Waverly Hills Sanatorium

Newbeak · 4th February 2012, 10:32 AM

Anybody here watch Fact or Faked? The regulars on the show seem for the most part to be level headed about the weird things they often end up debunking.I saw a recent show that looked into the now closed Waverly Hills Sanatorium in Kentucky,and found one item they looked into interesting: A child's ball moves on it's own when left in the former children's playroom.The team investigated the obvious,such as wind coming in the large windows of the playroom,but taped the ball moving on it's own when the windows were shut.I am attaching a link showing the phenomenon: http://www.mediafire.com/?mbhnan27da37aia
I suggest VLC media player to open the video.
Anybody want to speculate what is going on?

sadhatter · 4th February 2012, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Newbeak

Anybody here watch Fact or Faked? The regulars on the show seem for the most part to be level headed about the weird things they often end up debunking.I saw a recent show that looked into the now closed Waverly Hills Sanatorium in Kentucky,and found one item they looked into interesting: A child's ball moves on it's own when left in the former children's playroom.The team investigated the obvious,such as wind coming in the large windows of the playroom,but taped the ball moving on it's own when the windows were shut.I am attaching a link showing the phenomenon: http://www.mediafire.com/?mbhnan27da37aia
I suggest VLC media player to open the video.
Anybody want to speculate what is going on?

Sure, in trying to get a ratings boost they faked a ball rolling. What about this is convincing at all?

Newbeak · 4th February 2012, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by sadhatter

Sure, in trying to get a ratings boost they faked a ball rolling. What about this is convincing at all?

Yeah,that crossed my mind,but like I said, they do regularly debunk paranormal claims they feature on the show.

sadhatter · 4th February 2012, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Newbeak

Yeah,that crossed my mind,but like I said, they do regularly debunk paranormal claims they feature on the show.

... and?

It's called juxtaposition, it is an effective way to engage the audience. Even your most die hard woo is going to lose interest if every episode they find some groundbreaking new piece of the paranormal.

But please, answer the question, what about this is convincing in any way to you? To me, someone who has been involved in stage and film since an early age, it is pretty obvious it is just a different take on the ghost hunting schtick, but the evidence itself, is the same old lame, easily faked snake oil we see from all the others.

Resume · 4th February 2012, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Newbeak

Yeah,that crossed my mind,but like I said, they do regularly debunk paranormal claims they feature on the show.

If they debunked everything it would be a pretty boring show.

Which do you think is more likely, the ghost of a child is rolling the ball, or the producers of the show found a way to make the ball move?

LibraryLady · 4th February 2012, 12:54 PM

Yes, but it's February

defaultdotxbe · 4th February 2012, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by LibraryLady

Yes, but it's February

actually it was november sweeps when the waverly episode aired

jhunter1163 · 4th February 2012, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Resume

If they debunked everything it would be a pretty boring show.

Which do you think is more likely, the ghost of a child is rolling the ball, or the producers of the show found a way to make the ball move?

Or someone else. Either way, it's far more likely than any paranormal explanation.

Newbeak · 4th February 2012, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by jhunter1163

Or someone else. Either way, it's far more likely than any paranormal explanation.

Alright,I suppose you are all correct.Ratings trump the truth in the TV business.

Halfcentaur · 4th February 2012, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by sadhatter

... and?

It's called juxtaposition, it is an effective way to engage the audience. Even your most die hard woo is going to lose interest if every episode they find some groundbreaking new piece of the paranormal.

But please, answer the question, what about this is convincing in any way to you? To me, someone who has been involved in stage and film since an early age, it is pretty obvious it is just a different take on the ghost hunting schtick, but the evidence itself, is the same old lame, easily faked snake oil we see from all the others.

On the other hand, if this stuff was real at all what would be able to be captured on a show in this format that is not able to be faked?

And this is in a world where ghosts are real but only show themselves in the dark and in completely inconsistent ways, if they existed as they are seemingly presented.

If one is to dismiss that aspect of it, there was no need to even address if it was faked or not.

Newbeak · 4th February 2012, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Halfcentaur

On the other hand, if this stuff was real at all what would be able to be captured on a show in this format that is not able to be faked?

And this is in a world where ghosts are real but only show themselves in the dark and in completely inconsistent ways, if they existed as they are seemingly presented.

If one is to dismiss that aspect of it, there was no need to even address if it was faked or not.

What immediately comes to mind is Sagan's comment:"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." What I was originally looking for was some exotic but factual explanation for a ball rolling on it's own across a room,but one has to consider the possibility of fraud as well.

mike3 · 4th February 2012, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by sadhatter

... and?

It's called juxtaposition, it is an effective way to engage the audience. Even your most die hard woo is going to lose interest if every episode they find some groundbreaking new piece of the paranormal.

But please, answer the question, what about this is convincing in any way to you? To me, someone who has been involved in stage and film since an early age, it is pretty obvious it is just a different take on the ghost hunting schtick, but the evidence itself, is the same old lame, easily faked snake oil we see from all the others.

Bingo. The vast majority haven't. So what's "obvious" to you may not be obvious to everyone else.

Pope130 · 4th February 2012, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Newbeak

Alright,I suppose you are all correct.Ratings trump the truth in the TV business.

A BBC photographer once explained the TV business to me this way:
"Good film is better than a good picture, a good picture is better than a good story, and a good story is better than the truth."

He was riding along with us to Bosnia to get the good film.

Learjet · 5th February 2012, 06:50 PM

We discus fact or faked quite a bit on skeptical view forums, and we tend to give them a thrashing. I think from memory the floor where the ball was on wasn't level and eventually as happens with round objects and uneven surfaces it will move.

Every now and then the show makes a good call, but in general it's utter rubbish. Our all time favourite was the caretaker / cutter episode where they didn't recognise an orb spider with it's web, calling it paranormal lol.

steve s · 5th February 2012, 07:14 PM

A radio controlled ball...

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Steve S

sadhatter · 6th February 2012, 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by Halfcentaur

On the other hand, if this stuff was real at all what would be able to be captured on a show in this format that is not able to be faked?

And this is in a world where ghosts are real but only show themselves in the dark and in completely inconsistent ways, if they existed as they are seemingly presented.

If one is to dismiss that aspect of it, there was no need to even address if it was faked or not.

The problem is that a real paranormal researcher would not use this format for this very reason.

It is prone to every kind of trickery, and as media in general, ratings trump truth and science, de facto making those that would choose this as a method, suspect at worst, very dim witted at best. Both groups that would have little chance of actually finding the paranormal.

sadhatter · 6th February 2012, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by Newbeak

What immediately comes to mind is Sagan's comment:"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." What I was originally looking for was some exotic but factual explanation for a ball rolling on it's own across a room,but one has to consider the possibility of fraud as well.

The problem is in the assumption that the ball did roll on its own across the room.

Why try and find the real thing when it is easier and cheaper to fake it? If their interest wasn't in fame, but the paranormal, they wouldn't be on television. Trust me, i know how these shows work, and only via my own morality am i not acting ( and yes acting is the correct term.) in one at this very moment.

Lamuella · 6th February 2012, 05:37 AM

isn't it funny how the more advanced our recording devices get, the less apparent evidence of "ghosts" becomes? Ghosts seem to have switched entirely from being transparent to fully visible people into being bumping objects and blurry lights. Who knew they were so fashion conscious?

Learjet · 6th February 2012, 08:13 AM

Ghosts are very versatile these days. Just by watching TV I have learned that...

Spirits appear in photos as orbs that look exactly like dust.

They create cold spots, except when on thermal cameras when they appear as hot spots.

They manipulate and create electromagnetic fields and all variations thereof, even near powerlines.

They transmit voice on the FM and AM radio band when used with Frank's box. As such they are wanted by the FCC, ACMA and Ofcom for radio piracy.

They knock on command and create footsteps, especially in buildings adjusting to thermal changes.

They turn flashlights on and off, but only when the flashlight is in thermal oscillation.

They appear as shadows in the dark which strangely can be seen.

They speak into audio recorders without being heard until playback.

They move balls, knock over objects, and slant pictures hanging on the wall but are unable to levitate anything on command.

They trip people over.

They appear at the end of your bed after you've been asleep.

They whistle.

They posses people on Paranormal State, Ghost Adventures but not on Ghost Hunters where they are all friendly.

All commercial premises that conduct ghost tours and are in need of funding are haunted.

They talk to mediums but never give any real useful information.

Demons are fierce, scary and exceedingly powerful, but as yet have not taken over the world or even a tiny part of it.

Have I forgotten anything?

defaultdotxbe · 6th February 2012, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by Learjet

Ghosts are very versatile these days. Just by watching TV I have learned that...

Spirits appear in photos as orbs that look exactly like dust.

They create cold spots, except when on thermal cameras when they appear as hot spots.

They manipulate and create electromagnetic fields and all variations thereof, even near powerlines.

They transmit voice on the FM and AM radio band when used with Frank's box. As such they are wanted by the FCC, ACMA and Ofcom for radio piracy.

They knock on command and create footsteps, especially in buildings adjusting to thermal changes.

They turn flashlights on and off, but only when the flashlight is in thermal oscillation.

They appear as shadows in the dark which strangely can be seen.

They speak into audio recorders without being heard until playback.

They move balls, knock over objects, and slant pictures hanging on the wall but are unable to levitate anything on command.

They trip people over.

They appear at the end of your bed after you've been asleep.

They whistle.

They posses people on Paranormal State, Ghost Adventures but not on Ghost Hunters where they are all friendly.

All commercial premises that conduct ghost tours and are in need of funding are haunted.

They talk to mediums but never give any real useful information.

Demons are fierce, scary and exceedingly powerful, but as yet have not taken over the world or even a tiny part of it.

Have I forgotten anything?

they make devices designed to randomly play prerecorded words randomly play prerecorded words

Olowkow · 6th February 2012, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by Newbeak

What immediately comes to mind is Sagan's comment:"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." What I was originally looking for was some exotic but factual explanation for a ball rolling on it's own across a room,but one has to consider the possibility of fraud as well.

Welcome to JREF. As a new member*, you probably cannot realize what a breath of fresh air such a statement is to some of us who have seen time and time again the believer digging his/her heels in wanting to embrace the paranormal at the expense of common sense.

ETA: *Sorry, just noticed you joined in 2005, with few posts.

autumn1971 · 8th February 2012, 06:22 PM

I can think of a plausible explanation that doesn't involve deliberate fraud, but I still think fraud is much more probable.
My explanation: The floor is not perfectly flat, but it is also rough enough that the ball doesn't normally overcome friction and roll. Some outside occurence (minor seism, trucks going by on a nearby highway,) is enough to occasionally cause the ball to roll on the uneven floor.

Verde · 8th February 2012, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe

they make devices designed to randomly play prerecorded words randomly play ~~prerecorded~~ dedrocererp words

There, I think that was what you meant.

V.

4th February 2012, 10:32 AM	#1
Newbeak Scholar Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 90	Waverly Hills Sanatorium Anybody here watch Fact or Faked? The regulars on the show seem for the most part to be level headed about the weird things they often end up debunking.I saw a recent show that looked into the now closed Waverly Hills Sanatorium in Kentucky,and found one item they looked into interesting: A child's ball moves on it's own when left in the former children's playroom.The team investigated the obvious,such as wind coming in the large windows of the playroom,but taped the ball moving on it's own when the windows were shut.I am attaching a link showing the phenomenon: http://www.mediafire.com/?mbhnan27da37aia I suggest VLC media player to open the video. Anybody want to speculate what is going on?
Newbeak Scholar Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 90	__________________ Wannabe skeptic Last edited by Newbeak; 4th February 2012 at 10:33 AM.

4th February 2012, 11:20 AM	#2
sadhatter Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,743	Originally Posted by Newbeak Anybody here watch Fact or Faked? The regulars on the show seem for the most part to be level headed about the weird things they often end up debunking.I saw a recent show that looked into the now closed Waverly Hills Sanatorium in Kentucky,and found one item they looked into interesting: A child's ball moves on it's own when left in the former children's playroom.The team investigated the obvious,such as wind coming in the large windows of the playroom,but taped the ball moving on it's own when the windows were shut.I am attaching a link showing the phenomenon: http://www.mediafire.com/?mbhnan27da37aia I suggest VLC media player to open the video. Anybody want to speculate what is going on? Sure, in trying to get a ratings boost they faked a ball rolling. What about this is convincing at all?
sadhatter Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,743

4th February 2012, 11:51 AM	#3
Newbeak Scholar Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 90	Kind of cynical.. Originally Posted by sadhatter Sure, in trying to get a ratings boost they faked a ball rolling. What about this is convincing at all? Yeah,that crossed my mind,but like I said, they do regularly debunk paranormal claims they feature on the show.
Newbeak Scholar Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 90	__________________ Wannabe skeptic

4th February 2012, 12:32 PM	#4
sadhatter Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,743	Originally Posted by Newbeak Yeah,that crossed my mind,but like I said, they do regularly debunk paranormal claims they feature on the show. ... and? It's called juxtaposition, it is an effective way to engage the audience. Even your most die hard woo is going to lose interest if every episode they find some groundbreaking new piece of the paranormal. But please, answer the question, what about this is convincing in any way to you? To me, someone who has been involved in stage and film since an early age, it is pretty obvious it is just a different take on the ghost hunting schtick, but the evidence itself, is the same old lame, easily faked snake oil we see from all the others.
sadhatter Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,743

4th February 2012, 12:37 PM	#5
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,010	Originally Posted by Newbeak Yeah,that crossed my mind,but like I said, they do regularly debunk paranormal claims they feature on the show. If they debunked everything it would be a pretty boring show. Which do you think is more likely, the ghost of a child is rolling the ball, or the producers of the show found a way to make the ball move?
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,010

4th February 2012, 12:54 PM	#6
LibraryLady ...but not JUST a LibraryLady Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Building a house in the common ground Posts: 13,056	Yes, but it's February
	__________________ What would Hüsker Dü? I am still not a political person, but I am proud that Richard’s and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about. Mildred Loving

4th February 2012, 01:00 PM	#7
defaultdotxbe Drunken Shikigami Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Dark Side of the Sun Posts: 7,482	Originally Posted by LibraryLady Yes, but it's February actually it was november sweeps when the waverly episode aired
	__________________ I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. -Albert Einstein

4th February 2012, 01:04 PM	#8
jhunter1163 Beer-Swilling Semiliterate Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Room 118, Bohemian Grove Marriott Posts: 15,554	Originally Posted by Resume If they debunked everything it would be a pretty boring show. Which do you think is more likely, the ghost of a child is rolling the ball, or the producers of the show found a way to make the ball move? Or someone else. Either way, it's far more likely than any paranormal explanation.

4th February 2012, 01:21 PM	#9
Newbeak Scholar Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 90	Occums Razor Originally Posted by jhunter1163 Or someone else. Either way, it's far more likely than any paranormal explanation. Alright,I suppose you are all correct.Ratings trump the truth in the TV business.
Newbeak Scholar Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 90	__________________ Wannabe skeptic

4th February 2012, 01:30 PM	#10
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,935	Originally Posted by sadhatter ... and? It's called juxtaposition, it is an effective way to engage the audience. Even your most die hard woo is going to lose interest if every episode they find some groundbreaking new piece of the paranormal. But please, answer the question, what about this is convincing in any way to you? To me, someone who has been involved in stage and film since an early age, it is pretty obvious it is just a different take on the ghost hunting schtick, but the evidence itself, is the same old lame, easily faked snake oil we see from all the others. On the other hand, if this stuff was real at all what would be able to be captured on a show in this format that is not able to be faked? And this is in a world where ghosts are real but only show themselves in the dark and in completely inconsistent ways, if they existed as they are seemingly presented. If one is to dismiss that aspect of it, there was no need to even address if it was faked or not.
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,935	Last edited by Halfcentaur; 4th February 2012 at 01:31 PM.

4th February 2012, 01:49 PM	#11
Newbeak Scholar Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 90	Sort of Mythbuster's for the Paranormal Originally Posted by Halfcentaur On the other hand, if this stuff was real at all what would be able to be captured on a show in this format that is not able to be faked? And this is in a world where ghosts are real but only show themselves in the dark and in completely inconsistent ways, if they existed as they are seemingly presented. If one is to dismiss that aspect of it, there was no need to even address if it was faked or not. What immediately comes to mind is Sagan's comment:"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." What I was originally looking for was some exotic but factual explanation for a ball rolling on it's own across a room,but one has to consider the possibility of fraud as well.
Newbeak Scholar Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 90	__________________ Wannabe skeptic

4th February 2012, 04:59 PM	#12
mike3 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,938	Originally Posted by sadhatter ... and? It's called juxtaposition, it is an effective way to engage the audience. Even your most die hard woo is going to lose interest if every episode they find some groundbreaking new piece of the paranormal. But please, answer the question, what about this is convincing in any way to you? To me, someone who has been involved in stage and film since an early age, it is pretty obvious it is just a different take on the ghost hunting schtick, but the evidence itself, is the same old lame, easily faked snake oil we see from all the others. Bingo. The vast majority haven't. So what's "obvious" to you may not be obvious to everyone else.
mike3 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,938	__________________ “Ego is subversive and devolutionary, truly destructive and terrible; ego is the generator of privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. Ego is the fire that burns within the pit of hell, devouring and cosuming everything that enters and leaving utterly nothing behind. Ego is horrible, cruel, and restraining, the darkness of the world, and the doom and bane of man.” – a reaction to that famous Bertrand Russell quote. Last edited by mike3; 4th February 2012 at 05:25 PM.

4th February 2012, 05:12 PM	#13
Pope130 Muse Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 963	Originally Posted by Newbeak Alright,I suppose you are all correct.Ratings trump the truth in the TV business. A BBC photographer once explained the TV business to me this way: "Good film is better than a good picture, a good picture is better than a good story, and a good story is better than the truth." He was riding along with us to Bosnia to get the good film.

5th February 2012, 06:50 PM	#14
Learjet Thinker Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Mackay Australia Posts: 165	We discus fact or faked quite a bit on skeptical view forums, and we tend to give them a thrashing. I think from memory the floor where the ball was on wasn't level and eventually as happens with round objects and uneven surfaces it will move. Every now and then the show makes a good call, but in general it's utter rubbish. Our all time favourite was the caretaker / cutter episode where they didn't recognise an orb spider with it's web, calling it paranormal lol.

6th February 2012, 05:07 AM	#16
sadhatter Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,743	Originally Posted by Halfcentaur On the other hand, if this stuff was real at all what would be able to be captured on a show in this format that is not able to be faked? And this is in a world where ghosts are real but only show themselves in the dark and in completely inconsistent ways, if they existed as they are seemingly presented. If one is to dismiss that aspect of it, there was no need to even address if it was faked or not. The problem is that a real paranormal researcher would not use this format for this very reason. It is prone to every kind of trickery, and as media in general, ratings trump truth and science, de facto making those that would choose this as a method, suspect at worst, very dim witted at best. Both groups that would have little chance of actually finding the paranormal.
sadhatter Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,743

6th February 2012, 05:10 AM	#17
sadhatter Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,743	Originally Posted by Newbeak What immediately comes to mind is Sagan's comment:"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." What I was originally looking for was some exotic but factual explanation for a ball rolling on it's own across a room,but one has to consider the possibility of fraud as well. The problem is in the assumption that the ball did roll on its own across the room. Why try and find the real thing when it is easier and cheaper to fake it? If their interest wasn't in fame, but the paranormal, they wouldn't be on television. Trust me, i know how these shows work, and only via my own morality am i not acting ( and yes acting is the correct term.) in one at this very moment.
sadhatter Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,743

6th February 2012, 05:37 AM	#18
Lamuella Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,480	isn't it funny how the more advanced our recording devices get, the less apparent evidence of "ghosts" becomes? Ghosts seem to have switched entirely from being transparent to fully visible people into being bumping objects and blurry lights. Who knew they were so fashion conscious?
Lamuella Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,480

