Has there been (will there ever be) any "inside job" whistleblowers?

[000063]

Originally Posted by twinstead

Indeed. Earth's history is absolutely filled with people willing to risk their lives to end injustice.

Apparently, not a single insider has the strength of conviction of a Truther.

Or access to their addresses, phone numbers, email addresses...

[Scott Sommers]

Originally Posted by twinstead

Yea, I'm sure the kind of secrets he's talking about are mass murder by the government, isn't he bill?

In my mind, if Iran Contra can get out, ANYTHING can.

Actually, Iran-Contra was falling apart by the time it was uncovered.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2...ry_and_scandal
But maybe that's your point. There were so many people involved and so many things going on, something was bound to go wrong. And anyone who has seen his foxy secretary knows that trying to hide the thing only made it worse.

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I AGREE

Hall's mother was also a secretary to a major player in Iran-Contra. Strange how all these ladies survived Hall's whistle-blowing. But I guess that only goes to show how much braver you'd have to do something like this about the 9/11 conspiracy. Right? Right!

It's 9/11 Truth that's the hero of this scandal. 9/11 Truth, those brave young white men, willing to risk it all to save the world from tyranny. 9/11 Truth...9/11 Truth...the heroes of the world.

[Micromegas]

Originally Posted by bill smith

It's better not to be so naive. The American Joint Chiefs of staff put their John Hancock's on the Northwood document

I love how the Northwoods document gets dusted off every time a truther needs to demonstrate our leaders' willingness to engage in dirty deeds. However, Kennedy and McNamara wouldn't give Northwoods the go-ahead, which tells me that either they had ethical qualms about the plot or didn't think they could get away with it.

But you, in your reasonable and objective view of human history, decide that those animals wouldn't lose any sleep over killing thousands of
American civilians or the risks involved with such a plot. I assume you mean everyone in the military, the government, high finance, the intelligence communities of various nations, the police and fire departments in NYC, emergency crews in Virginia, the coroner's office in Pennsylvania, Larry Silverstein, the mainstream media, NIST, and assorted people at the FAA.

Did I miss anyone?

-Mike

[Scott Sommers]

Originally Posted by Horatius

Something that I've tried to point out to the truthers before, with predictable results.

You've got it all wrong. Just go ask Craig Fitzgerald of We Are Change and his sidekick Harry Link. They'll tell you how all these things are set up by the NWO to give the appearance of opposition. There is no real opposition to the NWO except the Truth Movement and their mighty soldiers in We Are Change. And even some of them are paid agents of the NWO - I suppose that includes me.

Think I'm joking? No way. The young white men of the Truth Movement are out there willing to risk it all to save the world from tyranny. 9/11 Truth...9/11...Truth the heroes of the world.

But I am joking that I get paid for my work. I volunteer my time to the NWO. It's always better to be on the winning side.

[bill smith]

Originally Posted by Micromegas

I love how the Northwoods document gets dusted off every time a truther needs to demonstrate our leaders' willingness to engage in dirty deeds. However, Kennedy and McNamara wouldn't give Northwoods the go-ahead, which tells me that either they had ethical qualms about the plot or didn't think they could get away with it.

But you, in your reasonable and objective view of human history, decide that those animals wouldn't lose any sleep over killing thousands of
American civilians or the risks involved with such a plot. I assume you mean everyone in the military, the government, high finance, the intelligence communities of various nations, the police and fire departments in NYC, emergency crews in Virginia, the coroner's office in Pennsylvania, Larry Silverstein, the mainstream media, NIST, and assorted people at the FAA.

Did I miss anyone?

-Mike

Yeah,,sure. There are a few hundred key players at most and the rest take orders. Read post number three or so..the one about the Nuremberg Trials and what those guys said. Nothing has changed.

