateman: Is your argument that human life loses value proportionate to the number of humans available? Malcolm Kirkpatrick: That's part of the argument. Value is determined by supply and demand. Last edited by DavidJames; 12th September 2011 at 05:46 PM.

12th September 2011, 05:47 PM	#6
Quad4_72 AI-EE-YAH! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 5,830	Originally Posted by AndrewBurley So, if it isn't on the news it doesn't exist? You got a lot to learn about the world, kid. It isn't anywhere except on obscure forums on the internet. The Twoof movement is a complete and utter failure. Anyone involved is an embarrassment to not only themselves, but undoubtedly their families as well. They have disgraced themselves and were a part of something that will be a permanent scar on their lives. For the rest of their time on this planet, they will have to live with the shame of being a member of a group that knowingly pissed on the graves of all that died that day. Anyone that was part of the deceased Twoof Movement will forever be labeled as having been part of one of the most despicable groups of people on Earth. Rest in agonizing pain, Twoof Movement. You WILL be forgotten.
	__________________ Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken

12th September 2011, 05:50 PM	#7
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 20,511	Originally Posted by AndrewBurley So, if it isn't on the news it doesn't exist? You got a lot to learn about the world, kid. Thank you. I turned 62 today, gramps.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele Don't you wish someone had slapped baby Hitler really really hard? [i] Dr. Buzzo 02/13 [i]

12th September 2011, 05:57 PM	#8
AndrewBurley Suspended Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 146	Originally Posted by DavidJames It's not in the news. It's not on the lips of politicians. It's not in the courts. It's not being investigated by insurance companies, it's not being investigated by lawyers and grand juries. It's not in the science journals. It's not in the engineering journals. It's not being seriously debated in academia. It's not being preached from the pulpit. It's not being discussed on serious technical forums. And for the most part, that is true in the entire freaking world! Where it exists is only in the minds of the mentally ill, the socially disenfranchised and the hucksters who prey on them. It's also in the minds of Internet trolls whose lives and social engagements include, and may be limited to, trying to provoke people on Internet forums. I haven't posted hear in many months and won't again for many more. If at some point I see intelligent, reasonable people providing honest genuine evidence to support the 9/11 conspiracy theories, I'll pay attention. But considering it's been 10 years, I won't be holding my breath. There are documentaries being made about it. To say that it hasn't been in the news isn't true. Just look at the Geraldo spot on FOX news, really taking wtc7 theories seriously. I am not sure what you expect to be on the news about 9/11 conspiracies on the anniversary. Anyway, to claim that the conspiracy isn't true because noone is talking about it is fallacious
AndrewBurley Suspended Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 146

12th September 2011, 05:29 PM	#2
AndrewBurley Suspended Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 146	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz It's over. Done. Finished. Put a fork in them. My previous assessment of the TM was that they were moribund. They've gone well beyond that, now. The corpse is getting cold and beginning to stink. I've done a marthon of news-watching over the past couple of days and outside of the confines of the internet, not a single byte of coverage of the TM. Nothing on their "hearings". Nothing on the radio "debates". Nothing on the hecklers at GZ. BBC Int'l? Nothing. DW? Nul. CNN Intl? Zip. Radio France? Rien. Telemondo? Nada. Al Jazeera? Nope. If there was ever proof that they exist only as long as you don't click Yes at the "Are You Sure You Want to Log Off?" prompt, it's been the last 48 hours. They are now relegated to the status of that guy who wanted to put bloomers on cows. I haven't lost interest in debunking Truthers - they're still fair game. But I think we need to keep it in perspective. They're a dust mote in the eye - a minor annoyance. So, if it isn't on the news it doesn't exist? You got a lot to learn about the world, kid.
AndrewBurley Suspended Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 146

12th September 2011, 05:45 PM	#4
AJM8125 NWO Black Ops Tagger Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: **** Creek, California Posts: 15,250	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz I've done a marthon of news-watching over the past couple of days and outside of the confines of the internet, not a single byte of coverage of the TM. Nothing on their "hearings". Nothing on the radio "debates". Nothing on the hecklers at GZ. BBC Int'l? Nothing. DW? Nul. CNN Intl? Zip. Radio France? Rien. Telemondo? Nada. Al Jazeera? Nope. Same thing, even here in SF, where they have always run some kind of truther piece to satisfy the alternate views in this region. Not a peep on the local front. If they can't make it here, they can't make it anywhere...

12th September 2011, 05:46 PM	#5
beachnut Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dog House Posts: 19,890	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz It's over. Done. Finished. Put a fork in them. My previous assessment of the TM was that they were moribund. They've gone well beyond that, now. The corpse is getting cold and beginning to stink. ... Pittsburgh lost yesterday, their running back is a truther, he failed to retract his failed statements, and the football gods punished him. Actually I think the other team beat the nonsense out of him. Poor AB failed to get the point, and remains in fantasy-land.

12th September 2011, 06:00 PM	#9
beachnut Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dog House Posts: 19,890	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz Thank you. I turned 62 today, gramps. Have a great week, that was funny; he has no clue.

12th September 2011, 06:01 PM	#10
TheRedWorm I AM the Red Worm! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Body: Michigan, Heart: Chicago Posts: 3,882	Andrew, I'll ask you this, then. What do you think that truth movement will accomplish, and when?
	__________________ See I'm not a monster, I'm just ahead of the curve. -Joker Working them to death is murder. Making them live like pigs and dying from disease is murder. Shooting them next to a ditch is murder. Digging them up and burning them to hide your murder, is extra credit evil. -beachnut

12th September 2011, 06:01 PM	#11
OldTigerCub Striped Shapeshifting Reptoid Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Steeler Nation, Pa. Posts: 1,633	Originally Posted by beachnut Pittsburgh lost yesterday, their running back is a truther, he failed to retract his failed statements, and the football gods punished him. Actually I think the other team beat the nonsense out of him. Poor AB failed to get the point, and remains in fantasy-land. HEY! That's my team's truther running back! I snap my Terrible Towel in your general direction!!! Actually, I think it was the Pirates that showed up in football uniforms to play. Considering all of the "new evidence" exposed by troothers that the DOJ, FBI, TSA etc....have acted on, I'd say Folmewunz hit the nail on the head, though.
	__________________ "Nuts!" - General Anthony C. McAuliffe

12th September 2011, 06:06 PM	#12
ElMondoHummus 0.25 short of being half-witted Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole Posts: 11,938	You just called Lau Joe "kid"? A man who protest marched back in the 60's? And tried to tack a lame interpretation of his argument on top of it? Where else do I not see truthers? Published, legitimate academia. I look in legit journals and don't see the Jones/Harrit work on thermite published there, nor referenced by other works. I don't see Gage's charges appear in structural engineering journals nor architectural ones. But I do see a single work in Bentham. Which is exactly my point: Legitimate academia. The engineering or architectural professions. Sure, there's that list - Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. But you don't see any motions passed by groups like the ICC (International Code Council) or the AIA. Or RIBA in the UK. ASCE was given a missive by one truther in Europe, and you could hear the laughter 3 states away; they certainly have taken no organizational stances on conspiracy fantasy. And that's the real measure of where a profession stands: How the profession as a whole moves. No movement there. And on top of that, it's amazing how many AE911T signatories are either non-structural engineers (like "software engineer), or architects who've not dealt with the specific issues in tall structures, let alone fire safety engineering ones. I'll credit Gage with designing a gymnasium, and another signatory in Florida for designing swimming pools, but neither speaks of significant pull in the tall structures community. Popular consciousness: You had the Kennedy Conspiracists given a nod with X-Files Lone Gunmen. UFO-"ologists" are in dozens of movies. But truthers simply don't rate even side (or snide) mentions; it takes chemtrailers or Icke Lizardmen belief to be considered more freaky. Real life: On the 10th anniversary of 9/11, in a college town, with well advertised tributes in abundance and public displays easily accessible, I had to pass an empty storefront on a side street to see truthers. And they were the first and the most I've ever seen in real life; there were about 6 of them. If it weren't for the internet, who'd know they exist? And even with the internet, who gives them credence? Like I said in another thread, I've spoken with woo-prone people who believe in conspiracies like governments hiding alien evidence and more than one gunman killed Kennedy. Yet, the ones I spoke to think 9/11 truthers are stupid. Yes, the word "stupid" was specifically used. And this from the audience that should be the most prone to the fantasy. The fact remains: It's an obscure belief shared by mere handfuls of people that's accomplished nothing but earn derision. Which was Joe's real point: Not that they don't exist, but that their existence is so insignificant that it cannot even get news airtime on a date specifically devoted to the topic they obsess over. But too bad you were more intent on trying to misrepresent his statement in order to salvage a mere shred of acknowledgement about their existence. Most people would've read and interpreted what he meant to post, not what a reader wanted him to mean so he could object to it. But then, you wouldn't be a truther if you didn't automatically misunderstand the obvious, would you?
	__________________ must take this very carefully....booze is wise men's drink..... -pillory "... I'm quite willing to have everyone use my rejection of the 9/11 conspiracy theory as a basis for assessing my intelligence, judgment, and trustworthiness" -Prof. Ann Althouse

12th September 2011, 06:07 PM	#13
AndrewBurley Suspended Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 146	Originally Posted by TheRedWorm Andrew, I'll ask you this, then. What do you think that truth movement will accomplish, and when? I am not affiliated with any truth movement. Most of them, I must agree, are not too bright. Their objective, they claim, is a new investigation. I think it's possible they could get one but most wouldn't accept it's conclusions if they weren't favourable.
AndrewBurley Suspended Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 146

12th September 2011, 06:09 PM	#14
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 20,511	Originally Posted by AndrewBurley There are documentaries being made about it. To say that it hasn't been in the news isn't true. Just look at the Geraldo spot on FOX news, really taking wtc7 theories seriously. I am not sure what you expect to be on the news about 9/11 conspiracies on the anniversary. Anyway, to claim that the conspiracy isn't true because noone is talking about it is fallacious You seem to be misguided, somewhat. Let me see if I can help you out, here. I'm not claiming that the conspiracy isn't true because it's unpopular. I've got ample evidence that the conspiracy isn't true. I'm no longer concerned with that part. I'm claiming that the TM is dead because it only gets the attention of trolls, nutbars, professional conspiradroids(holocaust deniers, moon hoaxers, FEMA fanatics, Chemtrail idiots, et al), blood-sucking leeches, delusional children, and the occasional assistant producer with a slot to fill on a poorly watched Channel 74 public affairs program. In the real world (outside of the confines of discussion forums) no one is paying the slightest attention to the TM. It's a delusion, much fostered by those of us here who can be rather pedantic and who are the epitome of that famous cartoon... "Can't go to sleep... someone's wrong on the internet." And I'm one of those who are guilty. It's a pastime and should no longer be taken seriously.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele Don't you wish someone had slapped baby Hitler really really hard? [i] Dr. Buzzo 02/13 [i]

12th September 2011, 06:10 PM	#15
ElMondoHummus 0.25 short of being half-witted Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole Posts: 11,938	Originally Posted by AndrewBurley Anyway, to claim that the conspiracy isn't true because noone is talking about it is fallacious The conspiracy fantasies aren't true on their own merits. The fact that nearly no one talks about it is a sign of insignificance. Which again, is closer to what Joe was talking about when he mentioned they were "moribund". Dying is an acknowledgement of their existence; the rest of the OP is a statement of irrelevancy, not nonexistence.
	__________________ must take this very carefully....booze is wise men's drink..... -pillory "... I'm quite willing to have everyone use my rejection of the 9/11 conspiracy theory as a basis for assessing my intelligence, judgment, and trustworthiness" -Prof. Ann Althouse

