JFK Conspiracy Theories: It Never Ends - Page 49

Tomtomkent · 6th December 2011, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

A seven years after the fact rationalization of an original memo which mandated One Lone Nut or Cover it Up.

Yes, there have been several pieces of evidence claimed to be part of a cover up or whitewash. No evidence has been offered to suggest this is the case, other than it conflicts with the Parkland statements. Which are not supported by material evidence.

Where is the material evidence to support the Parkland documents Robert?

Hubert Cumberdale · 6th December 2011, 09:45 AM

Without going through the whole thread, has Roberto said what times it are yet?

Tomtomkent · 6th December 2011, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Hubert Cumberdale

Without going through the whole thread, has Roberto said what times it are yet?

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...59356cfeff.jpg

No, just that doesn't prove anything and the back yard photos are fake. IIRC.

bynmdsue · 6th December 2011, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Tomtomkent

No, just that doesn't prove anything and the back yard photos are fake. IIRC.

Them shadows is painted on the ground. Woooo!

Hubert Cumberdale · 6th December 2011, 11:04 AM

Yeah, I was going to catalogue every question Roberticanus has dodged answering but then I realised its pretty much all of them and it would take me a month.

Walter Ego · 6th December 2011, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by RoboTimbo

Evidence?

Robert doesn't have any evidence. Robert doesn't need any evidence. What he has is bare assertion like the examples below. If he believes it to be true, it is true and that is sufficient. Evidence is boring. Evidence is for the brainwashed masses and stick in the mud skeptics. He is above all that.

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

The Warren Report is a Whitewash.

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

The Warren Commission was formed to convict a single dead man for the crime and convince the public that no real independent investigation was warranted.

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

And it was Katzenbach's suggestion that no one even consider a wider conspiracy.

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

So the facts do not support a conspiracy even before the investigation? Are you speaking of the United States of America or Alice in Wonderland?

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

A confessed state of mind of the Chief Justice and his underlings IS evidence.

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

I refer you back to Wesley Liebler's assertion that Chief Justice Warren wanted a coverup if the investigation led to suspicions of conspiracy. I don't know what one could possibly conceive of as more proof of bad will than that!

RoboTimbo · 8th December 2011, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by Hubert Cumberdale

Without going through the whole thread, has Roberto said what times it are yet?

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...59356cfeff.jpg

Nope. That was his cowardly dodge #742.

Walter Ego · 8th December 2011, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by Hubert Cumberdale

Without going through the whole thread, has Roberto said what times it are yet?

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...59356cfeff.jpg

Robert has followed his usual pattern of argumentation regarding the shadow angles in the backyard photos. He just creates a mantra and repeats it over and over. Note that he shifts the burden of proof onto us to prove him wrong. He doesn't have to prove anything.

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

If the backyard photos are genuine then how do you explain the ghosted photo of LHO? The creator of the Ghosted photo, Det. Bobby G. Brown, explained it this way,
"I did it, just to be doing something."
Do you buy that?

And then there are the numerous anomalies. My favorite is 133B, where the rifle is pointed at 11 o'clock, but in the shadow, it clearly points to 9 o'clock. Just try it sometime.

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

Nobody has proven the adverse shadow that I refer to in 133B. No source has "retracted" claims. And the only experts that have upheld the photos as genuine have connections to Am. Intell, in other words the conspirators.

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

As has been pointed out, the shadow of the rifle on 133B is inconsistent and the example of your Dartmath "expert" has nothing to do with 133B. The only way to disprove it, is to duplicate it. Go for it, or forever hold your peace.

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

What you have here is a single shadow that cannot be compared to any other. In 133B you have the shadow of the man, the shadow of the rifle and the shadow of outstretched hands while the live figure has vertical hands none of which is consistent. If you want to prove 133B genuine, then duplicate IT.

Tomtomkent · 8th December 2011, 08:02 AM

The last post seeming to ignore that this threads resident model maker did "replicate it".

Robert Prey · 8th December 2011, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by Hubert Cumberdale

Without going through the whole thread, has Roberto said what times it are yet?

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...59356cfeff.jpg

Time to replicate the original b/y photo example, with two shadows, the refracted shadows of which are not consistent.

TheRedWorm · 8th December 2011, 09:17 AM

Your analysis is invalid.

bynmdsue · 8th December 2011, 09:34 AM

There's a video earlier in the thread where a fellow does replicate it over and over and over, hilariously. Lemme go find it.
BAM!
from page 9(!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AuNDNpY4f4

Border Reiver · 8th December 2011, 09:38 AM

Given the passage of time (48 years) what's point of this alleged conspiracy?

Any conspirators are either dead or so close to it as to make it irrelevant.

Anyone in any institution that may or may not have done anything to bring any kind of conspiracy off at the time is long since retired, as very likely their successor and their successor's successor's successor is as well, meaning that any "punishment" meted out to organizations would be beyond ludicrous.

And in the end, what would proving a conspiracy change?

Tomtomkent · 8th December 2011, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

Time to replicate the original b/y photo example, with two shadows, the refracted shadows of which are not consistent. http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...0f0b0e4626.jpg

Already been done.

If you ignored it so far why should it be posted again?

Tomtomkent · 8th December 2011, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by I Ratant

I couldn't get to Neely Street, so I made a model...
And drew up the backyard and people in Autocad..
Either can be positioned to any time of the day.

Is it really time to replicate the photos? Funny this model replicated it 40 pages ago... poor robert. If his theory of how shadows work is blown out of the water he just pretends it hasn't....

Tomtomkent · 8th December 2011, 09:51 AM

Quote:

And in the end, what would proving a conspiracy change?

Apparently Newtonion physics, the characteristics of light, ballistic theory and the wounds on the body of JFK. And the definition of "hero".

matt.tansy · 8th December 2011, 10:20 AM

Why is it every CT is incapable of visualizing how shadows will fall in our 3D world?

Some idiotic Moon Hoax movie said one photo showed the angle cast by an astronaut's head onto the surface measured 26° but the Sun was only 15° above the horizon at the time so therefore the photo was faked. They failed to mention foreshortening.

bynmdsue · 8th December 2011, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by matt.tansy

Why is it every CT is incapable of visualizing how shadows will fall in our 3D world?

Some idiotic Moon Hoax movie said one photo showed the angle cast by an astronaut's head onto the surface measured 26° but the Sun was only 15° above the horizon at the time so therefore the photo was faked. They failed to mention foreshortening.

They don't go outside very often.

Robert Prey · 8th December 2011, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by matt.tansy

Why is it every CT is incapable of visualizing how shadows will fall in our 3D world?

Some idiotic Moon Hoax movie said one photo showed the angle cast by an astronaut's head onto the surface measured 26° but the Sun was only 15° above the horizon at the time so therefore the photo was faked. They failed to mention foreshortening.

I had one guy so peeved at my ignorance of shadows that he went right to the backyard in question at the right time of day with broomstick in hand. But he failed to replicate.

Robert Prey · 8th December 2011, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Border Reiver

Given the passage of time (48 years) what's point of this alleged conspiracy?

Any conspirators are either dead or so close to it as to make it irrelevant.

Anyone in any institution that may or may not have done anything to bring any kind of conspiracy off at the time is long since retired, as very likely their successor and their successor's successor's successor is as well, meaning that any "punishment" meted out to organizations would be beyond ludicrous.

And in the end, what would proving a conspiracy change?

Perhaps an enlightening of a generation of Americans, not so easily conned.

Walter Ego · 8th December 2011, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by matt.tansy

Why is it every CT is incapable of visualizing how shadows will fall in our 3D world?

Some idiotic Moon Hoax movie said one photo showed the angle cast by an astronaut's head onto the surface measured 26° but the Sun was only 15° above the horizon at the time so therefore the photo was faked. They failed to mention foreshortening.

Shadow directions are meaningless in attempting to prove 2D photographs have been faked. Shadow directions are part of the "evidence" the Moon Hoax conspiracy kooks (like Jack White, one of Robert's photographic "experts" on the JFK assassination) used to attempt to discredit NASA photos taken on the moon on the Apollo missions.

Channel Five in the UK did a great show back in 2003 about the Moon Hoax conspiratards and demolished this shadow "evidence." Here is the link to that documentary cued up to the relevant segment.

Robert just keeps repeating his mantras. He has not come up with anything new. He has not proven anything.

bynmdsue · 8th December 2011, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

I had one guy so peeved at my ignorance of shadows that he went right to the backyard in question at the right time of day with broomstick in hand. But he failed to replicate.

You just won't watch the video will you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AuNDNpY4f4

I know it's 11 mins long but you only need to see the first 30 secs.

Walter Ego · 8th December 2011, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by bynmdsue

You just won't watch the video will you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AuNDNpY4f4

I know it's 11 mins long but you only need to see the first 30 secs.

Robert isn't going to watch the video so here's a screen grab from the video next to the picture of Robert's hero (the one he keeps posting and claims is a fake).

vtbub · 8th December 2011, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Border Reiver

Given the passage of time (48 years) what's point of this alleged conspiracy?

Any conspirators are either dead or so close to it as to make it irrelevant.

Anyone in any institution that may or may not have done anything to bring any kind of conspiracy off at the time is long since retired, as very likely their successor and their successor's successor's successor is as well, meaning that any "punishment" meted out to organizations would be beyond ludicrous.

And in the end, what would proving a conspiracy change?

It would confirm in our minds that suspicion that the US Government had not been straight with us. Remember, this is the granddad of modern conspiracy theories. People still think that Oswald didn't act alone. Having the JFK movie come out 20 years ago didn't help in cementing the case against Oswald. Those of us who have studied it and come to the conclusion that it was Oswald and Oswald alone are in the minority.

RoboTimbo · 8th December 2011, 06:46 PM

Robert, what times are it?

Bang! LOL.

CurtC · 8th December 2011, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

I had one guy so peeved at my ignorance of shadows that he went right to the backyard in question at the right time of day with broomstick in hand. But he failed to replicate.

Are you Rouser2's brother? He and you use the same words, such as "amen chorus," "goose stepping," and you both referred to broomsticks in replicating the back yard photos.

Hmmmm

Tomtomkent · 8th December 2011, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

I had one guy so peeved at my ignorance of shadows that he went right to the backyard in question at the right time of day with broomstick in hand. But he failed to replicate.

You have also had the shadows replicated. Besides the only post I can find describing this story has you state he was removed from the premises before attempting his experiment. So hardly supporting your possition that the shadows are impossible.

Tomtomkent · 8th December 2011, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

Robert isn't going to watch the video so here's a screen grab from the video next to the picture of Robert's hero (the one he keeps posting and claims is a fake).

That is clearly a magical baseball cap...Or Robert is still wrong.

kookbreaker · 8th December 2011, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by CurtC

Are you Rouser2's brother? He and you use the same words, such as "amen chorus," "goose stepping," and you both referred to broomsticks in replicating the back yard photos.

Hmmmm

Odds are the person actually did a decent duplication and Rouser, err, Robert moved the goalposts and declared victory.

Robert Prey · 9th December 2011, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by bynmdsue

You just won't watch the video will you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AuNDNpY4f4

I know it's 11 mins long but you only need to see the first 30 secs.

Looks impressive. The guy appears to have achieved the impossible. But do you believe in Magic? Each time the guy moves the angle of the pipe from 11 o'clock to 10 o'clock when showing the 90 degree shadow, which does not quite make it to 90 degrees. Nonetheless, an impressive trick. I tried, but couldn't do it even cheating. The big log is just another magicians prop, being sufficiently curved to achieve the intended shadow.
But nice try.

RoboTimbo · 9th December 2011, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

Looks impressive. The guy appears to have achieved the impossible. But do you believe in Magic? Each time the guy moves the angle of the pipe from 11 o'clock to 10 o'clock when showing the 90 degree shadow, which does not quite make it to 90 degrees. Nonetheless, an impressive trick. I tried, but couldn't do it even cheating. The big log is just another magicians prop, being sufficiently curved to achieve the intended shadow.
But nice try.

You're bragging that you're too inept to achieve the same result? Did you ever comprehend what the picture of the posts with shadows was telling you?

BANG!

EventHorizon · 9th December 2011, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

I tried, but couldn't do it even cheating. The big log is just another magicians prop, being sufficiently curved to achieve the intended shadow.
But nice try.

Aha! We have something to add to your false dichotomy to make it a false trichotomy. Are you lying, mistaken or incompetent?

RoboTimbo · 9th December 2011, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

Looks impressive. The guy appears to have achieved the impossible. But do you believe in Magic? Each time the guy moves the angle of the pipe from 11 o'clock to 10 o'clock when showing the 90 degree shadow, which does not quite make it to 90 degrees. Nonetheless, an impressive trick. I tried, but couldn't do it even cheating. The big log is just another magicians prop, being sufficiently curved to achieve the intended shadow.
But nice try.

I claim this Stundie for Spain.

Walter Ego · 9th December 2011, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by RoboTimbo

You're bragging that you're too inept to achieve the same result?

The other possibility is that Robert is lying. The guy in the video duplicated the shadow in the backyard photo so it must be a magic trick. Robert isn't even trying anymore.

RoboTimbo · 9th December 2011, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

The other possibility is that Robert is lying. The guy in the video duplicated the shadow in the backyard photo so it must be a magic trick. Robert isn't even trying anymore.

You're asking me to believe that Robert is lying? I'll only believe that if he doesn't post the video of him trying it himself and showing his ineptitude in duplicating the shadow.

Ok, Robert. Go ahead and post your video to show you aren't lying.

kookbreaker · 9th December 2011, 06:57 PM

So basically Robert is arguing that...a wizard did it?

matt.tansy · 9th December 2011, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

I tried, but couldn't do it even cheating.

Why you thought you could cheat the laws of physics is beyond my ability to comprehend.

Walter Ego · 10th December 2011, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by RoboTimbo

You're asking me to believe that Robert is lying? I'll only believe that if he doesn't post the video of him trying it himself and showing his ineptitude in duplicating the shadow.

I wasn't saying that Robert is necessarily lying. I'm saying there are two possibilities, that he is inept (as you suggested) or that he is being less than truthful.

Robert says the shadow angles in the backyard photo of his hero Lee Harvey Oswald cannot be recreated therefore the photo is a fake.

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

I tried, but couldn't do it even cheating.

The posted video shows the shadows can be easily recreated. Robert says it must be some kind of magic trick. You are correct, however, that Robert can clear this up by posting a video (preferably featuring himself) showing that the shadow angles cannot be recreated without trickery.

The ball is in your court, Mr. Prey.

Tomtomkent · 10th December 2011, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by Robert Prey

Looks impressive. The guy appears to have achieved the impossible. But do you believe in Magic? Each time the guy moves the angle of the pipe from 11 o'clock to 10 o'clock when showing the 90 degree shadow, which does not quite make it to 90 degrees. Nonetheless, an impressive trick. I tried, but couldn't do it even cheating. The big log is just another magicians prop, being sufficiently curved to achieve the intended shadow.
But nice try.

You are the same Robert Prey who argues that the existence of existence must mean a god outside the universe obeying different rules? That people should open their minds to the spiritual? If so... why would "magic" be an invalid response? Do you follow different rules here from the USA politics threads? Oh my... so only some kinds of magic should be believedin?

More importantly, as this is the James Randi Educational Foundation, if you mean "magic" in the stage sense, then that should give the clue that a fair few people around here have a vested interest in the simplicity of achieving "impossible" shadows.

Robert Prey · 10th December 2011, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Walter Ego

I wasn't saying that Robert is necessarily lying. I'm saying there are two possibilities, that he is inept (as you suggested) or that he is being less than truthful.

Robert says the shadow angles in the backyard photo of his hero Lee Harvey Oswald cannot be recreated therefore the photo is a fake.
The posted video shows the shadows can be easily recreated. Robert says it must be some kind of magic trick. You are correct, however, that Robert can clear this up by posting a video (preferably featuring himself) showing that the shadow angles cannot be recreated without trickery.

The ball is in your court, Mr. Prey.

Oh, ye of little faith. This is so ridiculous, but nonetheless in the interest of science and especially FRAUD detection, here is what the shadow refraction is supposed to look like, un-tainted, forged, or slight of handed:

6th December 2011, 09:31 AM	#1921
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Kent, United Kingdom Posts: 5,210	Originally Posted by Robert Prey A seven years after the fact rationalization of an original memo which mandated One Lone Nut or Cover it Up. Yes, there have been several pieces of evidence claimed to be part of a cover up or whitewash. No evidence has been offered to suggest this is the case, other than it conflicts with the Parkland statements. Which are not supported by material evidence. Where is the material evidence to support the Parkland documents Robert?
	__________________ @tomhodden No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

6th December 2011, 09:45 AM	#1922
Hubert Cumberdale Muse Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 555	Without going through the whole thread, has Roberto said what times it are yet?
Hubert Cumberdale Muse Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 555	Last edited by Hubert Cumberdale; 6th December 2011 at 09:46 AM.

6th December 2011, 09:53 AM	#1923
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Kent, United Kingdom Posts: 5,210	Originally Posted by Hubert Cumberdale Without going through the whole thread, has Roberto said what times it are yet? http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...59356cfeff.jpg No, just that doesn't prove anything and the back yard photos are fake. IIRC.
	__________________ @tomhodden No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

6th December 2011, 11:04 AM	#1925
Hubert Cumberdale Muse Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 555	Yeah, I was going to catalogue every question Roberticanus has dodged answering but then I realised its pretty much all of them and it would take me a month.
Hubert Cumberdale Muse Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 555

6th December 2011, 02:33 PM	#1926
Walter Ego Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,557	Evidence? Robert Don't Need No Stinkin' Evidence! Originally Posted by RoboTimbo Evidence? Robert doesn't have any evidence. Robert doesn't need any evidence. What he has is bare assertion like the examples below. If he believes it to be true, it is true and that is sufficient. Evidence is boring. Evidence is for the brainwashed masses and stick in the mud skeptics. He is above all that. Originally Posted by Robert Prey The Warren Report is a Whitewash. Originally Posted by Robert Prey The Warren Commission was formed to convict a single dead man for the crime and convince the public that no real independent investigation was warranted. Originally Posted by Robert Prey And it was Katzenbach's suggestion that no one even consider a wider conspiracy. Originally Posted by Robert Prey So the facts do not support a conspiracy even before the investigation? Are you speaking of the United States of America or Alice in Wonderland? Originally Posted by Robert Prey A confessed state of mind of the Chief Justice and his underlings IS evidence. Originally Posted by Robert Prey I refer you back to Wesley Liebler's assertion that Chief Justice Warren wanted a coverup if the investigation led to suspicions of conspiracy. I don't know what one could possibly conceive of as more proof of bad will than that!

6th December 2011, 10:17 AM	#1924
bynmdsue Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,385	Originally Posted by Tomtomkent No, just that doesn't prove anything and the back yard photos are fake. IIRC. Them shadows is painted on the ground. Woooo!

8th December 2011, 05:36 AM	#1927
RoboTimbo Hostile Nanobacon Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Prosperity, AZ Posts: 21,847	Originally Posted by Hubert Cumberdale Without going through the whole thread, has Roberto said what times it are yet? http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...59356cfeff.jpg Nope. That was his cowardly dodge #742.

8th December 2011, 07:56 AM	#1928
Walter Ego Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,557	Originally Posted by Hubert Cumberdale Without going through the whole thread, has Roberto said what times it are yet? http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...59356cfeff.jpg Robert has followed his usual pattern of argumentation regarding the shadow angles in the backyard photos. He just creates a mantra and repeats it over and over. Note that he shifts the burden of proof onto us to prove him wrong. He doesn't have to prove anything. Originally Posted by Robert Prey If the backyard photos are genuine then how do you explain the ghosted photo of LHO? The creator of the Ghosted photo, Det. Bobby G. Brown, explained it this way, "I did it, just to be doing something." Do you buy that? And then there are the numerous anomalies. My favorite is 133B, where the rifle is pointed at 11 o'clock, but in the shadow, it clearly points to 9 o'clock. Just try it sometime. Originally Posted by Robert Prey Nobody has proven the adverse shadow that I refer to in 133B. No source has "retracted" claims. And the only experts that have upheld the photos as genuine have connections to Am. Intell, in other words the conspirators. Originally Posted by Robert Prey As has been pointed out, the shadow of the rifle on 133B is inconsistent and the example of your Dartmath "expert" has nothing to do with 133B. The only way to disprove it, is to duplicate it. Go for it, or forever hold your peace. Originally Posted by Robert Prey What you have here is a single shadow that cannot be compared to any other. In 133B you have the shadow of the man, the shadow of the rifle and the shadow of outstretched hands while the live figure has vertical hands none of which is consistent. If you want to prove 133B genuine, then duplicate IT.

8th December 2011, 08:02 AM	#1929
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Kent, United Kingdom Posts: 5,210	The last post seeming to ignore that this threads resident model maker did "replicate it".
	__________________ @tomhodden No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

8th December 2011, 09:15 AM	#1930
Robert Prey Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6,476	Originally Posted by Hubert Cumberdale Without going through the whole thread, has Roberto said what times it are yet? http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...59356cfeff.jpg Time to replicate the original b/y photo example, with two shadows, the refracted shadows of which are not consistent.
Robert Prey Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6,476

8th December 2011, 09:17 AM	#1931
TheRedWorm I AM the Red Worm! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Body: Michigan, Heart: Chicago Posts: 3,886	Your analysis is invalid.
	__________________ See I'm not a monster, I'm just ahead of the curve. -Joker Working them to death is murder. Making them live like pigs and dying from disease is murder. Shooting them next to a ditch is murder. Digging them up and burning them to hide your murder, is extra credit evil. -beachnut

8th December 2011, 09:34 AM	#1932
bynmdsue Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,385	There's a video earlier in the thread where a fellow does replicate it over and over and over, hilariously. Lemme go find it. BAM! from page 9(!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AuNDNpY4f4

8th December 2011, 09:38 AM	#1933
Border Reiver Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 2,183	Given the passage of time (48 years) what's point of this alleged conspiracy? Any conspirators are either dead or so close to it as to make it irrelevant. Anyone in any institution that may or may not have done anything to bring any kind of conspiracy off at the time is long since retired, as very likely their successor and their successor's successor's successor is as well, meaning that any "punishment" meted out to organizations would be beyond ludicrous. And in the end, what would proving a conspiracy change?
	__________________ Questions, comments, queries, bitches, complaints, rude gestures and/or remarks?

8th December 2011, 09:42 AM	#1934
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Kent, United Kingdom Posts: 5,210	Originally Posted by Robert Prey Time to replicate the original b/y photo example, with two shadows, the refracted shadows of which are not consistent. http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...0f0b0e4626.jpg Already been done. If you ignored it so far why should it be posted again?
	__________________ @tomhodden No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

8th December 2011, 09:46 AM	#1935
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Kent, United Kingdom Posts: 5,210	Originally Posted by I Ratant I couldn't get to Neely Street, so I made a model... And drew up the backyard and people in Autocad.. Either can be positioned to any time of the day. Is it really time to replicate the photos? Funny this model replicated it 40 pages ago... poor robert. If his theory of how shadows work is blown out of the water he just pretends it hasn't....
	__________________ @tomhodden No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

8th December 2011, 09:51 AM	#1936
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Kent, United Kingdom Posts: 5,210	Quote: And in the end, what would proving a conspiracy change? Apparently Newtonion physics, the characteristics of light, ballistic theory and the wounds on the body of JFK. And the definition of "hero".
	__________________ @tomhodden No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

8th December 2011, 10:20 AM	#1937
matt.tansy Muse Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Groton, CT Posts: 800	Why is it every CT is incapable of visualizing how shadows will fall in our 3D world? Some idiotic Moon Hoax movie said one photo showed the angle cast by an astronaut's head onto the surface measured 26° but the Sun was only 15° above the horizon at the time so therefore the photo was faked. They failed to mention foreshortening.
	__________________ Enough with your Apollo is true by virtue of an appeal to reason... - Patrick1000 probably my bad for trying to back engineer the lunacy -jaydeehess

8th December 2011, 10:24 AM	#1938
bynmdsue Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,385	Originally Posted by matt.tansy Why is it every CT is incapable of visualizing how shadows will fall in our 3D world? Some idiotic Moon Hoax movie said one photo showed the angle cast by an astronaut's head onto the surface measured 26° but the Sun was only 15° above the horizon at the time so therefore the photo was faked. They failed to mention foreshortening. They don't go outside very often.

8th December 2011, 02:00 PM	#1939
Robert Prey Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6,476	Originally Posted by matt.tansy Why is it every CT is incapable of visualizing how shadows will fall in our 3D world? Some idiotic Moon Hoax movie said one photo showed the angle cast by an astronaut's head onto the surface measured 26° but the Sun was only 15° above the horizon at the time so therefore the photo was faked. They failed to mention foreshortening. I had one guy so peeved at my ignorance of shadows that he went right to the backyard in question at the right time of day with broomstick in hand. But he failed to replicate.
Robert Prey Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6,476

8th December 2011, 02:02 PM	#1940
Robert Prey Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6,476	Originally Posted by Border Reiver Given the passage of time (48 years) what's point of this alleged conspiracy? Any conspirators are either dead or so close to it as to make it irrelevant. Anyone in any institution that may or may not have done anything to bring any kind of conspiracy off at the time is long since retired, as very likely their successor and their successor's successor's successor is as well, meaning that any "punishment" meted out to organizations would be beyond ludicrous. And in the end, what would proving a conspiracy change? Perhaps an enlightening of a generation of Americans, not so easily conned.
Robert Prey Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6,476

8th December 2011, 02:58 PM	#1941
Walter Ego Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,557	Originally Posted by matt.tansy Why is it every CT is incapable of visualizing how shadows will fall in our 3D world? Some idiotic Moon Hoax movie said one photo showed the angle cast by an astronaut's head onto the surface measured 26° but the Sun was only 15° above the horizon at the time so therefore the photo was faked. They failed to mention foreshortening. Shadow directions are meaningless in attempting to prove 2D photographs have been faked. Shadow directions are part of the "evidence" the Moon Hoax conspiracy kooks (like Jack White, one of Robert's photographic "experts" on the JFK assassination) used to attempt to discredit NASA photos taken on the moon on the Apollo missions. Channel Five in the UK did a great show back in 2003 about the Moon Hoax conspiratards and demolished this shadow "evidence." Here is the link to that documentary cued up to the relevant segment. Robert just keeps repeating his mantras. He has not come up with anything new. He has not proven anything.

8th December 2011, 03:05 PM	#1942
bynmdsue Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,385	Originally Posted by Robert Prey I had one guy so peeved at my ignorance of shadows that he went right to the backyard in question at the right time of day with broomstick in hand. But he failed to replicate. You just won't watch the video will you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AuNDNpY4f4 I know it's 11 mins long but you only need to see the first 30 secs.

8th December 2011, 06:11 PM	#1944
vtbub Thinker Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 150	Originally Posted by Border Reiver Given the passage of time (48 years) what's point of this alleged conspiracy? Any conspirators are either dead or so close to it as to make it irrelevant. Anyone in any institution that may or may not have done anything to bring any kind of conspiracy off at the time is long since retired, as very likely their successor and their successor's successor's successor is as well, meaning that any "punishment" meted out to organizations would be beyond ludicrous. And in the end, what would proving a conspiracy change? It would confirm in our minds that suspicion that the US Government had not been straight with us. Remember, this is the granddad of modern conspiracy theories. People still think that Oswald didn't act alone. Having the JFK movie come out 20 years ago didn't help in cementing the case against Oswald. Those of us who have studied it and come to the conclusion that it was Oswald and Oswald alone are in the minority.
vtbub Thinker Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 150

8th December 2011, 06:46 PM	#1945
RoboTimbo Hostile Nanobacon Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Prosperity, AZ Posts: 21,847	Robert, what times are it? Bang! LOL.

8th December 2011, 06:49 PM	#1946
CurtC Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 4,758	Originally Posted by Robert Prey I had one guy so peeved at my ignorance of shadows that he went right to the backyard in question at the right time of day with broomstick in hand. But he failed to replicate. Are you Rouser2's brother? He and you use the same words, such as "amen chorus," "goose stepping," and you both referred to broomsticks in replicating the back yard photos. Hmmmm
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8th December 2011, 07:12 PM	#1947
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Kent, United Kingdom Posts: 5,210	Originally Posted by Robert Prey I had one guy so peeved at my ignorance of shadows that he went right to the backyard in question at the right time of day with broomstick in hand. But he failed to replicate. You have also had the shadows replicated. Besides the only post I can find describing this story has you state he was removed from the premises before attempting his experiment. So hardly supporting your possition that the shadows are impossible.
	__________________ @tomhodden No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

8th December 2011, 07:16 PM	#1948
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Kent, United Kingdom Posts: 5,210	Originally Posted by Walter Ego Robert isn't going to watch the video so here's a screen grab from the video next to the picture of Robert's hero (the one he keeps posting and claims is a fake). That is clearly a magical baseball cap...Or Robert is still wrong.
	__________________ @tomhodden No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

8th December 2011, 07:42 PM	#1949
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,174	Originally Posted by CurtC Are you Rouser2's brother? He and you use the same words, such as "amen chorus," "goose stepping," and you both referred to broomsticks in replicating the back yard photos. Hmmmm Odds are the person actually did a decent duplication and Rouser, err, Robert moved the goalposts and declared victory.
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,174	__________________ Thanks for helping me win Best Children's Gifts and Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011 & 2012! Spectrum Scientifics - My store - Google it people!

9th December 2011, 10:43 AM	#1950
Robert Prey Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6,476	Do you Believe in Magic Originally Posted by bynmdsue You just won't watch the video will you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AuNDNpY4f4 I know it's 11 mins long but you only need to see the first 30 secs. Looks impressive. The guy appears to have achieved the impossible. But do you believe in Magic? Each time the guy moves the angle of the pipe from 11 o'clock to 10 o'clock when showing the 90 degree shadow, which does not quite make it to 90 degrees. Nonetheless, an impressive trick. I tried, but couldn't do it even cheating. The big log is just another magicians prop, being sufficiently curved to achieve the intended shadow. But nice try.
Robert Prey Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6,476

9th December 2011, 10:49 AM	#1951
RoboTimbo Hostile Nanobacon Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Prosperity, AZ Posts: 21,847	Originally Posted by Robert Prey Looks impressive. The guy appears to have achieved the impossible. But do you believe in Magic? Each time the guy moves the angle of the pipe from 11 o'clock to 10 o'clock when showing the 90 degree shadow, which does not quite make it to 90 degrees. Nonetheless, an impressive trick. I tried, but couldn't do it even cheating. The big log is just another magicians prop, being sufficiently curved to achieve the intended shadow. But nice try. You're bragging that you're too inept to achieve the same result? Did you ever comprehend what the picture of the posts with shadows was telling you? BANG!

9th December 2011, 12:53 PM	#1952
EventHorizon Atheist Tergiversator Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,840	Originally Posted by Robert Prey I tried, but couldn't do it even cheating. The big log is just another magicians prop, being sufficiently curved to achieve the intended shadow. But nice try. Aha! We have something to add to your false dichotomy to make it a false trichotomy. Are you lying, mistaken or incompetent?
	__________________ "One of the hardest parts of being an active skeptic - of anything - is knowing when to cut your losses, and then doing so." -Phil Plait

9th December 2011, 01:02 PM	#1953
RoboTimbo Hostile Nanobacon Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Prosperity, AZ Posts: 21,847	Originally Posted by Robert Prey Looks impressive. The guy appears to have achieved the impossible. But do you believe in Magic? Each time the guy moves the angle of the pipe from 11 o'clock to 10 o'clock when showing the 90 degree shadow, which does not quite make it to 90 degrees. Nonetheless, an impressive trick. I tried, but couldn't do it even cheating. The big log is just another magicians prop, being sufficiently curved to achieve the intended shadow. But nice try. I claim this Stundie for Spain.

9th December 2011, 05:39 PM	#1954
Walter Ego Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,557	Originally Posted by RoboTimbo You're bragging that you're too inept to achieve the same result? The other possibility is that Robert is lying. The guy in the video duplicated the shadow in the backyard photo so it must be a magic trick. Robert isn't even trying anymore.

9th December 2011, 05:52 PM	#1955
RoboTimbo Hostile Nanobacon Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Prosperity, AZ Posts: 21,847	Originally Posted by Walter Ego The other possibility is that Robert is lying. The guy in the video duplicated the shadow in the backyard photo so it must be a magic trick. Robert isn't even trying anymore. You're asking me to believe that Robert is lying? I'll only believe that if he doesn't post the video of him trying it himself and showing his ineptitude in duplicating the shadow. Ok, Robert. Go ahead and post your video to show you aren't lying.

9th December 2011, 06:57 PM	#1956
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,174	So basically Robert is arguing that...a wizard did it?
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,174	__________________ Thanks for helping me win Best Children's Gifts and Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011 & 2012! Spectrum Scientifics - My store - Google it people!