You are completely dumb or politically motivated if you think that 9/11 was not an inside job. Watch the video in a post I made to you a few minutes ago (#36) Andreas van Bulow lays out the whole thing in simple clear terms. It couldn't be more obvious and people had better atart getting smart real quick and put a stop to this before it's too late.

[Scott Sommers]

Quote:

bill smith
This message is hidden because bill smith is on your ignore list.

It's 9/11 Truth that's the hero of this scandal. 9/11 Truth, those brave young white men, willing to risk it all to save the world from tyranny. 9/11 Truth...9/11 Truth...the heroes of the world.

[Dave Rogers]

Originally Posted by Micromegas

I love how the Northwoods document gets dusted off every time a truther needs to demonstrate our leaders' willingness to engage in dirty deeds. However, Kennedy and McNamara wouldn't give Northwoods the go-ahead, which tells me that either they had ethical qualms about the plot or didn't think they could get away with it.

Oh, christ, not bloody Northwoods again. A document that proposed faked attacks, in which, very specifically, nobody was to get killed, and that was rejected out of hand by JFK, becomes proof that the USA murders its citizens as a matter of routine. As usual, truthers don't look at the actual Northwoods proposals; they just decide what they want history to be, and pretend that's what it was.

Dave

[bill smith]

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

Oh, christ, not bloody Northwoods again. A document that proposed faked attacks, in which, very specifically, nobody was to get killed, and that was rejected out of hand by JFK, becomes proof that the USA murders its citizens as a matter of routine. As usual, truthers don't look at the actual Northwoods proposals; they just decide what they want history to be, and pretend that's what it was.

Dave

Would you mind posting a copy for the Readers to check out ?

'' James Bamford wrote on Northwoods:

Operation Northwoods, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war.[18]''

3,000 at the Twin Towers with a prize of all the World ? No sweat baby..

[Micromegas]

Originally Posted by bill smith

There are a few hundred key players at most and the rest take orders.

That's a few hundred more than I'd be comfortable with if I were an evil conspirator. "We can't achieve the same effect by having one guy place a nuclear briefcase bomb at the WTC? We need to hijack planes, wire the buildings for detonation and all the rest? Sheesh. Simplify, amigo, simplify."

Quote:

You are completely dumb or politically motivated if you think that 9/11 was not an inside job.

And you're as civil and reasonable as, oh, every other truther with whom I've discussed this issue.

-Mike

[djlunacee]

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

Oh, christ, not bloody Northwoods again. A document that proposed faked attacks, in which, very specifically, nobody was to get killed, and that was rejected out of hand by JFK, becomes proof that the USA murders its citizens as a matter of routine. As usual, truthers don't look at the actual Northwoods proposals; they just decide what they want history to be, and pretend that's what it was.

Dave

Furthermore they point to an unclassified document as proof that the American government would be complicit in such actions, without asking the logical question, Why? Why declassify a document for the world to see, then turn around and execute it? The stupidity is beyond me.

[djlunacee]

Originally Posted by Micromegas

I love how the Northwoods document gets dusted off every time a truther needs to demonstrate our leaders' willingness to engage in dirty deeds. However, Kennedy and McNamara wouldn't give Northwoods the go-ahead, which tells me that either they had ethical qualms about the plot or didn't think they could get away with it.

But you, in your reasonable and objective view of human history, decide that those animals wouldn't lose any sleep over killing thousands of
American civilians or the risks involved with such a plot. I assume you mean everyone in the military, the government, high finance, the intelligence communities of various nations, the police and fire departments in NYC, emergency crews in Virginia, the coroner's office in Pennsylvania, Larry Silverstein, the mainstream media, NIST, and assorted people at the FAA.

Did I miss anyone?

-Mike

Quite a few Sabrina had a list at one point. I tried using the search function but couldn't find it, its pretty massive. I will send her a message and see if she still has it.

[bill smith]

Originally Posted by Micromegas

That's a few hundred more than I'd be comfortable with if I were an evil conspirator. "We can't achieve the same effect by having one guy place a nuclear briefcase bomb at the WTC? We need to hijack planes, wire the buildings for detonation and all the rest? Sheesh. Simplify, amigo, simplify."



