JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends

Walter Ego · 27th October 2011, 08:23 AM

Quote:

When the Internet was in its infancy, a friend of mine introduced me to Internet newsgroups. I was thrilled at the idea of being able to instantly communicate with other serious researchers like myself from around the globe. He logged on to alt.conspiracy.jfk and turned the keyboard and mouse over to me. I eagerly began browsing the topics and reading a few entries. "Oh my gawd!" I exclaimed, absolutely horrified. "These people are nuttier than a fruit cake!" My friend laughed his fool head off.

To say that things have only gotten worse would be an understatement. My early vision of an Internet utopia where serious research and discussion of the Kennedy assassination would lead to truth and clarity floundered on the rocks of reality on day one. It never occurred to me that the Internet might allow lonely, irrational, and psychotic people to clutter up the chat rooms and discussion boards. And God knows, the Kennedy assassination is one big magnet.

The worse part about the Internet and the Kennedy assassination is that the technology has allowed old myths to rise from the ashes and proliferate. Spin down the subject headings of any newsgroup: The Figure in the Doorway, Two Rifles on the Sixth Floor, The Sidewalk Scar, Tommy Tilson's Car Chase, James Files and the Dented Cartridge Case, and on and on. These subjects were not just debunked decades ago - they were destroyed beyond recognition and don't belong in any serious discussion, except perhaps as part of a brief and whimsical look back on what passed for "important" issues. Yet, there they are - hot, time-wasting topics for a new generation of young, naive minds. Sadly, this cycle of endless myth-making, destruction, and resurrection will never go away. It is the heart of the Internet.

Posted by Dale K. Myers

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2007/06/it-never-ends.html

Nothing has changed much on alt.conspiracy.jfk since Myers wrote this back in 2007. Check out this thread to see how the conspiracy loons handle even mild criticism.

Hans · 27th October 2011, 08:44 AM

Yes the same affect and reaction was noted for archaeology and pseudo-archaeology. The internet allowed the crackpots to organize!

Tomtomkent · 27th October 2011, 01:00 PM

Last time I dabbled Mac Wallace was meant to have shot JFK for LBJ. With or with out the CIA merging the lives of Lee and Harvey Oswalds.

It got even more insane than that?

Walter Ego · 27th October 2011, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by Tomtomkent

Last time I dabbled Mac Wallace was meant to have shot JFK for LBJ. With or with out the CIA merging the lives of Lee and Harvey Oswalds.

It got even more insane than that?

Mac Wallace was just one of many alternative assassins, including Woody Harrelson's father (who along with E. Howard Hunt was one of the three tramps). And let's not forget Ricky Don White who announced in 1990 that My Daddy Killed JFK, something that Woody would not even fess up to.

Eddie Dane · 28th October 2011, 02:35 AM

Has the JFK crowd already taken the inevitable turn that all CT's take: the conclusion that the Jews were behind it?

timhau · 28th October 2011, 02:55 AM

Originally Posted by Hans

The internet allowed the crackpots to organize!

"Organize" is probably too strong a word, and it has connotations that certainly do not apply. "Reach a critical mass of stupid" is more like it.

Nick Terry · 28th October 2011, 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by Eddie Dane

Has the JFK crowd already taken the inevitable turn that all CT's take: the conclusion that the Jews were behind it?

In general no, but there are several antisemitic conspiracy theorists like Michael Collins Piper and Gregory Douglas who have tried to ride the interest in JFK and produced antisemitically-inflected JFK CTs.

Walter Ego · 28th October 2011, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by Eddie Dane

Has the JFK crowd already taken the inevitable turn that all CT's take: the conclusion that the Jews were behind it?

No, actually. The favorite suspects have been the same for the last 40 plus years. CIA, mob, Castro, military industrial complex, LBJ, etc.

The JFK conspiracy kooktards are as detestable as their 9/11 truther counterparts (who, in delicious irony, they label as kooks) in their arrogance but anti-semitism is one charge you can't use against them.

angrysoba · 28th October 2011, 05:55 AM

Originally Posted by Eddie Dane

Has the JFK crowd already taken the inevitable turn that all CT's take: the conclusion that the Jews were behind it?

Yes, they have. One obsessive "anti-Zionist" I know on the internet has decided that it came down to JFK trying to stop Israel getting nuclear weapons. So the Israelis had JFK whacked and then LBJ winked at their nuclear weapons programme. This "theorist" even concocted his own versions of JFK speeches such as the "secret society" speech by replacing the actual words with things like "Israel" and "Mossad" etc...

Apparently James Jesus Angleton was also involved somehow.

timhau · 28th October 2011, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Apparently James Jesus Angleton was also involved somehow.

People seem to believe just about anything about guys whose name is Jesus.

PhantomWolf · 28th October 2011, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by timhau

People seem to believe just about anything about guys whose name is Jesus.

Just imagine if his name had been James Yeshua Angleton

Hans · 28th October 2011, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by timhau

"Organize" is probably too strong a word, and it has connotations that certainly do not apply. "Reach a critical mass of stupid" is more like it.

I bow to a superior statement

Robert Prey · 29th October 2011, 04:43 AM

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

No, actually. The favorite suspects have been the same for the last 40 plus years. CIA, mob, Castro, military industrial complex, LBJ, etc.

The JFK conspiracy kooktards are as detestable as their 9/11 truther counterparts (who, in delicious irony, they label as kooks) in their arrogance but anti-semitism is one charge you can't use against them.

"Kooktards, Truther counterparts, anti-Zionists, Conspiracy Nuts, etc., etc., etc. And here I thought this forum was for critical thinkers.

Here's a question I submit no one dare answer: What is the one single strongest piece of evidence proving a lone assassin? On previous JFK boards, no one dare answer betraying (A. a lack of scholarship on the subject, or (B. a retreat into the fog of a thousand pieces of evidenciary minutia, not one piece of which holds up under scrutiny..

Foolmewunz · 29th October 2011, 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

"Kooktards, Truther counterparts, anti-Zionists, Conspiracy Nuts, etc., etc., etc. And here I thought this forum was for critical thinkers.

Here's a question I submit no one dare answer: What is the one single strongest piece of evidence proving a lone assassin? On previous JFK boards, no one dare answer betraying (A. a lack of scholarship on the subject, or (B. a retreat into the fog of a thousand pieces of evidenciary minutia, not one piece of which holds up under scrutiny..

That's a loaded question - and you know it. There's no single piece of "strongest evidence". Put everything together, though - for the conspiracy believers or for the adherents of the single assassin, and the gestalt of anyone viewing the evidence without bias would fall to the side of the lone gunman.

Although I'm always still a bit suspicious as to why the Warren Commission didn't uncover anything on the former club connections between Ruby and Oswald.

Tomtomkent · 29th October 2011, 05:34 AM

I also like the way that Conspiracy Folks need to justify Lee Harvey Oswald being both pro and anti cuban with something other "The kind of guy who joins those kinds of groups for attention".

angrysoba · 29th October 2011, 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

"Kooktards, Truther counterparts, anti-Zionists, Conspiracy Nuts, etc., etc., etc. And here I thought this forum was for critical thinkers.

Here's a question I submit no one dare answer: What is the one single strongest piece of evidence proving a lone assassin? On previous JFK boards, no one dare answer betraying (A. a lack of scholarship on the subject, or (B. a retreat into the fog of a thousand pieces of evidenciary minutia, not one piece of which holds up under scrutiny..

The backyard photographs.

Admittedly you cannot deduce from that that he was the lone assassin but in the absence of evidence that there were other assassins that seems to be the best thing going.

Foolmewunz · 29th October 2011, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

The backyard photographs.

Admittedly you cannot deduce from that that he was the lone assassin but in the absence of evidence that there were other assassins that seems to be the best thing going.

Uh oh! Counting down to Jack White in 3.... 2....

Tomtomkent · 29th October 2011, 06:32 AM

We only have evidence for Oswald. Any more, or different shooters are possible, but are not plausible with out evidence to support them. There is evidence that suggests the possibility, but little more in real terms.

Walter Ego · 29th October 2011, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Uh oh! Counting down to Jack White in 3.... 2....

You mean this Jack White?

Quote:

Jack White, statement on the assassination of John F. Kennedy (31st March, 2004)

(1) President Kennedy was murdered by a cabal headed by Lyndon Johnson, Allen Dulles, J. Edgar Hoover and Richard Nixon. The CIA and Pentagon carried out the hit... with help from Cubans and mobsters.

(2) Lee Oswald and Harvey Oswald were agents of the CIA and did not kill JFK. Both were controlled by the CIA.

(3) Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King were killed by the same cabal. Similar fate befell several others who threatened the cabal, such as George Wallace, Larry Flynt, John Lennon and Marilyn Monroe. Teddy Kennedy and Richard Nixon also were "eliminated" by the cabal. An attempt on the life of President Reagan tried to install G.H.W. Bush as president, but it failed, and Bush One had to wait his turn. Gerald Ford was installed as president because he was a willing stooge of the cabal.

(4) It is scientifically provable that the Zapruder film of the JFK assassination is a fabrication by the government.

Teddy Kennedy and Richard Nixon? The conspirators sure took their sweet time "eliminating" them. I guess that's why "eliminated" is in scare quotes. And Robert Prey is upset that I called people like this "kooktards"?

Foolmewunz · 29th October 2011, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

You mean this Jack White?

Yep, pretty sure that's the same Jack White. The self-described "photo expert". He's also got some charming work on the Pentagon,and Apollo Hoax, I believe. Funny how that puff piece in your link doesn't describe his embarassing testimony in front of the Warren Commission - on the topic of the backyard photos, which is why I alluded to him.

(He's often cited as the grand poobah of photographic evidence and is a complete charlatan in that area, but conspiradroids love him.)

Walter Ego · 29th October 2011, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Yep, pretty sure that's the same Jack White. The self-described "photo expert". He's also got some charming work on the Pentagon,and Apollo Hoax, I believe. Funny how that puff piece in your link doesn't describe his embarassing testimony in front of the Warren Commission - on the topic of the backyard photos, which is why I alluded to him.

(He's often cited as the grand poobah of photographic evidence and is a complete charlatan in that area, but conspiradroids love him.)

White is mentioned on this page along with some of other bogus JFK photographic "experts." My favorite "expert" is Robert Groden who was riding high in the 1970s doing campus tours with Dick Gregory screening his bootleg copy of the Zapruder film.

Groden was blown out of the water during the O.J. Simpson trial where he testified that a photo of Simpson wearing Bruno Magli shoes was faked. The prosecutors produced thirty other photos by different photographers showing Simpson wearing the same shoes and totally exposed Groden's compete lack of qualifications and experience as any kind of "expert."

Groden currently makes his living peddling JFK conspiracy literature in Dealey Plaza. How the mighty have fallen!

Kaosium · 29th October 2011, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

You mean this Jack White?

Teddy Kennedy and Richard Nixon? The conspirators sure took their sweet time "eliminating" them. I guess that's why "eliminated" is in scare quotes. And Robert Prey is upset that I called people like this "kooktards"?

The idea must be that Teddy Kennedy was 'removed' as a viable presidential candidate as a result of Chappaquiddick and Nixon forced from office due to Watergate, thus 'eliminated' from power.

I guess they must think someone ran Teddy off the road or exposed it when it could have stayed hidden?

At this point this 'cabal' must control about everything, I think there's one conspiracy we can prove. Humans did it! The human race is conspiring against itself! Why has no one else discovered this? They're everywhere I tell you!

Robert Prey · 29th October 2011, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

That's a loaded question - and you know it. There's no single piece of "strongest evidence". Put everything together, though - for the conspiracy believers or for the adherents of the single assassin, and the gestalt of anyone viewing the evidence without bias would fall to the side of the lone gunman.

Although I'm always still a bit suspicious as to why the Warren Commission didn't uncover anything on the former club connections between Ruby and Oswald.
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...bebe0cccf1.jpg

There is nothing loaded about it at all. If you had a single piece of your BEST evidence, you would cite it. Thus, just like all the rest, you've failed the challenge.

Robert Prey · 29th October 2011, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

The backyard photographs.

Admittedly you cannot deduce from that that he was the lone assassin but in the absence of evidence that there were other assassins that seems to be the best thing going.

No, you certainly cannot deduce from those backyard photos that LHO was the lone assassin, but upon close examination, you can deduce a carefully planned frame-up to influence the Court of Public Opinion. There is strong evidence of forgery in these photos. And although Marina originally testified that she took the photos, she subsequently changed her mind. And have you seen the backyard photo of Oswald's ghost? Very incriminating of a forgery and frame-up by the government.

Chaos · 29th October 2011, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

There is nothing loaded about it at all. If you had a single piece of your BEST evidence, you would cite it. Thus, just like all the rest, you've failed the challenge.

How about the absence of evidence for more than one assassin? Evidence shows one man was involved, no evidence shows that anyone else was involved, therefore the evidence shows that most likely he was the only one.

Walter Ego · 29th October 2011, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

There is nothing loaded about it at all. If you had a single piece of your BEST evidence, you would cite it. Thus, just like all the rest, you've failed the challenge.

So what's your single piece of BEST evidence that there was a conspiracy to kill JFK? Evidence, mind you, material or circumstantial, not suspicions or coincidences or "unanswered questions."

Robert Prey · 29th October 2011, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by Chaos

How about the absence of evidence for more than one assassin? Evidence shows one man was involved, no evidence shows that anyone else was involved, therefore the evidence shows that most likely he was the only one.

First of all, the absence of evidence is not evidence. Nonetheless, there is a mountain of evidence that points to a conspiracy. But hundreds of books have been written on the subject and this is only a small space. I'll get to it later, only citing two pieces of evidence, for the sake of brevity.

Robert Prey · 29th October 2011, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

So what's your single piece of BEST evidence that there was a conspiracy to kill JFK? Evidence, mind you, material or circumstantial, not suspicions or coincidences or "unanswered questions."

I'll get to that, but I'd first like to prove that no one on this board can successfully answer my challenge. So far, three replies, but no cigar.

Foolmewunz · 29th October 2011, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

There is nothing loaded about it at all. If you had a single piece of your BEST evidence, you would cite it. Thus, just like all the rest, you've failed the challenge.

No one's failed your challenge because the challenge is bogus. As you'll note, I already told you I wasn't slipping into your rhetorical trap.

That's some great way to judge a case. I wonder why it hasn't caught on in the courts, yet? "Okay, the District Attorney will be allowed to present one piece of evidence - they get to choose their best single piece - but no others."

Foolmewunz · 29th October 2011, 08:13 AM

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

I'll get to that, but I'd first like to prove that no one on this board can successfully answer my challenge. So far, three replies, but no cigar.

Because the challenge is bogus. You're making up a rule that everyone has to adhere to and it has no place in scientific enquiry, evidenciary hearings, jurisprudence or critical thinking.

My best single piece of evidence: The Warren Commission Report - all of it.

And I think Bill Clinton might have a suggestion as to what you can do with that cigar, Robert.

matt.tansy · 29th October 2011, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

Here's a question I submit no one dare answer: What is the one single strongest piece of evidence proving a lone assassin?

Oswald's rifle was stored in the Paine's garage before the assassination then was found in the TSBD.

angrysoba · 29th October 2011, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

And although Marina originally testified that she took the photos, she subsequently changed her mind. And have you seen the backyard photo of Oswald's ghost? Very incriminating of a forgery and frame-up by the government.

Apparently Marina still stands by her story that she took the photos.

Never seen Oswald's ghost, no. What does Oswald's ghost say?

Walter Ego · 29th October 2011, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

I'll get to that, but I'd first like to prove that no one on this board can successfully answer my challenge. So far, three replies, but no cigar.

You are playing games here and I don't play games with conspiritoids. Your challenge is bogus. There is never one piece of evidence that convicts a defendant in a criminal case. There is abundant evidence the Oswald killed Kennedy.

I have other things to do today. I'll check back tonight to see if you can come of with ONE piece of evidence for a conspiracy.

Chaos · 29th October 2011, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

First of all, the absence of evidence is not evidence. Nonetheless, there is a mountain of evidence that points to a conspiracy.

The kind of mountain that is invisible to all but the true believer?

Quote:

But hundreds of books have been written on the subject and this is only a small space. I'll get to it later, only citing two pieces of evidence, for the sake of brevity.

By all means, do it. We´re waiting.

matt.tansy · 29th October 2011, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

There is strong evidence of forgery in these photos.

You would be referring to Jack White's "analysis", of course. Jack White, the man who has repeatedly demonstrated he cannot visualize the world in three dimensions and was responsible for this unbelievable example of intellectual dishonesty: http://www.clavius.org/earthmt.html

timhau · 29th October 2011, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

Nonetheless, there is a mountain of evidence that points to a conspiracy.

And you can't even be bothered to show the mountaintop?

I Ratant · 29th October 2011, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Yep, pretty sure that's the same Jack White. The self-described "photo expert". He's also got some charming work on the Pentagon,and Apollo Hoax, I believe. Funny how that puff piece in your link doesn't describe his embarassing testimony in front of the Warren Commission - on the topic of the backyard photos, which is why I alluded to him.

(He's often cited as the grand poobah of photographic evidence and is a complete charlatan in that area, but conspiradroids love him.)

.
He is sincere.....ly deluded.

I've talked with him on the Compuserve Conspiracy forum, and he doesn't come across as a charlatan, just deluded... invincibly so.

I Ratant · 29th October 2011, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Because the challenge is bogus. You're making up a rule that everyone has to adhere to and it has no place in scientific enquiry, evidenciary hearings, jurisprudence or critical thinking.

My best single piece of evidence: The Warren Commission Report - all of it.

And I think Bill Clinton might have a suggestion as to what you can do with that cigar, Robert.

.
The Warren Commission Report - ALL of it !

And Posner's examination of the event.
The hundreds of fairy tales spewed out of the conspiracy sewer are just garbage. That which isn't bat-crap crazy... Weisberg, Livingstone... is only intended to make your money the CTwinky's money. Groden, Lane, Lifton..
Trask's "Pictures of the Pain" is a good source also.

I Ratant · 29th October 2011, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by timhau

And you can't even be bothered to show the mountaintop?

.
It's in the conspiracy sewer, which is deeper than the mountain is high.

I Ratant · 29th October 2011, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

White is mentioned on this page along with some of other bogus JFK photographic "experts." My favorite "expert" is Robert Groden who was riding high in the 1970s doing campus tours with Dick Gregory screening his bootleg copy of the Zapruder film.

Groden was blown out of the water during the O.J. Simpson trial where he testified that a photo of Simpson wearing Bruno Magli shoes was faked. The prosecutors produced thirty other photos by different photographers showing Simpson wearing the same shoes and totally exposed Groden's compete lack of qualifications and experience as any kind of "expert."

Groden currently makes his living peddling JFK conspiracy literature in Dealey Plaza. How the mighty have fallen!

.
We were amused at Groden's "examination" of the negatives of OJ in the 'ugly ass shoes', pointing out all the places where the -color negative- had been retouched!!!!!!!
Lifton told us that Groden protested Lifton's presence in the court room, and had him removed...
I guess one liar at a time is enough for anything.

27th October 2011, 08:23 AM	#1
Walter Ego Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,557	JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends Quote: When the Internet was in its infancy, a friend of mine introduced me to Internet newsgroups. I was thrilled at the idea of being able to instantly communicate with other serious researchers like myself from around the globe. He logged on to alt.conspiracy.jfk and turned the keyboard and mouse over to me. I eagerly began browsing the topics and reading a few entries. "Oh my gawd!" I exclaimed, absolutely horrified. "These people are nuttier than a fruit cake!" My friend laughed his fool head off. To say that things have only gotten worse would be an understatement. My early vision of an Internet utopia where serious research and discussion of the Kennedy assassination would lead to truth and clarity floundered on the rocks of reality on day one. It never occurred to me that the Internet might allow lonely, irrational, and psychotic people to clutter up the chat rooms and discussion boards. And God knows, the Kennedy assassination is one big magnet. The worse part about the Internet and the Kennedy assassination is that the technology has allowed old myths to rise from the ashes and proliferate. Spin down the subject headings of any newsgroup: The Figure in the Doorway, Two Rifles on the Sixth Floor, The Sidewalk Scar, Tommy Tilson's Car Chase, James Files and the Dented Cartridge Case, and on and on. These subjects were not just debunked decades ago - they were destroyed beyond recognition and don't belong in any serious discussion, except perhaps as part of a brief and whimsical look back on what passed for "important" issues. Yet, there they are - hot, time-wasting topics for a new generation of young, naive minds. Sadly, this cycle of endless myth-making, destruction, and resurrection will never go away. It is the heart of the Internet. Posted by Dale K. Myers http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2007/06/it-never-ends.html Nothing has changed much on alt.conspiracy.jfk since Myers wrote this back in 2007. Check out this thread to see how the conspiracy loons handle even mild criticism.

