Tintin Flight 714

JJM 777 · 29th October 2011, 01:59 PM

I have been reading Tintin albums to my son, as a substitute for fairy tales. Today was the turn of the Flight 714 album.

Everything as always, Tintin chasing evil criminals, until the last few pages feature a bit un-Tintinly things: a telepathy machine, hypnotism, then a UFO abducting Tintin and the fellows, with an explanation that they have been visiting earth for thousands of years and the ancient statues look like astronauts of the time.

I think I am gonna sell this one at jumble sale.

Twiler · 29th October 2011, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by JJM 777

I have been reading Tintin albums to my son, as a substitute for fairy tales. Today was the turn of the Flight 714 album.

Everything as always, Tintin chasing evil criminals, until the last few pages feature a bit un-Tintinly things: a telepathy machine, hypnotism, then a UFO abducting Tintin and the fellows, with an explanation that they have been visiting earth for thousands of years and the ancient statues look like astronauts of the time.

I think I am gonna sell this one at jumble sale.

This is hardly the only time fantastical things have happened in that series. Consider the levitating monk, the fakirs, and the incan voodoo.

geni · 29th October 2011, 02:08 PM

Tintin in Tibet features a yeti. The Seven Crystal Balls and Prisoners of the Sun feature a lost inca civilisation with various mystical abilities.

Flight 714 may be a little non tintin but then all of the last 3 tintin books are a bit experimental.

TubbaBlubba · 30th October 2011, 07:12 AM

Tintin in Chicago features some... Extraordinary climbing abilities.

Oh, and Temple of the Sun also has the absurd part where Tintin perfectly predicts the moment of an eclipse, to the second.

But I love Tintin, so so much.

Marduk · 30th October 2011, 07:18 AM

Tin Tin was imo always a little bit dodgy, something about a young lad hanging around with a moustachioed and bearded rough old sea captain didn't seem right to my young impressionable mind, so I went with Asterix instead. That was ok, because I thought that Obelix was a girl,
well he had pigtails

elgarak · 30th October 2011, 10:16 AM

Flight 714 is still one of my favorites in the series. Apart from the alien ending, its storytelling is perfect, the gags are fantastic (Haddock dumping the "sani-cola" and killing a potted tree still cracks me up), and the details in the drawings are masterful.

As far as the aliens are concerned, I don't have a problem with them per se. As has been noted, there was a lot of woo already in the series, and I do like some woo in my fiction. From time to time.

But I think the ending is not very satisfactory. Too much Deus Ex Machina, and too little details about the aliens considering how much pages are wasted on them. For instance, the whole page where the aliens pick up the baddies could have been skipped or shortened. After all, there is this huge wrap-up section at the end where some detail could have been told.

But overall, I still like the whole.

Morrigan · 30th October 2011, 12:37 PM

Ancient astronauts are great for fiction, what's the problem?

And as was pointed out, there's always been a few minor supernatural events throughout the whole series, so to have a problem with ancient astronauts but not with levitating monks or voodoo and the likes, seems inconsistent to me.

JJM 777 · 30th October 2011, 01:38 PM

I have no problem when a cartoon features a crazy professor who invents a truth serum or something, which is currently not known to be possible. A fictitious character is able to do something fictitious, the reader understands that he cannot contact this fictitious person to acquire his amazing services, because he does not exist.

The ending of Flight 714 crosses the line for me, because it makes claims about something very real: history, ancient cultures and their statues, and the existence and continuing activities of UFOs.

RobDegraves · 30th October 2011, 01:45 PM

Quote:

The ending of Flight 714 crosses the line for me, because it makes claims about something very real: history, ancient cultures and their statues, and the existence and continuing activities of UFOs

However, I'm pretty sure it's marketed as fiction. Don't be a Gradgrind.

I don't have a problem with fiction, it's a lot of fun. The problem starts when you can't separate fact from fiction. Then you are either nuts or a liar.

fuelair · 30th October 2011, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Marduk

Tin Tin was imo always a little bit dodgy, something about a young lad hanging around with a moustachioed and bearded rough old sea captain didn't seem right to my young impressionable mind, so I went with Asterix instead. That was ok, because I thought that Obelix was a girl,
well he had pigtails

"He" was Pippi Longstocking in drag.

Twiler · 30th October 2011, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by JJM 777

I have no problem when a cartoon features a crazy professor who invents a truth serum or something, which is currently not known to be possible. A fictitious character is able to do something fictitious, the reader understands that he cannot contact this fictitious person to acquire his amazing services, because he does not exist.

The ending of Flight 714 crosses the line for me, because it makes claims about something very real: history, ancient cultures and their statues, and the existence and continuing activities of UFOs.

Don't the other books imply that the incans had real magic and that tibetan monks can really levitate?

TubbaBlubba · 30th October 2011, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by JJM 777

The ending of Flight 714 crosses the line for me, because it makes claims about something very real: history, ancient cultures and their statues, and the existence and continuing activities of UFOs.

You mean like there being Indian tribes trying to kill people just outside Chicago?

Morrigan · 30th October 2011, 05:30 PM

Or Incas doing voodoo (lol), etc... it doesn't "claim" anything dude, it's just fiction like all the rest.

TubbaBlubba · 30th October 2011, 08:25 PM

It is fiction with that wonderful flavour of "Having never left Belgium".

Tomtomkent · 30th October 2011, 10:49 PM

Im a little worried this is the thing that would cross the line.

I love Tintin, but if I was going to consider anything inapropriate it would be the racism of Tintin in Africa. Or the (probably forced under Nazi occupation) all axis goodguys vs allied badguys in the Shooting Star (giant spiders are real right?) Or other political undertones.

fagin · 31st October 2011, 06:40 AM

Watched this last night - made for intersting viewing on the origins of Tintin.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b016xjqx

TubbaBlubba · 31st October 2011, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by Tomtomkent

I love Tintin, but if I was going to consider anything inapropriate it would be the racism of Tintin in Africa.

You mean Tintin in Congo? Hergé himself did not like it, and only wrote it because the king of Belgium asked him to after visiting Congo.

dogjones · 31st October 2011, 12:26 PM

No such person as Tintin. There is only Asterix.

KDLarsen · 1st November 2011, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba

Oh, and Temple of the Sun also has the absurd part where Tintin perfectly predicts the moment of an eclipse, to the second.

Chaos · 1st November 2011, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by dogjones

No such person as Tintin. There is only Asterix.

Those Belgians are crazy.

TubbaBlubba · 1st November 2011, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by KDLarsen

Yes, but he basically says, "OK, bye, Sun!" and "Okay, hi, Sun!" a few moments later. There's no way he could predict it with that accuracy without extremely accurate clocks and data.

kookbreaker · 1st November 2011, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba

Yes, but he basically says, "OK, bye, Sun!" and "Okay, hi, Sun!" a few moments later. There's no way he could predict it with that accuracy without extremely accurate clocks and data.

This is not new.

Tomtomkent · 2nd November 2011, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba

You mean Tintin in Congo? Hergé himself did not like it, and only wrote it because the king of Belgium asked him to after visiting Congo.

Yeah. And there was no way he could refuse to add the racist stereotypes and dubious treatment of the african characters as ignorant savages because...?

elgarak · 2nd November 2011, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba

You mean Tintin in Congo? Hergé himself did not like it, and only wrote it because the king of Belgium asked him to after visiting Congo.

Where did you hear that?

From what's on Wiki, his publisher/editor of the magazine suggested the Congo theme for educational/propaganda reasons. I don't see any reports that Hergé was not happy about this assignment at the time; he expressed regret and embarrassment later in life about it, but claimed it was a youthful error (which would suggest that when he wrote it, at age 24, he was not opposed to it).

TubbaBlubba · 2nd November 2011, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by elgarak

Where did you hear that?

From what's on Wiki, his publisher/editor of the magazine suggested the Congo theme for educational/propaganda reasons. I don't see any reports that Hergé was not happy about this assignment at the time; he expressed regret and embarrassment later in life about it, but claimed it was a youthful error (which would suggest that when he wrote it, at age 24, he was not opposed to it).

Swedish radio, I could be misrecalling. The "youthful mistake" explanation sounds more convincing.

Morrigan · 3rd November 2011, 02:58 AM

Hergé's racism was out of ignorance (and he mostly overcame it later), not malice. That's a lot more forgiveable IMO.

Originally Posted by Chaos

Those Belgians are crazy.

29th October 2011, 01:59 PM	#1
JJM 777 Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 3,175	Tintin Flight 714 I have been reading Tintin albums to my son, as a substitute for fairy tales. Today was the turn of the Flight 714 album. Everything as always, Tintin chasing evil criminals, until the last few pages feature a bit un-Tintinly things: a telepathy machine, hypnotism, then a UFO abducting Tintin and the fellows, with an explanation that they have been visiting earth for thousands of years and the ancient statues look like astronauts of the time. I think I am gonna sell this one at jumble sale.

29th October 2011, 02:03 PM	#2
Twiler Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,494	Originally Posted by JJM 777 I have been reading Tintin albums to my son, as a substitute for fairy tales. Today was the turn of the Flight 714 album. Everything as always, Tintin chasing evil criminals, until the last few pages feature a bit un-Tintinly things: a telepathy machine, hypnotism, then a UFO abducting Tintin and the fellows, with an explanation that they have been visiting earth for thousands of years and the ancient statues look like astronauts of the time. I think I am gonna sell this one at jumble sale. This is hardly the only time fantastical things have happened in that series. Consider the levitating monk, the fakirs, and the incan voodoo.
Twiler Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,494

30th October 2011, 07:12 AM	#4
TubbaBlubba Knave of the Dudes Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Communist Kingdom of Sweden Posts: 7,394	Tintin in Chicago features some... Extraordinary climbing abilities. Oh, and Temple of the Sun also has the absurd part where Tintin perfectly predicts the moment of an eclipse, to the second. But I love Tintin, so so much.
	__________________ Disagreement begets progress.

30th October 2011, 12:37 PM	#7
Morrigan Crone of War Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,867	Ancient astronauts are great for fiction, what's the problem? And as was pointed out, there's always been a few minor supernatural events throughout the whole series, so to have a problem with ancient astronauts but not with levitating monks or voodoo and the likes, seems inconsistent to me.
Morrigan Crone of War Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,867

30th October 2011, 01:45 PM	#9
RobDegraves Muse Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 787	Quote: The ending of Flight 714 crosses the line for me, because it makes claims about something very real: history, ancient cultures and their statues, and the existence and continuing activities of UFOs However, I'm pretty sure it's marketed as fiction. Don't be a Gradgrind. I don't have a problem with fiction, it's a lot of fun. The problem starts when you can't separate fact from fiction. Then you are either nuts or a liar.
RobDegraves Muse Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 787

29th October 2011, 02:08 PM	#3
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,555	Tintin in Tibet features a yeti. The Seven Crystal Balls and Prisoners of the Sun feature a lost inca civilisation with various mystical abilities. Flight 714 may be a little non tintin but then all of the last 3 tintin books are a bit experimental.

30th October 2011, 07:18 AM	#5
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Newbury, Berkshire Posts: 10,242	Tin Tin was imo always a little bit dodgy, something about a young lad hanging around with a moustachioed and bearded rough old sea captain didn't seem right to my young impressionable mind, so I went with Asterix instead. That was ok, because I thought that Obelix was a girl, well he had pigtails

30th October 2011, 10:16 AM	#6
elgarak Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: No matter where I go, there I am Posts: 1,858	Flight 714 is still one of my favorites in the series. Apart from the alien ending, its storytelling is perfect, the gags are fantastic (Haddock dumping the "sani-cola" and killing a potted tree still cracks me up), and the details in the drawings are masterful. As far as the aliens are concerned, I don't have a problem with them per se. As has been noted, there was a lot of woo already in the series, and I do like some woo in my fiction. From time to time. But I think the ending is not very satisfactory. Too much Deus Ex Machina, and too little details about the aliens considering how much pages are wasted on them. For instance, the whole page where the aliens pick up the baddies could have been skipped or shortened. After all, there is this huge wrap-up section at the end where some detail could have been told. But overall, I still like the whole.

30th October 2011, 01:38 PM	#8
JJM 777 Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 3,175	I have no problem when a cartoon features a crazy professor who invents a truth serum or something, which is currently not known to be possible. A fictitious character is able to do something fictitious, the reader understands that he cannot contact this fictitious person to acquire his amazing services, because he does not exist. The ending of Flight 714 crosses the line for me, because it makes claims about something very real: history, ancient cultures and their statues, and the existence and continuing activities of UFOs.

30th October 2011, 02:39 PM	#10
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,881	Originally Posted by Marduk Tin Tin was imo always a little bit dodgy, something about a young lad hanging around with a moustachioed and bearded rough old sea captain didn't seem right to my young impressionable mind, so I went with Asterix instead. That was ok, because I thought that Obelix was a girl, well he had pigtails "He" was Pippi Longstocking in drag.
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,881	__________________ There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!

30th October 2011, 02:52 PM	#11
Twiler Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,494	Originally Posted by JJM 777 I have no problem when a cartoon features a crazy professor who invents a truth serum or something, which is currently not known to be possible. A fictitious character is able to do something fictitious, the reader understands that he cannot contact this fictitious person to acquire his amazing services, because he does not exist. The ending of Flight 714 crosses the line for me, because it makes claims about something very real: history, ancient cultures and their statues, and the existence and continuing activities of UFOs. Don't the other books imply that the incans had real magic and that tibetan monks can really levitate?
Twiler Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,494

30th October 2011, 04:37 PM	#12
TubbaBlubba Knave of the Dudes Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Communist Kingdom of Sweden Posts: 7,394	Originally Posted by JJM 777 The ending of Flight 714 crosses the line for me, because it makes claims about something very real: history, ancient cultures and their statues, and the existence and continuing activities of UFOs. You mean like there being Indian tribes trying to kill people just outside Chicago?
	__________________ Disagreement begets progress.

30th October 2011, 05:30 PM	#13
Morrigan Crone of War Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,867	Or Incas doing voodoo (lol), etc... it doesn't "claim" anything dude, it's just fiction like all the rest.
Morrigan Crone of War Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,867

30th October 2011, 08:25 PM	#14
TubbaBlubba Knave of the Dudes Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Communist Kingdom of Sweden Posts: 7,394	It is fiction with that wonderful flavour of "Having never left Belgium".
	__________________ Disagreement begets progress.

30th October 2011, 10:49 PM	#15
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Kent, United Kingdom Posts: 5,190	Im a little worried this is the thing that would cross the line. I love Tintin, but if I was going to consider anything inapropriate it would be the racism of Tintin in Africa. Or the (probably forced under Nazi occupation) all axis goodguys vs allied badguys in the Shooting Star (giant spiders are real right?) Or other political undertones.
	__________________ @tomhodden No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

31st October 2011, 06:40 AM	#16
fagin Muse Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 901	Watched this last night - made for intersting viewing on the origins of Tintin. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b016xjqx
fagin Muse Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 901	__________________ Reverend of the Universal Life Church

31st October 2011, 08:42 AM	#17
TubbaBlubba Knave of the Dudes Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Communist Kingdom of Sweden Posts: 7,394	Originally Posted by Tomtomkent I love Tintin, but if I was going to consider anything inapropriate it would be the racism of Tintin in Africa. You mean Tintin in Congo? Hergé himself did not like it, and only wrote it because the king of Belgium asked him to after visiting Congo.
	__________________ Disagreement begets progress.

31st October 2011, 12:26 PM	#18
dogjones Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bermuda Posts: 1,281	No such person as Tintin. There is only Asterix.
	__________________ It's great being ideologically flexible.

1st November 2011, 07:38 AM	#19
KDLarsen Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Lord's Posts: 1,939	Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba Oh, and Temple of the Sun also has the absurd part where Tintin perfectly predicts the moment of an eclipse, to the second. I thought he picked that up from reading a scrap of newspaper he found in his cell?

1st November 2011, 03:47 PM	#20
Chaos TAM Chocolate Dispenser Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Heart of Old Europe Posts: 9,776	Originally Posted by dogjones No such person as Tintin. There is only Asterix. Those Belgians are crazy.
	__________________ Grand Master, Knights of the Question Mark Illusion: too good to be true - Reality: too true to be good Authors build castles in the sky, readers live in them and publishers collect the rent. - Maxim Gorki Folks enjoy a witch-hunt as long as they are on the blunt end of the pitchfork. - Suezoled You can't use logic to talk a man out of a position that he didn't use logic to get himself into - passed down by Nyarlathotep Kids these days are better than their parents since they constitute the newest edition, the beta version of our societies - Cleopatra YouÂ´ll have to accept the fact that some people are just plain nuts. - Paul C. Anagnostopolous

1st November 2011, 04:05 PM	#21
TubbaBlubba Knave of the Dudes Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Communist Kingdom of Sweden Posts: 7,394	Originally Posted by KDLarsen I thought he picked that up from reading a scrap of newspaper he found in his cell? Yes, but he basically says, "OK, bye, Sun!" and "Okay, hi, Sun!" a few moments later. There's no way he could predict it with that accuracy without extremely accurate clocks and data.
	__________________ Disagreement begets progress.

1st November 2011, 06:13 PM	#22
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,164	Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba Yes, but he basically says, "OK, bye, Sun!" and "Okay, hi, Sun!" a few moments later. There's no way he could predict it with that accuracy without extremely accurate clocks and data. This is not new.
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,164	__________________ Thanks for helping me win Best Children's Gifts and Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011 & 2012! Spectrum Scientifics - My store - Google it people!

2nd November 2011, 10:53 AM	#23
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Kent, United Kingdom Posts: 5,190	Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba You mean Tintin in Congo? Hergé himself did not like it, and only wrote it because the king of Belgium asked him to after visiting Congo. Yeah. And there was no way he could refuse to add the racist stereotypes and dubious treatment of the african characters as ignorant savages because...?
	__________________ @tomhodden No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

2nd November 2011, 11:47 AM	#24
elgarak Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: No matter where I go, there I am Posts: 1,858	Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba You mean Tintin in Congo? Hergé himself did not like it, and only wrote it because the king of Belgium asked him to after visiting Congo. Where did you hear that? From what's on Wiki, his publisher/editor of the magazine suggested the Congo theme for educational/propaganda reasons. I don't see any reports that Hergé was not happy about this assignment at the time; he expressed regret and embarrassment later in life about it, but claimed it was a youthful error (which would suggest that when he wrote it, at age 24, he was not opposed to it).

2nd November 2011, 12:04 PM	#25
TubbaBlubba Knave of the Dudes Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Communist Kingdom of Sweden Posts: 7,394	Originally Posted by elgarak Where did you hear that? From what's on Wiki, his publisher/editor of the magazine suggested the Congo theme for educational/propaganda reasons. I don't see any reports that Hergé was not happy about this assignment at the time; he expressed regret and embarrassment later in life about it, but claimed it was a youthful error (which would suggest that when he wrote it, at age 24, he was not opposed to it). Swedish radio, I could be misrecalling. The "youthful mistake" explanation sounds more convincing.
	__________________ Disagreement begets progress.

3rd November 2011, 02:58 AM	#26
Morrigan Crone of War Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,867	Hergé's racism was out of ignorance (and he mostly overcame it later), not malice. That's a lot more forgiveable IMO. Originally Posted by Chaos Those Belgians are crazy.
Morrigan Crone of War Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,867	Last edited by Morrigan; 3rd November 2011 at 03:01 AM.