Home Telescopes

Hellbound · 14th October 2011, 05:23 PM

Well, my daughter has decided she wants a telescope now for Christmas. Consdiering she's in first grade, and she wants this even if she can't get any toys, I think this is a good sign.

That being said, I'd like to get her something that's actually decent, and I don't know enough about it. So, I'm relying on the expert and knowledgable advice of our JREF members to help this burgeoning young sceptic develop scientific interest (hopefully now I've talked you all up enough to get free advice).

Anyway, I'd like to look into something that could actually resovle some of the planets in the solar system to visibile disks. I figure that's probably going to be expensive, asnd was wondering if anyone knew what sort of power levels I'd need for that. Also, if you have any suggestions on which ones to buy, and similar things, I'd appreciate it. That wil help me price it out and see what we can afford to get her.

MG1962 · 14th October 2011, 05:33 PM

Well first step would be to get a rough idea of what you want to spend

ApolloGnomon · 14th October 2011, 05:39 PM

A few years ago "santa" brought one of these to our house. What it lacks in sophistication it makes up for in ruggedness.

Not ideal for looking at stuff like the moons of Jupiter (Gonna get it out tonight and see what we can anyway, now that the moon is somewhat out of the way) but not bad for looking at the moon, and it has pretty good light gathering so you can see some of the dim largish deep space things.

We have a little tripod that it comes with, too, which makes it better than just putting it on the stand. Kids have pretty short attention spans for looking at blobs of light through a hole, so this actually works out okay for us. I'd like something with a proper equatorial mount next.

Lowpro · 14th October 2011, 06:06 PM

Kookbreaker here is your guy. I put a similar thread here about a month ago and it should have you some good info.

I myself am getting an Apex for Christmas because it's so small and easy to transport. But yea, Kookbreaker is all you need.

temporalillusion · 14th October 2011, 08:37 PM

Our school had one of those Astroscans when I was in Jr. High, I borrowed it many a weekend. Good scope to mess around with.

BTMO · 14th October 2011, 08:57 PM

This may sound a bit odd, but try sounding her out about binoculars. While telescopes are fun, they can be a bit of a one trick pony. With a nice pair of binoculars , she can look at things to the size of Jupiter's moons, the craters on our moon AND she can use them for birdwatching and a bunch of other stuff. 8x50's are a good starting point, but don't get caught with the idea that more magnification is good. You are actually better off getting slightly less magnification and wider apeture objective lenses.

If, however, she is dead-set on getting a telescope, get the largest refractor you can consistent with your budget and storage space. And (and this is REALLY important) - get one with a solid base or tripod and a focuser that isn't made out of crap metal. Trust me in this...

Don't shop in a toy shop for it, and don't be scared to ask hard questions like "how robust is this?" She's (?) six years old. No matter how gentle and careful she'll be, she'll be unskilled in its operation. Expect damage.

Please feel free to ask more questions if any of this doesn't make sense!

MG1962 · 14th October 2011, 09:00 PM

Apollo - About 10 years ago i saw photos of one of those made from a watermelon

fishbait · 14th October 2011, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by BTMO

This may sound a bit odd, but try sounding her out about binoculars. While telescopes are fun, they can be a bit of a one trick pony.

I agree. After viewing the Moon, Jupiter, and Saturn, most other astro objects are simply points of light. The interest fades rapidly if you are not a serious astronomer. A good set of binoculars is much better for viewing star fields, constellations, the Andromeda Galaxy, and many other objects.

Try to find an astronomy club in your area which ,I'm sure, will be delighted to guide you in choosing the right instrument for your daughter. They may invite the two of you to a viewing party so you can be better informed about telescopes and binoculars suitable for astronomy.

Here's an image of Jupiter and three of the larger moons. I was out at night shootings hi-speed ballistic photos with strobe lights and a 200mm macro lens when I noticed Jupiter. My 9x60 binoculars render an image just like this on a night with steady atmosphere.

geni · 14th October 2011, 09:50 PM

One thing to consider is how dark is it where you are? Skyglow is a pain.

Without going for very serious stuff binoculars much better than telescope. Get somewhere dark and you don't even need to know where things are. Just point them at any fuzzy part of the sky.

Buckaroo · 14th October 2011, 10:18 PM

I agree on the binocular idea. However, for not too much more you can ALSO get her a Galileoscope. I got mine when they were only 20 bucks, but the price has gone up a little since then. This, combined with a $20 tripod from Sears, showed me two (maybe three) cloud bands on Jupiter, along with all the of the Galilean moons. And the views of the Moon are spectacular. (It's also fun to put it together.) I've got an 8" reflector as well, but recently I've been using my Galileoscope more often -- it's a perfect grab 'n go scope. Also check out the Orion site: http://www.telescope.com/Telescopes/...es/pc/1/21.uts . They sell quality stuff at very reasonable prices.

Roboramma · 14th October 2011, 10:53 PM

My dad lives in a small town not far from Calgary, AB. Dark nights, plenty of clear skies, dry air, high elevation. Should be ideal for astronomy. Thought I'd get him a telescope for his 60th b-day.

Anyway, just thanks for the thread, going to look through it all!

BTMO · 14th October 2011, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by Roboramma

My dad lives in a small town not far from Calgary, AB. Dark nights, plenty of clear skies, dry air, high elevation. Should be ideal for astronomy. Thought I'd get him a telescope for his 60th b-day.

Anyway, just thanks for the thread, going to look through it all!

Please tell me it is Acme!!

I was in Calgary not that long ago (fantastic place, btw!) - and Acme was one of the "what the hell..." places I wanted to have a look at.

ETA: Whoops! Forgot to mention - while we were there, we ducked out the fields neae Crossiron Mills (a large shopping centre) where the sky was darker than in the city. We went there to observe the aurora borealis. First time I'd seen the auroroa for about 12 years. It was quite cool.

Hellbound · 15th October 2011, 06:22 AM

Thanks for the comments, all.

I like the idea of binoculars, and I may look into that. My parents have a small telescope, so at this point I'm thinking about borrowing that for a bit and see what can be seen.