12th September 2011, 06:10 PM	#16
Redtail Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,303	Originally Posted by AndrewBurley There are documentaries being made about it. To say that it hasn't been in the news isn't true. Just look at the Geraldo spot on FOX news, really taking wtc7 theories seriously. I am not sure what you expect to be on the news about 9/11 conspiracies on the anniversary. Anyway, to claim that the conspiracy isn't true because noone is talking about it is fallacious Who said it isn't true because no one is talking about it? It isn't true because after 10 years all the evidence truthers have is "this doesn't look right!" That no one is talking about it just points out how irrelevant the TM is.
Redtail Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,303	__________________ AVENGERS!!!.. Turn off the dark!

12th September 2011, 06:20 PM	#17
AndrewBurley Suspended Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 146	Originally Posted by Redtail Who said it isn't true because no one is talking about it? It isn't true because after 10 years all the evidence truthers have is "this doesn't look right!" That no one is talking about it just points out how irrelevant the TM is. If the truth movement is irrelevant, why is this sub-forum so active?
AndrewBurley Suspended Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 146

12th September 2011, 06:23 PM	#18
AJM8125 NWO Black Ops Tagger Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: **** Creek, California Posts: 15,250	Originally Posted by AndrewBurley If the truth movement is irrelevant, why is this sub-forum so active? Because you masochists keep coming back for more.

12th September 2011, 06:27 PM	#19
beachnut Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Dog House Posts: 19,890	Originally Posted by AndrewBurley If the truth movement is irrelevant, why is this sub-forum so active? This sub-forum is really tutor for JREF. Used for typing practice until you join reality. How long will you remain in 911 truth, spreading lies? If you had evidence for your claims, you would be famous like Woodward and Bernstein.

12th September 2011, 06:41 PM	#20
Sword_Of_Truth Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 11,497	Originally Posted by AndrewBurley If the truth movement is irrelevant, why is this sub-forum so active? It's like a practice gym for critical thinking. Taking a position which is already known to be false and having a silly person come in and seriously argue said position can be useful in illustrating logical fallacies and how to think around them.

12th September 2011, 06:44 PM	#21
ElMondoHummus 0.25 short of being half-witted Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Somewhere north of the South Pole Posts: 11,938	Originally Posted by AndrewBurley If the truth movement is irrelevant, why is this sub-forum so active? Ignoring the fact that it's only one forum, and an obscure one that few people in real life know about: It's not really all that active. Back in '06, it was way busier. Nowadays whole days go by with only a couple of threads seeing real life. If the truth movement were relevant, why wouldn't they be more prominent in the list I mentioned above?
	__________________ must take this very carefully....booze is wise men's drink..... -pillory "... I'm quite willing to have everyone use my rejection of the 9/11 conspiracy theory as a basis for assessing my intelligence, judgment, and trustworthiness" -Prof. Ann Althouse

12th September 2011, 06:49 PM	#22
tmd2_1 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,657	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz It's over. Done. Finished. Put a fork in them. My previous assessment of the TM was that they were moribund. They've gone well beyond that, now. The corpse is getting cold and beginning to stink. I've done a marthon of news-watching over the past couple of days and outside of the confines of the internet, not a single byte of coverage of the TM. Nothing on their "hearings". Nothing on the radio "debates". Nothing on the hecklers at GZ. BBC Int'l? Nothing. DW? Nul. CNN Intl? Zip. Radio France? Rien. Telemondo? Nada. Al Jazeera? Nope. If there was ever proof that they exist only as long as you don't click Yes at the "Are You Sure You Want to Log Off?" prompt, it's been the last 48 hours. They are now relegated to the status of that guy who wanted to put bloomers on cows. I haven't lost interest in debunking Truthers - they're still fair game. But I think we need to keep it in perspective. They're a dust mote in the eye - a minor annoyance. Ah...if only saying things made them true.
tmd2_1 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,657

