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Old 18th November 2011, 11:25 PM   #1
edge
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The plans of God

God's power is such that whatever He has decided to do, that is what will be done. God tells us that He has designed a plan that will be implemented because no one (not man nor angel) has the power to thwart or withstand His purpose.

If God truly is all powerful, and if He has a definite plan for mankind, then nothing happens outside the scope of that plan. Logically this means that He is the author of everything that happens, both good and bad. Numerous Scriptures confirm this to be the case:

Quote:

ISAIAH 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (RWB)

LAMENTATIONS 3:38 Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and evil come? (NIV)

ECCLESIASTES 7:13 Consider what God has done: Who can straighten what He has made crooked? 14 When times are good, be happy; but when times are bad, consider: God has made the one as well as the other. Therefore, a man cannot discover anything about his future. (NIV)

DEUTERONOMY 32:39 "See now that I, I am He, and there is no God besides Me; it is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded and it is I who heal, and there is no one who can deliver from My hand." (NASU)
As it says: “ in our image” and the fact that all will be saved.
This ought to be interesting.
One of my points of references:
http://www.herealittletherealittle.n...e_name=Mystery
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Old 18th November 2011, 11:45 PM   #2
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Even if it was undeniably proven that there was a critter out there that we could call "God" I would not let -- whatever his plans for me might be -- have any effect whatsoever upon my own actions. I have my own agenda. Call me willful and selfish if you like but might still does not make right and I prefer to do my own thinking, regardless of the powers that be.

That said, There is no God (although there is a doG... several, actually).

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Old 19th November 2011, 12:04 AM   #3
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Has god's plan been given the thumbs up by L Ron Hubbard?
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Old 19th November 2011, 12:15 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
God's power is such that whatever He has decided to do, that is what will be done. God tells us that He has designed a plan that will be implemented because no one (not man nor angel) has the power to thwart or withstand His purpose.

If God truly is all powerful, and if He has a definite plan for mankind, then nothing happens outside the scope of that plan. Logically this means that He is the author of everything that happens, both good and bad.

Well, there you go then. I might as well keep living exactly the way I am living since God has already decided that "that's the way it is". Not much anybody can do about it if it's all pre-ordained.

Norm

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Old 19th November 2011, 12:38 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
God's power is such that whatever He has decided to do ...
You can stop right there, edge. If god has to decide something, then there has to be alternatives to chose from. But since, according to you, god set up the whole shebang in the first place, then there are no alternatives - no choices - to be made.
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Old 19th November 2011, 12:43 AM   #6
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If it's all decided, then there's obviously no such thing as free will, plus it ruins watching sports.
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Old 19th November 2011, 01:00 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by gabeygoat View Post
If it's all decided, then there's obviously no such thing as free will, plus it ruins watching sports.
What ruins watching sports for me are the idiots who think an almighty god would be concerned with them kicking a ball about or running fast rather than real suffering somewhere else in the world.
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Old 19th November 2011, 01:11 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
God's power is such that whatever He has decided to do, that is what will be done. God tells us that He has designed a plan that will be implemented because no one (not man nor angel) has the power to thwart or withstand His purpose.

If God truly is all powerful, and if He has a definite plan for mankind, then nothing happens outside the scope of that plan. Logically this means that He is the author of everything that happens, both good and bad. Numerous Scriptures confirm this to be the case:



As it says: “ in our image” and the fact that all will be saved.
This ought to be interesting.
One of my points of references:
http://www.herealittletherealittle.n...e_name=Mystery
I like George Carlin's take on this particular bit of fluff. (a tiny fragment of a much longer, and very much worth the effort of reading transcript from here.)

Originally Posted by George Carlin
I've often thought people treat God rather rudely, don't you? Asking trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It's not nice. And it's no way to treat a friend.

But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know, your sister needs an operation on her crotch, your brother was arrested for defecating in a mall. But most of all, you'd really like to **** that hot little redhead down at the convenience store. You know, the one with the eyepatch and the clubfoot? Can you pray for that? I think you'd have to. And I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan?

Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn't in God's Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a Divine Plan. What's the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and **** up Your Plan?

And here's something else, another problem you might have: Suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? "Well, it's God's will." "Thy Will Be Done." Fine, but if it's God's will, and He's going to do what He wants to anyway, why the **** bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn't you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It's all very confusing.
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Old 19th November 2011, 01:18 AM   #9
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So are you preaching on behalf of a god who promotes evil? This is not what I was taught in Sunday school!

It seems that the Lord's Prayer is now inaccurate. If Edge's god promotes evil bad things, why should "deliver us from evil" be included in the script. Perhaps we should rename it Edge's Prayer, and change that bit to "and deliver us evil".
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Old 19th November 2011, 01:19 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
If God truly is all powerful, and if He has a definite plan for mankind, then nothing happens outside the scope of that plan. Logically this means that He is the author of everything that happens, both good and bad. Numerous Scriptures confirm this to be the case:
But God gave man Free WillTM, therefore He does not know for sure what Man will do! Perhaps He does have a definite plan - but things can happen which are not part of it.
"And the LORD God commanded the man, You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil"
God can ask us to follow His commands, but He cannot enforce them. We can thwart His plans!
"Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden.

But the LORD God called to the man, Where are you?

And he said, Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree from which I commanded you not to eat?"
God doesn't always know what we will do. How can it be that 'nothing happens outside the scope of' His plan, if He doesn't know what we will do?
"And the LORD God said, The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live for ever.

So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken."
Because we have Free WillTM and can do what we please, God must change His plans!
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Old 19th November 2011, 01:34 AM   #11
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Omnipotent God paradox unresolvable

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
But God gave man Free WillTM, therefore He does not know for sure what Man will do! Perhaps He does have a definite plan - but things can happen which are not part of it.
This touches on the basic paradox of omnipotence. Sometimes your hear "If God can do anything, can he make a rock so heavy that he can't lift it?" Silly, but just as silly an paradoxical is the Christian claim that their omnipotent God can make Man so autonomous that God cannot predict what Man will do. I don't know how a thinking person can believe this nonsense.
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Old 19th November 2011, 01:49 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
God's power is such that whatever He has decided to do, that is what will be done. God tells us that He has designed a plan that will be implemented because no one (not man nor angel) has the power to thwart or withstand His purpose.

If God truly is all powerful, and if He has a definite plan for mankind, then nothing happens outside the scope of that plan.

If this is true, why did Abraham scold him for being unjust in Genesis 18? How did Moses talk him out of his plans in Exodus 32?

Sounds like your god does things on a whim, much like any person.
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Old 19th November 2011, 01:52 AM   #13
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Know god, no peace.
No god, know peace.
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Old 19th November 2011, 02:00 AM   #14
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So there is no freewill? Or do humans have freewill just because? Why does God punish Adam and Eve for doing something he knew they would do?
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Old 19th November 2011, 02:02 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
God's power is such that whatever He has decided to do, that is what will be done.
How do you know?

Quote:
God tells us that He has designed a plan
How do you know?

Quote:
If God truly is all powerful, and if He has a definite plan for mankind, then nothing happens outside the scope of that plan.
And if not?

Quote:
Logically this means that He is the author of everything that happens, both good and bad
It's one branch of your if and if then statement. Where are the others?


Quote:
Numerous Scriptures confirm this to be the case:
No. Confirm means something other than what you think.



Granted, there might be a god and it might have a plan — but there is no evidence of this and thus no reason to believe it.
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Old 19th November 2011, 04:26 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
God's power is such that whatever He has decided to do, that is what will be done. God tells us that He has designed a plan that will be implemented because no one (not man nor angel) has the power to thwart or withstand His purpose.

If God truly is all powerful, and if He has a definite plan for mankind, then nothing happens outside the scope of that plan. Logically this means that He is the author of everything that happens, both good and bad. Numerous Scriptures confirm this to be the case:



As it says: “ in our image” and the fact that all will be saved.
This ought to be interesting.
One of my points of references:
http://www.herealittletherealittle.n...e_name=Mystery


So what you are saying Edge, is that we are all EXTRAS in a DIVINE COMEDY?

Are we just acting out a SCRIPT?

Is YHWH the Spielberg of the Gods? Is he the director or the producer or just the writer of a Heavenly Reality Show?

Are we just fodder for a Celestial FARCE?
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Old 19th November 2011, 04:48 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
If God truly is all powerful, and if He has a definite plan for mankind, then nothing happens outside the scope of that plan.
If me auntie had balls, etc.

What if your god's plan is part of another god's plan, and that god's plan is . . . etc.?

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Old 19th November 2011, 05:18 AM   #18
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I find it an odd form of behavior that God only reveals these deep truths to people like Edge and Epix, but doesn't say a word to the rest of us.

And then condemns us (according to His mouthpieces) because we don't believe He exists.

Truly He becomes annoyed in mysterious ways. Seems that whatever annoys His mouthpieces, annoys Him. It's as if He is the puppet of His mouthpieces.

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Old 19th November 2011, 07:34 AM   #19
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So why did god's plan involve flooding the whole world? Is that like an eraser? Why does god's plan involve the mass starvation of children?
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Old 19th November 2011, 07:45 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
God's power is such that whatever He has decided to do, that is what will be done. God tells us that He has designed a plan that will be implemented because no one (not man nor angel) has the power to thwart or withstand His purpose.
If he's as powerful as you say, you should be able to provide some evidence that he's done some...um, powerful stuff. What exactly has he done, edge?


And no cheating; you have to show solid proof that your particular god was directly involved. You can't point to a forest and say, "well, for instance, my god knocked down that tree right there." because I could just as easily claim that my imaginary friend Susie did it.

If that's too difficult, then maybe you could just tell him what plan he has for me, and I'll see if I'm able to thwart it.
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Old 19th November 2011, 07:56 AM   #21
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God has to be the most bored entity in the universe. To have always exist and to know beforehand exactly whats going to happen would bore me to death. Why worship this thing? In fact if all situations were created by Mr. god thingie then we are just puppets on a string with no free will. If god comes in shares you can definitely have mine. God made me say that edge.
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Old 19th November 2011, 08:20 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
I find it an odd form of behavior that God only reveals these deep truths to people like Edge and Epix, but doesn't say a word to the rest of us.

And then condemns us (according to His mouthpieces) because we don't believe He exists.

Truly He becomes annoyed in mysterious ways. Seems that whatever annoys His mouthpieces, annoys Him. It's as if He is the puppet of His mouthpieces.
"Surely Mohammed, your Allah seems to hasten to do your will"

Loose paraphrase of a Quran verse.

Joe Smiths' god often mentioned him by name and gave him special privileges.

You'd almost think these guys were making it up to please themselves.

In fact, when you think about it god agrees with all believers even when their beliefs are contradictory.

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Old 19th November 2011, 08:39 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
If God truly is all powerful, and if He has a definite plan for mankind, then nothing happens outside the scope of that plan.
On the other hand, if God is simply a construct of human imagination, then there is no plan.

Quote:
Logically this means that He is the author of everything that happens, both good and bad. Numerous Scriptures confirm this to be the case:
How do they confirm this to be the case? They merely confirm that there were people who believed this to be the case. They offer no more proof of the truth of their claims than do the writings of L. Ron Hubbard.
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Old 19th November 2011, 08:50 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by gabeygoat View Post
If it's all decided, then there's obviously no such thing as free will, plus it ruins watching sports.
And praying to God for our team to win.
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Old 19th November 2011, 09:27 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
Well, there you go then. I might as well keep living exactly the way I am living since God has already decided that "that's the way it is". Not much anybody can do about it if it's all pre-ordained.

Norm
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Old 19th November 2011, 09:50 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Sunstealer View Post
So why did god's plan involve flooding the whole world? Is that like an eraser? Why does god's plan involve the mass starvation of children?
According to the edges of the world children starving is mans fault even though everythings predestined.
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Old 19th November 2011, 10:00 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
If God truly is all powerful, and if He has a definite plan for mankind, then nothing happens outside the scope of that plan.
Which suggests that if god has supposedly given you special knowledge as you claimed previously, than god plays favorites and this favoritism is part of his plan.

Kind of petty, don't you think?
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Old 19th November 2011, 10:01 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
What ruins watching sports for me are the idiots who think an almighty god would be concerned with them kicking a ball about or running fast rather than real suffering somewhere else in the world.

He might as well take an interest in sport. I certainly see no evidence that an omnipotent God is concerned at the suffering in the world.
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Old 19th November 2011, 10:07 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by joobz View Post
Which suggests that if god has supposedly given you special knowledge as you claimed previously, than god plays favorites and this favoritism is part of his plan.

Kind of petty, don't you think?
That would make Edge a creator's pet.
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Old 19th November 2011, 10:42 AM   #30
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God?
Never heard of that. Can I get one on Youtube? Or amazon?
I would like to have an apparatus to guide my decisions.
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Old 19th November 2011, 10:44 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
God's power is such that whatever He has decided to do, that is what will be done. God tells us that He has designed a plan that will be implemented because no one (not man nor angel) has the power to thwart or withstand His purpose.
I guess we can consider ourselves lucky that God's plan consists of letting everything progress as if there was no God at all...
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Old 19th November 2011, 10:50 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by dlorde View Post
I guess we can consider ourselves lucky that God's plan consists of letting everything progress as if there was no God at all...
.
Kinda like the CTwinkie twoofer with his LIHOP.
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Old 19th November 2011, 11:41 AM   #33
Leumas
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
God's power is such that whatever He has decided to do, that is what will be done. God tells us that He has designed a plan that will be implemented because no one (not man nor angel) has the power to thwart or withstand His purpose.

If God truly is all powerful, and if He has a definite plan for mankind, then nothing happens outside the scope of that plan. Logically this means that He is the author of everything that happens, both good and bad. Numerous Scriptures confirm this to be the case:



As it says: “ in our image” and the fact that all will be saved.
This ought to be interesting.
One of my points of references:
http://www.herealittletherealittle.n...e_name=Mystery

Edge,

If the Devil were to plan a fate for human kind while also trying to confuse and deceive us....in what way would it differ from the one we have now?
If the Devil were to write books that would DECEIVE humans and cause CHAOS and STRIFE....in what way would they differ from the ones we have now?

Can I deduce from your post that you do NOT believe there is a Devil. Any EVIL there is in the world is actually GOD himself doing it?

He has full control over what occurs and what happens and thus any evil is either part of his plan or is his doing?
Right? God is the Devil…right?
Or as Epix might put it
God is 1 and 2 and the Devil is 2 so he is also 1 and all three make 4 and when you add Jesus and the holy spook we have 9 and there is nothing between them except 6.
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Old 19th November 2011, 12:36 PM   #34
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Utter garbage..

There are no gods, so there are no "plans of god".

Quit talking about vapid nonsense.
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Old 19th November 2011, 12:40 PM   #35
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This thread and all of it's responses are part of God's plan.
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Old 19th November 2011, 12:42 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by gabeygoat View Post
This thread and all of it's responses are part of God's plan.

Such a god would suck.

Fortunately, there is no evidence for such a monster.
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Old 19th November 2011, 12:43 PM   #37
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The Plans of Santa: this year, I'm getting that pony, damn it!

The Plans of the Tooth Fairy: The elimination of HFCS to insure a better quality of baby tooth.

The Plans of the Easter Bunny: Brightly rainbow-colored chickens will evolve to lay colored eggs. Have you any idea how difficult it is to get magenta dye out of white fur?
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Old 19th November 2011, 12:45 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by gabeygoat View Post
This thread and all of it's responses are part of God's plan.
Your post was part of the plan of the intergalactic space fart.
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Old 19th November 2011, 01:33 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by joobz View Post
Your post was part of the plan of the intergalactic space fart.
That's a good thing. I wouldn't like it if it had more ... er ... substance.
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Old 19th November 2011, 01:43 PM   #40
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God doesn't have plans, it goes against his whole chaotic evil nature.
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