Last Truth Crusader Out, Turn Off The Lights

[TexasJack]

Originally Posted by tmd2_1

So what? 9/11 effected so many people in so many countries, everyone deserves the truth.

So where are the protests? Where is the passion? On the 10th anniversary of 9/11 there are maybe 200 truthers demonstrating? Pathetic.

You claim all these people don't believe the commonly held narrative, then where are they? What are they doing? Nothing other than typing on a keyboard on obscure internet forum.

Go do something like the war protesters and maybe I'll believe there is any interest in change. Otherwise your movement is dead.

[fitzgibbon]

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

Just look at the Geraldo spot on FOX news, really taking wtc7 theories seriously.

Wow. Geraldo. Sucked you in with 'sincerity'. I can hardly wait to see the spike in converts.

[tmd2_1]

Originally Posted by The Platypus

What's spin doctored he says.. LOL.. Yeah...

And what about the other half of what i said, how many believe your delusions on the poll your waving around? Why do you purposely ignore that? More spin doctoring, that's why...

Hungh? How many believe what I believe? I only want to find out the truth, and it seems like over half of the poll aren't sure AQ is behind it.

[tmd2_1]

Originally Posted by TexasJack

So where are the protests? Where is the passion? On the 10th anniversary of 9/11 there are maybe 200 truthers demonstrating? Pathetic.

You claim all these people don't believe the commonly held narrative, then where are they? What are they doing? Nothing other than typing on a keyboard on obscure internet forum.

Go do something like the war protesters and maybe I'll believe there is any interest in change. Otherwise your movement is dead.

That day is not the time for protests, it would be in bad taste. The Toronto hearings were interesting though...things change.

[The Platypus]

Originally Posted by tmd2_1

Hungh? How many believe what I believe? I only want to find out the truth, and it seems like over half of the poll aren't sure AQ is behind it.

You aren't after the truth, you are playing an agenda, that's why you only pay attention to one part of the poll and are trying to spin doctor it. That's not honest and not the truth...

[TexasJack]

Originally Posted by tmd2_1

That day is not the time for protests, it would be in bad taste. The Toronto hearings were interesting though...things change.

Will you tell me which day is a good day? I'll tell you, none are. Truthers have been trying demonstrations for years and a mere pittance shows up. Why do you think that is? Any ideas?

[fitzgibbon]

Originally Posted by tmd2_1

That day is not the time for protests, it would be in bad taste. The Toronto hearings were interesting though...things change.

'truthers' have never worried about bad taste before; why the sudden collective attack of conscience? Things don't change that much that quickly

[Foolmewunz]

Originally Posted by tmd2_1

That day is not the time for protests, it would be in bad taste. The Toronto hearings were interesting though...things change.

You're new to this, aren't you?

Bad taste? Craig, Aldo, Cap'n Bobby, Alex Jones, Uncle Fetzer, Luke R, Manny Badillo, Dylan "Simile" Avery... Are you sure you know who you're talking about? I really don't think you have any familiarity with the movement, whatsoever?

Do you have a clue as to the massive activities the TM attempted (with the emphasis on "did not achieve") on the various anniversaries of 911? WAC, Alex Jones, Dylan and the boys.... They were calling for hundreds of thousands to show up at GZ, suggesting disruption tactics, and bull-horning so they could be heard over the people there for the memorial aspect of the day.

They didn't call for their mass turnout this year because the hundred thousand in 2008 (or 2009) turned into The 300 (and they didn't even have CGI nor oiled manly bodies for the pervs to check out), and the couldn't get even a smidgen of interest last year. They gave up because they were embarassing themselves.

If this bunch of dolts could get two hundred people together to siphon off donations from, they'd do it. They can't. There's no interest. Less than 500 people showed up in the Biggest Bestest 911 Truth Demo Ever. Out of a city of 8 million in a metro area of 23 million. < 500 !

[ElMondoHummus]

Frankly, Lau Joe, that was an honest accomplishment for them. I mean, those folks would rather be in the basement and call for others to bear the standards on the streets. Could you imagine the bravery it took for them to actually come up from the basement and face... sunlight??

[AJM8125]

Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus

Frankly, Lau Joe, that was an honest accomplishment for them. I mean, those folks would rather be in the basement and call for others to bear the standards on the streets. Could you imagine the bravery it took for them to actually come up from the basement and face... sunlight??

Bravery?

Probably more likely they did it out of boredom and ignorance because they're the ones who haven't figured out how to get back on the PlayStation Network after Anonymous hacked their accounts.

[tmd2_1]

Originally Posted by TexasJack

Will you tell me which day is a good day? I'll tell you, none are. Truthers have been trying demonstrations for years and a mere pittance shows up. Why do you think that is? Any ideas?

Not that day that's for sure. Things are changing, can I point you to one particular thing (I mean other than that poll had under 50% believing the official story) it's just a feeling.

[Walter Ego]

Originally Posted by tmd2_1

Not that day that's for sure. Things are changing, can I point you to one particular thing (I mean other than that poll had under 50% believing the official story) it's just a feeling.

Which poll would that be? Do you have a citation?

I suspect that 50% number is for people who responded to a question on the order of "Do you believe we have been told everything the government knows about what happened on 9/11?" to which any person with two brain cells left to rub together would answer in the negative.

That "no" answer is not the same thing as believing 9/11 was an inside job, however.

[ElMondoHummus]

Originally Posted by AJM8125

Bravery?

Probably more likely they did it out of boredom and ignorance because they're the ones who haven't figured out how to get back on the PlayStation Network after Anonymous hacked their accounts.

All these years, and you still don't get my sarcasm?

[lionking]

Sorry, edit.

[Redtail]

Originally Posted by tmd2_1

That day is not the time for protests, it would be in bad taste. The Toronto hearings were interesting though...things change.

So 10 years & the truthers still haven't found a time to hold a major protest?

[AJM8125]

Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus

All these years, and you still don't get my sarcasm?

All these years, and you still don't know when I'm trying to get your attention? Has JimBenArm been sending you e-mails again?

[Eric D]

Originally Posted by tmd2_1

Hungh? How many believe what I believe? I only want to find out the truth, and it seems like over half of the poll aren't sure AQ is behind it.

15 percent thought the US government was involved, 25 percent said they didn't know, 7 percent said Israel, another 7 said other. You're lumping all these together to support your position, even the ones who said they didn't know. The majority of people on the graph thought Al Qaeda was behind the attacks.


Don't insult anyone's intelligence with this crap.

[AndrewBurley]

Originally Posted by Eric D

15 percent thought the US government was involved, 25 percent said they didn't know, 7 percent said Israel, another 7 said other. You're lumping all these together to support your position, even the ones who said they didn't know. The majority of people on the graph thought Al Qaeda was behind the attacks.


Don't insult anyone's intelligence with this crap.

So, 22% of people think either the US government or Israel were responsible. That is a hell of a lot of people.

[The Platypus]

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

So, 22% of people think either the US government or Israel were responsible. That is a hell of a lot of people.

No that's not a hell of allot of people, it's 22% of 16063 people asked across 17 countries.

There is a also breakdown of the votes by country, which show the voting country by country, and give a more detailed picture of this poll than what you two are trying to spin doctor...

For example, most of the ones blaming Israel are in Egypt, Jordan and the Palestinian Territories. No surprise there. And yet the Palestinians still have a 42% vote for AQ.

[AndrewBurley]

Originally Posted by The Platypus

No that's not a hell of allot of people, it's 22% of 16063 people asked across 17 countries.

There is a also breakdown of the votes by country, which show the voting country by country, and give a more detailed picture of this poll than what you two are trying to spin doctor...

For example, most of the ones blaming Israel are in Egypt, Jordan and the Palestinian Territories. No surprise there. And yet the Palestinians still have a 42% vote for AQ.

Do you know how opinion polls work? They take a representative sample then extrapolate to the whole population. Is there a reason to believe this poll was conducted unfairly? It seems to tally with most other polls I have seen.

[LashL]

Originally Posted by foolmewunz

it's over. Done. Finished. Put a fork in them. My previous assessment of the tm was that they were moribund. They've gone well beyond that, now. The corpse is getting cold and beginning to stink.

lights out.jpg

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Thank you. I turned 62 today, gramps.

Happy birthday, foolmewunz!

[The Platypus]

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

Do you know how opinion polls work? They take a representative sample then extrapolate to the whole population. Is there a reason to believe this poll was conducted unfairly? It seems to tally with most other polls I have seen.

Your asking me when i should be asking you cult recruiters, do you know how polls work?

Even when conducted fairly they are not an exact science. Yes, polls are a sampling from which to approximate over a population. The results can vary from poll to poll depending on who they ask, what they ask, when they ask, who is doing the asking and how they ask it. Even when the same poll is taken twice, one can have vastly different results. Polls also can quickly become dated, what people thought 3 years ago, is not necessarily what they think today at this moment, or what they might think tomorrow or at any other time in the future. Even when a poll is done as fairly as they can, the results could still be totally wrong. There is also even a calculated margin of error to all polls.

Therefore, because of these things, no single poll is any sort definitive proof, like it is absolute fact, as you cult recruiters are trying to dishonestly make this one out to be. Nor is cherry picking pieces out of their context to manipulate other people, an honest thing to do.

As for it tallying with most other polls you have seen, I don't take the word of what seems or what you've seen from a cult recruiter, whose entire agenda is to recruit using every dirty trick in the book, so you will have to post these other polls you think this one tallies with and prove that.

[AndrewBurley]

Originally Posted by The Platypus

Your asking me when i should be asking you cult recruiters, do you know how polls work?

Even when conducted fairly they are not an exact science. Yes, polls are a sampling from which to approximate over a population. The results can vary from poll to poll depending on who they ask, what they ask, when they ask, who is doing the asking and how they ask it. Even when the same poll is taken twice, one can have vastly different results. Polls also can quickly become dated, what people thought 3 years ago, is not necessarily what they think today at this moment, or what they might think tomorrow or at any other time in the future. Even when a poll is done as fairly as they can, the results could still be totally wrong. There is also even a calculated margin of error to all polls.

Therefore, because of these things, no single poll is any sort definitive proof, like it is absolute fact, as you cult recruiters are trying to dishonestly make this one out to be. Nor is cherry picking pieces out of their context to manipulate other people, an honest thing to do.

As for it tallying with most other polls you have seen, I don't take the word of what seems or what you've seen from a cult recruiter, whose entire agenda is to recruit using every dirty trick in the book, so you will have to post these other polls you think this one tallies with and prove that.

Cult recruiter?

[The Platypus]

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

Cult recruiter?

What part don't you understand about that?

[dafydd]

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

So, if it isn't on the news it doesn't exist? You got a lot to learn about the world, kid.

The TM movement is just a few nutters on the internet.

[dafydd]

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

So, 22% of people think either the US government or Israel were responsible. That is a hell of a lot of people.

No. That is very few people. There is no truth movement in Belgium,where I live. The Belgians are far too intelligent for that.

[beachnut]

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

So, 22% of people think either the US government or Israel were responsible. That is a hell of a lot of people.

Where is your Pulitzer Prize? Correct, you have delusion about 911, you don't evidence. You will not have a Pulitzer, you have nonsense. You failed to understand 911; you were given 10 years, it only took minutes for Passengers on Flight 93 to figure out 911, why are you one of the last humans on earth to figure out 911?

[The Platypus]

With 22%, he's leaving out that most of the 7% that say it was Israel, were in Egypt, Jordan, and the Palestinian Territories, not exactly countries with people that are big fans of Israel to begin with. And the same with a good sized portion the 15% that say it was the US Gov't. They are also not ignoring that it was only conducted in 17 countries not including the US. They don't mention that 9 of the 17 countries have a majority vote that it was AQ that did it, or that 2 of the countries majority vote was the "don't know" option, and out of the other 6 countries, 4 still had their largest amount of votes that AQ did it, 1 had the largest vote block for Isreal did it, and 1 has the largest vote block for "dont" know. That the US gov't did it was not the largest vote block in any of the 17 countries.

Not exactly the world wide support for these cult recruiters that they are trying to make it out to be when you look at the entire poll and not jsut their cherry picked little parts. They don't tell us any of that, they just wave little pieces around trying to manipulate us into thinking they have more support than they do.

[Marokkaan]

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=vOaJZr83RJg

[Dave Rogers]

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

If the truth movement is irrelevant, why is this sub-forum so active?

I've made some comments on that in another thread; however, I would reverse that point, and say: If the truth movement is relevant, why is this sub-forum virtually the only place where it's regularly addressed by people who aren't members of it?

Quite simply, nobody else cares about you.

Dave

[AndrewBurley]

Originally Posted by The Platypus

What part don't you understand about that?

Well the cult bit was confusing and the recruiting only compounded it.

[newton3376]

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

If the truth movement is irrelevant, why is this sub-forum so active?

You seem to misunderstand....

This sub-forum is part of a skeptic forum discussing things like psychics, UFO's, magic, religion, etc etc. Conspiracy theories are a sub set of such things. So the people that come to forums like JREF are typically people that bother to debate such things on the internet.

But most people don't debate on the internet.....it is a small community that bother to do so for any extended period of time.

The phrase "Internet debating is like the special Olympics, even if you win you're still retarded" describes most people's attitudes towards internet debating. That goes for all topics....religion, conspiracy theories, politics, etc. So right off the bat you are looking at a small percentage of the population.

With that.....if you look at various forums that actually discuss the 9/11 issue.....take a good hard look at how active they have been in the last year or so, including this forum. None of the 9/11 forums, including the truther ones, have much activity anymore. It's just not a big topic.

Most of the serious "debunkers" that have websites have stopped updating them and don't post here (or anywhere) much anymore.

And take a look at how many people, on average, attend Gages presentations.......not many. And most are already truthers anyway.

How often do you see the WTC collapses debated in the relevant professional communities? Never.
How often do you see the 9/11 conspiracy theories covered in any mainstream media? Rarely.
How often do you see the 9/11 conspiracy theories covered in alternative media? Occasionally.
How often do you see the 9/11 conspiracy theories referenced by sources like Alex Jones? Often

But that's it really....how could you honestly look at this and believe your movement is actually relevant? Even the debate forums where this topic is a popular one have slowed down considerably....and some have grinded to a halt.

Do an experiment......take 6 months and don't visit any 9/11 debate forums on the internet....and see how often the topic comes up in the course of normal life. See how often you see it referenced on TV or radio....see how many times you even SEE a truther out in real life.

That should reveal to you what the limits are of this particular topic.

[little grey rabbit]

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

You're new to this, aren't you?

Bad taste? Craig, Aldo, Cap'n Bobby, Alex Jones, Uncle Fetzer, Luke R, Manny Badillo, Dylan "Simile" Avery... Are you sure you know who you're talking about? I really don't think you have any familiarity with the movement, whatsoever?

Do you have a clue as to the massive activities the TM attempted (with the emphasis on "did not achieve") on the various anniversaries of 911? WAC, Alex Jones, Dylan and the boys.... They were calling for hundreds of thousands to show up at GZ, suggesting disruption tactics, and bull-horning so they could be heard over the people there for the memorial aspect of the day.

They didn't call for their mass turnout this year because the hundred thousand in 2008 (or 2009) turned into The 300 (and they didn't even have CGI nor oiled manly bodies for the pervs to check out), and the couldn't get even a smidgen of interest last year. They gave up because they were embarassing themselves.

If this bunch of dolts could get two hundred people together to siphon off donations from, they'd do it. They can't. There's no interest. Less than 500 people showed up in the Biggest Bestest 911 Truth Demo Ever. Out of a city of 8 million in a metro area of 23 million. < 500 !

So most people believe the hegemonic narrative? Is that really so surprising?