And you're as civil and reasonable as, oh, every other truther with whom I've discussed this issue.

-Mike

That is a statement of fact and has nothing to do with civility.

[DGM]

Originally Posted by bill smith

Would you mind posting a copy for the Readers to check out ?

'' James Bamford wrote on Northwoods:

Operation Northwoods, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war.[18]''

3,000 at the Twin Towers with a prize of all the World ? No sweat baby..

Maybe you should source this too.

[Dave Rogers]

Originally Posted by bill smith

That is a statement of fact and has nothing to do with civility.

Then you'll have no objection to me saying that you are completely dumb or politically motivated if you think 9/11 was an inside job.

Dave

[bill smith]

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

Then you'll have no objection to me saying that you are completely dumb or politically motivated if you think 9/11 was an inside job.

Dave

Sure. Go ahead, It's not like it's anything new for you..

[twinstead]

Frankly bill I think you are completely dumb or politically motivated if you think that 9/11 was an inside job.

So. It appears we are at an impasse.

Now what? If your evidence of inside job was so great, we'd have the same protests for that as we do the Wall Street protests. When do you think that will happen?

[bill smith]

Originally Posted by DGM

Maybe you should source this too.

Just cut a chunk out and drop it into google and see if you get any results. You too Readers..

[NoahFence]

Originally Posted by bill smith

Would you mind posting a copy for the Readers to check out ?

'' James Bamford wrote on Northwoods:

Operation Northwoods, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war.[18]''

3,000 at the Twin Towers with a prize of all the World ? No sweat baby..

"They" seem to be waiting an awful long time to collect that prize, kiddo.

With every passing day, references to Northwoods and every other retarded truther theory become proven more wrong than they were the day before. Nothing - not a single 'reason' you people have come up with has come true. Not a single one.

[DGM]

Originally Posted by bill smith

Just cut a chunk out and drop it into google and see if you get any results. You too Readers..

I did. It did not bring me back to the original source. Quote the Northwoods section that supports this. Your source didn't.

[bill smith]

Originally Posted by DGM

I did. It did not bring me back to the original source. Quote the Northwoods section that supports this. Your source didn't.

Maybe I'm lying. Try again. You too Readers.

[twinstead]

From what I remember, we have had entire threads based on Northwoods. Start a thread, bill. All I can say is study up, because IIRC there are a few folks here who have read that baby and understand what it is really about.

[NoahFence]

Originally Posted by bill smith

maybe i'm lying. Try again. You too readers.

ftfy

[bill smith]

Originally Posted by twinstead

Frankly bill I think you are completely dumb or politically motivated if you think that 9/11 was an inside job.

So. It appears we are at an impasse.

Now what? If your evidence of inside job was so great, we'd have the same protests for that as we do the Wall Street protests. When do you think that will happen?

Remember the power of the Kitchen Table Twinstead.

[twinstead]

And when will you stop talking to the "readers", bill? You know as well as I do all but a couple of the lurkers think you truthers are nuts. We've been there before...

[bill smith]

Originally Posted by twinstead

From what I remember, we have had entire threads based on Northwoods. Start a thread, bill. All I can say is study up, because IIRC there are a few folks here who have read that baby and understand what it is really about.

I don't think the Readers will have much problem working out what it was all about Twinstead.

[twinstead]

Originally Posted by bill smith

REmember the power of the Kitchen Table Twinstead.

I don't want slogans, bill, I want results. I believe your beliefs about 9-11 are false. You disagree.

How can this impasse be broken? What kinds of things would show even a die-hard skeptic like me that there just may be something to this 9-11 conspiracy thing? Hell, I'm no anti-globalist, but when I see these protesters at Wall Street I say to myself, "hmmmmm. I wonder is there IS something to this. They sure are passionate about it".

[bill smith]

Originally Posted by twinstead

I don't want slogans, bill, I want results. I believe your beliefs about 9-11 are false. You disagree.

How can this impasse be broken? What kinds of things would show even a die-hard skeptic like me that there just may be something to this 9-11 conspiracy thing? Hell, I'm no anti-globalist, but when I see these protesters at Wall Street I say to myself, "hmmmmm. I wonder is there IS something to this. They sure are passionate about it".

Don't worry about it. You'll be back to yourself in no time.

[DGM]

Originally Posted by bill smith

Maybe I'm lying. Try again. You too Readers.

I never said you did. Your source on the other hand.



Why don't you quote the original and shut me (us) up?

[NoahFence]

Originally Posted by twinstead

I don't want slogans, bill, I want results. I believe your beliefs about 9-11 are false. You disagree.

How can this impasse be broken? What kinds of things would show even a die-hard skeptic like me that there just may be something to this 9-11 conspiracy thing? Hell, I'm no anti-globalist, but when I see these protesters at Wall Street I say to myself, "hmmmmm. I wonder is there IS something to this. They sure are passionate about it".

Bill and his kind support their theories with all the passion of a rock.

[bill smith]

Originally Posted by DGM

I never said you did. Your source on the other hand.



Why don't you quote the original and shut me (us) up?

Why would I do that ?(shut you up that is)

[DGM]

Originally Posted by bill smith

Why would I do that ?(shut you up that is)

Nice dodge on sourcing your claim.

The Northwoods documents were about planting flowers so all the world could live in harmony.

Are we even now?

[djlunacee]

Here it is...not one single person has stepped forward....not one.


http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lie...tionsandindivi

This is a list compiled by Gravy, of those that truthers would refer to as liars, dupes , shills, sheep, etc....

Time for a bigger kitchen table.

[bill smith]

Originally Posted by DGM

Nice dodge on sourcing your claim.

The Northwoods documents were about planting flowers so all the world could live in harmony.

Are we even now?

Maybe this will keep you happy.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...6437813472857#

[NoahFence]

Originally Posted by bill smith

Maybe this will keep you happy.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...6437813472857#

...thinking for yourself again I see.

[DGM]

Originally Posted by bill smith

Maybe this will keep you happy.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...6437813472857#

Why would I be un-happy? I've read the "Northwoods" documents. They don't say what you imply.

PS: I'm not sure (and I don't care to filter through all the crap to find them) they are available in their entirety on the internet.

[000063]

Originally Posted by Micromegas

I love how the Northwoods document gets dusted off every time a truther needs to demonstrate our leaders' willingness to engage in dirty deeds. However, Kennedy and McNamara wouldn't give Northwoods the go-ahead, which tells me that either they had ethical qualms about the plot or didn't think they could get away with it.

But you, in your reasonable and objective view of human history, decide that those animals wouldn't lose any sleep over killing thousands of
American civilians or the risks involved with such a plot. I assume you mean everyone in the military, the government, high finance, the intelligence communities of various nations, the police and fire departments in NYC, emergency crews in Virginia, the coroner's office in Pennsylvania, Larry Silverstein, the mainstream media, NIST, and assorted people at the FAA.

Did I miss anyone?

-Mike

Mike, a correction; it was 'carried out' by a small cadre, while simultaneously involving thousands of rescue personnel, military, and civilians, across the country.

How Truthers heads don't explode, I have no idea.

[Drs_Res]

Originally Posted by 000063

Mike, a correction; it was 'carried out' by a *small cadre, while simultaneously involving thousands of rescue personnel, military, and civilians, across the country.

How Truthers heads don't explode, I have no idea.

*for sufficiently large values of "small"

[Dave Rogers]

Originally Posted by DGM

Why would I be un-happy? I've read the "Northwoods" documents. They don't say what you imply.

It's worth listing what Northwoods did suggest.

• A military deception plan to make Cuba think an invasion was imminent, provoking a reaction which could be used as a pretext for an actual invasion.
• Starting rumours of an attack on Guantanamo Bay, stage a fake attack using friendly forces, blow up some munitions, capture some fake enemy soldiers, sink a ship in harbour and stage fake funerals.
• Blow up an unmanned ship in Cuban waters, stage a fake rescue of a nonexistent crew, and publish casualty lists.
• Fake a terror campaign against Cuban expatriates in Florida and Washington, by staging fake assassination attempts, "even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicised", setting off bombs, arresting Cuban agents and faking documents ordering the campaign.
• Sink a boatload of Cubans en route to America, "real or simulated".
• Fake an attack on a Central American country by cane-burning night raids using aircraft in Cuban markings, intercepting fake Cuban arms shipments, and sending fake messages.
• Fake harrassment of US civil aircraft by military aircraft disguised as Cuban MiGs.
• Portraying hijacks as ordered by the Cuban government.
• Shooting down an unmanned drone aircraft and claiming it had American students on board.
• Staging a fake disappearance of a USAF fighter near Cuban waters.

No deaths were planned, and it's unclear whether anybody was to be attacked without their agreement; it's quite consistent with the document that the Cuban expatriates to be wounded and sunk in transit could have been recruited for the purpose.

And the most teling fact about Northwoods is that it didn't stay secret; it's been well-known for a very long time that these things were suggested. To use it as evidence that the US Government could have carried out a mass murder of its own citizens and kept it secret for ten years is utterly bizarre.

Dave

[DGM]

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

And the most teling fact about Northwoods is that it didn't stay secret; it's been well-known for a very long time that these things were suggested. To use it as evidence that the US Government could have carried out a mass murder of its own citizens and kept it secret for ten years is utterly bizarre.

Dave

This is true. I first read about it in the early 70's. I was into the JFK assassination theories and I read about in the library*.

(*for "truthers", this is a place with books you look through to find information).

[bill smith]

Originally Posted by Dave Rogers

It's worth listing what Northwoods did suggest.

• A military deception plan to make Cuba think an invasion was imminent, provoking a reaction which could be used as a pretext for an actual invasion.
• Starting rumours of an attack on Guantanamo Bay, stage a fake attack using friendly forces, blow up some munitions, capture some fake enemy soldiers, sink a ship in harbour and stage fake funerals.
• Blow up an unmanned ship in Cuban waters, stage a fake rescue of a nonexistent crew, and publish casualty lists.
• Fake a terror campaign against Cuban expatriates in Florida and Washington, by staging fake assassination attempts, "even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicised", setting off bombs, arresting Cuban agents and faking documents ordering the campaign.
• Sink a boatload of Cubans en route to America, "real or simulated".
• Fake an attack on a Central American country by cane-burning night raids using aircraft in Cuban markings, intercepting fake Cuban arms shipments, and sending fake messages.
• Fake harrassment of US civil aircraft by military aircraft disguised as Cuban MiGs.
• Portraying hijacks as ordered by the Cuban government.
• Shooting down an unmanned drone aircraft and claiming it had American students on board.
• Staging a fake disappearance of a USAF fighter near Cuban waters.

No deaths were planned, and it's unclear whether anybody was to be attacked without their agreement; it's quite consistent with the document that the Cuban expatriates to be wounded and sunk in transit could have been recruited for the purpose.

And the most teling fact about Northwoods is that it didn't stay secret; it's been well-known for a very long time that these things were suggested. To use it as evidence that the US Government could have carried out a mass murder of its own citizens and kept it secret for ten years is utterly bizarre.

Dave

Slightly unrelated Dave but did they really have drone (unmanned) passenger aircaft that would take off follow a specified flight plan in the 60's ? That means that the planes on 9/11 with the advantage of 30 years improvements in technology could easily have been remote controlled. Do you asgree ? If not, why not ?