12th September 2011, 06:53 PM	#23
Walter Ego Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,557	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz It's over. Done. Finished. Put a fork in them. My previous assessment of the TM was that they were moribund. They've gone well beyond that, now. The corpse is getting cold and beginning to stink. I've done a marthon of news-watching over the past couple of days and outside of the confines of the internet, not a single byte of coverage of the TM. Nothing on their "hearings". Nothing on the radio "debates". Nothing on the hecklers at GZ. BBC Int'l? Nothing. DW? Nul. CNN Intl? Zip. Radio France? Rien. Telemondo? Nada. Al Jazeera? Nope. If there was ever proof that they exist only as long as you don't click Yes at the "Are You Sure You Want to Log Off?" prompt, it's been the last 48 hours. They are now relegated to the status of that guy who wanted to put bloomers on cows. I haven't lost interest in debunking Truthers - they're still fair game. But I think we need to keep it in perspective. They're a dust mote in the eye - a minor annoyance. The TM peaked circa 2006-2008 and its 15 minutes of media attention not coincidentally coincided with the internet release of Loose Change. Mediawise, except for the state run Russia Today channel, host to anything conspiratorial and anti-American (and hardly main stream), and the fringes of public access and far left listener supported radio (i.e., Pacifica) and a rogue PBS channel in Colorado, the TM can't get arrested. To truthers, of course, this lack of attention is merely evidence that the MSN is part of the cover up. Meanwhile back in reality, its evidence of the fact that investigate reporters require proof before they run with a story. 9/11 Truth is, and always was, a mostly internet phenomena. It has never gained any traction with even a significant minority of the American public. It is fringe of the fringe.

12th September 2011, 06:59 PM	#24
AJM8125 NWO Black Ops Tagger Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: **** Creek, California Posts: 15,250	Originally Posted by tmd2_1 Ah...if only saying things made them true. I once had an irony meter. It exploded. 'Tis true.

12th September 2011, 07:01 PM	#25
EventHorizon Atheist Tergiversator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,840	Originally Posted by tmd2_1 Ah...if only saying things made them true. The truth movement motto.
	__________________ "One of the hardest parts of being an active skeptic - of anything - is knowing when to cut your losses, and then doing so." -Phil Plait

12th September 2011, 07:02 PM	#26
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 20,511	Originally Posted by tmd2_1 Ah...if only saying things made them true. Now, now. You wouldn't want to tear down the remaining "cornerstone"... Constant Repetition of Lies and Nonsense Makes The True. That's the entire credo of the TM and your heroes, Cap'n Bobby and the vaunted CIT. Ya see, I offered evidence, empirical albeit anecdotal, for why you're involved in an insignificant blip on the radar of social movements through history. You offer nothing other than your opinion. Yet, as a bona fide TMist, you think just saying that what I said is not true makes a valid argument. Someone else will have to explain the irony to you, because I'm sure you won't get it.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele Don't you wish someone had slapped baby Hitler really really hard? [i] Dr. Buzzo 02/13 [i]

12th September 2011, 07:08 PM	#27
Redtail Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,303	Originally Posted by AndrewBurley If the truth movement is irrelevant, why is this sub-forum so active? The folks who post here have different reasons. For example, I use the logical fallacies posted here (mainly by truthers) as examples for my public speaking classes. Now then, if the TM is relevant, why were they so inactive when every major news organization in the country had cameras & mics at GZ?
Redtail Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,303	__________________ AVENGERS!!!.. Turn off the dark!

12th September 2011, 07:11 PM	#28
Myriad Hyperthetical Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 8,196	Originally Posted by AndrewBurley If the truth movement is irrelevant, why is this sub-forum so active? The claims of the Truth Movement are irrelevant, for the simple reason that they are wrong. The actions, goals, and wishes of the Truth Movement are irrelevant, because they are chronically ineffectual. And yet, the Truth Movement is not irrelevant, to these forums. It is an interesting, revealing, and possibly important exhibit of invincible irrational belief in impossible and extraordinarily unlikely things. That phenomenon (locally termed "woo") is what we talk about here, here meaning not just this subforum but all the JREF forums. Respectfully, Myriad
	__________________ The cosmos is a vast Loom, with time the warp and space the weft. We are all fruit of the Loom, unaware.

12th September 2011, 07:14 PM	#29
cantonear1968 Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 494	Originally Posted by tmd2_1 Ah...if only saying things made them true. Then you'd actually be able to prove something.
	__________________ Richard Gage: "I don't claim that 100% of the concrete floors were vaporized, but 99% were". "I see so your deferring to the academic integrity of youtube. Wow." -Grandmastershek

12th September 2011, 07:17 PM	#30
tmd2_1 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,657	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz Now, now. You wouldn't want to tear down the remaining "cornerstone"... Constant Repetition of Lies and Nonsense Makes The True. That's the entire credo of the TM and your heroes, Cap'n Bobby and the vaunted CIT. Ya see, I offered evidence, empirical albeit anecdotal, for why you're involved in an insignificant blip on the radar of social movements through history. You offer nothing other than your opinion. Yet, as a bona fide TMist, you think just saying that what I said is not true makes a valid argument. Someone else will have to explain the irony to you, because I'm sure you won't get it. Evidence? 2008 world opinion poll not even half believe AQ did it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septemb..._opinion_polls
tmd2_1 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,657

12th September 2011, 07:20 PM	#31
The Platypus Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,789	Originally Posted by AndrewBurley Just look at the Geraldo spot on FOX news, really taking wtc7 theories seriously. Wow Geraldo!. You go!
	__________________ I'll go with the qualified experts, over some ranting guy on the internet that claims he has "the truth". Always beware of those that overuse, capitalize and blanket themselves in them word "truth". I may not always know the truth, but i do know when i'm being lied too.

12th September 2011, 07:26 PM	#32
The Platypus Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,789	Originally Posted by tmd2_1 Evidence? 2008 world opinion poll not even half believe AQ did it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septemb..._opinion_polls 1 Trying to spin doctor things is dishonest... 2 How many on there believe your delusions?
	__________________ I'll go with the qualified experts, over some ranting guy on the internet that claims he has "the truth". Always beware of those that overuse, capitalize and blanket themselves in them word "truth". I may not always know the truth, but i do know when i'm being lied too. Last edited by The Platypus; 12th September 2011 at 07:28 PM.

12th September 2011, 07:28 PM	#33
AJM8125 NWO Black Ops Tagger Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: **** Creek, California Posts: 15,250	Originally Posted by tmd2_1 Evidence? 2008 world opinion poll not even half believe AQ did it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septemb..._opinion_polls At this point I'd like to conduct an informal poll: Has tmd stopped beating his wife? Yes or no.

12th September 2011, 07:31 PM	#34
tmd2_1 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,657	Originally Posted by The Platypus 1 Trying to spin doctor things is dishonest... 2 How many on there believe your delusions? What's spin doctored? I said here's a poll, not even half or AQ?
tmd2_1 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,657

12th September 2011, 07:36 PM	#35
TexasJack Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 10,881	Originally Posted by tmd2_1 Evidence? 2008 world opinion poll not even half believe AQ did it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septemb..._opinion_polls That poll was taken from 17 countries outside the US. Even then only 15% thought it had US involvement. But hey, 43% of Egyptians think it was a US inside job. Maybe you can get a rally going there of 11 or 12 people. That would be twice as big as the truther gatherings in the US.