Palestinian Freedom Riders

bit_pattern · 16th November 2011, 05:21 PM

I'm a big fan of non-violent resistance for the Palestinian's. Israel will have a much harder time treating them like dogs when they are not fighting back and it will be Israel alone inhabiting the moral vacuum.

Quote:

SIX Palestinian ''freedom riders'' have been arrested for attempting to enter Jerusalem on buses designated for Israelis.

The group was hoping to bring attention to Israeli restrictions on Palestinians' freedom of movement in the occupied West Bank by invoking the spirit of American civil rights activists who rode buses in the southern US in the 1960s to protest against racial discrimination.

''We are like them, exactly like them,'' said Huwaida Arraf, who holds dual American and Palestinian citizenship and was one of the organisers of the protest. ''They saw segregation and racism, and they fought it through non-violent actions. We want to show how unfair the Israeli system is, the system we are forced to live under.''

An Israeli border guard checks the ID of an activist riding a bus. Photo: AFP
Israel operates two bus lines in the West Bank. Only Israelis, however, are allowed to use the bus system. Palestinians have developed their own makeshift public transportation system comprised of mini-vans and small buses.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/world/pales...#ixzz1dvBDyEkq

Eddie Dane · 17th November 2011, 06:41 AM

OK, interesting.

Better than the ships bringing food aid to a region not needing food aid, I guess.
That really looked a bit contrived.

I think non violent actions like this might work a lot better than suicide bombs and other acts of terrorism.

Zax63 · 17th November 2011, 07:43 AM

I like non-violent resistance myself but I count 40 suicide bombings on buses or bus stations in this Wikipedia article: List of Palestinian suicide attacks. I don't think Palestinians can just ignore those and say "We are being discriminated against".

IDB87 · 17th November 2011, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by Zax63

I like non-violent resistance myself but I count 40 suicide bombings on buses or bus stations in this Wikipedia article: List of Palestinian suicide attacks. I don't think Palestinians can just ignore those and say "We are being discriminated against".

Exactly right.

The two situations are not exactly analogous.

bit_pattern · 17th November 2011, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Zax63

I like non-violent resistance myself but I count 40 suicide bombings on buses or bus stations in this Wikipedia article: List of Palestinian suicide attacks. I don't think Palestinians can just ignore those and say "We are being discriminated against".

Except that the apartheid travel restrictions in the colonised West Bank existed long before the intifada began.

rwguinn · 17th November 2011, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by bit_pattern

Except that the apartheid travel restrictions in the colonised West Bank existed long before the intifada began.

The had buses in the age of Mohammed?

Stylesjl · 17th November 2011, 07:36 PM

This is the sort of resistance the Palestinians should use more of if they want to further their cause. But as pointed out earlier, the bomb attacks do make this a very different situation from the civil rights freedom riders in other countries.

IDB87 · 18th November 2011, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by bit_pattern

Except that the apartheid travel restrictions in the colonised West Bank existed long before the intifada began.

Why do you think that is relevant or even important?

bikerdruid · 18th November 2011, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by IDB87

Why do you think that is relevant or even important?

trick question.....right?

IDB87 · 18th November 2011, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by bikerdruid

trick question.....right?

Well, the idea that 'apartheid travel restrictions' in the West Bank, assuming he means on a large scale, existed before the intifada began is false.

B'Tselem says widespread travel restrictions began in the early 90s. If you or Bit have a better source, please present it.

But what happened in the late 80s early 90s that could have led to these travel restrictions? Couldn't be the first Intifada, could it?

I wonder if these Palestinian Freedom Riders will also be protesting Hamas controlled transportation?

Quote:

In August 2011, the Hamas government in the Gaza Strip imposed new travel restrictions on Palestinians active in non-governmental organizations by requiring them to provide details of the trip to the ministry in what the Palestinian NGO Network regards as another Hamas attempt to control and hamper them. The Palestinian Center for Human Rights condemned the new laws. Tharut al Bic, head of the interior ministry’s NGO department, stated that “the new instructions are intended to make it easier for travellers to better organize their trip and to preserve order”. Hamas requires sick people wishing to leave the Gaza Strip to submit applications and meet various conditions, in addition to restrictions Israel imposes on Palestinians leaving Gaza.[195]

Sauce

MaGZ · 18th November 2011, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by bit_pattern

I'm a big fan of non-violent resistance for the Palestinian's. Israel will have a much harder time treating them like dogs when they are not fighting back and it will be Israel alone inhabiting the moral vacuum.

Senator Joe Lieberman was a Freedom Rider back in the 60s in the South. Somehow I just can’t see him this time defending Palestinian rights.

theprestige · 18th November 2011, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

Senator Joe Lieberman was a Freedom Rider back in the 60s in the South. Somehow I just can’t see him this time defending Palestinian rights.

Kinda tells you something about how mendacious and cynical your alleged "freedom ride" is, when even real life freedom riders won't support it.

lionking · 18th November 2011, 10:24 PM

A good start. Now let's see how serious they are. Stop lobbing missiles into Israel.

16th November 2011, 05:21 PM	#1
bit_pattern Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,349	Palestinian Freedom Riders I'm a big fan of non-violent resistance for the Palestinian's. Israel will have a much harder time treating them like dogs when they are not fighting back and it will be Israel alone inhabiting the moral vacuum. Quote: SIX Palestinian ''freedom riders'' have been arrested for attempting to enter Jerusalem on buses designated for Israelis. The group was hoping to bring attention to Israeli restrictions on Palestinians' freedom of movement in the occupied West Bank by invoking the spirit of American civil rights activists who rode buses in the southern US in the 1960s to protest against racial discrimination. ''We are like them, exactly like them,'' said Huwaida Arraf, who holds dual American and Palestinian citizenship and was one of the organisers of the protest. ''They saw segregation and racism, and they fought it through non-violent actions. We want to show how unfair the Israeli system is, the system we are forced to live under.'' An Israeli border guard checks the ID of an activist riding a bus. Photo: AFP Israel operates two bus lines in the West Bank. Only Israelis, however, are allowed to use the bus system. Palestinians have developed their own makeshift public transportation system comprised of mini-vans and small buses. Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/world/pales...#ixzz1dvBDyEkq
bit_pattern Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,349	__________________ "You are the epitome of the 'pigeon playing chess'. No matter how good I am at chess, you are just going to knock the pieces over, **** on the board and strut around like you've won something" "In this political climate, all of science is vulnerable to ideological attack when reality disagrees with political beliefs."

17th November 2011, 07:58 AM	#4
IDB87 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: In the Grass Posts: 3,416	Originally Posted by Zax63 I like non-violent resistance myself but I count 40 suicide bombings on buses or bus stations in this Wikipedia article: List of Palestinian suicide attacks. I don't think Palestinians can just ignore those and say "We are being discriminated against". Exactly right. The two situations are not exactly analogous.
	__________________ It's guaranteed I'm overreacting.

17th November 2011, 04:32 PM	#5
bit_pattern Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,349	Originally Posted by Zax63 I like non-violent resistance myself but I count 40 suicide bombings on buses or bus stations in this Wikipedia article: List of Palestinian suicide attacks. I don't think Palestinians can just ignore those and say "We are being discriminated against". Except that the apartheid travel restrictions in the colonised West Bank existed long before the intifada began.
bit_pattern Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 4,349	__________________ "You are the epitome of the 'pigeon playing chess'. No matter how good I am at chess, you are just going to knock the pieces over, **** on the board and strut around like you've won something" "In this political climate, all of science is vulnerable to ideological attack when reality disagrees with political beliefs." Last edited by bit_pattern; 17th November 2011 at 04:35 PM.

17th November 2011, 06:51 PM	#6
rwguinn Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: 16 miles from 7 lakes Posts: 8,450	Originally Posted by bit_pattern Except that the apartheid travel restrictions in the colonised West Bank existed long before the intifada began. The had buses in the age of Mohammed?
	__________________ "Political correctness is a doctrine,...,which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." "I pointed out that his argument was wrong in every particular, but he rightfully took me to task for attacking only the weak points." Myriad http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=6853275#post6853275

18th November 2011, 07:50 AM	#8
IDB87 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: In the Grass Posts: 3,416	Originally Posted by bit_pattern Except that the apartheid travel restrictions in the colonised West Bank existed long before the intifada began. Why do you think that is relevant or even important?
	__________________ It's guaranteed I'm overreacting.

17th November 2011, 06:41 AM	#2
Eddie Dane Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,424	OK, interesting. Better than the ships bringing food aid to a region not needing food aid, I guess. That really looked a bit contrived. I think non violent actions like this might work a lot better than suicide bombs and other acts of terrorism.

17th November 2011, 07:43 AM	#3
Zax63 Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,667	I like non-violent resistance myself but I count 40 suicide bombings on buses or bus stations in this Wikipedia article: List of Palestinian suicide attacks. I don't think Palestinians can just ignore those and say "We are being discriminated against".

17th November 2011, 07:36 PM	#7
Stylesjl Thinker Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 183	This is the sort of resistance the Palestinians should use more of if they want to further their cause. But as pointed out earlier, the bomb attacks do make this a very different situation from the civil rights freedom riders in other countries.

18th November 2011, 08:54 AM	#9
bikerdruid hermit hippy weirdo Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: green island autonomous zone Posts: 7,369	Originally Posted by IDB87 Why do you think that is relevant or even important? trick question.....right?
	__________________ Subvert the Dominant Paradigm!!

18th November 2011, 10:28 AM	#10
IDB87 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: In the Grass Posts: 3,416	Originally Posted by bikerdruid trick question.....right? Well, the idea that 'apartheid travel restrictions' in the West Bank, assuming he means on a large scale, existed before the intifada began is false. B'Tselem says widespread travel restrictions began in the early 90s. If you or Bit have a better source, please present it. But what happened in the late 80s early 90s that could have led to these travel restrictions? Couldn't be the first Intifada, could it? I wonder if these Palestinian Freedom Riders will also be protesting Hamas controlled transportation? Quote: In August 2011, the Hamas government in the Gaza Strip imposed new travel restrictions on Palestinians active in non-governmental organizations by requiring them to provide details of the trip to the ministry in what the Palestinian NGO Network regards as another Hamas attempt to control and hamper them. The Palestinian Center for Human Rights condemned the new laws. Tharut al Bic, head of the interior ministry’s NGO department, stated that “the new instructions are intended to make it easier for travellers to better organize their trip and to preserve order”. Hamas requires sick people wishing to leave the Gaza Strip to submit applications and meet various conditions, in addition to restrictions Israel imposes on Palestinians leaving Gaza.[195] Sauce
	__________________ It's guaranteed I'm overreacting. Last edited by IDB87; 18th November 2011 at 10:30 AM.

18th November 2011, 02:00 PM	#11
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319	Originally Posted by bit_pattern I'm a big fan of non-violent resistance for the Palestinian's. Israel will have a much harder time treating them like dogs when they are not fighting back and it will be Israel alone inhabiting the moral vacuum. Senator Joe Lieberman was a Freedom Rider back in the 60s in the South. Somehow I just can’t see him this time defending Palestinian rights.
MaGZ Suspended Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 6,319

18th November 2011, 10:18 PM	#12
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,625	Originally Posted by MaGZ Senator Joe Lieberman was a Freedom Rider back in the 60s in the South. Somehow I just can’t see him this time defending Palestinian rights. Kinda tells you something about how mendacious and cynical your alleged "freedom ride" is, when even real life freedom riders won't support it.
theprestige Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,625

18th November 2011, 10:24 PM	#13
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,668	A good start. Now let's see how serious they are. Stop lobbing missiles into Israel.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill