Anyone want to make a quick G?

grandmastershek · 4th November 2011, 03:37 PM

Sadly this fool requires you to explain things to him like a child.

chrismohr · 4th November 2011, 04:09 PM

I offered to do it... for $1000 plus expenses

JamesB · 4th November 2011, 10:44 PM

Hmm, well conveniently, I live in Seattle. Could use the money for Christmas presents, and beer.

oody · 5th November 2011, 08:50 AM

I've never seen a truther explain how adding explosives creates a uniquely different scenario that allows for faster-than-freefall whereas natural collapse does not. Are they claiming explosives in the top of the building blew lower parts of the building down, or that the CIA has invented explosives that can suck the building down faster-than G from the bottom? I don't think they've really thought that one through. (I'm shocked)

DGM · 5th November 2011, 10:02 AM

His money is safe. There's no way to explain what happened using only a thirteen year olds understanding. That is what he wants.

Quote:

Nothing fancy required. No calculus, no complicated formulas, just 8th-grade science class Scientific Method with the basic understanding of Newton's Laws of Motion that we started seeing in After School Special cartoons when we were five years old.

Nursedan · 5th November 2011, 10:11 AM

Ya know, maybe these truthers are onto something.

Isn't it wierd that he focuses on one very specific aspect of the collapse of the building? It's almost as if he's saying, "yes I agree with every other fact that refutes the inside job scenario, except for this one". Truthers are so strange to think that the events of 9/11 are completely exlusive of one another. As if proving x+y=z also proves that q+7=hamburgers.

16.5 · 5th November 2011, 11:48 AM

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the claim that there was "2.2 seconds of gravitational free fall of WTC 7 that the National Institute of Standards and Technologies admitted to have occurred" is grossly simplified and therefore his money is pretty safe.

oody · 5th November 2011, 06:33 PM

Ssh, no calculus! Please keep it discrete.

cjnewson88 · 6th November 2011, 02:50 AM

Would love to see the video if anyone actually takes him up on this. Then again, I've read and still have a .pdf copy of the building 7 NIST report.. perhaps if I grab some boxes and start dropping them with an explanation regarding building 7 then that would class as convincing "8th-grade" science and persuade him to give me $1000 :-)

We all know, a guy this into himself, there is no way anyone will change his mind, and sure as hell no way way he will admit to being wrong (and systematically make himself look like a muppet in the public arena). His money is safe through is ignorance and stubbornness.

cjnewson88 · 6th November 2011, 03:11 AM

omg lol from Benshoof himself:

"a fact is a fact, whether my two year old states it, or your mother. If it isn't a fact, then you should refute it with facts"

LMAO so according to this guy a fact remains a fact unless it is proven wrong. So if I was to say flight 93 disappeared into a wormhole and exited into another dimension, this is a fact until somebody can prove to me it isn't. I bet you $1000 you can't prove me wrong!!!

Penemue · 6th November 2011, 04:37 AM

Originally Posted by cjnewson88

omg lol from Benshoof himself:

"a fact is a fact, whether my two year old states it, or your mother. If it isn't a fact, then you should refute it with facts"

LMAO so according to this guy a fact remains a fact unless it is proven wrong. So if I was to say flight 93 disappeared into a wormhole and exited into another dimension, this is a fact until somebody can prove to me it isn't. I bet you $1000 you can't prove me wrong!!!

Yeah-huh!!!
The airplane would not have survived being crushed at the point of singularity, only the Infamous Indestructible Black Box!
Said box is now floating in the other dimension, but it will probably be discovered soon by the Reptiloids and returned to us after their conquest.

cjnewson88 · 6th November 2011, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Penemue

Yeah-huh!!!
The airplane would not have survived being crushed at the point of singularity, only the Infamous Indestructible Black Box!
Said box is now floating in the other dimension, but it will probably be discovered soon by the Reptiloids and returned to us after their conquest.

rofl what a good laugh to wake up to in the morning. I think I'm gonna be in a good mood today :P

Case · 6th November 2011, 10:04 PM

I am scheduled to debate him at the Seattle Weekly offices tomorrow (Monday Nov 7th) at 5:30pm. A video will be made of the event and (presumably) posted somewhere by Seattle Weekly. (If not, I'll cut my own video)

-Case

LSSBB · 6th November 2011, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by Case

I am scheduled to debate him at the Seattle Weekly offices tomorrow (Monday Nov 7th) at 5:30pm. A video will be made of the event and (presumably) posted somewhere by Seattle Weekly. (If not, I'll cut my own video)

-Case

Best wishes!

cjnewson88 · 6th November 2011, 10:30 PM

Case, any heads up on what kind of background you have in this particular field? how much you've studied the wtc collapse etc? would be interesting to know and get an idea of what this guys getting himself into haha.

Good luck dude, looking forward to the video. Oh, and remember, no fancy talk..

"he does not understand. Explain; as you would a child"

Oz1976 · 6th November 2011, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by DGM

His money is safe. There's no way to explain what happened using only a thirteen year olds understanding. That is what he wants.

I can do it:

<queue 13 year old voice>
"Ya see, what happened is this fire stuff got some of the beams INSIDE the buliding REALLY REALLY HOT! And when these beams get hot from fires and stuff, like, they lose some of that int-eg-ri-ty, er their strength ya know? So this beam like gives way and it starts these other beams giving way. Now remember this is INSIDE the building, not the outter stuff we see on like videos and stuff. So once that inside stuff has all fallen down then there's nothing to hold up the walls and the rest of the building comes down REALLY REALLY FAST!"
</13 year old voice>

Orphia Nay · 7th November 2011, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by Case

I am scheduled to debate him at the Seattle Weekly offices tomorrow (Monday Nov 7th) at 5:30pm. A video will be made of the event and (presumably) posted somewhere by Seattle Weekly. (If not, I'll cut my own video)

-Case

Good luck, and welcome to the forum!

grandmastershek · 7th November 2011, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by Case

I am scheduled to debate him at the Seattle Weekly offices tomorrow (Monday Nov 7th) at 5:30pm. A video will be made of the event and (presumably) posted somewhere by Seattle Weekly. (If not, I'll cut my own video)

-Case

Waste of time. The way it reads to me he is sole arbiter of the event and holds the money. He more or less can just say "Nuh uh!" and that's it

cjnewson88 · 7th November 2011, 03:49 PM

any results/video available yet? I'm really looking forward to this haha

djlunacee · 7th November 2011, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by cjnewson88

any results/video available yet? I'm really looking forward to this haha

Me too.

Macgyver1968 · 7th November 2011, 04:20 PM

Apparently, Case is Paul Case, the president of the Seattle Skeptics. I wish him well. However, after reading some of the comments made by his opponent, they're isn't a snowball's chance in hell his opponent would ever concede defeat...even if his ass was handed to him on a silver plater. Something we have all seen on this forum.

My prediction...his opponent will spew the standard AE911 stuff, Mr. Case will debunk it, then his opponent will claim victory.

grandmastershek · 7th November 2011, 06:52 PM

All I am saying is that the debate should have a panel of judges to determine the winner and the money should be held by someone other than what ever the hell his name is. Even in poker the money stays in a neutral location.

cjnewson88 · 7th November 2011, 07:51 PM

Case, the debate is surely over by now, I'm inpatient, I need a video lol :-D

Case · 7th November 2011, 08:20 PM

The debate will be released on Seattle Weekly's video channel within a few days- along with a write-up in SW's blog I imagine. I have my own cellphone video of the debate, but it's predictably poor. If I feel SW's video is edited in such a way that takes my comments out of context, I'll upload it.

Overall, I think it went well. I was a bit nervous at first, I think I flubbed my intro, but otherwise I think I represented NIST's science fairly well.

Salient points I made:

1) Kurt does not understand structural mechanics, therefore he is unqualified to assert the NIST's science is flawed.
2) If NIST was wrong/lied about WTC7, it does not mean CD occurred.
3) FFA does not necessarily mean CD
4) Shiyam Sunder was NOT incorrect when he said that WTC7 did not fall at FFA in the draft report hearing.
5) Free fall acceleration ALSO occurs when the net resistance is overcome by the mass
6) There is no working "controlled demotions" hypothesis
7) If Mr Benshoof further feels that FFA that occurred in WTC7 is CD, he should learn the fundementals of structural mechanics, write a white paper and submit it for review instead of harranging journalists and other scientific laypeople to explain it to him.

I am not naive- I did not expect to get $1,000 from him- this is a stunt by a 9/11 Truth activist who wants to 'say' a question instead of 'asking' one. I did this because I felt if I let the challenge go unanswered it would only feed speculation that NIST's science was indefensible and therefore suspect. I did not expect to change Kurt's mind- but to highlight the numerious weakness in his argument and his lack of education in structural mechancs. I had orginally planned on being very polite and accomodating- indeed that's one of the hallmarks of how I lead Seattle Skeptics, until I get an email from him offering his "condolences" on me accepting task I could never win and that he planned to "expose me for the skeptical fraud that I am". So if at any point you wonder why I'm being a d*bag, understand I've got that email simmering in my mind.

While I have done a fair amount of research on my own, I have you guys (Oystein, Ryan Mackey, Orphia Nay, Chris Mohr, Alien Entity to name a few) at the JREF forum to thank for educating me and sharpening my understanding of the flaws of AE911Truth and David Ray Griffin. If you ever wonder if your efforts have fallen on deaf ears, I assure you many skeptics stand on your shoulders when they engage the 911 Truth Community.

Curtis Cartier will email me when the video is posted- I promise to post the link here when he does so.

-Case

Case · 7th November 2011, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Macgyver1968

Apparently, Case is Paul Case, the president of the Seattle Skeptics. I wish him well. However, after reading some of the comments made by his opponent, they're isn't a snowball's chance in hell his opponent would ever concede defeat...even if his ass was handed to him on a silver plater. Something we have all seen on this forum.

My prediction...his opponent will spew the standard AE911 stuff, Mr. Case will debunk it, then his opponent will claim victory.

You are correct sir!

Despite answering his questions and showing him over and over his was wrong, he still claimed that I did not "logically" explain the 2.2 secs of FFA of WTC7. But honestly in every scenario I'd ran through my head, not a single one included "Holy cow, you're right!" moment from Kurt.

In my email discussions with him, he requested 911 debunker document/links- I sent him a single document Mackey's "2.1 DRG NIST Review", which elegantly destroys the work of David Ray Griffin's "Debunking 911 Debunking" book. If he were an honest questioner of all the facts, he would have actually read it instead of searching for "free fall", highlighting a single sentence he didn't like, and calling the work a fraud. And then his emails were stripped of civility and became hostile/insulting. To me that was the watershed moment that I was dealing with an opponent in an entrenched position who was going to use the debate embarrass as opposed to looking at the very real problems of the CD (non-existent) hypothesis.

(4 more posts until I can post a link in the JREF forums, after that someone has to show me how to post an avatar pic!

-Case

Case · 7th November 2011, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by cjnewson88

Case, any heads up on what kind of background you have in this particular field? how much you've studied the wtc collapse etc? would be interesting to know and get an idea of what this guys getting himself into haha.

Good luck dude, looking forward to the video. Oh, and remember, no fancy talk..

"he does not understand. Explain; as you would a child"

I didn't want to answer this question before the debate, as I didn't want to tip my hand as what I was studying or going to say.

I consider myself an expert (relative term here- 'expert' means vs people who haven't researched it at all) of the collapses of WTC 1&2. Indeed, I've given a presentation called "The Case Against Controlled Demotions- why AE911's "Truth" doesn't add up", so I had to do a fair amount of research to better understand the collapse of WTC7.

The real key understanding the fraud of Gage/Griffin et al was dissecting the "FFA=CD" meme. That's really Frank-Luntz-genius of the whole 911 Truth moment. It's as catchy and as easy to understand to the low-information layperson as "If the gloves don't fit you must acquit".

cjnewson88 · 7th November 2011, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by Case

I didn't want to answer this question before the debate, as I didn't want to tip my hand as what I was studying or going to say.

I consider myself an expert (relative term here- 'expert' means vs people who haven't researched it at all) of the collapses of WTC 1&2. Indeed, I've given a presentation called "The Case Against Controlled Demotions- why AE911's "Truth" doesn't add up", so I had to do a fair amount of research to better understand the collapse of WTC7.

The real key understanding the fraud of Gage/Griffin et al was dissecting the "FFA=CD" meme. That's really Frank-Luntz-genius of the whole 911 Truth moment. It's as catchy and as easy to understand to the low-information layperson as "If the gloves don't fit you must acquit".

Nice, yeah I wondering if you were going into this with a 'there's no way I'm getting that 1000 dollars" attitude lol, as if this guy was just going to fall to the floor in front of you and expose to the world he was wrong all along.. Nice work Paul, looking forward to seeing the video when it comes out.

Horatius · 8th November 2011, 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by Case

... after that someone has to show me how to post an avatar pic!

-Case

Step 1: post 50 posts.

But glad to hear the debate went well.

triforcharity · 8th November 2011, 01:43 PM

Case,

If you want to post a link, just leave the www. part off, and ask someone to do it for you. Most of us here will gladly do it for you.

Cheers!

Orphia Nay · 9th November 2011, 12:51 AM

Benshoof sounds like a nasty piece of work. I think this video will reinforce the negative reputation truthers deserve so well.

Well done for taking on the challenge. I doubt it will make him think, but there will be debunkers and fencesitters watching who will find it interesting.

Originally Posted by Case

While I have done a fair amount of research on my own, I have you guys (Oystein, Ryan Mackey, Orphia Nay, Chris Mohr, Alien Entity to name a few) at the JREF forum to thank for educating me and sharpening my understanding of the flaws of AE911Truth and David Ray Griffin. If you ever wonder if your efforts have fallen on deaf ears, I assure you many skeptics stand on your shoulders when they engage the 911 Truth Community.

Wow, you just made my day, Case, by placing me in such company. Thankyou.

cjnewson88 · 10th November 2011, 03:26 PM

Any news on whether this video has been uploaded yet?

Case · 13th November 2011, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by cjnewson88

Any news on whether this video has been uploaded yet?

Sorry, no updates from Curtis Cartier yet.

Orphia Nay · 13th November 2011, 11:15 PM

Kurt Benshoof has joined the forum.

http://forums.randi.org/member.php?u=54018

cjnewson88 · 13th November 2011, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

Kurt Benshoof has joined the forum.

http://forums.randi.org/member.php?u=54018

lol, after reading his comments below the Seattle Weekly's story it's going to be interesting having him around here..

Gonna be like trying to convince the pope to wear condoms..

Sabretooth · 14th November 2011, 08:32 AM

What's taking so long? It's not like it takes days to upload a video to youtube...

Sword_Of_Truth · 14th November 2011, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by grandmastershek

Sadly this fool requires you to explain things to him like a child.

Not enough money.

As soon as you provide the explanation he asks for, he will refuse to pay, forcing you to sue <snip>. 1,000 dollars in most jurisdictions won't cover court, travel costs and other expenses.

Call us when <snip> bumps it up to 100,000 dollars.

Edited by LashL:

Edited for civility.

grandmastershek · 16th November 2011, 09:25 AM

Any update on the video?

Just a slight peek into the mind that is "Shoof". Apparently WTC 7 was made entirely of columns.

Quote:

What removed over 600 perimeter and core columns simultaneously? Interestingly, NIST's computer model doesn't show free-fall. How did those 600+ columns immediately offer no more structural resistance than thin air?

cjnewson88 · 18th November 2011, 07:04 PM

I found this on youtube, i'll see if i can find one longer than 2 minutes...

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

The Platypus · 18th November 2011, 07:50 PM

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/daily...wn_one_man.php

That's the story behind that video. Looks like Shoof made a fool of himself as predicted, and didn't give up a cent, as predicted... Like nobody could see that one coming.

Case · 22nd November 2011, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by The Platypus

That's the story behind that video. Looks like Shoof made a fool of himself as predicted, and didn't give up a cent, as predicted... Like nobody could see that one coming.

Hmmm- I thought the journalist was going to email us when the video was posted...ah well.

I'm not sure how I did during this as I tend to be hyper-critical of myself, so please feel free to let me know what I could have done better.

Kurt has written to me on a few occasions since this debate, looking to re-engage me on it- but I thought it was best if he brought his WTC7 concerns to the JREF forum and talk it out to his heart's content here. I'm really glad he had the courage of his convictions to actually show up and engage you all. (I did warn him that you folks would have less patience for his shifting the burden of proof and logical fallicies than I did)

Anyhow, would appreciate honest feedback- if I got something wrong, let me know so I can correct it.

Thanks,

-Case

4th November 2011, 03:37 PM	#1
grandmastershek Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Where you look at a thigh, and blacken an eye... Posts: 1,324	Anyone want to make a quick G? Sadly this fool requires you to explain things to him like a child.
	__________________ For as the NWO are higher than the people, so are their ways higher than your ways, and their thoughts than your thoughts. (A amalgam of Isaiah 55:9 & truther logic)

4th November 2011, 04:09 PM	#2
chrismohr Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,350	I offered to do it... for $1000 plus expenses
	__________________ 20 videos rebutting Blueprint for Truth YouTube keyword chrismohr911 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC3JgWkNNIQ Playlists http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...eature=viewall and http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...eature=viewall WTC Dust study http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64959841/911...12webHiRes.pdf Hundreds more links and info both sides: http:www.chrismohr911.com

4th November 2011, 10:44 PM	#3
JamesB Master Poster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,136	Hmm, well conveniently, I live in Seattle. Could use the money for Christmas presents, and beer.
JamesB Master Poster Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2,136	__________________ I said lots of things in NPH that I would not say today and that I did not repeat in NPHR, where I specifically corrected at least some of the errors I had made in that earlier book, written 5 years ago. -David Ray Griffin-

5th November 2011, 10:02 AM	#5
DGM #4 Join Date: May 2007 Location: West of Northshore MA Posts: 14,311	His money is safe. There's no way to explain what happened using only a thirteen year olds understanding. That is what he wants. Quote: Nothing fancy required. No calculus, no complicated formulas, just 8th-grade science class Scientific Method with the basic understanding of Newton's Laws of Motion that we started seeing in After School Special cartoons when we were five years old.
	__________________ Join the team, Show us what your machine can do (or just contribute to a good cause)Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 "Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley

5th November 2011, 10:11 AM	#6
Nursedan Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 492	Ya know, maybe these truthers are onto something. Isn't it wierd that he focuses on one very specific aspect of the collapse of the building? It's almost as if he's saying, "yes I agree with every other fact that refutes the inside job scenario, except for this* one*". Truthers are so strange to think that the events of 9/11 are completely exlusive of one another. As if proving x+y=z also proves that q+7=hamburgers.
Nursedan Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 492	__________________ "I'm a conservative. Now, you may not like that, but I am" - Frank Zappa

5th November 2011, 08:50 AM	#4
oody Muse Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arkansas Posts: 929	I've never seen a truther explain how adding explosives creates a uniquely different scenario that allows for faster-than-freefall whereas natural collapse does not. Are they claiming explosives in the top of the building blew lower parts of the building down, or that the CIA has invented explosives that can suck the building down faster-than G from the bottom? I don't think they've really thought that one through. (I'm shocked)

5th November 2011, 11:48 AM	#7
16.5 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,664	Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the claim that there was "2.2 seconds of gravitational free fall of WTC 7 that the National Institute of Standards and Technologies admitted to have occurred" is grossly simplified and therefore his money is pretty safe.
16.5 Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,664

5th November 2011, 06:33 PM	#8
oody Muse Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arkansas Posts: 929	Ssh, no calculus! Please keep it discrete.
	Last edited by oody; 5th November 2011 at 06:37 PM.

6th November 2011, 02:50 AM	#9
cjnewson88 Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: The van with the big antenna Posts: 1,287	Would love to see the video if anyone actually takes him up on this. Then again, I've read and still have a .pdf copy of the building 7 NIST report.. perhaps if I grab some boxes and start dropping them with an explanation regarding building 7 then that would class as convincing "8th-grade" science and persuade him to give me $1000 :-) We all know, a guy this into himself, there is no way anyone will change his mind, and sure as hell no way way he will admit to being wrong (and systematically make himself look like a muppet in the public arena). His money is safe through is ignorance and stubbornness.
	Last edited by cjnewson88; 6th November 2011 at 02:52 AM.

6th November 2011, 03:11 AM	#10
cjnewson88 Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: The van with the big antenna Posts: 1,287	omg lol from Benshoof himself: "a fact is a fact, whether my two year old states it, or your mother. If it isn't a fact, then you should refute it with facts" LMAO so according to this guy a fact remains a fact unless it is proven wrong. So if I was to say flight 93 disappeared into a wormhole and exited into another dimension, this is a fact until somebody can prove to me it isn't. I bet you $1000 you can't prove me wrong!!!

6th November 2011, 04:37 AM	#11
Penemue Scholar Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 109	Originally Posted by cjnewson88 omg lol from Benshoof himself: "a fact is a fact, whether my two year old states it, or your mother. If it isn't a fact, then you should refute it with facts" LMAO so according to this guy a fact remains a fact unless it is proven wrong. So if I was to say flight 93 disappeared into a wormhole and exited into another dimension, this is a fact until somebody can prove to me it isn't. I bet you $1000 you can't prove me wrong!!! Yeah-huh!!! The airplane would not have survived being crushed at the point of singularity, only the Infamous Indestructible Black Box! Said box is now floating in the other dimension, but it will probably be discovered soon by the Reptiloids and returned to us after their conquest.
Penemue Scholar Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 109

6th November 2011, 11:37 AM	#12
cjnewson88 Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: The van with the big antenna Posts: 1,287	Originally Posted by Penemue Yeah-huh!!! The airplane would not have survived being crushed at the point of singularity, only the Infamous Indestructible Black Box! Said box is now floating in the other dimension, but it will probably be discovered soon by the Reptiloids and returned to us after their conquest. rofl what a good laugh to wake up to in the morning. I think I'm gonna be in a good mood today :P

6th November 2011, 10:04 PM	#13
Case New Blood Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Seattle Posts: 14	I am scheduled to debate him at the Seattle Weekly offices tomorrow (Monday Nov 7th) at 5:30pm. A video will be made of the event and (presumably) posted somewhere by Seattle Weekly. (If not, I'll cut my own video) -Case

6th November 2011, 10:13 PM	#14
LSSBB Devilish Dictionarian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: An elusive house at Bachelor's Grove Cemetery Posts: 4,492	Originally Posted by Case I am scheduled to debate him at the Seattle Weekly offices tomorrow (Monday Nov 7th) at 5:30pm. A video will be made of the event and (presumably) posted somewhere by Seattle Weekly. (If not, I'll cut my own video) -Case Best wishes!
	__________________ "Things that never happened before happen all the time." (Scott Sagan, 1993) "Put down the Wite-Out and step away from the dictionary." (000063, 2012) "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." (John Kenneth Galbraith, 1971)

6th November 2011, 10:30 PM	#15
cjnewson88 Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: The van with the big antenna Posts: 1,287	Case, any heads up on what kind of background you have in this particular field? how much you've studied the wtc collapse etc? would be interesting to know and get an idea of what this guys getting himself into haha. Good luck dude, looking forward to the video. Oh, and remember, no fancy talk.. "he does not understand. Explain; as you would a child"

6th November 2011, 11:39 PM	#16
Oz1976 Muse Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 677	Originally Posted by DGM His money is safe. There's no way to explain what happened using only a thirteen year olds understanding. That is what he wants. I can do it: <queue 13 year old voice> "Ya see, what happened is this fire stuff got some of the beams INSIDE the buliding REALLY REALLY HOT! And when these beams get hot from fires and stuff, like, they lose some of that int-eg-ri-ty, er their strength ya know? So this beam like gives way and it starts these other beams giving way. Now remember this is INSIDE the building, not the outter stuff we see on like videos and stuff. So once that inside stuff has all fallen down then there's nothing to hold up the walls and the rest of the building comes down REALLY REALLY FAST!" </13 year old voice>
Oz1976 Muse Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 677

7th November 2011, 12:40 AM	#17
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 28,352	Originally Posted by Case I am scheduled to debate him at the Seattle Weekly offices tomorrow (Monday Nov 7th) at 5:30pm. A video will be made of the event and (presumably) posted somewhere by Seattle Weekly. (If not, I'll cut my own video) -Case Good luck, and welcome to the forum!
	__________________ Are you an ex-Truther? Please share your story. ~ The Australasian Skeptics Forum.

7th November 2011, 03:16 PM	#18
grandmastershek Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Where you look at a thigh, and blacken an eye... Posts: 1,324	Originally Posted by Case I am scheduled to debate him at the Seattle Weekly offices tomorrow (Monday Nov 7th) at 5:30pm. A video will be made of the event and (presumably) posted somewhere by Seattle Weekly. (If not, I'll cut my own video) -Case Waste of time. The way it reads to me he is sole arbiter of the event and holds the money. He more or less can just say "Nuh uh!" and that's it
	__________________ For as the NWO are higher than the people, so are their ways higher than your ways, and their thoughts than your thoughts. (A amalgam of Isaiah 55:9 & truther logic)

7th November 2011, 03:49 PM	#19
cjnewson88 Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: The van with the big antenna Posts: 1,287	any results/video available yet? I'm really looking forward to this haha

7th November 2011, 03:56 PM	#20
djlunacee Muse Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Kernersville, NC Posts: 552	Originally Posted by cjnewson88 any results/video available yet? I'm really looking forward to this haha Me too.
	__________________ My scars remind me, that my past is real.....

7th November 2011, 04:20 PM	#21
Macgyver1968 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 3,607	Apparently, Case is Paul Case, the president of the Seattle Skeptics. I wish him well. However, after reading some of the comments made by his opponent, they're isn't a snowball's chance in hell his opponent would ever concede defeat...even if his ass was handed to him on a silver plater. Something we have all seen on this forum. My prediction...his opponent will spew the standard AE911 stuff, Mr. Case will debunk it, then his opponent will claim victory.
	__________________ "Fixin' crap that ain't broke."

7th November 2011, 06:52 PM	#22
grandmastershek Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Where you look at a thigh, and blacken an eye... Posts: 1,324	All I am saying is that the debate should have a panel of judges to determine the winner and the money should be held by someone other than what ever the hell his name is. Even in poker the money stays in a neutral location.
	__________________ For as the NWO are higher than the people, so are their ways higher than your ways, and their thoughts than your thoughts. (A amalgam of Isaiah 55:9 & truther logic)

7th November 2011, 07:51 PM	#23
cjnewson88 Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: The van with the big antenna Posts: 1,287	Case, the debate is surely over by now, I'm inpatient, I need a video lol :-D

7th November 2011, 08:20 PM	#24
Case New Blood Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Seattle Posts: 14	The debate will be released on Seattle Weekly's video channel within a few days- along with a write-up in SW's blog I imagine. I have my own cellphone video of the debate, but it's predictably poor. If I feel SW's video is edited in such a way that takes my comments out of context, I'll upload it. Overall, I think it went well. I was a bit nervous at first, I think I flubbed my intro, but otherwise I think I represented NIST's science fairly well. Salient points I made: 1) Kurt does not understand structural mechanics, therefore he is unqualified to assert the NIST's science is flawed. 2) If NIST was wrong/lied about WTC7, it does not mean CD occurred. 3) FFA does not necessarily mean CD 4) Shiyam Sunder was NOT incorrect when he said that WTC7 did not fall at FFA in the draft report hearing. 5) Free fall acceleration ALSO occurs when the net resistance is overcome by the mass 6) There is no working "controlled demotions" hypothesis 7) If Mr Benshoof further feels that FFA that occurred in WTC7 is CD, he should learn the fundementals of structural mechanics, write a white paper and submit it for review instead of harranging journalists and other scientific laypeople to explain it to him. I am not naive- I did not expect to get $1,000 from him- this is a stunt by a 9/11 Truth activist who wants to 'say' a question instead of 'asking' one. I did this because I felt if I let the challenge go unanswered it would only feed speculation that NIST's science was indefensible and therefore suspect. I did not expect to change Kurt's mind- but to highlight the numerious weakness in his argument and his lack of education in structural mechancs. I had orginally planned on being very polite and accomodating- indeed that's one of the hallmarks of how I lead Seattle Skeptics, until I get an email from him offering his "condolences" on me accepting task I could never win and that he planned to "expose me for the skeptical fraud that I am". So if at any point you wonder why I'm being a d*bag, understand I've got that email simmering in my mind. While I have done a fair amount of research on my own, I have you guys (Oystein, Ryan Mackey, Orphia Nay, Chris Mohr, Alien Entity to name a few) at the JREF forum to thank for educating me and sharpening my understanding of the flaws of AE911Truth and David Ray Griffin. If you ever wonder if your efforts have fallen on deaf ears, I assure you many skeptics stand on your shoulders when they engage the 911 Truth Community. Curtis Cartier will email me when the video is posted- I promise to post the link here when he does so. -Case
	Last edited by Case; 7th November 2011 at 08:22 PM.

7th November 2011, 08:48 PM	#25
Case New Blood Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Seattle Posts: 14	Originally Posted by Macgyver1968 Apparently, Case is Paul Case, the president of the Seattle Skeptics. I wish him well. However, after reading some of the comments made by his opponent, they're isn't a snowball's chance in hell his opponent would ever concede defeat...even if his ass was handed to him on a silver plater. Something we have all seen on this forum. My prediction...his opponent will spew the standard AE911 stuff, Mr. Case will debunk it, then his opponent will claim victory. You are correct sir! Despite answering his questions and showing him over and over his was wrong, he still claimed that I did not "logically" explain the 2.2 secs of FFA of WTC7. But honestly in every scenario I'd ran through my head, not a single one included "Holy cow, you're right!" moment from Kurt. In my email discussions with him, he requested 911 debunker document/links- I sent him a single document Mackey's "2.1 DRG NIST Review", which elegantly destroys the work of David Ray Griffin's "Debunking 911 Debunking" book. If he were an honest questioner of all the facts, he would have actually read it instead of searching for "free fall", highlighting a single sentence he didn't like, and calling the work a fraud. And then his emails were stripped of civility and became hostile/insulting. To me that was the watershed moment that I was dealing with an opponent in an entrenched position who was going to use the debate embarrass as opposed to looking at the very real problems of the CD (non-existent) hypothesis. (4 more posts until I can post a link in the JREF forums, after that someone has to show me how to post an avatar pic! -Case
	Last edited by Case; 7th November 2011 at 10:17 PM. Reason: typos/grammar

7th November 2011, 08:59 PM	#26
Case New Blood Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Seattle Posts: 14	Originally Posted by cjnewson88 Case, any heads up on what kind of background you have in this particular field? how much you've studied the wtc collapse etc? would be interesting to know and get an idea of what this guys getting himself into haha. Good luck dude, looking forward to the video. Oh, and remember, no fancy talk.. "he does not understand. Explain; as you would a child" I didn't want to answer this question before the debate, as I didn't want to tip my hand as what I was studying or going to say. I consider myself an expert (relative term here- 'expert' means vs people who haven't researched it at all) of the collapses of WTC 1&2. Indeed, I've given a presentation called "The Case Against Controlled Demotions- why AE911's "Truth" doesn't add up", so I had to do a fair amount of research to better understand the collapse of WTC7. The real key understanding the fraud of Gage/Griffin et al was dissecting the "FFA=CD" meme. That's really Frank-Luntz-genius of the whole 911 Truth moment. It's as catchy and as easy to understand to the low-information layperson as "If the gloves don't fit you must acquit".

7th November 2011, 10:02 PM	#27
cjnewson88 Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: The van with the big antenna Posts: 1,287	Originally Posted by Case I didn't want to answer this question before the debate, as I didn't want to tip my hand as what I was studying or going to say. I consider myself an expert (relative term here- 'expert' means vs people who haven't researched it at all) of the collapses of WTC 1&2. Indeed, I've given a presentation called "The Case Against Controlled Demotions- why AE911's "Truth" doesn't add up", so I had to do a fair amount of research to better understand the collapse of WTC7. The real key understanding the fraud of Gage/Griffin et al was dissecting the "FFA=CD" meme. That's really Frank-Luntz-genius of the whole 911 Truth moment. It's as catchy and as easy to understand to the low-information layperson as "If the gloves don't fit you must acquit". Nice, yeah I wondering if you were going into this with a 'there's no way I'm getting that 1000 dollars" attitude lol, as if this guy was just going to fall to the floor in front of you and expose to the world he was wrong all along.. Nice work Paul, looking forward to seeing the video when it comes out.

8th November 2011, 04:47 AM	#28
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada Posts: 21,885	Originally Posted by Case ... after that someone has to show me how to post an avatar pic! -Case Step 1: post 50 posts. But glad to hear the debate went well.
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

8th November 2011, 01:43 PM	#29
triforcharity Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: The South! Posts: 12,119	Case, If you want to post a link, just leave the www. part off, and ask someone to do it for you. Most of us here will gladly do it for you. Cheers!
	__________________ "The horse has been led to the water, the horse is in fact standing up to its knees in the water, but the horse is telling you in a loud voice that there's no water to be had....he's still so very thirsty!" ~alienentity

9th November 2011, 12:51 AM	#30
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 28,352	Benshoof sounds like a nasty piece of work. I think this video will reinforce the negative reputation truthers deserve so well. Well done for taking on the challenge. I doubt it will make him think, but there will be debunkers and fencesitters watching who will find it interesting. Originally Posted by Case While I have done a fair amount of research on my own, I have you guys (Oystein, Ryan Mackey, Orphia Nay, Chris Mohr, Alien Entity to name a few) at the JREF forum to thank for educating me and sharpening my understanding of the flaws of AE911Truth and David Ray Griffin. If you ever wonder if your efforts have fallen on deaf ears, I assure you many skeptics stand on your shoulders when they engage the 911 Truth Community. Wow, you just made my day, Case, by placing me in such company. Thankyou.
	__________________ Are you an ex-Truther? Please share your story. ~ The Australasian Skeptics Forum.

10th November 2011, 03:26 PM	#31
cjnewson88 Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: The van with the big antenna Posts: 1,287	Any news on whether this video has been uploaded yet?

13th November 2011, 11:08 PM	#32
Case New Blood Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Seattle Posts: 14	Originally Posted by cjnewson88 Any news on whether this video has been uploaded yet? Sorry, no updates from Curtis Cartier yet.

13th November 2011, 11:15 PM	#33
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 28,352	Kurt Benshoof has joined the forum. http://forums.randi.org/member.php?u=54018
	__________________ Are you an ex-Truther? Please share your story. ~ The Australasian Skeptics Forum.

13th November 2011, 11:45 PM	#34
cjnewson88 Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: The van with the big antenna Posts: 1,287	Originally Posted by Orphia Nay Kurt Benshoof has joined the forum. http://forums.randi.org/member.php?u=54018 lol, after reading his comments below the Seattle Weekly's story it's going to be interesting having him around here.. Gonna be like trying to convince the pope to wear condoms..
	__________________ Common sense has clearly been snuck up on from behind beaten several times on the head and left to bleed. Over 140 pieces of evidence showing American 77 hit the Pentagon http://therightbloggerbastard.blogspot.co.nz/ http://www.youtube.com/user/cjnewson88

14th November 2011, 08:32 AM	#35
Sabretooth No Ordinary Rabbit Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Wyoming, NY Posts: 6,149	What's taking so long? It's not like it takes days to upload a video to youtube...
	__________________ -------------------------------------- Stop asking me about that stupid fruity cereal...that's the OTHER rabbit!