27th October 2011, 01:00 PM	#3
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Kent, United Kingdom Posts: 5,219	Last time I dabbled Mac Wallace was meant to have shot JFK for LBJ. With or with out the CIA merging the lives of Lee and Harvey Oswalds. It got even more insane than that?
	__________________ @tomhodden No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

27th October 2011, 06:04 PM	#4
Walter Ego Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,557	Originally Posted by Tomtomkent Last time I dabbled Mac Wallace was meant to have shot JFK for LBJ. With or with out the CIA merging the lives of Lee and Harvey Oswalds. It got even more insane than that? Mac Wallace was just one of many alternative assassins, including Woody Harrelson's father (who along with E. Howard Hunt was one of the three tramps). And let's not forget Ricky Don White who announced in 1990 that My Daddy Killed JFK, something that Woody would not even fess up to.
	Last edited by Walter Ego; 27th October 2011 at 06:12 PM.

28th October 2011, 02:55 AM	#6
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: East of Sweeden Posts: 9,681	Originally Posted by Hans The internet allowed the crackpots to organize! "Organize" is probably too strong a word, and it has connotations that certainly do not apply. "Reach a critical mass of stupid" is more like it.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

28th October 2011, 05:55 AM	#9
angrysoba Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 8,563	Originally Posted by Eddie Dane Has the JFK crowd already taken the inevitable turn that all CT's take: the conclusion that the Jews were behind it? Yes, they have. One obsessive "anti-Zionist" I know on the internet has decided that it came down to JFK trying to stop Israel getting nuclear weapons. So the Israelis had JFK whacked and then LBJ winked at their nuclear weapons programme. This "theorist" even concocted his own versions of JFK speeches such as the "secret society" speech by replacing the actual words with things like "Israel" and "Mossad" etc... Apparently James Jesus Angleton was also involved somehow.
	Last edited by angrysoba; 28th October 2011 at 05:57 AM.

27th October 2011, 08:44 AM	#2
Hans Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: NW United States Posts: 2,786	Yes the same affect and reaction was noted for archaeology and pseudo-archaeology. The internet allowed the crackpots to organize!

28th October 2011, 02:35 AM	#5
Eddie Dane Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,424	Has the JFK crowd already taken the inevitable turn that all CT's take: the conclusion that the Jews were behind it?

28th October 2011, 05:49 AM	#7
Nick Terry Master Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 2,305	Originally Posted by Eddie Dane Has the JFK crowd already taken the inevitable turn that all CT's take: the conclusion that the Jews were behind it? In general no, but there are several antisemitic conspiracy theorists like Michael Collins Piper and Gregory Douglas who have tried to ride the interest in JFK and produced antisemitically-inflected JFK CTs.

28th October 2011, 05:50 AM	#8
Walter Ego Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,557	Originally Posted by Eddie Dane Has the JFK crowd already taken the inevitable turn that all CT's take: the conclusion that the Jews were behind it? No, actually. The favorite suspects have been the same for the last 40 plus years. CIA, mob, Castro, military industrial complex, LBJ, etc. The JFK conspiracy kooktards are as detestable as their 9/11 truther counterparts (who, in delicious irony, they label as kooks) in their arrogance but anti-semitism is one charge you can't use against them.

28th October 2011, 06:24 AM	#10
timhau NWO Litter Technician Join Date: May 2004 Location: East of Sweeden Posts: 9,681	Originally Posted by angrysoba Apparently James Jesus Angleton was also involved somehow. People seem to believe just about anything about guys whose name is Jesus.
	__________________ When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips

28th October 2011, 04:55 PM	#11
PhantomWolf Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lost Deimos Moon Base Posts: 9,952	Originally Posted by timhau People seem to believe just about anything about guys whose name is Jesus. Just imagine if his name had been James Yeshua Angleton
	__________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) My Apollo Page. 1 on 1 Debating Forum for Skeptics and sceptics.

28th October 2011, 06:17 PM	#12
Hans Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: NW United States Posts: 2,786	Originally Posted by timhau "Organize" is probably too strong a word, and it has connotations that certainly do not apply. "Reach a critical mass of stupid" is more like it. I bow to a superior statement

29th October 2011, 04:43 AM	#13
Robert Prey Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6,505	Any Critical Thinkers Here? I doubt it. Originally Posted by Walter Ego No, actually. The favorite suspects have been the same for the last 40 plus years. CIA, mob, Castro, military industrial complex, LBJ, etc. The JFK conspiracy kooktards are as detestable as their 9/11 truther counterparts (who, in delicious irony, they label as kooks) in their arrogance but anti-semitism is one charge you can't use against them. "Kooktards, Truther counterparts, anti-Zionists, Conspiracy Nuts, etc., etc., etc. And here I thought this forum was for critical thinkers. Here's a question I submit no one dare answer: What is the one single strongest piece of evidence proving a lone assassin? On previous JFK boards, no one dare answer betraying (A. a lack of scholarship on the subject, or (B. a retreat into the fog of a thousand pieces of evidenciary minutia, not one piece of which holds up under scrutiny..
Robert Prey Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6,505

29th October 2011, 05:07 AM	#14
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 20,520	Originally Posted by Robert Prey "Kooktards, Truther counterparts, anti-Zionists, Conspiracy Nuts, etc., etc., etc. And here I thought this forum was for critical thinkers. Here's a question I submit no one dare answer: What is the one single strongest piece of evidence proving a lone assassin? On previous JFK boards, no one dare answer betraying (A. a lack of scholarship on the subject, or (B. a retreat into the fog of a thousand pieces of evidenciary minutia, not one piece of which holds up under scrutiny.. That's a loaded question - and you know it. There's no single piece of "strongest evidence". Put everything together, though - for the conspiracy believers or for the adherents of the single assassin, and the gestalt of anyone viewing the evidence without bias would fall to the side of the lone gunman. Although I'm always still a bit suspicious as to why the Warren Commission didn't uncover anything on the former club connections between Ruby and Oswald.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele Don't you wish someone had slapped baby Hitler really really hard? [i] Dr. Buzzo 02/13 [i]

29th October 2011, 05:34 AM	#15
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Kent, United Kingdom Posts: 5,219	I also like the way that Conspiracy Folks need to justify Lee Harvey Oswald being both pro and anti cuban with something other "The kind of guy who joins those kinds of groups for attention".
	__________________ @tomhodden No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

29th October 2011, 05:53 AM	#16
angrysoba Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 8,563	Originally Posted by Robert Prey "Kooktards, Truther counterparts, anti-Zionists, Conspiracy Nuts, etc., etc., etc. And here I thought this forum was for critical thinkers. Here's a question I submit no one dare answer: What is the one single strongest piece of evidence proving a lone assassin? On previous JFK boards, no one dare answer betraying (A. a lack of scholarship on the subject, or (B. a retreat into the fog of a thousand pieces of evidenciary minutia, not one piece of which holds up under scrutiny.. The backyard photographs. Admittedly you cannot deduce from that that he was the lone assassin but in the absence of evidence that there were other assassins that seems to be the best thing going.

29th October 2011, 06:14 AM	#17
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 20,520	Originally Posted by angrysoba The backyard photographs. Admittedly you cannot deduce from that that he was the lone assassin but in the absence of evidence that there were other assassins that seems to be the best thing going. Uh oh! Counting down to Jack White in 3.... 2....
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele Don't you wish someone had slapped baby Hitler really really hard? [i] Dr. Buzzo 02/13 [i]

29th October 2011, 06:32 AM	#18
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Kent, United Kingdom Posts: 5,219	We only have evidence for Oswald. Any more, or different shooters are possible, but are not plausible with out evidence to support them. There is evidence that suggests the possibility, but little more in real terms.
	__________________ @tomhodden No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

29th October 2011, 06:32 AM	#19
Walter Ego Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,557	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz Uh oh! Counting down to Jack White in 3.... 2.... You mean this Jack White? Quote: Jack White, statement on the assassination of John F. Kennedy (31st March, 2004) (1) President Kennedy was murdered by a cabal headed by Lyndon Johnson, Allen Dulles, J. Edgar Hoover and Richard Nixon. The CIA and Pentagon carried out the hit... with help from Cubans and mobsters. (2) Lee Oswald and Harvey Oswald were agents of the CIA and did not kill JFK. Both were controlled by the CIA. (3) Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King were killed by the same cabal. Similar fate befell several others who threatened the cabal, such as George Wallace, Larry Flynt, John Lennon and Marilyn Monroe. Teddy Kennedy and Richard Nixon also were "eliminated" by the cabal. An attempt on the life of President Reagan tried to install G.H.W. Bush as president, but it failed, and Bush One had to wait his turn. Gerald Ford was installed as president because he was a willing stooge of the cabal. (4) It is scientifically provable that the Zapruder film of the JFK assassination is a fabrication by the government. Teddy Kennedy and Richard Nixon? The conspirators sure took their sweet time "eliminating" them. I guess that's why "eliminated" is in scare quotes. And Robert Prey is upset that I called people like this "kooktards"?
	Last edited by Walter Ego; 29th October 2011 at 06:52 AM.

29th October 2011, 06:46 AM	#20
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 20,520	Originally Posted by Walter Ego You mean this Jack White? Yep, pretty sure that's the same Jack White. The self-described "photo expert". He's also got some charming work on the Pentagon,and Apollo Hoax, I believe. Funny how that puff piece in your link doesn't describe his embarassing testimony in front of the Warren Commission - on the topic of the backyard photos, which is why I alluded to him. (He's often cited as the grand poobah of photographic evidence and is a complete charlatan in that area, but conspiradroids love him.)
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele Don't you wish someone had slapped baby Hitler really really hard? [i] Dr. Buzzo 02/13 [i]

29th October 2011, 07:18 AM	#21
Walter Ego Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,557	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz Yep, pretty sure that's the same Jack White. The self-described "photo expert". He's also got some charming work on the Pentagon,and Apollo Hoax, I believe. Funny how that puff piece in your link doesn't describe his embarassing testimony in front of the Warren Commission - on the topic of the backyard photos, which is why I alluded to him. (He's often cited as the grand poobah of photographic evidence and is a complete charlatan in that area, but conspiradroids love him.) White is mentioned on this page along with some of other bogus JFK photographic "experts." My favorite "expert" is Robert Groden who was riding high in the 1970s doing campus tours with Dick Gregory screening his bootleg copy of the Zapruder film. Groden was blown out of the water during the O.J. Simpson trial where he testified that a photo of Simpson wearing Bruno Magli shoes was faked. The prosecutors produced thirty other photos by different photographers showing Simpson wearing the same shoes and totally exposed Groden's compete lack of qualifications and experience as any kind of "expert." Groden currently makes his living peddling JFK conspiracy literature in Dealey Plaza. How the mighty have fallen!
	Last edited by Walter Ego; 29th October 2011 at 07:19 AM.

29th October 2011, 07:24 AM	#22
Kaosium Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 4,322	Originally Posted by Walter Ego You mean this Jack White? Teddy Kennedy and Richard Nixon? The conspirators sure took their sweet time "eliminating" them. I guess that's why "eliminated" is in scare quotes. And Robert Prey is upset that I called people like this "kooktards"? The idea must be that Teddy Kennedy was 'removed' as a viable presidential candidate as a result of Chappaquiddick and Nixon forced from office due to Watergate, thus 'eliminated' from power. I guess they must think someone ran Teddy off the road or exposed it when it could have stayed hidden? At this point this 'cabal' must control about everything, I think there's one conspiracy we can prove. Humans did it! The human race is conspiring against itself! Why has no one else discovered this? They're everywhere I tell you!
Kaosium Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 4,322	__________________ "Honi soit qui mal y pense."

29th October 2011, 07:32 AM	#23
Robert Prey Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6,505	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz That's a loaded question - and you know it. There's no single piece of "strongest evidence". Put everything together, though - for the conspiracy believers or for the adherents of the single assassin, and the gestalt of anyone viewing the evidence without bias would fall to the side of the lone gunman. Although I'm always still a bit suspicious as to why the Warren Commission didn't uncover anything on the former club connections between Ruby and Oswald. http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...bebe0cccf1.jpg There is nothing loaded about it at all. If you had a single piece of your BEST evidence, you would cite it. Thus, just like all the rest, you've failed the challenge.
Robert Prey Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6,505

29th October 2011, 07:42 AM	#24
Robert Prey Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6,505	Oswald's Ghost Originally Posted by angrysoba The backyard photographs. Admittedly you cannot deduce from that that he was the lone assassin but in the absence of evidence that there were other assassins that seems to be the best thing going. No, you certainly cannot deduce from those backyard photos that LHO was the lone assassin, but upon close examination, you can deduce a carefully planned frame-up to influence the Court of Public Opinion. There is strong evidence of forgery in these photos. And although Marina originally testified that she took the photos, she subsequently changed her mind. And have you seen the backyard photo of Oswald's ghost? Very incriminating of a forgery and frame-up by the government.
Robert Prey Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6,505

29th October 2011, 07:43 AM	#25
Chaos TAM Chocolate Dispenser Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Heart of Old Europe Posts: 9,778	Originally Posted by Robert Prey There is nothing loaded about it at all. If you had a single piece of your BEST evidence, you would cite it. Thus, just like all the rest, you've failed the challenge. How about the absence of evidence for more than one assassin? Evidence shows one man was involved, no evidence shows that anyone else was involved, therefore the evidence shows that most likely he was the only one.
	__________________ Grand Master, Knights of the Question Mark Illusion: too good to be true - Reality: too true to be good Authors build castles in the sky, readers live in them and publishers collect the rent. - Maxim Gorki Folks enjoy a witch-hunt as long as they are on the blunt end of the pitchfork. - Suezoled You can't use logic to talk a man out of a position that he didn't use logic to get himself into - passed down by Nyarlathotep Kids these days are better than their parents since they constitute the newest edition, the beta version of our societies - Cleopatra YouÂ´ll have to accept the fact that some people are just plain nuts. - Paul C. Anagnostopolous

29th October 2011, 07:44 AM	#26
Walter Ego Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,557	Originally Posted by Robert Prey There is nothing loaded about it at all. If you had a single piece of your BEST evidence, you would cite it. Thus, just like all the rest, you've failed the challenge. So what's your single piece of BEST evidence that there was a conspiracy to kill JFK? Evidence, mind you, material or circumstantial, not suspicions or coincidences or "unanswered questions."

29th October 2011, 07:50 AM	#27
Robert Prey Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6,505	Originally Posted by Chaos How about the absence of evidence for more than one assassin? Evidence shows one man was involved, no evidence shows that anyone else was involved, therefore the evidence shows that most likely he was the only one. First of all, the absence of evidence is not evidence. Nonetheless, there is a mountain of evidence that points to a conspiracy. But hundreds of books have been written on the subject and this is only a small space. I'll get to it later, only citing two pieces of evidence, for the sake of brevity.
Robert Prey Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6,505

29th October 2011, 07:52 AM	#28
Robert Prey Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6,505	Originally Posted by Walter Ego So what's your single piece of BEST evidence that there was a conspiracy to kill JFK? Evidence, mind you, material or circumstantial, not suspicions or coincidences or "unanswered questions." I'll get to that, but I'd first like to prove that no one on this board can successfully answer my challenge. So far, three replies, but no cigar.
Robert Prey Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6,505

29th October 2011, 08:09 AM	#29
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 20,520	Originally Posted by Robert Prey There is nothing loaded about it at all. If you had a single piece of your BEST evidence, you would cite it. Thus, just like all the rest, you've failed the challenge. No one's failed your challenge because the challenge is bogus. As you'll note, I already told you I wasn't slipping into your rhetorical trap. That's some great way to judge a case. I wonder why it hasn't caught on in the courts, yet? "Okay, the District Attorney will be allowed to present one piece of evidence - they get to choose their best single piece - but no others."
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele Don't you wish someone had slapped baby Hitler really really hard? [i] Dr. Buzzo 02/13 [i]

29th October 2011, 08:13 AM	#30
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 20,520	Originally Posted by Robert Prey I'll get to that, but I'd first like to prove that no one on this board can successfully answer my challenge. So far, three replies, but no cigar. Because the challenge is bogus. You're making up a rule that everyone has to adhere to and it has no place in scientific enquiry, evidenciary hearings, jurisprudence or critical thinking. My best single piece of evidence: The Warren Commission Report - all of it. And I think Bill Clinton might have a suggestion as to what you can do with that cigar, Robert.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele Don't you wish someone had slapped baby Hitler really really hard? [i] Dr. Buzzo 02/13 [i]

29th October 2011, 08:14 AM	#31
matt.tansy Muse Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Groton, CT Posts: 802	Originally Posted by Robert Prey Here's a question I submit no one dare answer: What is the one single strongest piece of evidence proving a lone assassin? Oswald's rifle was stored in the Paine's garage before the assassination then was found in the TSBD.
	__________________ Enough with your Apollo is true by virtue of an appeal to reason... - Patrick1000 probably my bad for trying to back engineer the lunacy -jaydeehess

29th October 2011, 08:32 AM	#32
angrysoba Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 8,563	Originally Posted by Robert Prey And although Marina originally testified that she took the photos, she subsequently changed her mind. And have you seen the backyard photo of Oswald's ghost? Very incriminating of a forgery and frame-up by the government. Apparently Marina still stands by her story that she took the photos. Never seen Oswald's ghost, no. What does Oswald's ghost say?

29th October 2011, 08:42 AM	#33
Walter Ego Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,557	Originally Posted by Robert Prey I'll get to that, but I'd first like to prove that no one on this board can successfully answer my challenge. So far, three replies, but no cigar. You are playing games here and I don't play games with conspiritoids. Your challenge is bogus. There is never one piece of evidence that convicts a defendant in a criminal case. There is abundant evidence the Oswald killed Kennedy. I have other things to do today. I'll check back tonight to see if you can come of with ONE piece of evidence for a conspiracy.

29th October 2011, 08:53 AM	#34
Chaos TAM Chocolate Dispenser Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Heart of Old Europe Posts: 9,778	Originally Posted by Robert Prey First of all, the absence of evidence is not evidence. Nonetheless, there is a mountain of evidence that points to a conspiracy. The kind of mountain that is invisible to all but the true believer? Quote: But hundreds of books have been written on the subject and this is only a small space. I'll get to it later, only citing two pieces of evidence, for the sake of brevity. By all means, do it. We´re waiting.
	__________________ Grand Master, Knights of the Question Mark Illusion: too good to be true - Reality: too true to be good Authors build castles in the sky, readers live in them and publishers collect the rent. - Maxim Gorki Folks enjoy a witch-hunt as long as they are on the blunt end of the pitchfork. - Suezoled You can't use logic to talk a man out of a position that he didn't use logic to get himself into - passed down by Nyarlathotep Kids these days are better than their parents since they constitute the newest edition, the beta version of our societies - Cleopatra YouÂ´ll have to accept the fact that some people are just plain nuts. - Paul C. Anagnostopolous

29th October 2011, 09:18 AM	#35
matt.tansy Muse Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Groton, CT Posts: 802	Originally Posted by Robert Prey There is strong evidence of forgery in these photos. You would be referring to Jack White's "analysis", of course. Jack White, the man who has repeatedly demonstrated he cannot visualize the world in three dimensions and was responsible for this unbelievable example of intellectual dishonesty: http://www.clavius.org/earthmt.html
	__________________ Enough with your Apollo is true by virtue of an appeal to reason... - Patrick1000 probably my bad for trying to back engineer the lunacy -jaydeehess