Most people in Germany believed the Nazis' narrative. Most people in the Soviet Union believed the communist narrative, which only fell apart because there was a much better system thriving across the Iron Curtain.

What if the Iron Curtain had been impermeable? The Soviets probably would never have realised what a pony system they were living under.

At least not until the Iron Curtain was breached.

[Foolmewunz]

Originally Posted by little grey rabbit

So most people believe the hegemonic narrative? Is that really so surprising?

Most people in Germany believed the Nazis' narrative. Most people in the Soviet Union believed the communist narrative, which only fell apart because there was a much better system thriving across the Iron Curtain.

What if the Iron Curtain had been impermeable? The Soviets probably would never have realised what a pony system they were living under.

At least not until the Iron Curtain was breached.

I assume that was addressed to me, merely by the facts of the juxtaposition (e.g. that you quoted my post before typing yours), but that's about all I have to go on.

Tell me about the freedom of the press in Nazi Germany. I'll wait while you check with your handlers and friends in high places. Then we can get around to just why the iron curtain was referred to as the iron curtain, but that might be the advanced course.

Next up.... stay tuned after these messages.... North Korea, paradise or fool's errand?

[little grey rabbit]

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

I assume that was addressed to me, merely by the facts of the juxtaposition (e.g. that you quoted my post before typing yours), but that's about all I have to go on.

Tell me about the freedom of the press in Nazi Germany. I'll wait while you check with your handlers and friends in high places. Then we can get around to just why the iron curtain was referred to as the iron curtain, but that might be the advanced course.

Tell me about the freedom of press anywhere.

The Iron Curtain refers to Winston Churchill's speech at Fulton, Missouri (or something like that).

But since that speech is rather famous, I will instead quote a less famous speech given in America few years before

They led the Elder Statesman into dinner after that, and Luce seated
him at the place of honour on his right.
Clear turtle soup was served, and he gobbled it down. It was followed
by terrapin: lowering his head so as to be nearer to his prey, he skillfully
forked the delicacy from plate to mouth with swift grabbing movements
which reminded one onlooker of a steamshovel's grab-bucket at work.
Words and oratory cascaded from him, his tongue now loosened by
rare champagne; true, he appeared to be taking only delicate sips, but
from the number of refills it was clear that he had imbibed a considerable
volume - editor Allen Grover assayed his intake on this evening as one
martini, two sherries, four or five glasses of champagne and a formidable
balloon of brandy.
Once, he recalled, Stalin had debated with him the real meaning of
democracy. Britain, said Stalin, was really a dictatorship because one party
- the party that happened to be in power - controlled everything. Churchill
remained a skeptic, committed to parliamentarianism. He told Luce's
dinner guests how, at Potsdam in 1945, he had warned Stalin that he
might well find himself replaced as prime minister at the General Election
whose results were even then being awaited; Stalin had solemnly commented,
'My kind of election is better.'
Several remarks showed Churchill's warm regard for Stalin. 'Stalin is
the one human being in Russia,' he said, 'I'm sure he doesn't believe any
of those awful things he said about me.' Later he said, 'Stalin always kept
his word - and gave as an example how the Kremlin had adhered to the
Soviet-German agreement of August 1939 right up to Hitler's attack two
years later. Who actually controlled Russia? Churchill pondered the question,
then said: 'While Stalin appears to make policy in a sort of vacuum, I
doubt very much that he is really free to do what he wants to do.'
There was no gainsaying his admiration of the Soviet Communist
Party's role in the war.The party members are highly disciplined, very
brave men,- he reflected with unashamed reverence. 'They died in very
large numbers in the first great battles.' But shortly he qualified this attitude.
'I have always been for the Russian people; it is communism that I
oppose.'
Just as in Europe's feudal past so in the Soviet system the party officials
got the best wages, food, shopping discounts, and accommodation in
trains and hotels. As a system of power, the caste structure was hard to
defeat, he admitted. 'Take your own United States,' he said casting a mischievous
hand around the tuxedo'd table. 'Suppose by some mischance
that in this marvellous country three of four millions of people emerged as
a self-appointed, highly disciplined elite with all the political and economic
controls in their possession. Suppose they had all the privileges - the firstclass
railroad carriages, the best food, the best food for their children. You
would have quite a time, I dare say, trying to shake them loose.'

Why, Foolmewunz, what did you think I was referring to?

[tmd2_1]

Originally Posted by Eric D

15 percent thought the US government was involved, 25 percent said they didn't know, 7 percent said Israel, another 7 said other. You're lumping all these together to support your position, even the ones who said they didn't know. The majority of people on the graph thought Al Qaeda was behind the attacks.


Don't insult anyone's intelligence with this crap.

I said less than half of the respondents said it wasn't AQ. Last time I looked 46% was less than half. Of course I lumped all the others together, what else would you do? If I were asked this question on a poll I myself would respond with "I don't know", but I don't think AQ did it at all. The numbers speak for themselves.

[tmd2_1]

Originally Posted by The Platypus

With 22%, he's leaving out that most of the 7% that say it was Israel, were in Egypt, Jordan, and the Palestinian Territories, not exactly countries with people that are big fans of Israel to begin with. And the same with a good sized portion the 15% that say it was the US Gov't. They are also not ignoring that it was only conducted in 17 countries not including the US. They don't mention that 9 of the 17 countries have a majority vote that it was AQ that did it, or that 2 of the countries majority vote was the "don't know" option, and out of the other 6 countries, 4 still had their largest amount of votes that AQ did it, 1 had the largest vote block for Isreal did it, and 1 has the largest vote block for "dont" know. That the US gov't did it was not the largest vote block in any of the 17 countries.

Not exactly the world wide support for these cult recruiters that they are trying to make it out to be when you look at the entire poll and not jsut their cherry picked little parts. They don't tell us any of that, they just wave little pieces around trying to manipulate us into thinking they have more support than they do.

Yeah sure there is some bias in those countries. But did you ever think for one second that in the U.S. (or the west in general) there is bias the other way? We were told hours after the event it was OBL and AQ, and you add a general dislike of of people from that part of the world, and there is certainly bias.

[twinstead]

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

So, if it isn't on the news it doesn't exist? You got a lot to learn about the world, kid.

When I turn my computer off the truth movement ceases to exist. Unless you think the real world is YouTube and a handful of obscure internet sites and discussion forums then you are totally out of touch.

Where is the debate in academia? Where is the debate in Scientific and Engineering journals? Where are the mass protests? Where is the debate in the Halls of Congress?

Don't EVEN try to think that the crap you are trying to force feed us on this forum has ANY significance in the real world at all. You're just another cult member who thinks he knows the "truth". You're the internet equivalent of the wild-eyed bearded old man on a street corner in any good-sized city shouting, "The world is coming to an end, REPENT!". In the city, I just step around him and continue on my way. On the internet, I turn my computer off.

No difference.

[AndrewBurley]

Originally Posted by twinstead

When I turn my computer off the truth movement ceases to exist. Unless you think the real world is YouTube and a handful of obscure internet sites and discussion forums then you are totally out of touch.

Where is the debate in academia? Where is the debate in Scientific and Engineering journals? Where are the mass protests? Where is the debate in the Halls of Congress?

Don't EVEN try to think that the crap you are trying to force feed us on this forum has ANY significance in the real world at all. You're just another cult member who thinks he knows the "truth". You're the internet equivalent of the wild-eyed bearded old man on a street corner in any good-sized city shouting, "The world is coming to an end, REPENT!". In the city, I just step around him and continue on my way. On the internet, I turn my computer off.

No difference.

But you dont turn your computer off. You compose a big long reply to me.

[NoZed Avenger]

Originally Posted by AndrewBurley

But you dont turn your computer off. You compose a big long reply to me.

So the triumph of the truth movement after ten years of dogged work is that they can keep twinstead on his computer for an extra ten minutes?

In other words, you have about one hundred-thousandth of the power of a reasonably attractive swimsuit model?

Go, you. Well worth the effort.