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Old 27th October 2011, 06:20 PM   #1
yog_sothoth
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UFOs? Bigfoot? Is it 1975 in here?

I am amazed and saddened to see that weird ideas that were fresh and new many decades ago are still being beaten on long after their prime. I mean, who still believes in bigfoot? UFOs? Really? The X-Files made UFOs cool again in the 1990's, but that was a while ago.

I see that shows about ancient aliens are in vogue again. I remember being impressed at age 12 that aliens could be the reason that ancient civilizations all over the world made pyramids independently. As an adult I realized that a pyramid is a neat pile of rocks, and that is the only way to make anything tall if you have poor engineering skills.

What does it say about the human race that these dumb ideas just won't die? Aren't there enough new silly ideas to keep people amused?
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Old 27th October 2011, 06:34 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by yog_sothoth View Post
I am amazed and saddened to see that weird ideas that were fresh and new many decades ago are still being beaten on long after their prime. I mean, who still believes in bigfoot? UFOs? Really? The X-Files made UFOs cool again in the 1990's, but that was a while ago.

I see that shows about ancient aliens are in vogue again. I remember being impressed at age 12 that aliens could be the reason that ancient civilizations all over the world made pyramids independently. As an adult I realized that a pyramid is a neat pile of rocks, and that is the only way to make anything tall if you have poor engineering skills.

What does it say about the human race that these dumb ideas just won't die? Aren't there enough new silly ideas to keep people amused?
Did you miss the ghost posters?

Last edited by Resume; 27th October 2011 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 27th October 2011, 06:37 PM   #3
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We also say things like "Jive turkey" and "up your nose with a rubber hose".
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Old 27th October 2011, 06:40 PM   #4
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I think it all comes down to the dollar. If there's someone stupid enough to buy into the hoax (literally) then someone will always want to sell the hoax.

And this is usually found to be the case for almost every woo bearing person ever to have joined JREF. The Omega Wand, Ufology, Bigfoot... the list goes on. If they're not selling it themselves then they have already bought it and have to justify their spend.

And even if the investment doesn't involve cold hard cash there's usually a psychological investment involved.
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Old 27th October 2011, 06:41 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Did you miss the ghost posters?
While it would be cool if ghosts were posting to the forum, that likely isn't what you meant. Sadly.

Ghosts are kind of eternal. Children seem to start off with the belief that ghosts are real by default, and it takes a lot of work to convince them otherwise.
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Old 27th October 2011, 06:47 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Krikkiter View Post
I think it all comes down to the dollar. If there's someone stupid enough to buy into the hoax (literally) then someone will always want to sell the hoax.

And this is usually found to be the case for almost every woo bearing person ever to have joined JREF. The Omega Wand, Ufology, Bigfoot... the list goes on. If they're not selling it themselves then they have already bought it and have to justify their spend.

And even if the investment doesn't involve cold hard cash there's usually a psychological investment involved.
You have a good point. I have seen the multi-level woo marketers in action. Some lady was selling "Tachyon Crystals" at a fair several years ago. It became clear that she was really a sad victim of people who sold her this stuff as a get rich quick scheme.

The people with psychological investments must be getting long in the tooth when it comes to bigfoot. His heyday was in the 1970's and 1980's.
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Old 27th October 2011, 06:49 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by yog_sothoth View Post
While it would be cool if ghosts were posting to the forum, that likely isn't what you meant. Sadly.

Ghosts are kind of eternal. Children seem to start off with the belief that ghosts are real by default, and it takes a lot of work to convince them otherwise.
I guess that all depends on the kids. Mine sort of kind of believed, but it didn't last very long. I think that's because I pooh-poohed it right off; on the other hand I know adults that are way into it and nothing can convince them otherwise. I used to be the resident skeptic on a paranormal site and the crap that was being sold there makes this sub-forum seem tame.
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Old 27th October 2011, 06:53 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Macgyver1968 View Post
We also say things like "Jive turkey" and "up your nose with a rubber hose".

Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis?
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Old 27th October 2011, 07:03 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
I guess that all depends on the kids. Mine sort of kind of believed, but it didn't last very long. I think that's because I pooh-poohed it right off; on the other hand I know adults that are way into it and nothing can convince them otherwise. I used to be the resident skeptic on a paranormal site and the crap that was being sold there makes this sub-forum seem tame.
My wife and I think that children's apparently instinctive belief in monsters keeps them from wandering off alone int he dark away from their parents and has an evolutionary advantage.

That said, adults should know better.

I guess am not so surprised about people still believing in ghosts. Ghosts are part of mythology and superstition and have been for a long time. Bigfoot, UFOs, and ancient aliens are all ideas that sprang up relatively recently and have not panned out.
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Old 27th October 2011, 07:19 PM   #10
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There are so many foras that has people that belives in all kinds of conspiration theories. It may seem weird to us "laymen", but to psychologists and psychiatrists it`s not sad or weird at all. They actually have very good explanations for these delusions.

This would be a grand trawling spot for patients, IMHO. ;-P
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Old 27th October 2011, 07:23 PM   #11
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I think belief in those things feed some people's requirement to feel 'special:'

Flying saucers - We are so special ET comes from vast distances just to be around us for decades, centuries, etc.

Ghosts - We are so special even the dead can't get enough of us.

Bigfoot - Isn't the world a mysterious, magical place we live in?

Ancient Aliens - We are the result of something so advanced we can't even imagine.

I think that and basic ignorance will keep woo among us until the sun expands.
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Old 27th October 2011, 07:26 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by yog_sothoth View Post
You have a good point. I have seen the multi-level woo marketers in action. Some lady was selling "Tachyon Crystals" at a fair several years ago. It became clear that she was really a sad victim of people who sold her this stuff as a get rich quick scheme.

The people with psychological investments must be getting long in the tooth when it comes to bigfoot. His heyday was in the 1970's and 1980's.

That is very sad actually because the people who invent these scams are very, very good at selling things people wouldn't, or at least shouldn't want and are also very good at picking their victims.

Well I'm not sure about the Bigfoot thing. I think the History Channel etc still make documentaries about things like that.

The newest woo I think is the 9/11 truth thing. I'm am ashamed to admit that I once had a psychological investment in that particular brand of woo. At the time it was an easy buy because I was a bit angry at America for having invaded Iraq seemingly without justification. Plus you know, I just couldn't see how GWB could have possibly been elected

Anyway, there's money involved in that one too. DVD's, books, Youtube accounts etc etc. The investments are there and once they're there it's hard to stop.
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Old 27th October 2011, 07:54 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Krikkiter View Post
That is very sad actually because the people who invent these scams are very, very good at selling things people wouldn't, or at least shouldn't want and are also very good at picking their victims.

Well I'm not sure about the Bigfoot thing. I think the History Channel etc still make documentaries about things like that.

The newest woo I think is the 9/11 truth thing. I'm am ashamed to admit that I once had a psychological investment in that particular brand of woo. At the time it was an easy buy because I was a bit angry at America for having invaded Iraq seemingly without justification. Plus you know, I just couldn't see how GWB could have possibly been elected

Anyway, there's money involved in that one too. DVD's, books, Youtube accounts etc etc. The investments are there and once they're there it's hard to stop.
Why be ashamed when you actually came to your senses? Everyone is wrong some time or another. Just think about kids being caught up in cults - many eventually escape it, but its no wonder that they get dragged into it in the first place.

And yeah - the money thingy bothers me as well; the 9/11 "truthers" movement.... the big fishes are just about money - and the little fishes don´t see that they get screwed economically, mentally and actually physically (this CT keeps them sitting in front of their computers; no fresh air, no socialiazing, bad nutrition and bad habits all around.... wouldn`t be surprised if the head CT`ers had some kind of stake in the medical industry - to follow the CT´rs "logical" thinking...hehehehe).

