Non-Denominational Denominational Poll

28th April 2004, 10:42 PM

As another silly attempt to prove nothing in particular, let's see if we can break down some genericised points for a poll.

Check each box that applies.

Explanations/longer versions:
1. Do you believe there are any gods?
2. Do you believe that gods have any direct influence on your life, or those of others?
3. Do you think the universe came into being 'for a reason' or because someone/something with intelligence made it?
4. Do you believe that whether the universe 'just happened like that' or whether it was made is important to you?
5. Do you believe life was engineered/made, instead of a natural/evolutionary process?
6. Do you believe that life is in its self important?
7. Do you believe that there is continued existance for you, some people, everyone, etc. after death?
8. Do you believe this afterlife has some importance relevant to this life?
9. Do you believe you can't possibly be mistaken in any of these beliefs?
10. Are you a member of an organization (with other followers) based on some of these beliefs (or lack of beliefs)?

28th April 2004, 10:49 PM

Personally, I'm an apathetic agnostic, so honestly I don't believe in any of the above, but belong to an organization which doesn't believe in anything, either.

scribble · 28th April 2004, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by evildave
Personally, I'm an apathetic agnostic, so honestly I don't believe in any of the above, but belong to an organization which doesn't believe in anything, either.

Being the second voter put me in the unique position to know that someone voted for "I belong toa church..." without haveing checked ANY of the above. I wondered what kind of a freak that might be and planned on writing something clever.

Thanks for saving me the pain of trying to be clever. Freak.

Abdul Alhazred · 28th April 2004, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scribble

Being the second voter put me in the unique position to know that someone voted for "I belong toa church..." without haveing checked ANY of the above. I wondered what kind of a freak that might be and planned on writing something clever.

Thanks for saving me the pain of trying to be clever. Freak.

Never mind the theological stuff, what church doesn't think life is important?

epepke · 28th April 2004, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by evildave
As another silly attempt to prove nothing in particular, let's see if we can break down some genericised points for a poll.

Check each box that applies.

Explanations/longer versions:
1. Do you believe there are any gods?

I'm the only one, unless you count Frank Zappa, but he's dead.

Quote:

2. Do you believe that gods have any direct influence on your life, or those of others?

Well, duh!

Quote:

3. Do you think the universe came into being 'for a reason' or because someone/something with intelligence made it?

Neither. It was made by someone who is obviously pretty damn stupid.

Quote:

4. Do you believe that whether the universe 'just happened like that' or whether it was made is important to you?

Only on Tuesdays.

Quote:

5. Do you believe life was engineered/made, instead of a natural/evolutionary process?

I'd fire the engineer.

Quote:

6. Do you believe that life is in its self important?

It's what we got.

Quote:

7. Do you believe that there is continued existance for you, some people, everyone, etc. after death?

Zaphod Beeblebrox: Come on, Marvin, you've got a whole new life in front of you!
Marvin: Oh, no! Not another one!

Quote:

8. Do you believe this afterlife has some importance relevant to this life?

It keeps John Edwards off the streets.

Quote:

9. Do you believe you can't possibly be mistaken in any of these beliefs?

I am absolutely certain of the fact that any of my beliefs may be mistaken.

Quote:

10. Are you a member of an organization (with other followers) based on some of these beliefs (or lack of beliefs)?

Come on! I have a hard enough time finding groupies.

BroodingSkill · 29th April 2004, 12:08 AM

Since I can't vote I'll post it:

the origin of the universe is important( somewhat, but what does it have to do with the price of cheese)

Life is important!

that's about it.

Marvel Frozen · 29th April 2004, 12:51 AM

I feel cheated, it won't let me vote without selecting at least one option.

29th April 2004, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by scribble

Being the second voter put me in the unique position to know that someone voted for "I belong toa church..." without haveing checked ANY of the above. I wondered what kind of a freak that might be and planned on writing something clever.

Thanks for saving me the pain of trying to be clever. Freak.

You're welcome!

I am a reverend of the Universal Church Triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic. I don't know, and I don't care. Words to live by. You can be one, too.

Why life has no value....

Life is the only important thing there is that I know of.

Is life so important that it couldn't be exterminated? (snaps fingers) Just like that? OK, it would take a certain amount of time to eradicate all the life on Earth, even if the planet were blown into pieces, and maybe some bacteria might survive even that, but as it stands now, humans probably won't.

Life is important to that which lives, but try to explain it to a hunk of iron that's been orbiting the sun for a billion years that just happens to intersect the Earth's orbit one day. Then try to explain it to someone who thinks there are more important priorities than space research.

How do you place value on life? Add value to it? Spreading it to more habitats so that it can grow there would be one way. There is lots of room and lots of resources in space. The moon alone has as much surface area as North and South America combined.

We have the scientific basis and technology to do it. We just don't. Therefore, as measured by our apathy toward ultimate survival, the human race does not value life, and me being a member of the human race, am not valued by it, either.

I value my own life, but no amount of my valuing my own life will make it more valuable than what's in my wallet to some junky with a gun. It's worth even less to another whole class of morons on a "mission from god" to "kill all the heretics".

Wudang · 29th April 2004, 04:44 AM

Me also, evildave. And the proud holder of a Masters in Agnostic Studies. I now slightly regret not getting the Masters in Ignorance as I could tell people I was going to write them up for my Doctorate.

triadboy · 29th April 2004, 06:54 AM

I selected "Life is Important", because if it isn't important, then why am I in this cube?

roger · 29th April 2004, 07:21 AM

I don't understand this poll, I can't vote for any of the options.

It's like a poll that asks whether i have cedar or asphalt shingles, and I actually have palm fronds on my roof.

29th April 2004, 01:55 PM

Well, bugger all. You know it would take a series of ten polls to have questions that anybody could ask.

If it doesn't apply, leave 'em blank. If none of them apply, complain and we know there's another person who couldn't click anything. Needed an 11th 'planet X' option. Or you could go join the Church Triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic and you can click 'I belong to a church/organization...' that doesn't believe in any of that junk.

There is one or more god(s). 3 4.62%
God(s) is/are important. 5 7.69%
The universe was deliberate. 3 4.62%
The origin of the universe is important. 10 15.38%
Life was deliberate. 3 4.62%
Life is important. 20 30.77%
Afterlife/reincarnation happens. 4 6.15%
Afterlife/reincarnation is important. 5 7.69%
I am certainly right. 6 9.23%
I belong to a church/organization based on above beliefs. 6 9.23%
Total: 24 votes 100%

All in all, the percentages on the right column are useless. I think they tally up all the votes and show what percentage of all votes were that one.

The 'bottom line' would be votes of a given category over 24 votes (at this moment).

I'm interested in how many people believe the ultimate origin of the universe is important. 11/27 (Including BroodingSkill, Marvel, Roger). That seems like a very academic question to me. You never know what you'll discover in the search for the answer, but you never know what you'll find if you start digging a hole at some arbitary location.

Predictably 21/27 people (Including BroodingSkill, Marvel, Roger) have posted that life is important. It would be 22/27, but the ultimate reason why I didn't check it was I forgot to, and the thing won't let you change any votes once they're cast. Oh well.

In the absense of any evidence for certain things (or perhaps they have compelling evidence), 1/3 of the people are certain that their assumptions are right. There are/aren't gods, the universe was/wasn't designed, and life was/wasn't designed, and there is/isn't an afterlife, with relative importances attached. That's already 1/16 chance that four binary conclusions are right. 1/256 if we count the 'importance' stuff. While there is compelling evidence that life evolved, it's not quite conclusive enough to stop people from believing a god or aliens or some such thing showed up one day and pointed the life-o-matic at some clay, and "bingo" there's animals and people and stuff. Then again, even with a time machine and a video camera to give us absolute proof, you couldn't convince most of these people of anything as prosaic as "***** just happens".

Yahweh · 29th April 2004, 03:47 PM

I am a god, under favorable conditions I am important.

Kopji · 29th April 2004, 03:50 PM

I am a little curious why only three people felt there was a god but five felt a god was important.

rebecca · 29th April 2004, 04:15 PM

Quote:

I am a little curious why only three people felt there was a god but five felt a god was important

You can be unsure of whether or not something exists and still think it's important to find out about it. For instance, I don't believe in life, but it's pretty much all I've got anyway, so darn it, I clicked "important."

Ooh, my first post, and it's almost completely nonsensical! Hello, all.

scribble · 29th April 2004, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kopji
I am a little curious why only three people felt there was a god but five felt a god was important.

I don't think there's a God - but if there is, it's sure important. And personally, I'd sure like there to be one. So it's important.

I also didn't click "I'm definately right." So ... maybe I'm wrong about that.

Yahweh · 29th April 2004, 04:20 PM

Welcome to the board, rebecca

Yahweh · 29th April 2004, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scribble
I also didn't click "I'm definately right." So ... maybe I'm wrong about that.

I also did not click "I'm definately right". I think such a belief is rendered meaningless when the atheist believes he is undeniably correct and the Christian holds the same sentiments of his own beliefs. Who knows, maybe they are both wrong...

30th April 2004, 01:04 AM

Yes, for instance, there could be a 'god', but it doesn't remotely match anyone's expectations for what it is.

Would I be right. believing in the Christian 'god's? No.

Would I be right. believing in the Islamic 'god'? No.

Would I be right. believing in the Hindu 'god's? No.

Would I be right. believing in 'god-like aliens'? No.

Would I be right, believing in "NO" god? No.

"I don't know, and I don't care", it works for me.

Not for you? I don't care. Go believe any old thing you like. Whatever makes you happy. Just don't insist that I have to believe what you do.

Abdul Alhazred · 30th April 2004, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by evildave
Yes, for instance, there could be a 'god', but it doesn't remotely match anyone's expectations for what it is.

Would I be right. believing in the Christian 'god's? No.

Would I be right. believing in the Islamic 'god'? No.

Would I be right. believing in the Hindu 'god's? No.

Would I be right. believing in 'god-like aliens'? No.

Would I be right, believing in "NO" god? No.

"I don't know, and I don't care", it works for me.

Not for you? I don't care. Go believe any old thing you like. Whatever makes you happy. Just don't insist that I have to believe what you do.

OK, no chosen people, no one died for my sins, no angel whispered into any prophet's ear.

But did a uniquely self-existent being will the universe into existence? I say no, but I admit I have no evidence. Does anyone on the other side have any evidence? Again I say no.

And I take the position that the burden of proof is not on my position.

EdipisReks · 30th April 2004, 07:32 AM

i voted that life and the origin of the universe are important. life, because there isn't a whole hell of a lot to do without it, and the origin of the universe because i believe that knowledge should be ever expanded. i'm basically a strong atheist, and a member of the EAC, the CEA, and the ECA, but not the CEA.

Swishy McJackass · 30th April 2004, 07:32 AM

I voted "Life is Important." Without life, I wouldn't be here. I would be, well, non-existant. Like when I die.

I also voted "I'm definitely right," but I think that's just a reflex from the many arguements between my wife and I about who's right.

roger · 30th April 2004, 07:52 AM

Since I was one of the people who felt they couldn't check any of the answers, let me explain why.

Questions of objective existence don't pose a problem. I've seen no evidence for gods, so harbor no belief in their existence.

The question "Do you believe that life is in its self important" impossible for me to answer, or to assign any meaning to. If I interpret it as "do you value your own life" my answer is yes, but that doesn't seem to be the point of the question, since it seems to be weeding out depressives rather than religious thought. Besides, the "in its self" phrase seems to be asking if there is an _objective_ value, importance, that life has. Given that "important" is a fuzzy, human invented idea, not to mention relative, I'd have to go with no. Is my existence important to my family and friends? yes. To my kitchen table? no. To the well being of this world or universe? Again, no.

Jagged Blossom · 30th April 2004, 09:50 PM

I am new here and just really need something to stimulate my brain. I feel stifled in my new town. Hopefully these boards will give me a boost.

To answer the questions, my response is "no" to every question. Though it's very difficult for me to admit these things to myself on a consistant basis.

I have spent the last year of my life battling my own inclination towards rejecting everything I have known from birth until now.

When I feel vulnerable, I immediately revert to thoughts of a god holding my hand, hearing my prayers, and preparing me for some greater challenge ahead. However, the logical side of me knows that gods/religion/afterlife is nothing more than a crutch we all create to help us get through life without being so afraid that we pee our pants everytime something goes wrong.

It SUX to admit that our lives are not really important in the scheme of things. It SUX to admit that once we die, it will all be over. It SUX to admit we are all we have.

Yet, rationally, I can't refute laws of human behavior that point toward people's need to explain what they can't comprehend...in this case, through complex religious scenarios.

I don't know, I am just really struggling to find myself right now. It is more difficult than I ever imagined to try and break free from my former self. I still walk the line between complacent, don't ask any questions Christian and screw them all, how can they be so blind atheiest... I hope to find a comfortable balance soon.

1st May 2004, 01:14 AM

Toughen up a bit, Jagged Blossom. Sure, you're in a new environment, but confronting Christians directly will only get you a black eye.

In general, I don't open a discussion of religion with people I work with, or interact with on a daily business, because I never know who'll become "offended" by any trivial little thing I say. I've pissed off friends who wouldn't talk to me for a year over seemingly tiny things.

In general, if you can't discuss dirty/abnormal sex with someone, don't discuss religion.

At least on the web, nobody will try to beat your head in with whatever is close at hand for not believing as they sincerely do, that cosmic pink gophers made people 30 hours ago, and you were made with all those memories of a past life, and if you aren't converted within 48 hours, you'll disappear into the gopher 'abyss', along with them for not doing their job of turning you into a psycho like them.

I personally think of religion like a disorder, but I try not to confront the afflicted with their malady, as it would be akin to telling a leper how they should look. People either seek a cure for their malady, or you leave them alone. Unless, of course, they seek to "cure" you of your "malady" of not being exactly like them.

triadboy · 1st May 2004, 07:21 AM

Welcome JB.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jagged Blossom
To answer the questions, my response is "no" to every question. Though it's very difficult for me to admit these things to myself on a consistant basis.

I also felt a 'no' was appropriate for every question, but (for some reason) thought I had to punch one of them. So I punched "Life is Important" - because life tends to flourish. (According to Dawkins - with a mind of its own)

Quote:

I have spent the last year of my life battling my own inclination towards rejecting everything I have known from birth until now.

When it happens, it won't be a bad thing. When it happened to me, I was thunderstruck! All that crap I had learned from the very beginning just fell away. The guilt, fear, and apprehension left. There is no avenging god watching you. There is no hell awaiting you. YOU control life.

Quote:

However, the logical side of me knows that gods/religion/afterlife is nothing more than a crutch we all create to help us get through life without being so afraid that we pee our pants everytime something goes wrong.

You have a great start. I don't know how old you are, but it took me 35 years to realize that. :-)

Quote:

It SUX to admit that our lives are not really important in the scheme of things. It SUX to admit that once we die, it will all be over. It SUX to admit we are all we have.

Our lives are not important if you examine it in context with the vast universe, however, our lives on earth are important to each of us in individual ways.

geni · 1st May 2004, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by evildave
Toughen up a bit, Jagged Blossom. Sure, you're in a new environment, but confronting Christians directly will only get you a black eye.

Nice generalisation there.

1st May 2004, 08:52 AM

Thanks. Though a metaphorical 'black eye' can be as good as a bruise.

For instance, get that old gossip mill over something as tiny as "he/she isn't like one us" running full time when you're new and relatively friendless, and you could find almost any place is a very bleak place to live.

geni · 1st May 2004, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by evildave
Thanks. Though a metaphorical 'black eye' can be as good as a bruise.

For instance, get that old gossip mill over something as tiny as "he/she isn't like one us" running full time when you're new and relatively friendless, and you could find almost any place is a very bleak place to live.

So? You are still genrelising.

Jagged Blossom · 1st May 2004, 09:07 AM

Aww, thanks for the welcome ya'll. As far as confronting Christians head on, I never shy away from sharing my beliefs system but I believe that has to be tailored to the individual.

For instance, communicating with each one of you in the precise same manner probably wouldn't yield equal results. I believe that communication illustrates, better than any other indicator, the level of respect between humans.

I try NEVER to tell anyone else their beliefs are wrong, because I honestly do not feel that way. I know what I believe but I have no need to persuade others to feel similarly. Unless I am dating them, and then, they should follow suit to keep me happy.

he he he

I guess I just don't want to get in the middle of any drama on the boards. I will do my best to ignore any sort of disruptive attacks on me or anyone else. I am here to have an outlet for expressing things I really can't express in other places. I am here to learn from people who are, no doubt, more highly educated and well read than myself. Most importantly, I am here to get away from stupid people...so if I see them on the boards, I will just do my best to run the other way!

Again, thanks a ton for the responses. I look forward to reading what you guys have to say, bouncing ideas off of you, and hopefully getting some feedback that stimulates thought processes that lead to a thousand epiphanies!

Have a great Saturday...it's rainy here. yuck!

triadboy · 1st May 2004, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jagged Blossom
I am here to have an outlet for expressing things I really can't express in other places.

Same here. My wife is an atheist too, but she doesn't like to talk about the intricacies and evidences that point to that belief. She's not appalled that - in this time of scientific explosion - the year 2004 AD - there are people who would rather believe the science of the year 2004 BC! That boggles my mind!

Quote:

I am here to learn from people who are, no doubt, more highly educated and well read than myself.

All you have to do is read evildave, Yahweh, Atlas to see there are some fine philosophical and educational resident voices here.

Quote:

Have a great Saturday...it's rainy here. yuck!

80, Sunny, very slight breeze, no humidity here. It's like I live in Paradise. As you enter Tucson, there are two cherubs guarding the road.

Which brings up Eden. Of course, Eden does not represent an historical place and time. So what is it? I'm reading Joseph Campbell Thou Art That right now and he says:

Quote:

God's idea, in this story, was to get Adam and Eve out of that Garden. What was it about the Garden? It was a place of oneness, of unity, of no divisions in the nature of people and things. When you eat the Fruit of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, however, you know about pairs of opposites, which include not only good and evil, light and dark, right and wrong, but male and female, and God and Man as well.

I'm a big Campbell fan.

Jagged Blossom · 1st May 2004, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by triadboy

She's not appalled that - in this time of scientific explosion - the year 2004 AD - there are people who would rather believe the science of the year 2004 BC! That boggles my mind!

Which brings up Eden. Of course, Eden does not represent an historical place and time. So what is it?

So glad your weather is so pleasant.

We need the rain, so I suppose I am ok with a bit of wetness on the ground.

As for the evidences pointing toward athiesm, to be quite honest, I don't get overly enthusiastic about it either. Perhaps, that will come in time. For now, I am content realizing that logically there is no explaination for religion other than people's natural tendancy to want to explain the unexplained.

If there were similar logical evidence to point me in another direction, I would feel the need to research more heavily. I just don't see it, as of yet. There is still a tinge of guilt that runs through me everytime I acknowledge my rationalized view of life. Let's hope, like ya'll said, that it will disappear in time.

As for Eden. Eden, in my opinion, is what an individual creates as the epitome of their desire. I suppose the definition of Eden could shift as someone matures in their life. I would imagine Eden to be transferrable from one religion to the next...similar to Heaven...but more tangible. Who knows though? I certainly am in no position to make an educated statement concerning the definition of Eden.

Take care, and enjoy your weekend!

1st May 2004, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by geni

So? You are still genrelising.

Without knowing every detail of this person's situation, all I really can do is generalise.

My specific, individual, personal experience says that people who don't know me usually take it very, very badly when my lack of religion comes up.

Now then, in a new situation this may be only 50~60% of the people who you might meet. However, once the gossip starts, you're "sacrificing puppies" within the week, and the other 40~50% of the people will want nothing to do with you.

Generalising, but the more people who are involved, the more predictably negative the social outcome is. Make good friends BEFORE you let out the fact that you don't believe in their most cherished fairy tales, or you will generally get a larger portion of misery.

fishbob · 4th May 2004, 12:52 AM

Quote:

I also didn't click "I'm definately right." So ... maybe I'm wrong about that.

I only checked number 9 - "I'm definitely right". I am absolutely certain that none of the other selections apply.

Riddick · 4th May 2004, 06:32 PM

What I find shocking is that you guys are happy with this limited life.

Can't you guys think bigger than the here and now?

Let's say you're a lucky one and live to 105years. I mean Jesus, you were supposed to live forever. But nooooo, you're happy with 105. "Give me 105, I'm Good." That's all I need. Sheesh, you guys are an easy bunch to satisfy. Of course, some of you are happy with 72 years. Mindboggling.

I guess if you can't think in terms of an afterlife, it's not that big a deal to you?

It's like you have the title to a brand new Ferrari but instead receive an Accord. Oh yeah, I'm happy!

Lord Emsworth · 4th May 2004, 06:48 PM

I sometimes wish I had a spacecraft, like the "Heart of Gold."

I don't understand why you all stick to cars.

roger · 4th May 2004, 06:55 PM

Last time I checked, my desire for how I want the world to be does not affect how it really is.

But, let's check again, and see.....

Nope, reality didn't change due to my wishes.

We really need a shooting fish in a barrel smiley around here.

Beleth · 4th May 2004, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Riddick
What I find shocking is that you guys are happy with this limited life.

Who said we're happy with it?

Quote:

Can't you guys think bigger than the here and now?

Yes. I can imagine lush, green fields, with birds chirping and squirrels eating out of my hand, and huge purple dragons that pick me up and whisk me off to whichever of my enchanted castles I want to take tea in today. I can think of lots of bigger things. What of it?

Quote:

Let's say you're a lucky one and live to 105years. I mean Jesus, you were supposed to live forever.

Nothing lives forever. Therefore your statement that I was supposed to live forever fails on two counts.

Quote:

It's like you have the title to a brand new Ferrari but instead receive an Accord. Oh yeah, I'm happy!

I'd rather have an actual Accord than a piece of paper that says I have a Ferrari but no Ferrari, yep.

Beleth · 4th May 2004, 07:00 PM

And oh yeah - I selected the first six choices but none of the others. That's 'cause I'm a Deist.

5th May 2004, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Riddick
What I find shocking is that you guys are happy with this limited life.

Can't you guys think bigger than the here and now?

Yes, I look to a future when fundies are a universally recognized as a laughable and impotent minority, so more people could be in on the joke.

Quote:

Let's say you're a lucky one and live to 105years. I mean Jesus, you were supposed to live forever. But nooooo, you're happy with 105. "Give me 105, I'm Good." That's all I need. Sheesh, you guys are an easy bunch to satisfy. Of course, some of you are happy with 72 years. Mindboggling.

72? 105? Way better than a lot of people get. I don't need to win the lottery. Just have enough.

Don't get me wrong, it would be nice to win the lottery, but all the wishful thinking in the world will not automatically make me win, even if I play the game religiously. I could luck out, but I could get struck by lightning 15 times and bit by a shark, which would be on a par with winning the lottery, and BTW, still excellent odds compared to your funny beliefs.

It's a sucker bet, and unfortunately it routinely fails to amaze me that people fall for it.

"You're guaranteed to have either won a million dollars, a fabulous new car, or a matching Bic pen and pencil set!" Send us $1000 for your prize registration fees and we'll get back to you REAL SOON!

Which one do you think the marks believe they've won?

Of course, the lottery you're talking about has never provably paid anyone. All I have is your word for it, and let's just say I have sincere doubts that you are playing by the rules you would claim are necessary to be eligible for this phantom prize.

So, what sort of idiots would play that game? I suppose if it's entertaining enough, it would be worth it, but honestly religion has always been a complete bore.

I have better things to spend my time and money on.

Quote:

I guess if you can't think in terms of an afterlife, it's not that big a deal to you?

It's like you have the title to a brand new Ferrari but instead receive an Accord. Oh yeah, I'm happy!

A bird in hand... oh, but I see you've already dropped yours to chase through the bushes. I'll hold the flashlight, and try not to laugh out loud to startle the birdies you're chasing, shall I?

Honda Ranks as the Highest Non-Luxury Brand in J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study The 4-door Accord Sedan sounds like a very nice and practical car, really.

Besides, the Accord would get way, way better gas mileage, cost next to nothing to insure, seat five, not attract tickets, and have space in the back for stuff. Not to mention any service and upkeep it would need would be as nothing compared fo Ferrari service and parts.

I'd merrily sell you the papers right away for the phantom Ferrari you'll get to drive "forever", "after you die", and then buy the Accord and a house with a nice garage to park it in, and be happier in the long run. Oh wait, I already have a house, garage and adequately nice car. So, I suppose I could pay the mortgage down to zero and have an extra $60,000 to spend on a nice vacation, or a business start-up. Tough choice.

Here are the going rates for Ferraris.

Maybe I'll have to set up a PayPal account and an E*Bay auction for this? I hear there are billions more like you who'll totally invest in things, sight unseen, based on hear-say?

You'll get an everlasting Ferrari in Heaven after you die, and all you have to do is send me $1000 to register the cosmic paperwork with the appropriate deity for you! (Or a free pen and pencil set.) Money back guarantee if you are not satisfied! How can you lose? Just come back to life and ask for it back. Just make your check payable to the C.A.S.H. (Certainty Afterlife Savings Heritage).

Appeal to greed: It works so often it's really a tragic commentary on the human condition.

28th April 2004, 10:42 PM	#1
evildave Guest Posts: n/a	Non-Denominational Denominational Poll As another silly attempt to prove nothing in particular, let's see if we can break down some genericised points for a poll. Check each box that applies. Explanations/longer versions: 1. Do you believe there are any gods? 2. Do you believe that gods have any direct influence on your life, or those of others? 3. Do you think the universe came into being 'for a reason' or because someone/something with intelligence made it? 4. Do you believe that whether the universe 'just happened like that' or whether it was made is important to you? 5. Do you believe life was engineered/made, instead of a natural/evolutionary process? 6. Do you believe that life is in its self important? 7. Do you believe that there is continued existance for you, some people, everyone, etc. after death? 8. Do you believe this afterlife has some importance relevant to this life? 9. Do you believe you can't possibly be mistaken in any of these beliefs? 10. Are you a member of an organization (with other followers) based on some of these beliefs (or lack of beliefs)?
evildave Guest Posts: n/a

28th April 2004, 10:49 PM	#2
evildave Guest Posts: n/a	Personally, I'm an apathetic agnostic, so honestly I don't believe in any of the above, but belong to an organization which doesn't believe in anything, either.
evildave Guest Posts: n/a

28th April 2004, 11:09 PM	#3
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	Quote: Originally posted by evildave Personally, I'm an apathetic agnostic, so honestly I don't believe in any of the above, but belong to an organization which doesn't believe in anything, either. Being the second voter put me in the unique position to know that someone voted for "I belong toa church..." without haveing checked ANY of the above. I wondered what kind of a freak that might be and planned on writing something clever. Thanks for saving me the pain of trying to be clever. Freak.
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	__________________ "Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson "I was thinking about painting my house, but I was worried about how well the latex paint we bought would bond to the existing siding. So I got on the Interweb and searched for latex bondage."

28th April 2004, 11:13 PM	#4
Abdul Alhazred Yes, that one. Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 5,474	Quote: Originally posted by scribble Being the second voter put me in the unique position to know that someone voted for "I belong toa church..." without haveing checked ANY of the above. I wondered what kind of a freak that might be and planned on writing something clever. Thanks for saving me the pain of trying to be clever. Freak. Never mind the theological stuff, what church doesn't think life is important?
	__________________ The lack of a rational explanation is not evidence for an irrational explanation.

28th April 2004, 11:38 PM	#5
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950	Re: Non-Denominational Denominational Poll Quote: Originally posted by evildave As another silly attempt to prove nothing in particular, let's see if we can break down some genericised points for a poll. Check each box that applies. Explanations/longer versions: 1. Do you believe there are any gods? I'm the only one, unless you count Frank Zappa, but he's dead. Quote: 2. Do you believe that gods have any direct influence on your life, or those of others? Well, duh! Quote: 3. Do you think the universe came into being 'for a reason' or because someone/something with intelligence made it? Neither. It was made by someone who is obviously pretty damn stupid. Quote: 4. Do you believe that whether the universe 'just happened like that' or whether it was made is important to you? Only on Tuesdays. Quote: 5. Do you believe life was engineered/made, instead of a natural/evolutionary process? I'd fire the engineer. Quote: 6. Do you believe that life is in its self important? It's what we got. Quote: 7. Do you believe that there is continued existance for you, some people, everyone, etc. after death? Zaphod Beeblebrox: Come on, Marvin, you've got a whole new life in front of you! Marvin: Oh, no! Not another one! Quote: 8. Do you believe this afterlife has some importance relevant to this life? It keeps John Edwards off the streets. Quote: 9. Do you believe you can't possibly be mistaken in any of these beliefs? I am absolutely certain of the fact that any of my beliefs may be mistaken. Quote: 10. Are you a member of an organization (with other followers) based on some of these beliefs (or lack of beliefs)? Come on! I have a hard enough time finding groupies.
epepke Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 7,950

29th April 2004, 12:08 AM	#6
BroodingSkill Thinker Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: the Good ole 559 Posts: 178	Since I can't vote I'll post it: the origin of the universe is important( somewhat, but what does it have to do with the price of cheese) Life is important! that's about it.
	__________________ Extraordinay claims...blah blah...extraordinary evidence.

29th April 2004, 12:51 AM	#7
Marvel Frozen Thinker Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 237	I feel cheated, it won't let me vote without selecting at least one option.
Marvel Frozen Thinker Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 237	__________________ "Holy macaroni! I can't believe I'm seeing bigfoot. He's in focus! Oh, I've waited my entire life for this moment!"

29th April 2004, 02:12 AM	#8
evildave Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by scribble Being the second voter put me in the unique position to know that someone voted for "I belong toa church..." without haveing checked ANY of the above. I wondered what kind of a freak that might be and planned on writing something clever. Thanks for saving me the pain of trying to be clever. Freak. You're welcome! I am a reverend of the Universal Church Triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic. I don't know, and I don't care. Words to live by. You can be one, too. Why life has no value.... Life is the only important thing there is that I know of. Is life so important that it couldn't be exterminated? (snaps fingers) Just like that? OK, it would take a certain amount of time to eradicate all the life on Earth, even if the planet were blown into pieces, and maybe some bacteria might survive even that, but as it stands now, humans probably won't. Life is important to that which lives, but try to explain it to a hunk of iron that's been orbiting the sun for a billion years that just happens to intersect the Earth's orbit one day. Then try to explain it to someone who thinks there are more important priorities than space research. How do you place value on life? Add value to it? Spreading it to more habitats so that it can grow there would be one way. There is lots of room and lots of resources in space. The moon alone has as much surface area as North and South America combined. We have the scientific basis and technology to do it. We just don't. Therefore, as measured by our apathy toward ultimate survival, the human race does not value life, and me being a member of the human race, am not valued by it, either. I value my own life, but no amount of my valuing my own life will make it more valuable than what's in my wallet to some junky with a gun. It's worth even less to another whole class of morons on a "mission from god" to "kill all the heretics".
evildave Guest Posts: n/a

29th April 2004, 04:44 AM	#9
Wudang BOFH Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sheffield Posts: 8,242	Me also, evildave. And the proud holder of a Masters in Agnostic Studies. I now slightly regret not getting the Masters in Ignorance as I could tell people I was going to write them up for my Doctorate.
	__________________ Aphorism: Subjects most likely to be declared inappropriate for humor are the ones most in need of it. -epepke

29th April 2004, 06:54 AM	#10
triadboy Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 2,556	I selected "Life is Important", because if it isn't important, then why am I in this cube?

29th April 2004, 07:21 AM	#11
roger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA Posts: 11,021	I don't understand this poll, I can't vote for any of the options. It's like a poll that asks whether i have cedar or asphalt shingles, and I actually have palm fronds on my roof.

29th April 2004, 01:55 PM	#12
evildave Guest Posts: n/a	Well, bugger all. You know it would take a series of ten polls to have questions that anybody could ask. If it doesn't apply, leave 'em blank. If none of them apply, complain and we know there's another person who couldn't click anything. Needed an 11th 'planet X' option. Or you could go join the Church Triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic and you can click 'I belong to a church/organization...' that doesn't believe in any of that junk. There is one or more god(s). 3 4.62% God(s) is/are important. 5 7.69% The universe was deliberate. 3 4.62% The origin of the universe is important. 10 15.38% Life was deliberate. 3 4.62% Life is important. 20 30.77% Afterlife/reincarnation happens. 4 6.15% Afterlife/reincarnation is important. 5 7.69% I am certainly right. 6 9.23% I belong to a church/organization based on above beliefs. 6 9.23% Total: 24 votes 100% All in all, the percentages on the right column are useless. I think they tally up all the votes and show what percentage of all votes were that one. The 'bottom line' would be votes of a given category over 24 votes (at this moment). I'm interested in how many people believe the ultimate origin of the universe is important. 11/27 (Including BroodingSkill, Marvel, Roger). That seems like a very academic question to me. You never know what you'll discover in the search for the answer, but you never know what you'll find if you start digging a hole at some arbitary location. Predictably 21/27 people (Including BroodingSkill, Marvel, Roger) have posted that life is important. It would be 22/27, but the ultimate reason why I didn't check it was I forgot to, and the thing won't let you change any votes once they're cast. Oh well. In the absense of any evidence for certain things (or perhaps they have compelling evidence), 1/3 of the people are certain that their assumptions are right. There are/aren't gods, the universe was/wasn't designed, and life was/wasn't designed, and there is/isn't an afterlife, with relative importances attached. That's already 1/16 chance that four binary conclusions are right. 1/256 if we count the 'importance' stuff. While there is compelling evidence that life evolved, it's not quite conclusive enough to stop people from believing a god or aliens or some such thing showed up one day and pointed the life-o-matic at some clay, and "bingo" there's animals and people and stuff. Then again, even with a time machine and a video camera to give us absolute proof, you couldn't convince most of these people of anything as prosaic as "***** just happens".
evildave Guest Posts: n/a

29th April 2004, 03:47 PM	#13
Yahweh Ayay ashay ayay Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,029	I am a god, under favorable conditions I am important.
Yahweh Ayay ashay ayay Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,029

29th April 2004, 03:50 PM	#14
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,697	I am a little curious why only three people felt there was a god but five felt a god was important.

29th April 2004, 04:15 PM	#15
rebecca Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,852	Quote: I am a little curious why only three people felt there was a god but five felt a god was important You can be unsure of whether or not something exists and still think it's important to find out about it. For instance, I don't believe in life, but it's pretty much all I've got anyway, so darn it, I clicked "important." Ooh, my first post, and it's almost completely nonsensical! Hello, all.
rebecca Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 6,852

29th April 2004, 04:20 PM	#16
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	Quote: Originally posted by Kopji I am a little curious why only three people felt there was a god but five felt a god was important. I don't think there's a God - but if there is, it's sure important. And personally, I'd sure like there to be one. So it's important. I also didn't click "I'm definately right." So ... maybe I'm wrong about that.
scribble Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 2,696	__________________ "Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson "I was thinking about painting my house, but I was worried about how well the latex paint we bought would bond to the existing siding. So I got on the Interweb and searched for latex bondage."

29th April 2004, 04:24 PM	#18
Yahweh Ayay ashay ayay Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,029	Quote: Originally posted by scribble I also didn't click "I'm definately right." So ... maybe I'm wrong about that. I also did not click "I'm definately right". I think such a belief is rendered meaningless when the atheist believes he is undeniably correct and the Christian holds the same sentiments of his own beliefs. Who knows, maybe they are both wrong...
Yahweh Ayay ashay ayay Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,029

30th April 2004, 01:04 AM	#19
evildave Guest Posts: n/a	Yes, for instance, there could be a 'god', but it doesn't remotely match anyone's expectations for what it is. Would I be right. believing in the Christian 'god's? No. Would I be right. believing in the Islamic 'god'? No. Would I be right. believing in the Hindu 'god's? No. Would I be right. believing in 'god-like aliens'? No. Would I be right, believing in "NO" god? No. "I don't know, and I don't care", it works for me. Not for you? I don't care. Go believe any old thing you like. Whatever makes you happy. Just don't insist that I have to believe what you do.
evildave Guest Posts: n/a

30th April 2004, 07:19 AM	#20
Abdul Alhazred Yes, that one. Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 5,474	Quote: Originally posted by evildave Yes, for instance, there could be a 'god', but it doesn't remotely match anyone's expectations for what it is. Would I be right. believing in the Christian 'god's? No. Would I be right. believing in the Islamic 'god'? No. Would I be right. believing in the Hindu 'god's? No. Would I be right. believing in 'god-like aliens'? No. Would I be right, believing in "NO" god? No. "I don't know, and I don't care", it works for me. Not for you? I don't care. Go believe any old thing you like. Whatever makes you happy. Just don't insist that I have to believe what you do. OK, no chosen people, no one died for my sins, no angel whispered into any prophet's ear. But did a uniquely self-existent being will the universe into existence? I say no, but I admit I have no evidence. Does anyone on the other side have any evidence? Again I say no. And I take the position that the burden of proof is not on my position.
	__________________ The lack of a rational explanation is not evidence for an irrational explanation.

30th April 2004, 07:32 AM	#21
EdipisReks Custom Title Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The 'Nati Posts: 1,952	i voted that life and the origin of the universe are important. life, because there isn't a whole hell of a lot to do without it, and the origin of the universe because i believe that knowledge should be ever expanded. i'm basically a strong atheist, and a member of the EAC, the CEA, and the ECA, but not the CEA.
	__________________ "Candy to rot your teeth. Bible to rot your brain." --EvilDave (7-24-2003) "I read the Book Of Mormon once. Wasn't it about Uma Thurman, um, thrumming a Theremin?" --epepke (9-22-2004)

30th April 2004, 07:32 AM	#22
Swishy McJackass Scholar Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 56	I voted "Life is Important." Without life, I wouldn't be here. I would be, well, non-existant. Like when I die. I also voted "I'm definitely right," but I think that's just a reflex from the many arguements between my wife and I about who's right.

30th April 2004, 07:52 AM	#23
roger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA Posts: 11,021	Since I was one of the people who felt they couldn't check any of the answers, let me explain why. Questions of objective existence don't pose a problem. I've seen no evidence for gods, so harbor no belief in their existence. The question "Do you believe that life is in its self important" impossible for me to answer, or to assign any meaning to. If I interpret it as "do you value your own life" my answer is yes, but that doesn't seem to be the point of the question, since it seems to be weeding out depressives rather than religious thought. Besides, the "in its self" phrase seems to be asking if there is an _objective_ value, importance, that life has. Given that "important" is a fuzzy, human invented idea, not to mention relative, I'd have to go with no. Is my existence important to my family and friends? yes. To my kitchen table? no. To the well being of this world or universe? Again, no.

30th April 2004, 09:50 PM	#24
Jagged Blossom New Blood Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 11	Re: Non-Denominational Denominational Poll I am new here and just really need something to stimulate my brain. I feel stifled in my new town. Hopefully these boards will give me a boost. To answer the questions, my response is "no" to every question. Though it's very difficult for me to admit these things to myself on a consistant basis. I have spent the last year of my life battling my own inclination towards rejecting everything I have known from birth until now. When I feel vulnerable, I immediately revert to thoughts of a god holding my hand, hearing my prayers, and preparing me for some greater challenge ahead. However, the logical side of me knows that gods/religion/afterlife is nothing more than a crutch we all create to help us get through life without being so afraid that we pee our pants everytime something goes wrong. It SUX to admit that our lives are not really important in the scheme of things. It SUX to admit that once we die, it will all be over. It SUX to admit we are all we have. Yet, rationally, I can't refute laws of human behavior that point toward people's need to explain what they can't comprehend...in this case, through complex religious scenarios. I don't know, I am just really struggling to find myself right now. It is more difficult than I ever imagined to try and break free from my former self. I still walk the line between complacent, don't ask any questions Christian and screw them all, how can they be so blind atheiest... I hope to find a comfortable balance soon.
Jagged Blossom New Blood Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 11

1st May 2004, 01:14 AM	#25
evildave Guest Posts: n/a	Toughen up a bit, Jagged Blossom. Sure, you're in a new environment, but confronting Christians directly will only get you a black eye. In general, I don't open a discussion of religion with people I work with, or interact with on a daily business, because I never know who'll become "offended" by any trivial little thing I say. I've pissed off friends who wouldn't talk to me for a year over seemingly tiny things. In general, if you can't discuss dirty/abnormal sex with someone, don't discuss religion. At least on the web, nobody will try to beat your head in with whatever is close at hand for not believing as they sincerely do, that cosmic pink gophers made people 30 hours ago, and you were made with all those memories of a past life, and if you aren't converted within 48 hours, you'll disappear into the gopher 'abyss', along with them for not doing their job of turning you into a psycho like them. I personally think of religion like a disorder, but I try not to confront the afflicted with their malady, as it would be akin to telling a leper how they should look. People either seek a cure for their malady, or you leave them alone. Unless, of course, they seek to "cure" you of your "malady" of not being exactly like them.
evildave Guest Posts: n/a

1st May 2004, 07:21 AM	#26
triadboy Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 2,556	Re: Re: Non-Denominational Denominational Poll Welcome JB. Quote: Originally posted by Jagged Blossom To answer the questions, my response is "no" to every question. Though it's very difficult for me to admit these things to myself on a consistant basis. I also felt a 'no' was appropriate for every question, but (for some reason) thought I had to punch one of them. So I punched "Life is Important" - because life tends to flourish. (According to Dawkins - with a mind of its own) Quote: I have spent the last year of my life battling my own inclination towards rejecting everything I have known from birth until now. When it happens, it won't be a bad thing. When it happened to me, I was thunderstruck! All that crap I had learned from the very beginning just fell away. The guilt, fear, and apprehension left. There is no avenging god watching you. There is no hell awaiting you. YOU control life. Quote: However, the logical side of me knows that gods/religion/afterlife is nothing more than a crutch we all create to help us get through life without being so afraid that we pee our pants everytime something goes wrong. You have a great start. I don't know how old you are, but it took me 35 years to realize that. :-) Quote: It SUX to admit that our lives are not really important in the scheme of things. It SUX to admit that once we die, it will all be over. It SUX to admit we are all we have. Our lives are not important if you examine it in context with the vast universe, however, our lives on earth are important to each of us in individual ways.

1st May 2004, 07:37 AM	#27
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,550	Quote: Originally posted by evildave Toughen up a bit, Jagged Blossom. Sure, you're in a new environment, but confronting Christians directly will only get you a black eye. Nice generalisation there.

1st May 2004, 08:52 AM	#28
evildave Guest Posts: n/a	Thanks. Though a metaphorical 'black eye' can be as good as a bruise. For instance, get that old gossip mill over something as tiny as "he/she isn't like one us" running full time when you're new and relatively friendless, and you could find almost any place is a very bleak place to live.
evildave Guest Posts: n/a

1st May 2004, 09:01 AM	#29
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,550	Quote: Originally posted by evildave Thanks. Though a metaphorical 'black eye' can be as good as a bruise. For instance, get that old gossip mill over something as tiny as "he/she isn't like one us" running full time when you're new and relatively friendless, and you could find almost any place is a very bleak place to live. So? You are still genrelising.

1st May 2004, 09:07 AM	#30
Jagged Blossom New Blood Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 11	Aww, thanks for the welcome ya'll. As far as confronting Christians head on, I never shy away from sharing my beliefs system but I believe that has to be tailored to the individual. For instance, communicating with each one of you in the precise same manner probably wouldn't yield equal results. I believe that communication illustrates, better than any other indicator, the level of respect between humans. I try NEVER to tell anyone else their beliefs are wrong, because I honestly do not feel that way. I know what I believe but I have no need to persuade others to feel similarly. Unless I am dating them, and then, they should follow suit to keep me happy. he he he I guess I just don't want to get in the middle of any drama on the boards. I will do my best to ignore any sort of disruptive attacks on me or anyone else. I am here to have an outlet for expressing things I really can't express in other places. I am here to learn from people who are, no doubt, more highly educated and well read than myself. Most importantly, I am here to get away from stupid people...so if I see them on the boards, I will just do my best to run the other way! Again, thanks a ton for the responses. I look forward to reading what you guys have to say, bouncing ideas off of you, and hopefully getting some feedback that stimulates thought processes that lead to a thousand epiphanies! Have a great Saturday...it's rainy here. yuck!
Jagged Blossom New Blood Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 11	__________________ Please don't bash me, I am new here and trying to learn.

1st May 2004, 09:53 AM	#31
triadboy Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 2,556	Quote: Originally posted by Jagged Blossom I am here to have an outlet for expressing things I really can't express in other places. Same here. My wife is an atheist too, but she doesn't like to talk about the intricacies and evidences that point to that belief. She's not appalled that - in this time of scientific explosion - the year 2004 AD - there are people who would rather believe the science of the year 2004 BC! That boggles my mind! Quote: I am here to learn from people who are, no doubt, more highly educated and well read than myself. All you have to do is read evildave, Yahweh, Atlas to see there are some fine philosophical and educational resident voices here. Quote: Have a great Saturday...it's rainy here. yuck! 80, Sunny, very slight breeze, no humidity here. It's like I live in Paradise. As you enter Tucson, there are two cherubs guarding the road. Which brings up Eden. Of course, Eden does not represent an historical place and time. So what is it? I'm reading Joseph Campbell Thou Art That right now and he says: Quote: God's idea, in this story, was to get Adam and Eve out of that Garden. What was it about the Garden? It was a place of oneness, of unity, of no divisions in the nature of people and things. When you eat the Fruit of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, however, you know about pairs of opposites, which include not only good and evil, light and dark, right and wrong, but male and female, and God and Man as well. I'm a big Campbell fan.

1st May 2004, 10:32 AM	#32
Jagged Blossom New Blood Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 11	Quote: Originally posted by triadboy She's not appalled that - in this time of scientific explosion - the year 2004 AD - there are people who would rather believe the science of the year 2004 BC! That boggles my mind! Which brings up Eden. Of course, Eden does not represent an historical place and time. So what is it? So glad your weather is so pleasant. We need the rain, so I suppose I am ok with a bit of wetness on the ground. As for the evidences pointing toward athiesm, to be quite honest, I don't get overly enthusiastic about it either. Perhaps, that will come in time. For now, I am content realizing that logically there is no explaination for religion other than people's natural tendancy to want to explain the unexplained. If there were similar logical evidence to point me in another direction, I would feel the need to research more heavily. I just don't see it, as of yet. There is still a tinge of guilt that runs through me everytime I acknowledge my rationalized view of life. Let's hope, like ya'll said, that it will disappear in time. As for Eden. Eden, in my opinion, is what an individual creates as the epitome of their desire. I suppose the definition of Eden could shift as someone matures in their life. I would imagine Eden to be transferrable from one religion to the next...similar to Heaven...but more tangible. Who knows though? I certainly am in no position to make an educated statement concerning the definition of Eden. Take care, and enjoy your weekend!
Jagged Blossom New Blood Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 11	__________________ Please don't bash me, I am new here and trying to learn.

1st May 2004, 05:38 PM	#33
evildave Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by geni So? You are still genrelising. Without knowing every detail of this person's situation, all I really can do is generalise. My specific, individual, personal experience says that people who don't know me usually take it very, very badly when my lack of religion comes up. Now then, in a new situation this may be only 50~60% of the people who you might meet. However, once the gossip starts, you're "sacrificing puppies" within the week, and the other 40~50% of the people will want nothing to do with you. Generalising, but the more people who are involved, the more predictably negative the social outcome is. Make good friends BEFORE you let out the fact that you don't believe in their most cherished fairy tales, or you will generally get a larger portion of misery.
evildave Guest Posts: n/a

4th May 2004, 12:52 AM	#34
fishbob Seasonally Disaffected Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chilly Undieville Posts: 5,666	Quote: I also didn't click "I'm definately right." So ... maybe I'm wrong about that. I only checked number 9 - "I'm definitely right". I am absolutely certain that none of the other selections apply.
	__________________ When you believe in things you don't understand, then you suffer . . . " - Stevie Wonder "Stupidity - a callow indifference to facts or data" - Stuart Firestein -neuroscientist. I hate bigots.

4th May 2004, 06:32 PM	#35
Riddick Banned Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 867	What I find shocking is that you guys are happy with this limited life. Can't you guys think bigger than the here and now? Let's say you're a lucky one and live to 105years. I mean Jesus, you were supposed to live forever. But nooooo, you're happy with 105. "Give me 105, I'm Good." That's all I need. Sheesh, you guys are an easy bunch to satisfy. Of course, some of you are happy with 72 years. Mindboggling. I guess if you can't think in terms of an afterlife, it's not that big a deal to you? It's like you have the title to a brand new Ferrari but instead receive an Accord. Oh yeah, I'm happy!

4th May 2004, 06:48 PM	#36
Lord Emsworth Je ne suis pas une de vos élèves Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Through the Cables and the Underground ... Posts: 2,827	I sometimes wish I had a spacecraft, like the "Heart of Gold." I don't understand why you all stick to cars.