As to price, I'd like to stay under $200, whatever we end up getting.

So, if I went with binoculars, what size and power should we look for? 50x 55mm? I'm just not sure what would be enough to show something useful and interesting, so that's more of where my questions are aimed.

ETA: Thanks for the pic, fishbait. That looks to be a good target to shoot for, something around 60 power or higher.

ETA2: Also thanks to LowPro, I'll check the other thread and maybe shoot kookbreaker a PM. I beleive he runs a science store, as well, so he might actually have something good in stock, too

fishbait · 15th October 2011, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Hellbound

ETA: Thanks for the pic, fishbait. That looks to be a good target to shoot for, something around 60 power or higher.

The 60 in the 9x60 means the aperture of the front lens (objective) is 60mm diameter. The 9 is the magnification (power) provided by the rear lens (eyepiece).

Binoculars, like telescopes, are light gathering instruments. The larger the tube, the more light reaching the eyepiece which is the magnification part of the instrument. 60mm objective is good for astronomy.

With a budget of $200 I would stick with binoculars. I think a $200 telescope will be very disappointing.

ApolloGnomon · 15th October 2011, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by fishbait

The 60 in the 9x60 means the aperture of the front lens (objective) is 60mm diameter. The 9 is the magnification (power) provided by the rear lens (eyepiece).

Binoculars, like telescopes, are light gathering instruments. The larger the tube, the more light reaching the eyepiece which is the magnification part of the instrument. 60mm objective is good for astronomy.

With a budget of $200 I would stick with binoculars. I think a $200 telescope will be very disappointing.

The Devil came up to an astronomer and offered him great power.

"Okay," the astronomer said. "But I'd prefer aperture."

$200 is a lot of binocular, but very very little telescope. "Santa" bought our astroscan on eBay, which saved some money so "he" could also afford a microscope.

My kids and I went out last night with the Astroscan. Moisture in the air and a big fat gibbous moon made it hard to see much, and the Astroscan isn't really easy to aim at specific things.

BenBurch · 15th October 2011, 03:25 PM

I would recommend talking to the proprietor of Spectrum Scientifics (who is a JREFer) - http://www.spectrum-scientifics.com/

slow lurker · 15th October 2011, 05:08 PM

Binoculars are my normal recommendation.
However, binoculars might pose problems for a 6 year old.
Can she hold them steady enough to get a good view? The weight and position might be a problem.
Not all binoculars can be adjusted so the eyepieces are close enough for a two-eyed view by a person with a small adult or child size head.
The Galileo Scope or better yet, one of the short-tube 80's on a tripod would look like a "real" telescope and might prove to be more usable for a 6 year old.

Just my opinion.

ApolloGnomon · 15th October 2011, 08:55 PM

I looked at the site listed above and saw some nice stuff in the "just over" $200 range. If your budget can be flexible to a limited degree it looks like you could get a nice start with something that, as Slow Lurker says, looks like a "real" telescope."

Tim Thompson · 15th October 2011, 09:45 PM

My first recommendation is the Orion SkyQuest Xt4.5, a 4.5-inch Newtonian reflector on a Dobsonian mount. It is above your $200 limit but it's the perfect telescope for a first grader, if only because it's just about the only telescope you can buy that is the same size as the kid, while still a high quality instrument. My wife has one she brings to public star parties because the regular astronomers are paranoid (for good reason) about letting little kids touch the expensive telescopes. So she just plops down the SkyQuest and let's the kids use it themselves.

Failing that, the StarBlast comes in right on the nose on your price mark. I think the SkyQuest is better by virtue of being easier to use, but the StarBlast is the same aperture (4.5 inches). I don't have one but it looks to also be a good physical size for a 1st grader.

In general I like the binocular idea, but probably not for a child that small because they have a much harder time holding binoculars steady. Binoculars are also more expensive than small telescopes, at least the ones worth buying are.

Where ever you live, you should look around for local astronomy clubs. They usually have public observing events ("star parties") that would be good for both of you to see and look through lots of different kinds of telescopes, from the cheap to the expensive and even the home-made (it's mechanically easier than you think to build your own from scratch, but it does take up a lot of time; I've seen 6-year olds do it, but that seems more of an exception than the rule as they usually lack the patience required).

Hellbound · 16th October 2011, 08:00 AM

Thanks, all for the suggestions.

Looks like I'm going to have to spend more to get something decent, which is disappointing. I don't want to spend that much money on something that she might decide she doesn't like anymore in 3 months. On the other hand, a decent look could help her like it more, so you can understand the delimma.

I think I've got a plan now, for the interim. As I said above, my parents have a telescope they'll let us borrow (not sure of the stats on it, but I'll find out today). IIRC it's about a 2 inch refractor. Not sure on the quality. It's probably decent but not great; my mom was a science teacher and she got it while working in that capacity. But, that will give her something to work with for the time being to see if she likes it.

Following other advice, I'll probably look for a good set of binoculars. I had a set a while back, some Bushnells that were (I think) 2-12 power and 50mm aperature; if I can find those they should be alright. If not, I need a good set of binos anyway so I'm more comfortable spending on that. If she stays with it then we'll look for something larger and more expensive later, maybe for her birthday next year. As for holding them, you can find stands for binoculars; if nothing else I can jury-rig something with a camera stand and some zip ties

I think I'll also look around and see if there are any astronomy clubs in the area that she and I could hook up with. I think part of the advantage there is that we'd be able to find people that do have larger scopes, that she could look through. Not to mention they'd be able to show her all the other stuff that goes along with it that I'm not familiar with.

All that being said, can anyone recommend a good book for beginners? Something that shows how to work the telescope, gives pointers on choosing and using a scope or binoculars, pointers on how to find objects to see, that sort of thing?

And, as always, thanks a bunch to everyone in the thread. I always know the mass of collective knowledge here can help out, especially with any science-related questions

P.S. to fishbait: Doh! I knew that (about power and aperature), I thought that when I was writing, but apparently had some sort of mini-siezure while typing (yeah, that's the ticket) andf typed the wrong thing.

Thanks!

kookbreaker · 16th October 2011, 10:20 AM

My suggestion would be to get a telescope she can pick up and carry outside herself, if not now then in at least within a couple of years. This would limit choices a bit and you'd have to 'test' to see how much she can lift.

The Orion Observer 60 and Observer 70 are very light but can be a bit bulky for a small girl.

The StarBlast 4.5, on the other hand, is more compact but heavier due to the weight of the furniture (particle board). It has the aperture to be impressive however.

http://www.spectrum-scientifics.com/...d=action&key=9

Expect that at times she may ignore the telescope, sometimes for months at a time - and then use it a bunch of nights in the row. Getting her a 1st time good experience is the best way to keep her interest, and keeping the experience simple is the best way.

I'd stay away from computerized telescopes, they cause more harm than good.

kookbreaker · 16th October 2011, 10:22 AM

The problem with many binoculars and small children is that they are not sized for them. They end up having the look through one eye at a time. Or you get a compact set that lacks aperture. It can be a bit frustrating for kids.

fishbait · 17th October 2011, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by Hellbound

All that being said, can anyone recommend a good book for beginners? Something that shows how to work the telescope, ....

Look through the small end!

Google "Binocular Astronomy". There are several available but I am not familiar enough to give a recommendation. Maybe try an astronomy forum? I bet you'll get a bunch of suggestions from these guys.

Whatever you decide to get, I would suggest that you make an effort to do everything possible to make her experience rewarding enough to hold her interest. To that end, the members of astronomy clubs are the best resource. From my experience, they are very eager to foster interest in astronomy among youngsters.

Bob001 · 17th October 2011, 09:00 AM

Couple thoughts: Checking in with local astronomy clubs is a great idea. They often have public stargazing evenings where you could talk to a lot of people and see a lot of equipment. It's also a place where your daughter can get a realistic idea of what she might be able to see and not see: Moon craters and Saturn's rings, yes; space aliens and starships, no. If you go with binoculars, many models, especially the better ones, have connectors that allow you to mount them to a tripod. That would allow you to adjust it to her height and allow her to look at an object or section of sky without having to hold them up, which can be tiring even for adults. Note that the above web site also offers big-objective binoculars for sky viewing, and is a good source of general information about telescope and binocular design, construction and use:

http://www.telescope.com/Binoculars/...rs/pc/5/68.uts

Also, emphasize that whatever you get is for night-time viewing only, ideally with you around. Some kids want to go out during the day and look at the sun, with disastrous results.

Beady · 18th October 2011, 03:46 AM

First, virtually anything larger than binoculars can resolve planets into disks, as far out as Jupiter; any other planets and all moons but our own will remain nothing more than specks. Forget about any deep space objects in anything less than a 5".

That said, for a first grader, the astroscan might be a good choice, or possibly a Dobsonian; these would give the most scope for the fewest dollars. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having her concentrate on the moon until she gets the hang of things. I'd strongly suggest she be given a good moon chart and/or atlas to use alongside her scope so she can put what she sees into context; she will soon get bored looking at unfamiliar objects that never move, unless she can at least "connect the dots" of what she sees.

Most of non-lunar astronomy consists of trying to resolve really dim and fuzzy patches that can't be seen with the naked eye, and can barely be seen with the 'scope.

WARNING: Children who shoot guns have the First Law of Shooting drilled into them: "There's no such thing as an unloaded gun." Children with telescopes should similarly have the First Law of Astronomy drilled into them: "Never look at the sun."

Hellbound · 18th October 2011, 08:09 AM

Well, all, thanks a BUNCH for the advice.

We've got my parents telescope, which is a cheap ($80) refractor that's about a 1.5" to 2" aperature (just guessing from looking at the big end, haven't broken out the instructions and manuals and such). It rates at 50x and 100x, and doesn't list aperature, and has space telescope pics on the box, so I suspect it's one of those I've been warned about, but it's something. And it is small enough for her carry.

On the plus side, there is a local astonomical society and they're holding a public viewing on the 29th of this month, so that seems rather fortuitous. They only hold three a year, so it was great that the timing worked out so well. Also, there's a chance to get lucky; they'll be holding a drawing to win a 5" reflector

.

kookbreaker, thanks for your responses. I think we'll use the cheap telescope for now, and take her to the public viewing being held here. If she decides she likes it, and still wants a telescope instead of toys by Christmas, then I may well pick up the StarBlast you recommended. I'll be too darned proud of her not to

BenBurch · 18th October 2011, 08:45 AM

Probably a 60 mm F 12.5 as that is the usual for that sort of thing, Hellbound. It will almost undoubtedly have .965" eyepieces which are properly microscope type. Most more serious telescopes will have 1.25" eyepieces or even 2" or 2.5" focussers in which you would use 1.25" eyepieces in adapters unless you wanted some really wide field Erfle or some such which would be sized for the large barrel.

kookbreaker · 18th October 2011, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Beady

First, virtually anything larger than binoculars can resolve planets into disks, as far out as Jupiter; any other planets and all moons but our own will remain nothing more than specks. Forget about any deep space objects in anything less than a 5".

I would disagree, several DSO's are quite visible in smaller telescopes: Orion Nebula, Andromeda Galaxy (this ignores the Pleides), etc.

Floyd312 · 18th October 2011, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Bob001

Couple thoughts: Checking in with local astronomy clubs is a great idea. They often have public stargazing evenings where you could talk to a lot of people and see a lot of equipment. It's also a place where your daughter can get a realistic idea of what she might be able to see and not see

I agree that visiting a local astronomy club is an excellent idea. If you go to one of their public star parties you will be able to experience a wide range of equipment.

Even if you can't afford an expensive telescope to start with, giving your daughter the opportunity to look through good scopes at a star party could really help establish a strong interest. She will get an idea of what is possible with equipment that she can realistically hope to own someday.

The club members can also help you decide what equipment would be appropriate and rewarding for your daughter to start with.

And, regardless, you might find that visiting one of these star parties would be a fun (and often free) outing for you and your daughter.

Most importantly, whatever you ultimately decide, I hope that your daughter and you have much fun and enjoyment. Astronomy can be an extremely rewarding hobby and, at your daughter's age, who knows where it could lead.

Don

jasonpatterson · 18th October 2011, 07:56 PM

It would be nice if the binoculars worked out, but I've got to go with the folks who have said that they aren't sized appropriately for kids. Even a smallish pair of binoculars like these Pentax compacts get pretty heavy for a little kid to hold. They also just can't keep them still enough to watch anything. Basically, if you decide to go with binoculars, you'll definitely need to buy a tripod to go with them.

My daughter in kindergarten likes looking through my scope, but aside from big things with lots of features (the moon, Saturn, Jupiter) she winds up getting bored pretty quickly. It's also going to be getting cold soon, and unless you're daughter is a real trooper, you're going to have a heck of a time getting her outside at night and keeping her still long enough to look at much of anything. Best of luck in any case.

Hellbound · 19th October 2011, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by Floyd312

I agree that visiting a local astronomy club is an excellent idea. If you go to one of their public star parties you will be able to experience a wide range of equipment.

Even if you can't afford an expensive telescope to start with, giving your daughter the opportunity to look through good scopes at a star party could really help establish a strong interest. She will get an idea of what is possible with equipment that she can realistically hope to own someday.

The club members can also help you decide what equipment would be appropriate and rewarding for your daughter to start with.

And, regardless, you might find that visiting one of these star parties would be a fun (and often free) outing for you and your daughter.

Most importantly, whatever you ultimately decide, I hope that your daughter and you have much fun and enjoyment. Astronomy can be an extremely rewarding hobby and, at your daughter's age, who knows where it could lead.

Don

That pretty much mirrors my thinking, almost to a "T". We're planning on teh public viewing, because I'd like to establish a strong interest. Well, not so much that as I'd like to avoid killing her interest in it because of bad equipment, when it wouldn't have been otherwise.

We're doing the public viewiing, and the society only charges $20 a year for a basic membership, so I'm going to look into it a bit more as well.

I've always been interested in astronomy, but more on an academic level rather than working witht eh telescopes. Just never had a lot of time and equipment for it; so I'm playing catch up. And it should be fun

Now if I can just get my son interested in something besides computer games (says the Dad who stills plays a lot of computer games

).

Beady · 19th October 2011, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Hellbound

Now if I can just get my son interested in something besides computer games (says the Dad who stills plays a lot of computer games

).

I don't see any contradiction. He has a life ahead of him; yours is over.

Hellbound · 19th October 2011, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by Beady

I don't see any contradiction. He has a life ahead of him; yours is over.

Thank you for that upbeat note

JoeTheJuggler · 19th October 2011, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by fishbait

With a budget of $200 I would stick with binoculars. I think a $200 telescope will be very disappointing.

I second this--unless of course you find an amazing deal on a second hand telescope.

JoeTheJuggler · 19th October 2011, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Floyd312

I agree that visiting a local astronomy club is an excellent idea. If you go to one of their public star parties you will be able to experience a wide range of equipment.

Ditto this. I understand our local club even has a couple of telescopes they're willing to lend to people under the right circumstances.

BenBurch · 19th October 2011, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

I would disagree, several DSO's are quite visible in smaller telescopes: Orion Nebula, Andromeda Galaxy (this ignores the Pleides), etc.

In my youth, I saw M-57 with my 60mm Sears telescope. Wasn't much to write home about though.

14th October 2011, 05:23 PM	#1
Hellbound Abiogenic Spongiform Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a handbasket Posts: 8,924	Home Telescopes Well, my daughter has decided she wants a telescope now for Christmas. Consdiering she's in first grade, and she wants this even if she can't get any toys, I think this is a good sign. That being said, I'd like to get her something that's actually decent, and I don't know enough about it. So, I'm relying on the expert and knowledgable advice of our JREF members to help this burgeoning young sceptic develop scientific interest (hopefully now I've talked you all up enough to get free advice). Anyway, I'd like to look into something that could actually resovle some of the planets in the solar system to visibile disks. I figure that's probably going to be expensive, asnd was wondering if anyone knew what sort of power levels I'd need for that. Also, if you have any suggestions on which ones to buy, and similar things, I'd appreciate it. That wil help me price it out and see what we can afford to get her.
	Last edited by Hellbound; 14th October 2011 at 05:28 PM.

14th October 2011, 05:39 PM	#3
ApolloGnomon Aluminum Tripod Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Time Zone Zed Zed Plural Zed Alpha Posts: 1,910	A few years ago "santa" brought one of these to our house. What it lacks in sophistication it makes up for in ruggedness. Not ideal for looking at stuff like the moons of Jupiter (Gonna get it out tonight and see what we can anyway, now that the moon is somewhat out of the way) but not bad for looking at the moon, and it has pretty good light gathering so you can see some of the dim largish deep space things. We have a little tripod that it comes with, too, which makes it better than just putting it on the stand. Kids have pretty short attention spans for looking at blobs of light through a hole, so this actually works out okay for us. I'd like something with a proper equatorial mount next.
	__________________ Lunar Sample Compendium ............Apollo Lunar Surface Journal "I'm ignoring the rest of your foaming rant. " JayUtah

14th October 2011, 06:06 PM	#4
Lowpro Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 4,520	Kookbreaker here is your guy. I put a similar thread here about a month ago and it should have you some good info. I myself am getting an Apex for Christmas because it's so small and easy to transport. But yea, Kookbreaker is all you need.
	__________________ "If I actually believed that Jesus was coming to end the world in 2050, I'd be preparing by stocking up on timber and nails" - PZ Myers

14th October 2011, 08:37 PM	#5
temporalillusion Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canada's Texas Posts: 1,163	Our school had one of those Astroscans when I was in Jr. High, I borrowed it many a weekend. Good scope to mess around with.
	__________________ One man's reason that something is not reliable evidence is another man's whine about how others won't buy 3 magic beans with the family cow. - hgc

14th October 2011, 08:57 PM	#6
BTMO Overlord of the Underthings Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Wellington, New Zealand. Posts: 2,345	This may sound a bit odd, but try sounding her out about binoculars. While telescopes are fun, they can be a bit of a one trick pony. With a nice pair of binoculars , she can look at things to the size of Jupiter's moons, the craters on our moon AND she can use them for birdwatching and a bunch of other stuff. 8x50's are a good starting point, but don't get caught with the idea that more magnification is good. You are actually better off getting slightly less magnification and wider apeture objective lenses. If, however, she is dead-set on getting a telescope, get the largest refractor you can consistent with your budget and storage space. And (and this is REALLY important) - get one with a solid base or tripod and a focuser that isn't made out of crap metal. Trust me in this... Don't shop in a toy shop for it, and don't be scared to ask hard questions like "how robust is this?" She's (?) six years old. No matter how gentle and careful she'll be, she'll be unskilled in its operation. Expect damage. Please feel free to ask more questions if any of this doesn't make sense!
	__________________ Insert pithy saying here

14th October 2011, 05:33 PM	#2
MG1962 Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kansas (Australia) Posts: 14,750	Well first step would be to get a rough idea of what you want to spend

14th October 2011, 09:00 PM	#7
MG1962 Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kansas (Australia) Posts: 14,750	Apollo - About 10 years ago i saw photos of one of those made from a watermelon

14th October 2011, 09:18 PM	#8
fishbait Raggin' the Blues Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: New York Posts: 1,013	Originally Posted by BTMO This may sound a bit odd, but try sounding her out about binoculars. While telescopes are fun, they can be a bit of a one trick pony. I agree. After viewing the Moon, Jupiter, and Saturn, most other astro objects are simply points of light. The interest fades rapidly if you are not a serious astronomer. A good set of binoculars is much better for viewing star fields, constellations, the Andromeda Galaxy, and many other objects. Try to find an astronomy club in your area which ,I'm sure, will be delighted to guide you in choosing the right instrument for your daughter. They may invite the two of you to a viewing party so you can be better informed about telescopes and binoculars suitable for astronomy. Here's an image of Jupiter and three of the larger moons. I was out at night shootings hi-speed ballistic photos with strobe lights and a 200mm macro lens when I noticed Jupiter. My 9x60 binoculars render an image just like this on a night with steady atmosphere.
	__________________ "I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" ***********. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are." --Bill Hicks Last edited by fishbait; 14th October 2011 at 10:08 PM.*

14th October 2011, 09:50 PM	#9
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,568	One thing to consider is how dark is it where you are? Skyglow is a pain. Without going for very serious stuff binoculars much better than telescope. Get somewhere dark and you don't even need to know where things are. Just point them at any fuzzy part of the sky.

14th October 2011, 10:18 PM	#10
Buckaroo Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 1,717	I agree on the binocular idea. However, for not too much more you can ALSO get her a Galileoscope. I got mine when they were only 20 bucks, but the price has gone up a little since then. This, combined with a $20 tripod from Sears, showed me two (maybe three) cloud bands on Jupiter, along with all the of the Galilean moons. And the views of the Moon are spectacular. (It's also fun to put it together.) I've got an 8" reflector as well, but recently I've been using my Galileoscope more often -- it's a perfect grab 'n go scope. Also check out the Orion site: http://www.telescope.com/Telescopes/...es/pc/1/21.uts . They sell quality stuff at very reasonable prices.
	__________________ "You ask me do I love you... does the pope live in the woods? Quad Erat Demonstrandum, baby... " "Oh! You speak French!" -- Airhead, by Thomas Dolby "When you're slapped you'll take it and like it." -- Sam Spade Last edited by Buckaroo; 14th October 2011 at 10:19 PM.

14th October 2011, 10:53 PM	#11
Roboramma Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shanghai Posts: 7,095	My dad lives in a small town not far from Calgary, AB. Dark nights, plenty of clear skies, dry air, high elevation. Should be ideal for astronomy. Thought I'd get him a telescope for his 60th b-day. Anyway, just thanks for the thread, going to look through it all!
	__________________ "... when people thought the Earth was flat, they were wrong. When people thought the Earth was spherical they were wrong. But if you think that thinking the Earth is spherical is just as wrong as thinking the Earth is flat, then your view is wronger than both of them put together." Isaac Asimov

14th October 2011, 11:13 PM	#12
BTMO Overlord of the Underthings Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Wellington, New Zealand. Posts: 2,345	Originally Posted by Roboramma My dad lives in a small town not far from Calgary, AB. Dark nights, plenty of clear skies, dry air, high elevation. Should be ideal for astronomy. Thought I'd get him a telescope for his 60th b-day. Anyway, just thanks for the thread, going to look through it all! Please tell me it is Acme!! I was in Calgary not that long ago (fantastic place, btw!) - and Acme was one of the "what the hell..." places I wanted to have a look at. ETA: Whoops! Forgot to mention - while we were there, we ducked out the fields neae Crossiron Mills (a large shopping centre) where the sky was darker than in the city. We went there to observe the aurora borealis. First time I'd seen the auroroa for about 12 years. It was quite cool.
	__________________ Insert pithy saying here Last edited by BTMO; 14th October 2011 at 11:25 PM.

15th October 2011, 06:22 AM	#13
Hellbound Abiogenic Spongiform Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a handbasket Posts: 8,924	Thanks for the comments, all. I like the idea of binoculars, and I may look into that. My parents have a small telescope, so at this point I'm thinking about borrowing that for a bit and see what can be seen. As to price, I'd like to stay under $200, whatever we end up getting. So, if I went with binoculars, what size and power should we look for? 50x 55mm? I'm just not sure what would be enough to show something useful and interesting, so that's more of where my questions are aimed. ETA: Thanks for the pic, fishbait. That looks to be a good target to shoot for, something around 60 power or higher. ETA2: Also thanks to LowPro, I'll check the other thread and maybe shoot kookbreaker a PM. I beleive he runs a science store, as well, so he might actually have something good in stock, too
	Last edited by Hellbound; 15th October 2011 at 06:40 AM.

15th October 2011, 01:45 PM	#14
fishbait Raggin' the Blues Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: New York Posts: 1,013	Originally Posted by Hellbound ETA: Thanks for the pic, fishbait. That looks to be a good target to shoot for, something around 60 power or higher. The 60 in the 9x60 means the aperture of the front lens (objective) is 60mm diameter. The 9 is the magnification (power) provided by the rear lens (eyepiece). Binoculars, like telescopes, are light gathering instruments. The larger the tube, the more light reaching the eyepiece which is the magnification part of the instrument. 60mm objective is good for astronomy. With a budget of $200 I would stick with binoculars. I think a $200 telescope will be very disappointing.
	__________________ "I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" ***********. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are." --Bill Hicks Last edited by fishbait; 15th October 2011 at 02:00 PM.*

15th October 2011, 02:52 PM	#15
ApolloGnomon Aluminum Tripod Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Time Zone Zed Zed Plural Zed Alpha Posts: 1,910	Originally Posted by fishbait The 60 in the 9x60 means the aperture of the front lens (objective) is 60mm diameter. The 9 is the magnification (power) provided by the rear lens (eyepiece). Binoculars, like telescopes, are light gathering instruments. The larger the tube, the more light reaching the eyepiece which is the magnification part of the instrument. 60mm objective is good for astronomy. With a budget of $200 I would stick with binoculars. I think a $200 telescope will be very disappointing. The Devil came up to an astronomer and offered him great power. "Okay," the astronomer said. "But I'd prefer aperture." $200 is a lot of binocular, but very very little telescope. "Santa" bought our astroscan on eBay, which saved some money so "he" could also afford a microscope. My kids and I went out last night with the Astroscan. Moisture in the air and a big fat gibbous moon made it hard to see much, and the Astroscan isn't really easy to aim at specific things.
	__________________ Lunar Sample Compendium ............Apollo Lunar Surface Journal "I'm ignoring the rest of your foaming rant. " JayUtah

15th October 2011, 03:25 PM	#16
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,162	I would recommend talking to the proprietor of Spectrum Scientifics (who is a JREFer) - http://www.spectrum-scientifics.com/
	__________________ Are you IN? Join the IN crowd now!

15th October 2011, 05:08 PM	#17
slow lurker Scholar Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 51	Binoculars are my normal recommendation. However, binoculars might pose problems for a 6 year old. Can she hold them steady enough to get a good view? The weight and position might be a problem. Not all binoculars can be adjusted so the eyepieces are close enough for a two-eyed view by a person with a small adult or child size head. The Galileo Scope or better yet, one of the short-tube 80's on a tripod would look like a "real" telescope and might prove to be more usable for a 6 year old. Just my opinion.
slow lurker Scholar Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 51

15th October 2011, 08:55 PM	#18
ApolloGnomon Aluminum Tripod Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Time Zone Zed Zed Plural Zed Alpha Posts: 1,910	I looked at the site listed above and saw some nice stuff in the "just over" $200 range. If your budget can be flexible to a limited degree it looks like you could get a nice start with something that, as Slow Lurker says, looks like a "real" telescope."
	__________________ Lunar Sample Compendium ............Apollo Lunar Surface Journal "I'm ignoring the rest of your foaming rant. " JayUtah

15th October 2011, 09:45 PM	#19
Tim Thompson Muse Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: San Gabriel Valley, east of Los Angeles Posts: 963	Home Telescopes My first recommendation is the Orion SkyQuest Xt4.5, a 4.5-inch Newtonian reflector on a Dobsonian mount. It is above your $200 limit but it's the perfect telescope for a first grader, if only because it's just about the only telescope you can buy that is the same size as the kid, while still a high quality instrument. My wife has one she brings to public star parties because the regular astronomers are paranoid (for good reason) about letting little kids touch the expensive telescopes. So she just plops down the SkyQuest and let's the kids use it themselves. Failing that, the StarBlast comes in right on the nose on your price mark. I think the SkyQuest is better by virtue of being easier to use, but the StarBlast is the same aperture (4.5 inches). I don't have one but it looks to also be a good physical size for a 1st grader. In general I like the binocular idea, but probably not for a child that small because they have a much harder time holding binoculars steady. Binoculars are also more expensive than small telescopes, at least the ones worth buying are. Where ever you live, you should look around for local astronomy clubs. They usually have public observing events ("star parties") that would be good for both of you to see and look through lots of different kinds of telescopes, from the cheap to the expensive and even the home-made (it's mechanically easier than you think to build your own from scratch, but it does take up a lot of time; I've seen 6-year olds do it, but that seems more of an exception than the rule as they usually lack the patience required).
	__________________ The point of philosophy is to start with something so simple as not to seem worth stating, and to end with something so paradoxical that no one will believe it. -- Bertrand Russell

16th October 2011, 08:00 AM	#20
Hellbound Abiogenic Spongiform Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a handbasket Posts: 8,924	Thanks, all for the suggestions. Looks like I'm going to have to spend more to get something decent, which is disappointing. I don't want to spend that much money on something that she might decide she doesn't like anymore in 3 months. On the other hand, a decent look could help her like it more, so you can understand the delimma. I think I've got a plan now, for the interim. As I said above, my parents have a telescope they'll let us borrow (not sure of the stats on it, but I'll find out today). IIRC it's about a 2 inch refractor. Not sure on the quality. It's probably decent but not great; my mom was a science teacher and she got it while working in that capacity. But, that will give her something to work with for the time being to see if she likes it. Following other advice, I'll probably look for a good set of binoculars. I had a set a while back, some Bushnells that were (I think) 2-12 power and 50mm aperature; if I can find those they should be alright. If not, I need a good set of binos anyway so I'm more comfortable spending on that. If she stays with it then we'll look for something larger and more expensive later, maybe for her birthday next year. As for holding them, you can find stands for binoculars; if nothing else I can jury-rig something with a camera stand and some zip ties I think I'll also look around and see if there are any astronomy clubs in the area that she and I could hook up with. I think part of the advantage there is that we'd be able to find people that do have larger scopes, that she could look through. Not to mention they'd be able to show her all the other stuff that goes along with it that I'm not familiar with. All that being said, can anyone recommend a good book for beginners? Something that shows how to work the telescope, gives pointers on choosing and using a scope or binoculars, pointers on how to find objects to see, that sort of thing? And, as always, thanks a bunch to everyone in the thread. I always know the mass of collective knowledge here can help out, especially with any science-related questions P.S. to fishbait: Doh! I knew that (about power and aperature), I thought that when I was writing, but apparently had some sort of mini-siezure while typing (yeah, that's the ticket) andf typed the wrong thing. Thanks!

16th October 2011, 10:20 AM	#21
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,178	My suggestion would be to get a telescope she can pick up and carry outside herself, if not now then in at least within a couple of years. This would limit choices a bit and you'd have to 'test' to see how much she can lift. The Orion Observer 60 and Observer 70 are very light but can be a bit bulky for a small girl. The StarBlast 4.5, on the other hand, is more compact but heavier due to the weight of the furniture (particle board). It has the aperture to be impressive however. http://www.spectrum-scientifics.com/...d=action&key=9 Expect that at times she may ignore the telescope, sometimes for months at a time - and then use it a bunch of nights in the row. Getting her a 1st time good experience is the best way to keep her interest, and keeping the experience simple is the best way. I'd stay away from computerized telescopes, they cause more harm than good.
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,178	__________________ Thanks for helping me win Best Children's Gifts and Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011 & 2012! Spectrum Scientifics - My store - Google it people!

16th October 2011, 10:22 AM	#22
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,178	The problem with many binoculars and small children is that they are not sized for them. They end up having the look through one eye at a time. Or you get a compact set that lacks aperture. It can be a bit frustrating for kids.
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,178	__________________ Thanks for helping me win Best Children's Gifts and Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011 & 2012! Spectrum Scientifics - My store - Google it people!

17th October 2011, 07:36 AM	#23
fishbait Raggin' the Blues Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: New York Posts: 1,013	Originally Posted by Hellbound All that being said, can anyone recommend a good book for beginners? Something that shows how to work the telescope, .... Look through the small end! Google "Binocular Astronomy". There are several available but I am not familiar enough to give a recommendation. Maybe try an astronomy forum? I bet you'll get a bunch of suggestions from these guys. Whatever you decide to get, I would suggest that you make an effort to do everything possible to make her experience rewarding enough to hold her interest. To that end, the members of astronomy clubs are the best resource. From my experience, they are very eager to foster interest in astronomy among youngsters.
	__________________ "I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" ************. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are." --Bill Hicks

17th October 2011, 09:00 AM	#24
Bob001 Muse Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 883	Couple thoughts: Checking in with local astronomy clubs is a great idea. They often have public stargazing evenings where you could talk to a lot of people and see a lot of equipment. It's also a place where your daughter can get a realistic idea of what she might be able to see and not see: Moon craters and Saturn's rings, yes; space aliens and starships, no. If you go with binoculars, many models, especially the better ones, have connectors that allow you to mount them to a tripod. That would allow you to adjust it to her height and allow her to look at an object or section of sky without having to hold them up, which can be tiring even for adults. Note that the above web site also offers big-objective binoculars for sky viewing, and is a good source of general information about telescope and binocular design, construction and use: http://www.telescope.com/Binoculars/...rs/pc/5/68.uts Also, emphasize that whatever you get is for night-time viewing only, ideally with you around. Some kids want to go out during the day and look at the sun, with disastrous results.
Bob001 Muse Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 883	Last edited by Bob001; 17th October 2011 at 09:26 AM.

18th October 2011, 03:46 AM	#25
Beady Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: 44:57:19N, 73:16:18W Posts: 5,490	First, virtually anything larger than binoculars can resolve planets into disks, as far out as Jupiter; any other planets and all moons but our own will remain nothing more than specks. Forget about any deep space objects in anything less than a 5". That said, for a first grader, the astroscan might be a good choice, or possibly a Dobsonian; these would give the most scope for the fewest dollars. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having her concentrate on the moon until she gets the hang of things. I'd strongly suggest she be given a good moon chart and/or atlas to use alongside her scope so she can put what she sees into context; she will soon get bored looking at unfamiliar objects that never move, unless she can at least "connect the dots" of what she sees. Most of non-lunar astronomy consists of trying to resolve really dim and fuzzy patches that can't be seen with the naked eye, and can barely be seen with the 'scope. WARNING: Children who shoot guns have the First Law of Shooting drilled into them: "There's no such thing as an unloaded gun." Children with telescopes should similarly have the First Law of Astronomy drilled into them: "Never look at the sun."
	__________________ I tolerate with utmost latitude the right of others to differ with me in opinion without imputing to them criminality. I know too well all the weaknesses and uncertainty of human reason to wonder at its different results. -- Thomas Jefferson Last edited by Beady; 18th October 2011 at 03:50 AM.

18th October 2011, 08:09 AM	#26
Hellbound Abiogenic Spongiform Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a handbasket Posts: 8,924	Well, all, thanks a BUNCH for the advice. We've got my parents telescope, which is a cheap ($80) refractor that's about a 1.5" to 2" aperature (just guessing from looking at the big end, haven't broken out the instructions and manuals and such). It rates at 50x and 100x, and doesn't list aperature, and has space telescope pics on the box, so I suspect it's one of those I've been warned about, but it's something. And it is small enough for her carry. On the plus side, there is a local astonomical society and they're holding a public viewing on the 29th of this month, so that seems rather fortuitous. They only hold three a year, so it was great that the timing worked out so well. Also, there's a chance to get lucky; they'll be holding a drawing to win a 5" reflector . kookbreaker, thanks for your responses. I think we'll use the cheap telescope for now, and take her to the public viewing being held here. If she decides she likes it, and still wants a telescope instead of toys by Christmas, then I may well pick up the StarBlast you recommended. I'll be too darned proud of her not to
	Last edited by Hellbound; 18th October 2011 at 08:12 AM.

18th October 2011, 08:45 AM	#27
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,162	Probably a 60 mm F 12.5 as that is the usual for that sort of thing, Hellbound. It will almost undoubtedly have .965" eyepieces which are properly microscope type. Most more serious telescopes will have 1.25" eyepieces or even 2" or 2.5" focussers in which you would use 1.25" eyepieces in adapters unless you wanted some really wide field Erfle or some such which would be sized for the large barrel.
	__________________ Are you IN? Join the IN crowd now!

18th October 2011, 02:59 PM	#28
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,178	Originally Posted by Beady First, virtually anything larger than binoculars can resolve planets into disks, as far out as Jupiter; any other planets and all moons but our own will remain nothing more than specks. Forget about any deep space objects in anything less than a 5". I would disagree, several DSO's are quite visible in smaller telescopes: Orion Nebula, Andromeda Galaxy (this ignores the Pleides), etc.
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,178	__________________ Thanks for helping me win Best Children's Gifts and Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011 & 2012! Spectrum Scientifics - My store - Google it people!

18th October 2011, 03:37 PM	#29
Floyd312 Student Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 25	Originally Posted by Bob001 Couple thoughts: Checking in with local astronomy clubs is a great idea. They often have public stargazing evenings where you could talk to a lot of people and see a lot of equipment. It's also a place where your daughter can get a realistic idea of what she might be able to see and not see I agree that visiting a local astronomy club is an excellent idea. If you go to one of their public star parties you will be able to experience a wide range of equipment. Even if you can't afford an expensive telescope to start with, giving your daughter the opportunity to look through good scopes at a star party could really help establish a strong interest. She will get an idea of what is possible with equipment that she can realistically hope to own someday. The club members can also help you decide what equipment would be appropriate and rewarding for your daughter to start with. And, regardless, you might find that visiting one of these star parties would be a fun (and often free) outing for you and your daughter. Most importantly, whatever you ultimately decide, I hope that your daughter and you have much fun and enjoyment. Astronomy can be an extremely rewarding hobby and, at your daughter's age, who knows where it could lead. Don
Floyd312 Student Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 25

18th October 2011, 07:56 PM	#30
jasonpatterson Philanthropic Misanthrope Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Space, The Final Frontier Posts: 2,182	It would be nice if the binoculars worked out, but I've got to go with the folks who have said that they aren't sized appropriately for kids. Even a smallish pair of binoculars like these Pentax compacts get pretty heavy for a little kid to hold. They also just can't keep them still enough to watch anything. Basically, if you decide to go with binoculars, you'll definitely need to buy a tripod to go with them. My daughter in kindergarten likes looking through my scope, but aside from big things with lots of features (the moon, Saturn, Jupiter) she winds up getting bored pretty quickly. It's also going to be getting cold soon, and unless you're daughter is a real trooper, you're going to have a heck of a time getting her outside at night and keeping her still long enough to look at much of anything. Best of luck in any case.
	__________________ Sandra's seen a leprechaun, Eddie touched a troll, Laurie danced with witches once, Charlie found some goblins' gold. Donald heard a mermaid sing, Susie spied an elf, But all the magic I have known I've had to make myself. - Shel Silverstein

19th October 2011, 08:07 AM	#31
Hellbound Abiogenic Spongiform Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a handbasket Posts: 8,924	Originally Posted by Floyd312 I agree that visiting a local astronomy club is an excellent idea. If you go to one of their public star parties you will be able to experience a wide range of equipment. Even if you can't afford an expensive telescope to start with, giving your daughter the opportunity to look through good scopes at a star party could really help establish a strong interest. She will get an idea of what is possible with equipment that she can realistically hope to own someday. The club members can also help you decide what equipment would be appropriate and rewarding for your daughter to start with. And, regardless, you might find that visiting one of these star parties would be a fun (and often free) outing for you and your daughter. Most importantly, whatever you ultimately decide, I hope that your daughter and you have much fun and enjoyment. Astronomy can be an extremely rewarding hobby and, at your daughter's age, who knows where it could lead. Don That pretty much mirrors my thinking, almost to a "T". We're planning on teh public viewing, because I'd like to establish a strong interest. Well, not so much that as I'd like to avoid killing her interest in it because of bad equipment, when it wouldn't have been otherwise. We're doing the public viewiing, and the society only charges $20 a year for a basic membership, so I'm going to look into it a bit more as well. I've always been interested in astronomy, but more on an academic level rather than working witht eh telescopes. Just never had a lot of time and equipment for it; so I'm playing catch up. And it should be fun Now if I can just get my son interested in something besides computer games (says the Dad who stills plays a lot of computer games ).

19th October 2011, 09:08 AM	#32
Beady Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: 44:57:19N, 73:16:18W Posts: 5,490	Originally Posted by Hellbound Now if I can just get my son interested in something besides computer games (says the Dad who stills plays a lot of computer games ). I don't see any contradiction. He has a life ahead of him; yours is over.
	__________________ I tolerate with utmost latitude the right of others to differ with me in opinion without imputing to them criminality. I know too well all the weaknesses and uncertainty of human reason to wonder at its different results. -- Thomas Jefferson

19th October 2011, 09:42 AM	#33
Hellbound Abiogenic Spongiform Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a handbasket Posts: 8,924	Originally Posted by Beady I don't see any contradiction. He has a life ahead of him; yours is over. Thank you for that upbeat note

19th October 2011, 10:00 AM	#34
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,763	Originally Posted by fishbait With a budget of $200 I would stick with binoculars. I think a $200 telescope will be very disappointing. I second this--unless of course you find an amazing deal on a second hand telescope.
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons

19th October 2011, 10:02 AM	#35
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,763	Originally Posted by Floyd312 I agree that visiting a local astronomy club is an excellent idea. If you go to one of their public star parties you will be able to experience a wide range of equipment. Ditto this. I understand our local club even has a couple of telescopes they're willing to lend to people under the right circumstances.
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons