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Old 17th November 2011, 03:40 AM   #1
Sati1984
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Russian out-of-place artifacts - nanotechnology?

I read about these spiral-shaped tungsten artifacts in a book that is entirely about out of place artifacts, and decided to look these up. I only found this in English while googling for a few minutes - which is exactly the same text the book had.

Here is a snippet:

Quote:
since 1991, more and more mostly spiral-shaped objects have been found, on the banks of the rivers Narada, Kozim, and Balbanyu in the eastern Ural mountains. They are composed principally of tungsten, molybdenum, and copper
(...)

Quote:
Particular attention should be paid to the final conclusion reached by the Moscow institute. Report No. 18/485 states that the age of the deposits and the results of the tests give a very low probability to the assumption that the origin of these unusual, thread-shaped tungsten crystals is of a technogenic cosmic nature, due to the rocket take-off route from the Plesetsk space-station over the polar part of the Ural region.

In plain language: these objects cannot have originated from earlier test rockets or similar fired from Plesetsk. The key word of the report comes finally to the point: The data obtained allow the possibility of an extra-terrestrial technogenic origin.
I really enjoy reading about out of place artifacts, but even I wouldn't jump to that conclusion this quickly.

So... anyone has another source about these and/or an explanation?
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Old 17th November 2011, 04:12 AM   #2
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Look very much like light bulb filaments or time-delay fuse elements.
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Old 17th November 2011, 05:04 AM   #3
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Out of place artifacts are usually hoaxes. Some peerson put these hings there as a joke or to promote woo woo or whatever.
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Old 17th November 2011, 05:16 AM   #4
Sati1984
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Out of place artifacts are usually hoaxes. Some peerson put these hings there as a joke or to promote woo woo or whatever.
What about the conclusion of the Moscow Institute? They could not detect the hoax?
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Old 17th November 2011, 05:28 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Out of place artifacts are usually hoaxes. Some peerson put these hings there as a joke or to promote woo woo or whatever.
Take pretty much *any* story coming from Russia as an Hoax as a basis, and you'll pretty much be right most of the time .

"no Dorothy, there is no such a things as a 5 miles deep holes in Russia where you can hear the voice of the damned".
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Old 17th November 2011, 05:31 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Sati1984 View Post
What about the conclusion of the Moscow Institute? They could not detect the hoax?
Are you even *sure* that :
1) the Moscow institute do exists
2) it is a valid place to make such a test
3) a test was really done there
4) the conclusion from it are really as described in the book ?

Because frankly, all those point could be lied at any level by the book author just to sell.
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Old 17th November 2011, 05:36 AM   #7
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Industrial waste and other pollution is nothing new in that part of the world.
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Old 17th November 2011, 05:47 AM   #8
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Nether is a lack of journalistic integrity.
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Old 17th November 2011, 05:55 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Aepervius View Post
Because frankly, all those point could be lied at any level by the book author just to sell.
The biggest red flag is the website of the author being typical new age HTML with starry background.

But giving the benefit of doubt to the dubious web design abilities, let's look at some of the important names mentioned in the story.


Dr. Valerii Ouvarov (St. Petersburg)
http://www.ufocongressstore.com/Vale...ion_p_420.html
So a UFOlogist then... Mmmm... that's a credible source.

Then there's; Dr E. W. Matveyeva, who has no apparent internet presence except for in connection to this exact same story.

OK, what about the grand sounding institute; the ZNIGRI. again apart from in direct relation to this story, no such organisation exists.

So a new age type who writes inaccurate books making unsupportable claims, has another unverifiable story he's writing a book about to sell to the credulous.
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Old 17th November 2011, 05:57 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
The biggest red flag is the website of the author being typical new age HTML with starry background.

But giving the benefit of doubt to the dubious web design abilities, let's look at some of the important names mentioned in the story.


Dr. Valerii Ouvarov (St. Petersburg)
http://www.ufocongressstore.com/Vale...ion_p_420.html
So a UFOlogist then... Mmmm... that's a credible source.

Then there's; Dr E. W. Matveyeva, who has no apparent internet presence except for in connection to this exact same story.

OK, what about the grand sounding institute; the ZNIGRI. again apart from in direct relation to this story, no such organisation exists.

So a new age type who writes inaccurate books making unsupportable claims, has another unverifiable story he's writing a book about to sell to the credulous.
Maybe we should ask ufology what he is thinking of that book.

Ah hem.
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Old 17th November 2011, 06:01 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
The biggest red flag is the website of the author being typical new age HTML with starry background.

But giving the benefit of doubt to the dubious web design abilities, let's look at some of the important names mentioned in the story.


Dr. Valerii Ouvarov (St. Petersburg)
http://www.ufocongressstore.com/Vale...ion_p_420.html
So a UFOlogist then... Mmmm... that's a credible source.

Then there's; Dr E. W. Matveyeva, who has no apparent internet presence except for in connection to this exact same story.

OK, what about the grand sounding institute; the ZNIGRI. again apart from in direct relation to this story, no such organisation exists.
It may do. But this does not support the rest of the guff.

Description from a directory on a geology website (the only one I could find:
Unitary Federal State Enterprise the Scientific Research Institute for Geology and Prospecting for Precious and Non-Ferrous Metals

The official Scientific Research Institute for Geology and Prospecting for Precious and Non-Ferrous Metals (TsNIGRI) Website (rus).

TsNIGRI founded in 1935 as a head institute for scientific, methodical, and geological providing with the creation, use and development of mineral raw materials base (MSB) of precious metals and and diamond reserves.

ETA : One of the "spirals" resembles a cut section of a round-wound guitar string (nickel?), to my eyes.
ETA ETA : And tungsten.
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Old 17th November 2011, 06:05 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
It may do.
I stand corrected. Great work.
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Old 17th November 2011, 06:33 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Stray Cat View Post
I stand corrected. Great work.
I was googling as you posted, I think.

Even if the actual reports do exist, our primary source is still a translation of a report conducted on behalf of a biased researcher.

I found the same problem with a much vaunted German paper "documenting" the "success" of a "dowser" purporting to have been the key decision maker on the location of water wells in an Indian (the country) drilling campaign.

Even without the original German, it was pretty easy to demolish the argument, but would have been a LOT easier if I had a direct translation of the original and not a 3rd hand and obviously biased rewrite - one rewrite being done by the dowser himself...
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Old 17th November 2011, 06:51 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
I was googling as you posted, I think.

Even if the actual reports do exist, our primary source is still a translation of a report conducted on behalf of a biased researcher.

I found the same problem with a much vaunted German paper "documenting" the "success" of a "dowser" purporting to have been the key decision maker on the location of water wells in an Indian (the country) drilling campaign.

Even without the original German, it was pretty easy to demolish the argument, but would have been a LOT easier if I had a direct translation of the original and not a 3rd hand and obviously biased rewrite - one rewrite being done by the dowser himself...
Yes language translation can be a great method to try and distort facts.
But even reports selective quoting and taking information in the same language completely out of context can have the same results. Take crop circle research, UFOlogy, Torsion Waves, Tesla CT etc. They have all been open to citing legitimate scientific research in a misrepresentative manner in order to try and give credence to their own agendas.

But in this case, completely, it looks like a report in Russian has been translated into German and then translated from that into English snippets. Hardly reliable.
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Old 17th November 2011, 09:33 AM   #15
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Lamp and fuse filaments:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tu...logen_lamp.JPG

http://www.cooperindustries.com/cont..._MDL_1_220.jpg
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2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
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Old 20th November 2011, 12:02 AM   #16
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To the extent that the powder metallurgy used to make tungsten lamp filaments is nanotechnology, then yes. To the extent that nanotechnology means something mysterious, therefore alien, no.
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Old 20th November 2011, 06:13 AM   #17
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this again, the Urals are a mineral rich mountain range running the length of Russia
tungsten molybdenum and copper are found there in large quantities along with gold.
for this reason the area has a large industry to exploit the resources

the way these claims are worded make it seem that its in a wilderness, you never hear about the lightbulb factory 1/2 a mile away do you

how fortunate that the aliens left these artifacts in a region where anyone with common sense wouldn't bat an eyelid

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Old 22nd November 2011, 07:23 AM   #18
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I think the "cauldrons" in the Valley of Death in Siberia is a far more interesting story. I can't find too much online about them, all the articles I find seem to be the same narrative over and over.
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Old 22nd November 2011, 06:06 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by SphereGuy View Post
I think the "cauldrons" in the Valley of Death in Siberia is a far more interesting story. I can't find too much online about them, all the articles I find seem to be the same narrative over and over.
thats typical pseudoscience as theres only one source, in this case its via Valerij Uvarov, he's a Russian ufologist.
Here's a book of his I found online
http://www.scribd.com/doc/25663648/P...-Valery-Uvarov
he waits til page 4 before claiming Zechariah Sitchin as a source
thats just after he describes
Quote:
On one of the southern islands of Atlantis stood a gigantic pyramid topped by a quartzpyramidion.
on page three, it goes downhill rapidly from there

he based his claims entirely on an article by another ufologist A Gutenev, who in turn claims as his source a book called "Drevnaya Yakutia" (ancient yakutia) by N.D.Arkhipov

now this source however doesn't mention giant bronze cauldrons, just the usual archaeological sites with small bronze artifacts, but the author was on an expedition that found the first siberian bronze forges and the remains of circular huts, it was a significant find as up til then bronze had been presumed to be a trade item.

so two ufologists basically invented them from half truths, which explains why there are no existing photographs supporting their story

that'll teach you to watch "Ancient Aliens"

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