6th February 2012, 08:13 AM	#19
Learjet Thinker Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Mackay Australia Posts: 165	Ghosts are very versatile these days. Just by watching TV I have learned that... Spirits appear in photos as orbs that look exactly like dust. They create cold spots, except when on thermal cameras when they appear as hot spots. They manipulate and create electromagnetic fields and all variations thereof, even near powerlines. They transmit voice on the FM and AM radio band when used with Frank's box. As such they are wanted by the FCC, ACMA and Ofcom for radio piracy. They knock on command and create footsteps, especially in buildings adjusting to thermal changes. They turn flashlights on and off, but only when the flashlight is in thermal oscillation. They appear as shadows in the dark which strangely can be seen. They speak into audio recorders without being heard until playback. They move balls, knock over objects, and slant pictures hanging on the wall but are unable to levitate anything on command. They trip people over. They appear at the end of your bed after you've been asleep. They whistle. They posses people on Paranormal State, Ghost Adventures but not on Ghost Hunters where they are all friendly. All commercial premises that conduct ghost tours and are in need of funding are haunted. They talk to mediums but never give any real useful information. Demons are fierce, scary and exceedingly powerful, but as yet have not taken over the world or even a tiny part of it. Have I forgotten anything?

6th February 2012, 09:05 AM	#20
defaultdotxbe Drunken Shikigami Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Dark Side of the Sun Posts: 7,482	Originally Posted by Learjet Ghosts are very versatile these days. Just by watching TV I have learned that... Spirits appear in photos as orbs that look exactly like dust. They create cold spots, except when on thermal cameras when they appear as hot spots. They manipulate and create electromagnetic fields and all variations thereof, even near powerlines. They transmit voice on the FM and AM radio band when used with Frank's box. As such they are wanted by the FCC, ACMA and Ofcom for radio piracy. They knock on command and create footsteps, especially in buildings adjusting to thermal changes. They turn flashlights on and off, but only when the flashlight is in thermal oscillation. They appear as shadows in the dark which strangely can be seen. They speak into audio recorders without being heard until playback. They move balls, knock over objects, and slant pictures hanging on the wall but are unable to levitate anything on command. They trip people over. They appear at the end of your bed after you've been asleep. They whistle. They posses people on Paranormal State, Ghost Adventures but not on Ghost Hunters where they are all friendly. All commercial premises that conduct ghost tours and are in need of funding are haunted. They talk to mediums but never give any real useful information. Demons are fierce, scary and exceedingly powerful, but as yet have not taken over the world or even a tiny part of it. Have I forgotten anything? they make devices designed to randomly play prerecorded words randomly play prerecorded words
	__________________ I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. -Albert Einstein

6th February 2012, 12:19 PM	#21
Olowkow Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,789	Originally Posted by Newbeak What immediately comes to mind is Sagan's comment:"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." What I was originally looking for was some exotic but factual explanation for a ball rolling on it's own across a room,but one has to consider the possibility of fraud as well. Welcome to JREF. As a new member, you probably cannot realize what a breath of fresh air such a statement is to some of us who have seen time and time again the believer digging his/her heels in wanting to embrace the paranormal at the expense of common sense. ETA: Sorry, just noticed you joined in 2005, with few posts.
Olowkow Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,789	__________________ Our remedies oft in ourselves do lie, which we ascribe to heaven. --Shakespeare Last edited by Olowkow; 6th February 2012 at 12:22 PM.

8th February 2012, 06:22 PM	#22
autumn1971 Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,451	I can think of a plausible explanation that doesn't involve deliberate fraud, but I still think fraud is much more probable. My explanation: The floor is not perfectly flat, but it is also rough enough that the ball doesn't normally overcome friction and roll. Some outside occurence (minor seism, trucks going by on a nearby highway,) is enough to occasionally cause the ball to roll on the uneven floor.
	__________________ 'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."' -The Bard

8th February 2012, 09:01 PM	#23
Verde Muse Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Where the jackalopes roam. Posts: 817	Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe they make devices designed to randomly play prerecorded words randomly play ~~prerecorded~~ dedrocererp words There, I think that was what you meant. V.
	__________________ It makes sense, if you don't think about it. - T-Mobile ad You're innocent when you dream. - Tom Waits Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool. - Samuel Clemens