But yes; its sad that some people can be this delusional and still imagine they are right.
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Old 28th October 2011, 12:57 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by minnemouse View Post
Why be ashamed when you actually came to your senses? Everyone is wrong some time or another. Just think about kids being caught up in cults - many eventually escape it, but its no wonder that they get dragged into it in the first place.

And yeah - the money thingy bothers me as well; the 9/11 "truthers" movement.... the big fishes are just about money - and the little fishes don´t see that they get screwed economically, mentally and actually physically (this CT keeps them sitting in front of their computers; no fresh air, no socialiazing, bad nutrition and bad habits all around.... wouldn`t be surprised if the head CT`ers had some kind of stake in the medical industry - to follow the CT´rs "logical" thinking...hehehehe).

But yes; its sad that some people can be this delusional and still imagine they are right.

I guess if I'd kept that piece of woo to myself I wouldn't be so bothered about it. Not that I went around telling all my friends about it but I did try and "open a few eyes" with it. Oh well, live and learn.
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Old 28th October 2011, 03:27 AM   #15
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There are older, stronger and more widespread woo beliefs around. They are called religions.

Religious beliefs are as absurd as any modern woo you can bring to the table.
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Old 28th October 2011, 03:30 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Correa Neto View Post
There are older, stronger and more widespread woo beliefs around. They are called religions.

Religious beliefs are as absurd as any modern woo you can bring to the table.

And far, far more manipulative.
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Old 28th October 2011, 04:35 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Correa Neto View Post
There are older, stronger and more widespread woo beliefs around. They are called religions.

Religious beliefs are as absurd as any modern woo you can bring to the table.
Yes but these even have accredited fields surrounding them. Something called . . . theology I think it is.
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Old 28th October 2011, 05:19 AM   #18
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Cool

Originally Posted by Correa Neto View Post
There are older, stronger and more widespread woo beliefs around. They are called religions.

Religious beliefs are as absurd as any modern woo you can bring to the table.
QFT!
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Old 28th October 2011, 07:41 AM   #19
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Seems to me that bigfoot is going stronger now than it was in the 1970s. One reason: A much larger proportion of people have little to no firsthand experience or real understanding of the natural world.

These days you get city/suburban people looking at a Google Earth image that shows a continuous tree canopy and they interpret the image as "wilderness." Most folks have a really warped view of the difference between real, unexplored wilderness and a decent-sized state park. One result is that they have a much easier time imagining a big, rare species existing undetected than someone educated or experienced in such things. Throw in a pathological distrust of anything "science" says to be so, and you have a perfect storm of bigfoot woo, going strong in 2011.
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Old 28th October 2011, 11:04 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Correa Neto View Post
There are older, stronger and more widespread woo beliefs around. They are called religions.

Religious beliefs are as absurd as any modern woo you can bring to the table.
I am being arbitrarily selective I suppose, but I look at gods and ghosts differently than Bigfoot and UFOs, as gods and ghosts are more ingrained in the culture. I can't fault others for feeling differently. I am not defending belief in gods or ghosts, but one has to work at believing in UFOs and bigfoot while the others can be forced on you by your parents.

I saw in the conspiracy section that some people still think that the moon landing was faked. I put that one in the same level as bigfoot and UFOs.

Shall we design a woo classification system?

1. Woo parents raise children to believe
2. Leftover childhood beliefs that are Woo for a grownup
3. Woo people picked up as an adult and should have known better

I guess I am focusing on "Woo Category 3" that is past its expiration date.

Last edited by yog_sothoth; 28th October 2011 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 28th October 2011, 02:05 PM   #21
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Dude, this is 2011. Not only are Bigfoot and UFOs real, but George Bush is a lizard and the world ends next year.
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Old 28th October 2011, 02:40 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
I guess that all depends on the kids. Mine sort of kind of believed, but it didn't last very long. I think that's because I pooh-poohed it right off; on the other hand I know adults that are way into it and nothing can convince them otherwise. I used to be the resident skeptic on a paranormal site and the crap that was being sold there makes this sub-forum seem tame.
I get this all the time, i live in an old church ( not a church anymore obviously.) and it is spooky, spooky noises , spooky graffitti on the basement walls, and a history that is just...spooky. ( old drunk gent died in the basement, unknown gent killed in front of the house, the list goes on and on.)

Now from time to time i have had people claim that my anti ghost stance is just bluster ( not to be sexist but it is usually a female companion, as almost all of my male friends, are of a skeptic bent.), and some form of trial by fire needs to be instituted. The last time, i upped the ante to as high as it could possibly go.

At midnight, after getting **** faced, i walked into the basement ( the stairs alone were a treat.) and spent 10 minutes or so **** talking the ' ghosts ' in the house. And nothing in the least bit spooky happened.

But still this never seems to convince anyone for some reason.
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Old 28th October 2011, 02:41 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by cambion View Post
Dude, this is 2011. Not only are Bigfoot and UFOs real, but George Bush is a lizard and the world ends next year.
I find that very hard to believe.

It's 2011?!?

Yeah, right!





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Old 28th October 2011, 02:45 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by yog_sothoth View Post
I am amazed and saddened to see that weird ideas that were fresh and new many decades ago are still being beaten on long after their prime. I mean, who still believes in bigfoot? UFOs? Really? The X-Files made UFOs cool again in the 1990's, but that was a while ago.

I see that shows about ancient aliens are in vogue again. I remember being impressed at age 12 that aliens could be the reason that ancient civilizations all over the world made pyramids independently. As an adult I realized that a pyramid is a neat pile of rocks, and that is the only way to make anything tall if you have poor engineering skills.

What does it say about the human race that these dumb ideas just won't die? Aren't there enough new silly ideas to keep people amused?
I have always wanted to see how silly of a thing i can get people to believe on a large scale.

In my woo days i could convince anyone of anything with a variety of methods. Some that are not really " fair play" one could say.

What i want to try to do i set up a site that claims that films such as Nightmare on elm street, Friday the 13th , etc. Are based on a real kind of event , and see how far i can take it before the big reveal. Kind of a " Rise of leslie vernon" done as a legitimate documentary. I think it would appeal to the ct crowd.

Problem is, the only 'evidence' i could think of would be using real mass murders and going all ct on them. And i don't really like the idea of using peoples deaths to make a point.
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Old 28th October 2011, 02:49 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Seems to me that bigfoot is going stronger now than it was in the 1970s. One reason: A much larger proportion of people have little to no firsthand experience or real understanding of the natural world.

These days you get city/suburban people looking at a Google Earth image that shows a continuous tree canopy and they interpret the image as "wilderness." Most folks have a really warped view of the difference between real, unexplored wilderness and a decent-sized state park. One result is that they have a much easier time imagining a big, rare species existing undetected than someone educated or experienced in such things. Throw in a pathological distrust of anything "science" says to be so, and you have a perfect storm of bigfoot woo, going strong in 2011.
I'll go one step further and just blame the internet.

A comedian i cannot remember the name of said it best " Any ******* can find some other ******* on the internet that shares their opinion. "

Back in the days before the net , these folks may have brought up their belief to friends, and assuming they had a decent amount of level headed friends, would have said belief shot down, or debunked.

Now, no matter what you believe, you can find a website where others share the delusion, giving one the impression that there is a rational basis for said belief.

Thanks the net, not only have you ruined, ninjas, kittens, pirates, the word epic, chuck norris, vin deisel , and documentaries. You have given woo a nice shot in the arm.
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Old 28th October 2011, 03:01 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
I have always wanted to see how silly of a thing i can get people to believe on a large scale.
Classic example: PC Professional columnist Lisa Holst accidentally did this in the early 90's with the whole "the average person swallows 8 spiders in their sleep" thing, which she made up to parody people who believed stupid things that were being circulated via email.
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Old 28th October 2011, 04:10 PM   #27
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sadhatter, you are probably right about the internet. Also, even if the number of people believing in bigfoot are smaller, you will see them more often here.
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Old 28th October 2011, 04:21 PM   #28
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I agree, the internet and mass emails have made the world smaller when it comes to finding like minded individuals.

Originally Posted by cambion View Post
Classic example: PC Professional columnist Lisa Holst accidentally did this in the early 90's with the whole "the average person swallows 8 spiders in their sleep" thing, which she made up to parody people who believed stupid things that were being circulated via email.
That certainly feeds into some people's paranoia. It sounds like it could be true and I'm scared of it so it must be true. Reminds me of an email I received from a politically far leaning individual containing several supposed quotes from a political candidate's book. Predictably, two seconds research revealed the quotes were either manufactured or completely taken out of context.

His reply when I showed him the actual quotes was, "We'll it sounds like something that @sshole would say."
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Old 28th October 2011, 04:32 PM   #29
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Dang, just did a little research about the Lisa Holst thing, and it looks like that might have been made up too. I guess the spider thing is such bullcrap that even the rational explanation for it isn't true.
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Old 28th October 2011, 07:12 PM   #30
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sadhatter,
I call it Woo-Infrastructure
Some beliefs have far more advanced reporting systems, 'investigators'(so of course the reports are true, they have been investigated), support structures (forums, message boards, pseudo-journals), etc...

Bigfoot, in the sixties was on the cutting edge, with newsletters, books, films, and club memberships. Bigfootry has a well developed modern infrastructure to support and encourage people to believe.
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Old 28th October 2011, 07:36 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
sadhatter,


Bigfoot, in the sixties was on the cutting edge, with newsletters, books, films, and club memberships. Bigfootry has a well developed modern infrastructure to support and encourage people to believe.
It will all come crashing down very soon, seems like the rush too use DNA as evidence for the argument is falling apart 3 ways to Sunday, and that leaves no were to go but a lame argument from the BF supporters of shorty testing, that in turn will accuse the very labs and people that were supported as being wrong in there findings, and it will go on and on
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Old 28th October 2011, 11:21 PM   #32
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I can understand where the OP is coming from, but really it's not the internet, or anything modern.. It's just that people always keep recycling old ideas into new generations. I mean, look at the idea of ghosts.. and hauntings.. that crap has gone on for a couple thousand years at least. Not any sign of people giving up on the idea of ghosts any time soon, sadly.

Or religion.
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Old 29th October 2011, 03:38 AM   #33
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i disagree, some of the oldest oral epics and poems were of ghost stories, monsters (think Beowulf and Odyssey). When people sit around the fire, they told ghost stories, they didnt opine about the downside of animal-fat soap. Religion was one of the first things to use the printing press, the bible is the best selling book ever. I would sat the religious infrastructure is the main reason religon continues to thrive. But, of the monster myths, bigfootry has been on the cutting edge.
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Old 29th October 2011, 05:40 AM   #34
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Yog_sothoth, you don't think this kind of thing is going to end, do you? I know people who think "The Lair of the White Worm" is a documentary.
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Old 29th October 2011, 06:35 AM   #35
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The internet has definitely made these topics more popular because they are more accessible and anyone can now write anything about them. The UFO and paranormal groups used to only have newsletters by mail to communicate. Now it is instant - you can find a like-minded group in your area and you are now more likely to become involved with it. And more deeply involved at that. The computer is your connection to a world network of people who get you. The same has happened to skeptics groups. This ease of communication matters.

When I saw this thread title, I was reminded of this bit of confusion: why are UFOs still associated with Bigfoot? The push has been for cryptozoology to become more naturally-oriented. Not supernaturally. Sure there are some groups that communicate psychically with Bigfoot but for the most part, these monster hunters are about getting physical evidence. I can't quite understand why the UFO and Bigfoot groups have joint conferences. I guess it's the same interested audience and it can't be helped. Yet, the woo aspect of the paranormal believers just kills any credibility of the groups out there who think BF is a real animal.

Finally, I'll make a point that Brian Regal and I both discovered independently in our simultaneous research into the people who search for BF. It was alluded to above: serious leisure. People are dissatisfied with the current job or state in life and feel they can contribute to something great by investigating the paranormal. So they spend their free time in a alternate "career" of researching these topics. It provides meaning and purpose to their lives. Again, the same can be said with volunteer skeptical activism.
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Old 29th October 2011, 06:53 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by idoubtit View Post
Finally, I'll make a point that Brian Regal and I both discovered independently in our simultaneous research into the people who search for BF. It was alluded to above: serious leisure. People are dissatisfied with the current job or state in life and feel they can contribute to something great by investigating the paranormal. So they spend their free time in a alternate "career" of researching these topics. It provides meaning and purpose to their lives. Again, the same can be said with volunteer skeptical activism.
I'd like to just add that peppered among these are true believers, those who are convinced they "seen one." In one instance I am absolutely certain that the person is literally chasing a dream; I know for a fact he was fast asleep during the alleged encounter. This was over 40 years ago so it's clear how dearly some cling to these sightings.
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Old 29th October 2011, 06:55 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by The Shrike View Post
Seems to me that bigfoot is going stronger now than it was in the 1970s. One reason: A much larger proportion of people have little to no firsthand experience or real understanding of the natural world.

These days you get city/suburban people looking at a Google Earth image that shows a continuous tree canopy and they interpret the image as "wilderness." Most folks have a really warped view of the difference between real, unexplored wilderness and a decent-sized state park. One result is that they have a much easier time imagining a big, rare species existing undetected than someone educated or experienced in such things. Throw in a pathological distrust of anything "science" says to be so, and you have a perfect storm of bigfoot woo, going strong in 2011.
Exactly. Back when I used to lurk BFF 1.0 there was a post about how someone had driven thru eastern KY and knew that all that "wilderness" could support BF (I think it was a thread about the KY pancake eating BF, but I am not certain). There is no wilderness in KY. The whole state, except for a few small parcels, was logged and big game animals extirpated by about the turn of the 20th century.

WGBH/John Cartwright also had a warped sense of what constituted wilderness. Of course, IMHO, WGBH was a liar who told his BF tale to gain acceptance among his chosen group of bleevers. His tale was too elaborate to have been an hallucination, again, IMHO.

Last edited by clayflingythingy; 29th October 2011 at 06:58 AM. Reason: Correct spelling
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Old 29th October 2011, 10:23 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by yog_sothoth View Post
I am being arbitrarily selective I suppose, but I look at gods and ghosts differently than Bigfoot and UFOs, as gods and ghosts are more ingrained in the culture. I can't fault others for feeling differently. I am not defending belief in gods or ghosts, but one has to work at believing in UFOs and bigfoot while the others can be forced on you by your parents.

I saw in the conspiracy section that some people still think that the moon landing was faked. I put that one in the same level as bigfoot and UFOs.

Shall we design a woo classification system?

1. Woo parents raise children to believe
2. Leftover childhood beliefs that are Woo for a grownup
3. Woo people picked up as an adult and should have known better

I guess I am focusing on "Woo Category 3" that is past its expiration date.
Its possible some people may have already inherited UFO or bigfoot belief from their parents. UFOs' been around since the late 40's, bigfoot since the late 60's, so...

There's another issue. Personally I think, based on mostly anecdotal data, that there is a trend- if you tender one woo belief, such as religion, "New Agey" or esoteric stuff, the odds are you are more likely to tender another one. Many footers believe in UFOs and ghosts, many UFOlogists believe in bigfoots and so on. There's also the case of fundamentalists Christians who believe in bigfoot and other cryptids because they would "deny evolution", thus reinforcing their main belief.

This put, it does seem to be true that certain forms of woo, such as religion, are more socially acceptable than others. I know Christians whom consider some UFO and cryptozoology believers as nuts. Personally, I can't help but finding it all funny. A bigfoot, at least the flesh-and-bones myth variety, is scientifically possible (sure, there's no evidence, etc.) and a similar case could be made regarding alien visitation. But the Universal Flood, YEC, ID, [add religion-based nonsense of your choice here] are much more implausible if not impossible based on scientific evidence available. And no, lets face it, lets be practical and utilitarian- this situation will not change. A basic level of science education shows its BS.

So, with this in mind, its really not surprising that people "still" debate bigfoot and UFOs. Just remember that most people still believe in much weider things.
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Old 29th October 2011, 05:49 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by idoubtit View Post
When I saw this thread title, I was reminded of this bit of confusion: why are UFOs still associated with Bigfoot? The push has been for cryptozoology to become more naturally-oriented. Not supernaturally. Sure there are some groups that communicate psychically with Bigfoot but for the most part, these monster hunters are about getting physical evidence. I can't quite understand why the UFO and Bigfoot groups have joint conferences. I guess it's the same interested audience and it can't be helped. Yet, the woo aspect of the paranormal believers just kills any credibility of the groups out there who think BF is a real animal.

But the serious UFO researchers don't put their belief down to the supernatural, either. As far as they're concerned, they're doing actual science, and the idea of extraterrestrial life is something which science generally accepts.

It's often reported in the popular science press that one of the "holy grails" of space exploration is the discovery of water elsewhere in the Solar System, because that would indicate a possible source of extraterrestrial life. UFOlogists appear to fancy the delusion that they're searching for ET just like NASA scientists. The fact that even not even microbial extraterrestrial life has ever actually been found does not bother the UFOlogists one whit, any more than the absence of bones, carcasses, scat, etc. bothers the bigfooters.

The pro-ET flying saucerers like to cite pop science concepts like the Drake Equation as support of their claims that ET visitation is scientifically valid. In so doing, they totally ignore the fact that Dr. Frank Drake originally proposed the equation purely as a thought experiment. The UFOlogists ignore the fact that the equation really stands to represent how little we actually know about the subject, how many variables are based totally on conjecture. Instead they portray it as a scientific validation of ET contact. UFOlogists also love to drop names like "Carl Sagan," "J. Allen Hynek", "Jacques Valee," "Stanton Friedman," "Stephen Hawking," etc. as proof that respected and accomplished scientists have spent time studying and talking about this stuff, therefore it must be legitimate science.

Both the cryprozoologists and the flying saucerers base all their allegations on anecdotes, conjecture, and spurious "evidence" like fake physical "artifacts" and easily-hoaxed, ambiguous photos and film/video footage. They both allege "cover-ups" on the part of scientists and/or government as an excuse for the lack of progress in their chosen field of study.

The main difference that I can see is that cryptozoophiles can at least point to the okapi and giant squid as proof that some legendary, extremely rare animals occasionally do get discovered from time to time. The UFOlogists, on the other hand, have nothing but tall stories, bogus evidence and pop culture references.


Originally Posted by idoubtit View Post
Finally, I'll make a point that Brian Regal and I both discovered independently in our simultaneous research into the people who search for BF. It was alluded to above: serious leisure. People are dissatisfied with the current job or state in life and feel they can contribute to something great by investigating the paranormal. So they spend their free time in a alternate "career" of researching these topics. It provides meaning and purpose to their lives. Again, the same can be said with volunteer skeptical activism.

Yeah, I guess we all ought to be so humble as to cop to that.

I often get a chuckle out of William Parcher's sig:

Quote:
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

The same also goes for the ET believers and UFO skeptics. It's funny because it's so true!
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Last edited by John Albert; 29th October 2011 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 29th October 2011, 07:41 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by clayflingythingy View Post
There is no wilderness in KY. The whole state, except for a few small parcels, was logged and big game animals extirpated by about the turn of the 20th century.
Lie.

There is plenty of big game in Kentucky, including: deer, elk, black bear, and others. Even a causal Google search easily demonstrates this.
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